Hey!!! I was looking through the post "Psst - RLD...." and I need to tell you about a conversation I had with ww last night. I approached her with my need to develop a marital separation agreement (a GREAT suggestion by a friend who is divorced). She does not like discussing the divorce - and defended with passion her reasons. I listened to her. I did not defend myself. I just listened. She talked about how for 12 years she feels that i have never listened. How she felt she was in a box, and I would travel, and work, and come home and open the box and give her all my love, and put her back in the box. And I listened. I looked her in her eyes, and told her I hear her. My impulse was to defend - but I just listened. I told her that I wanted to protect my custody rights. She told me that the kids could have no better a father - that she would not find a better man. But she still stands by her divorce. She is afraid of the box. Of no intimacy. Of my not receiving her passion.

I have come to terms with the divorce. I am ready to move on. But I still feel like it is absolutely the wrong choice. I have reconciled the pain - the ......

I have given up on it. But - I think it was Mortarman - who said that the love is like a car battery. You can wear it totally out. But come back in a day or two and it will have regenerated enough charge to crank one more time.

That remaining small charge is there. But I am afraid to turn the key. Both Harleys told me it was over.

But I see hope. She claims she does not. She said she anguishes every day with this decision. She asks herself if she really wants to divorce this man. And she has tasted the wild, single life. She may have a man in the wings right now.

We both agree that it is in the kids best interest to stay in the same house. But I told her I could not deal with her going out with other men. She said she knows - as if agreeing. But she still stands by her divorce.


What is going on in her head?????????????????

This is kinda hopeful - and I want the best for my kids. I can not stand the thought of a day without being in their lives - without them being in mine.

She is teetering on the edge of maybe - just maybe - thinking of some day giving the relationship another chance.

I am not anguishing. I am not passionate except for my kids. But I want to make the right choice. God is a god of forgiveness. Of grace. And who am I to defy that.

Sorry for rambling. This is kinda my blog - my journal - but with questions.

She has done a LOT of reading of fairly new age stuff - stuff that empowers her to feel like she must make herself happy. That really complicates things.

Anybody know about any of this?

G'night.

far

FAR, I see some glimmers of hope there. Listening is huge for a woman who feels she was not heard for a long time. I think you will find many of us FWW's had the very complaint about our H's. Have you thought about asking her to go on a weekend just the two of you? Just to reconnect. To give her a chance to talk while you listen? Or perhaps a marital retreat if she is open to it. Family life does their weekend to remember here in California. I think the first ones are in March. I am going to ask Dorry to post to you too.

I just saw this. That is the kind of entitlement crappola that scares me. Where does she stand with her faith?

^bump^ for Dorry

Yes, unfortunately, I do know alot about the New Age Movement. It's EVERYWHERE in our culture - some hidden, some not.

This website describes it pretty well (read up):
http://www.carm.org/nam/nawhatis.htm

A couple of important points about New Age:

What the New Age Movement does not do.
It does not teach that man is a sinner - Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:3.
It does not teach that man is dependent upon God for all things - Isaiah 43:7; James 1:17.
It does not teach that punishment is eternal - Rev. 14:11.
It does not teach that the wages of sin is eternal separation from God - Rom. 6:23; Isaiah 59:2.
It does not teach that Jesus is the only way to God - Matt. 11:27; John 14:6.
It does not accept Christianity as the truth - 2 Tim. 3:16.

The New Age Interpretation of Christianity
God is not a personal heavenly Father but an impersonal force.
God is all and all is God. God is not the "wholly other" creator of all, but part of all that exists.
There is nothing that is not God. (This is pantheism.)
There is no sin, only incorrect understanding of truth. Knowledge is what saves, not Jesus.
He11 is not a place but an experience here on Earth; it is a state of mind.
Jesus was just one of many way showers of divine truth. He exemplified the Christ consciousness probably better than anyone else.
Christ is a consciousness, a form of the higher self. It is possessed by all because everyone is divine. "It is not Christ that can be crucified" (Miracles, Lesson 303, p. 441).
"A miracle is a correction...It merely looks on devastation, and reminds the mind that what it sees is false. It undoes error" (Miracles, p. 164). A miracle to a New Ager is not God's intervention into this world to perform His will but the realization of the true reality that God is all and that you are God.

The New Age View of Man
Since all is God, and man is part of all, then man is God. This is pantheism.
This is an eastern mystical belief system that has crept into mainstream America.
God is not part of creation. He is separate from it and made it (Isaiah 44:24).
Therefore, man is good by nature.
Man is not good by nature (Eph. 2:3).
Man has infinite potential.
This arrogant conclusion based upon false concepts of grandiose self worth, is a deceptive, self-satisfying indulgence into pride. As Satan wanted to be like God (Isaiah 14:12-17) and encouraged Adam and Eve to be like God also (Gen. 3:1-5), the New Ager listens to the echo of that Edenic lie and yields to it willingly.
Man is one with the universe.
Again the difference between man and creation is blurred. Man is made in the image of God (Gen. 1:26). The universe is not. Man is different than creation.

Scary stuff if you asked me. It's in your kids books at school talking about how we are all part of the whole - one with nature, etc. It's in your kids cartoons - talking about using the force for good (Daniel 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces : and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.) It's on TV everyday (Oprah is a big New Ager along with many many others). Everything in our culture has absorbed it.

But, what is most scary is they are using Christian terms to confuse people. Oprah talks about God alot. She even talks about Jesus. But, she is certainly not referring to the God of the Bible or the Jesus I know.
http://www.goodfight.org/hwowinfrey.html

I'd get her as far away from the New Age Movement as possible (if you can) because this is driving her away from you & away from God.

She is a Christian, but has been reading tons of stuff that is not in line with scripture. It helps her feel better about her decisions.

What a day. I called and asked ww to the Valentine's banquet. She was flattered. We discussed going someplace different. We agreed that she would let me know.

My son heard the conversation, and asked "daddy - who did you ask on a date?" "Mommy." He was suprised. He said "I thought you and mommy were getting a divorce." My 4yo daughter said - "mommy broke up with you." I told them that I did not want a divorce, that mommy wanted the divorce. That I did not think it was the right thing for the kids. (I know that my 12 yo has heard inappropriate conversations when I was not home)

Well - apparently it came up later today. WW emailed me, and let me have it for giving the kids too many details. Now she feels she has to defend herself (duh!!!) - and I should not have brought the kids into a complicated adult situation. She pointed out that it would be much more mature to tell them that there are grown up situations that are hard to understand.

This morning I had a small amout of exitement (not putting any eggs in a basket, though) about the possibility of taking a baby step in the right direction. Then it all seems to have been blown to he11.

Oh well.

Patience.

And time.

I will keep you posted.

far

If I attack the new age stuff, it will drive her away. I will need to lure her - covertly - back to scripture. And yes, scripture and Christianity is used all over the place in the new age stuff.

I am typing a note in response to her email right now.

So how do we lure her back???

far

Is she attending church with you? FAR, look into the Weekend to Remember www.familylife.com

Tell her no strings, you can stay in separate hotel rooms but you want to give your kids every chance to have a happy life. See what she says.

You are correct that you can't slam what she is reading. Let's see if we can't get some other Christians here to give you some ideas of luring her back to Christ. Perhaps change your thread title asking for Christian help??

FAR, how are things going?

FF - funny you ask....

Twice this week I have had conversations with ww during which she stated that she would not find a better man than me. We had a little bump - I discussed things with the kids, told them stuff in kid language - but told them that MOMMY wanted the divorce, that I thought it was wrong, and that I did not think it was the best thing for them. She emailed me railing me. I emailed defending, and we volleyed a couple of times. BUT..... I finally approached her in person and said we need to talk, so we are clear, and understand each other.

Well - saturday after taking the two little-uns to Curious George (ww, me, and the kids) - WW let me in on some info. She has a court date scheduled -but she is scared to death freaking out! She is afraid of making a mistake - but does not want to return to her life 2+ yrs ago (sadness, etc.) I told her, as I had written her in the emails that she could stay in the marriage and not feel that way. I told her I am a different man.

She is seriously doubting her wisdom with this divorce. I asked her later what did she want to do when she grows up. She wants to complete her masters. She wants to home school. She wants to do a bunch of things that will only work if she stays married and works it out.

I am tired. I perceive that she may still have something going on with someone.

I have not been comforting her. I have let her stay with her doubt by herself. I do not tell her I love her.

But I do.

But I am tired. I am working on the marital separation agreement, and hope to give it to her by wednesday. That should really make the confusion and doubt get really focused.

I am ready to move on. But I want nothing more than for it to work out. And now SHE is talking about it!!


Well - she is at least doubting the divorce.

She hugs me like she means it. And does not let go. I hug her back.

I guess i need to brush up on my SAA. It feels like we may be getting close to a decision to recover moment.

I have given up. And now this!

Am I excited??? Am I worn out???


THAT is how it is going!!!

I understand the comment by Harley that when the WS finally comes around, they have to work hard, because the BS is ready to quit. He is.

Anybody understand what I am saying???? (tongue in cheek..)

cautiously considering being mildly excited....

far

I think the fact that your WW is having doubts is promising. The last thing I would do now is come on strong to her. Didn't the Harley's suggest that you were approaching the end of your M?

Hopefully you will get some good advice from some of the vets on here.

I thought your flame had gone out?

I wonder what others feel about doing a strong Plan A for a few more weeks and then hitting her with Plan B.

far, don't give up hope. You came on here a little before me and I followed your thread so I'm glad to see there is still hope.

Remember as long a one parter is still willing to salvage the M, it can be done!

Good luck

Hope - Thanks.

I do not plan to come on strong. I explained to her the benefits of staying married. But my plan right now is to move forward as if she is continuing the divorce. And it is not a show. I am moving forward to protect myself, and my rights as the father of my children.

When I stated that my flame had gone out, it had. I am interested in my kids having the best situation, and survival of the marriage is the best thing for them. Otherwise, I would have been out of here months ago.

I am chewing on my thoughts. I have lots of 'em, and need to do some serious journaling.

Thank you all for your support.

Mortar explained his car battery analogy to me. Sometimes when your car battery dies, you crank it until it seems nothing is left. Come back a few days later, and enough juice will have developed for a couple more good cranks. That is where I am. I had dis-engaged, and begun to re-arrange my psychology as a single father.

There is a little smoldering under the seemingly dead fire, but it will be gone soon. I am thankful for plan A, and how well it has helped me move through the pain, and completely burn out the love I had for ww.

far

{{FAR}}

Not a 2x4 because I think you are an amazing dad, but I do think apologizing to your WW/stbx for telling the kids SHE wants the D will go a long, long way. There were many times I wanted to tell my DD but she KNEW from observation how hard mom was trying and I did not have to spell it out.

I would continue to move forward with protecting you and your kids while keeping a crack in the door for your WW to come to her senses. I think you are doing a great job except for the above convo with the kids.

(((FAR)))

I wonder if your wife is too scared...

I think your wife is having glimpses out of her fog...and it's what is confusing her. You see - when we are in "the fog" we become COMPLETELY convinced of things. You see she is feeling more confident, more sure if herself than she has in years, more independent...and all while she is WW...so that means (in her head) that you must be the problem, and the marriage...cause she never felt this way before...and these new feeling are motivation enough to BELIEVE that divorce, leaving, finding someone new are the BEST things for her - and for her kids, since she will be happier.

Let me guess - is your wife also a talker? like to talk about her feelings, talk about changes she thinks you should make? etc. And sometimes - if you had a bad at work, or she was nagging, would you just kinda brush her off? to her - that became neglect....and she felt resentment, unloved, etc...and it eventually led to her frame of mind. Right now she is convinced it was probably your whole marriage...but you see, she is having glimpses of reality - reality that it wasn't all that bad and it is CONFUSING the heck outta her....

This is mainly because of the way YOU are acting - you are staying calm, you are listening, at the same time as communicating your boundaries...You aare showing her LOVE despite all that she is doing...that LOVE confuses her - I bet she thought deep down you really didn't love her...

I agree that an apology for telling the kids will go a GREAT long way...and like FF said - keep going forward, but keep that crack open as long as you can....cause she is confused and that is really a good sign - it really is...

Dorry - FF - thanks. I really need the advice and direction right now. I am moving into unfamiliar territory (possible recovery).

YES - she is a talker. And I did not do a good job of listening. She always seems suprised the last year or so when I listen without interrupting, then sumarize what she told me.

I did apologize for telling the kids that, and told her that I would encourage them about her love for them.

I have been very guarded with my words with her. I am quiet - but I listen well. But I do not say much.

I do not verbally tell her i love her. But i did text message her on Saturday: "I DO love you. far."

She mentioned that she got it, but could not text back.

I think she is starting to see through the fog.

My dad gave her my grandmother's ring when she died. She treasures it, but has not worn it in a long time. She pointed out this morning on the way to work that she is taking Nona to work with her today. She is wearing the ring. I prayed that she would hear my grandmother's voice during the day.

I am still working on the marital separation agreement, and moving forward as if she is going to finalize the D. I plan on giving it to her to review tomorrow. (happy valentines day!) I will not be mean or caddy - but businesslike when I discuss it with her. Reading it, I think, will be no fun, and a 2x4 of a dose of reality. She is very, very afraid of a future divorced.

BTW - we are going out tonight. Just the two of us. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming. YOu guys are saving my life.

far

Yes...talk and listen. Don't be too quiet. Be up, cheerful, talk about how great your kids are, how proud of them you are, talk about what is new or interesting in YOUR life. Then listen while she talks. Look directly into her eyes while she talks. Smile, smile, smile. Don't be afraid to tear up if you are feeling sad, it is ok for her to see you sad.

Will Do!!!!

That is what I would do naturally.

far

See! You are doing great.

Okee dokee. Dinner went well. Conversation was back and forth between light and serious. But the evening went well.
She is very seriously considering trying again.
BUT - she is vehemently opposed to MB. She HATES being categorized (she stated "I am NOT a WW" - saying the letters - I am not even sure she knows what that means.) She despises the idea that she fits a pattern. She is not interested in discussing an MB directed recovery.

Oh well - fogtalk. There was lots of fogtalk tonight.

At the end of the evening she brought up that I called her shrink and told her that she had talked about suicide. She then explained how anyone that knows her would never consider that she would do such a thing. I told her that for the last two years, I have not known her. She commented "Well, that tells me a whole lot."- with attitude. That kinda pissed her off. She is still kinda steamy over that one. But every event that I thought would be the dealbreaker has followed the book.

One step at a time. She is more confused right now than ever in her life, she told me tonight.

Well - a good evening, all things considered!

OH!!! We held hands a lot after the table was cleared and driving home.

I have told her a couple of times that it would be good to be a couple again. She is aware of the positives of recovery. (she hated when I used that word...)

She is still very defensive of her actions and decisions.

Still not putting any eggs in the basket, though.

I will give her a copy of the marital separation agreement wednesday - for her input and so we can edit it, unless advised to the contrary.

far

Good job, FAR. You might consider leaving a copy of "After the Affair" for her to read. It is the easiest to read from the WS perspective, IMHO.

I will find it.

The WS perspective is a big hurdle. I really need a lot of help from you wonderful ladies that have been down that road. I might like to copy and paste some stuff you write that encourages her. Dorry - thanks for providing that.

We will see what becomes of it.

I came home from work today so Mrs. far could go to work for 3 hours. They have tons of valentines deliveries, and it will look good for her to go help get a lot of that done. I will work my 8 today after she gets back.

Thanks for your support.
far

FF - is the "After the Affair" book the one by Janis Springs?

Letting Mrs. FAR get a few hours in on Tuesday was a good thing.

We have been talking more. I called her today to ask if she found out what her court meeting is about. Apparently is the time she presents papers to the judge. She does not have an atty. I am still working on the marital separation agreement. I have an appt. with an atty that I liked talking to on the phone - set for Friday.

I told Mrs. FAR that I would have it this weekend for us to go through. She said she thought we had already discussed this - she is not interested in raking me over the coals. I told her it was just to make sure we both get what we want. She explored how to put off the finalization of the D, but did not seek counsel about it. All she found was a petition to withdraw the original pet for div. I told her I would ask the atty about it on Friday.

I have been very respectful, and making sure communication was very clear about what I am doing, and she is responding positively.

I thought about something she said the other night at the end of the date. She dug up some paper where I had logged some of the stuff that is suggested by the book for fathers fighting for their rights. It disturbed her - that I was keeping tabs on what she was doing with the kids.

I did not say - do not think I will need to - but have prepared this statement: " I am sure we have both written things that we wish the other had not read..." (re: all the emails with OM from last May) I hope it does not come up again.

I am rusty on the beginning stages of recovery. Last year at this time, I would know what to do. It has been such a long shot that I have forgotten. I want to get on the phone with Steve and have him tell us what to do. But Mrs. Far is kinda opposed at the moment to MB stuff.

But I have only just remembered fog talk this week. And how most of what they say is Krap. And I have been led to posts talking about how things we do that seem to generate a negative response do not actually cause harm, and possibly even continue the flow in the right direction.

I had become comfortable with my status, and now that it has changed I find myself becoming anxious again.

But then I realized... Give it to God. Then let it go.
And I did. Boy did that feel good.

Gotta keep giving.......


OK, my guides. Lead.

far

Janis Abrams. Excellent book BTW. Only one I could really relate to, though I love Torn Assunder too. I think this is a good sign that you still have embers for Mrs. FAR. Why not get on the phone with Steve by yourself? Update him about the changes and get his take on how to begin recovery. It is not unusual for the WS to be suspicious or resentful of the MB program.

Oh btw, here in CA you can just not finish the D and within a couple years it drops off the court radar. My atty told me that. He said it is better to do that than to file a petition to stop the D. That way you can still pick it up again if things don't work out.

OK - I have questions - but am with the kids this evening while Mrs. FAR works late.

This will be scattered -

The hearing for the final judgement is on Tuesday. I am urging her to ask for a 60 day continuance. I will be there and ask for it myself. She is still waffling.

She has gotten a couple of cards in the last three days, in the mail. No return address. I am curious, but at this point I want to not push her away by starting up with the jealousy stuff. She acts like she is still trying to make up her mind if she wants to be married.

I need to get on the phone with Steve. I think that is the best idea.

Mrs. FAR has been receptive to hugs the last few days. She does not let go.

And last night, I was kneeling beside her at her bed. Cuddling on her some. I told her "I want to touch your lips." Before I was finished with the last word, she responded "I want you to touch my lips."

For the first time in over a year, I touched her lips.

far

And another Q.

When the issue of SF comes up...
and it will....

I know I need to get a medical report stating she is clear of STDs.

How is the most non-confrontational way to do that??? I can imagine how I would feel getting that question. I know I need to state that it would do the family no good for both of us to get ill, or possibly die. But I perceive she might be offended. Then, there will likely NO SF....

I guess I better go get some protective sheaths.....

far,

When I came on the MB scene back in July, yours was one of the threads that I got much of my insight from. I don't think I ever posted to you back then, but I want to let you know that I did follow your story and was sad to hear you give up several months ago.

I remember you calling in to the Harley radio show and them telling you your M was in its final stages. I was sad for you and I could tell your love for your WW was running critically low. Heck, your signature said "my flame is out" or something of that nature.

I just wanted to let you know that I'm really pulling for you and your WW. I get the sense that she is stepping back from the edge of the abbyss and struggling with coming back to you.

You can do this, but it will probably take much effort and more time. I think you on the right approach by not pressuring her at this point and letting her slowly come back to you.

You've been at this an awful long time and it may be starting to turn around for you.

As for the STD issue, I would go with condoms for now until she feels safe enough to discuss the issue and getting tested.

You dissapeared for a few months...what happened? What do you think started the turn around in your WW? Did she hit bottom or crash?

I'm pulling for you my friend. You can become another success stroy!

Hope - thanks for your note. I appreciate it.

I received a lot of great advice from the likes of Mortar, WorthaTry, and many others. (Like at the academy - once you start naming names, you are likely to forget some of the most important folks. Every single person that posted to me is important, and has guided my path. I will be eternally grateful.) I, too, have harvested very important insight and advice from other's threads. (Gramn)

My flame had gone out. I pulled back, and began to adjust to the thought of life not married. I realized how incredibly important is is that I be with my kids EVERY DAY.

Long ago, Mortar gave me the analogy of the car battery that is going down, and you run it until does not click. At that point it is dead. Come back a few days later, and it will have regenerated enough juice to crank over a couple of times. That is where I am.

I think WW has begun to see the true nature of the men she has become friends with, and is beginning to realize that she does not want that. ( I think that because she has said that...) I believe that she has been watching me. I have changed. She has seen some changes, and I have told her about some of them. She did not seem to realize that I had become free from the bondage of internet porn over a year ago. I told her just a week or two ago. I had been doing another spiritual ritual that involved serious prayer for her, but stopped early in December. She asked about mid December how it was going. I told her I had stopped. That sunk in to her slowly. She seemed affected by that. (I have since started again.)
I am a different man than the one she thought she was divorcing, and she is beginning to question herself.

I do not know what is going on with her - but I feel like she feels like she is going through a personal he!!. I do not think she has hit rock bottom, but she may respond to just seeing it approaching.

I will be another success story whether we are married or not. This site has helped me grow so much.

I am not putting any eggs in a basket, yet, but I am hopeful.

I really appreciate your support. Thanks for your encouragement.

I have not followed your thread, but I will pray for you, bro.

far

FAR, this is very true! Let me think on the STD issue, though I agree with Hope that condoms are good thing too.

Well. Yesterday I went to the courthouse and sat in front of a judge with my wife. The judge questioned each of us, and my wife responded that she believes that no amount of counseling will repair the marriage. On March 29, I will no longer be married.

But Mrs. Far is in a strange place. We stepped outside the court, and I embraced her and she sobbed the deep sob that moves your whole body. We went to the car, and I embraced her and absorbed her tears. We sat in the car, and had a good conversation.

I think we are close to a breakthrough. She says there is a part of my personality that scares her. I wrote her a couple of notes - she will get them when she gets home from work at lunch. I will go to work and be there until almost 10pm tonite.

In the first note, I awoke at 12:44 this morning, and began writing the stuff that was in my head. It outlined how, even though she says she is not interested in romance right now, she will eventually be pursued and enjoy the exhilieration of that, and begin to court someone. I will know because of the familiar pain, rejection, and sleepless nights. She will withdraw from me. At that point I will decide, to protect my heart from bitterness and feelings that I do not wish to have about her, that it will be time for us to live in separate places.

Then I explained how, three or four nights a week, our kids will say "when is mommy coming home?" "Is daddy coming to play with me today?". I wrote about the phone calls, and the crying without the kids. I will cry for my kids. A lot.

I thanked her for the 12 years of loyalty, and stated that I have LOVED being her best friend.

I wrote to her that I know that parts of my personality scare her, and that I wished to talk to her for hours - days - years - so that I may understand what scares her, make it go away, and be the man that makes her feel 1000% secure.

I acknowledged that her situation is unique. I stated that every situation is unique, and that I communicate with with people every day who have felt the way she does, and now have the aforementioned security.

I stated, again, that God could redeem the marriage. But that He has given us the choice. And that I can not choose that path by myself.

At around 3:15am, I got too tired to write and went to bed.


Today I have been both sad about the end, and exhilerated about the possibilities. I wrote the second note about my excitement about the possibilities.

It is an amazing time. I swing pretty low at times, but mainly remain stable. Mrs. Far yesterday only saw a strong man, full of confidence and strength. I have a strange sense of peace, and I know that she senses it. It kinda drives her crazy, because she is in such confusion.

I may not be going by the book. But I am doing what I feel God is impressing me to do.

I will continue to study the successes here, and listen and learn. And pray.

far

I am slipping into a depressed state. (no - not clinical and not California) (and I am tired and have not slept much the last few nights)(well - OK - the last few hundred nights...)

All of my hope about a possible recovery is slipping away as I read the writing on the wall.

Mrs. Far has received three cards in the mail in the last week. No return address, and she slips them away quickly. She has stated that she is not interested in romance with anyone right now. (last time she said that was right before she dove in head first into one of her affairs)

The marriage will end on March 29.

I will now continue to plan for separate living spaces. I will consider a plan B - I think she is closer to responding to that than ever. But I do not have much more energy. I will complete the marital separation agreement and begin negotiating the terms of it with her.

The pain is not nearly as severe this time around. Just a lot of sadness for the kids and the opportunities they will miss out on.

Do you understand the peace in the midst of this storm? I still have peace. Thank GOD.
far

far
Yes, I do understand. You did all you could for sake of your kids and yes for your WW. You should have peace my friend. Hey your final date is my bday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Plan B at this point needs to be for YOU and your kids. Take care of yourself and those kiddos. Don't give up on us here ok?

far, I understand what you are going through right now am glad you have some peace during this tough time.

Didn't the Harley's say it was too late for Plan B in your case? Why did they say this?

I fully understand why you would want to go to Plan B right now since your energy level is so low and you need some time away from this madness.

You fought this hard and your kids will never be able to question your committment. You can take some solice in that.

Let us know what you do. take care

Faithful - Happy upcoming birthday!!!!

Thanks for telling me you understand. I feel like I have been standing in line for the rollercoaster, and my turn has come.

I will do all I can for the kids. Always.

I just had a fairly good conversation with WW. I think... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I can not give up!!!!! My kids need me to be a hero. And I will. And if my M is saved in the process, cool. Otherwise - everything will be ok.

I sure appreciate my Faithful friend.

far

Hope - the Harleys did not say it was too late for plan B. They said the M was over. That I had lost my wife. They say that because they have a combined 40 or more years experience, and have seen it all.

But as she stated Tuesday after the court appearance where the judge asked me if I thought that with counseling that the M could recover, and I responded "absolutely" - without hesitation - I am one stubborn son of a bicth. (maybe she said [censored]...) I told her "speak for yourself". She laughed and we embraced.

I will remain here for a long time. Gotta stay warm by the fire.

far

maybe you can change your screenname to onestubbornsob LOL

I truly admire your courage and determination. I too have found peace in understanding that *I* did not cause this mess. Took me a long, long time to believe that.

My bet is you are already a hero to your kids.

More quasi weirdness from w. She has not talked any more about reconciliation. She still seems to want to be divorced but live in the same house. I could go for that if she was not involved with anyone else. Who knows - she might accidentally fall in love with me.

I still think resolving the marriage is the best thing for the kids, for her, and for me. Well - I KNOW it will be best for the kids.

She has claimed she is not involved, and not interested in romance. (last time I heard that was a month before the A with the director) She is being pursued. She has gotten 4 or more anonymous cards since Valentines. She says she has no control over it. ( I think it is a person at the hospital where she works) Since she is not interested in reconciliation, she is not interested in me making it stop. (I have a very effective plan for that)

I need advice about a letter I want to write. I started writing it - but decided to seek advice first. In it I tell her I feel she is vulnerable, that I know one her needs is quality conversation, that I know our babysitter/friend fills part of that need, but that she will eventually need it to be met. (that is where I stopped writing..) I want to write: I would love to fill the need.

I am not sure what else. Maybe that the window is open, but about to close. That I will move on.

Any ideas. I feel the need to write her, but at a loss for words.

Thanks!

far

I'm at a loss for words for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Hoping someone else will jump in. Not much else I can say except to speak from your heart that you want what is best for you entire family including her and you feel strongly divorce is not the right path. That you want to be the one to fill those EN's of hers, especially conversation and you look forward to getting to know her on a deeper level. Then let her know you feel the window in your heart closing.

Saints on Fenceposts! It is uncanny how well the process is known. I have read about the actions ww would take, the feelings I would have. I am entering a rollercoaster phase of feelings. It feels like the final burn, but reading Believer lets me know that it is not. Reading Ark helps to calm the storm - straighten the curves.

Thanks, FF, for your reply.

God always sends the words. They will get here. (usually at 3am - bummer of a time, eh?) He will provide.

I will be still.

far

When is the next SoCal get together? T'would be good to meet those that Mel has so much fun putting down. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking we should have you and Believer host the next one in your area or Nerly and Bellevue suggested Disneyland so the kids could go. We have to put our heads together.

You know what I discovered recently, FAR? Harley is right on and I guess you just realized that too. Everything I told my WH that would happen has happened and if he had been able to defog long enough to listen he could have protected himself and us, his family but I guess they have to get there on their own foggy time frame.

Yes - I think it was the elder Harley that told me I would have a much better chance of getting through to her in 5 years.

Saints on Turtles - that is less than 4 years away now!!

far (onestubbornsob)