I hear over and over, from other postings, that affairs rarely last. That affairs are built on the obvious: mistrust, lies, untruths, etc...

But...in reading many of these posts I'm shocked to see how many people are facing Divorce. Some, with circumstances that are unconscionable: leaving their pregnant wives, and serving divorce papers when the infant is only a few weeks old.

How can men do this??

I have experienced this first hand. When WH had affair #1, he left me when I was only 4 months pregnant (affair had been going on when we conceived - unbeknownst to me). We reconciled before the baby was born (he swore the affair was over), but here's the kicker:

The day our son was born, only 6 hours into recovery, the OW phones OUR birthing suite at the hospital. I answer the phone with high expectations that it was family or friends to congratulate us. Would you believe she asked to talk to WH?? (he was in the room). When I handed him the phone, he was obviously angry at her and told her not to call back. He hung up. She called back. We had to call the phone desk to ask them to hold her calls, which they failed to do as she called a 3rd time (noticing desperation on her part?). We literally had to unplug the phone from the jack. But to say that memory of our son's birth, that is supposed to me so incrediable, was crushed by my WHs selfish acts of affairs. When we got home from the hospital, she left 28 (count em...28!) voice mail messages. Sobbing. Threatening. Anger. Pity. "Why did you do this to me?".

Again...I want the REAL facts. Do affairs really end or do they usually result in divorce and marriage for the affairees. The stories here are not clicking with the comment that affairs don't last (as dictated in Plan A that they typically disolve in 6 months).

WH is in his 2nd affair at the moment, and while I'm not asking for guarantees, I just want to make sure the info that's being posted here has documented statics behind them.

I will look for the statistics - but affairs don't last. There is a percentage that last less than 6 months, a percentage that last less than a year, and a very small percentage that last more than 3 years.

Of course, an affair can cause a divorce, but when you look at the statistics, the affairees usually don't marry each other. The less than 3% who do get married have a greater than 75% chance of divorcing.

To continue what Believer was saying:

And this doesn't mean that it's all over once a spouse has an affair. It needs to be addressed and properly understood by husband and wife so that it never happens again.

For those spouses that continue to have multiple affairs, there is often no hope (but I won't say never). They have a deep rooted problem that they are often unable to fix.

Ooh! Stats! I love stats!

(No, really... I'm one of those people who find ANY stats fascinating. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)

What a terrible story. I am so sorry that happened to you.

xHale, there is no standard reply as to how long affairs really last. Most folks here say that the affair dies by the two-year mark, but they can last anywhere from just a few weeks to many, many years, if not a lifetime.

It seems that you want to know how long you will have to wait for your WH's most recent affair to end all by itself, so that then you will have a chance to fix your marriage.

That's not the solution. It really doesn't matter how long affairs usually last, because part of Plan A is busting up that affair in the first place. So what's the point of asking how long they last?

I will also say that this behavior seems to be the norm for your husband, instead of a temporary aberration of character. Maybe the psychiatrist he is seeing can help him understand why he has chosen to be a serial cheater and why something like his girlfriend calling his wife in the birthing room is okay with him (and it must be okay or he would have gotten rid of her pronto.)
Mulan

Excuse me?

Don't you mean how can "people" do this?

I'll accept your apology in advance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

xHale - you are mixing apples and oranges > affairs and divorces

The vast, vast, vast majority of affairs DO NOT LAST. Period. I don't know the stats. You'll hear some PEOPLE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> quote some. But intuitively, affairs are doomed.

Divorces resulting from affairs are another matter. Just because an affair ends doesn't mean the marriage is automatically saved. That's a WHOLE nuther matter.

I'm divorced. My XW married the man she wasn't having an affair with 5 months later. They aren't divorced - yet. But IT WILL happen. It may have already happened if not for her stubborness to "prove" she was right - all the while both she and OM are married to known adulterers (each other), paying penance with their worrisome instability. Can you imagine constantly watching for the other to cheat again? (I "help" by including in our rare conversations - every chance I get - the phrase "when you divorce...." Maybe this has the effect of prolonging their suffering. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> )

WAT

xHale - this question pisses me off a bit.

What the he!! do you want from us? A guarantee?

You're not gonna get one.

Documented statistics? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Listen to me young lady, you go out a buy all the books on infidelity you can find, read them all, visit Divorce Busters and read everything there, watch all of Dr. Phil's appearances on Opra, and when you're done come back and tell us what you've learned.

Here's a statistic you can take to the bank > 100% of known affairs will result in divorce if the BS wants them to.

What do you want? Statistics or results?

Get to work and quit trying to analyze this.

Sheese.

WAT

Then you'll probably love this site:
http://www.statlit.org/

The poster was talking about leaving a pregnant wife, but I support your right to make politically correct language choices in describing the situation. After all, somewhere in this country there very well may be a couple, Jane and Judy, in which Jane leaves Judy for Samantha during Judy's third trimester of her pregnancy (made possible by donated sperm from their friend Truman).

Divorce Statistics

I'm not sure how reliable that site is but have at it.


This is actually three different and distinct questions. Perhaps you can find some statistics in the above link.

Facts are facts. There are no unREAL facts. Facts and 'usually' don't work well together.

The fact of the matter is, only you can decide the outcome of your marriage. Don't make marital decisions based on statistical averages. Statistics vary from city to city, state to state, country to country, source to source.

Worthatry,



Who is "us"? xHale is not asking for guarantees, she is asking for information.

Isn't it interesting that some posters get flamed for not backing up their opinion with facts and others get flamed for daring to ask for facts so that they can form a fact based opinion? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> A person cannot win on this site.

***xHale - this question pisses me off a bit.

What the he!! do you want from us? A guarantee?***

I am not here to annoy or anger anyone. I am in the beginning stages of a long process that has me in a fog, where I am deeply wounded and hurt. I know that no one has the crystal ball to tell me what my WS will do (whether he'll end the affair or not). I only seem to be seeing the stories here of non-successes. Maybe those that have successes don't report back, but the common threads I'm seeing here are those that are going through a divorce and the WS is with the person they had an affair with.

***Excuse me? Don't you mean how can "people" do this?***

I was refering to the question: How can men leave their wife when they are with child, or only a few weeks after their child is born. Please...everyone, don't take what I say personally. Everyone has been so kind, supportive and has provided me with more insight than I thought possible.

On the heels of this, my WS moved out last night to go into the arms of the OW, so anyone that has experienced this
knows that my pain has increased ten-fold, so please have patience and understanding. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

ba - I suggest you go back and read ALL the posts I've made to xHale. Let me know when you're done - including your assessment of whether she's been presented with "facts" or not already.

xHale - sorry for my bluntness. I spent a lot of time earlier with you on the prospects of affairs - even gave you a stat from Frank Pittman - one of the foremost authors on infidelity. Remember, we are not professional counselors here. Our advice is free.

I understand your anxiety over his move. I've been there. This is not such a bad thing. Now he has to try to have his expectations from OW met. The grass may not be greener.

Please do not consider this to be the worst that can happen. Take advantage of the situation by continuing a good Plan A. No begging, no pleading, no LBs. Just allow him to experiment, because you cannot stop him.

What did he say in his departure?

WAT

Now, there you go again. Do you have a mouse in your pocket? You seem to be speaking for a collective.

***Do affairs really end?***

Eventually, they do. Most seem to end in about two years or less, according to Dr. Harley on this site and according to the posters on this site and their own personal experiences.

***or do they usually result in divorce?***

Plenty of people end up divorced after an affair, either because the WS refuses to give up the OP or, even if they do give up OP, so much damage has been done to the marriage that it cannot survive.

And on the other hand, plenty of people do end up saving their marriages after an affair. Just read here.

***and marriage for the affairees?***

Sure, some of them get married. It's as if they HAVE to get married to PROVE their love is real and good (blech). But according to people like Dr. Phil, only about 3% of these marriages last for more than a very few years.

However -

xHale, you CANNOT rely on statistics to make your decisions.

As I said, if you are looking for a way to just wait out your WH's affair because "statistics say they all die after six months or two years or whatever," you are positively doomed to failure.

The only thing that kills an affair and saves a marriage is when somebody is willing to fight FOR that marriage, and not sit back and hope the stats are right.

Personally, I did not care a damn what the stats said. This was MY marriage and I would have fought for it even if the stats said "no chance".

What will *you* do, xHale?
Mulan

What's your beef with me, ba?

OK, MY advice is free. How much do you charge?

Have you read ALL the free advice I've offered to xHale yet?

Please present any differing advice you have.

WAT

worthatry,

I have no beef with you. Your little outburst caught my attention is all...and the inferences that you speak for, or represent a board collective of sorts.

xHale, sorry for the little threadjack. Back to you and your sitch. Mulan echoes some sound advise. Do not base decisions on statistics. Create your own.

My H started his long-distance affair with his old high school girlfriend when our third daughter was 5 months old and our other two were 4 and 2. She has divorced her husband, he has filed divorce papers, and he intends to move to her hometown and see our children four to six weeks a year (summers, every other Christmas, etc.)

I found a professor whose research purports that "rekindling old flame" relationships are in fact quite successful. H says that he has spent his life longing for the emotional and physical connection he shares with her, that it is a love story a la Charles and Camilla, Nancy and Ron, Tristan and Isolde, Roy Rogers and Trigger (okay, I made that last one up).

Who knows. He's only 37; there are a lot of years for him to get through before it becomes a love story for the ages. I have a hard time believing that eventually the guilt for leaving his wife and young children will not somewhat poison the relationship. Deep down, he knows that this is not how good men behave. However, I am in Plan B, and find myself rapidly not caring.

Well he may have also been refrring to a husband who has his wife knocked-up by another man. I think his point is these affairs are not just men doing this to women. If you are a man and I would think he would be just as devistated if his wife was pregnant with OM baby.

Of course in that case he may not find out about it right away. I think WAT's point is that this is not men bad woman good thing. Women do just as terrible things to men, at least I think that was his point.

Yes, that was exactly my point. I guess the faces weren't enough to communicate the jest.

This was flaming? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

WAT

One reason you don't see a lot of success stories here is because many of them are on the recovery forum. Also lots of people quit posting once things are going well. The third reason is that these things take a lot of time, much more time than one would think.

Actually it may be a good thing that your husband has moved in with the OW. There is nothing like a little reality to end the fantasy.

Well, yes, they do, but the poster WAT cited was referring specifically to situations in which men leave pregnant wives, so her question "How can men do this?" seemed entirely appropriate to me, since it was pretty clear what the referent for "this" was. I notice WAT did not question my lexical choices the other day when I asked what was going through the mind of a woman who gets involved with a man who leaves his pregnant wife. However, in deference to WAT's and your sensibilities, I'll rephrase my earlier question-what on earth can be going through the mind of a person who would get involved with a person who would leave a pregnant life partner.

Is that better?

els - how do you know what I was thinking?

Sheese, let's make a mnt out of his molehill.

If you had been reading xHale's OTHER thread the last several days, you and ba109 should have deduced that I was being light hearted - as evidenced by my emodicons and presumption that xHale knows very well that men are not the only ones capable of astonishing selfishness. Give me a break!

Go ahead - just browse thru the subjects of threads over several days worth and see how many references to WH there are vs WW or even the neutral WS. Very frequently female posters refer to WHs when they ought to be referring to WSs. I am very much aware that female posters outnumber males here. But I bet I'm not the only male who cringes when WH or "men" or "husband" is used when WS ought to be used inrecognition that men certainly don't have a monoploy as WSs.

WAT

When did I say I knew what you were thinking? I was commenting on what you wrote.


For me to have deduced that, I would have had to believe that I knew what you were thinking.

ba:

I shouldn't, but I'm gonna, anyway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />:

WAT can speak for me all he wants. I believe it's accurate 2 say that OUR advice is free, because *most* of us aren't professionals, at this stuff at least (if xHale or anyone else wants my professional opinion about the geology of other planets, I'll consider charging for that advice). And in the case of MY advice, at least, all y'all get what you pay for! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT: do you really say that 2 your xW when you talk 2 her? That's hilarious! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

xHale: I'm a scientist, so I find statistics useful... ...2 a point, that is. About As, even. The stats on how long As last and whether Affairees get married and how long THAT lasts if they do has bee useful framework stuff for many (most?) here at one time or another.

But in the end, what you do is up 2 you and what you want 2 do. But I can understand that you may not be ready 2 make life-altering decisions at this point in time. you will be able 2 at some point, though.

best,
-ol' 2long

I truly, truly hope that I didn't start a feud here. It was never my intentions to insue a mud fight. I know my questions may appear desperate, fruitless, and mostly, repetitive....but I'm still in the "trying to make sense of it" mode. I'm only 4 weeks into discovery of the affair, and WH moved out last night.

So, forgive me for insulting anyone. I never meant to imply that men bad / woman good.

WAT has been EXTREMELY helpful. He was there for me, posting continuously a few days ago to help me understand Plan A (still waiting for my SAA book to arrive in the mail). I will be forever grateful for his considerate and "delicate" postings. Not once did he cast stones, or judge me. He's been there...and knows about every emotion that I've gone through and will go through. And for that, I sincerely thank you, WAT.

I do realize that statistics do nothing for my situation, but I just don't want to believe everything I read w/o research first. Hence, my post. I realize that I can only control what I do, and not what WH is doing. However, I have learned that through my actions implemented on Plan A, I am indirectly affecting WHs affair -- maybe/maybe not.

My Plan A, briefly shared here, is that I've set the tone to WH as he moved out: "I am unable to be part of a threesome". WH still is receptive to changing counselors (from a psychiatrist to a marriage counselor). My Plan A consists of showing him that I love him, and that I am open to him when he's ready to commit to our marriage (end the affair).

I talked to the marriage counselor briefly on the phone (I performed an "interview", at best). I just didn't want to get hooked up with another kook that did the "I okay/you're okay" thing and told us to go our separate ways. What kind of advice is that??? Anyway, I believe this MC is on the right track: we have love as a foundation of our marriage, for that we are sure. Love built our family and it needs repair. She will give us the tools to forgive, to repair, and to build. She stated that we will most likely go into individual counseling with her after the first joint meeting. Those future meetings will tell all...

I am a Christian. And I've been in constant prayer with Him to guide me, give me strength, and to open up WHs eyes to let the spirit of the Lord guide HIM. It is my prayer that this happen through my ongoing Plan A and WHs individual counseling to get to the REAL issues. WHs has had multi-affairs, which I've deduced may have deeper issues than say, a WS that has one affair. The MC needs to get to the cause of these symptoms (affairs). Needs to cure the disease. WHs is in the first stages of recovery. He recognized, last night, that he is seeking happiness and will never find it by constantly having affairs. His admission is like that of an alcoholic that admits that they have a drinking problem and that the alcohol will not solve the problems they are running from.

Time will then tell...

If WH continues with the independent counseling sessions, then it tells me that he WANTS to change and is making an effort TO change. I will love him and do whatever I can to support him. This doesn't mean that I support his affair and that I will continue to tolerate it. But the light of day will come to him if the counselor is any good. IF WH breaks appointments or ends counseling prematurely, it will tell me everything: he's not serious about making changes in HIM. I can't repair this marriage by myself, or with 3 in it for that matter. I will then be forced to move to Plan B. But I'm still fuzzy on how long I should stay the course with Plan A (I've heard 2-3 months). But instinct tells me, with the affair still going on, I should probably go to Plan B immediately if he stops all counseling.

BTW...found this other thread on affair statistics in case anyone is interested:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=1#2849634

worthatry,
Just for the record, it wasn't your first post on this thread that I took issue with, it was the second. Water under the bridge now.

2long,
Thanks for the clarification. All I wanted to know is "who is us?"

xHale,
There is nothing wrong with asking for or studying the statistics of affairs. If that is what helps you to better understand and deal with your situation then study away.

You obviously want to beat the odds or you wouldn't be here.

xHale,

I'm jumping in here late in the ... whatever it is that has been going on here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you that the stats are important. I have tried to ask about this previously and nobody responded with a helpful answer. They just keep saying "everybody knows..." or "this expert says...".

I want to see a study, with real numbers of real people. "Social Science", they call it.

So far, I've not seen such a study, but I haven't chased down all the links or read all the books (even books I own).

I do think that these stats get inflated, deflated, adjusted, fudged etc. as they are repeated over and over again - on this board, and in between "experts".

It's like the "drink eight glasses of water every day" advice. It started with one doctor on some radio show and was repeated for years. Finally, the "New England Journal of Medicine" commisioned a study and concluded that this advice was pulled out of thin air and is not justified by any study that has ever been done. But, people (mostly water bottling companies) keep repeating it.

I can only guess what the real stats are for A's turning into lasting marriages. There's got to be a better way than guessing.

As for myself...

I'm divorced, my XW seems disinclined to marry the OM. I have no idea what will happen downstream. I'm hoping to re-marry her.

-AD

Joel Best (http://www.udel.edu/soc/best.htm) calls statistics like that "mutant statistics".

AD,
Off the subject, why would you want to remarry your X-wife? What do statistics show in that being successful?

It would probably take a near-death experience to get me to regain what I lost after my wife had an affair. I'm still waiting for that moment. Right now it's all about making sure I can limit the damage this has done to my sons.

arch99,

You asked "why would you want to remarry your X-wife? "

First reason is for the sake of our child.

Second is not based on "reason". There is no "why". Love is not a rational force.

-AD