Post deleted by hurtOW

I am moving this post to a more appropriate forum (General Questions )where you can get the answers you need.

Welcome, HurtOW, to MarriageBuilders...though it doesn't sound like you're here to rebuild your own marriage.

What I hear you asking is a lot of whys and hows...you sound extremely hurt, angry, in a lot of pain and looking at where you are today feeling incredible despair, is that correct?

There are a lot of articles here on coping with infidelity that might show you how betrayed spouses (BS) forgive, rebuild their marriage, to answer one of your questions. It is difficult for one to imagine another person's belief as being valid when we have not had the experience to go with it in our lives. Understandable.

You were brave and sincere enough to come here and post. People here have been betrayed and betrayed others. They are all at different levels of recovery, some are in the raw, just found out stages, some are five or more years recovered; some are divorced; what they say to you will be their truth. They are good people in pain. Period. They cannot help what you perceive as "bad" or attacking...please realize that when you feel judged, many times it is because you are judging yourself...not the other person.

And we can't control what you feel...your feelings are yours; ours are ours. If you'll be open, I'm sure you will find help here...and true friends--maybe the kind you've craved your whole life, who knows?

I want to summarize and confirm what advice you want:

--You want help getting over Jim. Maybe from other FWWs..how they did it?

I can show you what you said...that Jim does not live up to your expectations...you list all the things he didn't do that you expected he would do as a friend or lover. All that he didn't do, didn't say, and by refusing contact does show he does not care for you. I'm sorry, but it is true. Most As are not anything about true caring...you fall in love with the fantasy, not the person. This truth might help you, because like a drug (which I realize you don't have any experience with), fantasy feeds us, gives us highs, false feelings of confidence, being cared for where we can feel it, that we can practically vibrate with. Not real. The fantasy gives us that, not the person. And the fantasy is usually more intense in ratio with the depth of pain you're already in before the fantasy takes full flight.

Accept that you are human, as was Jim. He didn't choose you, but his wife. He gave you a truthful no contact request...no more calls, closure, etc. He doesn't want or need that. He needs instead to be transparent to his wife and he will tell her of any attempt at contact by you. This is not rejecting you, but the A...he now realizes what I told you is true--he loves fantasy, may be a sex addict and wants to be a great father and husband. I bet he is doing a lot of soul-searching and waking up, also. Big growth time. Please honor yourself and do not contact in any way again...for the rest of your life. This is give you back self-respect and strength, beef up your ability to accept yourself and your past, and others...and mourn the loss of a fantasy that fed you like a drug.

--Is that normal? His wife had issues with marital intimacy. Not unusual for an A to give a BS a feeling of being erased, replaced, decimated to put sex into a perspective of what it means...I was the same way because sex was acceptance to me (didn't know that then) and I went into a hyper-sex reaction to his A. It was incredibly painful, full of images of them together, and I cried through it, shook and held my jaw tight...the sadness went through me like a black tunnel, full of fear. I did it anyway. I craved to do it, trying desperately to exist again. Anything to exist again. Don't know your affair partner's wife's reasons...just my own. Something outside your experience, equally real.

--Does she know how cold he is? She married him. She lives with him, not in emails or phone calls. Wars and all. She chose to stay and love him, cold, or not. She knows how cold he can be...and he wanted to make a baby with her. She has her reasons. He has his reasons. They are human, fallible, erring and still whole, complete and lovable...like you. Like me.

--You ask why would she want someone like him as the father for her child? Because he is.

--Doesn’t he have any responsibility towards his OWs? No, he doesn't. See, the way we view people is as consenting adults. People choose...you pointed out his wife's choices, Jim's choices, David's choices...but not your own. Not recognizing that you own your choices, even the vodka and pills, where you walk, who you contact...is lethal. I find denying myself in not owning my choices. I have no power, am helpless, a waste, unwanted, thrown away and useless. When I see the truth that everyone makes choices--humans do--and know I make these choices, for better or worse, I have my power in place...no despair can enter, no helplessness, invisibility or feeling like trash. I know my power--I only saw it as mine when I kept giving it away. You're not alone.

You say you don't know how to get over this...I believe you mean everything...from how you've made your choices the last seven years, who you are, what you believe you're capable and incapable of; why you choose what you did with your H, Jim, David, others, and what that means in you.

Are you in individual counseling (IC) and group? Meds? What kind of support network has been opened to you since your attack?

You're not alone...I believe what you are feeling is felt by BS, WS and their children; and APs and their families. The destruction goes round and round. The loneliness, stunning reality of how things ended up so badly; can't stop crying, hating ourselves, needing to connect and fearing more pain.

Things you didn't ask but stated:

You believe others should feel your pain, not just acknowledge it...you want Jim to suffer.

(I applaud your self honesty here.)

You want revenge on him for rejecting you, not being your friend, for being cold to you and not caring about you the way you wanted him to.

You fear David's action and feel unprotected and responsible for other people you love's protection. You believe your choice of cutting off communication with others will make them safe.

You sound hurt and betrayed from Jim's wife knowing what was private between the two of you...fear what they think of you, how they use your secrets and you sound like you feel violated and betrayed. I know you know that you are the betrayer, as well as Jim, and that you only control yourself, not others. That this is the reality--fantasies cannot be intimate...they cannot be honest because the do not contain reality. They are the enemy of reality. You feel a lot of pain, deep, severe pain, as reality comes back and the fantasy leaves. Lots of anger, fury and resentment. You're human. Accept that you feel like a victim instead of a perpetrator.

You are in an extremely difficult position because you are both...victim of David's, perpetrator in your own marriage, a FWW to your husband (he would be the victim); a co-perp with Jim against his marriage and child; a victim of yourself and your choices which didn't feel like your own; and now a perp against yourself, your life, and feeling like a victim because you don't see all the choices you make...negating your power.

Wow. That is so much. Let me know how close I've come to understanding and maybe we can find a little step by step to get through.

You're not alone in the rape/attack, either. Ladysheep has a similar story, only she is the BS. You can talk to her if you'd like...but she's only recently finished court and is very angry at her WH's OW...so, I don't know. Be as gentle and accepting of others...when you feel rejection, you might just feel it--you aren't being rejected, more pain is...so remember...

you are human and make mistakes...that doesn't mean you are one.

LA

I'm so sorry about your rape and the nightmare David put you through. Please, please, please get some help thru rape crisis counciling. It will help you so much. You need to quit focusing on the outside and turn your concentration to you and healing yourself.

>He never once asked if I was OK or anything.

I know this is harsh, but he owed you nothing. Nothing. You were fooling around with someone else's husband and you expect him to be sympathetic because of this decietful tie?

>I needed some better closure than this, so I called Jim yesterday.

I, I, I......hmmmm....seems to be a theme.

>didn’t act like a man and end it with me himself (he had his wife call me!).

and a "man" cheats on his wife.....not very manly from the get-go.

>Someone also please tell me how his wife could forgive him so soon? I mean, he had an affair with (at least) 2 women over 2 years, even while his wife was pregnant, and even had a threesome. And she forgave him and jumped back into bed with him right away. Is that normal? Did it turn her on or something? Doesn’t she know how cold he is? Why would she want someone like him as a father to her child? I really don’t get it at all. From what Jim says, she is very religious, so it makes no sense to me. She’s even thankful that I came along, otherwise she would have never known about the affairs and their marriage would not be as strong as ever.


THAT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. PERIOD. What they do, how they get on with their lives is none of your concern. You built your house (relationship) on the sand (lies) instead of building it on the rock (honesty)...now you are surprised that the sand shifted? No, really?


>I can deal with losing Jim in a relationship kind of way, but not as a friend.

This is a lie you are telling yourself. You've already proven that you cannot be just a friend to him...not to mention that any relationship with him now would prove how little you think of his marriage and his renewed commitment to his wife.

- Kimmy

HurtOW...

-Get Rape Counseling...

-Call 1-800-SUICIDE anytime you feel like "checking out"...

-Realize that Jim did what he should have done...marriage=forsaking ALL others...

-Regain your own integrity by bowing out of Jim's life...IT IS THE ONLY RIGHT THING TO DO...


Mrs. Wondering

Jim’s wife called me at work and started yelling at me. Jim had given her my number. At this point I didn’t even know what she knew about me. She started out by telling me about
Should his wife have said you were responsible for the rape, beating.. No that was uncalled for. But in comparision to what the two of you have done to her. I would say your verbal pain is far less than the pain you and her husband created for her. I just don't see where you show any significant sympathy toward this woman, or much responsiblity for you role in this.



Fool yes, but all about him. Again you both screwed up. Did you honestly expect to have an affair while married, with a married man, and "live happily ever after". I guess you will just have to consider this a life lesson.


He's a jerk for having any relationship with you while married, or better to say he's human and made a mistake. Just like yourself for having an A while you were also married. Do you feel you are that much better because you returned from your A=affair and asked for a D=divorce? You seem to be wanting someone here to tell you what you have done is OK? So far the only thing I have read that makes sense in all of this would be. His latest action to work on his M with his W=wife, and provide there child with the father the innocent kid deserves. In order to do this, for the sake of his W, NO CONTACT with you is mandatory. If you can not understand that, you should look at it from the perspective of this wife.



Repsect their wishes. Do not be the OW that won't go away. Your pain, and feeling of lose is the typical fall out post A. They have enough on there plate right now. Do not add to having to deal with you trying to make contact.



He probably ended it the way his W wanted him to. Respecting her wishes. Again she is his WIFE.



Again, You take no responsible for this?



It's call coming clean with everything. It is required to ensure no more fall out is felt in the future.


I would bet she gets NO enjoyment in seeing those pictures. I will leave my comments at that.


The same way most of us here have. We love our spouses, and unfortunately an action like this while THE MOST painful thing I have ever endured (which includes lose of a close family member). She is just now seeing for the first time "I am losing my husband" or have lost my husband. Is willing to fight to keep him first and foremost, and deal with the pain and again post affair fall out along the way.

Have you never loved anyone that much? The last man you married for example?


sorry can't bit my tongue anymore,

here come the 2X4's

Your a real catch! With comments like this from a so called educated professional, with a good family back ground? You have issues. I would suggest you seek counsel FAST.

END BEATING HERE..

You seem to be very self centered. I can assure you, He is going thru a very rough time. That not only afffects him, but his whole family.



** DELETE COMMENT** Not to worry it was nothing positive.




You need help NOW. Tell your family, your doctor, everyone. Get help immediately! How is your families safety in jeapordy if you go to them for help and support?


It doesn't work that way. You say you just want the friend, but thats not being honest. You do not want to let go of the possiblity of having something more, and you would be happy to be "friends" today, because it's better for YOU than losing him cold turkey, but in the back of your mind, you just want that door not to lock. You want it open just a crack, so I can work my way back in!

You might qualify this as a negative response. I know it's not what you want to hear. But you need to hear it none the less.

You really need to focus on getting yourself fixed.

Good luck to you, and please read all you can on this site. Hopefully it will help you see abit clearer.

First thing: Realize this, Jim is done! Respect the fact that Jim is going to try to reconsile his M. If you keep contacting him you will GREATLY diminish his chances of reconsiliation. If you have any good feeling left for Jim consider granting his request as your last gift to him. If you don't have any good feeling left for him consider the fact that he used you and threw you away when he was done! Either way don't contact Jim! It will do neither of you any good.



You are not alone! Even now you are reaching out to others on this board! Others will also reach out to you! The pain of rejection / betrayal is well understood on this board.
BTW: Thoughts of suicide happen when the pain that you are in exceeds your capacity to deal with it. We'll share some of our strength to help you through these feelings. Also an IC would not be a bad idea to help you get through this.



You have us to speak to right now! We'll be here even after you find an IC.

Tell us more about David, your relationship with him, where he fits into this (we got the rape part). Have you already reported this to the police? Gotten an RO?

It's very important the you speak to your H and family about this. You will need a lot of support to get through this. Besides, if "David" is out there and he has set his sights on them shouldn't they be warned about this?



See the first part of this post. Sometimes you can't just turn back the clock and fix this.



You will get sincere advice from us. You may not get the advise that you want to here but it will be sincere and with your best wishes in mind.



Extramarital affairs never turn out well. Look around this board and you will see lots of examples.


Are you still married to you H? Has the D been finalized? Do you have any children?

Post back and let us know how you are doing.

Stay strong.

One thing - you said that Jim persued you? I do believe you contacted him first? Am I wrong?
OK- one more thing - Jim told you he was trying to end his marriage and Jim told you it was sexless - I wonder if his wife knew either of those things. WS lie - lie - lie. You'd be surprised how many marriages according to the WS are awful. But they never let the BS in on it.

Walking the field I believe she is still married to her husband. She mentions at the very end of her post she can't tell her husband, so I'm assuming two things, either the divorce was withdrawn or she is till married to her husband and the divorce is still proceeding.

This has got to be one of the biggest loads of horse apples that I have read on these forums.

Take your alleged "rape" to the proper authorities and let the legal process take the path it is designed for. It has no place on an MB forum.

You seem to be a walking, talking, breathing and typing excuse for your obvious well honed sense ofself entitlement. In the process YOU have ruined how many lives???????????

Now if you want to drop the phony mea culpas and accept COMPLETE AND TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR LIFE, then the good and blessed people on this site will help you for as long as you want our help.

Wow! The OW asking for sympathy. I know an OM she can connect with. I'll have my FWW give you the number if you need it. Oh, and don't worry... he'll show you all the sympathy you want and tell you whatever you want to hear as long as you have sex with him. Because, remember this, the OP is ALL about love and honesty just as much as the WS. Really... they are. Just ask anyone here.

BTW - Read my signature and guess how much sympathy I have for you.

HMMMM....long, drawn out, attention grabbing post THEN......

ZIP, ZILCH, NOTHING..............

Interesting.

She could be busy reading and posting at gloryb.com... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Mrs. W

You know Mrs....I've a lot of friends who are FOW none of them has an atom of this person's sense of entitlment.

It staggers me how me, me, me/you, you, you she is behaving.

Not only does she not GET that she participated in wrecking this marriage...but a child's life also. Yet all she does is deflect the attention from her own actions to the husband's only....as if this isn't her own sin she contributed to.

I feel for the boyfriend tribulations that she is going through...I really do....but she is so focusing on the wrong issue right now. She really needs some healing.

- Kimmy

HurtOW,

You definitely need more help than this forum can offer. Take the advice of the other posters and get into counseling TODAY...

I had to come at my truth sideways, too...

I believe what was important was getting to my truth...not what direction I came from.

LA

One thing, YOU persued him. You sent that email to him, that opened pandoras box. Don't blame him for responding to your invite.

I sure didn't notice much out of your marriage or relationship...how is your husband doing?

Post deleted by Cherished

Those were really brutal replies...for the most part.

I did read SOME good advice.

If you're not able to help a poster...because of whatever reason...don't attack them. Don't lash out like this person is the reason your own marriage met it's day in infidelity court. She even started off her post with an apology..in the event she hurt someone or offended anyone.

Is it really any wonder why she never posted back?

Nice work...

Lead them to someplace they can get support or something. You all know of a gazillion other boards to send a person to.

Good Grief.

Never ceases to amaze me ... ever....not HERE ... ever.

Hurt,

I'm sure feel probably feel pretty beat down from the responses you received here including mine, but please let us know how you are doing?

Please respond.

Worried, JKT

BIN - The poster was told THE TRUTH. Brutal or not, what she did was wrong and to continue to stew on it is only going to gnaw her alive. She needs to face the truth and to GET HELP. Considering her terrifying ordeal, she needs help from a professional - this is way too big for her to try to cope with by herself....especially taking into account the many facets of her hurt.

She has to step up and get help. The men in her life have already proven that they won't help her.

I don't expect she will be back.

JKT...

I don't know. I think she's here, reading. My projection, of course. See, I felt I was being bashed terribly when I first posted back in December of 04...least ways I recall. I wasn't being bashed, but advised.

I argued with the advisors. I didn't get it. I kept reading, minding, exploring and following posts. I eventually got a lot more than what I came here seeking...including my marriage.

Wanted to share why not posting may be a good sign...never know.

LA

Oh my have YOU come to the WRONG place. If it's sympathy you are looking for, you won't find it here. I have lived through the ****** that the OW in my life has caused. Yes, there were phony "crises" as well -- fortunately my beloved husband (the FWH) saw right through them.

Frankly, if the FOW in my life threatened suicide because she was so despondent..... well.... let's just say that neither my beloved nor I would bat an eyelash -- neither one of us believes a word that woman has to say.

Get counseling, "Hurtin OW" -- cause that dog don't hunt. Your time with "Jim" is gone and done. Find a life of your own an stop trying to wreck the lives of others.

Sound bitter? You bet I am! I lived throu 5 years of ****** because of somebody just like you who manipulated her own husband and MINE.... So, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for you.

This post makes me laugh. The OW wanting sympathy. Sounds the OW in my situation, and interestingly enough my husband's name is Jim and in the military! But, I am not pregnant, so I guess that coutns me out as the BS in this situation! The OW that my H had the A with had no sympathy, and never apologized for pursing a married man for 15 months in Iraq while his wife was at home being faithful, and she knew he was married.

You are seriously mistaken if you think you're going to get any sympathy from me!

Post deleted by hurtOW

Good to hear back from HOW.

I was afraid that you were gone for good when you didn't post back for so long.

I'm glad to hear that your doing better now and are seeing a theripest.

I know that this is difficult for you to not contact Jim. You will have to go through withdrawl from him. The process ususally takes months to complete. Please believe me when I tell you that it will be best for everyone involved if you never are in contact with Jim again.

In your first post your mentioned a Husband / possible divorce? What's going on in that area? Are there any children involved?

You are not the first nor will you be the last OW to come here and post. Hopefully you will learn how to use the knowledge / wisdom available on this website. There are others on this board that came to the truth "sideways" and have stuck around to help others who come by.

Stay Strong!

Post deleted by hurtOW

HurtOW, are you receiving counseling to help you heal from the rape? You need that counseling to help you heal...

hurtOW - you are very brave to post here, hear all the criticism, and still come back. Thank you for agreeing to NC. It will be best for all concerned. You will have ups and downs as you begin your recovery. You can continue to post here for support and advice - although as you already know, many have no sympathy for you.

But you can make it through this and be a source of insight and encouragement to others in future - if only to warn them against making the same mistakes you have made. You may not understand how that will be possible right now, but in time you will.

I wish you all the best.

I too wish you the best and know you are hurting right now

Post deleted by hurtOW

We all have a long way to go, every single one of us. Stay honest with your feelings, respect the request for no contact, and take care of youself.

Great to see you post again, Hurt...

I think your unsent emails to J are what you need right now. That they are unsent shows your commitment to yourself. If you could cut them down, one per week, you could also demonstrate to yourself that J isn't in your life and still your days are full and yours.

I remember that you are a psychologist...was it in addictions? Do you feel the same cycle to your desire for emails and the resulting feelings that addicts do?

I'm curious because you benefit others by posting. Have you ever gotten the surety of your presence being enough?

Last thing...a little humor, and given how you were pounced on before, I'm hoping you'll see this with a smile. When I went to say hello to you, I abbreviated your name like an acronym. Doesn't work. LOL

LA

Post deleted by hurtOW

You spelled it out! And yes...I thought you could share a chuckle with me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I realized after I posted that I mixed up part of your story with LTM (long time mistress). That was all my bad, lazy memory and not re-reading. ::

How are you creating another way in your life to share what you've been through? To know you well and thoroughly, without judgment?

Using the emails like journals...I get that...I just cringe when you delete...not to send, but to record. Writing in a real journal would give you a thread of yourself on paper. Wiping it out as you do gives you something else.

Tough time with bday. I'm glad you're committed to yourself and your life. Your choice to not let go because he was the only person who knows...is yours. You know what happened, you were with you every step of the way, and you matter.

LA