Well, yes, they do, but the poster WAT cited was referring specifically to situations in which men leave pregnant wives, so her question "How can men do this?" seemed entirely appropriate to me, since it was pretty clear what the referent for "this" was. I notice WAT did not question my lexical choices the other day when I asked what was going through the mind of a woman who gets involved with a man who leaves his pregnant wife. However, in deference to WAT's and your sensibilities, I'll rephrase my earlier question-what on earth can be going through the mind of a person who would get involved with a person who would leave a pregnant life partner.

Is that better?

els - how do you know what I was thinking?

Sheese, let's make a mnt out of his molehill.

If you had been reading xHale's OTHER thread the last several days, you and ba109 should have deduced that I was being light hearted - as evidenced by my emodicons and presumption that xHale knows very well that men are not the only ones capable of astonishing selfishness. Give me a break!

Go ahead - just browse thru the subjects of threads over several days worth and see how many references to WH there are vs WW or even the neutral WS. Very frequently female posters refer to WHs when they ought to be referring to WSs. I am very much aware that female posters outnumber males here. But I bet I'm not the only male who cringes when WH or "men" or "husband" is used when WS ought to be used inrecognition that men certainly don't have a monoploy as WSs.

WAT

When did I say I knew what you were thinking? I was commenting on what you wrote.


For me to have deduced that, I would have had to believe that I knew what you were thinking.

ba:

I shouldn't, but I'm gonna, anyway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />:

WAT can speak for me all he wants. I believe it's accurate 2 say that OUR advice is free, because *most* of us aren't professionals, at this stuff at least (if xHale or anyone else wants my professional opinion about the geology of other planets, I'll consider charging for that advice). And in the case of MY advice, at least, all y'all get what you pay for! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT: do you really say that 2 your xW when you talk 2 her? That's hilarious! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

xHale: I'm a scientist, so I find statistics useful... ...2 a point, that is. About As, even. The stats on how long As last and whether Affairees get married and how long THAT lasts if they do has bee useful framework stuff for many (most?) here at one time or another.

But in the end, what you do is up 2 you and what you want 2 do. But I can understand that you may not be ready 2 make life-altering decisions at this point in time. you will be able 2 at some point, though.

best,
-ol' 2long

I truly, truly hope that I didn't start a feud here. It was never my intentions to insue a mud fight. I know my questions may appear desperate, fruitless, and mostly, repetitive....but I'm still in the "trying to make sense of it" mode. I'm only 4 weeks into discovery of the affair, and WH moved out last night.

So, forgive me for insulting anyone. I never meant to imply that men bad / woman good.

WAT has been EXTREMELY helpful. He was there for me, posting continuously a few days ago to help me understand Plan A (still waiting for my SAA book to arrive in the mail). I will be forever grateful for his considerate and "delicate" postings. Not once did he cast stones, or judge me. He's been there...and knows about every emotion that I've gone through and will go through. And for that, I sincerely thank you, WAT.

I do realize that statistics do nothing for my situation, but I just don't want to believe everything I read w/o research first. Hence, my post. I realize that I can only control what I do, and not what WH is doing. However, I have learned that through my actions implemented on Plan A, I am indirectly affecting WHs affair -- maybe/maybe not.

My Plan A, briefly shared here, is that I've set the tone to WH as he moved out: "I am unable to be part of a threesome". WH still is receptive to changing counselors (from a psychiatrist to a marriage counselor). My Plan A consists of showing him that I love him, and that I am open to him when he's ready to commit to our marriage (end the affair).

I talked to the marriage counselor briefly on the phone (I performed an "interview", at best). I just didn't want to get hooked up with another kook that did the "I okay/you're okay" thing and told us to go our separate ways. What kind of advice is that??? Anyway, I believe this MC is on the right track: we have love as a foundation of our marriage, for that we are sure. Love built our family and it needs repair. She will give us the tools to forgive, to repair, and to build. She stated that we will most likely go into individual counseling with her after the first joint meeting. Those future meetings will tell all...

I am a Christian. And I've been in constant prayer with Him to guide me, give me strength, and to open up WHs eyes to let the spirit of the Lord guide HIM. It is my prayer that this happen through my ongoing Plan A and WHs individual counseling to get to the REAL issues. WHs has had multi-affairs, which I've deduced may have deeper issues than say, a WS that has one affair. The MC needs to get to the cause of these symptoms (affairs). Needs to cure the disease. WHs is in the first stages of recovery. He recognized, last night, that he is seeking happiness and will never find it by constantly having affairs. His admission is like that of an alcoholic that admits that they have a drinking problem and that the alcohol will not solve the problems they are running from.

Time will then tell...

If WH continues with the independent counseling sessions, then it tells me that he WANTS to change and is making an effort TO change. I will love him and do whatever I can to support him. This doesn't mean that I support his affair and that I will continue to tolerate it. But the light of day will come to him if the counselor is any good. IF WH breaks appointments or ends counseling prematurely, it will tell me everything: he's not serious about making changes in HIM. I can't repair this marriage by myself, or with 3 in it for that matter. I will then be forced to move to Plan B. But I'm still fuzzy on how long I should stay the course with Plan A (I've heard 2-3 months). But instinct tells me, with the affair still going on, I should probably go to Plan B immediately if he stops all counseling.

BTW...found this other thread on affair statistics in case anyone is interested:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=1#2849634

worthatry,
Just for the record, it wasn't your first post on this thread that I took issue with, it was the second. Water under the bridge now.

2long,
Thanks for the clarification. All I wanted to know is "who is us?"

xHale,
There is nothing wrong with asking for or studying the statistics of affairs. If that is what helps you to better understand and deal with your situation then study away.

You obviously want to beat the odds or you wouldn't be here.

xHale,

I'm jumping in here late in the ... whatever it is that has been going on here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you that the stats are important. I have tried to ask about this previously and nobody responded with a helpful answer. They just keep saying "everybody knows..." or "this expert says...".

I want to see a study, with real numbers of real people. "Social Science", they call it.

So far, I've not seen such a study, but I haven't chased down all the links or read all the books (even books I own).

I do think that these stats get inflated, deflated, adjusted, fudged etc. as they are repeated over and over again - on this board, and in between "experts".

It's like the "drink eight glasses of water every day" advice. It started with one doctor on some radio show and was repeated for years. Finally, the "New England Journal of Medicine" commisioned a study and concluded that this advice was pulled out of thin air and is not justified by any study that has ever been done. But, people (mostly water bottling companies) keep repeating it.

I can only guess what the real stats are for A's turning into lasting marriages. There's got to be a better way than guessing.

As for myself...

I'm divorced, my XW seems disinclined to marry the OM. I have no idea what will happen downstream. I'm hoping to re-marry her.

-AD

Joel Best (http://www.udel.edu/soc/best.htm) calls statistics like that "mutant statistics".

AD,
Off the subject, why would you want to remarry your X-wife? What do statistics show in that being successful?

It would probably take a near-death experience to get me to regain what I lost after my wife had an affair. I'm still waiting for that moment. Right now it's all about making sure I can limit the damage this has done to my sons.

arch99,

You asked "why would you want to remarry your X-wife? "

First reason is for the sake of our child.

Second is not based on "reason". There is no "why". Love is not a rational force.

-AD