I hope this works the way I think it does, ha ha. I had an online/phone affair that my husband found out about in Feb. I told him I"d stop and then I didn't. He re-found out in March and I did stop then, broke all contact completely and have truly tried to make amends. The problem is that my husband says he no longer loves me, that he can't forgive me, but that we'll stay together for the sake of our dd, who is 16 months. THen he says that maybe he'll just divorce me and I won't see it coming. The thing is, this truly was a case of not seeing how much I loved him until now. I just had a broken ankle and life threatening blood clots, and then this emotional affair (I never met this man, it was all internet and phone). It was a huge dark cloud, and I felt totally unsupported. NOw he says that he can never love me again, that I am not who I was to him. We have had a rocky marriage for 5+ years, and I never have felt that he loved me. He told me he'd divorce me for things before- and I have threatened to kick him out and divorce him too.The thing is, I don't know what to do!! I have literally begged him to love me- I have been willing to do everything he's asked me to do- I have apologized and cried and begged and pleaded on my knees. I feel like I will never recover. What do I do? It's been 3 months since I cut off contact completely. If I had only stopped in Feb, he might feel differently. He calls me a slut and a ****** and used goods.....what do I do??? I need help....

Hi Mrs. Rob,

Welcome to Marriage Builders.


This isn't working. Time to try something different.

How much studying have you done on MB princples?

First thing...read Surviving An Affair.

Study the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery After An Affair

1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.

If you and your husband want to be in love with each other, you must build your Love Bank accounts. But before you build them, you must be sure there are no leaks in the Love Bank. It's pointless to deposit love units into a sieve, where every deposit is promptly withdrawn by a Love Buster. So you must make a special effort to plug up those leaks by committing yourselves to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness.

The most obvious things spouses do to ruin their love for each other is what I call Love Busters. They are angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, annoying behavior, selfish demands and dishonesty. I describe these destructive habits in my basic concepts, but if you need special help learning how to avoid them, I suggest you read, Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love. This book will help you identify the Love Busters that keep emptying your Love Bank accounts, and show you how to stop inflicting them on each other.

Most of the Q&A columns I've posted on the Marriage Buildersﾮ web site focuses attention on the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). This policy protects both you and your husband from each other thoughtless decisions. Your affair was a blatant example of thoughtlessness on your part because you knew it would hurt your husband, but you went ahead and did it anyway. The Policy of Joint Agreement is a very important guide to helping you keep the Rule of Protection. That's because it helps you realize that anything you do that hurts your husband is off limits to you, regardless of how wonderful it makes you feel.

If you had followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would never have had an affair. But the Policy will also help you avoid hurting each other in a host of other ways, too. My book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, can help you learn how to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, and use it to negotiate agreements that are fair for both of you. Once you learn to negotiate with each other fairly, you will have learned how to follow the Rule of Protection.

2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.

The way to deposit the most love units is to meet a person's most important emotional needs. Your lover did that when he wrote you all those e-mail letters because conversation was your most important emotional need. After one month of filling your Love Bank with thousands of love units that were e-mailed to you, you found him irresistible -- you were in love with him.

Conversation is not your only important emotional need. Affection, recreational companionship, admiration and sexual fulfillment may be some of the other important emotional needs that your lover met. Unless your husband eventually meets your must important needs as well as your lover met them, you will be frustrated and at risk for another affair.

Sometimes a spouse must learn to meet a need that he or she has never been very effective in meeting. Many of the spouses I've counseled have had to learn to be affectionate for the first time in their lives. They also have had to learn to be stimulating conversationalists and skilled lovers. They have had to learn to provide greater financial support, become more effective in their parenting skills and learn to become admiring instead of being critical. New habits that lead to need fulfillment can be learned by anyone. All it takes is a plan and willingness to follow it until expert level is achieved.

But your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs. An important reason that you had an affair was that your husband's work schedule prevented him from giving you the attention you craved from him. When you and your husband agree to follow this second Rule to Recovery, his work schedule will no longer stand between you, because meeting your needs will become your husband's highest priority. All the needs that your lover was meeting for you will be met by your husband in the future.

If you need help identifying and learning how to meet each other's important emotional needs, I suggest you read, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage. It describes the ten most important emotional needs for men and women, and how to become an expert at meeting those needs. When your husband has learned to meet your needs, he will be depositing so many love units that his account in your Love Bank will be overflowing. By then, you will be thoroughly convinced that leaving your lover to rebuild your marriage was the right decision to make.

3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.

You indicated in your letter that it was the lack of your spouse's attention that drove you into the arms of your lover. But it may have been more a lack of time than a lack of attention. As I already mentioned, your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs, but unless he sets aside enough time to do it, all of his skill does you no good at all. It's the man who gives you time for undivided attention who will win your heart.

I suggest that you and your husband plan to spend at least 15 hours each week together, giving each other your undivided attention. Use that time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. I have found that if that amount of time is taken to meet emotional needs, you can spend the rest of your 100 waking hours each week doing just about anything you please, without any risk to your love for each other. But if you do not set aside that time, your good intentions will not buy you a single love unit.

Since most everything we do must be scheduled or we don't do it, I suggest you take about a half an hour each week (say, Sunday afternoon from 3:30 to 4:00) to schedule your time together for the next week. Get out your schedules and write each other into your appointment books. Once scheduled, don't let anything interfere with your time together.

I suggest spending the same days and times together every week because it's easier to remember than a new time each week. Besides, you can be better emotionally prepared to be with each other if you always know that Tuesday evening you will be together from 7 to 10.

I also suggest that you spend time together when you have plenty of energy. Don't give each other the leftovers, give each other the best of yourselves. That's why I generally rule out time together after 11:00 pm. For one thing, you need your sleep for the challenges of the next day, and for another, there are not too many people who are at their best that late at night.

Finally, I suggest that you spread your time out every week, giving each other at least one hour of undivided attention every day. I am generally opposed to cramming all of your time together into a marathon weekend of 15 hours, because undivided attention is required, and 15 hours of anything makes undivided attention almost impossible.

4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.

We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other -- with openness and honesty.

You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.

The Basic Concepts section of this web site contains a section entitled, "the Policy of Radical Honesty." It outlines precisely what the rule of honesty is. It's complete honesty. I want you to read it over very carefully, because it explains precisely how honest you and your husband are to be with each other.

But be careful not to let Love Busters ruin the purity and value of honesty. Keep anger, disrespect and demands out of your honest expression of facts and feelings. If you can do that, you will find your honesty will not only help you find solutions to your problems, but it will also draw you closer together, and help you become the soul-mates that you can be.

If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, and then you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery, I guarantee you that you will have a great marriage. And I also guarantee you that neither of you will ever suffer through an affair again.

BUt he doesn't care! He doesnt' want to try! He's just here for the baby, and thinks I"m no good. He says sometimes he wants to work it out and have a good marriage and then, no kidding in the space of 10 minutes it's "It's no good, I don't love you, there is no hope, I'll probably divorce you." It's up and down. I know I dont' get to set time frames, but it's been 3 months and he says the anger hasn't dissapated at all. Shouldn't he know if he wants to fish or cut bait by now?? I won't leave, I will not divorce him becasue I love him too much. But he may leave at any time. He says I deserve to have uncertainty becasue he can never trust me again. I tell him I'll spend the rest of my life trying to earn his trust, but he says it's impossible. I love him, and I dont' know what to do!! I am willing but he is not. But he hasn't left yet, am I grasping at straws to think that is a good sign? Or am I so desperate that I'll see anything short of his filing for divorce as a good sign? HOw can I make this work if he doesn't want to? I can see one person making a lot of difference in a marriage with attitued and behavior changes in most circumstances, but not with this EA. He's unwilling to see that I had some unfulfilled needs going on, he says that does not justify what I did, and I agree. I want to add that I did go to my ecclesiastical leader and go through a repentance process, which my husband says is great for me and God, but he's human. Oh what to do????? when it's just me, the one who had the affair,who wants to work it out????

Perhaps your H would benefit from reading Surviving an Affair and/or a telephone counseling session.

what are you willing to do?

"even if" your husband does not immediately respond .... what are you willing to do with dedication & consistency & without lovebusters?

are you willing to singlehandedly employ MB concepts to your marriage for a minimum 6 months without complaining that "it's not working" ???

are you willing to do that?

Pep

Is it possible, HE is having an affair????

I have asked if he's having an affair, and he says no. I do believe him.

Pep, I am willing. I have to say, it is hard when I don't know the outcome, but we have a strong religious background also, which helps. I am able to draw him out with that. But I will do whatever I have to. The problem is that I get so emotional and I think that is a lovebuster for him, but if I don't get emotional he thinks I think it was no big deal and that is a lovebuster too! My ecclesiastical leader (bishop) told me just to tell him always how sorry I am and that I love him and to be patient. So I am working on me, I know that no matter what happens I have things to work on.

Our bishop recommended counseling and even said the church would pay for it (I have had some serious medical bills with the aforementioned ankle and blood clot issues), but dh made the appointment and then cancelled it.

Last night was better....I know he vacillates and he is angry at me for putting him in this position. He says he would never have thought I'd do something like this.....well, neither did I!!!

Hi All- please give some advice if you have it, I could really use some support.......I am always walking on eggshells wondering when the next thing will come at me. To make matters.....worse, I guess....he decided that now was the perfect time to buy a house together! THen I get the, "I'm backing out of this, I dont' care if I lose my deposit, I can't trust you...."- after having done this well AFTER my EA stopped! He says he's not looking forward to the new house- but he's also commented that it will be a new start. Last night when I asked him about that he said, "well, I thought I could handle it but I can't." We will get the house, but it should be a happy time and it's not. I told him that if he was willing to stay that we should try to make our marriage the best it could be and that we should do everything we can to be happy. He agreed with it last week, then it of course changes from day to day...

Please, give me the advice and support I need to try to make this marriage work- and be happy.

Thanks!!

Pep, I am willing.

then roll up your sleeves & quit fussing ... you are not attractive when you fuss ... and you'll need to ATTRACT your husband back, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to say, it is hard when I don't know the outcome

and it's hard to raise kids when you don't know the outcome

and its hard to have medical proceedures when you don't know the outcome ... and so on and so on ... and so what?

Good things are usually "hard" at first ....

but we do good things in spite of our anxieties

but we have a strong religious background also, which helps.

wonderful

very good tool

The problem is that I get so emotional and I think that is a lovebuster for him

guess what?

it's a lovebuster for me too !!!

if you stop your whining & calm down, then your focus stops being all about YOU & starts becoming all about saving your marriage ...

are you taking anti-depressants?

ASK your doctor

but if I don't get emotional he thinks I think it was no big deal and that is a lovebuster too!

uh *buzzzzzzz*

wrong answer!

go back to class

if you get all emotional
you lose sight of your HUSBAND'S needs

can you admit that?

when you are emotional it is all about you <~~~ get on medication to control this anxious/depression .. OK sweetie?

My ecclesiastical leader (bishop) told me just to tell him always how sorry I am and that I love him and to be patient.

yezzzzzzzz

wise words

So I am working on me

love it ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know that no matter what happens I have things to work on.

instead of "work on" ... which sounds like cleaning the garage to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

try this word on

you are digging for gold & silver & diamonds inside yourself

so instead of "working on" yourself ... you are on a self-discovery where you dig for hidden treasure

like

courage
faith
patience
loyalty
tenderness
compassion

have you noticed that when you are emotional & frightened, you lose focus on your compassion for others?

it's just a neurological fact ... when you turn on the tears of self pity and "woe is me" ... the ability to give care to others is diminished...

keep talking

and go see your MD

Pep

Dear MrsRob,
I am in a similar situation as your husband. I am the BS and my husband's EA happened in March/April 06. First, it is a roller coaster for us BS. The emotions pour over me like a wave. I think I am ok and that I have figured out a way to move ahead--then the wave comes.

You have to stick with him and allow him to
have the time he needs to heal. Has he answered the emotional needs questionnaire? What are his primary emotional needs? How are you meeting these needs on a day to day basis. It is normal for him to be hot and cold on his feelings about you.

You need basic information from him about how to meet his emotional needs--get that information and then start filling his love bank!

Lake53

FWH--EA 3/06 to 4/06
BW me
DSs ages 12, 14, 16
married 30 years

Mrs Rob

The post from Pep above

100% in agreement - it's terrific advice.

I too had a husband that started out gungho - but the pain got the best of him.

You can do this - but you gotta get YOU under control first so that you can react on the goal of saving the marriage, and not your emotions at that minute...

Your husband is terrified...and like mine, may expect you to leave him anyhow, so is being an A55 to fulfil his own prediction - "If I am mean enough she will leave me just like I predicted she would".

Get yourself in gear and hang on...you CAN do this...

Ask and ye shall receive.

Pep, I have mentioned anti-depressants but dh is totally against me taking them. The problem is I feel like I must cling and be there by him all the time so he sees how sorry I am and that I really love him and I want to make this work. He goes into our bedroom and reads and ignores all the rest of us. Rarely do we do things as a family. YOu are right that it needs to be all about him, but he isn't at all communicative except to call me names.....and he'll "mess around" wink wink nudge nudge, know what I mean?

Lake53, He's not at all about to answer that questionnaire, he doesnt' want to do anything.....perhaps in awhile. I suppose I could guess, but that usually doesnt' turn out well...

Dorry- I think deep down inside he does fear that, though right now the mantra is "you're not worth it, I'm just here for dd."

I know I do need to have patience and love. He hasn't filed yet, even though he's talked about it. He also said he had moved a bunch of stuff into a storage unit, which I found out he didn't. It is definitley coming in waves with him.....

Please keep the advice coming, I will do anything I can- and maybe I'll go on antidepressants for awhile anyways...

Thank you all, your support means so much to me!

He fears he has failed you ... no matter what bullshyt he does ... his big old stomach-eating fear is (drum-roll) ~~~~~> he is not man enough for you .... so, he may over-compensate by machismo methods .... which only makes him feel like a bigger schmuck when he's done

stand up for yourself like a lady

do not allow him to wipe his feet on you ... which serves neither of you

work on your dignity

Pep

Yes, work on my dignity. Very good advice.

Last night was really great. We went down as a family to see the new house- we are supposed to move in 2 or so weeks. Then we stopped at Lowes to look at paint and blinds, and then on home. We had a good night and he cuddled with me- which is how we always slept before. Now sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. And this morning, he reminded me about saying our morning prayers, and usually it's me reminding him.

I am going to the library to check out the LoveBuster books- and also I'm going to check out half.com, they usually have good deals.

What should I say when his mood swings low? Should I just ignore it? I feel like if I'm not there to tell him I"m sorry and I love him then his thoughts just go to all bad when he starts getting like that and he falls further into the abyss. How do I act without seeming like I think it's no big deal or it was his fault in the first place?

Any ideas?

when he is low...ask what you can do for him. If he calls you names, then say - I love you, and I am sorry, and I want to help you, but I cannot while you call me names - stay completely calm and loving while you say it. DO NOT GET emotional when he is emotional...Be his rock during those times. If he wants space during those time, lovingly give him that space...

You must act with love and compasion and calmness...this will help him.

Hi all! Well, I started taking Sarafem, an antidepressant that my dr had recommended for PMS. DH doesnt' know....

He is so back and forth! I'm sure that's normal. I asked if he'd take the EN quiz, he (predictably) said no. He wants it to be all right but then his anger comes right back and it's not all right, and I try to be normal and he's angry at that. If I don't jump when he wants to have "relations" he gets angry. He says that has nothing to do with if we stay together or not. He says he'll just "know" if we should stay together or divorce- but who knows when. I really feel that he's using sex as a weapon (sing that Pat Benetar song...)- becasue if I don't do it he's angry and if he's angry he'll feel like it's not worth it and he'll "know" we should divorce.....if I"m not perfect....

I get sad reading here about all these BH's who really want their marriages to work and are willing to do a plan A. Becasue even though I am totally in the wrong here and made an absolutely wrong choice that I will regret for the rest of my life (I cant' even imaging how people who had PA's feel), there were still things in my marriage- my EN's- that weren't being met, and are still not being met. But you know what, there is time for that, and right now it's about him. I was selfish already and now need to try to make that as right as possible.

Any more words of wisdom will be much appreciated- I ordered His Need/ Her Needs and LoveBusters.....

Thanks!

Mrs Rob

The main problem I have right now with my W is that I don't feel "wanted" by her. I'm not sure how much of it is my insecurity in this area that has all but consumed me after finding about the A or how much of it is her really not wanting me. Probably she doesn't feel "in the mood" because she detects my insecurity... This cycle can just get worse and worse if you let it.

All I know is that it hurts *bad* to think of her even flirting and coming onto someone else when she either rejects me, is "ho hum" about the idea, or even subtly avoids the situation. It just brings on waves of negative emotions. The best thing my W could do for me would be to just go all out to show me she really wants to be with ME.

I'm plan A'ing as hard as I can though. I acknowlege her complaints and try to never argue with her about them. She's trying harder too but I can't seem to shake off this feeling. I hope your H does start trying in these areas for you.

Sorry if I missed this but if you are not in counselling I think you are making a mistake. We tried to just move on wihtout it and a year later I found my W betraying me again. There are things that need to be said to both of you that you cannot say to each other (IMHO)

Mrsrob,

I would suggest reading Dorry's thread on WW's.

I Know she posted the link for you.

I can tell you that I read it and I am a BS and If my FWW would have followed Dorry's advice we would be in a much better place right now.

Quite honestly it is one of the best posts I have seen.

You will have a lot of anger coming your way. It is like a roller coaster. In the beggining the ups and downs are fast and furious. As time goes by they are spaced farther apart but they will come.

You have an opportunity because what he is saying doesn't match what he is doing. If he wanted to leave you he would have already. Or at least he is not 100% sure he wants to leave.

It is harder to leave when you are seeing progress then it is when you aren't. Show him progress and it will make it harder for him to leave.

Print up dorry's post and start trying what she suggests.

OK, need more help- interpretation-

Hurtingless, I did read Dorry's WW post, and am implementing it and following the advice.

But here's the thing, just last night he told me he didn't care if our marriage worked out, he could never trust me again, and he doesn't think he loves me. He says he's been giving it time but just doesn't think it will work out. He says I'm a bad person and nothing can help it. Now he says he doesnt' want to have s*x becasue I "confuse him." But after his telling me all that, I told him how sorry I was and how much I loved him and how it's only been 3 months and please don't give up on me. I am making progress with myself, but I don't know if he sees it or if it even makes a difference to him now. Then we made love! Even though he said he didn't want to, he really did. Then after I tried to get him to tell me that he loved me, even a little, and he said, "N, don't coerce this." I told him he was right and apologized. Then we snuggled together all night while we were sleeping.

Do you think he says what he says about it not working out to hear me say that I love him and I'm sorry and that I'll always beg his forgiveness for hurting him and our family the way I did? So that he can hear that I am truly sorry? Or does he mean it one second and then doesnt' mean it the next?

I almost feel like he never really loved me enough or else he'd be able to start forgiving me. I feel that his telling me he thinks it will never work out is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, can I make this work all by myself if he doesn't care about it? Maybe I can. I am not making light of what I did, but I never met the OM in person. I know the biggie for my DH is that he caught me in Feb and I told him I'd have NC and then I didn't and he "re-caught" me in March. He won't come to this site and I of course cant' tell him that what I did is pretty normal. He "doesnt' want to hear about other people, he's not other people." I got that when I told him that a majority of couples who go through an A do stay married. I cry every day for the totally wrong decisions I made. He does not understand the "fog" concept. And it's funny that it's called a fog here- my bishop at church called it a mist of darkness.

Please, othe BS's, please tell me what he might be thinking. I love him so. I wish he loved me enough, but maybe it's not there. And there's this new house, which he initiated a couple months AFTER he found out about the EA again in March. He tells me he's just not excited about anything and I'm ruining it for him. I think that is so unfair, as he knew what went on before the house thing and he totally is doing the whole thing- even choosing the house.

What do y'all think????

HELP!!

It's not that he doesn't "love" you enough, its just that his HURT is greater than his love can be right now. An affair DESTROYS feelings of love. An affair is as PAINFUL as the death of a child, except the pain is intentionally inflicted. That cannot be swept under the rug. It will take 1 to 2 years for him to recover.

An affair is RUINOUS to one's love bank. For me, it took almost a YEAR of continous lovebank deposits to even not feel DISGUSTED at my H. I did not feel like I wanted him afterwards. But, he hung in there and did the hard work and eventually my feelings came back.

This is what you will have to do if you want to get him back. Do your best to make sure he feels loved and WANTED. The affair made him feel UNWANTED and UNDESIRED. It will take a consistent demonstration from you to undo that damage.



He doesn't need to understand the fog concept becasue it is completely irrelevant to the issue. It is not an excuse to have an affar.


Having an affair is not normal. It is the cruelest betrayal a spouse can commit. It will take alot of hard work on your part to rebuild the trust necessary to sustain a marriage and undo the damage you caused. You can expect him to be depressed for several months, often peaking around 8-9 months.

So, hang tight and work hard, MrsRob! You have a hard road ahead of you, but the benefits can be great if you stick to it!