I found out that my WH is still seeing the OW. I guess he never stopped. I found an email that was written to him by someone who said, “It was nice meeting you and OW last night.” So he is taking her out in public and introducing her to people. As what, I’m not sure. Wife? Girlfriend? I am devastated.

I asked him last night to move out. I asked him right then at Midnight to leave. He just sat there and did not say a word. I kept saying go pack your bag and I will drive you to the train station….you can stay with OW now….I am letting you be FREE! Still no response, nothing not a word. Finally I got up and went to bed. He slept on the couch.

I did ask him did he have anything to say and he said no. I said so when will you have something to say and he said never. He left today to go to Denver until Sunday. This was a planned trip that I knew about.

I want to do Plan B. I want OUT of the chaos. I want to let him go. How can I make him move out? He just won’t for some reason. Why wouldn’t he WANT to go live with OW.

I could use some advice. Thanks.

Ohhhhhh ..... I so completely feel for you!! I'm in the exact same place! Even right down to the middle-of-the-night confrontation (Except that I already had his bag packed).

My WH resumed his A, also, and also refuses to move out. It's hard, and chaotic, and a cruel roller-coaster.

The reason your WH didn't have anything to say is because he has no idea what he will do. He doesn't have a plan, he wants to always have his cake and eat it too, and you threw a wrench into that. And any response he could have given, anyway, would have just been a bunch of nonsense. Not worth listening to.

I've gotten a LOT of really, really great advice on my thread, so it might be helpful to read it. Also, can you afford to talk to Steve Harley? He's been a lifesaver to me, too.

A few of the biggest things I've learned are:
Take really good care of yourself, this is hard and you need to have all the strength you can.
Focus on your kids, it will help with some of the obsessing about WH.
As hard as it will be, try not to take anything he says to heart, and don't let yourself believe that YOU caused this or that his actions are even about you.

What are your options for convincing him to get out of the house? Have you already exposed to family and friends, etc? What about OW's family? Anyone who could put some pressure on him?

Hang in there! You really can do this .... it's hard, but you'll get there. Enjoy the days with him being gone for now. Try to relax a little and regroup and get your energy back up.

-AmI.

(((((Lost)))))

I thought this in the past and more recently when you described how your H has been treating you. It sounded so familiar..Your feelings were like mine when my H was wayward.

So you've had a D-Day...

No Plan A first before Plan B?

The reason for your H's response?..Because he wanted this to last as long as possible without your discovery. Remember how I told you about my biggest mistake of enabling my H's affair for so long, trying to convince myself that it wasn't happening? Discovery will make things different. He will be forced to come up with some sort of PLAN now. He's been having his FUN..living out his FANTASY...

He couldn't answer your question at that point. That's why he said "NEVER"...He did not want this day to come...CRAZY ALIEN....

So what's YOUR PLAN? I'm not sure that it's PLAN B just yet...Now you have the POWER of INFORMATION. See what his NEXT MOVE will be...

You can now say with conviction that you know that he is having an affair and that you will not tolerate him treating you this way....

You will begin to get STRONGER..

You will HOLD YOUR HEAD UP...

IMO, there is no need for you to actually DO anything right now...

The DISCOVERY is a GOOD THING for you, LOST...

Time to THINK and PLAN before ACTING...

AmI - Thank you for responding. I have been reading your thread. I hope that your WH talks to SH today.

Mimi - I feel like I have been in Plan A for over a year. I found out June 2005 that there was OW. I confronted him and her. WH has always been at home. Sometimes he actually acted liked he really wanted to be here.

This latest discovery feels like the last straw to me. My WH will not talk about OW at all. He says NOTHING! He has never told me he does not love me and he has never told me that he does love her. He says NOTHING when confronted.

I feel like my Plan A was good, but WAY too long. I did not know for sure that the OW still existed. Now I know FOR SURE.

Can you and anyone else help me with a plan from here?

I don't know who to expose to. My WH is retired now and has no job right now so no boss, we have no family that we are close with, and I know NOTHING about the OW. NOTHING, only a first name and email address, that's it.

You said wait for his next move. What if he does nothing? Comes home on Sunday as usual? Acts like nothing is wrong. What do I do?

I know I need a plan, I just don't know how to come up with one.

Lost, why don't you find out who the OW is and see if there are any opportunities to ruin his affair? You can't really do much to save your marriage unless you have all the facts.

Have you really gone all this time and never known who she is? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Why?

Who sent the "nice meeting you..." e-mail? Could you e-mail them back?

Can you get your WH into counseling, where he coudln't just not talk?

Steve has me right now constantly bringing up truth to my WH, along with the message "this is fixable....". So even if your WH doesn't respond, maybe you could try something like that?

You said that WH won't discuss anything about OW .... don't play along with that. Don't pretend like the A is not happening. Relate it to everything. How it will affect the kids, where he will live, what you think a good property division and custody would be. But don't forget the mantra "we can fix this...."

Not sure if this would work for you, and it's not easy. But it might help. Even if he won't respond, he'll hear what you say, and you won't be making it comfortable for him to continue his A.

Just out of curiosity, what was his explanation for where he was that night?

-AmI.

You cannot force him out of the house.

I have a plan that many here would not agree with. I say let him know that you need time to heal yourself and that you will not stand for this behavior. Give him the choice of moving out and you go into plan B or tell him you will file for divorce.

I am just tired of seeing good people trampled on while their partners flaunt their affairs in their face. Do not stand for this... show him you will be disrespected no more.

Stand up and fight for yourself and for your family.

Do your children know about the affair?

What kind of trip is this he is going on? Could she be going with him?

Why is he out socially without you?

Do you know what your legal options are?

So, if no job, what does he do during the day?

It might be a good idea to E-Mail her...let her know that you know that she is having an affair with your H... I don't know what others think. I did something like that. When I suspected the OW, I called her work and spoke with her, telling her my name. That got things cooking with my then avoidant WH.....He knew that I had stopped being PASSIVELY ACCEPTING of his affair...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I agree with MEDC on this...but there's no reason to go ahead and file for divorce...

We are saying that's it's too early YET to even go into PLAN B...

It was not a good PLAN A without full INFORMATION and EXPOSURE as stated by Mel...

Time to get on the WARPATH...

He expects you to remain PASSIVE...

Evidencing your STRENGTH and POWER.. GAINING HIS RESPECT is a HUGE PART OF PLAN A!!!

she feels that she has been in Plan A for a year. She also feels like this is the last straw for her. I would say that helping her become strong again and stopping any more erosion of her feelings for her H would be the exact reason... and hence now would be the time.. for plan B.



The only reason I suggest the filing... if necessary ... is to get him out of the house so she can do an effective plan B.

MEDC...I gotcha....

Lost...waiting for more info. from you...

Folks are asking some good questions....

What kind of lifestyle is this that your WH is leading while he is unemployed?

Do you know where he will be in Denver?

Maybe you need to show up....

my suggestion is not mainstream MB wisdom

here it is

call OW

say to her

"I know you are still having an adulterous affair with my H. I want him out. He refuses to leave. Do you know why he will not move out?"

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I like that Pep! Bull by the [email]b@lls[/email] response there!

Thank you everyone!

Let’s see…yes Mel I have gone all this time NOT knowing who she is. I don’t know why and I don’t even know how to find out. My WH worked in NYC and we live outside of NYC so he commuted every day to work. His work was such that he had very sporadic hours. I can’t go into the city and follow him, I have my children to take care of. I am too broke right now to hire a PI. Any suggestions on HOW I can find out who she is?

My children do not know about the affair. I was thinking I should tell my older children. What do you guys think? I will HAVE to tell them if he moves out.

It’s kind of hard to explain what WH is doing now. He retired from the military and is now doing jobs in the city. Such as Security jobs where he is his own boss, he is doing fundraising for an organization, he is helping to organize the Veterans Day Parade in NYC. So not just a 9-5 job. So he still goes into the city every day.

My WH often goes out without me. He is a party person who has completely disrespected me for the past year. He is VERY good at making up stories about where he is and what he is doing. He is also VERY good at acting like a family man when he needs to.

Last night WH was at a meeting, dinner, for this organization that is doing the parade. I knew about it. Of course was not invited and now I find out OW went with him. I have no clue who the person who wrote him the email is. WH got a new email account, not gov’t related and for the first time in over a year I was able to snoop and find this out. Imagine my surprise when I open the email that says “Nice meeting you and OW(called her by name) last night.

I just don’t know about Plan A any more. I know Mimi said I did not do a good Plan A. I guess it was more like a doormat Plan A, so she is probably right.

I don’t know how to proceed. I know all of this sounds lame. Trust me I have lived it the past year. I now know FOR SURE that my WH has a OW. He can’t deny it any longer, although I am sure he will. He has for the past year so why should that change?

Oh, and I did send her an email today. I felt like I had to do something. Maybe it was't the right thing, but it's done now. It was nice and professional telling her that I will not give up on my marrige to MY HUSBAND.

Pep - Thank you and that is basically what my email to her said. I told her I would not give up on my marriage, but that I have told my WH he is free to move out and in with her. Why won't he do that?

I'm sure she won't respond because she will tell my WH and he will tell her not to.

Wish I could just show up Mimi, but I am in New York!!

He is there for a hockey clinic, but that doesn't mean she did not go with him!

MEDC - I hear what you are saying, but I don't think I will ever file for divorce. My WH will have to do that if he wants out of this marriage. Ok, maybe I shouldn't say NEVER, but at least not yet. Although, it might get him out of the house?

LitC:

Earlier in your post you claim to have confronted him and OW after D-Day. Is it still the same person?

But you need to expose, expose, expose. Contact others in his veterans assoc., Non-profit, etc. to tell you who it is and ask for support. Melody Lane can help with this.

But:

You tell him to leave and he says nothing. You tell him you know and he says nothing. You have even sent the OW an email stating that she can have him. (They are having a good laugh about that!)

Time for teeth in our actions. He knows that you are a paper tiger. Take everthing of his and put it in the garage.

Then tell the children what is going on. Your older children will understand and your 9 year old will need kid gloves, but the truth hurts the WS, and is your ultimate weapon.

Do you know the HOTEL in DENVER where he is staying?

What do you mean by HOCKEY CLINIC?

BTW, if you read up on PLAN A, it also includes NEGOTIATING AN END to the A. You haven't done that part.

Plus, I don't think that Pep's idea is opposed to MB STRATEGY. It would be part of PLAN A.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! As Mortarman would say, time to go into BATTLE!!!

I don't believe in handing your H over without first putting up a FIGHT!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Some nerve of her showing up with him at a PUBLIC FUNCTION.

Wonder if she knows about you? Wonder if she knows that you are still married? There's a good possibility that he lying to her about you or the status of his marriage.

ETA: I tried that packing up the clothes routine. The clothes stayed in the garage in plastic bags until I moved out of the house and my H bought new clothes to wear when he moved in with the OW. So much for that....didn't phase him one bit. It's a good thought, though....

Yes, I know the hotel where he is staying. He is speaking at the USA Hockey coaches clinic.

Negotiating an end to the affair, how? Such as telling him what I want to happen in order for us to work on our marriage? I'm fuzzy on this if you would like to explain further.

I'm sure he must be lying to her, but I did send her an email today so she now knows that he is MARRIED, not SEPARATED or DIVORCED.

I don't believe in handing him over to her either, but I think now is the time for ACTION. I have confronted him so he knows that I know about the affair. I have emailed her so she knows he is married.

I don't want to live in a house with a cheating lying jerk any more. I have tried a lot of things. I have told him that I will not give up on our marriage but I will also not be disrespected any more.

So is Plan B out for me? I just don't know what to do or say when he comes back Sunday. He will more than likely come home like everything is fine. IT"S NOT FINE! He is having an AFFAIR!

How did you get her E-Mail address? I thought someone else E-Mailed him about her.

So do you know her name now and where she lives?

I'm thinking.....

I only know her first name and what I think is her email address. I do not know where she lives or works or even a last name. I know her email address because I found it a year ago and saved it and I assume it is the same one.

I appreciate you thinking!

I get the impression that you have been shutting your eyes to obvious signs that he has been having an affair. I hope I'm not hurting your feelings in saying it this way. I did this myself FOR YEARS. My H has said to me that this made him feel like "I DIDN'T CARE". Any of this fit for you?

I think you need more INFORMATION before going into PLAN B.

Start watching his EVERY MOVE. Be OBSERVANT and NOT REACTIONARY when he returns on Sunday.

You need to do the EXPOSURE.

Lay low and catch them if necessary.

Find as much about her as you can. Who she is, etc....

He's used to your passivity and will assume that you will remain the same way.

Mimi - that doesn't hurt my feelings at all. I think I have always known he was having an affair, I could just never catch him so I would sound like a lunatic if I said anything about a OW because I would always get the standard, there is no OW.

I feel like I have finally caught them. This email that I read is plain evidence that he is having an affair and is taking her out in PUBLIC. I am not sure why I need more information?

I don't see how I can find out anything about her. I do not personally know anyone that knows her.

Exposure is supposed to be to KEY people, right? Well, I don't know her boss or anything about her. I don't know the people WH is working with right now. I understand this is essential, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out WHO to expose to.

I think you're getting great advice from the pros, so I'm just following along .... but the one thing I would say is DON'T try to go to Plan B if you don't think you can get him out of the house. That was a HUGE mistake that I made, and it set me back in a killer way, and has been very hard on me emotionally .... as if this stuff isn't hard enough as it is.

Make sure you will have some teeth to enforce Plan B (separate residences!) before you try to go there.

(And listen to the other people around here on when you should go there or not....)

-AmI.

You really need to know the ENEMY in order to win the WAR.

My H gave me that line about "there is no OW", too, Lost.

You know anybody whose going to be at the HOCKEY EVENT?

"I found out my H is having an A. Let me know if you see him there with anybody"

Might need to call the hotel staff/convention registration... trying to get in touch with "Mrs. Lost"...

AmI - thank you! I understand what you are saying. I just am going to have a VERY hard time living in the same house with him now that I KNOW he is having an affair. I suspected before but now I KNOW. I do not think my WH will ever move out so I don't know if I will ever be able to do Plan B.

Right now I am shattered but holding up ok.

I'm going to go back and re-read your thread and see what advice you have been given about how to handle your WH while still in the home.

Thank you again for responding. I appreciate it!

I understand Mimi, I just don't know how to find out about the enemy.

She has an AOL address so I have been trying to figure out how to search for members on AOL. I was hoping I could find something by using the email address but no luck so far.

I don't know anyone going to the hockey clinic but I will call the hotel tomorrow morning when I know that WH is giving his speech and see if she answers the phone.

Please don't give up on me guys!

I have to go fix dinner for the kids and take my son to a soccer game at school. I will be online later. I know it's Friday night and many of you won't but I hope you check in on me.

Thanks!!!

(((lost)))
I am so glad you found out. Limbo is done. Now you know. No more self-doubt. I'm so mad! How dare he do this....and for so long. Do you know the person that sent the email saying it was nice to meet OW? copy everything before he has a chance to get rid of it? Can you do a member search for profile on aol? If you call the hotel and she doesn't pick up...can you call the hotel desk and ask how many people are registared to the room? While he is gone...INSTALL a keylogger!

It really burns me up that he has left you home to care for harth and home while he is partying it up in NYC w/ OW. My FWH use to have lots of legimate meetings scheduled they always last so long...oh yeah he was meeting her right after.

Keep posting. I'll check in over the weekend.

Try looking her up on AOL and see if she has a profile. The OW in my case was dumb enough to have a profile .... she also used her first initial and last name as her screen name .... that's how I tracked her down.

You never know, you might get lucky!

-AmI.

ChaCha - Thanks for stopping in! I am mad too!!! Thanks for being mad for me! I do not know who the person is that sent the email. It is someone that he met at the dinner and INTRODUCED HER to these people. I still can't believe they have been acting like a couple IN PUBLIC...yuck.

I'm still floundering as to what to do next.

My WH meetings ALWAYS go long...wonder why. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I will call the hotel tomorrow.

Any ideas on keyloggers?

Thanks again!

AmI - Thanks! I will try to look her up. I know her first name and her email address. Not sure how far those will get me but I'm going to check it out!

Thanks again!!!

So sorry to lurk here, but this irks me to hear of WS's continuing their stupidity...

So I hope to help by mentioning the "spybuddy" keylogger. It will track internet, chats, keystrokes, you name it...and it fairly reasonably priced (compared to some others) Just "google" "spybuddy" to find...

But be careful, you'll need to use your credit card, perhaps you might want to "borrow" someone else's so this isn't tracked to you.

And aware that this is can be illegal (invasion of privacy).

However, it seems that he uses the computer a lot? This might really get some useful things...

CJ

Can you install a GPS on his car while he is gone ? That way you will know exactly where it is he is going.. might tell you where she lives or works.... Just an idea

You have checked cell phone records, right ?

So sorry you are dealing with this..

((( Lost )))

Sincerely, Carnation

So what about the idea of going to Denver if she answers the phone?

What do others think?

I guess that might be too far-fetched.

Might be Lost's only chance at catching him since he's so elusive in the city.

At least she would know where they are....

I know a site where there are cheap weekend airfares...

Just a thought...

Regarding that Mimi --

is there anyone here on MB who lives near Denver ? Who could help out our angel Lost !!!

carnation

Awwww guys, thanks! I so appreciate all this!

Let's see, my WH does not use a car in the city so a GPS would not work. I can and will install a keylogger. He used to use only his government computer and gov't email account but now that he is retired he does use our laptop some so I may catch something there.

In my opinion I really don't need any more proof than what I just read. My WH took his adultress girlfriend in PUBLIC and flaunted his relationship with her. Catching them in the act would only confirm what I already know. My Wh is having an affair.

I could never go to Denver this weekend. Two kids playing hockey equals 4 games this weekend. That is much more important to me right now.

I am beyond crushed that my WH would flaunt his mistress in public. I am mad right now and although I have cried over this I am not an emotional mess. It is almost a relief to KNOW that the affair is and has been ongoing.

I hope that answers everything. I will go back and read.

I so appreciate all the responses!!

I'm just still confused on what I do NOW. I KNOW WH is having an affair. This is the same person I caught him emailng LAST YEAR.

What a fool I am. He had me believing there was no OW, that he was just confused and not sure about our marriage. All that time we spent time together, he comes home every night, we ran a hockey camp together this summer, he bought me beautiful gifts for my birthday and Christmas, etc...I could go on and on.

ALL the while he had his mistress in his other back pocket. ALL the while he has evidently been parading her to places where people were told she was his girlfriend, wife, I don't know how he introduces her. Pretending to be NOT MARRIED. Pretending he didn't have a wife and three children.

If I didn't know the person he was capable of being I would be throwing in the towel now. I just don't know what to do.

Thanks again everyone!

I hear you, Lost.

The point of catching him in the act is not for PROOF of the Affair. It's for the effect of the EXPOSURE on him and her...takes away the FANTASY aspect of the affair and makes it real..can't PRETEND that they are a NORMAL couple and you do not exist.

I'm kind of biased because I think the times that I caught my H were a couple of the nails on the coffin of his affair. He could no longer DENY that what he was doing was WRONG..given the public spectacle of it all..

It will be important, I think, to rob your H of his SECRECY. He has created a SECRET LIFE that needs to be REVEALED.



You are certainly not alone, Lost. My H followed this same program as your FOR YEARS... Like your H, he denied and denied and I felt like he was emotionally not with me although he was physically present...

Ah, the gifts...that's how he justifies the A to himself...saying to himself that you want the STUFF and not HIM....YUCK...

STANDARD WS SCRIPT...YUCK...

Now I get it Mimi! It's not for the proof...it's for the exposure. I think you are right, it would take the secrecy out of their affair.

I think you said it perfectly, emotionally not with me but physically present.

I don't know why I didn't see until now that he is a standard WS.

Yuck, double yuck!

Nothing new to report. I did call the hotel today and no answer in his room and they said he was the only one in the room. I didn't expect her to be going, but you never know.

He comes home tomorrow night. I need to decide what I am going to do, say, act. I can't just let this go now that I know FOR SURE there is a OW and he is flaunting her in public. The more I think about it the madder I get.

I'll check in later. Hockey tonight!

What do you want to do?

Do you want to work on your marriage?

If so, I recommend a new PLAN A in preparation for PLAN B soon.

This will call for control of your angry feelings..NO YELLING AND/OR SCREAMING...Calmness yet ASSERTIVENESS...

You will be developing your BATTLE PLAN...you don't have enough INFORMATION yet..the word STEVE uses for Ami's situation...

You need to know you legal options..who the OW is..what his reaction will be when he comes home...

You are in charge of your destiny now because of your new MINDSET but you don't have to DO anything YET, IMO.

Check out what Steve has recommended to Ami....

((( Lost )))

I think we have spoke of this before, my son played travel hockey for over 10 years.. gosh we loved it !!
Enjoy the games.

Thank God that Mimi is here to help you... all I have are prayers to offer....

Sincerely, Carnation

Carnation - thank you for the hug! Having support here is very important to me. I have none in real life so your words mean a lot! Hockey is a great sport and both my boys play travel. I would be lost without that! We have so much fun with the teams!

Mimi - Do I want to recover my marriage? My immediate reply would have been yes without thinking before I found out this latest. I am having a hard time getting past this whole double life thing. MY WH took his mistress out in public and pretended he was not married. pretended he did not have a wife and 3 children. I have visions of an Oprah program where I am there and Oprah is asking, you mean you never knew he had a whole other life?

I can't ever Plan B because my WH refuses to move out of our home.

So if I Plan A, what does that involve? I can not and will not accomodate him. I will have a hard time even looking at him when he comes home. Of course I can work on me, but how do I live with this man?

I have read AmI's thread. Her WH at least talked to SH. He has at least admitted to having a OW. My WH will not talk to anyone and he NEVER will admit to having a OW. AmI's WH has agreed to do some reading and learning. Even though he has said he will not give up OW, at least he is doing something she wants him to do. My WH will not TALK about this OW AT ALL. NOTHING. So if he can't even acknowledge this OW how can this issue be addressed?

I KNOW there is a OW. This is a FACT. I KNOW he lies and cheats and is NOT the man I married. HOW do I Plan A this?

I was the person that believe in soulmates. I was the person that could and would hold onto my family with all my might. The protector, the one who would NEVER betray and NEVER let go. Once you have my love you will always have my love, unless you do something to destroy that and that would take a lot. I feel like my WH has crossed this line and I am struggling as to what to do.

I do want to save my marriage. I just need some help doing it.

((((Lost))))

There is NOTHING about your situation that makes you different than any other BW.

You sound almost EXACTLY like me 5 or 6 years ago.

I was the SOCCER MOM. My H had a longstanding SECRET LIFE going on over 2 years. I felt that I had NO CHOICES. I was heavily into DENYING that he was having an A. I saw myself in you many months ago. Do you remember me telling you about how I had made the mistake of ENABLING my H's affair by denying its existence..closing my eyes to the obvious...

Having a DOUBLE LIFE is STANDARD..GARDEN VARIETY INFIDELITY..that's how it's maintained...



You and me and many others would be on Oprah yelling ...NO, I DIDN'T KNOW. Remember, you are not UNIQUE....

I used to say that other stuff like you, too..all the stuff I could NEVER do.. I could NEVER do PLAN B..my H would NEVER talk to Steve Harley...

YOU WILL BE SURPRISED AT WHAT YOU CAN DO....

Your H has you as a part of his whole scheme..setting you up so that you doubt yourself and you feel like you have NO OPTIONS..that is far from the truth..DO NOT BUY INTO THIS MINDSET...

First of all, I know for sure that if he was military, you are entitled to half of his retirement and I'm sure that since you are a SAHM, you are entitled to spousal support or ALIMONY. That certainly will spoil some of their FUN....



Like all of us here did. This was TRUE for ME and all of us here. I'm not sure what your thinking is on this. This is what MBers is all about..doing PLAN A when you definitely know that your H is having an A.

I began PLAN A AFTER finding my H with the OW at a motel. He answered the door in his boxers....



This sounds just like me, too, Lost. I still feel this way and that's why I came to MBers....



Your first step in PLAN A is being RESOLVED to stick up for what you believe in, your marriage..to not sit back and let your H do this to you any longer. No, you will not accomodate him. That's not what PLAN A is all about!! What do you mean you will have a hard time looking at him? Why? Look at him straight in the face and let him know how WRONG, HURTFUL and DISGUSTING he is. He is the one that should have a hard time looking at you straight in the face.



Second step: Realize that Plan A is all about YOU. YOU are correct. You cannot FORCE him to do anything but you can be in charge of yourself.

You will STATE THE FACTS to him regardless of what he says or does not say: "I know that you are having an affair and that is not acceptable to me....say this over and over again if necessary..."You cannot deny this any longer.."

Third step requires CASH. Do you have ANY cash money available to you? You do not have to be OPEN and HONEST with your H about getting this money.

THIS IS WAR! YOU ARE BEGINNING YOUR STRATEGIC PLANNING!!

Excellent post Mimi !!!


carnation

Mimi - Thank you! I don't think I am unique or that my situation is unique, I just thought that most affairs were carried on behind closed doors. I didn't realize that WS flaunt their affair partner in public. I know that WS LIE about their real life, but I never thought my WH would DENY our existance! I never thought he would openly flaunt his mistress and pretend I don't exist. As you can see I am having a hard time with this. If I found out WH was having an affair in secret I would be devastated, but to know that he is having an affair and NOT even trying to keep it a secret to anyone except me is mind blowing to say the least.

You are right, I would be entitled to half his retirement pay and I am sure alimony and child support.

So when do I say those things to him..." I know that you are having an affair and that is not acceptable to me." When exactly do I say that? When I know that's where he is going or when I know that's where he has been?

Should I say something to him when he comes home tonight?

I could get my hands on some cash I think.

I think the problem is I have thought of myself as being in Plan A for the past year. I guess it was just Plan DENIAL. I want to face this head on now that I KNOW the affair is ongoing. I want to make this affair uncomfortable for him.

My WH is VERY good at hiding things. He has this whole other life in the city and I am not a part of any of that.

Stay with me Mimi and anyone else who is reading this. I am trying to tell myself I can do this. I can prepare for battle. I can give my marriage one last chance. I just need some help and encouragement.

I'll stay with you but may have less time TODAY after this post..H has been out of town as is returning shortly... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



Start saying this TONIGHT to him. Practice saying it so that you can be comfortable in saying it. Try not to get into a conversation with him about this. STATE THIS AS FACT. Have conversations about the weather and the hockey meeting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Don't accuse or explain or answer to his denials.

You've got it. You've been in Plan DENIAL. That's where he has wanted you. PLAN A is about YOU and what YOU choose to do to work on your marriage.

The cash is for your Private Investigator...

You will need to catch him in the city and most importantly, you will need to find out WHO SHE IS....

So you want to lay low for awhile..sit back..observe..gather your information....

He will be sloppy, not expecting you to move out of PLAN DENIAL...

Watch him. He will be PLAYING GAMES with you that you had not noticed before but now you will KNOW what's going on...

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER....

ETA: Body stance helps..HOLD YOUR HEAD UP..SHOULDERS HIGH..when talking to him....

Imagine us all standing there around you saying: "YOU GO, GIRL"...

BTW, Don't tell him about the alimony and retirement part.

That's for your own consolation when you start to thinking that you have NO OPTIONS....

Hi Lost,
Glad you are still hanging in there. Mimi is on target w/ the advice she has given. He will expect you to go on the way you have. In the fog...the sense are altered.

When he comes home after being out...sniff the air and say "you smell different....just different" (Orchid's trick)

Check out the other hockey Mom's for support or ride share. That would be a big place for exposure. Wasn't he a coach or something. You'd be surprised how much support is out there. Once word got around after I exposed...an older woman that knows & cares for us both...offered to come over anytime even 2 AM to stay w/ the kids if I wanted to go track him down. A friend from work helped me do some survailence.

Do not be embarrassed or ashamed to ask people for help. You are trying to save your family.

What happened last night when he got home?

I was wondering the same thing. Are you ok Lost??

Hi all!

WH is home from his trip. Acting all happy to see the family. Acting like absolutely nothing happened before he left. I have not said anything to him yet. We talked about the trip, the class, Denver, hockey, everything except the HUGE PINK ELEPHANT in the room!!

I'm not exactly sure when to use the phrase "I know you are having an affair and that is unacceptable to me." MOST if not ALL of the time there are kids around. When should I say this and should it be followed by any relationship conversation or not?

I WANT to say something to him, like I am not going to just let this go. Maybe that is what I should say..." I am not just going to let the information I found out go. I know you are having an affair and that is unacceptable to me." And then not say anything else. Any ideas???

Other than that I am just not sure what to do or how to act. Everything seems the same which I am sure is how he wants it. I'm sure he thinks I will just go back into denial. I can't! I just don't feel like I have a good plan. He is soooo secretive. He tells me a lot about what he does but I KNOW he is leaving out a WHOLE LOT! Like the part where he spend time with his OW.

He went to "work" today. Yea, ok, work. He just spent 2 days without OW, I am sure that is where he is going...YUCK!

You are right -- you need a plan, and you need to take action.

First of all -- have you hired a PI yet?
That should be your first step.

Have you installed the keylogger?
That is your second step.

Is there any reason you can't get BOTH of those done TODAY?
No more procrastinating. Those are YOUR actions and you need to accomplish them immediately. I sense that you are a conflict avoider. You've been talking about them, and thinking about them for days. You've been advised to do it -- you know you should -- but for some reason you haven't done them yet. Why not?

I don't think its necessary for you to confront him right now.

I can see that if you were to confront him with the small amount of information you have, he will deny or make up some story that causes you to doubt your instincts.
Which simply means he goes further underground, and its harder for you to get the information you need.

It also gains you time to gather all of your intellegience so that you can EXPOSE -- which will be your next step. As far as kids being around -- your kids are not little, they should know whats going on. They should be part of your exposure.

In the meantime, what you are doing is fine -- have nice conversations about the weather or whatever. PLAN A...meet his needs, be a great wife.

But get those first two things done -- now.

((((Lost))))
Rinderella is going through something similar on her thread she just found out her WH was in contact w/ OW#1 and he is giving his cell # out to a new woman. You may be able to get something from the advice she is getting.

I would say something like. " I know you went to XXX w/ OW. We are married its unacceptable to date.If our marriage is going to survive you can have no further contact w/ OW." Don't tell him you got it from an email if you haven't already. Let him wonder how you know. Don't ask him questions because he will lie or say nothing...frustrating you further. Get him confused so you can gather info for exposure. The more you can find out about her the better more exposure targets.

Take a deep breath you will get through this.

ETA: I agree w/ Lexxy if you tip your hand too soon he will be on gaurd and will be more difficult to get info. Hold off on confrontation until you have all the evidence you want for exposure.

What are you DOING about this?
Its time to take ACTION.

You need more than a line in an e-mail to expose him.
You could have had him followed today.

Why aren't YOU taking action?

Your older children are exposure targets -- but if you tell them that all of this is based off of an email line "nice to meet you and So-n-So" he will spin that into some other story. And you will be the crazy one.

Get evidence.

I agree with the others. Lay low and get your information.

Hiring a PI in NYC is VERY expensive. So that is the reason I have not hired one yet. Money is VERY tight right now with no steady income coming in. So I am saving here and there to get the money I need. Can a PI find out who she is? He can see them together, take pictures, but can he tell me a name and address and phone number for her?

I have installed a key logger. He is not on our home computers much, but they are installed.

I am a conflict avoider, but I am trying not to be. I guess right now I feel like if I say nothing to him I am once again being a CA. In my mind I feel like I have all the information I need. My WH is having an affair. He brought his OW out in public and introduced her to his collegues. What more do I need to know?

Exposure will be the challenge. Finding people to expose to. I believe exposure is for those that can help make a difference in our situation. Not just to tell everyone I know. I will make a list of people I will expose to.

I think one problem is I am having a hard time doing Plan A. I am having a hard time meeting his needs. Right now I am having a hard time even looking at him. I am angry right now. I don't show it, but I am. I am nice and pleasant. We have conversation. I am a good wife. I just don't feel like he deserves a good wife right now.

I know you are all thinking, well do you want to save your marriage or not. I do. I just need to come to grips with all of this AGAIN. Last year I found out about OW. I was stupid to think it ever stopped.

I know some of you will be frustrated with me, but I am going to try this time. I just need to convince myself it is worth it. I honestly think the only thing that will possibly help is Plan B. M WH does not want to lose his family. He does not want to move out. He wants BOTH of us and I am NOT willing to share.

You can't do plan B yet. Nope.
Your next step is EXPOSURE.

You have all the information YOU need.
You do NOT have all the information OTHERS will need to believe you over him.

You simply MUST get more information before you can expose this. Obviously he is not going to cave in and admit everything -- from your confrontation prior to his trip is obvious that he's going to go silent on you. The next step is that he will come up with a story to cover his tracks.

So is a PI more expensive than a divorce? Put things into perspective! Get creative -- find someone just getting into the business. Do what you can through phone records, bank statements etc. Go to the Snooping 101 thread.

PI's are always expensive. There are other tools at your diposal. Use zabasearch.com to see if you can pull up any info on the OW.

Make an exposure plan, secure your finances, setup your personal support group, identify your boundaries, reassure your children of your love and support, make your children part of your support group and be a part of theirs. Get IC for you and the children.

As for dealing with the WS who is smug about his A? He thinks he is fooling you but he isn't. Use that to your advantage. I used to do things like sniff the air and ask if he could smell that strange awful stench. Of course he couldn't. I was referring to the A and he wanted to pretend there wasn't one. But I knew better so the 'stench' stayed and I reminded him of it periodically. It became the way I vented on him and it drove him nuts. Eventually he said his nose must not be working right. Well at least he admitted something wasn't right on him. That was a start and eventually the rest of his senses were put to the test. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Slow and steady. Remember plan A is NOT about you fixing him. It is about you helping yourself stay on course. So what is your plan A? Do you have a good MC? Can you call Steve for a plan?

L.

This is a very good thing. Provide opportunity for him to use it. When he is home say you have to run to the store. If there is a night he plans to be home YOU make plans to go out...even if you sit in your car around the corner.(he doesn't have to know that)



He won't allow you to meet his needs because he is in A. Plan A is about making a safe/enjoyable home for your family. WH is not a member of your family your H is. Be the best mother/wife/person you can be...with what you have...your standard not his. YOU need to feel good about yourself and not be at the mercy of his whims.

The more info you can give PI the cheaper it will be. His schedule and routine you know of, cell phone calls, email, check bank and mac card statements for pattern of cash use, check credit card reciepts, set up accounts on line to do this. Part of exposure is exposing OW....bringing reality in...maybe her family wouldn't be thrilled she was spending her time w/another woman's H. I think the keylogger will give you alot. Make it easy for him to use the computer.

Mean while get your ducks in a row. Open a bank account of your own. Apply for a credit card in your name only they have a lot of offers out there for 0% take a cash advance to hire PI. Get a PO Box. Make a yahoo account for yourself.
Find out where his money is and how he is using it.

Plan A....expose...no response>>>>PLAN B.

LitC,

A few thoughts:

PIs are very expensive and the results are more often than not nothing to write home about. Better to watch the key logger for a week or two first.

Save the $ as you are doing but use it to talk to the MB Counseling center instead.

Remember, false recoveries are the norm. Very few WS end the A on D-Day 1.

Bottom line, you know he is having an affair. It does not matter how well he lies about it. You know. We know. God knows.

Your plan should be:

1. Call the Harleys. You will be told when and how to optimally confront, for one thing.
2. Watch the key logger.
3. Prepare for Plan B. Might require talking to an attorney about a legal separation and a court ordered eviction. Plan B accompanied by a restraining order. (Seems you have been doing a pretty good Plan A all along, but let the Harleys judge that.)
4. Lovingly detach. This takes practice.
5. No LBs or DJs. No R talks.
6. Pray.

Oh, see if you can get the Denver hotel bill. All phone calls charged to the room will be on the bill. Also, get access to his cell billing if you do not already have it. (If he will not give it to you, that’s more evidence right there.)

With prayers,

I like Cha-Cha's suggestions.

I also agree with Aphelion regarding calling the Harleys.

However, I think that you need to find out who this woman is. You can specifically ask the PI to help you with this. They have sources. I was specific about what I wanted from the PI which made it less expensive. I did most of the "detective" work on my own..but the PI found ber address, phone number and the car she drove...

I got the impression that Steve agreed with the need to know as much as possible about the OW. He certainly asked me specifics about her. So getting this information will help make the most of a session with him which is also expensive...like the PI.

As someone else has indicated to you, any cash that you can use for these purposes is certainly money well spent...to save your family.....

Hi, Lost.

No advice, just checking in. Did you find a profile for her online at all?

It might be a little late now, but could you reply to the "nice to meet you and OW" e-mail you saw .... as a way of exposing? "Dear ......, Thank you for your kind e-mail, but it confused me. I'm certain you met WH at that event, but I wasn't with him, and my name is Lost, not OW. I was at our home that evening, with our children, keeping his dinner warm..... perhaps you met someone else instead? .... "

Maybe you can start insisting on going to these events with him? He can't be introducing OW around if you're there .... and you may be able to make some new contacts who can help you keep watch when you can't be there?

I really have no idea, I'm just throwing out ideas.

Mostly, just feeling for you! I can imagine how frustrating this must be for you right now.

-AmI.

How are you today?

Still thinking about you...don't make us worry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi Guys! Thanks for caring! No news here. WH is still WH. I have found nothing on the OW yet. Keylogger is showing nothing, yet.

My WH seems as though he is mad at me. Is this because I confronted him and told him I KNOW about OW. And I also sent OW and email saying he is married with 3 children. I'm sure he knows about it. So maybe he is mad about that. He does not say he is mad and he has been home at a very reasonable hour this week, but still his attitude is one of being mad or sad, not sure which.

This is where I struggle because I tend to react to his emotions. I am NOT going to take this personally. I am in the right and he is in the wrong. So I am being my happy go lucky self and trying VERY hard not to let HIS emotions set the mood in the house.

Thanks for checking in on me!! I will try to do a better job of updating! the CA in me would rather read and focus on other people's problems instead of my own!!

Cha Cha - How are you doing? I will find your thread.

AmI - How are you? Will check your thread also.

Mimi - I am going to see if I can get the money to call SH. I think that would be a good idea!

Hi, Lost!

Glad you checked in.

I think that if you are going to be in Plan A, it's got to be about more than just being your cheery self. That's a great start, and being responsible for your own moods and emotions is also huge .... so a big pat on the back for that!

But you also need to have the "stick" part of Plan A. You need to be authentic and real and expose as much as you can. Plan A is about ending the affair, and not enabling it.

I realize that exposure in general is proving to be difficult, hard to find appropriate contacts, etc. But I think part of the exposure needs to be with your WH, too. You don't have to get into a lot of R talk, but you also shouldn't sweep things under the carpet.

Let him know what you know ... dont' worry about his response or lack of one.

"I know that you are having an affair. It is ripping my heart in half."

"I know that you have been presenting yourself as a couple in public with OW, while I am here keeping our home and taking care of our children. I feel betrayed and discarded."

"I am not ok with you continuing to commit adultery."

"I feel very anxious about you going into the city today, I fear that you are planning on meeting with your adultery partner. Will you please give me your schedule for the day?"


I'm the ultimate CA .... so I know it's not easy to get things like this out of your mouth .... LA has been working on me for a VERY, VERY long time trying to help me with this. It's not easy, and I always have to remind myself that if I want O&H, then I have to BE O&H .... and have to give him the information. He needs to know how I feel, and he can't know that if I'm pretending that everything is ok all the time. Your H needs to know, too. I think it's time to start learning how to get those things out of your mouth!

You can do it .... I did!

-AmI.

GREAT!!!!

Even just one session will be well worth it for you!!!

Ask Steve EXACTLY what to SAY and what to DO and he will tell you.

I'll be waiting to hear what Steve says.

Regarding your WH, mainly keep your eyes and ears open.

I think he's waiting for your response because he KNOWS that you contacted the OW.

It might be alright to keep him anxious for a bit. I think that's what you are seeing. He has no idea what you might do so he's not seeing her.

I think you are blowing his mind with your CHEERINESS which is PLAN A at this point.

He probably wants you to blow up at him..which is what he is expecting.

My vote is for calling STEVE ASAP..as in YESTERDAY!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let us know what HE recommends.

So, lost, what are you doing?

Hi LitC,

Just wondering how you are doing.

Hi guys! Thanks for checking in on me! Nothing new to report. Key logger shows nothing yet.

My WH is now being unusually available and nice! He tells me where he is and where he is going. Of course I believe none of it. I mean, anyone can LIE about where they are!

I am not falling for it. I see it as a WH pattern. I found out evidence of his affair and now he is going to be nice to me and try to make me forget. Stupid I am NOT!

I'm still weighing all my options. I guess I am still in Plan A for now.

WH will never move out. I don't really understand why. Classic cake eater I guess.

Thanks for checking on me!

Its a tactic that worked for him before....he's expecting it will again.
The difference will be "you". Are you ready to change this dance? Its really easy to normalize this. Go back and read your first post. There was an awful lot of passion and fire. Where is that now?
I hope you're not settling.

Its OK to analyze your options -- but at the end of that you need to have a plan, and you need action. Whats not OK is to weigh your options and do nothing.

When you first posted about his renewed/continuing affair, I took that to mean that you were going to do something about it -- now its already 2 weeks later and virtually *nothing* has been done, nor do you have a plan.

You said in your earlier posts that last year when you first discovered the affair you confronted them both -- how do you not know who the OW is if you confronted her back then???

I don't mean to scold you Lost -- I just hope you will actively utilize the tools and advice here.

Lost:

My heart literally aches for you. Tears came to my eyes when I read your post.

I have been sooo there where you are and I was so mistaken.

I'm praying that your experience with your H is different than mine was.

I stay on MB to help others.. like you..learn from my mistakes. I wish someone had been around to WARN me as I am warning you..but maybe I wouldn't have listened...

But I do pray for you to be as happy as I am now, Lost.

Believe me and hear me when I say this:

*Denying and enabling his affair increases the likelihood that he will fall more deeply in what he believes to be "in love" with her.
*You will be more attractive and loveable to your H when he begins to RESPECT you.
*NEVER MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE WILL NOT LEAVE YOU..because if he feels that he is IN LOVE with her and wants to be with her..and if he knows that you do not love him enough TO FIGHT for him..TO FIGHT for what is YOURS..he very well MAY LEAVE YOU....

I know this stings. I know this hurts because I LIVED THIS.

I had to HOLD MY HEAD UP.. to STAND UP AND and to FIGHT FOR MY MARRIAGE...

That's what made me turn to this forum on a Christmas Day when my H was acting MEAN AS THE DEVIL for no apparent reason..still saying.."THERE IS NO ONE ELSE"..Oh, how I wanted to believe him...A week later, I caught him with her..all with the eye-opening assistance and encouragement from folks on the MB FORUM...

Being nice, closing my eyes to what he was doing, pretending that it wasn't happening when he PLAYED NICE to me was leading him STRAIGHT TO HER.....

Thanks guys. I DO know that he is playing a game. I am just not buying it this time. I am still deciding if I even WANT my marriage or not.

I DO NOT know who OW is. I have sent her 2 emails, one last year and one a few weeks ago. PI is out of the question for now, but I am saving money for that. I dont need any more proof for myself, but to get proof for further exposure.

Two weeks does not seem like a long time to me to gather my thoughts and make a plan.

Classic MB is Plan A, exposure, Plan B. I feel like I am all Plan A'd out! Exposure has been difficult although I have done what I can with not knowing who the OW is. Plan B is what I want but WH WILL NOT move out. Don't know why.

It amazes me how many people have no morals or values that they KNOW about an affiar and DO NOTHING. People KNOW my WH is married with 3 children, yet CHOOSE to not get involved. I have very little faith in people right now.

Believe me, my eyes aren't closed! I am WIDE AWAKE for the first time in a long time. I am no longer acting with my heart (emotion), but my brain.

I have lost a lot of love for my WH since I found out he took his OW out in public. It makes me sad, because I am a complete romantic and my family is my life.

Thank you for checking in on me!

Hi LITC,

How did you find out? Who told you that took OW out in public? Can you use that person to find out who she it? Or at least start with that person? Just wondering, wish I had more to offer - Dru

((((Lost))))

You did not address me specifically but I was wondering if you think I am beating up on you.

I am not.

I understand completely how you are feeling.

OK. So your eyes aren't closed.

Do you want to talk some more about this?

I have some thoughts.

For starters, do you think that you, your WH or your situation is much different than most others here..different than mine...

I REMAIN A ROMANTIC..so is MY HUSBAND...

I'M SURE he took the FOW out in public zillions of times..he hates to stay inside....

Lost, IMO, your M is far from over unless that is the choice that you are making. If that is your choice, I certainly respect that....

Dru - I do not know the person. I read an email to my WH that said, "It was nice meeting you and OW last night." So my WH took his OW out in public and pretended like he was not married to me but involved with her.

Mimi - No!! I do not feel beaten up by anyone!! I also do not feel like my situation is unique. I KNOW that many WH take their OW out in public. I also know that many WH are much worse than mine. I am just REALLY struggling with the fact that MINE did it. It is going to take me some time to get over the fact that he pretends he is not married. Which means he thinks I don't exist and our 21 year marriage means nothing to him.

I don't want my marriage to be over. I am just trying to get my mind and heart in sync right now.

I welcome ANY and ALL advice, suggestions, 2x4's.

I had a lot of fight in me last year when I found out about OW. I guess I just need to get that fight back. I wasted a lot of time and now I am going to be proactive.

I have already exposed to his brother. That is about it for family. He is a cheater and been married 3 times so no help there! My WH peers don't care. They are the ones he is with when he is with OW.

I guess that's it for now. Thanks again everyone!!

Also, your feelings and thoughts are the same as others, Lost. We understand!!

You said:



I recall saying something like this to one of my GFs early on and she said to me "WHY NOT YOUR HUSBAND?" That really hit me straight in the face. Why not your husband, Lost? Again, I ask, what makes him so special in your mind?

Are you saying that you are still trying to get over the SHOCK? Are you saying that man that you once knew and assumed he was no longer exists? That is true. You have to face that he is NO LONGER YOUR HUSBAND...the HUSBAND that he was prior to his A....

However, HE CAN CHANGE AND BE A BETTER HUSBAND!!! (ark helped me BELIEVE this and it is true)



I don't follow your thinking on this. This is an ASSUMPTION that you are making. IMO, if he is like most other WSes, he wants to BE MARRIED AND HAVE HER TOO. That's what we mean by CAKE-EATING. The FOW in my case even called me HIS WIFE and she considered herself to be his GIRLFRIEND...HIS "WOMAN"...YUCK....

You are very much mistaken that your 21 year marriage means nothing to him. As my H has continued to state, I HOLD HIS PAST. No one can take that away from YOU. No one can erase the MEMORIES of your time together...NO WAY...

Lost, I was married over 25 years when my H had his affair...



Why do you have to WITHHOLD YOUR FEELINGS from him in order to get your mind and heart in sync?

Your feelings JUST ARE....You don't have TO DO anything right now but it's a good start to tell him how you are FEELING...

Lost

You're making some big assumptions here about your H and his presentation of the OW - understandable - but it's not helping you.

You don't have any evidence (or I haven't read it on this thread) that your H was out on the town with OW and being explicitly open that she was his mistress. The email simply records that your H was with a woman of the same name - she might have been introduced as a colleague or a relative. Unless there's more to the email than I've read, there's nothing to suggest the writer of the mail had any reason to suspect an affair.

There's therefore no reason to be furious at the tacit acceptance of his infidelity by 'other people'. It's possible, but your sense of humiliation is something you're whipping yourself into for no concrete reason.

One more point: if you've got the email address of the person who sent the original mail, presumably you could email that person back and ask about what they know? You may get no response, of course, but it seems a good lead. Have you tried doing this?

TA

((( Lost )))

Is there someone there who can follow your WH when he could be going to see her ? or - could you do it yourself from a safe distance ?

carnation

I cornered my h through his credit card. I followed his trail online until it led me to a restaurant . The amount of the bill told me their were two people i even went to the restaurant web site to read the menu.

The next transaction was for a hotel room.

You can pIece together quite a bit of background from the informatIon the statement provides.My h was a classic cake eater and had a secret life that lasted for years he had no intention of leaving home he just took what he wanted and felt entitled to do so.