I am trying so hard to have NC with OM. When I saw him last, he had gained weight,hair too short and had a shirt on that made me dizzy to look at. I'm not even really that attracted to him. So why do I miss him so much.

Is it really him or just how he made me feel during the EA? I just can't seem to let go completely and I don't know why. I'm always wondering what he's doing and how he is - why do I care?

Any FWW advice out there to help me see the reality of the OM and NOT this crazy addiction I have to this "fantasy" person I've created in my mind. I hate that it has this much control over my mind. How do I just let it all go - once and for all?

You answered your own question. The A's are really not about the OP, it is about YOU. Find something to distract yourself when you think about him. Maybe a rubber band you can snap your wrist with whenever you have those thoughts until it becomes negative for you. You will likely never completely stop having thoughts cross your mind but they will change, believe me. I wince when I think of what I did to my family. {{firsttimer}}

Or you could understand that he is the scumbag who assisted you in destroying everything, you H, Kids, Marriage, & Family. A real man, nice guy, a guy worth having, does not do the duty with a married woman and respects that woman and her H (even anyone in general) enough to not help the infidel destroy their life.

I want to see him in a negative light - believe me. I know this really must have something to do with me and what is missing inside of me.

Without the EA, I feel the "excitement" of my work day is gone. Now it's just work. It was fun to talk on the phone and e-mail. I thought it was harmless fun, but I now realize that I depended on that - now that I don't have it - I miss it. I feel like calling or e-mailing him.

I wish I could be the one to say " I don't want to do this anymore", but I think that I do want to do it more - WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME? It's like I have two lives - at home I'm a responsible wife and mother, but when I have the freedom at work, I'm like a "single" person almost and want the relationship with OM. I think I'm crazy.

On Lexapro - not helping. Uhg!

FT,

I know how you feel. It sucks right now. But, the longer you maintain NC the better it does get.

The problem is you told yourself so many lies that you came to believe them. That's why you feel crazy. Your beliefs and reality don't jive.

Here's a link to an old thread that really helped me a great deal.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=1

Perhaps it will help you too. It took me days to read through it. I copied and printed out many of the posts from it, to re-read later.


~ Marsh

How do you think you would feel if your husband told you that he feels he has two lives. At home he is a responsible husband and father, but when he is at work he feels like he is a single person and wants a relationship with his OW? You and your husband need marriage counseling badly.

Every time you have thoughts of OM, intentionally and consciously replace them with thoughts of how you can become closer to your husband.

Each instance remember how you felt during your dating period with your husband. How much you loved him because how HE made you feel about yourself.

Its all a matter of choice. Choose to control what and who you think about by training yourself every time OM seeps into your thoughts.

Jo

the A is but that's about it.... I just want you to know that while you CAN still salvage your M, you should seek counseling. Sounds like some of the needs this OM meets perhaps need to be met by your spouse and he may or may not even realize this. Your addiction to the OM is a powerful one and you will not be able to see clearly for a while. The "fog" you hear talk about here on these boards can be so dense and the addiction so powerful, it makes you go against your values!

Keep busy, email friends when you feel like you want to email OM, listen to Christian music (helps me remember my purpose in life and that this too shall pass) keep more busy, do some reading, I just picked up "Not Just Friends" and OMG if I had read this sooner!!!

Above all... pray....

Good luck
Becca

Thanks for all the advice - Unfortunately, I am so pissed at myself right now. When I don't hear from OM, I feel rejected and denied. When I do hear from him, I feel wanted, needed and desired. I need to figure a way to not "need" him and his acceptance and approval.

I have that from my H, but this was new and exciting - I just got so caught up in it and it made me feel special. How do I go back to how I felt before the EA? How do I forget how great I felt. How do I go back to not getting that "reinforcement" from someone new?

Could this at all stem from a father who did not show affection or communicate well at all? Am I just seeking "love" from this OM? OR - is this all just a big "challenge" for me? Do I just want to prove to myself that I still have that ability to make someone fall in love with me?

I know I need therapy. I'm working on it....

1sttimer:

Your Quote:
Without the EA, I feel the "excitement" of my work day is gone. Now it's just work. It was fun to talk on the phone and e-mail. I thought it was harmless fun, but I now realize that I depended on that - now that I don't have it - I miss it. I feel like calling or e-mailing him.

Don't call the OM. I felt the same way since d-day, but I can not contact the OW. Why? because it will hurt my spouse.

So, what do you do? Send an e-mail to your H. Leave a racy message on his cell phone. Transfer these energies you feel to improve your relationship with your H.

Yes, you are seeking acceptance from the OM, find out what you were getting from him and work with your H to get those things. Read HNHN, Now!

awesome suggestion LG

I too went through the same thing and think I did it, because things weren't so great at home. So when the EA ended and things still weren't so great at home, you really feel the void. It forced me to work on the relationship I had with my H. And I am glad to say, that I am happier with him than I had been in years. We actually have a sex life! Check out *********edit********* I found a book there called the Sex Starved Marriage and it changed so much on how we relate! There are lots of places to look for help. If you want to keep your family together, it is worth the effort. Good luck.

Thanks for listening - good advice. I think it's just going to be hard for awhile. I just need to break free from the thought that if OM calls then it's a good day - if he doesn't then it's a bad day.

It's so scary because I was ready to sleep with OM - how insane is that. At least he had the willpower to not let it get to an EA. I'm just weak and insecure. I even let myself think about what life would be like with OM. How stupid is that? I think I am just bored with my life.

I am so thankful for all my blessings and my family. This was supposed to be harmless fun, but now I don't know how to go back and I feel used by the OM. I'm embarrassed, ashamed and generally feel horrible for letting someone else have control over emotions in my own head.

I have to regain control of my life - without OM. I have to work on my marriage and my mental stability as to how I got into this mess. Sorry for rambling - it helps.

FT,

Some concrete ideas:

1. Every time you get the "need" to email or call him. Call or email your husband instead. If my FWH had spent half the time contacting me instead of OW, the relationship we could have built with that contact would have been amazing. Think of what you COULD be doing to repair and rebuild with your husband - each thought of OM could turn into an opportunity to do something RIGHT for your H and your marriage.

2. Instead of spending time in your thoughts about how boring your life is - change your own behavior. Get up and go DO something. I mean this in the most respectful way possible! DO something positive - volunteer somewhere, help a child learn to read, help at the local nursing home, do something for someone else that you are able to do and that needs to be done in your community. The fastest way to feel good about yourself and your life is to give of yourself. You said something to the effect that OM makes you feel "needed" - you ARE needed - just figure out what you can do well, and give that skill away to people in need. You will feel fulfilled, and you won't believe the rise in your sense of worth.

3. In order to help kill the fantasy thoughts about what life would be like with OM, just focus on what life would be like WITHOUT your wonderful family - because THAT is what life would be like WITH the OM. Simple, but true.

4. Try replacement thoughts. When all else fails, think of a place that you love. This works best if you pre-think of it. For example, when I prepared for this strategy, I decided that I would think of a field of tulips in Holland. I had a particular picture in my mind, and pre-thought about that picture, so it would be very easy for me to bring up the image in my mind when I needed to. Then, when the images of my husband's OW and the A kept haunting me, I would say "NO" very loudly in my mind, and then focus on the field of tulips. This takes a little practice, but each time the other thought tried to barge in, I repeated "NO", and refocused. Ultimately, the flowers win out. It got easier and easier. Again, it takes some practice. Got to where I just yell, "NO" to myself.

Hope this helps.

SB

Don't accept ANY calls from OM. Have you done a no contact letter?

firsttimer,

Ok, you want to break this addiction??? The first thing you do is tell your H about it and look at his face when he finds out that another man has your heart. Then just tell him it was "harmless" fun. I don't think he will believe it was harmless.

It is not harmless, because every time you think about OM, you are NOT thinking about your H or your family. Your boredom is your problem, it is not something your H can fix. Your choice to have an affair and violate your vows are YOUR choices.

The state of the marriage is something and your H share, but not your choice have the affair. Tell your H what you have done, and ask HIM for help. He is the one that can help you more than anyone.

As you do this, please read the articles here, especially Harley's 4 rules for a marriage, the concepts of radical honesty and the policy of Joint agreement. There is even more to read but start with those.

Tell your H about your affair, and you will start to see OM in a whole different light. A man that will play around on his wife and with another man's W is NOT someone to be admired or lusted after.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I have told my H about the EA - it was horrible and that is why I want to stop this addiction. I don't want to hurt my H ever again like I did the night I told him. It was so scary. I had resolution from that night on that the EA was OVER.

I did great for about a month and H has been fantastic. Stupid thoughts of OM keep creeping in my mind though - Why can't I just let it go - 1) I do not want him (as a H), 2) I don't want to sleep with him 3) I hate that he thinks he has me - I want to let all this go - I'm so mad at myself for even being here.

I'm a mom and a professional in the workforce and I want to grow up and get back to my regular life. This whole saga is so uncharacteristic of me. I know time will help tremendously - I'm just getting impatient with myself.

Sorry for being such a mess!

Have been reading posts on this sight for months and this is my first time to respond. But I could not NOT say something in response to LG's advice to "transfer your energy to your spouse" to help you not think about the OM. Isn't that part of the problem? I am the FWS and "sending racy messages" to my husband is not something I can do right now. I don't know if I'll ever want to have sex with my husband again. Your logic makes it sound like we have an on/off switch when it comes to sex. If we don't want it, there is no way to just "decide" to direct your energy toward a spouse you have NO attraction to.

Battles, oh yes there is a way to "decide" to direct your energy to your spouse.

It was by "deciding" to direct my energy to my spouse that set me on the path to recovery.

The man I thought I had NO attraction to (my H) is now the man I find completely sexy again and completely attractive again, as I always had before the A.

I don't think FWS describes you yet.

I have "decided" to stay and try to heal the marriage. We are currently in therapy(have been for 4 years off and on). But I find sex almost impossible. I've tried and cry afterward...it's horrible. My situation is probably a bit different from yours since I've never been physically attracted to my husband. I've been looking through many of the posts but have not found anyone really talking about how difficult sex is after an affair, especially if you never really liked it before the A. It was always my obligation as his wife. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth. Was it easy for you after the affair?

battles, yes, that is different if you felt like that. It was easy for me, before, during and after the affair but I used to cry after sex with my H after the affair as well (missing the OM, not guilt).

You will never heal your marriage if you can't commit to it 100%, therapy or no therapy. I always ask this. Why did you marry your H in the first place?

I gather that it wasn't an obligation with the OM so there's nothing physically wrong with you. It's an attitude problem.

We got married because I was pregnant. First guy I slept with.

Oh I see.

Battles, I have to go but I'll be back on later. How does your H feel about you?

Several people here have made suggestions on concrete things you can do to distract yourself. Try writing them on a sticky note and putting them on your computer. Something like:

Write H love note
Sent H Text Message
Make H a care
Call H to say "I Love You!" "Your So Hot!"

Brainstorm a list of things you can do to distract yourself then pick say 5-10 to write on the sticky note!

Also take a picture of H (and/or family pic) that reflects a time that you felt excitement with H and paste it on your computer at work.

Firsttimer, this is not the whole truth... Yes, you did told your H about the EA initially and had NC with him for a while, but then OM start to phone you again and you had telephone conversations with him. I advised you to send a NC letter to OM and to inform your H about the contact. You refused.

After a while, you told us that OM still phone you but that you don't take his calls anymore (don't answer the phone if you see him calling). Again I advised you to tell your H about OM's attempts to contact you and to send OM a proper NC letter approved by your H. You continued to ignore the advice.

After yet another while you posted how you met with OM on his request. You posted how you felt weak, out of control and angry with yourself for doing this. Again I said you will not start getting better and start getting out of this fog until you come clean with your H and send the approved NC letter… Again you failed to follow these most important steps...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3102683

No wonder you’re still struggling like this firsttimer... Don't you think it's time to take corrective steps e.g. come clean with your H about everything and send approved NC letter now or if OM attempts to contact you again?

OK, I know Suzet - you've been the voice of reason through my whole time posting here. I don't want to do a NC letter for fear of OM W (don't want her to find out - she would leave him in a second).

If I just ask OM not to call or contact me, he will respect that. I just can't say no when he calls. Actually though, I feel that I'm a bit stronger this week and hopefully I can tell him not to call anymore and have a bit of closure.

It's not the phone calls, e-mails or even the quick get together's that are the problem (obviously I know those need to stop), but it's the fact that I have this constant underlying thought of OM all the time in my head. It's truly more of a mental thing than anything else. I'm always thinking about him - it's truly an "emotional" thing - how do you "fix" or control that (your thoughts)?

I actually think I'm doing better this week - I feel stronger, things are going very well w/ H, had a long talk this weekend with my sister about our father and just did alot of soul-searching. Perhaps the AD are starting to kick in - for some reason - I just feel better today.

That's not to say I won't have a weak moment again, but hopefully I can realize that I'm not getting any sort of payoff for this kind of behavior, only grief - it's time to grow up and get back to reality.

I appreciate everyone's opinions, advice and help. It's invaluable!

firsttimer:

Your problem is that you are not making it through withdrawal. You keep allowing contact which sets you back to square one each time. I KNOW. I've done that! Suzet has too. Your problem is common among wayward spouses. It takes time to get through these symptoms. It will get better, but only if there is no contact AT ALL.

My problem was not that OM would contact me, but that he keeps a website. I could visit it and read about his thoughts (he keeps a detailed journal of what's going on in his head almost every day). There were often disguised messages to me in his journal. Reading them made me feel so good- because I knew he was thinking about me. So I thought about him- constantly. Even though I told myself it was not actual "contact"- the thoughts of him would not go away.

I had to stop looking at the website. It was REALLY REALLY hard. But once I did, I noticed that I stopped thinking about him so much. It took a while but it got better.

One mind trick that helped me was posted by "MEDC" here. He suggested that when you want to "stop a thought"- just start listing all the things you see in your field of vision. Computer monitor, paper, pen, stapler, book, scissors... keep doing that and you'll distract yourself long enough to think about something else. Try it. And good luck. We are on your side- we know it's hard but we also know you CAN do this.

I don't want to do a NC letter for fear of OM W (don't want her to find out - she would leave him in a second).


FT - isn't this HIS problem. Don't you have enough problems to work on yourself? Let him deal with his wife and their problems. If you really cared for OM then his wife needs to know so they can heal from this sitch also.
good luck with your fog.
M2L

This is really not your problem. In fact, it will be a good thing if OM’s W finds out. She deserves to know the truth and as Maybe2late has said, his W needs to know so they can heal from this sitch too. The ideal will be if your H can expose to OM’s W. Discuss this with your H so that he or you can do it now (expose to OM’s W) before too much time passes by. Maybe what I say now might sound hypocritical since my EA was never exposed to OM’s W (also not after the resumption of the EA more than 3 months ago), but if I could have this entire episode over and discovered this website soon after D-day, we would have exposed to OM’s W very early on. Then we would have probably did it the same way the EA was exposed to my H e.g. a printout of an inappropriate e-mail OM send me (on D-Day someone anonymous at my company have get into my e-mail box somehow, printed the e-mail and have enveloped and send it to my H). If we did this (exposed to OM’s W back then), there would have probably not been a resumption of the EA and then probably OM would have not tried to initiate a friendship with me during the years. I tell you this because you (and your H – if you became honest with him about the recent contacts and your vulnerabilities & struggles regarding OM) have a chance to do things right this time FT…and not make the same mistakes I did.


More reason to send the NC letter and come clean with your H about the recent contacts and your weakness in this matter so that he can help protect you from OM and your weakness. You are weak and vulnerable right now FT and need your H’s help. If you come clean with your H, he might choose to call the OM himself and instruct him to stay away from you – a tactic which might scare OM away permanently! Also, you deceive your H if you keep this from him any longer and the longer you’re going to wait to come clean with him about the recent contacts (phone calls and meeting), the more & more difficult it will become for you to come clean and the more betrayed you H will feel when he eventually finds out… Right now, with your H not knowing about the recent contacts and your vulnerability regarding this matter, you’re at great risk for a resumption of the EA because you don’t have your H to keep you accountable. And by keeping these secrets from your H, you prevent marital recovery and true intimacy with your H. You will not be able to build a strong M this way…


Actually, it IS the phone calls, e-mails and get togethers which are the problem here… Every time there is contact with OM so early in recovery, it puts you back to square one of withdrawal. These “little” contacts keep the OM alive in your heart and mind. Even if there is NO contact with OM whatsoever, it might take you a long time to get through withdrawal completely (it depends from person to person as I’ve explained in my withdrawal thread), but these thoughts, feelings and obsession for OM will NOT start getting better as long as you still allow contact from him.

Underneath are some guidelines (copy and pasted from my withdrawal thread):

1. Keep yourself busy, although you may not feel like doing anything. Getting busy will keep your mind from wandering to thoughts of OP. Spend as little time alone as possible. Go to the movies, a concert or a play, whatever you enjoy...as long as you gets busy! Post here, pray, call old friends you may have been neglecting or call current friends you spending too little time with.

2. Get involved with ministry/community service/charity or anything similar. Helping others will take your mind off yourself.

3. Go to your Medical Practitioner and/or Counselor and get antidepressants if necessary. Don’t hesitate to seek professional and medical help if you feel it's necessary. This one you already did FT.

4. Show love to your S, even when it feels a bit unnatural, fake or forced at first. The acts of love became more real and heartfelt the more they are repeated. When you actively show love and receive feedback from your S, it will become pleasurable to repeat those things. The more you do them, the more real they will become. And spend time with your mate. Do something different. Get out of the rut. Develop new interest. Have fun together. Work at becoming friends again.

5. Make a conscious effort to avoid things that will remind you positively of the OP. Whether it's romantic songs or movies that you enjoyed, hobbies or pastimes you had in common, or just dwelling mentally on conversations or times you enjoyed together...you must do your best to avoid dwelling on them. Thoughts of the OP will pop up and the temptation is to daydream about them at length but the good news is, as you AVOID CONTACT with the OP and having NO CONTACT, these things will fade. The OP itself will become more of a blurry memory. When these memories come up, do whatever you have to do to stop thinking about them. If the OP pops up in your mind, turn your thoughts to happy memories of times with your spouse. Pick up a book, watch a TV show, read the Bible, call a friend, just try hard not to dwell on them. Again, with this, you will find it easier to do as time passes and there is no contact.

6. Constantly remind yourself of the great things about your spouse, and the not-so-great things about the OP. Be honest with yourself. There are areas that you KNOW your spouse is superior to the OP. If you can't think of any, grab on to ANY positive thing you can think about in regards to your spouse. Think of the things that attracted you to your spouse initially, or that you've always liked or admired or respected about him/her and focus on that. Think on these things. Remind yourself of things about the OP that were definitely negative. Magnify them if you have to. Remind yourself that your spouse have it over the OP big time in a couple of major ways e.g:

i) Your spouse didn't indulge in an A with a married man/women.

ii) They love you enough to want to stay with you and stand by you, in spite of the pain you caused him/her.

The above two things alone show you the kind of love and integrity from your BS.

7. Remind yourself constantly that love is something you DO, not something you feel. Love is meeting someone's needs. Love is action. Feelings come and go...especially fantasy-based and fog-based feelings.

8. Develop a good & strong support system which can help & encourage you to maintain NC and stay committed to it. You can accomplish this by taking the following steps:

i) Be honest & open with your BS. Your S must become your greatest friend and confidant. Your S is the key and most important person who can help you to stay committed and maintain NC with OP.

ii) If you have close friends of the same sex who are trustworthy, religious and set a high importance on M and the well-being of both you and your S, then confided in them. The same goes with family members. On days you feel ‘down’, weak and/or vulnerable to contact OP, you can contact them in stead and go to them for support, go out for a cup of coffee with one of them or whatever.

iii) Seek professional help & support. Go to a trusting, outside person like a Christian counselor/therapist or pastor. Make sure the person you seek out is religious and values the importance of marriage in general and the importance of fidelity in a marriage.

8. Know that there is HOPE! There is definitely hope for your marriage and your feelings for the OP can fade. Keep trying, and don't beat yourself up when you have mental and emotional setbacks, because you will. Just look at the big picture and keep going. Realize that recovery is not necessarily about strength, but most importantly the choice and realization that NC is the only way to go. It’s also about the desire to regain your own integrity in spite of your weakness and temptation to contact the OP during withdrawal and early recovery.

Is it wrong to want to have one last conversation with OM for closure purposes?

You already know the answer to this question.


Yes...it is wrong to want to have one last conversation for "closure" purposes.

The subtle drive behind the desire to end things "properly" is the desire to protect your feelings..the OPs feelings and the affair itself from being sullied by the reality of its nature.

let's think about what closure really means.

It means closed. Done. No more forever.

Every single one of these things can be readily accomplished by permanent NC without one last meeting or phone call explanation or "I will always love you" or "no regrets" or any of the fogbabble "please keep my fantasy nice" verbiage.

Will any of what I have said make you want it less?

Absolutely not.

You will WANT it until your stomach cramps and you cry and feel hopeless and depressed and then keep wanting it until you are sure you can't stand another minute [for 3 to six weeks or until you detox].

This is the nature of addiction. Ugly. Brutal. Selfish.

Yet you stand on the edge looking back and asking...would just one LAST fix really be soooooo bad?

There are a lot of bodies in the ground who asked that very question.

It is all always about choices. It always was.

firsttimer,
This is the first time I posted to you, but I've been following your threads somewhat. I am a FWW just about 2 years past DDay.

This one last conversation that you "want" will not provide you the closure you think you "want". I had an online EA that ended on 12/27/04. I kept thinking I needed closure and there was always one more conversation I felt I needed. This lasted until May '05. FIVE MONTHS I wasted trying to get closure. FIVE MONTHS that greatly hindered my recovery. What did that last conversation get me? NOTHING in terms of recovery! It kept me in the fantasy of the affair. Don't do it firsttimer. Walk away from this and reach true recovery by having total NC once and for all. Once you get past those weeks of withdrawal, you will start to feel better. I've been there and I was a mess with trying to give up this former OM. Now I see the whole thing for what it was and it was a total fantasy. But, you will never see that as long as you are feeding that fantasy by your contacting the OM or by allowing the OM to contact you.

You've received some great advice on this thread to help you through withdrawal. You received great advice to tell your husband everything about the additional contact you had with the OM. You received some great advice about sending a NC letter. You can either take that advice or keep seeking that last contact for closure and prolong this misery you are in. Which do you really want firsttimer? You have this constant underlying thought of the OM right now and that is perfectly NORMAL for where you are because you keep having contact with the OM. I understand that very well, but you will never get past that as long as you are having contact.


Which choice are you going to make today? You can start by making that right choice right now. You can do it and you will make it past this!

What do you hope to achieve? Honestly? What is it you REALLY want from it?

Are you hoping to find out that he misses you as much as you miss him? Isn't THAT really what you want the most? I know it was what I wanted to know most during my WD. I fought w/ everything I had not to contact him to find out. I understand your desire perfectly!

You MUST give this NC a try. You must give it at least 2 months. If at the end of that time, things haven't improved for you, come back here and tell us about it.

You say you want to feel the way you used to towards your H. I understand that. You wish you could go back in time and not do what you've done, but you can't. You can only go forward. NC is the way you do this. It totally sucks, I know! But, you must do it. You have no choice. You know this.

Suck up your feelings. Tough it out. Day by day, moment by moment...it will not always feel like it does now. It will get better.



~ Marsh

Firsttimer, while you’re still in withdrawal from OM & obsessed with him (like you currently are), it’s perfectly normal to “want” to have one last conversation for “closure” purposes, BUT it will be terribly wrong to give in to this desire and follow through on it… Inherently this is a very selfish desire because (as explained by noodle) “the subtle drive behind the desire to end things "properly" is the desire to protect your feelings…the OPs feelings and the affair itself from being sullied by the reality of its nature.” These words are very true Firsttimer…as a FWW I know because I’ve been there myself. A few years back I also had the desire (like you) to have “closure” with OM and ended things “properly”. I gave into this desire and send a “closure” e-mail to OM which he responded to. (If you’re interested you can read all about it HERE.) Initially I felt very good after I’ve send that e-mail and I finally felt we've got the “closure” both of us were looking for, but after some time has passed, I looked back and realized that e-mail I’ve send was a big mistake. To use 2Bnormal’s words - that one last conversation (in my case e-mail) I "wanted" did not really provided the closure I thought I would get. The fact that OM tried to contact me again a few months after that “closure” e-mails and the fact that there was a resumption of the EA a while back, is further proof of this.

Conclusion: “Closure” conversations DOESN’T WORK and such is not in the best interest of you, your H and most importantly YOUR MARRIAGE. The best closure you can get is coming clean with your H & send a NC letter to OM (whether it’s hand-written or by e-mail).

Here is some help (just click on link):

Sample NC-letters

Also read the following Dr Harley have to say about the NC-letter:

”How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.”

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

firsttimer,
I needed to add something regarding what I posted above. I had mentioned that I tried to get closure for 5 months with this former OM. From 1/05 to sometime in 3/05, the OM and I kept contacting each other through our email accounts. It did stop all of a sudden because we told each other we HAD to stop, but there was no closure to it. One day out of the blue in 5/05, the OM sends me an email with an update on a family situation asking me not to reply. I knew right then and there for me to have closure, I had to come clean with my husband about all the "secret" contact I had maintained with the OM, and that my H and I had to write a NC letter. I printed the email from the OM for my H to read and confessed all the additional contact I had with the OM and asked my H to help me by writing a NC letter together to send to the OM. My H followed up this NC letter with a phone call to the OM to be sure he understood the message we sent him.

Firsttimer, the only true closure will be when you come clean with your husband with this additional contact you had with the OM and when you send a NC letter that your husband agrees to. This is the only way that will enable you to move forward and put this behind you. Is it hard? YES! But when you look back on it, you will see it was the best thing for your H and your marriage.

I concur with the above 200%.

Firsttimer, as I've told you before, I had weak moments too and from what happened to me a few months ago (resumption of the EA), I know how easy it is to fall back into that grip… It’s because both me and 2BNormal know and understand your struggles and weaknesses regarding this issue that we feel so STRONGLY about INFORMING your H; keeping NO secrets from him and cut off ALL contact with OM (by sending NC letter approved by your H)... This is precisely what I did after the recent resumption of the EA e.g. I informed my H about everything and send another NC letter to OM (approved by my H). Was it easy to do? NO! Did I hesitate to do it and was I afraid to do it? YES! But I still did it because I knew that those steps would be the only way out of the mess I’ve created for myself; to help correct the wrong choices I’ve made; to protect myself but most importantly, to stay honest and open with my H.

Firsttimer, the longer you're waiting to do this and coming clean with your H about the additional contact, the more you’re piling up continuous betrayal, secrets, lies & deception against your H…and the more difficult it will become for your H to recover and give you another chance. Every single day you postpone this and refuse to do the right thing, is another day of further betrayal against your dear H...and the further you move away from a recovered M and M where there can be true intimacy between you and your H.

2BNormal gave you great advice. Please follow it.

Man, you guys are tough. No closure conversation - I get it. In a way though, it seems like NC is kinda "hiding" from the temptation.

I mean, if you were truly "over" someone, shouldn't you be able to talk or run into them occassionally without a problem?

It just seems like NC is not "dealing" with the issue - just putting your blinders on and saying, "I'm not going to look at you - I'm not going to talk to you and hopefully then, these feelings will just go away."

I just don't feel like I'm confronting or addressing the issue by just ignoring it (him). Thoughts?

You will NEVER be "over" him. He will always have some sort of attraction for you. He is vodka and you are an alcoholic. Cold turkey is the only way.

You're trying to be a cake-eater, and that is not ok here.

Firsttimer, my H is exactly where you are right now. He is in IC and we are in MC with the same therapist....if you are not seeking professional help, you need to asap.

As the BS, I can tell you my WH's struggle is oozing from every pore and I can feel it. It depresses me to no end. I am sure your H can sense it, too. I am confident that if OW were to break NC, my H would not tell me about it. He has never offered any information to me on his own. What you and my H are going through is a completely selfish, self serving, feeling of entitlement thought process. WH is working through this in therapy. It is taking a long time, and I hope you will consider it, if not for yourself, but for your H.

Firsttimer, first you need to remember that the OM is like an addiction to you. It’s the same as a person being addicted to drugs or alcohol. Right? So, let’s take your post above and replace your addiction to the OP with addiction to drugs/alcohol in stead:

[color:"blue"]I mean, if you were truly a rehabilitated alcoholic/drug user, shouldn't you be able to smell the alcohol/drugs or take it occasionally without a problem?

It just seems like not taking alcohol/drugs anymore is not "dealing" with the issue - just putting your blinders on and saying, "I'm not going to look at/smell the drugs/alcohol - I'm not going to take the alcohol/drugs and hopefully then, these craving to get my alcohol/drug fix will just go away."

I just don't feel like I'm confronting or addressing the issue by just stop taking the drugs/alcohol. Thoughts?[/color]

Firsttimer, can you see now that your way of thinking about the OM and how to “deal” with it doesn’t make sense whatsoever and are not logical? Will you tell an alcohol/drug addict or rehabilitated alcohol/drug addict to NOT stay away from alcohol/drugs completely and forever, but in fact encourage them to take the alcohol/drugs because to do otherwise will in your opinion be like “hiding” from the addiction and “putting blinders” on by stop taking alcohol/drugs completely? I don’t think so… But yet you want to do exactly this with your addiction...

Firsttimer, also read this:

[color:"blue"] Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. He must certainly not work with his former lover and should probably live in some other city or state. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists... [/color]

This is not hiding from the temptation. NC is PROTECTING yourself from the temptation and YOUR WEAKNESS! This is protecting your marriage.


NC is "dealing" with the issue. The "issue" is your weakness and this temptation to keep communicating with the OM. Firsttimer, I understand how you feel and how you miss the OM and want to talk to him. I've been there and I can tell you EVERY ONE of those last emails the OM and I sent to each other was not helping me get over the OM. Each time we communicated, it made it that much harder to go NC. Each email kept feeding my addiction to the OM. The only way to end the addiction is to stop. Yes, it's painful, and right now you can't see how you will make it, but I'm here to tell you that you will! But, you need to make the choice to come clean with your husband and send a NC letter to the OM.

No, you have this completely backwards. The feelings go away when you STOP THE CONTACT. The feelings CAN'T go away if you continually see or speak to him. As with an alcoholic, he can't withdraw if he continues to drink and hang out in bars. He can only withdraw and recover with COMPLETE abstinence. That is not "ignoring" the problem, that is RESOLVING the problem.

Hey firsttimer perhaps I can be of assistance in helping you forget the OM.. See, I have a good friend that is seeking a relationship with a married woman. He lies, cheats and steals. He is overweight, has strange hair and dresses poorly. He doesn't care about anyone else but himself. The feelings of others matter not to him. He will date one woman while pursuing another in order to feed his narcissim. He loves to string women along and tell them lines about himself in order to bed them. He can't stay committed it's too confining and demanding, too many real responsibilities like work, kids, bills, laundry, house up keep, etc. He had rather have no responsibilities other than seeing who his next conquest is going to be so that he can brag to the guys at the bar about bedding them. He hates children as he seeks to break up families at every chance presented him. He thinks kids are better off coming from split homes and traveling miles upon miles to see one parent or another or learning that loyalty, your word, committment and dignity have no place. Only those who look out for themselves get what they want is his personal credo.

I think he would be a great mate for you and may allow you to get over thoughts about the OM except for one problem, you are already pining over a man just like this!!!

I hate to be so blunt but do you GET IT. This guy is a slime bag, coward, piece dried up manure and if he blew away tomorrow the world would be cleaner by one piece of ****. How much more do you need to know about this guy?

Hopeandpray: Excellent post. I doubt firsttimer will get it though. I cannot tell you how many analogies I presented that were dismissed or rebuted. She will only get it when she distances herself permanently, and then looks behind her and sees what a complete a$$ she had been. I am waiting for this moment to happen in my marriage as well.

I understand the analogy, and I agree that an addict shouldn't "use" drugs/alcohol, but shouldn't an alcoholic - if they are truly over the addiction - be able to at least walk by a bar and not be tempted to go in?

Isn't that the true example of being "healed" - when I can see OM and NOT be affected.... maybe not - just a thought.

How will they "get over the addiction" if they don't stop drinking? You can't get over your affair if you don't WITHDRAW and you can't withdraw until you STOP ALL CONTACT.

Just as with an alcoholic, the affairee NEVER "gets over their addiction," they simply arrest it. They don't play fools games by tempting themselves unneccesarily. [the correct analogy is having a drink since just seeing the OP is the same as having a drink] An alcoholic NEVER drinks again. The reason that MB principles work so well is because they prescribe that the affairees are to NEVER - NEVER EVER - see the affair partner again. That is how you keep the addiction in remission. That is why this WORKS. This is why AA works.

Do you imagine that an alcholic can stay sober if you send them into the bar every day and set a beer in front of them? They look at that drink and think of nothing else. They remain OBSESSED with that drink because they never withdraw. When the inevitable weak moment hits them, they take that drink and are right back where they started. This tactic only ensures that the addict NEVER withdraws and before long, they are back at it again. It is a fools mission that never works.

An alcoholic does not play with fire if they want to STAY SOBER. Just as a WS who truly wants to stay affair free will not play games with contact.


No, not at all, because there is no healing, just remission. Seeing the OM will only rekindle your feelings. Just as having ONE drink will rekindle those feelings in an alcholic and start him back to binge drinking.

firstimer, another reason that you can't see the OM anymore is becuase it would be grossly disrespectful to your H. He should never tolerate that. He can't ever recover himself and rebuild trust if you continue contact with the OM. You owe him at least that much.

...and you also owe the truth - the whole truth - to your H firsttimer... That means coming clean with your H about ALL the additional contacts you had with OM since you've told your H about the EA.

As I've said to you yesterday, the longer you wait to come clean with your H about this, the more you’re piling up continuous betrayal, secrets, lies & deception against him... The longer you're waiting, the more difficult it will become for you to eventually come clean with your H...and the further you will move away from a recovered M and a M where there can be true intimacy between you and your H.

Firsttimer, listen to what Suzet said here, and also what I've shared previously. Not coming clean with your H with your continued betrayal to him will only hinder your recovery of your marriage.

When are you going to tell him? When are you going to send a NC letter to the OM? What is preventing you from doing this? I know it's not easy, but it is the only way you will move forward. I've been there firsttimer. I had continued betrayal of email contact with the OM after I told my H of the EA and had to come clean. It's not easy, but it IS the only way to recovery and moving past this to achieve honesty and intimacy in your marriage.

A Native American legend:

A young boy was walking in the mountains, high up, near the tree line. The weather was cold and winter was about to begin.

As he walked along, he found a rattle snake. It was coiled up tightly, braced against the cold wind.

“Please help me!” the snake said to the boy, “If I don’t get down to lower elevations and warm up, I’ll surely die.”

“Help you?” asked the boy, “why would I help someone who could harm me?”

“If you don’t help me, Ill die!” said the snake. “But if you’ll just pick me up and take me down the mountain with you, I’ll have a chance to live.”

“But you’ll bite me if I touch you, and then I will die,” said the boy.

“No,” said the snake, “I promise, that if you’ll help me, I’ll let you live, for I will owe you my life.”

So the boy, after contemplating his course of action, picked up the snake, placed him inside his coat and began his long climb down the mountain.

The snake began to warm up inside the boy’s coat, and as his strength returned. He began to move around, and then he bit the boy on his side.

The boy tore the snake out of his coat and shouted, “You said you wouldn’t bite me if I helped you and now you’ve done just that! I am going to die here on the mountain and my family will be devastated. No one will even know what happened to me. My people may even blame the neighboring people and think that they have done something to me. There could be a great war and many will die. You promised! How could you do such a thing?”

“You knew “said the snake, “what I was when you picked me up.”


In the story of David and Bathsheba, 2Sam 11:1 says "at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab out with the king's men and the whole Israelite army."

David was where he should not have been, and fell to the temptation.

If you go where you shouldn’t go and seek out that which can harm you, you will be bitten by the snake! Only one Man has ever been successful at resisting all temptation!

It isn’t about resisting, it is about boundaries.

Awesome post, Betrayedhub!

Firsttimer,

In addition to Mark1952's EXCELLENT post above, read these 2 chapters from book "The Purpose Driven Life" on how to grow through and defeat temptation too.

OK - I'm going on over a week now with NC with OM. It actually feels good and liberating for me. When I talk with OM I can't wait for the next time and the next time and the next. But - once I don't have NC for a good chunk of time (like over a week or longer), I feel like I emerge from the grip of the addiction. I can do NC - I see it's benefits now and that this is the only way to really let go of all of this.

Things are going fantastic with H - there is no way I'm going to ruin that by bringing up a few phone calls from OM from weeks ago. I do feel like the passion has "peaked" with OM and that the attraction has dissipated. Combine that with NC and I really feel like all this is finally over.

Thank God that I'm coming out of this fog and my marriage is still in tact. I am so thankful that I get a second chance to make my marriage better than it's ever been.


I appreciate all your guidance and help and I will keep you all posted on how things are going, but for now I think I'm going to check out for awhile. Thanks again - could NOT have made it through this experience without this website and all your advice! You guys are great! Thanks again!

Firsttimer, before you run off for awhile, tell us what you plan to do next time the OM tries to contact you? What safeguards do you have set up to prevent him contacting you? You know he will try, but you have done nothing to prevent him from contacting you. This is why telling your husband of the additional contact you had and writing a NC letter with your husband will help you with NC. Please consider this. I know what it's like to be weak. You are not as strong as you say you are right now.

2BN-

Boy...doesn't your advice sound familiar?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Firstimer-

I've not read your whole thread...I'll try to do so later today when I've got some time. But the advice you're getting from ML, Suzet, 2BN and others is all right on the money. You're no where near the point where you can "walk by the bar" yet. You need to get past the point where you crave going to the bar in the first place.

And as far as telling your H...trust me, as a BH, the longer you wait, the more difficult trust will be to regain with your H. Ask 2BN about the advice I'd given her when she was going through this...as a matter of fact, do a search for a thread by CARDSONLY on this forum, and read it yourself friend.