I hope this works the way I think it does, ha ha. I had an online/phone affair that my husband found out about in Feb. I told him I"d stop and then I didn't. He re-found out in March and I did stop then, broke all contact completely and have truly tried to make amends. The problem is that my husband says he no longer loves me, that he can't forgive me, but that we'll stay together for the sake of our dd, who is 16 months. THen he says that maybe he'll just divorce me and I won't see it coming. The thing is, this truly was a case of not seeing how much I loved him until now. I just had a broken ankle and life threatening blood clots, and then this emotional affair (I never met this man, it was all internet and phone). It was a huge dark cloud, and I felt totally unsupported. NOw he says that he can never love me again, that I am not who I was to him. We have had a rocky marriage for 5+ years, and I never have felt that he loved me. He told me he'd divorce me for things before- and I have threatened to kick him out and divorce him too.The thing is, I don't know what to do!! I have literally begged him to love me- I have been willing to do everything he's asked me to do- I have apologized and cried and begged and pleaded on my knees. I feel like I will never recover. What do I do? It's been 3 months since I cut off contact completely. If I had only stopped in Feb, he might feel differently. He calls me a slut and a ****** and used goods.....what do I do??? I need help....

Hi Mrs. Rob,

Welcome to Marriage Builders.


This isn't working. Time to try something different.

How much studying have you done on MB princples?

First thing...read Surviving An Affair.

Study the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery After An Affair

1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.

If you and your husband want to be in love with each other, you must build your Love Bank accounts. But before you build them, you must be sure there are no leaks in the Love Bank. It's pointless to deposit love units into a sieve, where every deposit is promptly withdrawn by a Love Buster. So you must make a special effort to plug up those leaks by committing yourselves to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness.

The most obvious things spouses do to ruin their love for each other is what I call Love Busters. They are angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, annoying behavior, selfish demands and dishonesty. I describe these destructive habits in my basic concepts, but if you need special help learning how to avoid them, I suggest you read, Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love. This book will help you identify the Love Busters that keep emptying your Love Bank accounts, and show you how to stop inflicting them on each other.

Most of the Q&A columns I've posted on the Marriage Buildersﾮ web site focuses attention on the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). This policy protects both you and your husband from each other thoughtless decisions. Your affair was a blatant example of thoughtlessness on your part because you knew it would hurt your husband, but you went ahead and did it anyway. The Policy of Joint Agreement is a very important guide to helping you keep the Rule of Protection. That's because it helps you realize that anything you do that hurts your husband is off limits to you, regardless of how wonderful it makes you feel.

If you had followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would never have had an affair. But the Policy will also help you avoid hurting each other in a host of other ways, too. My book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, can help you learn how to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, and use it to negotiate agreements that are fair for both of you. Once you learn to negotiate with each other fairly, you will have learned how to follow the Rule of Protection.

2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.

The way to deposit the most love units is to meet a person's most important emotional needs. Your lover did that when he wrote you all those e-mail letters because conversation was your most important emotional need. After one month of filling your Love Bank with thousands of love units that were e-mailed to you, you found him irresistible -- you were in love with him.

Conversation is not your only important emotional need. Affection, recreational companionship, admiration and sexual fulfillment may be some of the other important emotional needs that your lover met. Unless your husband eventually meets your must important needs as well as your lover met them, you will be frustrated and at risk for another affair.

Sometimes a spouse must learn to meet a need that he or she has never been very effective in meeting. Many of the spouses I've counseled have had to learn to be affectionate for the first time in their lives. They also have had to learn to be stimulating conversationalists and skilled lovers. They have had to learn to provide greater financial support, become more effective in their parenting skills and learn to become admiring instead of being critical. New habits that lead to need fulfillment can be learned by anyone. All it takes is a plan and willingness to follow it until expert level is achieved.

But your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs. An important reason that you had an affair was that your husband's work schedule prevented him from giving you the attention you craved from him. When you and your husband agree to follow this second Rule to Recovery, his work schedule will no longer stand between you, because meeting your needs will become your husband's highest priority. All the needs that your lover was meeting for you will be met by your husband in the future.

If you need help identifying and learning how to meet each other's important emotional needs, I suggest you read, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage. It describes the ten most important emotional needs for men and women, and how to become an expert at meeting those needs. When your husband has learned to meet your needs, he will be depositing so many love units that his account in your Love Bank will be overflowing. By then, you will be thoroughly convinced that leaving your lover to rebuild your marriage was the right decision to make.

3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.

You indicated in your letter that it was the lack of your spouse's attention that drove you into the arms of your lover. But it may have been more a lack of time than a lack of attention. As I already mentioned, your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs, but unless he sets aside enough time to do it, all of his skill does you no good at all. It's the man who gives you time for undivided attention who will win your heart.

I suggest that you and your husband plan to spend at least 15 hours each week together, giving each other your undivided attention. Use that time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. I have found that if that amount of time is taken to meet emotional needs, you can spend the rest of your 100 waking hours each week doing just about anything you please, without any risk to your love for each other. But if you do not set aside that time, your good intentions will not buy you a single love unit.

Since most everything we do must be scheduled or we don't do it, I suggest you take about a half an hour each week (say, Sunday afternoon from 3:30 to 4:00) to schedule your time together for the next week. Get out your schedules and write each other into your appointment books. Once scheduled, don't let anything interfere with your time together.

I suggest spending the same days and times together every week because it's easier to remember than a new time each week. Besides, you can be better emotionally prepared to be with each other if you always know that Tuesday evening you will be together from 7 to 10.

I also suggest that you spend time together when you have plenty of energy. Don't give each other the leftovers, give each other the best of yourselves. That's why I generally rule out time together after 11:00 pm. For one thing, you need your sleep for the challenges of the next day, and for another, there are not too many people who are at their best that late at night.

Finally, I suggest that you spread your time out every week, giving each other at least one hour of undivided attention every day. I am generally opposed to cramming all of your time together into a marathon weekend of 15 hours, because undivided attention is required, and 15 hours of anything makes undivided attention almost impossible.

4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.

We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other -- with openness and honesty.

You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.

The Basic Concepts section of this web site contains a section entitled, "the Policy of Radical Honesty." It outlines precisely what the rule of honesty is. It's complete honesty. I want you to read it over very carefully, because it explains precisely how honest you and your husband are to be with each other.

But be careful not to let Love Busters ruin the purity and value of honesty. Keep anger, disrespect and demands out of your honest expression of facts and feelings. If you can do that, you will find your honesty will not only help you find solutions to your problems, but it will also draw you closer together, and help you become the soul-mates that you can be.

If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, and then you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery, I guarantee you that you will have a great marriage. And I also guarantee you that neither of you will ever suffer through an affair again.

BUt he doesn't care! He doesnt' want to try! He's just here for the baby, and thinks I"m no good. He says sometimes he wants to work it out and have a good marriage and then, no kidding in the space of 10 minutes it's "It's no good, I don't love you, there is no hope, I'll probably divorce you." It's up and down. I know I dont' get to set time frames, but it's been 3 months and he says the anger hasn't dissapated at all. Shouldn't he know if he wants to fish or cut bait by now?? I won't leave, I will not divorce him becasue I love him too much. But he may leave at any time. He says I deserve to have uncertainty becasue he can never trust me again. I tell him I'll spend the rest of my life trying to earn his trust, but he says it's impossible. I love him, and I dont' know what to do!! I am willing but he is not. But he hasn't left yet, am I grasping at straws to think that is a good sign? Or am I so desperate that I'll see anything short of his filing for divorce as a good sign? HOw can I make this work if he doesn't want to? I can see one person making a lot of difference in a marriage with attitued and behavior changes in most circumstances, but not with this EA. He's unwilling to see that I had some unfulfilled needs going on, he says that does not justify what I did, and I agree. I want to add that I did go to my ecclesiastical leader and go through a repentance process, which my husband says is great for me and God, but he's human. Oh what to do????? when it's just me, the one who had the affair,who wants to work it out????

Perhaps your H would benefit from reading Surviving an Affair and/or a telephone counseling session.

what are you willing to do?

"even if" your husband does not immediately respond .... what are you willing to do with dedication & consistency & without lovebusters?

are you willing to singlehandedly employ MB concepts to your marriage for a minimum 6 months without complaining that "it's not working" ???

are you willing to do that?

Pep

Is it possible, HE is having an affair????

I have asked if he's having an affair, and he says no. I do believe him.

Pep, I am willing. I have to say, it is hard when I don't know the outcome, but we have a strong religious background also, which helps. I am able to draw him out with that. But I will do whatever I have to. The problem is that I get so emotional and I think that is a lovebuster for him, but if I don't get emotional he thinks I think it was no big deal and that is a lovebuster too! My ecclesiastical leader (bishop) told me just to tell him always how sorry I am and that I love him and to be patient. So I am working on me, I know that no matter what happens I have things to work on.

Our bishop recommended counseling and even said the church would pay for it (I have had some serious medical bills with the aforementioned ankle and blood clot issues), but dh made the appointment and then cancelled it.

Last night was better....I know he vacillates and he is angry at me for putting him in this position. He says he would never have thought I'd do something like this.....well, neither did I!!!

Hi All- please give some advice if you have it, I could really use some support.......I am always walking on eggshells wondering when the next thing will come at me. To make matters.....worse, I guess....he decided that now was the perfect time to buy a house together! THen I get the, "I'm backing out of this, I dont' care if I lose my deposit, I can't trust you...."- after having done this well AFTER my EA stopped! He says he's not looking forward to the new house- but he's also commented that it will be a new start. Last night when I asked him about that he said, "well, I thought I could handle it but I can't." We will get the house, but it should be a happy time and it's not. I told him that if he was willing to stay that we should try to make our marriage the best it could be and that we should do everything we can to be happy. He agreed with it last week, then it of course changes from day to day...

Please, give me the advice and support I need to try to make this marriage work- and be happy.

Thanks!!

Pep, I am willing.

then roll up your sleeves & quit fussing ... you are not attractive when you fuss ... and you'll need to ATTRACT your husband back, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to say, it is hard when I don't know the outcome

and it's hard to raise kids when you don't know the outcome

and its hard to have medical proceedures when you don't know the outcome ... and so on and so on ... and so what?

Good things are usually "hard" at first ....

but we do good things in spite of our anxieties

but we have a strong religious background also, which helps.

wonderful

very good tool

The problem is that I get so emotional and I think that is a lovebuster for him

guess what?

it's a lovebuster for me too !!!

if you stop your whining & calm down, then your focus stops being all about YOU & starts becoming all about saving your marriage ...

are you taking anti-depressants?

ASK your doctor

but if I don't get emotional he thinks I think it was no big deal and that is a lovebuster too!

uh *buzzzzzzz*

wrong answer!

go back to class

if you get all emotional
you lose sight of your HUSBAND'S needs

can you admit that?

when you are emotional it is all about you <~~~ get on medication to control this anxious/depression .. OK sweetie?

My ecclesiastical leader (bishop) told me just to tell him always how sorry I am and that I love him and to be patient.

yezzzzzzzz

wise words

So I am working on me

love it ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know that no matter what happens I have things to work on.

instead of "work on" ... which sounds like cleaning the garage to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

try this word on

you are digging for gold & silver & diamonds inside yourself

so instead of "working on" yourself ... you are on a self-discovery where you dig for hidden treasure

like

courage
faith
patience
loyalty
tenderness
compassion

have you noticed that when you are emotional & frightened, you lose focus on your compassion for others?

it's just a neurological fact ... when you turn on the tears of self pity and "woe is me" ... the ability to give care to others is diminished...

keep talking

and go see your MD

Pep

Dear MrsRob,
I am in a similar situation as your husband. I am the BS and my husband's EA happened in March/April 06. First, it is a roller coaster for us BS. The emotions pour over me like a wave. I think I am ok and that I have figured out a way to move ahead--then the wave comes.

You have to stick with him and allow him to
have the time he needs to heal. Has he answered the emotional needs questionnaire? What are his primary emotional needs? How are you meeting these needs on a day to day basis. It is normal for him to be hot and cold on his feelings about you.

You need basic information from him about how to meet his emotional needs--get that information and then start filling his love bank!

Lake53

FWH--EA 3/06 to 4/06
BW me
DSs ages 12, 14, 16
married 30 years

Mrs Rob

The post from Pep above

100% in agreement - it's terrific advice.

I too had a husband that started out gungho - but the pain got the best of him.

You can do this - but you gotta get YOU under control first so that you can react on the goal of saving the marriage, and not your emotions at that minute...

Your husband is terrified...and like mine, may expect you to leave him anyhow, so is being an A55 to fulfil his own prediction - "If I am mean enough she will leave me just like I predicted she would".

Get yourself in gear and hang on...you CAN do this...

Ask and ye shall receive.

Pep, I have mentioned anti-depressants but dh is totally against me taking them. The problem is I feel like I must cling and be there by him all the time so he sees how sorry I am and that I really love him and I want to make this work. He goes into our bedroom and reads and ignores all the rest of us. Rarely do we do things as a family. YOu are right that it needs to be all about him, but he isn't at all communicative except to call me names.....and he'll "mess around" wink wink nudge nudge, know what I mean?

Lake53, He's not at all about to answer that questionnaire, he doesnt' want to do anything.....perhaps in awhile. I suppose I could guess, but that usually doesnt' turn out well...

Dorry- I think deep down inside he does fear that, though right now the mantra is "you're not worth it, I'm just here for dd."

I know I do need to have patience and love. He hasn't filed yet, even though he's talked about it. He also said he had moved a bunch of stuff into a storage unit, which I found out he didn't. It is definitley coming in waves with him.....

Please keep the advice coming, I will do anything I can- and maybe I'll go on antidepressants for awhile anyways...

Thank you all, your support means so much to me!

He fears he has failed you ... no matter what bullshyt he does ... his big old stomach-eating fear is (drum-roll) ~~~~~> he is not man enough for you .... so, he may over-compensate by machismo methods .... which only makes him feel like a bigger schmuck when he's done

stand up for yourself like a lady

do not allow him to wipe his feet on you ... which serves neither of you

work on your dignity

Pep

Yes, work on my dignity. Very good advice.

Last night was really great. We went down as a family to see the new house- we are supposed to move in 2 or so weeks. Then we stopped at Lowes to look at paint and blinds, and then on home. We had a good night and he cuddled with me- which is how we always slept before. Now sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. And this morning, he reminded me about saying our morning prayers, and usually it's me reminding him.

I am going to the library to check out the LoveBuster books- and also I'm going to check out half.com, they usually have good deals.

What should I say when his mood swings low? Should I just ignore it? I feel like if I'm not there to tell him I"m sorry and I love him then his thoughts just go to all bad when he starts getting like that and he falls further into the abyss. How do I act without seeming like I think it's no big deal or it was his fault in the first place?

Any ideas?

when he is low...ask what you can do for him. If he calls you names, then say - I love you, and I am sorry, and I want to help you, but I cannot while you call me names - stay completely calm and loving while you say it. DO NOT GET emotional when he is emotional...Be his rock during those times. If he wants space during those time, lovingly give him that space...

You must act with love and compasion and calmness...this will help him.

Hi all! Well, I started taking Sarafem, an antidepressant that my dr had recommended for PMS. DH doesnt' know....

He is so back and forth! I'm sure that's normal. I asked if he'd take the EN quiz, he (predictably) said no. He wants it to be all right but then his anger comes right back and it's not all right, and I try to be normal and he's angry at that. If I don't jump when he wants to have "relations" he gets angry. He says that has nothing to do with if we stay together or not. He says he'll just "know" if we should stay together or divorce- but who knows when. I really feel that he's using sex as a weapon (sing that Pat Benetar song...)- becasue if I don't do it he's angry and if he's angry he'll feel like it's not worth it and he'll "know" we should divorce.....if I"m not perfect....

I get sad reading here about all these BH's who really want their marriages to work and are willing to do a plan A. Becasue even though I am totally in the wrong here and made an absolutely wrong choice that I will regret for the rest of my life (I cant' even imaging how people who had PA's feel), there were still things in my marriage- my EN's- that weren't being met, and are still not being met. But you know what, there is time for that, and right now it's about him. I was selfish already and now need to try to make that as right as possible.

Any more words of wisdom will be much appreciated- I ordered His Need/ Her Needs and LoveBusters.....

Thanks!

Mrs Rob

The main problem I have right now with my W is that I don't feel "wanted" by her. I'm not sure how much of it is my insecurity in this area that has all but consumed me after finding about the A or how much of it is her really not wanting me. Probably she doesn't feel "in the mood" because she detects my insecurity... This cycle can just get worse and worse if you let it.

All I know is that it hurts *bad* to think of her even flirting and coming onto someone else when she either rejects me, is "ho hum" about the idea, or even subtly avoids the situation. It just brings on waves of negative emotions. The best thing my W could do for me would be to just go all out to show me she really wants to be with ME.

I'm plan A'ing as hard as I can though. I acknowlege her complaints and try to never argue with her about them. She's trying harder too but I can't seem to shake off this feeling. I hope your H does start trying in these areas for you.

Sorry if I missed this but if you are not in counselling I think you are making a mistake. We tried to just move on wihtout it and a year later I found my W betraying me again. There are things that need to be said to both of you that you cannot say to each other (IMHO)

Mrsrob,

I would suggest reading Dorry's thread on WW's.

I Know she posted the link for you.

I can tell you that I read it and I am a BS and If my FWW would have followed Dorry's advice we would be in a much better place right now.

Quite honestly it is one of the best posts I have seen.

You will have a lot of anger coming your way. It is like a roller coaster. In the beggining the ups and downs are fast and furious. As time goes by they are spaced farther apart but they will come.

You have an opportunity because what he is saying doesn't match what he is doing. If he wanted to leave you he would have already. Or at least he is not 100% sure he wants to leave.

It is harder to leave when you are seeing progress then it is when you aren't. Show him progress and it will make it harder for him to leave.

Print up dorry's post and start trying what she suggests.

OK, need more help- interpretation-

Hurtingless, I did read Dorry's WW post, and am implementing it and following the advice.

But here's the thing, just last night he told me he didn't care if our marriage worked out, he could never trust me again, and he doesn't think he loves me. He says he's been giving it time but just doesn't think it will work out. He says I'm a bad person and nothing can help it. Now he says he doesnt' want to have s*x becasue I "confuse him." But after his telling me all that, I told him how sorry I was and how much I loved him and how it's only been 3 months and please don't give up on me. I am making progress with myself, but I don't know if he sees it or if it even makes a difference to him now. Then we made love! Even though he said he didn't want to, he really did. Then after I tried to get him to tell me that he loved me, even a little, and he said, "N, don't coerce this." I told him he was right and apologized. Then we snuggled together all night while we were sleeping.

Do you think he says what he says about it not working out to hear me say that I love him and I'm sorry and that I'll always beg his forgiveness for hurting him and our family the way I did? So that he can hear that I am truly sorry? Or does he mean it one second and then doesnt' mean it the next?

I almost feel like he never really loved me enough or else he'd be able to start forgiving me. I feel that his telling me he thinks it will never work out is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, can I make this work all by myself if he doesn't care about it? Maybe I can. I am not making light of what I did, but I never met the OM in person. I know the biggie for my DH is that he caught me in Feb and I told him I'd have NC and then I didn't and he "re-caught" me in March. He won't come to this site and I of course cant' tell him that what I did is pretty normal. He "doesnt' want to hear about other people, he's not other people." I got that when I told him that a majority of couples who go through an A do stay married. I cry every day for the totally wrong decisions I made. He does not understand the "fog" concept. And it's funny that it's called a fog here- my bishop at church called it a mist of darkness.

Please, othe BS's, please tell me what he might be thinking. I love him so. I wish he loved me enough, but maybe it's not there. And there's this new house, which he initiated a couple months AFTER he found out about the EA again in March. He tells me he's just not excited about anything and I'm ruining it for him. I think that is so unfair, as he knew what went on before the house thing and he totally is doing the whole thing- even choosing the house.

What do y'all think????

HELP!!

It's not that he doesn't "love" you enough, its just that his HURT is greater than his love can be right now. An affair DESTROYS feelings of love. An affair is as PAINFUL as the death of a child, except the pain is intentionally inflicted. That cannot be swept under the rug. It will take 1 to 2 years for him to recover.

An affair is RUINOUS to one's love bank. For me, it took almost a YEAR of continous lovebank deposits to even not feel DISGUSTED at my H. I did not feel like I wanted him afterwards. But, he hung in there and did the hard work and eventually my feelings came back.

This is what you will have to do if you want to get him back. Do your best to make sure he feels loved and WANTED. The affair made him feel UNWANTED and UNDESIRED. It will take a consistent demonstration from you to undo that damage.



He doesn't need to understand the fog concept becasue it is completely irrelevant to the issue. It is not an excuse to have an affar.


Having an affair is not normal. It is the cruelest betrayal a spouse can commit. It will take alot of hard work on your part to rebuild the trust necessary to sustain a marriage and undo the damage you caused. You can expect him to be depressed for several months, often peaking around 8-9 months.

So, hang tight and work hard, MrsRob! You have a hard road ahead of you, but the benefits can be great if you stick to it!

Did you end all contact with the OM? Did you send a no contact letter? Have you opened up your life to him by giving him passwords, putting a keylogger on your computer, etc?

If the affair happened on the computer, that is probably a very dangerous place for you to be. How can he be assured you aren't still pursuing internet affairs?

If he's feeling anything like what I am, then one minute he loves you and he can forgive you. Those are the times that your life is getting back to "normal". Then there are times when he's feeling like he loves you and then all of a sudden something happens--a trigger--that makes him feel all of the hurt and betrayel that is still inside of him. It makes him hate you--hate the OM--hate himself. It makes him doubt who he is in EVERY WAY. It makes him believe that he's not "good enough". It makes him lash out at you because he cannot handle the myriad of emotions that are swirling through him at that time.

Three months isn't a long time MrsRob. If you love your husband, then don't give up on him. What he wants more than anything is to KNOW that you will stick with him even though he's acting like an a**hole! You lost his trust and respect and now you have to earn it back. It's going to be hard, but if you love him enough to do the work then I'm sure it will be worth it.

Those are just some of the things that I feel anyway. I hope it helps.

HU2006

Melody Lane, you are right, a fog is no excuse and an affair is not normal. Yes, I ended all contact with OM- no contact letter and all. And yes the affair happened on the computer and phone. I gave him passwords and I cannot check the voice mails or the call activity on the phone or cell phone. I am rarely on the computer at home, and it is in the family room and I only do it when he is around.

The thing is, I am so afraid that he'll just divorce me and not give me the time it will take me to show him how much I love him and to fill his love bank. I am so willing to hang in there for as long as it takes and put myself and my needs aside for his to show him that I want him and our marriage. But he could just end it tomorrow if he wanted. I know what- I think it was Pep-said, you do things without knowing the outcomes anyway. But I'm so scared!!!!

He hasn't done it yet, though, and the things he said that he did do- moving some things into his own storage shed, making plans to transfer out of state with his job- he did not really do. Will he be able to have some sort of recovery if he refuses counseling or even reading any books??

Did you feel like you didn't love your husband any more? Sometimes he says he doent' love me and then sometimes he says maybe somewhere there's some love, he's not sure. I know right now he's staying for our 16 month old daughter. If it weren't for her he would have divorced me already. He told me long ago before we were married that if I ever did anything to be unfaithful I would no longer be worth it and I'd be "in a box."

I would give anything to go back and tell my DH how I was feeling instead of making these wrong and hurtful choices.

HU2006, thanks for the words of wisdom. He will not really talk to me about his feelings, except that I'm a w***e and not worth it and I've ruined everything for him. I know 3 months isn't long. I just hope he hangs in there longer too. ANd I hope that when we have recovered, I will be a better person because of it, and with a better marriage (our marriage was really pretty bad before) even though this isnt' the way it should have been.

Please keep advice coming!!

He is probably telling you it is worse than it really is to scare you a bit because he is so wounded. He feels like a chump for staying with you, but showing him that you are remorseful and do desire him will help assuage those feelings. If he really wanted to be gone, he would be gone, MrsRob.

None of us has any guarantees in life. We just have to deal with what IS. There is nothing we can say to make him NOT leave or make you not scared. But I suspect he has no intention of going anywhere or he would have already. Just stay persistent.

MrsRob,

The major issue is your betrayal, closely followed by the lies and deceit.

Betrayal: You have gutted your H. Men are creatures who own things. The things they own are theirs and they do not share certain things (Wives are #1 non shareable item). Other guys will castigate another man for weakness. Men view a wandering wayward wife as a man's weakness and that man will surely lose face and status because of that. Add on everything else the Harley's say about the hurt and pain of an affair and there you have it. Nothing you could have done would have hurt your H more and I mean nothing. His parents or one of your children dying is not nearly as devastating because you chose to do this, it was not an accident, it was not God's will.

Lies and Deceit: The one person your H could trust above all others, the one person who knows his deepest secrets has not only betrayed him, but lied and decieved him as well. Another major blow to his ego and cut off at the knees in the eyes of his peers. He has obviously lost your respect, but now he has lost the respect of his peers, subordinates, as well as his superiors. You job, should you choose to accept it is to fix what you chose to destroy.

You need to make sure he knows how sorry you are, that you are repentent, you have serious regrets for the hurt and damage you have chosen to cause (not because you got caught!), remorse for the damage and pain you chose to inflict on him, guilt for choosing to devastate the one you were supposed to love and cherish, forsaking all others till death do you part. He needs to know what you are going to do to make sure this will not happen again. What is your plan for recovery? What is you plan for your future with him? What will you do to help him heal and feel safe? Why did this happen and what are you going to do to find out how you let yourself choose this path of destruction.

Good Luck and God Bless! You will need both!

Mel,

I disagree with "if he was going to leave he would be gone already." He may be waiting and trying to do as much as he can until he feels he has done everything he can do and then leave with no regrets, knowing he gave it everything he had and it wasn't going to work.

MrsRob needs to understand that there are consequences and she is feeling them now, for her choices and one of those consequences is she may well find herself in court and if she is not in a 50/50 state she will lose a lot.

This is very true, Eagle. There just are no guarantees. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Eagle- Wow, harsh, but I know you speak the truth. I wonder if he's just "enduring" and will finally just leave becasue even if I do change and show him that I love him and try to earn his trust back it will not be enough. I have to say that you don't leave room for much hope. I mean, I guess he can have his own version of "doing everything he can do" before he leaves, but right now he is not doing anything to try to make our marriage work. I am not saying he should be, mind you, that is for me to do right now, I know, but I think if he were doing everything possible so he could leave with no regrets I'd see more and then he would see that it is possible to work things out. I do think that if he were going to leave he would have. ALso, he's already been divorced in our state, and knows how things generally go for the men here, and he said basically he'd move out of state, pay daycare and child support and rarely see our dd. He would not fight for custody. Also, I make much more money than he does- he cannot afford this new house without me, and he of course knows this. He's made comments like "Of course I'm staying, I'm buying a house, aren't I??" The house is in his name only, and I will not even be on the deed. He's also asked for a "post-nup" in which I confess my adultery and state that I will not ask for any equity in our home for the next 10 years. I have agreed to this. The other day I made the comment that "it's your house, you make that decision," and he said, "it's our house, but I'll deny I said that in court if needed." So he gives me hope and then he takes it away. Which I fully agree is normal and I deserve it.

Luckily none of his co-workers know, and only a couple of people at my work know about it. He really has no close friends, and that is probably a bad thing right now. Not that he'd talk about it, but he'd have something to do other than think about how awful I am. He was working nights and was home all day just stewing about my A, but now he's working days and the older kids are at home for the summer, so he's busy. He said last night, "I don't even want to do things with you anymore." But truth be told, we never did much anyways. We were always- and I mean always- fighting.

I sometimes wonder if our age difference is a problem- he's 15 yrs older. Sometimes I think that makes him stay- he's too exhausted to want to try dating again at his age (50)- but sometimes he says, "I should find someone to trust and to love in my old age. I thought it was you, but obviously not."

Rambling today, full of feelings......

You know, this is a bunch of crap. There is no reason you should sacrifice your financial security for his pride. You DON'T DESERVE THAT. Sure, you had an affair, but that does not entitle him to rob you of your financial security or punish you. Your name should be on the deed and you should not sign the post-nup.

I would sit down with him and lovingly, but firmly, tell him that you are willing to do what it takes to repair the damage frm the affair. You are committed to him and your marriage and want to restore trust. You love him with all your heart and fully intend on being with him for the rest of your days. Because of that, your name needs to be on the deed. And you will have no part of a post nup. IF you can't buy that house as a MARRIED COUPLE, then you can't help finance it as a MARRIED PERSON.

Being the victim of an affair does not entitle one to be a bully, nor does it oblige you to do penance that involves forfeiture of your home.

Are you on the mortgage? Don't you have to be on the mortgage since you are helping pay the mortgage? How can he leave you off the deed? Is that possible?

Hi Mrs Rob :

I see you are getting some good advice from some great people. I just wanted to give you some hope since I read your posts.

Men are different than women. Most women are bothered by emotional affairs more than physical affairs, while most men and I mean a huge majority are hurt more by physical affairs. There are exceptions to these rules but the point is statistics are in your favor.

In my case if my wife had an affair like yours I would have been hurt but nothing like I was due to her PA. I would have been hurt and angry I am sure but it would have been easier to overcome. Now a physical affair for a man is devastating to a man’s ego. I feel her PA defines me as a man that could not keep his wife happy (like I am not really a man). I feel used since she was not working and so she was shopping spending my money and boinking a guy on the side. In my case I lost all love for my wife and we will end up going our separate ways. But I can assure you if her affair would have been only emotional I could overcome that. I don’t want to minimize your affair but in my case it would have made it possible to forgive you.

The good news is as long as it was not physical I think you stand a better chance. It will take a while to get your husband to trust you and believe you want to be with him. The lies and deceit hurt but I think they can be overcome. You have a lot of work ahead of you but if you prove yourself I think you can survive this.

Yes, I will be on the deed, but then I will quit-claim it. The funny thing is, I'm a branch manager at a mortgage company and I'm getting him the loan. But the thing is, this "post-nup"- he just wants me to write it up and sign it-not with a lawyer or anything- and the quit claim, he is just going to copy a form he signed for his ex-wife's house, and he doesn't know to file it with the court. SO I will in all actuality be fine, but he will see that I am doing all he asked.

I know I brought all this on myself, but I just think so differently from him! If he had an A, I would beat myself up about what I did to cause him to feel like he had to do that, and what could I do to keep him, and make our marriage better. I told him that awhile ago, and his response was, "well, aren't you just a better person than me." His reaction is just- you f****d me and my daughter, and you're a w***e and not worth it and who cares if I could have done better in our marriage, you're the one with all the problems and if it weren't for you life would be good. He has never acknowledged my needs or feelings....but I am digressing because none of that matters right now, what matters is that I focus on his needs right now and dig for my own treasures in myself.

I Had Enough- I sure hope you're right......he does say he loves me at night and when I go to work in the morning, and we do pray together morning and night, and I am making it a point to spend lots of time together, more than we ever did before.......

I really want it to work. I am hoping the new house- where it's not "the scene of the crime," will help....

But why are you doing UNREASONABLE things that he asks? What if he asks you to jump off a cliff? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

MrsRob, have you done everything you can to be transparent? Since you betrayed him a second time; he is really going to have a hard time trusting you. Maybe you could install a software keylogger on your computer and have him set up the password. That way he can be 100% assured that nothing is happening any more. I hope he will start to come around, I hope you get in counselling too.

MrsRob,

there is plenty of room for hope and you can do it, it will be very hard and a very long road. You need to be prepared and know the facts. Then impart the facts to your H.

He does have his own version of "everything I can do is done." Your actions will have a direct affect on his version. He should eb working on this with you, not watching you work. This process, MB principles, works and works extremely well, IF, and I do mean ONLY IF, both of you are working together to rebuild. He needs to take an active role here.

Please review POJA and PORH, they are very important and you need his buy in on these issues. Regain his trust using the MB stuff, POJA PORH, Total Transparency, Total Honesty and openess. You did win him once you can win him again.

Things could be worse, I am the BH and I am trying to win WW back. Think about that, you are in a better position and you can do this. It would really help if he had someone to talk to, even an IC. One of my co-workers is going through the same thing I am and we have helped each other immensly.

Hang in there! You can be an MB success story, it just takes time, patience, and perserverence.

Good Luck! Hang in there!

He says, "I can't stop you from doing anything. You'll do what you want to do." Maybe he really doesnt' care. Maybe it's not just reaction to my EA, maybe he truly doesnt' love me anymore. But he still buys me my fave soda, makes dinner, snuggles most nights, makes love (although he says I'm a f*** pig right now. Nice.) It's hard to prove a negative, right? I know I will never do this again., I know the consequences are not what I want, right Eagle? There are always consequences, though, and he will have consequences for what he does to me, too. He has said that to me-- I am being so mean and hard on you that you might not want our marriage when I'm done being mad. But right now I want it no matter what.

Melody, I do the unreasonable things because I dont' want to lose him and I feel like he should get to ask anything of me because of what I did.

oh ok, Hope he doesn't ask you to jump off a cliff! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

LOL, yes I know. He is doing a number on me at times, too. I guess I just want him to stay and love me so badly that I'm willing to put up with a lot right now. Also, he is not the only one who can file for divorce. If I need to I can. I just don't need to right now. If I do all these things then he's bound to love me again, right??? I know, pathetic. But I love him and will do what it takes. If anyone ends it it will be him.

I don't think he will love you more if you act like a doormat and cater to unreasonable demands. It is not love inspiring, AS YOU CAN SEE. But if you want to put up with all that, I guess you are a volunteer, huh?

"Melody, I do the unreasonable things because I dont' want to lose him and I feel like he should get to ask anything of me because of what I did."

I want to add that he can ask but you do have the right to decline.

To take advantage of the A to get what he wants is manipulation. That is not forgiveness this is not asking for you to make amends. This may be punishment.

I am not saying it is or it isn't but be wary that there may come a time that you start resenting what he has asked you to do.

There is nothing love building about making yourself available to be manipulated and abused. It won't make him love you, it will just make him more eager to exploit you.

I know- his actions toward me make him feel bad about himself- and in a twisted kind of way, I hope that they "even out" the moral playing field. I want him to see that I am in this for the long haul- he has accused me of being "short-term." So I need to prove to him that I'm in this for the long haul. It's just so hard as I don't know what I'm coming home to. He has had 2 opportunities to move out of state with his job and has not gone, he can move out at any time and rent a room with someone he works with (there's a notice board at his work, it's not like he's looked into it, he just knows it's there)- and he hasn't done it. He still participates with my children (his step-children), although that has never been really all that much it hasn't decreased. He talks about Santa bringing a Playstation 3 to them for Christmas, we're buying this house.......and I'm hoping that he'll spend more time with the family in the new house, instead of just disappearing to our bedroom for the evening- which he did even before my EA.

I think really it is what someone (I'm sorry, I forget who, I'll look back and see) said- he feels like a chump for not just leaving me, but he really wants it to work out but he really wants me to pay but he really doesn't know if he'll ever be able to trust me but he really doens't know.....etc.

Ah what a confusing day I am having.....

"and he will have consequences for what he does to me, too. He has said that to me-- I am being so mean and hard on you that you might not want our marriage when I'm done being mad. But right now I want it no matter what."

Well I am going to call you out then. There is no getting even here.

There is an easy way to do this and that is to let him treat you like crap until you feel as though you guys are now even.

The hard way is for you to make up, for lack of a better term, by doing positive things for him filling his EN's etc.

From the outside looking in it seems like his lovebank is empty based on your EA. Instead of filling it up in a positive way you are letting him drain your Love bank.

So you will have two people with empty love banks if this continues. I don't understand how that will strengthen a M.

Hurtingless, wise words. I have ordered LoveBusters and hope to get it soon.

I just dont' know if he will be able to recover much if he's not willing to do some work also.

But I can only change me.

MrsRob,

Plan A him. Treat him the way you would want to be treated if the roles were reversed. Do not be a doormat, open and be open to discussions, if he asks something you don't want to do, discuss it. Also try counseling with the Harleys, they have this stuff down to a fine science and will be able to help you and your H.

His anger, while understandable is not acceptable. I think if you both show respect for each other things will improve. I feel that you will ahve to be the first to show repect in some major ways and he will start to come around.

Make sure you are available to him at all times, cell phone, spending time together (recommended 15 hrs or more per week), etc... Guage your responses to his outbursts and anger in a respectful and loving way. Please try very hard to not LB, this is my biggest downfall and it will hurt rather than help.

Continue with your efforts they are comendable and you are making efforts most WSs wouldn't think or try for months. You are worth working hard for, as is he. He knows this, but is still out of it. Please remember 1 mistake does not make a person or a life. You can recover from this mistake and you will recover, it just takes time.

Call out for LA and ask her about the owning your own village thread. You are getting some wonderful advice from the pro's here, not me, but Mel and the others.

I wish you sucess in your journey. Hang in there.

Thanks Eagle. DH is not at all interested in couseling, so that makes me wonder if he will be able to recover. I am reading reading reading, so maybe he'll pick up a book- or maybe the changes in me will be enough.

I will hang in there. I love him.

Mrs,

Have you read Dorry's thread for FWW's?

The other thing I will tell you is don't assume anything.

What I mean by that is do not assume that what you are doing is right. Make sure you know his EN's and start filling those. You may be working but you might not be working on the part that is broken.

If you are unclear ask him what his wants, needs and desires are.

You may think you are filling an EN that is important only to find out it wasn't important to him. IE you may think x is important so you keep trying to meet it only to find out x was important at all. In all reality y was important and if you spent the same time and energy filling y as you did x you would have more deposits.

Do not become a doormat it will only lead to bad things.

Hurtingless- you're right. But I will have to take the EN quiz for him becasue he won't, I already asked. The funny thing- he's got a degree in Psychology!! But he "tried counseling with my ex and it didn't work." But she didn't go! I would go. But now he won't. "Been there, done that, got that T-shirt." he says.

I need to show him how much I love him. But only if it's the things that he needs, not the things I think he needs. I think this is one of the problems I have had in our marriage. The things he does for me, while nice, are the things HE wants to do for me, not the things I want him to do. So he could totally be feeling the same.

I called my insurance company about counseling. I'm going to start some IC soon. The funny thing is, I was doing some IC last October, but DH found out and made fun of me and told me now he'd REALLY never go to MC. Of course, for 5 years he'd been saying he'd never go, now that I went to IC he really wouldnt'? That's manipulative if I ever heard it...

Then I broke my ankle in 7 places and had the life threatening blood clots and I felt like he was not there for me at all and and and....

I do cry every day for the pain and suffering I have caused him whom I love so much.

Mrsrob,

Did you look at Dorry's thread for FWW's?

If not look at it and study it. She has laid out a perfect blueprint.

You cannot force him into doing things. You can however invite him to come along. You can make the invitation more attractive the more EN's of his you fill.

Yes, I have printed that out and am studying it to death! You are right about making staying married to me look attractive. Sometime- lots of times- in the past it probably wasn't such a great prospect.

He said that he would "just know" if he should leave me- that he would wake up in the morning and just know it wasnt' working out. I wonder if he'll just wake up one day and know he should stay.

Good,

Then go to work on it.

He may wake up one morning thinking he wants to stay another day and that day may turn into the rest of your life.

I will check in on you but there are others much more qualified then I to guide you through this.

Seek out other FWW's that are farther along then you because their advice will help you the most.

For me I wish my FWW took the same steps as others here. If she did we would be much further along.