battles, yes, that is different if you felt like that. It was easy for me, before, during and after the affair but I used to cry after sex with my H after the affair as well (missing the OM, not guilt).

You will never heal your marriage if you can't commit to it 100%, therapy or no therapy. I always ask this. Why did you marry your H in the first place?

I gather that it wasn't an obligation with the OM so there's nothing physically wrong with you. It's an attitude problem.

We got married because I was pregnant. First guy I slept with.

Oh I see.

Battles, I have to go but I'll be back on later. How does your H feel about you?

Several people here have made suggestions on concrete things you can do to distract yourself. Try writing them on a sticky note and putting them on your computer. Something like:

Write H love note
Sent H Text Message
Make H a care
Call H to say "I Love You!" "Your So Hot!"

Brainstorm a list of things you can do to distract yourself then pick say 5-10 to write on the sticky note!

Also take a picture of H (and/or family pic) that reflects a time that you felt excitement with H and paste it on your computer at work.

Firsttimer, this is not the whole truth... Yes, you did told your H about the EA initially and had NC with him for a while, but then OM start to phone you again and you had telephone conversations with him. I advised you to send a NC letter to OM and to inform your H about the contact. You refused.

After a while, you told us that OM still phone you but that you don't take his calls anymore (don't answer the phone if you see him calling). Again I advised you to tell your H about OM's attempts to contact you and to send OM a proper NC letter approved by your H. You continued to ignore the advice.

After yet another while you posted how you met with OM on his request. You posted how you felt weak, out of control and angry with yourself for doing this. Again I said you will not start getting better and start getting out of this fog until you come clean with your H and send the approved NC letter… Again you failed to follow these most important steps...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3102683

No wonder you’re still struggling like this firsttimer... Don't you think it's time to take corrective steps e.g. come clean with your H about everything and send approved NC letter now or if OM attempts to contact you again?

OK, I know Suzet - you've been the voice of reason through my whole time posting here. I don't want to do a NC letter for fear of OM W (don't want her to find out - she would leave him in a second).

If I just ask OM not to call or contact me, he will respect that. I just can't say no when he calls. Actually though, I feel that I'm a bit stronger this week and hopefully I can tell him not to call anymore and have a bit of closure.

It's not the phone calls, e-mails or even the quick get together's that are the problem (obviously I know those need to stop), but it's the fact that I have this constant underlying thought of OM all the time in my head. It's truly more of a mental thing than anything else. I'm always thinking about him - it's truly an "emotional" thing - how do you "fix" or control that (your thoughts)?

I actually think I'm doing better this week - I feel stronger, things are going very well w/ H, had a long talk this weekend with my sister about our father and just did alot of soul-searching. Perhaps the AD are starting to kick in - for some reason - I just feel better today.

That's not to say I won't have a weak moment again, but hopefully I can realize that I'm not getting any sort of payoff for this kind of behavior, only grief - it's time to grow up and get back to reality.

I appreciate everyone's opinions, advice and help. It's invaluable!

firsttimer:

Your problem is that you are not making it through withdrawal. You keep allowing contact which sets you back to square one each time. I KNOW. I've done that! Suzet has too. Your problem is common among wayward spouses. It takes time to get through these symptoms. It will get better, but only if there is no contact AT ALL.

My problem was not that OM would contact me, but that he keeps a website. I could visit it and read about his thoughts (he keeps a detailed journal of what's going on in his head almost every day). There were often disguised messages to me in his journal. Reading them made me feel so good- because I knew he was thinking about me. So I thought about him- constantly. Even though I told myself it was not actual "contact"- the thoughts of him would not go away.

I had to stop looking at the website. It was REALLY REALLY hard. But once I did, I noticed that I stopped thinking about him so much. It took a while but it got better.

One mind trick that helped me was posted by "MEDC" here. He suggested that when you want to "stop a thought"- just start listing all the things you see in your field of vision. Computer monitor, paper, pen, stapler, book, scissors... keep doing that and you'll distract yourself long enough to think about something else. Try it. And good luck. We are on your side- we know it's hard but we also know you CAN do this.

I don't want to do a NC letter for fear of OM W (don't want her to find out - she would leave him in a second).


FT - isn't this HIS problem. Don't you have enough problems to work on yourself? Let him deal with his wife and their problems. If you really cared for OM then his wife needs to know so they can heal from this sitch also.
good luck with your fog.
M2L

This is really not your problem. In fact, it will be a good thing if OM’s W finds out. She deserves to know the truth and as Maybe2late has said, his W needs to know so they can heal from this sitch too. The ideal will be if your H can expose to OM’s W. Discuss this with your H so that he or you can do it now (expose to OM’s W) before too much time passes by. Maybe what I say now might sound hypocritical since my EA was never exposed to OM’s W (also not after the resumption of the EA more than 3 months ago), but if I could have this entire episode over and discovered this website soon after D-day, we would have exposed to OM’s W very early on. Then we would have probably did it the same way the EA was exposed to my H e.g. a printout of an inappropriate e-mail OM send me (on D-Day someone anonymous at my company have get into my e-mail box somehow, printed the e-mail and have enveloped and send it to my H). If we did this (exposed to OM’s W back then), there would have probably not been a resumption of the EA and then probably OM would have not tried to initiate a friendship with me during the years. I tell you this because you (and your H – if you became honest with him about the recent contacts and your vulnerabilities & struggles regarding OM) have a chance to do things right this time FT…and not make the same mistakes I did.


More reason to send the NC letter and come clean with your H about the recent contacts and your weakness in this matter so that he can help protect you from OM and your weakness. You are weak and vulnerable right now FT and need your H’s help. If you come clean with your H, he might choose to call the OM himself and instruct him to stay away from you – a tactic which might scare OM away permanently! Also, you deceive your H if you keep this from him any longer and the longer you’re going to wait to come clean with him about the recent contacts (phone calls and meeting), the more & more difficult it will become for you to come clean and the more betrayed you H will feel when he eventually finds out… Right now, with your H not knowing about the recent contacts and your vulnerability regarding this matter, you’re at great risk for a resumption of the EA because you don’t have your H to keep you accountable. And by keeping these secrets from your H, you prevent marital recovery and true intimacy with your H. You will not be able to build a strong M this way…


Actually, it IS the phone calls, e-mails and get togethers which are the problem here… Every time there is contact with OM so early in recovery, it puts you back to square one of withdrawal. These “little” contacts keep the OM alive in your heart and mind. Even if there is NO contact with OM whatsoever, it might take you a long time to get through withdrawal completely (it depends from person to person as I’ve explained in my withdrawal thread), but these thoughts, feelings and obsession for OM will NOT start getting better as long as you still allow contact from him.

Underneath are some guidelines (copy and pasted from my withdrawal thread):

1. Keep yourself busy, although you may not feel like doing anything. Getting busy will keep your mind from wandering to thoughts of OP. Spend as little time alone as possible. Go to the movies, a concert or a play, whatever you enjoy...as long as you gets busy! Post here, pray, call old friends you may have been neglecting or call current friends you spending too little time with.

2. Get involved with ministry/community service/charity or anything similar. Helping others will take your mind off yourself.

3. Go to your Medical Practitioner and/or Counselor and get antidepressants if necessary. Don’t hesitate to seek professional and medical help if you feel it's necessary. This one you already did FT.

4. Show love to your S, even when it feels a bit unnatural, fake or forced at first. The acts of love became more real and heartfelt the more they are repeated. When you actively show love and receive feedback from your S, it will become pleasurable to repeat those things. The more you do them, the more real they will become. And spend time with your mate. Do something different. Get out of the rut. Develop new interest. Have fun together. Work at becoming friends again.

5. Make a conscious effort to avoid things that will remind you positively of the OP. Whether it's romantic songs or movies that you enjoyed, hobbies or pastimes you had in common, or just dwelling mentally on conversations or times you enjoyed together...you must do your best to avoid dwelling on them. Thoughts of the OP will pop up and the temptation is to daydream about them at length but the good news is, as you AVOID CONTACT with the OP and having NO CONTACT, these things will fade. The OP itself will become more of a blurry memory. When these memories come up, do whatever you have to do to stop thinking about them. If the OP pops up in your mind, turn your thoughts to happy memories of times with your spouse. Pick up a book, watch a TV show, read the Bible, call a friend, just try hard not to dwell on them. Again, with this, you will find it easier to do as time passes and there is no contact.

6. Constantly remind yourself of the great things about your spouse, and the not-so-great things about the OP. Be honest with yourself. There are areas that you KNOW your spouse is superior to the OP. If you can't think of any, grab on to ANY positive thing you can think about in regards to your spouse. Think of the things that attracted you to your spouse initially, or that you've always liked or admired or respected about him/her and focus on that. Think on these things. Remind yourself of things about the OP that were definitely negative. Magnify them if you have to. Remind yourself that your spouse have it over the OP big time in a couple of major ways e.g:

i) Your spouse didn't indulge in an A with a married man/women.

ii) They love you enough to want to stay with you and stand by you, in spite of the pain you caused him/her.

The above two things alone show you the kind of love and integrity from your BS.

7. Remind yourself constantly that love is something you DO, not something you feel. Love is meeting someone's needs. Love is action. Feelings come and go...especially fantasy-based and fog-based feelings.

8. Develop a good & strong support system which can help & encourage you to maintain NC and stay committed to it. You can accomplish this by taking the following steps:

i) Be honest & open with your BS. Your S must become your greatest friend and confidant. Your S is the key and most important person who can help you to stay committed and maintain NC with OP.

ii) If you have close friends of the same sex who are trustworthy, religious and set a high importance on M and the well-being of both you and your S, then confided in them. The same goes with family members. On days you feel ‘down’, weak and/or vulnerable to contact OP, you can contact them in stead and go to them for support, go out for a cup of coffee with one of them or whatever.

iii) Seek professional help & support. Go to a trusting, outside person like a Christian counselor/therapist or pastor. Make sure the person you seek out is religious and values the importance of marriage in general and the importance of fidelity in a marriage.

8. Know that there is HOPE! There is definitely hope for your marriage and your feelings for the OP can fade. Keep trying, and don't beat yourself up when you have mental and emotional setbacks, because you will. Just look at the big picture and keep going. Realize that recovery is not necessarily about strength, but most importantly the choice and realization that NC is the only way to go. It’s also about the desire to regain your own integrity in spite of your weakness and temptation to contact the OP during withdrawal and early recovery.

Is it wrong to want to have one last conversation with OM for closure purposes?

You already know the answer to this question.


Yes...it is wrong to want to have one last conversation for "closure" purposes.

The subtle drive behind the desire to end things "properly" is the desire to protect your feelings..the OPs feelings and the affair itself from being sullied by the reality of its nature.

let's think about what closure really means.

It means closed. Done. No more forever.

Every single one of these things can be readily accomplished by permanent NC without one last meeting or phone call explanation or "I will always love you" or "no regrets" or any of the fogbabble "please keep my fantasy nice" verbiage.

Will any of what I have said make you want it less?

Absolutely not.

You will WANT it until your stomach cramps and you cry and feel hopeless and depressed and then keep wanting it until you are sure you can't stand another minute [for 3 to six weeks or until you detox].

This is the nature of addiction. Ugly. Brutal. Selfish.

Yet you stand on the edge looking back and asking...would just one LAST fix really be soooooo bad?

There are a lot of bodies in the ground who asked that very question.

It is all always about choices. It always was.

firsttimer,
This is the first time I posted to you, but I've been following your threads somewhat. I am a FWW just about 2 years past DDay.

This one last conversation that you "want" will not provide you the closure you think you "want". I had an online EA that ended on 12/27/04. I kept thinking I needed closure and there was always one more conversation I felt I needed. This lasted until May '05. FIVE MONTHS I wasted trying to get closure. FIVE MONTHS that greatly hindered my recovery. What did that last conversation get me? NOTHING in terms of recovery! It kept me in the fantasy of the affair. Don't do it firsttimer. Walk away from this and reach true recovery by having total NC once and for all. Once you get past those weeks of withdrawal, you will start to feel better. I've been there and I was a mess with trying to give up this former OM. Now I see the whole thing for what it was and it was a total fantasy. But, you will never see that as long as you are feeding that fantasy by your contacting the OM or by allowing the OM to contact you.

You've received some great advice on this thread to help you through withdrawal. You received great advice to tell your husband everything about the additional contact you had with the OM. You received some great advice about sending a NC letter. You can either take that advice or keep seeking that last contact for closure and prolong this misery you are in. Which do you really want firsttimer? You have this constant underlying thought of the OM right now and that is perfectly NORMAL for where you are because you keep having contact with the OM. I understand that very well, but you will never get past that as long as you are having contact.


Which choice are you going to make today? You can start by making that right choice right now. You can do it and you will make it past this!

What do you hope to achieve? Honestly? What is it you REALLY want from it?

Are you hoping to find out that he misses you as much as you miss him? Isn't THAT really what you want the most? I know it was what I wanted to know most during my WD. I fought w/ everything I had not to contact him to find out. I understand your desire perfectly!

You MUST give this NC a try. You must give it at least 2 months. If at the end of that time, things haven't improved for you, come back here and tell us about it.

You say you want to feel the way you used to towards your H. I understand that. You wish you could go back in time and not do what you've done, but you can't. You can only go forward. NC is the way you do this. It totally sucks, I know! But, you must do it. You have no choice. You know this.

Suck up your feelings. Tough it out. Day by day, moment by moment...it will not always feel like it does now. It will get better.



~ Marsh

Firsttimer, while you’re still in withdrawal from OM & obsessed with him (like you currently are), it’s perfectly normal to “want” to have one last conversation for “closure” purposes, BUT it will be terribly wrong to give in to this desire and follow through on it… Inherently this is a very selfish desire because (as explained by noodle) “the subtle drive behind the desire to end things "properly" is the desire to protect your feelings…the OPs feelings and the affair itself from being sullied by the reality of its nature.” These words are very true Firsttimer…as a FWW I know because I’ve been there myself. A few years back I also had the desire (like you) to have “closure” with OM and ended things “properly”. I gave into this desire and send a “closure” e-mail to OM which he responded to. (If you’re interested you can read all about it HERE.) Initially I felt very good after I’ve send that e-mail and I finally felt we've got the “closure” both of us were looking for, but after some time has passed, I looked back and realized that e-mail I’ve send was a big mistake. To use 2Bnormal’s words - that one last conversation (in my case e-mail) I "wanted" did not really provided the closure I thought I would get. The fact that OM tried to contact me again a few months after that “closure” e-mails and the fact that there was a resumption of the EA a while back, is further proof of this.

Conclusion: “Closure” conversations DOESN’T WORK and such is not in the best interest of you, your H and most importantly YOUR MARRIAGE. The best closure you can get is coming clean with your H & send a NC letter to OM (whether it’s hand-written or by e-mail).

Here is some help (just click on link):

Sample NC-letters

Also read the following Dr Harley have to say about the NC-letter:

”How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.”

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

firsttimer,
I needed to add something regarding what I posted above. I had mentioned that I tried to get closure for 5 months with this former OM. From 1/05 to sometime in 3/05, the OM and I kept contacting each other through our email accounts. It did stop all of a sudden because we told each other we HAD to stop, but there was no closure to it. One day out of the blue in 5/05, the OM sends me an email with an update on a family situation asking me not to reply. I knew right then and there for me to have closure, I had to come clean with my husband about all the "secret" contact I had maintained with the OM, and that my H and I had to write a NC letter. I printed the email from the OM for my H to read and confessed all the additional contact I had with the OM and asked my H to help me by writing a NC letter together to send to the OM. My H followed up this NC letter with a phone call to the OM to be sure he understood the message we sent him.

Firsttimer, the only true closure will be when you come clean with your husband with this additional contact you had with the OM and when you send a NC letter that your husband agrees to. This is the only way that will enable you to move forward and put this behind you. Is it hard? YES! But when you look back on it, you will see it was the best thing for your H and your marriage.

I concur with the above 200%.

Firsttimer, as I've told you before, I had weak moments too and from what happened to me a few months ago (resumption of the EA), I know how easy it is to fall back into that grip… It’s because both me and 2BNormal know and understand your struggles and weaknesses regarding this issue that we feel so STRONGLY about INFORMING your H; keeping NO secrets from him and cut off ALL contact with OM (by sending NC letter approved by your H)... This is precisely what I did after the recent resumption of the EA e.g. I informed my H about everything and send another NC letter to OM (approved by my H). Was it easy to do? NO! Did I hesitate to do it and was I afraid to do it? YES! But I still did it because I knew that those steps would be the only way out of the mess I’ve created for myself; to help correct the wrong choices I’ve made; to protect myself but most importantly, to stay honest and open with my H.

Firsttimer, the longer you're waiting to do this and coming clean with your H about the additional contact, the more you’re piling up continuous betrayal, secrets, lies & deception against your H…and the more difficult it will become for your H to recover and give you another chance. Every single day you postpone this and refuse to do the right thing, is another day of further betrayal against your dear H...and the further you move away from a recovered M and M where there can be true intimacy between you and your H.

2BNormal gave you great advice. Please follow it.

Man, you guys are tough. No closure conversation - I get it. In a way though, it seems like NC is kinda "hiding" from the temptation.

I mean, if you were truly "over" someone, shouldn't you be able to talk or run into them occassionally without a problem?

It just seems like NC is not "dealing" with the issue - just putting your blinders on and saying, "I'm not going to look at you - I'm not going to talk to you and hopefully then, these feelings will just go away."

I just don't feel like I'm confronting or addressing the issue by just ignoring it (him). Thoughts?

You will NEVER be "over" him. He will always have some sort of attraction for you. He is vodka and you are an alcoholic. Cold turkey is the only way.

You're trying to be a cake-eater, and that is not ok here.

Firsttimer, my H is exactly where you are right now. He is in IC and we are in MC with the same therapist....if you are not seeking professional help, you need to asap.

As the BS, I can tell you my WH's struggle is oozing from every pore and I can feel it. It depresses me to no end. I am sure your H can sense it, too. I am confident that if OW were to break NC, my H would not tell me about it. He has never offered any information to me on his own. What you and my H are going through is a completely selfish, self serving, feeling of entitlement thought process. WH is working through this in therapy. It is taking a long time, and I hope you will consider it, if not for yourself, but for your H.

Firsttimer, first you need to remember that the OM is like an addiction to you. It’s the same as a person being addicted to drugs or alcohol. Right? So, let’s take your post above and replace your addiction to the OP with addiction to drugs/alcohol in stead:

[color:"blue"]I mean, if you were truly a rehabilitated alcoholic/drug user, shouldn't you be able to smell the alcohol/drugs or take it occasionally without a problem?

It just seems like not taking alcohol/drugs anymore is not "dealing" with the issue - just putting your blinders on and saying, "I'm not going to look at/smell the drugs/alcohol - I'm not going to take the alcohol/drugs and hopefully then, these craving to get my alcohol/drug fix will just go away."

I just don't feel like I'm confronting or addressing the issue by just stop taking the drugs/alcohol. Thoughts?[/color]

Firsttimer, can you see now that your way of thinking about the OM and how to “deal” with it doesn’t make sense whatsoever and are not logical? Will you tell an alcohol/drug addict or rehabilitated alcohol/drug addict to NOT stay away from alcohol/drugs completely and forever, but in fact encourage them to take the alcohol/drugs because to do otherwise will in your opinion be like “hiding” from the addiction and “putting blinders” on by stop taking alcohol/drugs completely? I don’t think so… But yet you want to do exactly this with your addiction...