Been lurking for awhile, and this is my first post.
My wife has been involved in an EA for the past month. I did establish NC once, but that lasted about a week. During the week, I saw some hope but of course that was dashed when they started seeing each other again.
This past weekend it went to a PA.

I have been Plan Aing for the past four weeks, but it looks like I will be entering Plan B this weekend.

Need some advice or just an ear. Thanks.

Welcome VR,

Sorry that you are here because of your sitch. You will get lots of help here just keep posting and give some more info so that we may be able to give you more support.

Thanks, JustKeepGoing.

This started about a month and a half ago. My W met the OM while at work and it started as an EA. In the begining of the year, I was told about it when she asked for a D.
Since then, it has been fog speak, etc...

There was one week after NC was established that went well, but then contact started again.
The PA started this past weekend, and now is rather indifferent to me.

Four weeks isn't that long.

Is there any way you can Plan A longer?

~ Marsh

I know four weeks is not that long, but given the circumstances, no I can not.

Are they still working together?

VR,

What are the circumstances?

Plan B is useless without a good Plan A. So, please let us know what the circumstances are that prohibit you from doing a Plan A.

We need more info here in order to help!

There are valid reasons... VR... this is going to get confusing the way it is being discussed.

THREADJACK!

JustKeepGoin!

Welcome back. You went away for awhile, Some sort of crisis?

What's Up?

THREADJACK OVER!

LG,

good to know i've been missed.

been lurking mostly, and trying to help a friend.

email me at the address on my profile page.

Yes, I know.

Just found out she filed last week.

Still need the background, VR!

Filed is not the end of the world... your safety and sanity are of utmost importance right now. You are most likely not assured of wither in your current situation. Be careful and act wisely. You know what to do as far as another exposure and going dark. The situation you are in is too unstable to continue this any longer.

MM, I sent you an email.

If you want to save your M then I strongly recommend you continue w/ Plan A.

Read Ark's posts about how to work a Plan A in your sitch.

Here's a good one written by her...


FIRST thing is that I strongly strongly believe that before you even begin plan A...that you make a time limit for it...with plans to go to Plan B...
that for plan b to be effective you must have a good plan a...and for plan a to be effective and have the stamina to hang in there and give so unconditionally you must have a time frame in mind for plan b.....

Plan A is ALL about the assumption that the WS is still in the affair or in contact...
this is your map to navigating those treacherous waters...

it also is your big moment to diffuse all the excuses WS are prone to use to justify their behavior and choices....

and more you can diffuse their blame...

the bs is "always depressed"
the bs "always wants to talk about relationships"
the bs "is controlling"
the bs "yells all the time"
etc....

the more you remove those things...and the more you remove yourself from any powerstruggles of insanse things...

he said she said..
etc...
the more your disengage from arguements..again the more they have look at their own actions and choices....

here's what I told familymatters..One of the biggest mistakes that people make in plan A is that they begin to meet their spouses needs....and still hold on to great expectations of reward and reinforcement from their spouse....

plan a is ALL about learning to give and do for a bit with NO expectation of ANYTHING in return...

the giving of self and gifts with no strings attached....

I have quoted the silly add campaign for some perfume in the 70's here before...but I think it fits....

It went like this ...

"if you want to get someones attention...
whisper."..

plan a is like a whisper of behaviors and actions...
plan a should not be huge demonstrative expressions of love and romance...

WS are incapable of accepting those things...
part of that is that their actions at the time of continuing an affair are NOT loving and lovable...
and they KNOW it..
sometimes they know it better than their BS...who still want to use words like love to them...

so they get resentful
or shut down
or depressed..
or it solidifies their belief that they are so "bad" or so far gone...it feeds into their excuse and defense of unworthiness...

plan a is about filling the home with love and light in other ways...

it about an upbeat environment without the deep doom cloud hanging overhead..

it is about a home filled with children's activities and joy when applicable and it is about inviting and drawing the wS into those times and activities....

and even when they refuse to come in to the joy...the joy goes on without them...

BS that do a good plan a...say they feel like their WS didn't notice..or only was receptive now and then...and then their involvement and particpation increased...

WS that were handed a good plan a...say they watched and noticed EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING....even when the bS thought they didn't notice a thing....

WS are in great turmoil...and human nature is in conflict to take ALWAYS the path of the least resistance.....

the path of least resistance...is withdrawal and wallowing in self loathing and pity..

the path of least resistance is the OP..for they can not judge and force the WS to see their own actions...because they are as guilty as the other....

so plan A'rs.....need to stop ALL relationship talk..
all talk of love...

you do things that are subtle...
like put a CD in that the WS likes...and just enjoy if yourself...and if they enjoy it also...so be it..
even better yet when it is a blast from the past CD...one that speaks of a history...without blatant insistance that the wS remember this or that....

just history...

the person in plan A...needs to be upbeat and charming...they need to see that the BS is capable of fun and joy...because if all they ever see is a BS lost in the pain..then it will solidify their belief that the pain the WS has caused will never go away...and no one can stand to see the pain they have inflicted day after day...(unless psychotic or sadistic)

the person in plan a needs to engage family and friends in fun activites always always always inviting the wS to join in...
they need to see that things can and could be normal again....

plan a can be leaving a love note...but more impressive a joke...
buy an old farside book and make copies of the really really funny ones....
or the old calvin and hobbs.......
and leave those posted about...
WS seek false joy and laughter....
bring them back to real laughter.....

plan a'rs need to learn to babble back to the insanity that Ws say..and give the babble no leverage or "to die for importance"....

plan a'rs need a time limit of doing plan a with a concrete plan when to go to plan b..
the better the plan b..the better the reality of the consequances of plan b...

make plans to things the wS likes to do..
baseball games..
movies
etc..
and when they dont' want to go..
still go and do them..
be up up up up beat...

draw them to you and your home like a moth to a flame...

work on yourself
find an outside interest that gives you some relief ..

expect nothing nothing nothing from the Ws within a limited time period and free yourself in to the ability to give and do for your spouse better than you ever had....

WS are not used to getting thing with no strings attached....
it will confuse and baffle them...but when they try to use the old "your pressuring me excuse"..it will fall on their empty ears..cause they know that has not been the case..

take them a coffee expresso piled high with whip cream...at work or bring it home to them...and leave it for them..
don't badger them to thank you
don't badger them to tell you how much they liked it..
lay it at their feet and walk away whistling...
find the joy in the act of giving and doing and not in the receptiveness....

hard hard hard hard it is......
but set the time frame and go for it....
anyone can do anything for six weeks..
(except ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

and pray for Gods Grace to enter your heart and home...
pray for serenity...
make you house the home where you and the kids and WS would want to be....


become strong...
become confident
become engaging and charming...

realize that YOU the BS are not lovable or desirable..based on your spouses giving or taking of love...
that you stand alone in this world..
lovabe and desirable...inspite of your spouses...


that's why plan A is all about each and every encounter and glimpse in to you and your home life being as engaging and attractive.....


plan a is all about doing what you can to end an affair....
plan a is built on the presumption that they are in contact...
that's why your contact needs to be better and with more value and depth....

this does not mean that you don't set boundaries on what you will tolerate in your life..

you will not "babysit" the kids so she can go with the OP...

you don't condone any contact..
but you don't powerstruggle it either...


hope this helps some..
ark”

If you want to recover your M then knowing she filed ought to make you want to Plan A for a bit longer...

~ Marsh

The current sitch is this.

The OM stopped contact after I contacted a family member of his. Some oteher stuff happened and now he is seeing my W just to get back at me.

The consensus is, if I leave he will view that as a win for him, and then more than likely cut loose the WS. He is also not a relationship type of guy.

Plus. state of mind is not doing me any good since it went to a PA.

VR,

I understand your state of mind. been there, done that!! But, we will need all the info you can write down here in order to understand the sitch and help you.

Stuff like how old you guys are, how long married, kids?, how they met?, is he married?, have you exposed?

Let's start there! As I said, we know this is VERY difficult!!! I have been there, as have many. My wife is home now and the OM is long gone. We can help give you the tools to do this...but you car going to have to be willing to do the work.

If not, your marriage is almost certainly over!

VR,

It is too early to go to plan B. You can still plan A if your WW separates from you. You should probably give it a good 3 months before you plan B. If you have any questions, you should call SH or Dr. Harley's radio show. You can still save your M, but you will have to outlast this A.

Everyone who is trying to help, VR can not go into too much detail. If you have any questions, please email me so I can get you the full story.

VR,

I have been giving your sitch some more thought. The consensus here is it way early for plan B. So with out going into too many deatails here I would think that is something to consider. How to do it in your sitch and maintain your sanity is the question.

To all VR is not at liberty to give many details yet but your support is needed. My email is also available on my profile page for more info.

Folks:

I think that, in a situation like VR's, with no kids and a "walkaway WW", one very viable option would be for him to cut his losses and accept the DV and write the M off. But since he doesn't want a DV and his W has filed on him, plan B might just be a better way for his WW to see what life will be like without him, sooner rather than later.

In this state, as in many others, DV can take as little as 6 months to be final. If VR continues plan A remotely after his W bolts, he might still be trying to infrequently meet her needs when the DV is final.

A lot depends on how well he can hold up with the A going on under his nose.

-Qfwfq

I want to stay married, but am preparing to walk away.
The motivation for entering Plan B so soon is to get the OM out of the picture. He is only doing this to make me mad.
He has no interest in my wife other than that and as someone to have sex with.

If you want to stay married, then DON'T walk away....yet.

He's not going to quit using her if you walk away.It will only make it easier for him to continue to have sex w/ your WW.

If you are able to emotionally bear it, I suggest that you continue working a Plan A.

Don't give your WW to the OM on a silver platter.

~ Marsh

Um...

The OM already HAS his WW on a silver platter. He's only feet away at the moment. Mrs VR simply leaves the house, telling VR she may not be home, and goes and spends the night with the OM.

Major disrespect. At the moment, there is no M to save. Only the possibility of reconciliation at some later time.

This OM doesn't want responsibility for Mrs VR full-time. He only wants her when he wants her. With VR elsewhere, she'll be at his doorstep all the time, and he'll grow tired of her sooner that way.

-Qfwfq

I would suggest that he not let WW stay the night with OM. Watch her and if she goes tries to go to OM, then stop her. You need to move. See if the apartment will let you out of the lease.

It is time for him to get out of there. His safety is a concern. She is not going to stop doing wehat she is doing so long as they are living there. There is every reason to move right now. Given the details about this Om it is likely that his pursuit will stop when VR is out of the picture. Also, if his wife has a problem meeting the rent she will have to move away from the OM. A BS does NOT have to sit by like a doormat and watch as his wife walks upstairs to get laid. Sorry... but that is not acceptable and VR needs to remove himself from this situation immediately if not sooner.
VR, stay your course... there are more important things than your M at stake here.... your sanity, your safety and your dignity are all important too. You have put this off too long already. Until there is a situation where your wife does not have him right there as an option there will be no recovery. She has put you in a bad position with no choice a clear cut winner. But the things that make it easy for me are the things that will help you by leaving. And remember when you do what you are going to do this weekend... your safety becomes an issue. Remember you were already threatened once... and think not only whose lips that threat came from... but where it most likely originated.
People... this is the type of situation that can turn dangerous in a heart beat. It is time for him to get out of that burning building.

And how do you suggest he do that. Physically. That will escalate this to a whole new level. She has already shown a complete disdain for his feelings... so how exactly would you propose he stop her. I am large man... and I couldn't stop my ex from doing what she did. Well, i could have... but I would have been locked up that very night. He just is out of options here. He either sits back and WATCHES this happening or he removes himself to a healthier place. Unless you can come up with a way for him to stop her, there is no other option.

So far my plan is to leave soon and go into Plan B. At the same time, do a 2nd round of exposure to a family member of the OM. He stopped it once, maybe he can do it again.

I agree with medc here.

While I agree that exposure is the right thing to do, regarding the OM's family, I hope you realize that, at best, it'll put a damper on the A for a very short time. This OM doesn't care how his family perceives him.

-Qfwfq

If anything, it might motivate him further. He does care what his family thinks of him, especially the one I talked with.

Spite can indeed be a strong motivator, but it's a character-destroyer, not a builder.

No way to live one's life.

-Qfwfq

Let's say you let WW go freely to OM (okay you can't stop her anyway). OM wins. You lose. OM gets bored. OM dumps WW. What do you suspect WW will do after that - come running back to you begging for forgiveness? How does this play out in your mind?

She was with him earlier today, and she is with him now. You are right, I can't stop it. What am I supposed to do at this point? Be a doormat? Right now, she like in 1/2 Plan B. Hardley talks to me, or even acknowledges me, but then does weird stuff like give me a warm smile when she is heading out of the door.
I complimented her today, and she looked stressed when I did.
When the A ends, if she wants to come back I will make a decision then.

When I say keep her from staying w/ OM, I mean, kick her out of the apartment so OM isn't so close.

Also, get with a lawyer and file an AOA lawsuit against OM. Hit him where it hurts, in the wallet.

I'm certainly not recommending you be a doormat. There seems to be a bit of a discussion as to whether you should remain in Plan A a bit longer or go to Plan B immediately. You have said you have compelling reasons to go straight to Plan B. I think I am trying to summarize the thought process as I am somewhat familiar with your sitch. Conventional wisdom says to stay in Plan A for a while. In your case, I might tend to agree with your assessment based on what you think OM will do. I agree it is highly likely that OM will go on to greener pastures once he has his trophy. My doubt is to where WW will go when he does. A good Plan A will increase the probability that she comes back to you. A bad Plan A or no Plan A and she will graze elsewhere too. Tough call.

Call Dr. H, call SH, and get a PLAN that coincides with what you want to accomplish and what you can tolerate.

I can't even do a good plan A anymore. A month ago, when NC was going on, it was actually easy. I saw her anger and depression. Ever since she obtained some info, the whole thing went south fast. Now, I am treated as if I no longer exist.

I don't know what to do anymore.

Plus do not forget this fact everyone...PLEASE.... the OM in this case is not entirely stable. Living there could be harmful to your health. Please take it from an ex cop who went to many homes for very sad reasons... this can have a bad outcome with OM living right upstairs. DO NOT take this issue lightly.

VR... take care of you first!

Many WSs who are aware of MB try at some level to use plan A/B against the BS. The results would be laughable, if the M wasm't at stake.

Doesn't work.

-Qfwfq

This won't stick for long, if she wants to come home, since she's on the lease.


VR and I live in the same state. He can't sue for AOA here.

-Qfwfq

VR,

You dont get the concept of Plan A and Plan B. Plan A isnt for when your wife is in NC. Plan A is for when she is in the affair! Recovery is for when she is in NC.


This is GREAT! This is the byproduct of Plan A.

Let me give you a quote from Dr. Harley about Plan B:

And another:

Too many people come on here and think that Plan B is for the WS...to force them to wake up. While that CAN be a consequence of going to Plan B, it is not always the case. Plan B is for the BS...in order to allow them to hold out longer until the WS might pull their head out. Or until the BS is truly ready to divorce and move on.

Please do not use Plan B in a way that it wasnt intended. You may not get the results that you expect!

I'm curious, what "info" did she obtain that resulted in everything going bad so fast?

MIM,

If you want to know, please email me.

Sue him for "Intentional Inflection Of Emotional Distress" instead......

VR,

Here is a line from Morts post:

"Plan B is for your comfort and security"

MEDC has seen this sitch before and is saying get out. Plan B for your comfort and security. I don't want to see you get hurt if that's the case.

VR - call Steve H if you can, if not, most people just know when it's time to plan B or even D.


MIM - I have a question for you about my sitch - please email me.

Best wishes

Got home today, and she said she was heading out and not going to be back tonight. Knew that was coming.
Since I have been served, I asked what would be ok to take when I moved out. I even asked, out of the stuff I can take, would you like me to leave anything? At this, she got flustered and angry and said she didn't want to talk about this right now. What is that about?

Well..I found out that the OM feels that I had threatened to sue him (I am assuming based on discussion of that topic). Then shortly after that is when the A went to a PA.
I know it was discussed in detail over here, but I didn't and wouldn't sue him. If I were going to sue, he would have been served already. Amazing.
Wow...now I understand his motivation.

Get yourself out of there. It is time for plan B/D. Take everything you want. Don't let her hurt you anymore. You know if you need to chat just send me an email. I'll say a prayer for you. I wish I could do more for you. I feel like we let you down.

You do?

then maybe you can explain it to me. ...well, you don't really need to.

This a-hole is motivated by spite. Well, that and selfish lust for other men's wives.

As for what your W's anger was about, who knows? Who cares? until she pulls her head out of her nether regions, it doesn't really matter why she gets miffed at you, does it?

You know who you are, what you stand for. That's all that's important right now.

-Qfwfq

I know, I'm not staying. I am going to focus on me. I just found it interesting.

I try to avoid replying to or sending e-mail for privacy reasons. Drop me a line at ManInMotion2005@hotmail.com, and I'll pop back a cryptic response here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, or you can IM me using the same address above, when I'm online.

MIM, it's taken care of. Thanks anyway.