Married 24 yrs with 2 sons 19 & 23. My H seems to have replaced his family with others. He said anyone that will hear the word of God is his family. He is obsessed with one family in particular. The parents are dysfunctional, not taking care of the children,feeding thoughts to the children that society (there friends etc...)does not like them because they are bi-racial. They have exteme complexes and can't hardly function at school. The 10 yr olds girl supposedly has tried to commit suicide. The 16 yr sister has a live-in boyfriend.

My husband was asked to step down from his sunday school class as a teacher after 15 yrs. The church was uncomfortable with his behavior. He now resents the church and says that his martial arts school can be his new family and church. He takes these children (the one family in particular)back and forth. He feeds them dinner every night after class ( 2 nights a week). He also goes to their birthday parties and visits with the parents. I think this is a little over the top. He eats happy meals for lunch each day and saves the toys for the kids. The children want to spend the night at our house. We do not have children that age. I think it is inappropriate. My H says it is okay. He wants them to come one at the time, so they can feel special and valued.

Wow, I can't believe he is so blinded. My son said"Dad if you are doing right, why is our home like this?" My H said
"Don't you know God will divide homes to get his work done"

I need good advise. I am seeing a counselor, but they generally make you come up with your own answers. They just listen.

My H will not go to the Dr. He won't talk to anyone for advise or read a book on boundaries in marriage. He said that is all fluff and that he has the best book "the bible".
He also has the best counselor "Jesus".
We are now separated, I asked him to move out because I was loosing my mind.

By the way, I tried to speak with the mother and she is useless. She said in her culture separated means you are done. NO reconciliation. She advised me to have no contact and just email my husband. She said she has no contact with her husband and just lives with him to pay the bills.
She said he is a bad father etc....
I told my husband what she said, but he said "thats why they need help. They have problems and I need to help them."

I need advise.....

Is your husband having an affair?

I don't know what Bible he's reading but my Bible doesn't say that God will divide homes to get His work done. That goes against His character. I can't believe he would say such a thing to his son.

It seems obivous that his involvement goes far beyond helping a family in need. Don't you think that eating "Happy Meals" to get toys for the children is bizarre?

It's sad but he's not the first to manipulate God's Word to fit an agenda.

If you're not happy with your counselor, find another. I learned that the hard way. Please keep reading on this site. Have you considered exposing the situation to his martial arts school?

Ok, first let me say I am not really an expert. All I have done is read 2 books (but they were very good books!) and have some life experience. Having said that, your husband's behavior sounds very troubling, and is at the very least inappropriate.

If it were me in your situation, I would call up CPS and ask to talk to the social worker of the day. I would then say that my husband was showing some behaviors around children that I found troubling, but I really don't know that much about these things, and could they please help me out? Plead ignorance; it inspires people to be helpful.

Then just simply lay things out for them as you did on here and let them decide if it sounds odd. If they think further investigation is warrented they will send someone out to talk to the people involved. They keep the identity of the reporter very confidential, as well. What it boils down to is that if nothing is going on, nothing will come of it. But if something is going on and nobody ever does anything, then things will never get better, either.

I am curious. You said that he was kicked out of the church for this. Was it just for his behavior with this one family or were there other families he was "helping"? A family I know just reported someone in their family that they know for a fact was asked to leave several churches for inappropriate behavior. When the police ran his name, there was not a single complaint against him. That means that all those churches just let him walk away figuring he wasn't their problem anymore. He just went and found another church with more pretty little girls and started ruining more lives.

People with this problem don't "stop", they just move on to new victims. If your husband is fine, then that will come out. But if he isn't, he is ruining lives and needs to be stopped by someone, since he can't stop himself.

If you think it would be helpful, read "The Neaksis Thread: Spotting Child Molesters". A lot of people posted their experiences on there, and you might find it helps you find clarity in your own situation.

Also, I am assuming that you are a praying person, so start praying now for guidance in this, and that if you are to go to CPS that God will guide you to the right person. (someone nice!) I know that many others here will be praying for you, too.

Neaksis

Actually, Jesus did talk about division within the family, and said that a man's foes would be those of his own household...but the context was different and this little scenario the above gentleman has cooked up was definitely not what the Savior was speaking of. (Matthew 10:35-37; Luke 12:51-53) Faithfulness to Jesus often brings alienation between the believer and family members who choose another path. My son and his STBXW are good examples. If she'd just become a pagan, he'd be glad to live with her, because they still love each other. But his anger at God over the loss of several pregnancies has propelled him into (temporary!) atheism...and her faithfulness is a reproach to him. So there's division.

Jesus wasn't talking about abandoning one's own family to pursue another family in place of the one you've already got! It takes some Olympic-class mental gymnastics to "make it so".

t&l

No, I don't believe that he is. Not in a sexual way. I think he is having an "emotional affair". He is way to emotionally involved with these kids. He said that God told him to let people get closer to him. It is true he has always been a quiet reserved person who believed in structure and boundaries. Now, total opposite. He allows these children to crawl all over his truck and play with the radio. He actually encourages it.

We were sitting at a table at our Christmas party at the
martial arts school and a parent made a comment to her child who was playing with her food "I wish you would quit playing with your food and use your manners like a young adult." My H said to her "She will have plenty of time to act like an adult later".

I feel like he wants to be the "good guy" the pied piper
with the children. But he is also tied up with the adults.
It is really whoever will let him get real close. It seems to be about control. I tell him there are other children in class or wherever..they need help but are shy or don't come forward. I actually point them out. He says he feeds the sheep God sends him.

Thanks for your post.

My H knows the bible better than anyone I have ever met. He has read it over 15 times straight through. If you start a scripture, he can finish it and tell you where its found and who said it and what it meant etc.......However, sometimes it seems distorted from what I believe and have been told. It is so hard to deal with because he uses God to do what he wants. (fill his agenda)
I tell him that the bible says love your wives as God loved the church. And that your prayers are hindered if you don't.
My H says, yes but God disciplined the church. He has an answer for everything.
He said the church is lukewarm. Well it does say that in the bible in the latter days the church will become lukewarm. He says I am like them now..happy just being lukewarm. I don't want lukewarm, but I do want my family life to be a little "normal". If he is not off playing with these kids or doing his TKD (Tae Kwon Do) he is not happy.
He is especially attached to these particular kids because the parents allow him to pick them off, take them places, whatever he wants. The mother told me that if he leaves their lives, they will die. Manipulation!!!!! She lives in the same house with her husband but says she doesn't have anything to do with him. She advises me to leave my H alone to and just email for contact. This is the woman that invited my H to go with her and her children to Busch Gardens. My H thought it was okay......but didn't go because I didn't like it..where will it end.

Thanks for your post.

My H wasn't really kicked out of church, but was asked to step down from his sunday school teaching position. The pastors talked with him and explained they didn't think he was a team player and they had a few complaints about his playing around too much with the young people. I really felt sorry for him. I don't think he is doing anything bad.
I feel that Satan is leading him into a trap. He knows my husband has a heart for children. But why can't he see this.
I know "hes blinded". I have talked till I am blue in the face, not to mention argueing and crying too. He won't listen. He said he told God people wouldn't understand, and God said do it anyway.
There have been complaints at his TKD school too. But he curbed his behavior just a little to get them off his back.
He owns the school, so he does just what he wants..
My head stays in a fog, doubting myself so much. It seems to be innocent,but just absolutely no boundaries..
thanks......

I think you may be missing the point here, at least to a certain extent. (1) I don't care if he can quote Scripture backwards, sideways, and upside-down. It proves nothing but that he has the ability to retain words. Satan quoted Scripture to Jesus during the temptation in the wilderness, without in any way changing the essence of his nature. The Bible also says that Satan transforms himself into "an angel of light." So don't let yourself be buffaloed into accepting his behavior just because he knows texts well enough to repeat them. (2) A variety of very large red flags are being waved at you, including, but not limited to: having his actions with children recognized as "off" by more than one group of people, and being asked, or feeling the need, to back off because of it; involvement with a woman who not only admits to estrangement with her own husband, but then tries to get you to put emotional and mental distance between you and your own husband (with whom she wants to spend additional time); opposing parental authority in front of the child involved; intense involvement with children without their parents' frequent supervision or presence...

I was going to write a few more points of concern, but a patient just came in and she's all mine, unfortunately. I worry that you are unwilling to see clearly what is happening before you, because of the implications of what is going on. How terrible for you, if it turned out to be true. How much easier to avoid looking at it squarely in the face, than it is to examine what's happening and take action if needed, regardless of the consequences. You can read the Neaksis thread if you'd like to know why our family reacts so strongly to inappropriate adult activity with children, suggestive of the possibility of molestation. I'm sorry for what you're going through, but this situation still requires that somebody do some investigation, whether or not nuclear fallout results. The other option is even worse.

t&l

I have talked and quoted scripture to my H...like the idea that Satan knows the word well. I tell him to run from the appearance of evil.etc....
What would be my next step...an investigator? I know he takes these children, sometimes just one, home after martial arts class. I think it is inappropriate to be alone in the truck with a child (especially a girl). He takes them to get something to eat and then home I guess. It is usually late. Class is over by 8:30. They may hang out at class a few mintues till 9:00 or so. But the mothers cell phone # is on my bill for calls at 10:30pm on those nights.
That tells me that the children are out that late with him.

What would be my next step, that would mean necessarily ending my marriage yet? I need to have strong proof it there is something going on. I would always regret it if I were wrong.

You don't have to have strong proof just to make a report. It is up to others to do the investigating and to decide if there are any problems. All you have to have is a feeling that something is not right.

Your report will be confidential, so your husband does not have to find out you talked to anyone. If you talk to an investigator, whether CPS or local authorities, they can tell you whether or not the situation needs further attention. I am guessing that they will feel the need to investigate, but that is their job. You don't have to get involved if you don't want to.

My friend that just reported her brother-in-law had some of the same struggles with deciding to report or not. She didn't have any proof , just the knowledge that her daughter and brother-in-law were very "touchy-feely", he singled her out for a lot of attention, he had been asked to leave other churches for his excessive attention to the young ladies, and that one time when she had let her daughter spend the night he had her daughter, a 10 year old, sleep with him in his bed. She can't prove anything illegal happened, but it is enough to at least start an investigation that could reveal the truth.

What gets me about that situation is that she has told me about how several people in her family, including another brother-in-law and her father-in-law had warned her about this man. Several churches had felt the need to ask him to leave because of his inappropriate behavior. She had even warned her brother-in-law, "You're going to get caught one of these times if you keep having little kids over to spend the night." All these people saw a potential problem, but no one was willing to speak up in a way that actually mattered. So, he just kept on going like the Energizer Bunny, molesting more and more kids. Keeping quiet doesn't do anybody any favors. At least give someone the chance to find out.

Neaksis:
What exactly is CPS? Children Protection Services?
Can you report anonymously?
I keep hoping I am wrong about my concerns.He "was" such a good husband and father for years. His family was important.
Now he says they are grown and we don't follow him anyway.
I have asked him to pray with me and have bible studies like most families should. He just can't seem to do it. He has no interest in us. You can tell he is miserable around us. Could it be a "christian" type mid-life crisis? Maybe he wants to be needed and find a purpose. I just hate to believe anything is going on.
I read your thread about child molesters. My H fits the profile,but I can't help but think that Satan is involved blinding him and that he will get falsely accused. I know you might say I am the blind one. It all sounds really bad I am sure. But when you have been married 24 yrs it is hard to be convinced of this sort of thing.

Manipulated,
I typed this once and it did not go through. So as hard as it is I will do this again.
Your post is a big trigger for me and I am sure others.
I was not going to post on your thread, but another member here suggested that I might post to your thread for that reason.
I am a SURVIVOR of sexual abuse. I was molested from the time of I was 7.
Your post gave me the "willies". Your husbands behavior reminds me of a so called "family friend"
Child molestors prey on easy targets. A child from a dysfunctional family is the easiest and safe est for them to get to. Thier parents are preoccupied or sometimes just ignorant to the predators behavior. They look like saints to the family. Helping with groceries, meals, chores, transportation. Anything to get alone with a child. Then this child who is striving for any kind of attention, is left in thier "care". These children are the last ones to complain. No adult should have that much free time spent alone with anyones child. Would you have allowed that for your children when they were young? You need to think of it exactly that way. If this were your child?????
You should ALWAYS suspect first, verify second. Meaning, the thought should be in everyones mind whenever they leave thier child with an adult. I dont care if it is a parent or a family friend. If this thought saved one child from what I have gone through in my life, I would know I have done something to get into the pearly gates...
I am a catholic by birth, and let me tell you, if a priest can do that....ANYONE is suspect!
Please do the children a favor, make that anonomys call and pray for THEM
JE

I am very troubled by the "lag-time" between the end of the class, and the time the children arrive home. No man needs that much time to take some kids back to their mother. Can you have him followed by someone you trust, and someone careful enough not to get caught following, either? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You have the sympathy of many here in your dilemma, and your mind's very understandable reluctance to wrap itself around the idea of your husband of many years possibly being a child molester. CPS (Child Protective Services) will keep your identity out of any investigation and report they make. I'm not sure it you can keep your identity secret from them. That may vary from state-to-state. If you decide to ask them what they think, make yourself a list of troubling behaviors ahead of time, so that you don't forget anything. It will be hard enough for you to make that initial call. You don't want to accidentally leave important stuff out so that you have to keep contacting them with additional details.

Feel free to seek help on this board. It's pretty hard to shock most of the people who post here, and there's lots of good advice to be had.

t&l

justempty,
Thank you for your post. I am sure it is painful to talk about your past regarding this situation. I know my H's behavior brings red flags,however, there are other factors.
When he began drifting, wondering what God wanted him to do that he wasn't currently doing, he started drifting from the family. He lost interest in his home etc... I asked and talked to him many times why he didn't want to interact anymore. I felt rejected. I questioned myself, my looks everything about "me". Things deteriated and I became depressed with mood swings of anger. He continued to get worse with isolation and behavior change. Of course I began to look like the "evil" one. All I want is my husband back the way he was years ago. He loved his boys and me and wanted to serve God and be a part of the Church. Now its like no one can tell him anything. He knows it all. It is judgmental of others and their walk with God. He thinks most Churches are lukewarm. I never thought he would go to this extreme.

Tonight he came by our house just for an hour or two. Usually he will stay being Friday night. But he said he wasn't feeling well and is going back to the apartment. He knows that hurts me. I feel rejected....He will get up early tomorrow (Sat)and go to a martial arts tournament all day. He stays out late (10:30 or later) on class nights but can't stay up and watch a movie with me. He is going further and further away. I feel responsible for some of this. The article on lovebusters tell sme a lot I have done wrong. I was hurt and then acted in anger. But I feel he has choosen other things or people over me. How can he be calling himself a Christian and say he has never been closer to God?

thndrnlitng:
I have been trying to think of someone that could follow my H. He works an hour away, but most of his questionable behavior is here in town. Our TKD school is here and so are the families he is close to. I just need to know the truth and clear my head. But if I find nothing, I still don't think I can handle this behavior. How can I allow him to go off by himself with kids. He said if they were his adopted children no one would say a thing. He said when you see someone on the street with a child you don't know if it is theirs. He said God wants us to take care of the children. That many are being neglected and walked by.

I know what he means, that one day a child could be a stranger and the next you could adopt them and they would be yours. Its makes just enough sense to confuse me.

I am not sure how anyone could follow him and see what is going on in his truck. When he takes the kids home (sometimes just "one" depending on who made it to TKD class)and stops and gets something to eat. How can you see what is going on in the truck? I get sick when I say that. I beg God to not let this be true. I am so sad and hurt. I have friends and family but they all have their own lives.

I am still tired from the cancer treatment and working 40+ hrs. I am getting a promotion on my job and taking on more responsibilies. I am so tired and weary.
Thanks for listening.

thndrnlitng
I typed and posted to you but it don't post.
I have tried to think of someone to help me in following my H. It would be hard to get details, as when he leaves the TKD school with the children (sometimes just one depending on if they all 3 came to class) they are in the truck and then go to eat. You can't see what goes on in the truck with the dark windows. I feel sick saying that. I need to know the truth. I beg God to end this mental torment.

He seems to be drifting further and further away from all of us. He never contacts any family. He said that anyone that wants to hear the word of God is his family. He likes the "special treatment" he gets at TKD. They all say how wonderful he is and gloat over hime. Most of the parents don't have a clue. There are some though that have made comments that has gotten back to me, that they don't like his behavior at all. They don't do anything much about it because they don't let their kids get that close of a relationship with him. They keep it strictly teacher/student.
I know a divorce will be devastating. He makes 3 times my money and is very shrewd. He went and paid off my car and has already got our income taxes ready to be filed. I feel he is getting ready to to something. He won't divorce me, but he might do something to hurt me and cause me to want a divorce. He says God hasn't given him permission to divorce me (yet). I think he will do something with the TKD school like add gymnastics. I am against that because of the contact he will have. Plus he has no background to teach this. But that won't stop him. I saw him looking on internet at the landing mats for gymnastics. He has several young instructors that he wants to put on payroll. I worked my behind off at the school for years. I worked through my radiation treatments and organized demos and parade floats.
I can't tell you the hours I have spent. I am hurt that he thinks these young people need to be put on payroll for work they are suppose to do anyway to get their next belt promotion. As instructors they have to put in hours instructing etc....He has a 20 yr old young girl that he wanted to let come to our house and work on bookwork etc..
on our computer. I said absolutely not. I said what is next giving her a key. He said, what would be wrong with that? Where are his boundaries? He is not just after children....just anyone to control and get close to.

I've read and reread your posts. Believe me, you have our sympathy and as much understanding as we can give having not gone through it ourselves. You have said several times how confused you are, how you doubt yourself and your instincts on this. I know just a fraction of that from my experience with the ECM on the camping trip.

Everything that he did had an innocent explanation. Some of them were a bigger stretch than others, but each time you could convince yourself that it was all in your head. Since that is what anyone wants to think, it is easy to close your eyes to things and sink back into comfortable oblivion. I felt that tug all weekend, even though I had no emotional investment in this man; he was a virtual stranger that I had no history with.

But when odd behaviors start to pile up, one thing after another, it becomes too much of a stretch to assume that things are innocent. I am not saying that is the case with your husband, but it is at least a question that needs to be faced.

I have found this helpful to give me clarity when I am feeling confused. I picture one of the most trustworthy, proper men I know (which in my case is the head elder at our church) doing the things I'm wondering about. Usually that helps me to get some perspective on whether or not it is normal, acceptable behavior. Don't get me wrong, either. This head elder loves kids and plays with them, he just always keeps good bounderies with them.

If there is someone like that in your circle of aquaintances, use him for a little mental check. It can help you see things in a fresh light. I

I am still praying for you. I wish there was something more concrete I could do for you, but you can know that you are in my thoughts and I am sure in the thoughts and prayers of many others on this board.

Neaksis:
I understand what you are saying about comparing my husbands behavior to a man that I think highly of and respect. You know, that use to "be" my husband. I compared him to others and he always was the "better" man. I use to think he could walk on water. Other women would tell me I was so lucky to have such a good christian husband. But now something is defintely wrong. But I still doubt myself somehow.

Its true life is not fair I guess. From the day we got married we have had trials, but all on the outside of our family walls. My father walked me down the aisle and never came home to my mother. I have two brothers that are drug addicts. Its like most families one thing after another. I feel like I could write a book.

I have been at the point of not wanting to live many times,
but God pulls me back. I have a testimony I feel that one day I will be able to put in words and maybe help someone else.

I'll post to you tomorrow, but since I've been up for 26 hrs. on the strength of a 2-hr. nap, I'm packing it in for tonight. We'll be praying for you. Neak and Neaksis both have things to say. Maybe they'll have time tonight after the kiddies are in bed, and old Granny is asleep, too.

t&l