I found that some of my WW friends are helping her with things like photos to send. Do I confront them and let them know what is going on? The WW got angry when I talked to one of our friends. I talked to them because it was D-Day weekend and I needed someone to talk to. Now this friend is not talking to my wife.

I am wondering if I should let all my WW friends know what is going on? In short she is having an EA on the internet.

I took a big step last night and sent an email to the OM letting him know I knew what was going on and telling him that she is lieing to him. Not sure it will do any good, but it might make him see that she is not truthful with him.

Thanks for the input
Ron

is this clown married? If so, get his information and inform his W. Let your friends know what is going on. Expose to any and everyone that could possibly help bring an end to this A. EVERYONE! This is no time to care about your WW's reaction to you trying to help your M.

And that is bad???????????????

She got angry that you exposed her because she knows how sleazy she looks to others. This friend is not speaking to your W because she doesn't want to associate with cheaters and that is her right.

You should put a keylogger on your computer, having the reports emailed to another email address that you can access on another computer if needed. Then expose the affair. If this creep is married, expose to his W. Expose to your W's friends, her parents, your parents and any other person of influence in your W's life.

Has the OM responded back to your email?

I have decided I need to give this standard advice to every man whose wife is cheating, because they so often seem to lose sight of the goal. To my amazement, most men are TERRIFIED of an angry wife:

The GOAL is to END THE AFFAIR, not to avoid your wife's anger at all costs. If your wife is having an affair and DOES NOT GET ANGRY at you, then you are not doing your job!

Melody,

BRAVO! I think we are seeing two things on these boards. Either it appears a lot of men have a LOT to be apologetic for before the A started or these men have lost most of their self respect.

On second thought it just might be both.

Thank you for all the help. I am responsible for some of this. I did spend a lot of time with my career and ignored her EN. So this EA is partly mine. Yes I am weak as our MC has told me to not pressure her. Not really impressed with this MC but the WW will not go to another.

I do have a key logger on all the computers in the house and they come to my email address. This is how I know most of what is going on with her. For all of it you can read it in Newly betrayed forum.

The OM has not got back to me yet. I am wondering if he is going to reply to me or her. Most likely her. No he is not married, he claims to be single and not dating. He does not live in the same state as us.

I know that she has contacted a Divorce lawyer and wants to file for divorce. To my knowledge has not done it yet. My lawyer has advised me not to move out or I would be gone. I hate that my young children are going through this.

B, all of the claims of the OM are most likely LIES. So investigate whatever he says. I would have him checked out to get the truth. Do a search on him on peoplefinder.com and zabasearch.com and then call his house with your # disguised and ask for Mrs. XYZ. Often, these internet sleazebags are married.


Please find a MC who is QUALIFIED. Yours is not. The affair should be pressured in order to kill it. Most MC know NOTHING about infidelity and are not pro-marriage. Marriage counseling while she is in an affair is absolutely USELESS in the first place. They more often cause more harm than good.

Your best bet to save your marriage is to cause as much trouble as possible in this affair. If you don't, your marriage probably won't make it.


You are not responsible for her affair. She is 100% responsible for her affair. You are 50% responsible for the STATE OF YOUR MARRIAGE, but you can't possibly be responsible over something which you had NO CONTROL. You had no say about her affair so you are not responsible.

betrayed, try using Marriage Builders principles to save your marriage and lose this counselor. Dr. Harley has a very successful track record and it sounds like your MC is clueless. Here are the principles of plan A in a simplified form:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

I have read (finished yesterday) SAA. I am in the process of implementing plan A. Need to stop my anger first. It is hard but I think that I have made a good attempt. I gave her the EN survey and she has not filled it out yet. I will prssure her more tonight about it.

I need to know what her important EN are before I start working on them. I have stopped bringing up the past and started to inform her Friends about what is going on. I am in the early stages and need the support that is offered here.

I will look the OM up in the internet. To see if I can find anything out about him. I have his email address and I know what city he lives in. He also has his own website. Maybe a search on the owner of the website will reveal his phone number also.

Thank you all for the support
Ron

The OM is from Canada so most of the search engines that I have tried do not search Canada. I will try to get more information on him.

Thank you for the support

Do you have his full name, BIC?

What I would suggest is gathering all the information you can about him and THEN developing an exposure list. It is better to do it in one fell swoop to get the maximum impact rather than dribs and drabs that allow the affairees to recoup.

Good exoposure targets would be the OMW, his parents, your wife's parents and friends, and your pastor if applicable. But first, gather as much information about the OM as you can.

Is she carrying on her affair right in front of you? Or does she hide it? Do you confront her with your knowledge?

I have talked to all her friends and family. They all want to stay neutral. I guess I can respect that but at least they know what is going on.

I have his full name but not the middle name. What is BIC?

Yes she gets on the computer right in front of me and emails him. When I am out of the room and walk in she closes the program on her laptop. She is also chatting with these women online that are conveincing her that she is doing the right thing. They all know what is going on. These online woman are all on her side and they know both of them. She chats with him at work, at home and right in front of me and the kids.

I have confronted her with it all before, the emails, the pictures, the money and told her I knew his name and email address. Showed her the emails and the pictures that I had printed. Told her I was monitoring her email and internet use. Told her I had all her passwords to her myspace site and knew what was going on. They are "just friends".

This just made her change all her accounts and passwords. Deeper into hiding and denial. It forced us into counselling, and her lieing to the counsellor. Now I am not sure what else to do because she knows that I know all about it and the pictures. I have not told her that I am still monitoring her internet use but I think that she suspects. She put a piece of tape with hair on the lid to her laptop. Made me laugh! CSI like

Anyway not sure how much more I can confront her. I would like the counsellor to take a stronger stance. So far the counsellor less then marriage friendly. Maybe I need to get us to call MB counsellor. But I don't think that she will agree to be there.

Thank you for the input and I will do what it takes
Ron

What about disconnecting the internet when she carries on her affair in front of you and the kids? Just unplug the router and tell her that she needs to go somewhere else to carry on her affair. CArrying on her affair in front of you and the children in the family home is profoundly disrespectful. She needs to take it elsewhere.

Can you get the OM's home phone # as I suggested above and call his house?

I have thought about just removing the internet from the house all together. But that means that I can not monitor her keystrokes on her laptop. Her boss is ok with her using the internet as long as the work gets done. So she already spends 8 hours a day while at work online that I am not monitoring.

The OM is in Canada and I need to find search engines that cover Canada. Even though she has asked for his phone number he has not provided it to her on any emails that I have monitored. She currently has her own cell phone account because I was monitoring our joint account.

I have asked her to not use the internet while I am around and she did not use it in front of me for a while, but all that did was make her stay up late 3-4 hours after I went to bed.

This is a tough situation and until the OM breaks it off with her I am sure that it will not end for her. I also need to get her away from these other online woman that are filling her head with non marriage thoughts

Listen to Mel. I can tell you first hand that I let my EX WW threaten me with this and that should I expose her sleazy affair, tell the OMW, and much more. I admit it worked for a while. I thought I would push her over the edge. Well in reality she was already over the edge and what I needed to do was pull her back and not worry about her threats and anger. I finally did after being worried for some time about her reaction. In hindsight I would have been in a much better position to help her get out of the affair if I hadn't procrastinated at all.

It didn't work to win my Ex WW back but I gained a whole boat load of self respect when I started acting and quit reacting. I can tell you that now that we are divorced and I have custody of our son,she may not like everything I say or do (maybe none of the things) but by God in heaven she knows I mean business when I say something or promise to do something. If I told her a her car can fly she would file a flight plan. That's how much she believes what I say. It took me a while to get here and it shouldn't have. You have to help end the affair to have a chance at reconciliation. Do what you need to do and don't worry about threats or other venom coming from her mouth.

BIC, there are plenty of ways to get a phone #. Check directory assistance.

Good news...

I sent the OM a email informing him that she is lieing to him and told him the truth about what was going on.

Being a gentleman he wrote me back and wished me good luck and told me he was not going to email her anymore, have contact with her and removed her as a friend from his myspace account. I hope that he keeps up his end of the deal. But I have no reason to doubt him. I think he was just using her for pictures and money. When confronted by the husband he back down. I hope this is true and he keeps it up. I will monitor to make sure.

Hopefully this is the start of her breaking it off. I guess next comes her depression.

Ron <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great job! It would be a stroke of luck if he actually did what he said, though. They usually don't.

I would still try and get his home phone # so you can call his house to see if he is married. Just think, is you call his house, that will shake him up enough to convey the message that you are serious enough to track him down.

Wow is WW pissed off at me right now. She came home and got immediately on her myspace and noticed that he had removed her. She confronted me and asked me if there is anything that I should tell her. I said Did Jereme delete you? Then she asked what I said to him and I told her that I told him she was married and we were trying to work on our marriage. That we had kids and that I wish he would be a gentleman and stop talking to her. This he has done tonight.

Her friend that is her is also looking at her computer for software. I think that she found it. removing it might be a problem. Maybe tomorrow I will get the divorce papers. The depression/anger sets in fast doesn't it.

Looking for his phone number

Ron

Her friend is in your home looking for software in order to help your W conduct her affair?

Well she just told me this is the last straw and she will be filing for divorce tomorrow. I guess I pushed it too far. Not sure where to turn now.

Ron

Yes and now the friend is staying another day. I guess to help her file the papers to get me out of the house. Not sure what direction I should take now. I need to be strong but I think that the paper work is coming

Ron

You don't need anywhere to "turn," Ron. She is reacting as expected and it will blow over. They all threaten divorce when you interfere in their affair so you will stop interfering. Don't let her scare you and don't let her bait you into a fight.

If she has an affair supporting "friend" in your home, I would politely ask her to leave. She is an enemy of your marriage and your children's family and should not be in your house.

Why is this enemy of your marriage staying under your roof?

STAY FOCUSED, Ron! The goal here is to end the affair and SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE, not to avoid angering your wife at all costs. If your fogged out wife does not get mad at you while she is in an affair, then YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB!!

So, calm down and remember the GOAL: END THE AFFAIR!

I am too polite to ask her to leave. Beside she is from out of town and doesn't have a hotel room.

I guess that I should put my lawyer under a retainer tomorrow just incase.

She is outside right now talking to another marriage buster friend on the phone. So they are grouping together outside and making plans.

Hopefully I can make it through the night. I have controller my anger with her.

WW told me that the problem is not with her online friends the problem is me. She is tired of me and not sure that it will ever work out because we have nothing in common. I think that we have children in common so that is something.

Staying strong with the threats

Ron

Your wife is saying all the exact same things that ALL WS's say when someone interferes with their affair. Do NOT LET IT SCARE YOU. It was an expectation.

Again, Ron, this woman is not your wife's "friend" and is the enemy of your marriage and your children's family. You are responsible for protecting your family from her. Why is she allowed to connive to destroy your family inside the walls of your HOME?

Ron, this woman has crossed the line and needs to leave. She is showing gross disrespect to you and your children with her affair promoting actions.

First thing in the morning, I would move your money to a safe place so she cannot plunder it.

I have already moved all the money out into a separate account. Cancelled all joint credit cards.

Staying strong thanks for bringing me back to the objective here. Stop the affair. I also think that I have his cell phone number. Will call tomorrow to find out.

Stay strong and do not allow her to bait you into a fight! You are doing just fine. If she doesn't get mad, then you are not doing your job!

Melody,
You have been a great help tonight. Thank you for helpign me with this. I am not sure what to do with out you.


Ron

You think it's polite to let someone aid and assist your wife in destroying your family. I can think of a lot of words to describe that enabling behaviour. Polite is not one of them.

Thanks about setting me straight with this. I will do what needs to be done and keep strong.

I betcha there is a REAL GOOD REASON she doesn't have his home phone # and only has his cell phone #. For some reason he does not want your W calling him at home. Can you guess why?

OK BetrayedinCal,

Here's a suggestion.

Go into your bedroom right now. Find that little jar by your wife's bedside table. You know - the one that contains your balls. Get them out and start using them.

You CANNOT save your marriage by enabling your wife's affair.

From ML's post above I presume you have not exposed her affair to OM'sW? That is your first rder of business.

Kahuna,
I have not told his W because I believe that he is not married. But I will try and find out more on him. Do you have a way to search for phone numbers in Canada? That is where he is located. WW is in California.

I have just exposed the affair in deeper detail tonight. I am going to do what ever I can to save this.

Ron

I'll bet you that the reason your wife calls him on his cell is because he has a wife tucked in nice and safe at home.

Do not believe the words of a WS. You can tell they are lying when their lips are moving.

Try this place, Ron: http://www.whitepages.ca/

also try netdetective

I have three phone numbers from whitepages in Canada. I will try and call them tomorrow to see if they are him.

good job! I would suggest disguising your phone # with *67 and asking for "Mrs. OM." If a woman comes to the phone, confirm this is the wife of OM and then give her the facts, along with your name and ph #.

If they say there is no "Mrs. OW," then ask for OM. That would give you a chance to have a discussion with him to reinforce with him that you mean business with him.

Be strong, Ron, you will be just fine! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

you can try this one, too
http://www.canada411.ca/

Well she told me that it is over and she doesn't love me anymore. She asked me to move out and that we can not work on it anymore. She said that OM was one of her best friends and I ruined it. I asked her what are her plans and she said that she doesn't know.

I guess it is going to be divorce paper time

Why should you move out???

Ron - I presume her lips were moving?

Well you people were right the OM went ahead and emailed her. Not a surprise there. But she told him that she is filing the paperwork so I guess that it means that I am close to the end. I guess that I pushed her too hard and did not respect her privacy. I can only hope that Plan B will work better then the plan A has worked so far. I guess the DV paperwork should be delivered any day now. Hope this is what she wants.

Do you think that I should write the OM again and tell him that I know he wrote?

Feeling depressed and hurt again about my future with the WW

Ron

No I think you should find his wife and expose his [censored].

Why are you enabling this and listening to her fog babble?

This isn't the end. Not even close. But you will have to man up if you want to save your marriage and stop doubting your actions and lying down and taking it!!

There is a difference between privacy and secrecy Ron...Here is a post by 2long on that...


Mrs. W

I am going to disagree about contacting this jerk off again. Even though I would not have recommended you doing so in the first place... I would say now that you have, threaten him with exposure... let him know you will stop at nothing to make sure everyone in his life is aware of what he is doing. If he is married, this might scare him off.... BUT follow through with your threat anyway.
As far as your WW... it is time for you to get some balls here and stop blaming yourself for her actions. Your W is acting like a child and you are enabling her. Kick her friend out of the house immediately. Make sure that you speak to an attorney to protect yourself as I have a feeling your W will resort to lies to get you out of the house.... many women do. So, play this very carefully.
MEDC

Ron, you need to CALM DOWN. You very much did the right thing in contacting the OM and you very much did the right thing in snooping on her. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO THE PRIVACY TO HAVE AN AFFAIR!

Your wife is furious that you are interfering with her affair. That is a good thing. She is threatening D so that you will stop interfering with her affair. She will threaten divorce, say she doesnt love you, say it's "all over," blah, blah, blah, blah..... Don't pay it any mind.

Just calm down and KEEP YOUR FOCUS on your PLAN. Your plan is to save your marriage by busting up this affair. That means that TODAY you call the OM's house and ask for his W. If there is no wife, you speak to HIM as I outlined above.

IF, and when you get D papers, you simply deliver them to your attorney and countersue for ADULTERY naming the OM.

And, in the meantime, you show this "friend, aka enemy of your family, to the door. You should NEVER host under your roof some old harpie is who trying to help destroy you and your family. Kick her sorry [censored] out!

Your biggest enemy right now is your emotional reactions to her every word. She is trying to manipulate you into believing you have done something wrong. Once she sees that you feel "guilty" she will use this as AMMUNITION against you. Don't hand her a loaded gun. STOP REACTING TO HER.

You are dealing with a falling down drunk and if you treat her words as you would those of a falling down drunk, then you will be responding correctly.

Ron,

This is NOT a sprint, it is a marathon. Also remember those are words coming out of her mouth not dagger's. Focus on you, if YOU want your marriage to have a chance to survive then YOU need to MAN UP, that doesn't mean that you go off the handle and threaten or manipulate or the masculine man up, but it means that you know every word she is saying is just words, you know when the fog is risen she will still remember what you did during this time, either she will see a wimpy needy clingy guy or a man she knows stood by and waited for he fog to rise. ITs then HER choice to chose, but also by then you would have created a sense in you that you will survive and be healthy and happy if she CHOOSES not to come back to you. So many have been in your position, I have been there so many times, its not easy what I say you will screw up, its a process though and she wont remember the details she will remember the environment, so yeah you might push too hard one time, retool rethink come up with a more refined strategy but never let up the pressure to save you marriage, in the end that is YOUR choice.

Steps;

1. No more doormat. Put idiot enabling friend to the curb today, not tomorrow, not next week, TODAY!
2. See an attorney and let your WW know that if she wants to talk divorce then she needs to contact him and if she wants to talk M then you are willing and able to talk and listen.
3. Expose this OM for the cheating, lying, home wrecking piece of crap he is. Expose to everyone that may know the liar. Do it sooner than later!!!
4. Continue to read here and take good advice and use it
5. Pray

My friend, I see so much of myself in you it is scary. Look, you're doing things correctly that I failed to do. You have a lawyer, just in case. You protected your finances. I didn't. You haven't revealed how you spy on her, I did.

However, the one thing I do see that you do is react to her words. She will throw all kinds of things at you.

First, DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE! She's the one that effed up, not you.

Second, do not make the divorce process easy for her. She's going to want you to make it easy. She'll advocate a no contest divorce and will use the kids as a justification. She'll say that it will save them the pain of the divorce process. This is nonsense. She simply wants you to make this easy for her.

I want to suggest something to you that will drive her absolutely nuts and really tick her off, but I so wish I had done this myself.

Cancel her myspace account. Since you have access to all her stuff, cancel it. This won't be hard to do since you have access to her e-mail. This will drive her crazy, but who cares. She's ticked anyways.

Also, absolutely follow up on contacting his W, if he's married.

Have you exposed to family?

I was very weak when I went through this. I cowered at her anger and retreated when she threw that anger my way. She threatened and said we would never be friends or be friendly and that there was no way we would get back together if I did the things I needed to do to make it difficult for her. Believe Melodylane! Believe the people that tell you to find your balls. Women have a way of emasculating us when we're insecure.

Finally, throw out her friend. She won't die or starve. Throw her out. I made this mistake with my ex. We hired a nanny who ended up watching the kids while my ex committed adultery. She didn't know this is what my ex was up to, but she was enabling her inadvertently. I should have sent her home to the Czech Republic. She's a great woman and took good care of our kids, but I should never have let her stay when my ex was at her worst.

I didn't man up and it cost me my marriage. If I had manned up and it cost me my marriage anyways I would look back and at least be proud I wasn't a doormat. I look back with shame. Don't make my mistake. Being strong and sticking to what is right will let you look back and be proud of what you did.

Good luck, and don't be me.

Thanks so much, Papaof3! You have been through all this yourself and can be an invaluable resource for him.


Papaof3 is correct. Rest assured that you will not buy her love by appeasing her. She will be only be disgusted if you allow her to run over you. Women DO NOT respect men they can run over! Our love is contingent upon the respect we feel for you, so when you have a notion that appeasement of a fogged out bully will buy you anything other than disgust and revulsion, THINK AGAIN! Women are not attracted to ball-less wonders!

So, don't be a bully, but stand up and be a man. Be FIRM and resolved. She is going to be mad no matter what you do, you might as well salvage your self respect in the bargain.

All I ask is that you don't think you're a special case and that appeasement will work with YOUR wife because the people on this site "just don't know her". This couldn't be further from the truth. If this marriage fails you want to be able to look back and say that you stood up with pride.

What did I do? I literally begged on my knees to please not do this. I'm very ashamed of that now in retrospect.

She would have likely responded to pride and strength, not the crying, begging, whining person I was.

Please, please, please believe the people on this site and follow the advice. Melodylane was trying to tell me back in February what I should do and I didn't listen. I caved and gave her a no contest. Don't do this!

Thank you all it was my emotions getting to me last night. I got a couple of hours of sleep and now I am at work, She confronted me this morning and told me to move out. I showed her where the door is. Her friend is out of the house. I still have to contact the OM. It is hard because I am at work but I am working that way. In mile 1 of 26 and have my stride going. I am trying to stay as strong as I can, but the words cut deep and I am bleeding. I will patch myself up now that I am at work and start again tonight when I get home.

Staying strong for this fight for my wife.

Thank you all for the help you have all been great.

WW did agree this morning to talk to MB counsellors if I pay for it. I am not sure that it will work for her yet, being in the fog but it might.

Thank you all again
Ron

That's actually a very good thing. She is more open to things than my ex was.

Brother, I feel your pain. I was in your shoes. I know exactly what you're going through. Being strong takes work and it goes against everything you're feeling inside. You want to cry, beg, plead. You want to smother and you want to find the magic words that will shake your WW out of her fog.

Trust me when I tell you, you can't. It won't happen. Nothing you say will be welcomed or received.

I was getting the right advice when all this happened to me, but I didn't listen because I was afraid of her wrath.

Good for you telling showing her where the door is. Let HER be the one to leave. Talk to your lawyer about filing a temporary order that makes your kids stay in their home. See if there is a way to guard them from her just taking them without your consent. If you leave, it could be used against you when it comes to custody.

Have you gotten the 180 list? It is important you follow it.

Try to find a way to let your brain override your emotions. Your brain is telling you the right things to do. It is your heart and emotions that are telling you to hang on to your W.

Your W is dead. She no longer exists. She's been replaced by someone who simply looks like her and is using your attachment to that W against you. Don't let her!

If you recover from this, you will have a new W and a new marriage. Hopefully it will be one you are happy to be with and are glad you stuck it out with.

I know it sounds hard when people on here tell you to grow a pair. Trust me, though, nothing is further from the truth. I so don't want to see you make my mistakes.

Go cold on her. Become a mystery. Let her wonder what you're thinking and feeling.

Right now she knows she has you at her beck and call. Take that away. Take away her control.

Please, please, please listen to us. Come back here when you need encouragement. We will be your cheerleaders and guides.

Communicate nothing but positive things to your ex. Say things like, "I know you're very unhappy with me and what has happened in our marriage but I'm committed to making it work and making the necessary changes to save our marriage. I'm going to try whether you're on board or not."

Keep saying such things. Let her know, "I'm not going anywhere and neither are you."

Finally, delete her myspace page! Please, please do this! Go on as if you have no idea how that happened. Just make it so!

Good luck and we're rooting for you.

Remember oscolation, even a dedicated WS will oscolate back to you and away from you, look at HS story he thought he was on the road to recovery and I think most recoveries have false starts, so you need to remember your dealing with an Alien its her boby but not her mind.

She will try to appease you as well making nice but you have to be on guard always

Being strong is the hardest part. My feeling are oscillationing and I want to tell her that I need her. But the 180 list is a big part of it. I need to start being happy and just moving on. This is one of the hardest. The 180 list also says to stop spying. I also need to do that but I find that I have the need to know. It is how I know that she is still with the OM. But if I am not spying I am moving on. I need to just let go and see where it falls and be strong for the children and show them a good time.

Thanks for the input. I am heading home to see what she did today.
Ron

BIC, I wouldn't follow that advice to stop spying. You need to know what she is doing in order to protect yourself. Hang in there and keep watching what she is doing. Be strong and this will blow over!

You have every right to know what is going on don't confuse your actions with hers

Well the axe dropped tonight. She filed for divorce and had a restraining order put on me.

Now it is really really really hard to be strong

I guess I am joining papa as a divorced dad

what was the RO for and how long.

Don't do anything stupid... your not going to join anyone. Your situation is yours. You need to fight and document. You need to be prepared to counter whatever she does. You need to provide more information on your situation.

Look BIC - you really do need to calm down. This is nowhere near over yet. I hope you got your balls before you were kicked out of the house. Did you contact OM'sW yet?

This is a predictable and despicable tactic often used by WW's. Get yourself a tape recorder and see if you can get her to admit that she is lying. I am beginning to think that all WS's should be boiled in oil!
Sorry you are going through this. Get yourself a good lawyer and fight that order. Judges see this all the time. Now, if you have done anything to deserve the order....you might be up the creek. No saying that you cannot file one right back on her as well. You have proof that she is wayward... I suggest that you use it.
Nothing personal... but she sounds like a real winner. Not.

I don't like the way this is said... but BigK hit the nail on the head here. You need to toughen up. Get a high powered lawyer involved now!

No, you are not divorced and this is far from over. This is just your wife's punishment for interfering in her affair. She wants to scare you into complacency so she can get back to flaunting her affair in your home in front of you and your children. How dare you ask her boyfriend to respect your marriage and end his affair with your wife! Just who do you think you are, BIC?

BIC, get with your attorney and whatever you do, don't leave your house. If you leave your house, it will take a court order to get back in and while you are gone, she will be free to carry on her affair while you pay the mortgage and a hotel bill.

Be strong and defend yourself and your family, BIC. You are all they have right now.

Finding the guy is easy if he has a registered web site.

Get SamSpade - a program that allows you to look up ownership of web sites.

Larry

BIC,

This is far from over and the tactic she's using is typical. Right now, more than ever, you need to be strong.

I had people tell me when I was going through this that this is war and she's the enemy. You need to start thinking this way. I'm telling you you absolutely have to or you will be looking back in a few months and kicking yourself for not being stronger and not standing up for yourself and your kids.

She filed for D. So what? Don't make it easy on her. Make her do all the motions and legal actions. This isn't necessarily the end. People reconcile while going through this process.

What was the RO for? Did you do anything?

I would print out all her myspace stuff and take it to your lawyer.

Good luck. This sucks to go through, but you must be strong.

Man Betrayed for your children. Get yourself an attorney, prove that her RO was a ploy and lie and get a temporary hearing asking for custody of the children, child support, access and use of the home, restricted visitation (no adulterous boyfriend around), and more. Get with it!

The RO is to get me out of the house. Because I am angry and she is scared of me. I am going to talk to my attorney today to see if I can counteract it. I have to get out of the house today. It was a tough night last night. I still have not found my balls but I am going to get them off the mantel today and pt them back in place. I have spent this morning with the children and took them to school.

One thing that I need to stop doing is crying. I am an emotional person and this just drives me nuts. every time she talks to me I get so angry and upset I have to leave the room.

I did tell her to do all the work. SHe suggested this morning that we get a mediator? How does this work after she filed? I thought the mediator was before the file and now that she filed it is all lawyers.

Anyway she is hurting me bad. Talking to these online people, have convienced her that she is doing the right thing and needs to be strong. Kind of the opposite of what is going on here. I have a lot of work to do today, had to call in sick to work to take care of things. Need to get sleep, maybe calling the doctor today or an Advil PM tonight.

Thank you all for the help. What is my next step? Is it that I should go Plan B and not talk to her? Or should I stay in plan A for a while and be loving and supportive? I told her that I love her this morning and she said that I just think that I love her and I really don't. She has no desire to work on this with any other counsellors. I asked again this morning if she would join me on MB for a session but she said it will not help.

Off to make phone calls and appointments with the attorney and the doctor. May even call our MC again to see what she thinks we should do with tomorrows appt.

Ron

She also tried to break into my email and myspace account. I don't use common passwords or login so she did not make it.

Ron, the most important thing you must do now is call your attorney to get this RO OVERTURNED and get you back into your house. You don't even want to have to leave your house. If you LEAVE then this will be a NIGHTMARE.

I don't think you understand the urgency of the situation. CALL YOUR ATTORNEY NOW and have that RO overturned! Don't leave your home!

CALM DOWN and stop crying. It is impairing your judgement and making you look unattractive.

If you do call her, I would politely ask for your money back because she has done you a dreadful misservice. She knows nothing about infidelity and has only contributed to your wifes foggy entitlement mentality that has led her to believe she is ENTITLED to carry on an affair right in front of her husband.

p.s. explain to your attorney that your W is having an affair and wants you to leave so she can pursue it. Give him the OM's name and phone # so the atty can take this info before a judge.

I have been in contact with the attorney and have an appt for this afternoon. Hopefully she will calms things down in my head so I am not so much of a basket case. She did the last time that I seen her.

THe WW also told me this morning that things were improving in our marriage and that she was on the fence to making things better until I broke the promise of writing to the OM. I did tell her that I was not going to write him, and I felt that things were getting better until I did what I did to rid him of or lives. The OM has kept up his end of the deal so far by telling her that he is not going to get in the middle of any domestic squabble and he told her to talk to her husband. But she said that this was the last straw and she can no longer trust me and it has to end. She no longer loves me and wants to get me out. I suggested a separation but she will have no part of this.

The MC is more help to me then the marriage. She allows me to talk things out and offers me good suggestion on how to deal with it. Like how to talk and look at the WW with out being angry. Besides the insurance is paying for it nothing out of my pocket.

What do I do now? Where do I go from here. With her lack of emotion towards me and the not wanting to work on the marriage what is next and how does one bring that love back when she said that it is gone.

Ron

Also give him any copies of any evidence you have about the A. The OM, if contacted, is likely to deny that an A happened.

What reason did she give for not wanting you to contact OM? I'm just curious...because YOU AND US know that the real reason was because she didn't want the affair to end. She didn't want to have to face what she did.

Tell her the truth...that the reason you contacted OM was because you could no longer trust HER. That you knew that if you didn't do something, the whole thing was just going to keep going on. Make it clear that YOU know she realized that, but she just didn't want to admit it, perhaps even to herself. Tell her that you went to him because you knew it was the only chance your marriage had, and that there never was any other choice for you once the inappropriate relationship started.

Tell her it's not a matter of her 'trusting' you. It's simply that she is angry that you FOUGHT for your marriage. And that you're going to continue to do so.

Say all of this in a nice quiet tone...and if she yells, let her rant, but DO NOT RESPOND. And then gently go on as though she'd not spoken at all. DO NOT RESPOND IN ANGER. Talk quiet...which forces her to LISTEN to what you're saying.

It probably won't sink in now...but it will later.

Note...one more thing.

ALL of your communication with WW from now on should be just like I described above. NO ANGER. NO YELLING. NO RESPONDING TO HER ATTEMPTS TO BAIT YOU.

Simply talk very very quietly. Make her LISTEN to what you've got to say. The louder she gets, the quieter you get. Try it...it's amazing sometimes.

Ron, your biggest issue is protecting yourself legally and staying in your home. You DO NOT WANT TO SEPERATE. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE EVICTED FROM YOUR HOME! That will be a disaster. Have you attorney do whatever it will take to keep you in your home.

Your W lied to you. Things were not "getting better;" she was having an AFFAIR right under your nose. Things were "better" for her because she could carry on her affair FREELY, IN YOUR HOME, while you sat there LIKE A CHUMP in silence and did absolutely NOTHING to defend your marriage and your children from her sleazy affair.

Your wife is trying to PUNISH you and SCARE you into stopping your interference in her affair. Do you understand this?

If you made a "promise" to not call the OM, then you made a BAD PROMISE. Tell her that the only thing worse than making a bad promise is KEEPING a bad promise. But promise her that you will do what it takes to protect your marriage and family from her affair.

Ron, I am concerned with talk like this that you will do ANYTHING to appease her. Am I correct in this assumption?

Owl, just an fyi, but his WW was openly carrying on her affair in front of him and the children over the internet and the phone. She never pretended like it wasn't happening. Their "marriage counselor" told him to not "put any pressure on the affair."

Essentially, he has been enabling her affair under his own roof.

What we call this around here is: CAKE EATING!

BIC,

Oh, I so see myself in you right now. She is manipulating you by saying things like, "oh, we were doing just fine till you contacted the OM." Those are manipulative statements.

First, get a hold of your emotions. Your emotions are your enemy. If you want to cry, cry, but disappear. Go to the bathroom, the basement, outside. Anywhere she can't see you.

Second, every time you get angry and want to yell at her think about the fact that doing so will justify her RO and she will use it against you. This is now a legal game and every move counts.

Third, your wife is dead. Your marriage is dying. There's hope of resucitating it, but you must get a hold of your emotions and do the tough love. She will cringe and flinch when she sees that this isn't going to be some quick battle and you're not just laying down.

Fourth, keep up the plan A as long as you can.

Fifth, don't get kicked out of the house! You didn't ask for this. You shouldn't have to leave your home.

I went through exactly what you're going through. Exactly except for the RO. She is manipulating you when she says things like, "we were doing well until you (did something she didn't like)."

That's tough love. Keep it up. It feels wrong because she tells you that it is pushing her away, but trust me, it is manipulation.

My ex was furious that I would spy on her.

Look, at this point, what do you have to lose by being strong? She's filed for D.

Let her do the work. If she wants a mediator, let her be the one to find one. When you go, drag your feet. Don't let her take anything.

I gave in and would tell her things like, "keep everything, I don't care. I just want my marriage and my family back!" All while crying.

Don't cry in front of her any more.

I've been through this. I lived what you're going through. Trust me when I tell you that you will regret acting weak a few months from now if you don't follow our advice! Trust your lawyer. She has the emotional separation to think for you. Let her do so and listen!

Good luck. It is a dark road ahead of you, but continue to be strong. Tell her you will work on the marriage but you refuse to go along with her demands for divorce. Everything on that line will be her work to do. You won't participate willingly and all you will participate in is the saving of your marriage.

Take care.

WW still says that they were just friends and nothing was going on. I asked her to explain the letters signed XOXO and the pis of her in the underwear. She still claims that there was nothing going on. That doesn't explain the OM action of not talking to her anymore.

I told her that I no longer trust her and she responds with she can't trust me either. Because of the action that I have taken, reading her email, monitoring her computer, opening my own checking account with money from the joint account and the final thing was the lie that I would not write him.

Most of the time that I talk to her I remain calm and just try to talk. But she then cuts me off spins my words a different way and gets angry and stops listening. I then just remove myself from the room for a while and come back in a few minutes and start over. I do have angry outburst on occasion and am working on stopping those.

I guess it is now in the attorneys hand for a little while. I hate what she is doing to the family and to me.

Working on this marathon but do not see the finish line and I am way behind in the pack of runners.

I guess it will work or it won't and I can only be loving and caring and not fight with her. I know she doesn't love me and wants me out of her life. So right now there is no hope in saving this. That is what I see but I am going to keep working on the save part and maybe after we start the process and she sees what the outcome is going to be.....

But right now she has support from her Mom both financially and emotionally. She said that her mom gave her $10,000 for the attorney fees.

Thanks MIL for helping keep us together.

Wish I could see the future

Ron

Thanks Mel...good point.

The basic premise still applies tho. He couldn't trust her to end the affair...so he took the measures he felt were needed to do so. He should just tell her that point blank and be done with it.

And you're right as usual...this is all straight by the book WS script.

I just want things to get better. I am tired of the pain in my chest, the pain in my head. The pain at work and the pain of coming into this house, the pain that it is causing the children. So you are in a way correct. If I could make the pain go away. That is the balls everyone is talking about, mine are in pain. I don't really want to appease her I just want her to give the marriage a try and right now I do not see her wanting to help the marriage out. She has told me she has no desire to contine on with me. I am shut out of her heart. How do I open it and get back inside or can't I.

Ron, be assured if that she was not very emotionally invested in this affair, that she would not have this reaction. Nor would she mind you snooping on her. She would WELCOME the opportunity to prove her innocence.


Almost all WS' say they do not love their spouses. It means nothing and certainly does not mean your marriage can't be saved.

Papa,
Thanks for the advice. I will and have left the room when I start to cry. I will continue to do this. I will take Melody advice and drag my feet going into the mediator. I am making her do all the foot work and get one. I have told her that I do not want a divorce and that I want to work on the marriage and I get the marriage is over and we need to move on. I keep telling her that I do not want to move on I want to work on the marriage. She told me that I should have listened to her years ago when it started to fall apart. Now she has reached the end and it is over. I told her that I wanted the years that she has had to decide that it is over. Not the month that she has given me.

Thank you for providing me with your insight into wht you did wrong. Hopefully I will make the proper strides and save this.

Ron

Ron, don't even go to the mediator unless you are COURT ORDERED. If you go otherwise, then that is just cooperation. Don't cooperate. A mediator's purpose is to MEDIATE A DIVORCE. You do not want that. Tell her thanks, but no thanks. You are not interested in divorce.

Are you prepared to instruct your attorney to get this RO overturned so you don't have to leave your home?


Please stop listening to her fogged out affair talk. This is what they ALL SAY when you interfere their affairs., It is designed to STOP you from interfering. Treat her as you would a FALLING DOWN DRUNK. Don't take her seriously and don't try to reason with her.

If you will treat her as a falling down drunk and stop reacting to her fogged out cruel words, you will calm down.

Mel,
Thanks I am off to see the attorney. Hope she will have some news for me. If I don't go to the mediator how does she get the court order? I will talk to my lawyer about this.

Thanks
Ron

Ron, the goal of an attorney is to facilitate an AMICABLE DIVORCE. You do not want a divorce and you do not want to make this easy for her. Jsut keep this in mind and tell your attorney what YOU WANT. She works for you!

Let any "mediating" be conducted between your attorneys. That is their job. It is not your job to COOPERATE!

Friend,

I sense you're listening, and I applaud you for that. This is the most horrible and difficult thing you will ever go through, but you're doing the right thing with how you're handling it.

Do not fall for any of her manipulation. She wants you to make it easy. Keep doing what you're doing and keep listening to us.

Don't give her ammunition she can use against you. By this I mean don't cry in front of her, get angry or threaten. She'll try to use this against you.

You will be your own worst enemy in this process.

Document like crazy. This site is decent in terms of keeping a journal, but I recommend going to www.divorcesource.com and use their divorce calendar feature to keep a log of things.

Good luck. I'm sorry you're going through this. I know how terrible it is.

Real simple advice. Get an attorney to deal with fogged out WW and her sh*t. He/She needs to one mean SOB when it comes to divorce. If your WIFE shows her face and wants to discuss marriage then you talk to her with LBing, DJing, etc and begin to use the MB principles to help her.

The wife just came home and said that she is willing to work on this after she got done talking to her lawyer. She stated that I we need to be apart for this to work out. I know I am not allowed to leave the house but what other plans can be made? I work 12 hour days and can not take the kids back and forth from school so she need to handle that. But how about I offer her an apartment?

I need to talk to my lawyer about this in about an hour. to see what the options are. So there is still a little hope in my marriage. Need to stay strong!!!! and not let this sway my thinking

She also offered to go to my parents house for T-giving. I was taking the kids anyway without her. Now she wants to go. Hmm another ploy?

Keep on a strong face and keeping my balls with me.

Ron

No, you don't need to be apart for this to work. You can't very well on a marriage if you aren't THERE. Tell her no thanks to that idea. And don't give her any money to move out.

Please tell me you are not agreeing to this.

As I said, you cannot work on a marriage when you are living apart.

Nobody moves out so they can "work on the marriage".

If you help her move out, you may as well save yourself the trouble and just call your divorce lawyer now.

Repeat after me: SHE WANTS TO MOVE OUT SO SHE CAN SCREW HER BOYFRIEND IN PEACE.

Do you really think that helping her move out will help your marriage??? Women DESPISE men who simply stand there and let them run to another man and don't lift a finger to stop them. And that's exactly what you're doing.

If you want a divorce, then be a sweetie like she wants you to be. Help her find a place and help her move in and help her pay the rent.

If you want a chance at saving your marriage, then do NOTHING to help her move and don't allow one penny of family money to go towards her little love nest.

Dude - what are you THINKIN' here? Have you heard nothing anyone has said???
Mulan

heheheee you're the man, Ron!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Definitely do NOT subsidize her lifestyle while she screws her boyfriend.

What did your lawyer say about getting the RO lifted?

Well it all went well at my lawyers office. She found out that she has not filed the RO or papers for divorce. I thought for sure that I would be getting the RO today.

I was just babbling out loud about the apartment. She told me again that she wants me out of the house and I told her that I am not leaving because we can not work on things if I am gone. I did show her the door if she wants to leave and she said that she can't because of the kids. Hmm but it is ok for me to leave the kids???

WW also told me that she HAS to go to my relatives next week to protect the kids. I asked if she was afraid I might take them. SHe said that I was suicidal? Not sure which of her online "Friends" told her that.

She is soooooo angry tonight that I can not even talk to her. She is physically shaking on the couch in anger I am not going to be in the same room as that devil woman.

Not sure how long it will take but I doubt at this time that she is going to come around anytime soon.

Staying strong and relaxation techniques taught me by my attorney. WHo really likes Willard Harley

Ron

.

uh oh, looks like her little manipulation tactics didn't work!! WHOOPS!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Way to stay strong and firm, my friend! Do you see how this is all SMOKE AND MIRRORs designed to scare you into submission? And you are not falling for it. So just stay strong and don't let her bully you. You have to be there for your kids and aren't going anywhere.

You are doing JUST FINE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good on you, BIC. Don't let her frighten and bully you. That's what she wants and she's REALLY mad now because it's always worked before.

So - expect her to up the ante. Be very, very careful and protect yourself, because she is almost certain to try something else to intimidate you and get her way.

Don't be surprised!
Mulan

Listen to Mel and Mulan..... My EX WW thought she could do the same to me and it worked for a while then I remembered who I was when we met and the game was up. Your WW is peeved because she's not getting her way. Everything is your fault. To ****** with what she wants. Don't you dare let her take these kids anywhere. Don't you leave the home. You get your attorney prepared to deal with her if she ups and tries to run out with the kids.

Stand up and be counted....demand respect and expect respect. Don't argue, LB, DJ or act angry. Be the calm, cool, collected and stable parent here. It will matter no matter how this turns out.

All,
I remained calm tonight for the first time. When she got angry I just told her I will return and talk when the anger is gone. Boy talk about some of the dirtiest looks I have seen in a while. If looks could kill as they say..

Thanks for all the advice my lawyer is ready and is very marriage friendly. She even talks plan A and B. We are still in plan A waiting for her to pull us into the plan B.

I am taking the kids to my sisters in Phx next week while they are out of school. It is her that now wants to go with me because she doesn't trust me with them. I have been around them for 10 years. Never harmed them before but now she is worried.

I will keep my nose clean for what is next. I am sure it will be the Restraining order like her "online friends" told her to get. But my lawyer says it will be hard because I have not done anything to her or the kids

Thanks for the support

Ron

You may even want to consider taping your conversations with her so that it shows your stability and the fact that you don't anger and go off the deep end regardless of her actions and unkind words. This could help negate any RO. Also, as a last resort be prepared to take a polygraph if she tells lies on you and tries to get the RO placed.

Plan A her, don't LB, DJ, etc. You handled the sitch you described very well.

BIC.... lets get one thing straight your wife is still wayward, maybe not active in an affair but she is no where near to going into recovery.

Remember you are looking not at your sweet wife of 10 years but an ALIEN that ate her brain and is now controlling her every move and word out of her mouth.

She will project what ever anyone says to her or whatever she creates in the vast empty space left by the alien. You will hear things liek YOU are crazy and YOU are suicidal and she fears YOU.... as everyone says its her reacting to you not you reacting to her.

You should never react to her, you have to come up with a plan and then execute not waiting for her. If you better yourself, if you make yourself more desireable - ie holding onto your balls, she may come around.

Right now she is running scare, her anger is not necessarily all directed at you, but you have become prime A number one target for things you did and things you never knew about.

This is another reason you have to MAN UP and take it on the chin, if you ever want her to come around you need to show her a man that can be strong and steadfast.

Your starting to do the thing right and your head is getting there, remember you will waver, you will falter that is okay. Step back rethink - retool your approach and come back her and ask question, make statements, rant. Do it her not with the alien.

If you plan on a letter writing campaign to your Wayward don't she wont respond well to your pleadings. If you do decide to right post it here first, proof it, harden it. Its always a good idea if you write something that you leave it there and walk away and when you come back and reread it should still make sense to you, otherwise trash i and rewrite it again.

DO NOT DO anything that enables her, I would insist on her coming to PHX with you, but subtle. If she stayed home by herself her mind would wonder. Take her with you but PLAN A her, no R talk, just be a good husband

Take Care My Friend

BIC - I hope you are sleeping in your bed - do not let her push you out of your bed!!!!

Tell the lawyer to get RO paperwork or custody paperwork ready to file. She threatened, you do. No threats. That w/b warning the WS.

File with the reasons she tried to use against you. It will mean you say she is not fit. Right now as a WS, she is not a fit mother or W. Suicidal? That is what a WS c/b. So she isn't talking about you, she is talking about herself just using your name. Don't be fooled.

Be prepared.

L.

Thank you all for helpig get through this.

I am sleeping in my bed, she is sleeping on a air mattress in the other room. I got a good 6 hours sleep last night because I did not let her get to me. I tried to reason with her but that did not work.

As for the trip to PHX I am sure she will go. I really wnat her there and not the alien eating her brain. But I will be nice and kind to her and make as much GOOD love deposits that I can get in on the trip. I just need to let my family know to treat her with respect and love also. Her family has cut me out I don't want my family to cut her out.

I guess I am ready for what it coming next. Just have no idea what she is pulling today while I am at work. We see the MC tonight. I hope it goes at least ok and she calms her a little.

Keeping a happy strong face and staying in the house. I Do not want a divorce, this will work out. I just need to cut down on the advesarial talk. I do it nicely but sometimes it comes out backwards.

Got to keep my wits alive

Ron

Talk about another weird change in the WW. Last night she ws nice and polite at the MC office. She told the MC that she was going to give this marriage a try and not file for divorce. She actually went home and was nice to me and we talked like we are getting along. We also talked about how to make the room that she was staying in more comfortable getting a real mattress instead of the air bed.

Then I noticed that she was not wearing her wedding ring. Did not mention it to her. She was wearing it the night before. Then about 11pm she came into our bedroom got her "TOY" and took it to her bedroom. Lied to me and told me she was cold and needed another shirt from the drawer. But I could hear the vibration noise coming from the room. Air mattresses do that.

So I am being nice and providing her with the conversation that I hope she needs. Depositing in the love bank.

I have a few questions: Is this another tactic? Is it that she is now back in contact with the OM? Should I ask her about the "TOY" or just drop it. I mean we are not sleeping in the same room and she still will not kiss me. The kids asked her to go to Phx with us next week. So I think that is a reason for the change. The kids are getting to her about the marriage/divorce and daddy not being there.

Thanks for the input I missed you people yesterday.

Ron

What is she saying to her creepy friends on the internet? Do you know?

So she was lying about the RO and filing for divorce?

She is talking about how bad she has it and doen't love me and using the UPH code. I do not know what this means but that is how she refers to me to them. Do you know what UPH is? She also tels them the things that I am doing and giving her the advice that she would be better off without me and the kids will be just fine. Not sure what turned her around last night, to at least talk to me nicely.

Yes she lied about all the stuff. I read it all online that is what she was telling the creepy friends. She used the terms today I filed and got an RO on him. But that turned out false and now that I am not buying into it and told her that I put a retainer down on a Attorney and talked to her for over 2 hours.

She is sweet as can be but still a little on the cold side.

Thank you
Ron

Unbelievable
Phreaking
Husband

I guess that UPH can be either positive or negative. But I would bet that she uses it in the negative when refering to me.

She also asked me last night to separate her cell phone from the main account. Just another way she can hide things with out me knowing the numbers that she is calling. I will stall this for as long as I can. I hate the fact that she still is in the hiding mode from me.

My lawyer also suggested that I stop looking at what she is doing on the computer for a little while. I am not reading the emails and chat discussions anymore but I am looking to see who is emailing her. I have not seen the OM yet. I do stress the YET!

If I am not looking all the time to see what she is doing it keeps my stress level down so I do not get worked up and emotional.

I am going to take this day by day and keep the diary going as to what is happening when.

Hoping that this is a turn around for her and that she is starting to see the light. But I am keeping my eyes open for the signs that she is still doing things and covering them up.

Ron

So here we are living in the same house in different bedrooms. When is the right time to invite her back into our bed? How will I know?

It has only been a week since we went to separate rooms, but I would like to have her back next to me in bed. Should I wait until I can build up my love account. or will the WW just join me on her own.

Thanks
Ron

Ask her to come back into your bed now. And I disagree with the advice you received about not snooping, you need to know what she is doing so you can protect yourself from her machinations.

Has she stopped carrying on her affair right in front of you?


I would explain to her that you have no reason to do this and will leave it on the main account so you can check the calls.

betrayed,

You're not alone. You haven't been abandoned. We're with you to get through this.

Do you have a personal e-mail?

I asked her to join me in bed last night. But she replied that she is ok in the other room. Then she went and got her TOY after she thought I was asleep. It kind of hurts that she would do that. It has been over a month now since we were intimate. Just before the D-Day. I am not going to ask her about it, but I will ask her about how she slept last night.

As for the cell phone.. I am just going to stall on this one. I am working today and tomorrow and then have cubs scouts on Saturday and leaving for Phx on Sunday. Then T-giving, and hopefully it will blow over by then.

As for the OM I have been busy the last few days and haven't had the time to go through the keylogger. It emails them to me once an hour, plus all her emails that go in and out. I will check it out tonight. I am just not going to read indepth. I will jsut scan for the OM emails.

Thanks for the advice.

Thank you. I realize that. I think this is the best site for marriage ever. Thank you all for providing the insight into the books that those of us in a stressful situation forget sometime.

She is being awful nice to me. Or at least she was yesterday, not sure what I will go home to today.

I have posted an email address, but at work I can not check non company email. Someting about virus on the network. Hmm

The affair has stopped right in front of me. Now she hides her computer in her room and only is online when I am not in the house, or I am asleep upstairs. I don't believe that the OM is still writing but I am concerned about the hiding that is still going on and the fact that she wants a separate cell phone account. I am not even sure that she did not take pictures of what she was doing last night. I guess I will have to be on the outlook for those also.

What is next..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Take the batteries out of her toy...maybe she'll return to your bed sooner <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

If she is using wireless you might be able to access your router to see where she's been. I believe it logs the sites visited. Does that comp have the keylogger on it?

Don't cave on the cell phone thing. You can tell her that people without secrets have nothing to hide.

Well I have to confirm this with my lawyer tomorrow but she is telling all her friends online that she filed the papers. Her lawyer also said that she can not make me get out of the house unless I hit her. Well I have not done that. So I have to call my lawyer tomorrow and find out if she did file or not. They can look it up on the computer. This will really piss me off.

No I understand why she is being nice to me. It is not to work things out it is to easy the pain when the papers come. But I am still not leaving even with papers in hand. My Attorney will see to that.

I hate all of this BS

BIC, you reminded me of something that occurred to me today while thinking about your situation. You mentioned before that your W told her internet harpies that she had filed for D and a RO. I think she is lying to them because this is what they want her to do and she wants to please them. If she is lying to her friends to keep them pleased, then this will soon begin to cause conflict between them. Telling them such a big lie will be very hard to maintain and will create a wedge.

Why do you think she is telling the truth today about filing when she wasn't being truthful on Monday about the same thing?

But, maybe she DID file. At least you know what to do, and that is to stay in your home!

Melody,
I think that she is so full of lies that she is going to have a hard time keeping up with them all. She is lying to me and the MC and then telling a different story to her online croonies.

Tonight she told me that I have not been there for her for years and that is why she started writing Om on the internet. I told her that I will become the best husband that she has ever seen if she will just give me the chance and allow us to work on it. I tried to make small talk with her but she said that I was pressuring her. The MC told her to tell me this when I start probign too much or getting on her nerves. SO I backed off and talked about what we should do in Phx next week. Then she asked if the motel that I booked had an internet connection. I told her I am not bringing my computer so she should not bring hers. Lets have a family vacation away from the internet.

Thanks for thinking of me today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Staying strong and getting sleep

The Ws' are babbling junkies. Look she needs a harem to keep her stupidity going.

Go secure your finances immediately. Don't invite the WS to your room. It will get dirty.

Take the batteries out of EVERY toy in your home and vehicles.

If you are as bad as she claims, she s/b running out of there. Use that knowledge and learn how to babble back.

I got so good at RB (reverse babbling), it used to make the WS' head spin. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

U can 2!

L.

I would like to get better at how to build the love bank back up. Now that we are SORT OF talking I would like to concentrate more on the love bank.

I know her top 5 EM are Communication, Financial stabilty, Domestic support, family commitment and recreational companionship.

If I can start concentrating on these maybe I can build some of that love bank back up that I have taken negative over the years. Right now it looks hopeless for us.

She has so much anger over wht I did to break off the Om that it sent me deeper in the red in her bank. Now I just need to work on getting the bank back into the positive.

So please help me with pointers in this direction. Still trying to save what is leftof the marriage and deal with her lies.

Thanks

Finances are secured. This is one thing that PO'd her in the last month. I separated all the checking and credit cards from being joint to just mine.

Taking the batteries out would just force her to put more back in. She also wants to change rooms with me. Right now I am in the master bedroom and she is in the guest room. She wants to swap rooms. I sort of agreed to this, but I still don't want to. I guess I will agree to it if she buys me a bed to sleep on. I am not sleeping on a air mattress.

Reverse babbling. So you have examples? I already have her spinning by being nice to her. She doesn't quite get it. Still blames the affair on the fact that I have not listened for years. She is right but I don't take hints very well. But why not talk about it now and get this on the right track instead of being in the fog and not dealing with it. I am trying I just wish she would. No effort yet on her side. Just pain and anger directed at me.

Thank you for the input

You could try dabbing some varnish or clear nail polish over one of the battery contacts... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Good grief - Plan A is NOT Plan APPEASEMENT. Why on earth should you leave your own bedroom? Just because she wants you to? Isn't she the one that chose to leave your bedroom?


The only person to blame for the A is herself, NOT you. You are 50% responsible for your M, but she's 100% responsible for her A.

Stop appeasing!

betrayedinCal,

Go to orchid's post currently up. She has a link to reverse babble on her signature.

Hmm varnish. I will work on that.

As for the bedroom. I am soooo tired of dealing with her that I think that I can gt better sleep if I have some of my own space. IE the spare room. Right now shw is walking in and out of the room and storming through the door. My God woman I need to get some sleep to keep earning the money. I am not appeasing her but trying to rest myself. I have a long battle ahead and I am already lost 10 pounds and not sleeping more the 5 hours a night. I know my marriage is worth it but I need to look after my health also.

I know I am not to blame for the A but I am to blame for the M. I will take that blame and that is what plan A is all about showing her that I can be the man that she married.

Thanks for that. Will check on the reverse babble.

I am not so sure that the 180 will work. Isn't those things what I have been doing over the years with ignoring her? Aren't some of those things the problem with most marriages or am I looking at them wrong. I thought the Plan A was to provide her what was missing and work on the EN. Not shut her out the way the 180 do. Maybe there is something to those that I am missing.

Will start reading the HNHN book tonight.

Thanks
Ron

You know.. .I'm sure this is all in fun and it is pretty comical to think about, I suppose. But, this type of petty nonsense isn't going to help fix your marriage. Maybe she'll never find out. But, you'll always know you did it and, really, is it worth it? It just doesn't seem like this type of "prank" is going to do anything but add stupid anger to an all ready tragic situation if she finds out. And, if she doesn't, then all you really did was get a little satisfaction/glee at her frustration/misery.

If she's using a vibrator to masterbate then that's better than her getting SF from some other man. If her vibrator "dies" then that doesn't mean that she's going to be willing to share SF with you for the sake of an orgasm -- there's a whole lot more involved for most ~people~ (not just women) than that. Orgasms aren't that hard to achieve.

Anyway, I hope you're just joking and you can roll your eyes and say -- gee, that lady needs to LIGHTEN up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (If you are just joking.. then it is pretty funny to think about stuff like this sometimes but it's not always the most productive thing to do.)


Now this sounds like a much, much better plan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just my $.02 -- I'm going to go lighten up now. *nudge*

Mys

Mys,
It just made me laugh. I have not had very many of those the last few weeks. So to think about her getting all ready to use the toy and then it not work.. Kind of makes me laugh!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes you just need to smile and this is one time. I would not do it, but I can imagine what the expression on her face would be if I did.

I read another forum about the 180 and I think I understand now. It is not about what I have done in the past to her it is showing her that I do not care for her now. Kind of like she does when she states I do not love you, or rolls her eyes when I say I love you. If she is not getting the hug, kiss, words from me. This is what the 180 is all about. Not being mean to her but building the love bank and showing her how strong and non-clingy you are.

Wow BING the light came on today. I need to work this into our trip to Phx next week. 8 hours in the car in a 180 plan A.

Ok now with this 180... She stopped wearing her wedding ring, I am wondering if I should keep mine on. Because, I am still in this marriage or should the 180 thing and take it off?

Looking forward to a night of practicing the 180.

Keep it on. It is a passive way of showing you're committed to the marriage. Don't stoop to her level.

The 180 is about acting the way you did when you first met. Think of it that way. You didn't cling to her then, or beg, or plead.

It's about making her wonder what you're thinking vs ignoring her. There's a difference. Be present, but be more like a friendly roomate that speaks only when spoken to.

Don't think of the 180 as ignoring her. That's not what it is.

So, for example, on your 8 hour drive don't talk about your marriage. Focus on her, perhaps her interests, something interesting with your job, hers? Almost like you're just getting to know her for the first time. You wouldn't bring up heavy stuff on a first date, would you?

Hope that helps.

Mustang,
Great that is going to help a lot. Small talk as I like to call it.

She has said that she wants to see that new Russell Crowe movie. Should I take her? It is a chick flick and would fit into the Recreational emotion? I could get my sister to watch the kids while in Phx.

I was really quiet when I got home. Played with the kids and watched cartoons. Only gave her small yes and short answer responses. Didn't even ask her about her day or tell her goodnight. She did come in the bedroom and say goodnght to me.

She is still telling all her ONLINE croonies that it takes about 2 weeks in Cal for me to get served and that she did file. I guess I will just have to wait and see

I will leave the ring on. Not stooping to her level.

It is funny right now she is putting more air in her air mattress because it has a leak in it. I offered to patch it but she said that it will be ok. SO every night she pumps it up and then sleeps in a hole by morning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> makes me smile knowing she is suffering a little.

Thanks again

DO NOT GIVE HER YOUR BED

Hard to say about the movie. She brought it up, so that's a good thing. I say go for it. But when you're there, and this will be hard, don't try to hold her hand.

I can tell you now you will go through something in the movie unless you prep yourself for it.

You will sit next to her the whole time and be hoping, wishing, starving for her to reach over and grab your arm, hold your hand, lean in.

Don't you do it! Don't be the first one to do it. Let her initiate it.

It sucks. I was there. You want to feel that she wants that affection.

Do your best to sit there and enjoy yourself. Remember, you're pretending to be on a first date or that you're just starting out and are still trying to figure this woman out. Let her give you the signals that she wants you to hold her hand or put your arm around her.

Prepare yourself mentally for it and go in with the attitude that you don't expect her to show you any affection. That will prepare you and keep you from being disappointed if she doesn't. I remember being in a movie with my ex and trying over and over to hint to her I wanted to hold her hand. Mid-movie I thought to myself, "why am I groveling? Just let it go and enjoy the movie!"

It's one of the few times I showed any backbone. I retreated from the other times.

As far as this bed thing goes, does she know she can just come back if she wants? Would you let her?

If SHE takes the initiative, let her. Just don't let her throw you out of your bed or your room.

Keep it up.

As far as whether or not she's filed, who cares. Let's say she did. The divorce process is so long that filing means nothing. Again, drag your feet and do nothing. Make it last as long as possible. Time is your friend. It's what will hopefully get her to come out of the fog if you continue to be strong and good.

We can't promise you anything here. All we can do is hope the fog lifts before it's too late. But this epiphany that we hope you have or at least pretend you do is what will make her be attracted to you again.

Start socializing. For example, if a group of people are getting together and you want to go, go. Ask her if she'd like to join you. If she doesn't, go anyways.

Enjoy your trip. I hope it goes well and you guys can reconnect.

BIC, the reason we don't want you to give up your bed is because you would be protecting her from the consequences of her choices. She should suffer the full force of her decisions. If she wants to sleep seperately, then she should be the one to sleep on the damn floor. You should not be punished for her decisions.

So, tell her you have changed your mind, you have grown quite partial to your own bed. And you would love to have her join you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok I will see if my sister will watch the kids and take her to an afternoon movie as friends. I will get separate sodas and popcorn. I will expect nothing and more then likely get nothing from her.

Yes I have invited her back into the bed more then once. SHe refuses and I told her that the door is always open if and when she wants to join me. I sort of told her the other night that I wanted to stay in my bed and she huffed FINE!

I am in the same boat about the filing. If she did I will get the paper and then talk to my Attorney. If she didn't that just means tha she is sort of willing to work on it and is lying to the people online. So what ever happens happens and my feet are so heavy I can hardly lift them to walk. Draggin them along.

Socializing. I am a Free Mason and I have decided that I am going to start going back to the lodge as much as I can. Gets me away from the house at night while she is doing the online thing. Plus the boys at work always want to go out for drinks after work. Hey I can't have the drink because of the lexapro but I can drink water. I think that the lexapro is starting to work better also. Been on it for 4 weeks now and mood is feeling much better. Have you noticed that I am not as depressed in my messages? I don't feel so down either and a lot stronger and my head is in this now and not so much of my heart.

Thank you all for the input.

Back later

Wish me luck I am off to See my family in the morning. I will be away from my computer for a few days which means she will also be away from hers for a few days.

Long quiet trip is what I predict. But I will work on my communication small talk. Time away with the kids might be good for her fog and anger

Thanks

Actually, when my then WW came home, she was really pissed that I wanted to sleep in the same bed. So for 1 night I slept in my office. The next day I thought WTF am I doing? I was not the one that had an affair. So the next morning I told her I intended on sleeping in our bed from that night. If she didn't want to be in bed with me she could sleep elsewhere. So she slept in the study. That lasted 1 night and she was back in our bed. Electric fence down the middle LOL. Point being, it's your bed too. If she won't share it with you, she leaves and sleeps elsewhere.

Well I am back from the trip to my family's house. She was of course the cold person that I expected her to be. She put on the good face for my parents and then as soon as we left them she was cold and did not talk to me. Which is OK I did not talk to her anyway.

I found out that the paperwork is ready but she is not going to file until after Christmas. FOR THE KIDS! Or that is what she is telling those online croons from another website that are telling her to leave me.

She is out right now buying a new air mattress because the one that she has is leaking. I did not offer to buy it, but I did offer to go with her. She of course refuse.

The way she talks about me with her friends really hurts. " I have to put on a happy face for his F***ing family. I would not be there if is wasn't for the kids. I would rather sleep on the floor then with that [email]A@@hole.[/email]

So I am not sure what to do here. I am keeping up the 180 and trying slight EN. But not too much. She would not talk to me all the way to/from my parents. Just sat there staring out the window. I have about a month to be my best and win her back over. But those woman are not helping. I need some support and what to do. If the paperwork is filed in Jan 07, I am sure that she will have me out shortly after that.

Should I buy her a Christmas present? Maybe a gift card session on MB conselling?

Seeing my MC alone next week. Thought for sure that she was going to have me served the way she did not want to go to the session. Is there anything that I should have the MC help me with? Not sure that she will but I have a hour to talk all alone.

Thank for the help
BIC

hey BIC my email is bobbym77@yahoo.com, drop me a line in email or Yahoo instant messengers, i have a few questions...

Best of Luck

Just found out that the WW is sending snail mail to the OM. She sent the first one the other day. So far he has not written back. Not sure if she has a PO box or not. But she bought 10 international stamps and plans on sending him 10 letters. I sure hope that he keeps up his end of the deal and does not write her back. I also found out that he is dating someone.

Don't get her MB counseling for Christmas. Get her something nice.

In the meantime, what are you doing to take care of YOU? It can't be pleasant being around your wife.

Nice?

I am doing what I can exercise spending time with the kids and hangin out with friends and talking with family.

No it is not nice to be around her

Ok I am confused. Today she got out of bed and walked around all morning with her Football jersey on. No shorts, just underwear. She sat around the house in this until lunch time.

She even started talking to me. But I was giving her the reverse babble and the 180. I gave short answers and sometimes even ignored her. As that is the way she treated me all weekend at my parents.

She still is in her own room but why flaunt her body?

Confused BS, wondering what the WW is up to now

R

Your RB and 180 are good tools. If the view is making you weak, refocus. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

She c/b testing you.

L.

I tried not to look. I even took the vacuum cleaner apart. Told her I thought the belt was loose and needed to check it. I was cleaning the house a little and it has a funny smell.

Now she wants to know what my plans were for Christmas. I told her that I was planning on doing what we do every year. Christmas here and then go to her moms house. That is if I am still welcome in MIL house. I asked her if I should call and check and she said that she would.

But then again she is so full of lies I am not sure what she is telling her. She told all the online people that she is chatting with that she won money at the race track (my Step dad gave us a tour he works there) No-one won money. She even is making up names of horses to tell her OM.

The lies and more lies. When do they stop the lies? Will she ever be honest?

Thanks
R

Call your in-laws, let them know about her 'winnings' and ask about their Christmas plans. Say with all that has been going on, you were wondering.

L.

Thanks I will call to see what are the plans and if I am still invited.

The 180 must be working. She asked me just now how come I look like I do not care anymore. I told her I cared but I thought this is what she wanted. Doesn't want me to crowd her or be clingy. So I am giving her what she wants. I told her I have to get my feelings together about her. She said that my words do not match my actions. I say I want to stay together but act like I am distancing myself. Isn't this what the plan A 180 is all about?

More fun on Thanksgiving

I would keep very busy. Also give her compliments and admiration. It sounds like she is missing that. But I wouldn't dwell on them. Tell her she is beautiful, and then go somewhere with the kids.

I have been doing that. I tell her every day how good she looks in her clothes. She is loosing weight so I compliment her on that if she is wearing loose clothes.

I used to tell her I loved her but she doesn't want to hear that anymore.

I hope that she is lying to her online people about filing after the first of the year. She told the MC she was not going to YET and give it time to repair. She also is telling her online woman that her mom is paying for the lawyer for Christmas. Not sure who to believe, but I am reading above comments to her online woman. She tells me and the MC one thing and then tells the online woman something else.

The way she is acting I think that she is waiting to file and lying to me and the MC. But I don't know for sure.

Confused BS playing the waiting game
R

If you live in California, and she does file, it will take many months if you don't agree. Plus it can be very expensive. The retainer only covers filing, then there are court dates, family counseling, and on and on.

Hopefully she will snap out of it by then.

I know it can take months and be expensive. But I do not want to go so far in debt because of this that I can not get out for years. I have my lawyer and it cost lots of money already and I have only talked to her for a couple hours. My lawyer says that we are not ready for divorce and she thinks that we can work it out. But WW lawyer (according to her online post) has drawn up the paperwork already. She is calling him on Monday.

I am hoping that MIL will not fund the entire divorce. That would devastate me financially.

I know I need to stall along the way. Need to work on my love bank deposits to see if she can change her mind. Not sure if I am doing the right thing with the 180 tactics. But I will keep it up it seems to have an affect.


r

I live in Oceanside - maybe near you.

Is there NC between your wife and the OM?

Does your wife work outside the home?

betray... the only thing I can say is that she is lieing to the OM and other online people and lieing to you that you have the choice to stay until she stops lieing. My WW lies to everyone, including herself - no joke. So the fake friends and the OM once they get bit a few times by her they will stop believing her... you have the choice to know she lies and stay until you see that change or you decide it wont

there is NC between her and OM as far as I can since I contacted him. He agreed that she has lied to him and that he will not contact her anymore. This is what pushed her over the edge the last time and cause her to get a lawyer. It has only been one week since that time. She doesn't seem as angry this week as she did last. But she is making attempts to contact OM. I know she sent him emails and snail mails and he has not replied YET! Doesn't mean he won't. I heard that he has a new girl friend.

But she is at least speaking to me somewhat today.

R

This is a very blantant "in-your-face" attitude your wife is demonstrating. She is angry at you and wants to hurt you with the affair by flaunting it right in front of you.

Most affairs are kept very secretive and underground, its part of the allure. But your wife wants you to know. Its a statement she's making and the message is intended for and sent to you.

JMVHO, thought you should take this into account when you plan your strategy.

Are you saying that she is crying out and wants me to know. Maybe so I will pay more attention. Or is it hey I am going to do this and you can't do a thing to stop it.

Not sure what kind of strategy I need to take for this in your face stuff.

r

Read Res' post again. She continued by saying the WS wants to hurt you. Something your real W would not have done, right?

So what r u t/d? Protect yourself. Distance yourself. Take care of yourself. Realize you can't teach or help a WS.

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. When she starts coming around, you are gonna need it because she will stress test every bone in your body.....and NOT in a good way.

Be prepared.

L.

I think your Plan A strategy should be to try and meet her most important emotional needs, of course. But, I'd also contemplate why she's angry enough to want to hurt you by flaunting her affair in front of you.

Perhaps it's to garner your attention which may have been missing pre-affair. Or perhaps its for other reasons. But by your account of her behavior, she hasn't tried to hide it, quite the contrary. And THAT is a statement directed at you.

BIC,

I have a couple questions.

On a scale from 1 - 10 (10 highest), where would you gauge your respect for your wife?

And then second question. On that same scale, where would you say your wife's respect for you would be?

Jo

I am sort of getting this. The flaunting to is hurt me and call out for something that was missing.

I have been nice to her today. Fixed her computer (after I shut down her network but she doesn't know that), made the turkey (deep fried Yummy), thanked her for dinner, and fixed the vacuum. Lots of domestic there. I have done a lot of talking today and she is talking back nicely. About kids and Christmas. She is actually smiling right now instead of that distance stare. Keeping my eyes open to see if this is a trick or not.

thanks for helping and pointing things out that I have missed.

Right now she is chatting with her online woman divorce support group. Or her Friends!!
r

Shoot, The OM just contacted WW in MSN chat!! I guess he doesnt keep up his end of the word. I am not sure that writing him again would help. Now what direction to take. I am doing the 180 and she is happy because OM is talking to her again.

Here is a snippit from her chat starts with her:
so... I think we're gonna stay together till after Christmas... cuz of the kids
well of course together is a relative term... I mean we're not together now
right
separate rooms and everything
but i think I can tolerate it for the sake of the kidsright
and binks will be here... and then Holly will be here
so something to look forward to anyway
ok... I should get back to cooking I guess
lol
woooooahhhh
I just got a message from J
OMG
OMG
just said thanks for the letter and happy thanksgiving
so that's good... right?
OMG... he's on MSN
OMG>..
I am
lol


Crap I am soooo Po'd right now

You know you have a WS in the house right? That means she will do many things to pizz u off.

When you regain your composure (re: those d/ds have a way of knocking the BS for a loop), ask her where do the divorce friends get their info? Don't give her any options, let her tell you. You may have to wait a while (days or even weeks) for her to respond but it may have her thinking and that's a good thing.

Stratagize.

L.

Hmm... why would you believe that someone that had an A with your W could be trusted?

You can capture the entire chat if you enable the message history option. Tools..Options..General - look for the "automatically keep a history of my conversations" checkbox.

1. I would say a 5. DO to the lies

2 With the converstaions that she has with her friends 2

Why?

R

They are all going by personal experience on the divorce thing. But I will ask her.

Oh I didn't think the NC with the OM would last. But I read that he had another GF and might be sleeping with her. Wife chatting with another. It just seems funny to me that when the WW wrote him and told him that she won money, he wrote back. She has already sent him $300 that I know of. So more money in his future and he writes back. Wonder why he is keeping the EA up? Using her and all the other divorce woman that my wife chats with for the money.

No I can't get both sides of the chat. She is now hiding her computer. Today she went shopping and took it with her to keep it from me.

Staying strong and having fun with children today

R

She is such a liar. Now she is telling all her online people that she made a homemade pumpkin pie. Yes if the grocery store is homemade? Plus she is talking about buying a house with her sister. Her sister is married? Why would she buy a house with her? Man the lies she tells these people just keep building and building. When will the bubble burst? How can I expose the lies to these friends? They all ready think that I am the bad guy so they won't believe me anyway.

Lies lies and more lies. Can't wait to see what comes around the corner next.

R

At least she is telling them that things are getting better here for her. She is telling them that I am accepting what is about to happen (divorce). No I hate to tell her but things are improving because I am doing a plan A 180. I am getting myself ready and building a few love banks deposits in the mean time. Hey she told them she bought me a Christmas present. After telling then the other day that she wasn't. I am just the UPH to her.

Tonight I am POUTING according to her because she TOLD ME (ask from what I remember) that she was DOING movie chat and if I didn't like it I could go upstairs to watch TV.
I told her I wanted to watch Basketball and I know she does not like it and I told her I would let her have the Main TV and I would watch upstairs. Boy how the stories are different online to her "friends"

I am glad that I can see the affect of what I am doing. Two weeks on plan A and one on 180 and she can already tell that I am different and she likes it. Or so she is telling her "friends"

Just wish I knew which lies were true and which one are false. Or I will take them all as false?

Thanks for all the help keep it up
R

Why haven't you locked down your wireless router security by password protecting it so she can't get on the internet?

I change the password every day to throw her for a loop. tell her that I think the router is failing. That way when I go to work and it "fails" she will not be able to ignore the children all day and chat.

I am currently working on blocking sites with out the router telling her that it was blocked. Make it look like the site is down.

r

Boy thrown for a loop again. This morning she asked me what night I have off next week. I told her all but Cub Scout night . She suggested that her mom watch the kids so we can go out to dinner alone? I didn't ask she did. Going to have to be on my best behavior for this. That is if she is not doing it to push my buttons and irk me again.

Kind of surprised me. Another alien being Yikes!!

Any advice on what to talk about? I know not the problems, and make it like a first date.

Plan A with a 180 must be driving her nuts. But I have to keep in mind the OM is back in contact, I have only seen one email from him. But that doesn't mean that there isn't more. Plus she snail mailed him with her Moms address.

r

Gosh, you're a smart guy!

~ Marsh

Marsh,
Thanks I think it as being sly without being seen as the bad guy. It is easier to blame it in the router then tell her what I am up to. Got to protect my kids when I am not at home. And if the addict can't get her FIX online, she has to do something else...like clean the house and watch the kids and fix them dinner. I don't mean a box a Mac-n-cheese.

r

Morning BIC,

I asked about the respect thing because being on this board for so long its become my observation that cheating wives who don't respect their husbands may behave as your wife, IOW not hiding any of her adultery actvities. But instead, rubbing your nose in it.

I'm sorry if this sounds blunt and if it hurts you. I think its important you understand the dynamics of your wife's behavior and why she is so blatant with her bad choices targeted to hurt you.

Also, you might start thinking about removing the computer from your home alltogether. Your wife's attachment to not only the OM, but to complete strangers (chat folks) across the internet is an addiction in of itself, and is dangerous to your family in general. Who knows how much personal or ID sensitive information she has shared with complete strangers, some of them with questionable motives. And I haven't even started with how its of danger to your children.

Jo

Yes, you are playing this perfectly. Your plan is brillant!

The less time she is in La La land the more time she will be spending in the real world.

And heck yeah, taking care of her family should be her top priority.

~ Marsh

PS: LOL @ your WW's idea of making a pumpkin pie from scratch.

One time I was talking to my sister and she told me she was making hamburgers from scratch.

And I thought, Wow! And asked her, "Did you get a meat grinder, buy some choice steak and make your own hamburger meat?"

She replied in a very sheepish voice, "Ummmmm, no, instead of buying the paddies already made, I bought a package of hamburger meat and formed my own."

LMAO!

Amen.

Darn it was hard to maintain today so far.

She ask me why I am being so distant with her.
Her words: One week I am smothering her and the next not giving her the time of day and being cold.
My words: I am just giving you what you asked for. For me to give you room
Her words: Isn't there a happy middle?
My Words: I am not sure what you want from me
Her words: You know what I want I want some time away from you to miss you
My words: You know I can't leave so I am giving you what you want only with my body in the house
Her words: I won't tell the lawyer that you abandond the kids you just gave me space for a few days.
My words: Why don't you go to your moms for a few days while I am off. I will tell them you didn't abandon the kids
Her words: I can't do that
My words : Why can I leave then?
Her words: I guess you know what I am going to have to do
My words: I think that you have done that already
Her words: I haven't but I am going to have to unless you leave for a week. I am only asking for 1 week with out you in the house.
My Words: I am off until Friday. GO to your Moms until then and I will take care of the kids and the house
Her words: You need a hobby
My words: I have one. Wood working but you won't tell me what kind of cabinets that you want in the kitchen
Her words: I did last year but you didn't listen to me
My words: DO you have the pictures I will start today
Her words: Why are you like this?
My words: I don't know how you want me to be. I thought this is what you wanted
Her Words: Why are you so condensending?
My words: I am not I am just not getting angry with you and trying to remain calm.



Then I had to leave because I could feel the emotions. She has not talked to me since I came back.

Wicked Mood swings today. But she is noticing the actions of the Plan A 180. I don't think that she gets it.

It did enter my mind to give her a night with out me but she said that was not enough.

Thank for letting me vent a little
R

Mood swings again. She invited to take me and the kids out to dinner. She even chipped in half the money. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I spent the afternoon Geocaching with my BIL. He is really into it and it got me out of the house for a little while so I didn't have to deal with another mood swing. Now she is just being quiet and cold to me again. Kind of like the last week. Tomorrow I will e out of the house all day. Out with the guys at a football game.

Not sure what is around the next corner. Fog is thick and heavy here.

R

Why does she want you to leave for a week? What is all that about? The next time she asks you to leave, tell her you have no reason to leave and no intention of leaving, but she is free to go at any time. Since she is the one who wants to seperate, she should be the one to leave -without the kids, of course. Ask her why she wants you to leave.

If she says she "wants space" suggest she go in the bathroom and lock the door or clear out a space in the garage.

It sounds to me like she is plotting something and needs you out of the house to do it. It could either be a boyfriend she intends on bringing over or she plans on changing the locks on you, which wouldn't surprise me at all. That would put you in a position to have to get a court order to come back home.

She wants you to leave so she can miss you? WS babble zhitz!

Don't leave the house at all. You live there with your family. Stick to your plan and let you MIL know the WS may be sent over there because she is neglecting you and the children while trying to kick you out and that you will not allow someone to hurt your family as she is doing.

Expect the WS in her to get angry. When she does, give her room to throw her tantrum but do not fuel it. Take the children and leave. Report these incidents to the police in case she threatens to charge you with abandonment and neglect.

It bothers me that she appears to be threatening something and you are not being prepared.

L.

She has her space. SHe moved into the office. Air mattress, computer, other things (toys) and clothes. SO she has her SPACE.

I told her that I am not leaving and if she need that TIME she can go to her Moms and I will take care of the kids. Not sure what she is plotting but my Lawyer stated "Under No circumstances am I to move out of the house" SHe is a DR Harley suporter.

I am here to stay until I get the Court order to leave.

L.
I am prepared as much as I can be. I have a lawyer, my own checking account, separted all credit cards, living together but separate in the same house.

SO she just keeps throwing curve balls at me. When she starts in on it and then get angry with me I find other things to do with the kids. Even if it is just in the backyard.

Neglect? ****** she is the one that hasn't cleaned the house in over 2 months. Then she gets mad when I do it. Tells me I am throwing it in her face that she is not doing a good enough job. I just tell her that I am trying to help her out.

Not sure what the mood will be today.

Your attorney can protect you from this, right? Surely she can't legally oust you from your home?

You could have your attorney draft a letter clearly stating that it your intention to stay in the marital home, that you will dont abandon your family and that your not seeking a divorce... you can actually draft this up, give it to your lawyer, he puts a cover letter on it and send it to your wife. Puts her on notice and documents the fact that you are not leaving your home or your family.... I don't know how long you have to be gone for her to claim abuse and neglect.... If you can do more domestic things with witnesses, like friends over while you vaccum... then you can call them to testify that they saw you cleaning the house.

You need to realize if you haven't already your in physicological warfare, she is battleing you and her conscious... you may feel that you aren't backing her in a corner but she might be doing that to herself.

Child custody and get witnesses willing to testify as character witnesses for you.

Expect her to use the children as pawns. Do NOT threaten to keep the children from her. Document and get your paperwork ready. If you file for child custody, don't tell her right away. Work with you lawyer on the custody issue. This is critical. Most courts favor the mother unless you can prove she is unfit.

L.

No she can't oust me from my home until after the papers are filed. Then according to my lawyer I can get right back in because there has not been any abuse. But she can tell her lawyer that to get me out to begin with then mine just gets me back in. Not sure is that nasty but she is in a fog

Thank you all for the information. I hope that it doesn't get to the D stage. I hope it can work out in either plan A or plan B, with papers filed. If not then I have to go down the road and I have friends that can testify about my character.

So far the Plan A 180 is driving her up a wall. She can't figure out what I am up to. Tells me that I jumped from one extreme to the other.

As for threating to take the kids. I have told her that the kids are not up for grabs and if I need to I can take care of them even with my job. She took this as a threat that I was taking the kids from her. But now that I am not as emotional I have not even broached the subject anymore. Just smile and make reverse babble and small talk. Nothing more nothing less.

Thank you for all the strength and input. Keep it coming.

R

Once again reading her post using a keylogger She is now telling her friends that she will file for divorce but wants me to stay in the house for the Kids. She is planning on doing this In Jan. She also stated to them that she can not support herself and can't stand not to have the kids 100% of the time. If we lose the house and go our separate ways then I get them at least 50% of the time. SO once far away from the fence and now moving closer to it.

The fog is still there strong as ever.

I need to work more on being there for her. Meeting her needs. But it is tough still because she is not very accepting. We do have a Date on Wednesday, I am making all the plans. Hopefully she will stay away from talking about the D and R. I just want to talk about the kids and Christmas and the such.

Keeping strong but need to move from being so cold to her to luke warm. Trying to build that love bank.

MC tomorrow might be alone, because she stated that she couldn't make it. Now she wants to go. I told her she can if she wants but I thought she couldn't.

Thank you all
Keep me straight

I do live in Oceanside. Send me an email and I will tell you more.

There was no contact betweent the WW and OM for about two weeks. She tld him that she won some money (she didn't) and now he is back. During those two weeks she sent him emails and hand written letters. but the money brought him back out.

Yes she works part time outside the home

Thanks

We've talked offline and I thought I would post here to get others to throw their twocents in.

I believe, from the conversation you posted on here, that she is sooo confused she doesn't know what to do with herself.

Her words are exactly those said by mine. Have time apart to miss me, etc. Don't buy it. If you leave the house, she will use the opportunity to continue to pursue her outside contacts.

I think your situation is so similar to mine due to the fact that the other men she pursues are really not realistic pursuits in the long run. I've already told you that the odds of him being interested in her when he's a Hollywood type and has access to many young actresses are slim. She probably want the freedom to talk to whomever she wants to while you're away.

This is in violation of the 180, but the next time she starts saying how you're different and are inconsistent I would say this:

"Sweetie, since the beginning I told you I loved you and want to work on our marriage. That hasn't changed. I still love you and would like nothing more than for us to find our way back towards each other. You want space, however, and I'm willing to give you that, but I will not leave the children or our home. If you wish to do so, then that is your decision. I'm committed to our family and you're more than welcome to join me in that committment."

Hardest thing in all of this is to remove your emotions. In time you'll be able to, but for now you need to fake it till you make it.

The 180 is about letting the other person feel you're carrying on with your life, with or without them. The door is open for them to come back, but you're not going to be a doormatt.

I'm thinking about starting my own thread to get others to give me their twocents, but people don't remember who I used to be.

Good luck and stay strong.

Thank you,
I know and that is the important part. You have given me the strength and wisdom to get to where I am now.

She is back on the fence and scared to leave. Still wants her freedom but doesn't understand why I am not mad anymore. Flaunts the chatting in front of me and inturn I chat with my friends. I have moved away from her and doing my own thing. Still building in the love bank but she doesn't know it. Little things making dinner, complimenting her clothes, washing her car, etc.

I had a great hour with the MC today. Talk about Dr Harley and his principals. She stated that I am doing everything right. I should keep up with what I am doing and just provide her with the emotional needs that she is seeking. To take little steps with her and not be to aggressive. Time will tell when she is ready for me again.

Tomorrow night is a date night that she asked me out for. No kids just the two of us. I will be pleasant and strong. No anger, or Divorce or Relationship talk. Just good times.

Please start your own thread. You are a great coach and have helped me a lot.

Well last night we went on our first date, she asked me to go out to dinner and I agreed and made all the plans. It was a nice night and we had a great dinner with lots of conversation. She talked in a normal tone to me and we didn't talk D at all.
I did tell her that I am changing and she should allow me the opportunity to show her that I can provide her with the EN. She said that it was too late and she hasn't loved me for a long time. (anybody heard this one before). I also said that I am being a better Father, and she did say that I have been a better father lately.
The rest was a lot of chitchat about the kids. I did give her some Roses, after all it was like a first date .

But this morning read the keylogger and to my surprise, or not, she was telling them a bunch of lies about how we were in a public place and I argued with her and a bunch of other things. Said I was crying and begging. I didn't. More fog speak. I think that she is in too deep with these people online to come clean and tell them that she really wants to work on it. Either that or she is putting on a good face for me and the D papers will be here in Jan like she is telling the online people.

Wish I knew which face I had and which face the online people are dealing with.

Is there anything that I can ask the MC to do to help with this? She is doing the best in the situation. Helps to talk to her and she has good ideas. Not a Harley cousellor but.

So in a moody situation I am just doing the best Plan A that I can. Staying strong and showing her that I am the man that she married 12 years ago.

Having a hard time today but I will get through this.

if you have not already done so, I would say expose her to her "friends" for all the lies that she continues to tell.
I would like to ask you... what are you getting out of this relationship at this point? It is possible that your wife is telling the truth about no longer being in love with you.
Are you getting any direction from the Harley's here? I am beginning to wonder if your W has some type of mental illness. She is obviously an adept liar to EVERYONE she knows. She also has no problem involving other people into this mess. Perhaps it is up to you to educate these people as to how things really are... so that they can either butt out or offer her some real advice based on what is actually happening and not the "story" she is relaying. There just comes a point when the truth needs to rule the situation. If it results in you finding out she truly does want a divorce.. I say its better to know that right now than a month from now. And if it is because she is just a compulsive liar that is having a hard time coming clean... well, you can help her with that.
I would disable whatever method that she connecting to the internet. If you have broadband or dialup it doesn't matter. You need to start making it harder on her to continue this disrespect towards you.

Esposing her to her online friends would not do any good. I am the bad guy and they would not believe anything that I told them anyway. They are taking her side at all times. According to her I haven't been here for 8 years since the last child was born. I was here but mentally did not get her clues.


Currently I am getting a lot of stress from this relationship. I thinks that she believes that she no longer loves me because that is what she is being told. Some days she shows interest and other days she does not. So what am I getting. I get to spend every night with my kids.


I haven't talked to the Harley's do you think it would do any good for just me to call?


I think being 45 she is going through a midlife crisis pretending to be 34. She might also be going through the change of life (menapause). I have asked her to talk to her doctor about it but she hasn't to my knowledge.


Same answer as above. I am the bad guy in all this so the online friends are on her side and exposure would not produce any results


She tells the online people one thing D in Jan then she tells the MC that she is not filing and is workign it out.



Disabling it for her also disables it for me and my support. I need the support from this site to help me understand what she is going through and what I need to do to remain strong. So I have temporarily disabled it but only for hours at a time. Usually when I am at work.

Thanks for your input.

BIC, she has backed herself into a corner here by telling her friends lies in order to keep their friendship. This is going to have to stop somewhere and you are going to have to tell her that you know she is making up all these lies about you and your marriage.

I would get this all out on the table and ask what her plan is for your marriage and why she is making up lies. It is time for some truth and some confrontation.

You don't have to tell her how you know everything, but I would just list off the things she has told her friends and the dates she said it. Tell her you have a "source, that will remain secret" that is keeping you very informed.

Perhaps you could even do this in marriage counseling and tell the MC beforehand.

I like the MC idea. That way we have a mediator in the room. It kind of makes it so she does not have to defend herself but also gives me a witness as to what was said at a later time. If needed. We are both going to the MC on Monday and when we go into individual sessions I will bring it up.

The source has been telling me a lot lately.

Thank you again for the input. Getting really tired of the lies. To the point of not spying anymore. But I know I have to.
Fixing dinner for the kids while she is off getting her nails done. Hmm what is more important??

ummmmmmmmm, you asked the WRONG PERSON that question!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am hoping your MC will have a way to introduce your information without making your WW defensive but at the same time convincing her that you do know the truth. Your MC will have to agree not to give up your real source. We want your W to believe one of her "friends" is your resource. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That will ruin the group for her.

Think about this and we can talk some more later.

I may have to ask for a single alone session with her so we can talk this out some more. She would have to know all the lies that I am going to expose. If I get a chance I will ask her on Monday. But I think that this is a good way to go. Not letting on how I am getting the information but imply that it is someone that she knows online. A little birdy is telling me.

I think I still need to stop looking everyday at what she is talking about. I am really tired today from dealing with it. It is hurtful and stressful.

She is back to being cold tonight after having what I thought was a good night last night. The ups and downs of a WW spouse. I have to keep this Plan A going and love my kids to show them I care. It bothers them that this is going on. My DS told his mom that he did not want me to leave.

plan A is only going into its third week. Need to get out and do more for myself now.

Well it has been a little while since I updated.

I talked to my BIL last night and he told me that she is planning on filing for D in Jan. I guess I suspected this all along and was kind of hoping that she woudn't. Found out that my SIL gave her the money for the D, not one that I normally talk to. WW family is tired of trying to tell her that she is doing the wrong thing, and have given up talking to her as she has made up her mind and no matter what they say she is going to do this. WW has convienced herself that she will be better off in the end and so would the children.

We also went to the MC on Monday and it was same old stuff. She blames everything on me and takes no responsibility for it. WW told the MC that I treat her the same way that her Dad treated her Mom and she does not want that. So currently no matter what I do she thinks that she is going to be better off and can not see me in her future. I guess it is going to take the Plan B for her to come to her senses and see that she is not going to make it on her own.
I do have one question: She thinks that when we sell the house she will have enough money to buy another smaller house. How should I handle this? I know I am going to stall the D as long as possible. But what about the house. Do I want to say I want it and I will give her her half when it sells?

Tonight I am finally doing things for myself. First I am taking ballroom dancing lessons alone. Did not even tell her I was doing it. Last night I went a fraternity (Free Masons) meeting. SUnday I go out with the guys from work, and next weekend I have a Christmas party to go to alone and another day with the guys on Sun. SO I am off doing things on my own. I need to do more things with the kids but most of this is now getting me out of the house.

I am thinking of getting some Mental Health counselling on my own just for me. Just to talk things out with someone. Is this a good idea as I do not think that WW is involved or even cares about the MC we are attending. WW has already made up her mind.

Thanks

BIC, here is the thing. A WS in the throes of an affair says alot of things that never come to pass. As you can see with your wife, she talks alot of CRAP. Her talk of D in Jan cannot be taken seriously. The only thing you can take seriously are ACTIONS. Otherwise its crap. She might be "intending" to do XYZ, but it doesn't mean there will be any follow through.

I would suggest telling her everything you know and telling all your exposure targets about her divorce plans. Tell her you will be telling the kids WHY if this happens, and they will be told about her sleazy affair.

Don't keep this stuff to yourself anymore. Did you tell her you knew about all these other lies? This all has to come out on the table.

Additionally, you will want to have a frank discussion with her and tell her that you won't give her CRAP, except what a judge and a sheriff with a big [censored] gun orders you to give her. You will want the house [100%] and full custody with no alimony since she cannot support the kids. The kids shouldn't be expected to forfeit their home so she can get a job and move out. Perhaps she can get herself a nice room in a fleabag hote.

Since the marriage is being ended because of her affair, let her know that you will be countersuing for adultery and calling her boyfriend as a witness. Make sure she knows you have lots of evidence of her affair.

Don't make this easy for her and START discussing what you know. Bring this out into the open and burst her fantasy bubble, BIC!

Melody,
I don't believe most of what she says, But I do believe what my BIL tells me. But then again she told them this. I tried to get him and his wife (her sister) to put more pressure on her about the D. But he tells me that they have tried and she does not want to listen. She is not talking to me and her mom is not helping at all.

I have told her that I am going to take the kids 100% and she said I will not get them. I have told her that I know what she is doing with the OM. She just ignores all this. It seems that no matter what I tell her anymore she is just going to do what she wants. Nothing I say to her has any effect. When and if she does file D, I guess that is when she will find out that I am serious about what I have been telling her. Right now she just thinks that I am blowing smoke to scare her. So she has not made any movement towards the marriage. She still chats right in front of me. Flaunts everything that she does. Whines to the MC about how bad I am to her over the years.

I do not take it seriously but it still hurts to hear.

I have told every one that we know about her plans for divorce. Most are shocked and just say good luck. Most are not willing to get involved. Including her family. I do have one that is going to talk to her about it. But again I am not sure that the WW is willing to listen as she already has her mind set on what she wants to do. That is what bothers me about what you are telling me to do. I am not sure that if I confront her it will do anything. I believe that her ears do not even hear me anymore. I have confronted her about the OM and the pictures and the older lies. Yet she keeps it up, right there.

So again at this point what good would it do to threaten her with stuff if she is not listening anyway? I am willing to put together a list and confront her.

No, I have not told her about the other lies, back to the she has already checked out of the marriage. So what would be the point.

I do not believe that the Plan A is going to work on her at all. She is far from hitting the bottom and coming out of this. If the kids needs something I get it for them, if she wants to go out with her croonies she has me watch the kids. I will not let my kids suffer because of her. I have the means to take care of them and that is what is going on in my house. WW has checked out, no cleaning, no cooking, no caring, she cares as little as she can around the house.

Willing to do what it takes, but wondering why confront her with this now. I am thinking it will not have the needed effect. Or is it just my lack of [email]B@lls[/email] that is talking again? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BIC, she is SUPPOSED to be checked out of the marriage. That is an expectation, not a signal to GIVE UP. The point of putting all her lies out there are to give her a dose of reality and give her a chance to explain herself.

I am not asking you make threats to her, but to PROMISE her that you will not make it easy. You are talking about cooperating by giving her half the house proceeds. She should be under the impression that you are not selling anything! You are not going to cooperate.

And i also believe your BIL and SIL, but that does not mean she will get a divorce. It just means she is talking and talk is cheap.

If you confront her with all this big talk she does, maybe she see how ridiculous she really looks. But, BIC, there needs to be some radical honesty here and you need to be talking to her about all this.

If she is carrying on her affair in a chat right in front of you and the kids in your own home, you should politely tell her to take her affair talk somewhere else and disable the internet. That is a boundary that should not be crossed.

Melody,
I did it last night. Told her that I know about all the things that she is telling people on the internet. WW asked how I knew and I told her that I was getting emails. WW then asked from who. I told her that I would not tell her and all I would tell her is that I am getting emails. This is the truth I do get emails but not from her online friends. She made the assumtion that it was one of her friends and now she is angry that I would not tell her which friend. I told her that I would not tell her and that she would have to figure that out on her own.

She also admitted that she hadn't filed D yet. In her Fog talk she told me lots of hurtful things. But I did not get angry nor did I raise my voise or cry. WW did cry and got very angry. She said that she can't trust me with anything. I am sneaking around and spying on her. I babbled back to her that she is the one that can't be trusted and that is why I have to spy.

She was really angry and pressured me to tell her who or how I was getting the emails. Said that if I wanted to be open and honest with her that I would tell her who my source was. So now that this is out in the open I am sure that she will be further away from me. She told her that I keep pushing her toward D. I told her that I want to work on my marriage and the thing that will end my work on the M is a judge gavel when the D is final. I also told her that she would not be getting any money out of the house. If it is sold it will have to pay for lawyer bills.

So to make a long story short it angered her that I exposed her lies. It angered her that one of her "friends" is telling me things. It angered her that I can not be trusted. It angered her that I am still spying. It angered her that I talked to her Sister. It angered her that I will not tell her my source and it angered her that I know so much.

So with all this anger running around the house I went to my Ballroom dance lesson alone. I had a great time. I am still thinking of signing uo for lessons. But when I got home from my lesson she asked me about how many women I danced with. I said not the one that I want to dance with but I did dance.

So I think that it was the right thing to do and I have my balls with me. I just wish that it wasn't do darn hard. How and when will she come out of the fog?

We shall see what today holds.

You did an EXCELLENT job, BIC and I am very proud of you! I guess you have found your balls! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You did not back down in the face of her anger.

The only way to ever reconcile is to get this truth out on the table. You ruined her little fantasy and all her lies and that is why she is angry. She knows now that life will be very hard for her if she chooses to divorce.

BIC, I think the next steps are to continue to confront her lies lovingly and do your best to avoid lovebusters and meet her needs. Love her as much as you possibly can. Do some being filled by her internet friends with all these lies and stories. Is it because she gets attention from all this? If so, do your best to fill that need.

I am hoping, though, that she will consort with these friends less and less if she believes one of them is communicating with you. You did very good not giving away your source. Radical honesty does not mean that you give up your protective sources when your marriage is under fire.

p.s. yes, she is angry, but it is for a GOOD REASON. If she were perfectly happy in the act of trying to wreck your marriage and family, then you should really have something to worry about!

This perfect!

She is going to drive herself crazy trying to figure out who is telling you.

PLUS...she will begin to question if all of her 'friends' now know she's lying to them and are just humoring her and laughing at her behind her back.

LOL



Way


TO


GO!!!



~ Marsh

Hello,
Well I got home from work and it is cold as ever in the house. She is talking to me but only when spoken to. I guess I will have to let the anger subside before I do any EN things.

If she is not talking to me how am I to meet her EN? So with her being cold I am not sure the converstation is appropriate. I have tried the Recreationalcompanionship, but she doesn't want to do anything ie I did the dance thing by myself. I am taking care of the family with family commitment and being better to the kids. I am supplying the Financial support. Not thinking that the SF is anywhere close, as true with affection. I am looking better, lost a lot of weight, 45 pounds this year so I working on being an attractive spouse Do you know how to grow hair? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She doesn't think that I have been open and honest with her so she doesn't trust me. Domestic support I do what I can to have a good house. Admiration is about all I can do right now and compliment her.

Any other suggestions?

I am glad that I did what I did. So far tonight no computer from her.

Thanks

Give her some time to thaw out, BIC, sheeesh!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If she still seems cold tomorrow, give her a nice hug and say "I'm sorry you feel so bad, honey!" SMILE Be cheerful and don't allow her DEEP FREEZE to shake you up. She will soon tire of it!

Be pleasant, pleasant, pleasant!

But, I suspect she is giving you the DEEP FREEZE to manipulate you into telling your source! DON'T FALL FOR IT!! [why are guys SOO susceptible to this classic female ploy??] Giving yourself up will not endear her to you, it will only destroy your best protection.

Are you dressing nicely and wearing good cologne? Do your clothes match? Do you have a good haircut?


She does not have the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back. You do have the right to protect yourself and the children as long as she plots against you. And as long as she is untrustworthy, you will not give up your source of protection. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Melody,
Thank you. I know that she is in a deep freeze. Brrrrr! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I think I will wait until Saturday to give her a couple days to warm back up. Then I will give her the hug and tell her that. I would also like to buy her a bed to sleep in instead of that air mattress. What so you think about that. Just as a gesture of friendship and show her that I care for her. I know that she is not ready to jump in bed with me this may take months. But she does have back problems and the air matress is not helping.

I know she wants the source but sorry no can do. I am not falling for anything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Well not yet at least!

I have dressed nicely lately. Not when I go to work but on the days that I am not at work. I have been wearing colonge , I didn't use to. Clothes do match but I should iron them. Hair did you say hair? Oh not that was hair cut, which I had some hair to cut. I have some but keep it really short, which she doesnot like.

Thank you I hope this thins the fog a little. I know it is a marathon an I am still in the first mile but I am still running hard.

You are doing great!! But please don't buy her a new bed. Instead, encourage her to come back to your bed. Don't make it cozy for her in the guest room! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Find ways to endear her that don't interfere with your marriage.

Well, if oyu have a few hairs left, you are doing good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

can you take your clothes to the cleaners so he can wash and press them? It usually doesn't cost much and clothes look so good when they are professionally ironed. That way you won't have to figure out how to work an iron and I don't want you to hurt yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BRAVO!! I love hearing that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tomorrow she is going to have dinner with some of her "friends" in LA. She claims that they are all females. I am not worried about it. I know she is back to hiding from me as her myspace account is back to hidden. No biggy. I will just provide her with a little EN and see what is to happen next. It is like Christmas every day around here, something new to come home to like a little surprise present.

Staying strong for the kids and not buying a bed.

I think I would invite her into your bed, with a "no sex" agreement. Tell her "Honey, I'm worried about your back".

Well I asked for a hug and I got a hug from her tonight. Not a I love you kind of hug but it was touching. She put an arm around me, not both but one. SHe also mumble I love you when she left. I did say it first against the 180.
Had some good conversation, with her after woek, actually talked about each others day. No short answers. I am not sure what she is exactly thinking but she does not seem to be so depressed. Might be a good sign or it might mean that she filled out the D papers, because of what happened the other day I made up her mind for her. Not sure. But the signs are that she is at least paying attention to me. Not being on her computer when I am home is a good start.

So I hope things are improving or it is just another bump until she figures out how to hide more things.

Thanks again

Is she on the computer when you are gone? Do you think she has left her group of internet harpies?

Melody,
No, she is still talking to all the harpies. She installed some spyware checkers to see if she can find what I am doing. I guess I will see if she found anything. But she thinks that I am signing on to her accounts and reading things there. But she is still talking to them.
She even changed her name on Skype so I couldn't figure that out. Guess the hiding is going to go on.

Wish I could figure out a way to stop the fantasy this lady is having about being 34 instead of the 45 that she is. Chasing guys on Myspace. Found a honest Christian wrote her tonight, I had to write him back and tell him she is not an honest person.

Ok what is going on now. Seems how all along MB has informed me of what stage I am in I am wondering what is going on now.

First she started cleaning the house again. Hasn't done anything with the house since D-day. She is talking to me, not all the time but in a friendly sort of way. She is actually saying hello to me and asking me how my day went. Passing on information about the children. No hugging except when I hug her (I have hugged her twice since I confronted the lies) and then I only get the one arm hugs from her. No kissing or hugging from her to me. She is making dinner for the kids and myself, she is eating, (she didn't eat much since D-day).

Still no phone calls from her during the day(normal), she is still sleeping in her own room, she is not on the computer when I am around, but still is at night. She is not wearing the makeup and curling her hair like before. Still not wearing her wedding rings. She actually talked about taking this summer off work to be with the kids. Means someone is going to have to pay the bills.

So what do you think is going on now? I am working on showing her that I am ok on my own, Dance lessons, not being home all the time, doing things with out her and having fun with the kids. Just smiling and joking all the time. No more crying, weaping, clingy stuff from before. showing her some EN. admiration and conversation mostly

So what is next? Is this a sign that she has also given up and is going to file or she is coming out slowly and accepting me again?

Confused again by the actions

What is she saying to her silly friends?

Nothing, she has stopped talking about the M, D and OM to them since the lie confrontation. I am not getting the information that I use to get. She seems to have stopped complaining to them about the things that I am doing. She is just talking normal things, like the new movies that are coming out, Christmas type chats. But nothing that would hint that she is proceeding with anything or talking about the OM. It is kind of weird. She also found a Trojan (or so she says) on her Harddrive and removed it. I am not sure if that trojan was anything or she just formatted her hard drive. I have not checked yesterdays, or todays keylogger yet. I do not like to look everyday it drives me nuts. I will see later today when I get home if there is any new information or she found and removed the keylogger. Can't get to it from work.

Input?
Thanks

Well, it may be too soon to tell, but she may be coming around and warming up to you! Maybe your Plan A is working. I think it was a great thing that you confronted with her with her lies, though. It gave her an excuse to drop them and make her suspicious of her friends. She is now scared to tell them anything negative because she doesn't know which one betrayed her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think your best strategy now is to continue your Plan A and work on making yourself as attractive as possible. When the time is right, you could seduce her with the goal of getting her back into your bed. Work on that, ok?

Do you think she would take the emotional needs questionaire?

Could she put a keylogger on your computer? Is there anyway she can get on your computer and find this website and read your posts?

I am working on that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am wearing better clothes all the time now, limit the T-shirts and jeans (my favorites). Plus am growing my hair (what is left) out a little, She said she never liked the short buzz cuts. I am wearing colonge a lot, plus always ironing my shirts. I am presenting myself better and smiling a lot and laughing saying please and thank you. Kind of like we were dating again.


I had asked her this before and she said no because I would not like her answers. I will ask her again if she could fill it out for me. That way I will kow which needs are important to her. Should I do mine first and give it to her?

I have thought about this. I have looked on my computer but did not find a key logger. But they are hard to detect. I have also had it password protected from the BIOS for a while. She might have but I doubt it.

I have not told her about MB site, but Divorce busting. Similar topics and ways to handle spouse. I am also on there but not as often as the site is not as active. So she would have to stumble across this site. She does know that I am reading Dr Harley books. So a simple google search would bring up this site.

Why do you ask?

Tell her that you will like her answers if they are truthful, because you only want what is best for the marriage. Yes, if I were you, I would take one too and give it to her. It will be interesting to see what hers says!

I was concerned about the keylogger because if I were her, I would be spying like he11 to try and find out what you are doing. And if she has access to your computer all day.......

Well it appears that WW found the key logger on her computer and removed it. Oh well I guess I will have to figure a way to get it back.
I am scanning mine with a different program, but I do not think that I have one. Because by the time she would think about it I had already password protected mine in more then one way. Plus passwords are really not very obvious and I change them on a daily basis.

Thank you I will take the survey and give it to her and see if WW will take hers so I can share it.

I guess I should have checked before. Found a program called PC detective on my laptop. Hmmm wonder who put that there? It is removed now but I am wondering if I am going to have to change my name on here and move my story? What do you think?

I have some suggestions but i am afraid to post them here.

If you give me a IM or a call I'll talk to ya about it later.

You got my #

WW did not tell the MC about confronting her with the lies but she did mention other things that I should do:
1. Stop Touching her as she does not like it right now (makes her feel uncomfortable)
2. Stop Asking probing questions, I tend to ask her over and over where she is going and what she is doing to see if she changes her story.
3. Stop pushing her so hard and fast, and I need to slow down on things.
4. Stop trying to be right at everything, I should not always get my way.
5. I am to always ask before touching, and not get mad when she says no.
6. Stop telling her that I love her.


Then she got mad at me when I told the counsellor this: Next week is my B-day. WW told me that she was taking the kids to her Nephews HS band concert, so I could have some time to myself. I said great take the kid on my b-day. She replied oh I forgot that was your b-day, you can go if you want. I said sure I will go. Then she told the counsellor that they are going to play Happy B-day to me as a surprise, (which when we left was they might play). She got mad that I brought this up in the session. The MC told her that this is where we should bring things out, and we need to work on talking more in the house.
I told the MC that I am tired of dealing with her putting the guilt on me. She replied that she knows that we both need to work on this and that we are both at fault.

On the way home I again asked her to fill out the EN questionaire and she refused.

I guess just keep the plan A up and slow down a little with everything. Maybe even go back to the 180 for a little bit.

Oh well all is good I think. One small step at a time.

Yesterday was my birthday and WW actually got me a present and took me out to dinner. She paid <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WW has been nice to me lately, but did probe me a little bit on Friday and Saturday into argueing with her. I did a little on Friday but Saturday I just left. Tried to babble with her on Friday but she kept probing until she got the better of me and I started in. Did not yell but did tell her that I do not trust her. Because that is how it started with a question of "What are you going to do to me next?" I told her that I am not doing anything she is. Then this just started her off. WW then stated the "she could not TRUST me" this set me off with a I can't trust her either not with the money (she was hiding at her moms house), not with the credit cards (she sent the OM money), not with who/what she talks about on the internet, and not going to conventions (this is where she met the OM).

Since then she has been relatively nice to me. Talks to me in a nice tone, cooks dinner for me and the kids, and seems to be a little happy. Wish I could say the same. I enjoy being with the kids but as for WW... well I kind of wonder what she is going to do in Jan. Is the D-papers coming or not? I guess I will wait and see.

Having a better time with the kids

Is it normal for the WW to be nice before the Holidays? Mine is being really nice lately and I am confused as to why.

Maybe she is not getting the reaction from her online harpies that she was getting before. Maybe it is the NC with the OM has been working since she found out he was dating another. Maybe it is because I told her honestly everything, including the spyware.

I have bought her flowers, made her breakfast, got up first and made her a cup of coffee, bought her chocolates, and just overall been very nice to her also. Showed up at the kids school for their Christmas play. Not being a doormat but working on those love bank deposits.

Just wondering if this is normal for the WW in a plan A around the holidays to act?

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It sounds like you plan A is working. I tell you something that I have noticed in my situation. As you start winning the battle you get more W and less WW. At the beginning it was about 90% WW and 10% W. Now I'm up to about 60% W and 40% WW. Keep track of this. If you keep getting more and more, W you are on track. If something happens and you start getting more WW, you are either LBing or NC has probably been broken. Keep up the good work. It seems like it is having some effect.

So it appears that this is what is happening, she is starting to become more the w and less the ww? I will have to pay attention to her actions and track the status of the w and ww. Currently I would say that we are about 2% w and 98%WW. Hopefully it will improve.

But I am still cautious as she has talked to her harpies online about filing D in Jan. I guess it is a wait and see on that. But then again I can't believe anything that I hear and less the 50% of what I see.

Thank you and I hope things improve for you also.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wow I am wondering if there is some hormone thing going on with her. Moody again today. Didn't start anything with me, but also didn't show any signs of being happy like the last few days.

It could be that the kids woke us up this morning at 5am and she didn't sleep much the night before (stayed up until 2am on the internet and got up early). Or it could be that this is the time she is going to have to make the decision about the marriage. She told her online harpies that she was going to file after Christmas (for the kids)

Anyway she treated me ambivalent today. She would not sit on the same couch with me at her moms house. When I would sit next to her on the couch she would move. All her sisters were sitting with their husbands. She did sit next to me at dinner when her sisters moved so I could sit there. They all know what is going on, and some of them noticed this as they talked to me. But they are tired of her lying about everthing and told her before, so they won't talk to her about it.

I am not sure if this is normal behavior or if she is on one of those "moods' again. I guess I will wait and see what goes on in the morning.

I will be going to see a IC for my first appt. He comes well recommended, from others that I have talked to. Not sure what we are going to talk about but at least I can talk with him to get my head on straight.

Wish I could see some signs about our future. But it is getting harder and harder to do a plan A when she keeps withdrawing from my Love bank. I have deposited lots into her bank, or so I assume I have. Lately I have got her flowers, went out and got her coffee (this morning at starbucks), bought her a nice sweater, talking nice to her, lots of good conversations, picking up after the kids, showing her I do stuff on my own, making dinner. But each day it is getting harder and harder.

Thank you again for letting me vent this off.
I appreciate all your help.
[color:"red"] Happy Holidays [/color]

Why don't you ask her what the issue is? Tell her you have noticed her withdrawn, moody behavior and you can't help but wonder what is up? Also, bring up her statements to her SIL (?) that she was going to file for divorce after Xmas. Ask her what her plans on for the marriage. Ask her what she intends on doing to repair the damage from her affair and her internet addiction.

You know, your W has an internet addiction that is ruining your marriage, doesn't she?

Yes she does have a addiction. But I am not sure she knows, because when I bring it up all she does is say that I don't want her to have friends on the internet. That I am trying to keep her from her friends, and I am controlling her.

The IC said the same things that is being said here. That he will help me not be the doormat, make me strong, work on my self. Because a strong self will help me through this whether it works out or not. That a strong person can get through the pain, and he sees that I am in pain. He is going to work on my self image and the things that I think are my problems.

You forgot to mention you made california rolls <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Merry Christmas!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes I forgot making the California Rolls for her. Which she enjoyed. Tonight I am making French Dips. Yummy!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Last night I got a heating pad for her back, she is having cramps (that time of month)

She hasn't probed me for a fight for a few days, I guess I will just wait for January to see what is going to happen.

Have a great New Year!

Well got back from the MC tonight and seems that we are stagnant. Or that is what the MC said and wants us to work on making things better. Ask the WW how she felt and she said less tense and better. I told the MC that I would like to see some movement at least a little to getting back together. Maybe move her tooth brush back in to the Master bath. The MC pointed out that we are currently on a train track, I'm on one rail and the wife on the other. We are not at a point yet that the tracks will cross. Some time later the tracks may come together but now the WW is keeping her distance.

WW told the MC that in her IC is working on her Self esteem. She was a SAHM for so long (8 years) that she forgot who she was and needs to find that out.

I told the MC that my IC is working on making me stronger, working on my values, my communication, and my relationship with God. Told her that I need to some inner strength to deal with what is going on.

The MC told us that it appears and she sensed that there is less tension between us. This is all going to take some time.

I told WW in the MC that my door was always open if she ever wants to join me in bed, watch TV in bed with me, or just talk in bed. I knew that the physicalness was going to be up to WW, to initiate. But when?

The problem I see is how much time? How long do I need to wait on this path. It is her move, how long until she starts to show a closeness to me. Maybe never?

OK BIC - haven't been keeping up. How long have you been sleeping separately? Is she in NC with OM? Are you sure of NC?

How long?

Maybe six months?

Don't push recovery, just let it happen. It will go much faster if you just stay out of the way. Think how much better things are going for you right now. She has NC with OM, and she is going to MC with you. That's a heck of a lot better than the divorce papers you were expecting. Let her come back on her timetable. Yeah, it sucks, but it is your best shot at recovery. Just enforce marital boundaries like secrecy and contact with OM.

I asked my WW several times to come back to bed with me, and each time she said no way, and slept in the guest bed. Well, after about five days of not asking, I woke up in the middle of the night and she was in bed with me. She hasn't left since.

She'll come back on her timeframe. Just get out of the way.

Nice to see you back. Well she moved to the guest bedroom in Nov. This weekend WW moved everything out of our bathroom and into the guest room. She uses the kids bathroom now and has since Nov. She said she moved the stuff so I could clean the sink. Most of her clothes are still in the Master Bedroom closet, but she does keep some in the guest room.



I have not seen any traffic from the OM in over a month. That was until she discovered the keylogger and removed it. I am pretty postitive about NC as the last I heard was he was dating another woman from the online site that she met him on. Hmm go figure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am trying not to push and just let it happen. I am just an impatient person. Working on this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
WW told the MC last night that she is feeling less pressure around the house from me. WW also told the MC that she thinks that we do not need the MC any more. As we are both in IC. I told MC that I still want to come as WW does not open up and discuss things with me when we are at home, but she does bring things up in MC. So we are still going but just not as often. Not weekly but every other week.

Seeing my IC today. Not sure what he is going to talk about but he has a plan for the thing that I told him that I want to work on.

Does you WW say there is NC?

Yes, WW has told me that she has tried to write to him but he does not respond. She did this a couple times in Nov (I contacted him on Nov 11) and he did not contact her so WW said that she does not write the @$$hole anymore. Then WW found out that he is going out with another of her "online friends"
Fitting isn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

so, there is NC since the times she tried to write him since November. I would ask her if she has tried to contact him any more. Also, I would ask her if she has any plans of contacting him in the future.

WW has said that she is done with him, and that she found out what kind of person he really is. (dating another).

I have not asked if she has tried to contact him again since WW said the last. I do not know about the future.

I wouldn't push her too much right now. Now that you are the only man meeting her ENs, just keep it up and keep your needs out of the way. After a couple of months of love bank deposits from only you and very few withdrawal, you will see the wall slowly start to come down, as she desires even more needs to be met that cannot be met as long as the wall is up. Keep working on that wall brick by brick.

[quoteWW has said that she is done with him, and that she found out what kind of person he really is. (dating another).

[/quote]

So she'd dump somone for cheating on her because he's a bad person for cheating on her? Funny. I wonder what she thinks of herself for cheating on you?

According to the WW she has not cheated on me. She does not think that EA is cheating. They were just friends, and that she was sending pictures and money for a friend.

I have not even tried to win that argument with her. Even the MC gave up on that one.

Working on getting better, at least that is what I am doing. Not sure what she is up to yet.

BIC - OK

How are you doing on the 15 hours a week? Have you done the EN's questionaire? Are you trying to meet her most important EN's?

She is possibly still in withdrawal.

Not quite at 15 hours a week of QUALITY time. I would say we are at around 8. The kids go to bed at 830pm and she tends to go to bed at 9pm. This she claims is because she is tired but I believe that she chats with her harpies for a couple hours. I have told her that she can not do it in front of the kids and I.


WW refuses to do the EN questionaire. So I have done the best that I could to figure those out and work on what I think her most important EN are. I have asked at least three times and the last time she said that she did not want to fill it out and the MC told me to stop asking.


This is what others on MB think. I could go with that she is in withdrawl. But not sure if that is the only thing that is wrong.
She said something to one of her Online harpie a while back and said that she might just stay this way until I find someone else or the kids get old enough to move out. The kids are at least 10 years away from that. Long time to do this separate bedroom roommate living arrangement.

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

If she does want to argue that again, then ask her why she is pissed that OM is now with one of her other online "harpies" since they were just "friends."

BIC - Honestly, for now, as long as you are sure there is NC, try and meet her needs - ie continue in Plan A for now. I understand this is very difficult for you.

When my wife returned home, she did not want to share a bed with me either. To avoid a fight, that first night I slept in my office on a mattress on the floor. The next day I told her if she didn't want to sleep with me she could make her own arrangements but I was going to sleep in my bed. So she slept on the floor - lasted 1 night.

It's a bit cozy for her having her own ben in another room.

She is real comfortable in her little bedroom. Has a air mattress to sleep on, a computer (her laptop), a radio, her pleasure toys, and her alarm clock. She can talk on the internet and phone all night if she wants to. So as comfortable as she is I am not sure that she sees a benefit to coming back to our bed.

But I will give it time, and continue with plan A. I will also stop trying so hard. I need to back off a little bit, maybe some 180 again.

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hmmm....

Well, sounds like her room is a little TOO cozy to me. Time to make a trip in there sometime for a little work when she's not there.

Go over to the phone jack, unscrew it, open it up, and unhook all the wires inside from the posts. Tape them off, and close it back up. Make sure you draw a little picture of where they were before you remove them so you can put it back together sometime. So much for her own little phone for midnight conversations.

Similar plan for the internet in there... If it's a wired up internet connection, then disconnect wiring as needed to disable it. If she's accessing it on a wireless connection to a router, password the router and lock it down so that only specific IP addresses (of which her laptop will NOT be one of) can access the internet.

As far as her 'toys'...if they're battery operated, open them up and use a pair of wire cutters to reach in and snip a wire as needed to prevent their further operation.

Nothing like not having fun in your own little room! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


I don't have a quick solution for killing a wireless phone or 'aircard' connection for her laptop at the moment...short of shutting off service on those if you're paying for them.

Nothing like a little vindictive creativity to make for a fun weekend for yourself! Let us know how this goes for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and I forgot...about 10 or 15 small holes in her airmattress couldn't hurt either! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

But you might wait a day or two to do that one...just so she doesn't catch on right away that you're behind that. Maybe do one of each of these things over the next couple days...LOL.

Owl,
Now those suggestions are carrying it a little too far. No need to be vindictive. She is using her Cell phone and the internet is wireless. I have played the password protection and changing the password on her. It pissed her off but all she did was plug it in to the router. This gets her around the password for the wireless. So no need to go that direction.
Her first air mattress got a hole in it so she had to go buy another. Might be a little to noticeable to have another hole in it. She has complained about it being cold in the room. Must be because it is a guest room and the ventilation is shut down in the room.
As for her toys... once again I do not need to be vindictive towards her. I need to bring her back on her own and with love not busting. She will figure it out and then just withdraw some of the work I have been doing to get her back in bed with me.

I need to stay the course and work on little love bank deposits and show her that I am strong and will survive with or without her. No Jealousy, No Anger, No Clingyness.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Owl read my mind.

I took my kids to Seaworld (with the WW) on Saturday and to Church (without WW) on Sunday. First time back to church in over a year. So overall it was a good weekend for me and the kids. They got to spend a lot of quality time with good old dad.

On the other hand the WW did everyones laundry but mine. I did mine while she went to the beach with one of the harpies that is visiting. Oh well at least one kid stayed home with me today.

Tonight I also did what the IC told me to do. I asked the wife if she had any goals or plans for the marriage. Got the answer that we both expected: No. So then I told her that the affection is in her house and she holds the card. I will not, hug, kiss, touch, or say I love you to her. She has to make the move towards me. I also told her that she will not be humilitating me anymore as I will not be doing any couple things with her until she decides to treat me differently. My IC says that I get angry when she is humiliating me in public, and what angers me is the fact that she treats me bad in front of other people and they notice the way she treat me and then talk to me about it. Like the way she treated me infront of her family on Christmas and our friends on New Years eve. I also gave her an ultimatium: She needs to be 100% committed to the marriage by the time she goes to her Vegas Convention in June or she it will not be the same when she comes home. I told her before that I will change the locks on the house. but this time I just left it as it will not be the same as now. No threats, just standing up for myself. I told her that I can not live like this forever and it needs to start showing some improved commitment, On both our parts.

So too harsh? I did not yell and she had nothing to say back about it. The IC thinks that I am being to nice to her and need to stand up for my self some more. Set the rules!

We teach people how to treat us. I agree with your IC... I do not agree with giving her until June to start acting respectfully towards you. Negotiate the rules... but stand up for yourself.

June is the date that I will be moving forward with a DV and a plan B. She has to start being respectful before that. Showing that she is 100% committed to the marriage or I will proceed with changing my life for the better. It is her deadline, I will not live in separate rooms like roommates for any longer then June. After that I will make the change.
The IC just wants me to start standing up for myself and setting rules. If WW is not going to input to the rules, giving me the "I don't know" answers then I will set a goal for both of us. June is my goal date, and it happens to be when she goes to the Convention again, the same one last year that she met OM inperson. Not sure if he will be there this year but....

Setting goals and getting help. Being strong.

Stop referring to that date around her. Plan B works best when it is done by surprise. You can still have your plan B date, but don't go advertising it, and have it as a hard deadlines that looms in the distance.

OK...so my question is...what does she gain NOW by 'being nice'?

She doesn't want anything to do with you right now...she isn't interested in working on the marriage at all right now. So your 'threat' of 'things won't be the same here' in June probably isn't carrying much weight with her at the moment. There's no onus for her to change NOW at all.

She's set exactly the way she wants to be, from what I'm hearing. She's got her own little compartimentalized life, AWAY FROM YOU, all at your expense. It's not costing her ANYTHING...even common decency she'd show a room mate.

Bluntly, that's why I suggested the things I did. You need to start making her "seperate life" less comfortable, so that she starts feeling some kind of pain from her choices. So that she begins to miss sleeping in a bed, having YOUR companionship, etc...

Personally, I'd cut off the internet entirely in the house...and make it crystal clear to her that you will cancel ANY internet in the house. If she tries to get it installed in HER name, have it removed immediately. STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR MARRIAGE.

And make it clear to her WHY you're doing all of this. And tell her family and any non-online person who's opinion matter to her WHY. Heck...do it in front of her.

Is her cell phone in your name? Are you paying the bill? If so...CUT IT OFF. Stop funding her seperate life!

This is all part of the 'stick' of plan A. Do all of this openly in front of her, and tell her exactly why you're doing it. And at the same time, take all the OTHER plan A pieces and work them too. Start doing more with the kids, start doing more for yourself. Try to include her, make sure she knows that your goal is saving your marriage and your family...and until she comes on board with that goal, it's HER choice to be on the outside.

Keep showing her you love her in ways that don't support her affair environment. Do the ENQ, and strive to meet those needs...but don't meet her need for a seperate life.

What you're doing now doesn't have the 'ummph' behind it to make her change her ways right now...and if you let her stay in the pattern she's in for the next 5-6 months, I can't imagine any hope for your marriage.

Hopefully you'll get feedback from some of the others with good advice.

I already told him to cut off the internet.

Cut her off from her affair!

Sorry but I am not going to cut off the internet. If I do I also lose the internet. Which means I lose my support on MB. So if she does not have it neither do I. What good would that do? WW is in NC all she is doing is chatting with her harpies, and I am not sure that they are even into her problems anymore. But why care, WW is going to do what she wants and she still has it at work.

The bed.. Well I sleep at night now and do not want a cold none caring person laying next to me keeping me awake at night. I want her to come back on her own for me. Not because she has a hole in her bed and sleeps with me just to sleep. I do not want a roommate sleeping in my bed I want a wife, lover.

She may have an internet addiction. There are internet cards you can purchase through your cell phone carrier that are wireless strictly for your computer.

Jim,
WW does have an internet addiction. I know it and she knows it. WW no longer sits all night on the computer. WW does not get on the computer until after the kids go to bed. She use to be on and forget to feed them. Now it is after bed time and never when I am home in front of me. She waits until the kids go to bed and then she goes to bed for computer use. SO she is only getting maybe a couple hours a day, not like the 6-8 hours from before.

She is in withdrawl on the OM and the computer. She of course get plenty of time during the week when she is at work. Her boss is an idiot and lets his employees use the internet as much as they want if they get their work done.

I have looked into the cards but they are really expensive. Not a lot of time for the price you are paying.

Thanks for the help

What would be your reasoning for Plan B? She is no longer in contact with her OM... or at least to your knowledge she is not. Sounds to me like you need to take one of two roads here...counseling (with the Harley's or someone else), or divorce. Waiting until June is not a great idea in my opinion. It seems as though there is nothing positive going on in your home that you have to build on right now. If this is just a matter of withdrawl... I would say, stick it out for a short while longer and don't place too many demands on her.
If I am remembering your story correctly, you have had a very hard time standing up for yourself in the past. You were having people staying at your home that were openly disrespectful to your.
If I were in your shoes, I would think that your wife needs a good dose of plan FU. She does not seem to be responding to anything else... and quite honestly from everything you have said about her... I doubt highly that she will come around without a kick in the pants.


I just got caught up on more of your thread. I would alter what I said and Plan A for a while longer... although June is too long. Meet your wifes EN and see if she begins to come around. And keep these so called friends out of your home. They are a cancer to your M. Consider the things told to you regarding the internet. The costs may be high... but she has a BIG problem that you need to cut off at least while she is in the home.

So I don't get it...

I don't see ANYTHING in your plan to cause your wife to suffer the pain of continuing her bad behavior. There's no reason for her to change. And the only reasons people change their behavior is to either get what they want, or get away from some source of pain in their lives. Think about it.

Please, explain to me HOW your plan is going to work to convince your wife to end her internet addiction, go through real withdrawl, feel the pain of not having you as her safety net, and decide to come back to you and really work on you marriage?

Again, I don't get it. Help me to see how your plan works.

BIC, Owl is right. You don't have a marriage. You have an arrangement where your W does her thing and you do yours. She is only there, not to be your wife, but to just garner all the benefits of a married woman without actually being one. Nothing will change unless you give her some motivation.

You are right I am not really talking plan B in June. What I am talking about is cutting bait and filing for divorce myself. She said that she was going to file in Jan and as of yet she has not. So my IC said to set a date for things to be 100% committed from both sides. I talked with the IC and agreed to the convention in June. He thought that was a long time but worked with the convention.

We are both in IC and in MC. Though the MC thought that we should just do IC and not MC I told MC that I would like to continue MC and IC at least for now. As long as insurance pays for it. We are jus tnot going to MC weekly anymore.

No online friends in my home anymore, They were here this weekend and they are not staying at my house.

So if I cut off the internet I am back to starting over with the love bank. I have seen improvement in her actions the last few weeks while I am meeting EN. Why would I love bust, and have to rebuild that bank. AS long as WW is making improvements what good does it do to love bust? If I do cancel the internet, she uses it at work, uses the phone line with AOL. Plus now I have to build the bank again. If I do not cancel it and she continues to make improvements and I still meet her EN. Why the pain? WW is improving ever so slowly in plan A. So why step back again?

So what is my motivation to cause me this pain? and spend the extra money on wireless online connection? Not seeing a reason for the lovebusting as long as WW is improving?

I can't force someone to understand something that they don't want to let themselves see.

You know why I'm recommending the steps I am...however it's easier for you to rationalize staying on the path you're already on. Last thought for you, and I'll bother you no longer:

Is the goal of YOUR plan to rebuild your marriage? Or is it about avoiding further conflict with your wife? The two are NOT the same thing at all.

Ripping the bottle out of the hand out of an alcoholic is NOT a love bank withdrawal. You won't be able to work on your marriage as long as there is an active addiction.

I believe all of you. This is something that needs to be done, but I think that it should be done as I am going into plan B. Right now I am making strides and the marriage is improving a little. Why take back what I have earned. The trust and love bank deposits are on the upswing.

I am not saying that this is something that I do not need to do. But being in a plan A and working on love bank deposits, this just seems a big step back. When I proceed to plan B I will take big steps to cut her off from everything. The cell phone, the internet, the house and what ever else the law allows.
Please do not stop responding to me I am just confused between what I am hearing here and what the IC and MC are telling me. This is in conflict with them.

This is why I am confrontational on this

You can cut her off in plan A. You don't have to wait until plan B to do so. It will create more conflict, but remember, conflict is better than withdrawal. Maybe you should give SH a call to see what you next steps should be. I've only got about 2 months of experience at giving advice, he has 20 years.

I am listening right now to the show. Have always wanted to call but not sure what to say. Maybe I will give it a shot. If not maybe I will get a session with MB.

This is hard and I am sure you know. You have been doing this about as ling as I have.

Well I think the plan A 180 is coming to an end. I told the WW yesterday at the MC that I am done. I no longer want to live like roommates and ready for divorce unless she starts to commit to the marriage. She has made no progress in the 4 months of MC and I am tired of the bull around the house. Those of you that have read my thread think that I have been week. But I do not believe that she wants to work on the marriage and hasn't from the start of MC. So soon if things do not change I have to go file the papers and start ending this punishment for me.

Tired of the bull that I am going through

Thanks for the help but it might be time to end it

Betrayed-

The choice to end your marriage is entirely yours, of course.

I'd recommend that you take the efforts that myself and others have to get your wife to start facing the true realities of her behavior BEFORE you reach the plan D point. Right now, you've really not done a thorough plan A...you've not taken any actions to force her to face the consequences yet.

Have you considered taking the advice you've been given here before going to plan D?

I have done 99% of the advice that has been given here. I have not taken away the internet. Which is not something that I think will stop her. She can spend and does spend 8 hours a day online at work. So taking away the internet at home is not worthwhile for me to loose it also. I also have not taken away her car, her cell phone which she used to talk to people she meets on the internet. I currently do not think that she is doing anything wrong on the internet. As far as I can spy without my spyware installed.

The things that are wrong with her are hormonal or has to do with what happened in her childhood. I will not talk about these things and she is getting help for the childhood problems but not the hormones.

But I am tired of the roommate that is just using me for a financial crutch. I came out at the MC and told her that I needed her to commit the the marriage. I want her to put her wedding rings on, and stop acting single. As of yet she has not shown me any commitment. She did move some of her stuff back into the master bath. Her toothbrush and makeup. Not sure if this is her sign that she is moving back towards me or not but I want to see the wedding rings on her finger as a commitment to work on the marriage.

So what other advice have I not followed that I am missing here?

BIC, I think you may be onto something. It may be time for Plan B. Your energy in Plan A seems to waning and I can understand since there is no end in sight. I don't see how you can lose if you move to Plan B. What if you filed for a LSA for now and went ahead with a seperation? That way, if you do decide to divorce, you would be in a better position to make that change.

I would also suggest that you call Dr. Harley on his show tomorrow and tell him about your situation. He will give you FREE, VALUABLE advice after he assesses your situation.

Too bad she is not getting any help for her ADULT problems. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I am not sure that a LSA is any better in Cal then a divorce. I have not checked into them but I here you separate everything just like a divorce except she stays on the insurance policy. So we would have to separate the house and all the financial things anyway in a divorce. I am thinking that the paperwork for D will tell her that I am serious and not taking it anymore. Then see if she stays on the fence or works on the marriage. As now she is not working on it.



I will try and call the show. But I have a IC meeting at 9am PST. He is only on from 8am until 11am here. So I am kind of going to be gone in the middle. But Friday looks promising.

[color:"red"]Thanks Mel I love your input always[/color]

Well things are taking baby steps here. She bought me some Valentines candy hearts and put them in my backpack that I take to work. I found them when I got to work. She has also moved some things back into the master bathroom. She is not back in the same bed yet but I am still hopeful.
The biggest move that I have seen is the laptop is no longer hidden, she leaves it out and not password protected anymore. So she is not hiding things from me on the computer. No password and leaving it at home is a large step. She is also very friendly with me and we talk a little more then we use to.

I wish that we were making better faster progress but time will tell. My IC still would like me to make an end date and plan on the future without her if it comes down to that. WW is still not committing to anything in the future at the MC.
I still would like her to touch, hug or kiss me. But as yet she has not taken that step.

Just letting all know that I am still out here working on things ever so slowly.

Slow but steady is the secret. Right after Dday we (the BS) always wants to "fix it." We spend all of our energy to that end. What is effective about Plan A is when we just do the right things and stop trying to have R talks all of the time. When your W feels comfortable around you, she is letting you make those LB$ deposits!

Isn't it amazing how much can change in 10 days? Continue the good work. There is still a lot of hope and a lot of work left, too.

Mark

Here is what I would do. Journal daily/weekly about how your WWacts toward you. When times get rough or you get frustrated look back two months and see where you were. Sometimes you need to remind yourself of the progress. Slow and steady wins the race. I really think that you and your WW will reconcile, it will just take longer than you originally had envisioned or hoped for.

Thank you both,
The waiting game is the hardest game of the all. I can do the plan A and the 180. I can act nice all day and play with the kids. I can go out and do stuff for myself. I can do things that MB tells me and things my IC tells me.

The waiting game is something that I am having a hard time with. I know baby steps, but my wants and needs are also being neglected while I am waiting for the light.

Taking things one day at a time.
I already keep a journal by order of my lawyer. Plus it helps me know what I am feeling and what money I am spending on the children. Along with what she is doing.

Wow,
I guess after yesterdays MC meeting she has a new found interest in the marriage. I told WW that I wanted her to show me some commitment to the marriage. I needed her to show me that she wanted to continue working on the marriage.

This morning the wedding ring was on her finger. I am a little shocked and amazed. I guess the recovery has started. Slow but sure she is coming back into the marriage. Now I just wish that she would move back into the our bed.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Awesome! You had better get working on that Valentine's Day present now. No excuses!

Well the WW may be turning into a FWW. Believe it or not last night she actually slept in the masterbed without me asking her. I noticed that she moved the nightstand back in from her little room into the master. I went to bed as normal and she stayed up. Woke up later in the night to notice that she was sleeping in the same bad with me. I am so happy today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Should I say anything to her? She did not tell me she was coming back and I have not said anything to her about it yet. Still in the no touching rules set up by her. But I am hoping that soon that will change.

So for Valentines day I bought her flowers, a card, stuffed animal and took her and the kids out to dinner.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm so happy for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, IMO, you ought to tell her how happy you were to find her sleeping next to you.

~ Marsh

Oh, this is great news. I have been following your sitch since I started posting myself shortly after you.

This once again gives me hope.

God has been and will be faithful.

Easy there trigger! I know these are positive developments, but I want you to know that you are about where I was three months ago. Don't start bringing up the "F" just yet. The key is continuing to allow your recovery to continue at a snail's pace without pushing. I know how you want to take these recent developments and run with them, but the battle isn't over just yet. However, these are the crumbs you need to sustain you for the continued difficult months ahead. You are definitely on the right track, however. Keep up the good work!

I am crawling along at snails pace. Maybe even a 3 toed sloth <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But I am looking at all the positive things lately and I know that we are improving. No where near complete. Maybe at about 5% recovered. I have a long road ahead but Moving down the road finally. It is better then sitting at the crossroads waiting for her to make a decision. At least she is moving in a direction now. I am not being pushy with her. I have not asked her to come back to bed with me since December. I did tell her at the last MC meeting that I wanted her to start to show commitment to the marriage. I asked for her to put on her wedding ring. She did that. The rest she has done on her own. No pushing from me. I spend the night now coaching baseball and softball with my kids. The sport I love to coach.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am still happy!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Things are moving along slowly. WW is sometimes working on the marriage and sometimes seems to be distant. But all in all she seems to want to be married to me.

I get an earful now about spending money. Our accounts are separate so I pay my "share" into the household bills and then get to spend/save the rest of my take home money. Anyway I went out and bought a new motorcycle (old bike was 10 years old and needing major work<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />). I did ask her if she was ok with me spending money on a bike and she said "it is your money" Needless to say now I hear almost every day about something that she can't afford. I just ignore it as she got herself into this situation.

MC in my opinion is still worthless. Not providing anything that is useful to helping us get back together. My IC is driving the MC sessions through me. But now my IC doesn't think that WW is working on the marriage. WW will not give permission for her IC to talk to my IC. My IC thinks that she is still hiding something.

Anyway I think that things are much better this month then last. Still not intimate, but hugging, kissing, and going to church together.

Thank
BIC

I'm pretty much in your same boat right now. Does your WW have "daddy" issues like mine? Just keep plan Aing as long as things keep improving (no matter how slow), and hopefully you'll eventually get to where you need to be.

I suspect the same thing, BIC. Can you find out what it is?

Also...time to get an MC that IS working actively to help you rebuild your marriage.

Thought for you...we had a similar situation during our trouble times. Our MC had the right ideas, but was coming down so hard on WW that WW was really just shutting her out. Made her feel like all she did was show up and get beat up. While it made me feel vindicated, it wasn't doing anything to help us, since my wife didn't want to take any of her advice.

We'd both started IC at the same time (I insisted on all of the C...if she chose to come back and live in the same house, she was going to have to do this). My IC was awesome...very supportive of my working to rebuild the marriage, great ideas, etc...

So, we decided to drop him as my IC, and pick him up as our MC. BEST DECISION we could have made!!! He made it clear to my wife that while he'd BEEN my IC, he was there for BOTH of us to help us with our marriage. He didn't let her get away with anything, but had a great way of making her feel like she could talk openly and honestly at the same time.

Would this be an option for you perhaps?

I have probed the WW about why her and her IC will not talk to my IC. But I get the cover up answers of I don't know. So I am still working on that aspect of gettting the three counsellors together.

As for her going to my IC... Well last time I asked WW stated that she prefers a female. My IC is up to being the MC and will set her straight as he has done me. He doesn't take the "I don't know" answer.

Thanks for the help I will continue to search and find out the answers.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />