Perhaps the answer to the problem of Affair Marriage posters causing serious injury to those of us who take offense is this one:

Create a separate and distinct section for "Affair Marriages"

This way the other folks could steer clear of such negative stimulation...

Thoughts?

I can see that fiftyleven people have read the idea and have yet to speak...

Think about it guys-it would address the of "fairness" (this being a public forum and all) measured against the fact that these Affair Marriage tales are offensive to a great many of us and hurtful to boot...

What say you????

I think no one has answered because we tried to get a WS forum before, and it was never started.

I do believe I posted that in a thread last week.

The Other Woman site seems to handle them CS. Maybe go a trolling over there.

glory b what a good idea!

A WS forum here? NOT SMART IDEA...NOT GOOD AT ALL.

We only recently got a dating divorced forum...and that is b/c many of us suffered enduring divorce and starting over as a result of unrepentant Ws and the vorciferous OW/OM on the rampage to destroy our families.

But a WS forum. BAAAAAD idea. and dumb too!

NOT a WS forum; An AFFAIR MARRIAGE forum.

That is markedly different.

A better solution is to learn the skills necessary to be respectful of others, and to not antagonize situations. Segregation usually is unsuccessful in solving these issues.

Trolling? Are you now lashing out in anger at me?

I am trying to come up with a way for these people (who obviuosly will not leave because they think they have a right to be here) a way to peacefully co-exist with the other folks on MB.

I don't want to read about Affair Marriages either.

If they had a place to post and discuss Harley's concepts, I could purposely avoid it, as could YOU.

Sigh...not a WS forum; an AFFAIR MARRIAGE forum.

People who don't like reading Affair MArriage tales could then avoid being exposed to them...

I think it is a really bad idea - just having the forum would imply that these marriages were supported by the Harleys.

It would be wonderful if there were enough compassion on the MB forum to create a safe space for affair marriages.

Not to condone them, but to support them in the monumentally difficult task of healing and bringing wholeness to all concerned. Sometimes that might mean ending the affair marriage. I suspect that wouldn't always be the best route.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that MB does not have the structure nor the high level of respect, compassion, and safety necessary to pull something like that off.

I sincerely wish that were not the case.

Oh, and a private forum for WS who are working on ending their affairs works very well indeed -- in a safe and carefully monitored environment. I don't think MB is quite ready for that, either.

no...no....no

we should NOT give any support

the hope that the affair will run it's natural course and end......

that's what keeps somoeone like me hopeful....the BS who still loves their WS and wants the affair relationship...even if it becomes a marriage to fail....as most affair marriages do

so they have a chance to save their marraige....a marriage that noone had any right to break apart by stealing someone else's spouse

if my H and OW marry.....and the marraige begins to fall apart.....there i am so hopeful....ready and waiting to have a chance to begin a new relationship with my H

and your telling me that my H or OW should be able to come here and get help to save their marraige?????

I have news for you: in some cases they ARE supported by the Harleys. Let me give you a quote from LoveBusters (chapter fifteen, "Restoring Love after Infidelity"):

"In most cases, I do not help an unfaithful spouse and the lover creating a lasting relationship. Instead, I try to help restore the broken marriage after the affair dies a natural death. But in Dean's case, both of his former wives wanted nothing to do with him, and without their cooperation, reconciliation was impossible. So I helped Dean make his next marriage last."

So there you have it, like it or not.

No... because you obviously still want your WS back. The Harleys don't support an affair marriage in such cases either.

However, I personally feel it would be better if affair marriages where the condition of "the former spouses want nothing to do with them" are met could be supported here. The Harleys do support them.

The problem, in my I'm-new-here opinion, is just that: anyone can post anywhere.

Unless someone starts labeling people by their current marital situation you will always have those who can't stay in their own sandbox. Creating a separate forum will just put the Affair Marriage people in one place so Betrayed Spouses can use a shotgun on them. Likewise, trying to preserve a forum just for Betrayed Spouses makes them easier to target and the vindictive Wayward Spouse has an easier time poking at them.

I believe "Marriage Builders" means we're all adults here (anyone from West Virginia? -- sorry, couldn't resist).

Please don't get me wrong about my personal stance on this. I have suffered greatly as a Betrayed Spouse and if my wife "hooked up" with one of her lovers I would not want to come here and read about their marital success OR failure.

I can't go anywhere in the REAL WORLD without seeing something on TV endorsing cheating behavior or hearing that personally-offensive-idiotic-and-hurtful song "Unfaithful" by Rianna.

I, as an adult, have to accept that life isn't out to make me happy all the time (OK, it's never out to make me happy). People will be people and all opinions are just that -- opinions.

If you disagree with someone on here, ignore them or respectfully disagree. AND MOVE ON.

I know there is a real concern that some with a warped view of the Marriage Builders concepts will advise those in despair to take action that is unwise or hurtful. But they could be getting the same advice from a bad counselor or friend.

We're killing a lot of innocent electrons beating this issue to death. But I guess that's why they call it a community.

Hear, hear, K! That just makes too much sense...

Eav, I just wanted to offer you a hug. My ex married her affair partner, so I know of whence you speak.

Oddly, I do not hope for their marriage to end. I want my daughter to have stability in her life and at this point, her stable life includes an ongoing relationship with her stepdad. I never wanted that, fought against it, and still cringe at it sometimes. But when I look at it from her point of view, I see that this is what she has known for 2 1/2 of her short 3 1/2 years of life. I know that our divorce harmed her. I also know that another divorce doesn't help -- it just destroys more.

I rebuilt my own life and am very happy with it. There have been times of tremendous grief and loneliness, but in the end, my life is just about the same as it was before things went to heck. I am happy, my life is good, and the sources-of-chaos in my life have mostly been removed. (DD is a source of entirely different chaos! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

but you are taking someone else's word for what their BS does or doesn't want.....

do you think they are all being honest about it?

would i expect my H's OW to say "his wife still loves him so much and i'm afraid that if our marraige ends he will go back to her?"

Just J

thanks for the hug!

i'm glad that you have made peace with your life and found happiness

it is wonderful that you have made your DD's happiness your priority!

i really appreciate the hug though...this waiting, hoping, and plan B stuff can make a girl a little sad...



i've noticed something-you said your X married her affair partner

...there sure are LOTS of people here that say their X marraied the affair partner......i thought the % of this happending was supposed to be very low? i've seen many, many different people post about it and i'm beginning to think that percentage is way off and that it happens ALOT

MB is first and foremost a site for support of the betrayed. There are those moments where every BS needs to know that 2% of affair relationships work out and expecting people in this position to aid a relationship that they want and need to end up in the 98% bucket is just not going to happen.

You know, I've been reading all these "affair marriage" posts and I've gotta say something....

First of all, are those of you who complain about this issue so perfect in your own lives and/or marriages that you have no work to do there and have all this spare time to flit around like pepperpots and judge others?

Who died and left you people in charge? The forums are set up with terms of use, etc., and have moderators to keep an eye on things. If you feel something is out of line, they(mods) are your point of contact. Don't take it upon yourselves to police the posters and decide what is right or wrong, who should go and who should stay.

You've already succeeded in running nb off active posting. She's done more good here for more people than all of the self-righteous here will do in their entire lives. But, congratulatons! Well done!

For everyone who has ever visited these forums, there is subject matter and there are posters that will offend or make one uncomfortable. If you can't even make the effort to avoid those subjects and posters that offend you, you probably need some professional help with impulse control as well as MB principles.

I've also noticed that there are some self-proclaimed "sages" here. If you want to know who the real sages are here, just watch veterans who never talk about how much they've helped others, never acknowledge others trying to put them on a pedestal. They just give you the straight scoop and the best advice they can, then back away until you need help again. Those are the true "wise ones". I won't mention names in case I forget someone, but one posted on this thread.

I'm not a religious person, but I think most of you are...I leave this for you to comtemplate as you decide who is worthy of MB help and who isn't....
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye."

<soapbox mode off>

Ditto Heartpain!

eav, you make an interesting point about the percentage of affair marriages.

My understanding is that the 2-3% figure comes from the concatenation of two other figures: The number of affairs that lead to divorce, and the number that then go on and lead to marriage.

If I recall correctly, each of those numbers is in the 10-15% range. So: 10-15% of affairs outlast the marriage. Of those, 10-15% lead to a marriage that lasts more than 5 years. (That's how they define a "successful" marriage in the research, don't ask me why.)

If you think about folks who find and then stay on MB, they're often the ones where the affair doesn't die immediately. I suspect that folks who post here are a little more likely to be the ones where the affair outlasts the marriage.

And the second figure? Well, a lot of the marriages where the ex married the affair partner are a good bit younger than five years old -- there aren't a whole lot of posters from before 2001, though there are some.

So I suspect a lot of the relationships that started as affairs and have become marriages have not yet played out their full life-cycle. Many of these do end in divorce, whether it's in 5 years or 25 years. 65% of ALL second marriages end in divorce, after all, and the percentage is higher for affairs.

However, that does not mean that any one marriage that started as an affair will end. Nor, in my view, does it mean that they all SHOULD end. We've read several times about the circumstances under which the Harleys will help when a marriage began as an affair. I tend to agree with them that if there are children in the second marriage, and not the first, then the second marriage should be helped to survive. Similarly, if the former spouses want nothing to do with them, then lets give the new marriage support. I like that, too.

I would probably go a little further and try to provide help for figuring out the best approach (whether divorce or not) in situations where there are children from more than one marriage and partners in various states of wanting to reconcile or not. In my view, the "greater good" in each of these situations may not mean rebuilding the first marriage. It's also the case, however, that these situations are rife with ethical and moral problems and dilemmas. There's no "clean" solution -- just less-bad alternatives and painful consequences no matter what you do.