There are other options possible if you could find someone to follow him, who could see if he stops anywhere with the child/children, but it just seems to me the easiest thing would be to report it to CPS or the police. At that point it becomes their problem to investigate, and see if they think there is enough to warrant follow-up.

The initial phone call would be difficult, but you could dump it anonymously in someone else's lap and wait to see what happened. They are bound by law to investigate, and if your H is innocent, he will be cleared.

This must be so hard for you, and you are very brave to be willing to even consider this awful possibility.

PS - You have made mistakes, and so has everyone else, but NOT EVERYTHING IS YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

enough and let's for a moment stop talking about the Bible here and deal with the facts that have arisen and the fact that NOWHERE in your post do you talk about your marital relationship as a WIFE with your H.

1)have you stopped having sex?
2)has over the years, the man exhibited peculiar behaviors such as this?
3)any abuse in his family?

his actions are MORE than way out there to me. he is possibly involved in something that is considered in this country a crime.

it's wacked out. nobody leaves their own family to go and play "pretend family" with somebody else...

and what with the people at his martial arts school? he says those can be his family?

I am wondering...have you really spoken w/your kids? has the man done something at home that you could be unaware of?

if it walks like a duck...quacks like a duck...it's probably a duck.

and yes...many people who are Christians, including ministers, have affairs and commit horrid crimes such as child abuse.

my xh is supposedly a Christian...yet over the last four years this supposed christian had two torrid affairs, moved one woman in immediately after our separation and got her pregnant and married her three days after our d was final. he partied like there was no tomorrow and did some drugs also...this guy, my xh, never did any of those things prior to his "fall from grace".

but it happens.

and what do you do? easy. first you take care of your kids...your kids. second you assess the marriage. when did your H "check out" of the marriage?

you give situations here, but very little about YOUR MARRIAGE...so we can't help there.

but if this man could be an abuser...he needs to get away from the kids now...cps needs to be called.

and he doesn't need to be around your kids either.

Manipulated, you asked a few posts back if reporting this would "end" your marriage. Sweetie, I want to suggest to you , ever-so-gently, you don't have a marriage to lose. You may not have a divorce right now, either, but you certainly don't have a husband-wife relationship--not with a man who is doing the things he is doing, whether or not actual criminal activity is involved. He has already left you physically, emotionally, mentally. He could still leave you legally, but he wouldn't be any farther away from you then, in any meaningful sense, than he already is now.

The other thought that occurred to my daughters and me, and which we discussed together, Neak has already briefly alluded to in her post--and that is his efforts to make you feel responsible for his estrangement with you. You don't understand his calling from God. You're too spiritually blind to see the importance of what God is asking him to do for these neglgected children. You're too selfish to share him with others in the way God has called him to do. It's a classic fog technique for a person who is doing somethng wrong to try and throw other people off-stride, and if possible, even make them blame themselves for the whole problem. In your husband's case, he's added his theoretical knowledge of the Bible (NOT played out in any genuine, practical way in his life, let me add) to make you question your spirituality as well. Very, very clever technique. Give him credit. He's got you confused about about east/west, up/down, right/wrong, as if YOU were the guilty party.

Whether or not it turns out that your husband is committing criminal offenses, if the people on this board can help you get your mental and emotional equilibrium back again, so you can look at what's happening to you and say, "I don't deserve to be treated like this. Enough is enough!", I think it will be a blessing for you that you came to this site and asked for advice.

t&l

Just wanted to say that nothing disrespectful, demeaning, or patronizing was meant by that "Sweetie" that I called you. When Neak, Neakbro, Flard, and Neaksis were little, it turned out that whenever I called them "Sweetie" I either had a job for them, or was going to tell them something they didn't want to hear. They recognized my habit before I was ever aware of it, and it soon became a family joke. "NeakSweetie!" "What is it you want me to do, Mom?"

In your case, we're not only talking about a job to do, but an unpleasant one, besides. Force of habit, I guess. Sorry.

t&l

T&L

I just wantd to say...

your "assessment" is something I totally agree with.... stinks like a skunk...

M100x's,

I think your husband is being thoroughly decieved. His relationships to the children at his job are very inappropriate, if anything. God does not divide families to do His work.

Have you talked with your pastor concerning these things.
I think you need to get more people involved in investigating your H, possibly the elders could help, and help where to lead you in all this. Something is not right with him. I am concerned about the children,
not saying he is hurting them, I just don't know. But if your H was in his right mind he wouldn't be doing those things.


And who does that woman think she is telling you to email your H. She doesn't want you contacting your own H for some reason.???? Have you contacted her H??? I would call him and tell him what she said..that they don't have contact, and he is only there to pay the bills. And would he let his children go alone in a truck with a man he doesn't know?

This situation is close to my heart because way back when my DD was around 11yrs old, a childrens teacher from church used to take my DD and her friend at times swimming, and after they would go to pizza. I was a single mother back then and tired and thought this guy loved children and meant well to help. Well, one particular time, I had a bad feeling when she was out with him, and I questioned her when she got home what they did. She said they went swimming and then to pizza, at pizza he talked about sex and boys. I was very upset and shocked. I called my pastor the next day, and told him this guy has no right talking to my child about such things, that is my place at the right time and age. Pastor agreed and talked to the teacher. I never let my children go with that man again, and no one else for that matter. It makes me very leary.
The childrens ministry was huge at that time, but after that it had dwindled down to only a few children. That teacher left that church just over a year ago. I have always had bad vibes since then about him. He still continues to pick up little girls and take them places, little girls and boys that come from poor families, and has has had them spend the night at his home. These little children go nowhere, so they jump on the chance to get away. So sad.

But anyways, I think your H at least needs to be investigated. In his profession he should never be alone with a child of another family without another adult present for accountability reasons. So this does look very suspicious to me.

Blessings,
Lady

As the mother of a molested child - molested by her own cousin - I know I was blind to things other people might have seen. But, I was so close to both these people that I couldn't see.

I regret my inability to see more and to take action.

The hospital to which my daughter first reported her abuse was bound by law to report it. I called to inquire about the report and they could not give me information. They took my report and, within days, investigations were under way. Literally, within a couple of weeks.

If you think something is wierd, it probably is.

It's hard to report a family member....it was hard to report my nephew. It was hard to pump my sister, her husband, my niece, my mom, my nephew to learn what I needed to know. I will be the first to say that.

But, I knew I had to for my daughter.

I will go to my grave regretting that the abuse happened, regretting that I didn't see it sooner.

But, I will go to my grave glad I did what I was supposed to do....that I helped my daughter.....that she got the help she needed.

Don't let someone else's child possibly suffer.

If you think there is something going on, you need to report it. A bad case of the willies is not evidence but it is something to which you should pay attention. Unfortunately, I didn't.

In my state, a person who has evidence of abuse or neglect and does not report it can be considered criminally liable.

just peachy:
My children are grown (19 & 23)men. One in the Navy the other still at home. They are aware of the problems but because I was depressed, angry etc...for a while my younger son sometimes says that I ran his dad off. Other times he say that yes "Dad is obsessed with helping people especially this one family". But he says that I am jealous.
My son did say that the "mother" is ridiculous and just wants to be a victim and uses the crutch no one likes her children because they are bi-racial. She says she can't keep a job because she is an educated black woman. I felt like saying "Let me take you around and see how many educated black women are working."
We are separated but trying to reconcile on a beginning level. He comes by to have dinner, sometimes staying on the weekend and going to the new church we are trying to attend. He seems uneasy but I know he is hurt. I pretty much told him how I felt it looked going off with the kids ,
especially taking one girl off to shoot pool etc....He feels I have demeaned him or started problems,rumors...but really his behavior did all that.
Sometimes things are okay, but I think those are days when I decide to put it out of my mind. If he were to come to tell me he was going off with the mother and kids I would just be fuming. The husband is "friends" with my husband. He is super passive and really doesn't care much or spend any "Dad" time with his kids. He would rather let my husband do that. Ridiculous! They are both sorry parents to me. The mother says to much to the children (7 yr boy,
10 yrs girl 13 yrs girl) about that if someone is mean to them it is because of their skin color. She has older children too. The 16 yr daughter has a live in boyfriend.

I have to run an errand. I will post again a little later.

ladysheep,
Yes I have talked with our "old"pastor at our "old"church.
I also counseled with his wife. They were supportive but like most people don't have an answer. My H was asked to step down from his position of sunday school teacher. Also my H doesn't know I spoke with the pastor or his wife. He would absolutely disown me (I know he already has right).
I just am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. I had a pastor (one from years back that new my husband prior to his "change")tell me that he may be so pure in heart about his intentions that he is nieve about what could happen. I can see how that would be true maybe, but he even said he told God that people would not like his behavior if he did what he asked him to do(let people get closer to him)and he said God said do it anyway.

I went to a seminar today at my old church. "Restoring a broken heart". It was great! It talked about codependency
denial,anger, depression, bargaining and acceptance. All the stages of recovery of a broken heart or broken relationship of some kind. Several things finally clicked in my head. I see things a little different. I am defintely codependent. I am really trying to work on that.

I guess I am hoping God can turn this around and make things all better. I know I have seen him do that before in other homes. What not mine? Just not ready to throw in the towel yet....not today anyway...maybe tomorrow..who knows..

cinderella,
I know I need to investigate further his activity after class..I will look in to how to do that...
The martial arts school is a part time thing, although it takes up A LOT OF TIME!!!!!!!He has a regular fulltime job
that supports our family well. I worry he will quit that to do the martial arts fulltime..He has mentioned that before. I feel he is going to make a change real soon. He will be vested at work in a few months. I fell he might do something then. He wants to add gymnastics to our school.
By the way, he called his instructors/blackbelts in and told them we were separated. I thought that was odd.It really hurt me.They are my friends too. I have been heavily involved in the school for 10 years. Five years we have owned it. The first five my boys were involved taking lessons. I really regret ever buying the school. But I guess it was going on at the church too. It seems like he started searching for God to tell him what to do with his life. Christian Mid-life crisis I guess. This went on for about 6 yrs slowly building to this mess...
I take responsbility for my reactions. At first, I thought there was something wrong with me. My looks, etc....Why else would your husband spend more time with other people.
I got depressed,then angry..really angry. When he finally
told me that one little girl wanted to spend the night at our house, but he couldn't let her because I would not allow it, I said thats it. I told him to get out and get his head straight. He kept saying he couldn't think around me. That I got between him and God. I thought it would be short term, one/two months maybe. It is now into three almost four months. He seems to like it. I was afraid of that.He has a personality that if you say go, he goes. He doesn't ask to come back. I was wrong I guess.

I can't be responsible for his actions. Other parents are aware of this too. Some have made comments..I think that I keep him balanced in their eyes. They probably say "well he may look odd, but gee hes married, surely his wife would do something if things weren't right".

Most people think I don't go to the school because I had breast cancer last year. They think I am still sick. Not true. I bounced back, thank the Lord and so far I am doing well. My H wasn't there for me at all. Never fixed a meal for me. We were still leaving together then. That is a major hurt that is really hard to let go.

I appreciate the advise and support

I'm wondering if this might be a kind of mid-life crisis. I know it could be something else, but kind of reminds me of my WH right before he had his affair.

I'm sure he was going through a mid-life crisis. He started getting real crazy about my step-kids' mom's little boy. He went way out of his way to protect that child, although not from his mom who was the real threat. Mom is a drug addict, and gave up 2 kids to my husband, 1 was taken by court and given to his father, 2 girls were sexually abused.

That left her with 1 little boy who was a year old at the time. My WH just went a little coo-coo with this little guy. He had to be included with everything - even taken to parties we went to where children were not invited. It was the strangest thing.

If Manipulated were to take your advice to heart--reporting her husband for his questionable behavior, and requesting an investigation of him--I think it would, at the very least, be fair for her to ask you, "Why haven't you reported this man yourself?", when you know what happened to your own daughter.

t&l

One more thing...about someone following him. I was more thinking that it might be instructive to see what happens in those blank hours between the time class is over, and the time the kids get home. He SAYS he takes them to eat. Does he really? Do they go to a motel? To his apartment? To some secluded area to park? It's not necessary to see everything that goes on in the truck, in order to make an assessment. If 2 heads are visible in the rear window while the truck is driving, and one disappears when the truck is parked, certain inferences can be made, even in the absence of visual confirmation.

Every religious shyster I've ever heard of, used the Bible and his own alleged spirituality as a cloak for his misdeeds. Your husband, if this is what he is also doing, is certainly not the first. Unfortunately, he wouldn't be the last, either. Yes, he would be ballistically angry if you reported him. But if he's involved inappropriately with children (even if it hasn't progressed to physical contact yet), you can't build a relationship with him anyway, however hard you may try. Who can you talk to that you trust completely not to betray you?

I'm sorry about your sons' attitude towards you. I'm sure it doesn't help. But they're young; there's still lots they don't understand, even though they don't know it yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. And love for a father is hard to uproot out of a boy's heart.

t&l

What about a voice activated recorder in the truck until you could line up someone to follow him?

I wondered about that, but if he doesn't live with her, but only comes over to visit, I think it'd be hard to sneak off and plant something without him wondering where on earth she'd gone. If she got caught, and had to come up with an explanation, how awkward would THAT be?

t&l

Well another weekend as come and gone and another arguement too. Same material over and over that we don't see eye to eye on. The weekend started out pretty good, as long as we don't talk about "the subject" we are okay. We got up and started getting ready to go to the "new"church we have been attending some and somehow got on the subject of the TKD (Tae Kwon DO Martial Arts)school. Things escalated pretty quick, but I am much better about staying in control of my anger now. Can't say the same for him. Bottom line is that he wants to let this 20 yr old girl take over the school and he possibly start a new one. Granted she seems to be a good person, I know a little about her family etc...however this is ridiculous. She already took over my job in the office of the school with the money;receipting; ordering etc....By the way she is homeschooled and hasn't graduated yet. Her mother wants to keep getting child support. It was written that she receive it till the girl has graduated school. My son at 19 gets told all the time "When I was 18 no one was paying my bills I was in the army". Guess what he said that one too many times. My son joined the army last May. Joined the same jump school,ranger school etc.(to prove a point I am sure). However, he had a medical problem and came home on a medical discharge. Why doesn't he tell her to join the army...(my other son is in the navy)


By the way he commented that the profits are way down. No gear etc. has been sold in months. DUH!! I haven't been involved in months. When I was there, parents would stop me coming and going asking questions about gear, books, uniforms etc...Our sales were good. I promoted special sales and gave people deals or payment plans. They would line up at the office door when I came in the room. Sometimes they would just hand me a check as I walked by.I had a great repore with the families. I don't guess this is happening now. He doesn't care. He said if he gets down to 10 students, those must be the ones God wanted him to reach. He had around 80 students when I quit going up there. He now has about 45. He gives me no credit at all.

I guess I voice my opinion to much. I don't know. He seems to think that. But the behavior at the school was driving me crazy. When we first bought the school he brought his blackbelts/instructors in and told them the rules. NO sexual harassment; improper touching or crude jokes. Be careful how you handle students especially women. etc. etc. etc. Now, its a different story. I couldn't stand the way kids,Mainly girls, crawled all over him. They sat in his lap,rode on his shoulders etc..He would buy a candy bar and break off pieces and feed it to them. I couldn't stand it. When he does situps, he lets them hold his feet. Then he holds theirs. I guess I am just crazy and jealous. Maybe that is okay and I am wrong.

The parents of some of the children drop them off early knowing he will "take care of them". When he arrives in his truck, they immediately open the truck and jump in looking for candy etc...


He doesn't display any other behavior, like with women per say. He is very compassionate about problems when they tell him. Always lending a kind ear.

Back to the arguement: He still feels there is nothing wrong with his behavior. He said that there isn't really anything wrong with him going to Busch Gardens with that woman and her kids. He tries to compare it to other times we have gone off. Once my back went out and we had been invited to go with a family to Busch Gardens. I told him to go anyway and take our boys. But the fact is that both adults were there of the other family. Also, we have known this family for years and they were not estranged like this family he was to go with. He said if the adults are all okay with it whats the problem. I told him he needs to cut contact with the parents. He can help the children during "class hours". The mother isn't even working. She needs to get off her lazy butt and pick them up instead of him taking them home. She hasn't worked in 8 months and is receiving financial aid. The dad is a security officer supposedly working long hours. So what! We have all done the same thing at some point in our lives. I am sick of excuses. They need to "man up" as they say and do the right thing. They need to be the responsible parents of these kids. My H is an enabler. I told him he is dividing two homes. The mother said to me that "if your H leaves my childrens lives they will die". She also said that her H is sorry and not a good dad. Sounds like to me that my H makes her H look bad. He is coming between them. Not to mention keeping them from doing the right thing.

My H says that I am willing to sacrifice the children in all this. It is not their fault. SORRY!! DON"T SEE IT THAT
WAY!. What about my family....

You will love this: My H said "again" that the reason for all this is that God said Feed My Sheep. Feed the ones that I send you. I said "Yes you have said that now for a few years, and what about your own son(that at the time this started was in his teen years needing a dad desperately).

And I Quote from my H "He is not a sheep that God sent me"

I lost all the air in my lungs and just stared at him ready to just cry. He said "Just forget it, you don't even know what I mean". I assume he means my son might not have listened to him. Thats a big thing with my H. He thinks if people listen then they are the sheep and are responding.
I say "You don't stop trying just because they aren't listening". That was HIS flesh and blood biological born son. What is he thinking?????You don't stop trying...

He just turned and walked out of the house, got in his truck and left to go back to his apartment.
I am sad..but so mad too. How dare he say that. I wouldn't dare tell my son..it would only hurt him.

Manipulated,
I can see your pain and I am so sorry.
I keep being pulled into your thread. I can not help it at this point. I see many injustices happening and most of us, including myself, are focusing on the children he is with.

WE all make choices in life. Some good, some bad.
You have a choice as does he. You can choose to keep working on a marriage or stop working on it and walk.

You also have the same type of choice with reporting his behavior with the kids. You can choose to get involved with maybe helping one of Gods sheep or just keep your eyes closed and look the other way.

I do not like to judge people, but I cant help getting not only angry with him, but you too. Your weird feelings, the church, and other people keeping him away from thier kids is way to "DAM@" many coinsidences for me. How can everyone just turn thier cheek on these innocent children. Just because the parents have thier heads up thier behinds, doesnt make it right. IF he is innocent, then I will gladly appologize for pushing you. Can you not call anonomously? Have someone else call for you? Hire a PI?

I would hope that a christian woman and mother would want to protect all of Gods children. Yours, thiers, and mine.
I would hope that someone would step up and protect my children and I am sure that you would too.

I see how much pain you are in, I really do. He is alienating himself, blaming you, and everyone else. He is in a FOG of some sort. I just cant see God doing that to anyone.
Go back and read your posts. It is chilling to me. Sorry.
JE

just empty:
Sorry I am making you angry. I have anger too. But you don't have the conversations at length with my H. You don't have 24 years of marriage either.

If I thought there was actually something going on with the children I would take the next step. I believe he is blinded and like you said in a fog. I think he could easily be accused of something he didn't do.

Seems like I am going to be responsible for all of this one way or another.

No I dont have the 24 years of marriage and I dont have conversations with him. I would love to converse with him though....
I DO have 27 years of a life with major pains from what a "good, helpful, loving" man did to me. His wife knew something was wrong with him, but didnt suspect THAT! Those were the words she spoke to me in apology after calling me a liar and tramp at the age of 9 when I exposed him for what he was. He did all of the same behaviors that your husband did with girls in our area. My father died when I was 3. My mom had 4 children and was virtually homeless when he decided that there was a calling by GOD to help the poor little lambs. He molded my mother first. Helping with electricity, groceries, etc. Then began with my older sisters and eventually me. He acted like a father in the beginning. Protective, loving, kind, gentle. What child of 7 doesnt love something like that when you have had no father in your life. He preyed on little girls. Set it all up each and everyone of us. And his wife knew but chose to do nothing. Now there are 13 of us that I know of grown women who live with this everyday, and 1 girl, my best friend who is dead because of him. She committed suicide when she was 16 because of the flashbacks of him.
I only hope that you are right and I am wrong for all people involved.

Personally, I still think this is a mid-life crisis type thing. Your husband sounds so much like mine. Mine was way out there.