In roughly ten days, I will begin Plan B. For those of you new to my plight, here is a link to my Plan A thread:
Plan A

I have started planning the actions I will take when I begin Plan B on the 5th. Here is what I have so far:

1. On the fifth before she leaves for the theater to do her show, I will ask her one more time to have NC with the OM.
2. If she refuses, which I can almost guarantee she will, I will leave my Plan B letter on her pillow in the hotel room.
3. I will board a plane for home, and when I shut off my phone for the flight it will remain off from then on. I have already spoken with my father in law about being our go between.
4. After returning, I will begin looking for a new apartment in another city?

I have some questions now, which I will go ahead and list as well. Why not?

1. Should I before I leave open a new bank account and transfer my paycheck's direct deposit or when I get back?
2. Should I say anything to her about the separation or should it just be a total shock when she reads the letter?
3. Should I wait to find a new apartment in hopes that she will respond to Plan B quickly?
4. Should I separate all the expenses out? Like have her cell phone paid out of the old account, but put all the other things for the house on my account.
5. Should I put a time limit on Plan B before filing for divorce or should it just be when there in no love left?

I want to thank you all for your continued support and encouragement. I wouldn't have been able to do all this without the wisdom from the members of this board.

Do it now, because it usually takes 10 days to 2 weeks to go through anyway.


It should be a total surprise. There should be a shock effect when you go dark. If you warn her, that gives her an opportunity to try and manipulate the situation. With no warning, you are simply not available to be manipulated or pushed around. The point of seperation, after all, is to cut contact, and that is what should happen.


Is there a reason that you would be moving rather than expecting her to move elsewhere? Could you not move her possessions to a storage unit or to her fathers?


Yes, Plan B should emulate a legal seperation and you also would want to do this for your protection.


Plan B is designed to PROTECT the remaining love you have for your spouse. That being said, it is up to every person to determine how long they will stay in Plan B. Dr. Harley recommends: "But I don't encourage a spouse to wait more than 2 years in Plan B. After that amount of time, reconciliation is very rare."

Melody,

Regarding #3, I spoke with a lawyer this week, and she advised me that I can't legally keep her out of the apartment since it is considered her residence as well. She did say that I could terminate the lease and move. I also have friends in the other city who are very supportive.

She won't be back in the apartment for some time, since she is on the road. I plan on asking her through her father what she wants me to do with all her stuff. Most likely I will just put it in a storage facility here.

imterrified, so the plan is to move her out too when you move?

Yes. She will be on the road for at least another 4 months, so I plan on putting her stuff in storage.

Honestly, I don't see an issue with any of this. She'll be FURIOUS that she won't have a place to stay when she gets back, but she'll have plenty of time to try to plan things out to deal with it.

Post a copy of your plan B letter here, we'll help you edit it and keep it to the point.

I have only started the letter in my head, but I plan on starting it tonight. I will post a rough draft either tonight or tomorrow morning.

I like your plan and think it is very well thought out. If you post your letter, we can give you feedback.

Here is the first go at my Plan B letter. Sorry it took so long, but like opening the new bank account, it hurt to do. I put lines between the paragraphs to make it easier to read on the forum.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dearest WS,

It is with a heavy heart and deep regret that I must write you this letter, but with the approaching arrival of OM to see you in ZZZ, I must take this next step.

I apologize for my part in creating the environment where there was so little passion in our marriage that you had to find it in another. Unfortunately, I let my career, and the worries of life take me away from being there for you when you needed me most. I didn't do the things a husband should do to maintain and foster the passion in our relationship, and I apologize for not being the romantic and the protector that you desired.

There is a willingness in my heart to avoid these mistakes of the past and build a new life for us where all your needs are met. But the truth is there is no possibility of recovery until you agree to end your relationship with OM forever.

With this truth in mind I must tell you that I do not wish to see or talk to you until you end the relationship with him. You must know the intense pain and suffering that it has caused me, and I simply cannot stay with you or support you while he is in your life. Please respect my decision and do not contact me in any way. If you need to communicate something to me, your father has already agreed to handle relaying messages.

Furthermore, I will not be able to support you financially. I have setup a new checking account and will handle all bills pertaining to the apartment and amenities since you are not living here. You will need to be responsible for your cell phone bill and any expenses you incur on the road. I will be removing my cell phone from the plan, so you will not be paying for my usage. You may continue to use the same checking account and debit card, and you also have access to your savings account. I have attached another page to this letter with information concerning your savings account if you need it. You will also still have access to my health care plan provided through work if you need it.

In a month or so, I will most likely be moving to XXX. I need to be around people who love me and will support me, and I don't have that in YYY. I hate to do this, because I know how much you love our apartment and city. But I don't really see how I can stay here alone. We can make arrangements on what to do with your belongings when it gets closer to the time of my move.

I want you to know that our relationship can be fixed, and we can have all the passion and romance that you desire. But it requires that you are willing to work on it with me. We have to build a new relationship based on honesty and communication. We can build a life together where we are both very happy, and then there will be no need or desire for us to ever separate again.

I have loved you for the last 9 years and continue to love you, but I cannot be with you while you are still with OM. If and when you agree to have no contact with him, please call your father, and we can make arrangements to get together and talk about how to recover our marriage.

With all my love and devotion,
BS

That's a nice Plan B letter. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Everything is very good, but I would change a couple of things, starting with changing all "relationshps" to "affair." It is not a relationship, it is an adulterous affair.


Change that to "when you end your affair with XXX." Her agreement is not enough. Talk is cheap with a WS and they often "agree" to anything to get what they want.

Secondly, I would ask your FIL to only pass on PERTINENT information, ie: financial issues, etc. He has to be completely neutral and cannot be passing on her ranting, ravings, etc. He is to act as a SPAM FILTER and filter anything outside of PERTINENT information. Nor should he interfere with your Plan B. Sometimes parents cause great harm by trying to talk a BS out of staying in Plan B, "how can you work this out if you aren't talking???" because they don't know anything about Plan B.

And lastly, what will likely happen when she receives this letters is she will go beserk because she won't like losing control of you. She will say or do anything to get you back in line. The worst thing you can do is be tricked into resuming contact based on empty promises. And she may say many things to get you to resume contact. RESIST the temptation because if you allow contact, you will lose your credibility and lose your leverage.

IT, this really is a good letter, and I commend you on a well thought out, intelligent plan.

p.s. after you go into Plan B and if she makes you an offer for reconciliation, please discuss it with us. We can help you seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Melody,

I made the changes you suggested. All "relationship"s are now "affair"s, and I changed the sentence you noted to, "If and when you end your affair with him..."

Good man <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, I am an official Plan B'er, although nothing actually went according to plan. I'll explain below.

On Wednesday morning I flew to the city in which my WS's show is currently playing. That day went fine but Thursday all ****** broke loose. That evening she began to tell me why she was having a hard time agreeing to no contact with the OM. She said she couldn't stand the thought of never being able to talk to him again even in a friend capacity. She tried to negotiate with me on it, but I stood firm and told her there could be no recovery until she agreed to NC. This set her off, and she yelled a bunch of things at me and went into the bathroom. She didn't seem to want me there any longer, so I packed up my stuff and decided I would start Plan B a bit early. I left the room for a minute after packing, and when I came back in her anger, she had thrown my stuff out on the floor. When I agreed not to leave that night, she began putting my stuff back in my bags. That is when she found my other cell phone.

I tried to think up an excuse but decided the truth is all I could do, so I told her about my separation plans. I also told her of the changes I had made to the bank account and my plans to move. She went absolutely crazy! We argued for a very long time, but I managed to keep my head and commit no LBs. I spoke the truth to her directly and patiently.

I planned on leaving the next day, but against my better judgment, she talked me into staying till Sunday. I thought this was terrible at first, but with the effect the knowledge of my leaving had on her I was able to reason with her for what felt like the first time. By the time I left, I felt she was very close to making the decision for NC. It unfortunately, didn't happen. It may have been lies and fog, but she said she could see hope for us for the first time. Just so everyone knows, at no point did I make any concessions about my separation plans or about the NC issue, although she tried very hard to get me to.

A wonderful thing happened (At least for me.) while we were talking through all this stuff on Saturday. It turns out the OM drank himself into the hospital for the second time in 3 months. From what my WS said he is going to have to go to rehab, which means he most likely won't be coming to visit her on the 12th.

Concerning the visit, I told her directly how disrespectful, humiliating, and down right mean it was to have him come stay with her. I also told her that it will make recovery much harder, because the thought of him staying with her in her apartment burns me up. It will also create a lot of resentment within me.


So on Sunday with many tears on both sides, I told her to respect my decision of separation, and that it didn't have to happen this way. I got in a cab, turned off my phone, and hopped on a plane back to my city.

It was the most brutally hard and depressing thing I have ever done, but I feel a millions times better today. I feel like everything is out in the open, and that I can start getting on with my life.

Thank you all for your overwhelming support and advice. I never would have made it this far without you. I will probably spend some time away from the boards for awhile as I collect myself, but I will let you guys know of any developments. You have my deepest gratitude.

As long as your wife knows the path back to you (the ACTIONS she needs to take in order for you to consider taking her back), then this is good.

It sounds like a very rocky start to your plan B tho...honestly, it might have been best if you had ended your plan A AWESOMELY...and THEN gone completely dark.

But done is done...you're were you are now. Now, HOLD FIRM to your plan B. Don't let her suck you in...enforce your communications boundaries with her, and plan on being on a rollercoaster ride yourself for a while. Somedays you're going to feel GREAT about this choice...other days you're going to be so down in the dumps it'll be VERY hard to keep plan B intact.

Be ready to deal with the down days, savor the good days, and keep it going friend!

I forgot to tell you guys that I got my STD test back today, and I am clean. Thank God for that.

I still don't know if she had a PA or not. Part of me thinks she would have thrown it in my face this weekend while she was angry but maybe not. I did get her to confess that she kissed him at least.

I feel I am going out of my head today! It appears that all my efforts to stop OM from staying with my WS in her apartment on tour are in vain. From the information I have gathered, it appears he is still going. From what I read in SAA Plan B allows the affair to play out to it's natural conclusion, but I don't think I can handle it. If the OM stays with her, I feel like it is the last injustice I can stand!

Another confusing item is that she bought me a plane ticket to come visit her at the next stop on the tour. During Plan A we had made plans for me to take a three week leave of absence from work and stay with her in this city. Her father told her that I would never come as long as there was OM "baggage", as he calls it. He made it sound like she was going to agree to NC after the OM's visit. The thing for me right now is that if he stays with her I feel like I won't want to reconcile. I sure won't want to visit her in the next city even if she agrees to NC.

I am not doing very good job of it, but I have been really trying to not obsess. I am trying not to look at her MySpace page or the bank transactions, but I can't seem to stop myself. I did finally ask her father to not tell me anything about her except for practical needs. I also told him I want to know if the OM goes to stay with her. This is something I feel I must know.

I thought that having her out of my daily life would make things better for me. It has in some ways. I am able to work at least. My friends have also been great in making sure I have plenty to do. Unfortunately, the longer this goes the more depressed I seem to get. God help me!

Me thinks you need to refocus. What are your personal boundaries? Hint: Needs t/b a short list. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

What do you mean by "personal boundaries"?

Personal Boundaries: Limits you recognize for yourself that you need to implement for your personal recovery.

My intitial list was long.... Too much to monitor. Then I realize the one never changing boundaries for me was for me NOT to have the OW in MY LIFE.

I realized I can't control the WS but I did realize I could have relative control who and what came into my life.

It empowered me. How? When the OW and WS tried to interfere in my life or inject fear in my life.... I was able to stop it and in many cases kick it back.

Would you like t/b able to that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Can you give me some examples from your list?

You are in Plan B because YOU KNOW she is in an affair. You cannot stop your W from doing anything. I am sorry this is happening, but the only thing you can do is calm down and remove yourself from this drama. BACK AWAY and stop tormenting yourself with her activities.

imterrified,

Haven't posted to you before, so welcolm to MB forums.

I will start out by saying that based on this post I'm reading, you are not at all in Plan B! Hang on, I'll explain as best I can.



In a truly dark plan b, you would not gather that, or any other information! You simply wouln't hear it.



Which is exactly why you supposed to be in plan b, to preserve the love for your WW before her actions totally destroy them.....


You have chosen a poor intermidaiate. Your FIL is telling you everything she's doing and that is very wrong. That is not the role of an intermidiary(sp). Remember aa few posts back when you were reminded that he needs to be your spam filter? Based on your post, he's telling you everything she is doing, which is going to destroy your plan b.


Wrong....Wrong....Wrong.... This is something you very much need not to know while in plan b!


But you haven done that at all! You wait for every tidbit FIL will give up to you, and continue to look at her MYSPACE account? Does that sound like she is out of your daily life? Not to me.

You need to go very dark here, imterrified, or this plan will blow up in your face. Go back and think of the goals of your plan. Preserve the love for your WW and wait till she meets your boundaries. Plan b is a last desperate act before plan D.

Back off and at least give yourself a chance. do it right and regardless of the outcome, you will always be able to look yourself in the mirror, and say, I did everything humanly possible to save my M.

I will pray for you.

All blessings,
Jerry

You don't need 'my' list. You need your list.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. What actions do I NOT tolerate from anyone, including my W?

2. What kinds of persons do I NOT tolerate in MY LIFE?

Answers to the above will help you define your personal and M boundaries. This means no matter who does them, you will NOT tolerate it in YOUR life.

See you can't control the lives of other adults (i.e. your W or even grown children) but you can control your own and what you let affect you beyond finding out about something hurtful. You can control what you let affect you. Just be reasonable about it. That's why the list must be short.

In my case NO OW c/b in My life. Even if that meant losing my H. See?

L.

Shinethrough,

That was a much needed and well delivered rebuke. The only reason my Plan B doesn't appear to be working for me is I am not letting it. I have recommitted myself to going completely dark. I am going to let my FIL know that I don't want to know anything about what is going on. I am also going to let him know why. I am also never going to look at her MySpace, email, or bank account again. I want to protect what love is left in my heart for her, and I feel like it can't take many more debits. I am also going to follow through with my plans to move. I have been putting it off, because I thought that she might come back soon.

Well done Ter,
I have been wondering how you have been doing. I am very glad that you came back here and posted so succinctly and received good counsel and are taking that good counsel. You are a very good man and competent at this art of marriage building, regardless of what heppens to this M--know that.

[quote] That was a much needed and well delivered rebuke. The only reason my Plan B doesn't appear to be working for me is I am not letting it. I have recommitted myself to going completely dark. I am going to let my FIL know that I don't want to know anything about what is going on. I am also going to let him know why. I am also never going to look at her MySpace, email, or bank account again. I want to protect what love is left in my heart for her, and I feel like it can't take many more debits. I am also going to follow through with my plans to move. I have been putting it off, because I thought that she might come back soon.
qoote)
Now your talking straight [email]sh@@[/email], this is not going to be an easy task. this is going to be the hardest thing you have ever tried. Why? Because you still love your WW.

Understand, that Plan b is not a somehow miracle act that will somehow recurect(sp) your M. It is the final and desperate act of a BS to turn it all around before D.

This is (sadly) the stage you find yourself in. So in your fianl desperate effort, do it right! If not, you will never forgive yourself, and will always wonder, "could I have done a better job of this?"

Reach out to Mortarman, he did it perfectly and it worked for him.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Ter,

Boundaries are something you establish and that define YOU. They describe who, what and how your are. They never define anyone else or their actions, only your own.

If you try to force your wife to end her affair by threatening her, with divorce, with leaving her, with anything else, that is not enforcement of your personal boundary and is in fact a violation of hers.

However, if you clearly state that you will not continue to live in a love triangle, that is YOUR choice, YOUR boundary and leaves her choices up to her. You state your limit (boundary) and even state the consequences of you boundary being violated (I'll file for LSA), but the boundary has to apply to you and your actions, not hers.

You can't own her stuff, just yours. Boundaries can't be set for others, only ourselves. We can't make someone else responsible for our feelings, wants or needs. And we can't take responsibility for theirs either. This is the idea of boundaries in a nut shell.

If you like to read, two books, both by John Townsend and Henry Cloud: "Boundaries" and "Boundaries In Marriage."

Mark

In the last two weeks things have gone absolutely crazy! It is pretty much my fault, but there is a silver lining.

Even after all the rebukes I received for continuing to follow my WS's relationship after starting Plan B, I could not stop myself. I did not protect the minuscule balance of my love bank, and it finally dropped to zero. When this happened I began actively seeking a divorce. I called my WS and told her about it, and she went crazy. She told me over and over that she didn't want this and wanted to try and work it out. She said that once the OM left, which is supposed to be in another week and half, she was going to tell him it was over. I have had nothing but anger, bitterness, and hatred in my heart for about a week, so I didn't really buy any of it. There was something in me that couldn't just let it go though, because I told her I would be willing to talk if he left now. But if he stayed the original length of time, it was over.

Oddly enough, she agreed to send him away a week early, which means he will leave Wednesday. She has also agreed to NC, but I need to hear that from her mouth not just in an email. Not completely what I wanted but a step in the right direction. Although, I feel like an idiot I have agreed to talk with her after he leaves on Wed. I also am thinking I am going to go stay with her at the next stop on the tour. It looks like it might cost me my job. (Another in a long list of sacrifices on my end.) I originally wanted her to sacrifice her job for me and come home, but I know for a fact she won't do it.

My family and friend think I am a total fool. I feel like a total fool. After all this woman has done to me, I am still going to try and work it out? Is there something wrong with me? I thought I was a strong, independent man, but I feel like I am just a doormat for her muddy feet.

I told her we have to lay down some ground rules or we will just end up yelling at each other every time we talk. I told her to go buy SAA, and that we had to follow the recovery rules. At least this will give us some direction and hopefully protect us from hurting each other further.

I pray God is with me on these very small, turbulent steps to recover. I pray that this anger that is consuming me and makes me want to lash out will subside. I pray that she becomes the woman I married again and not the selfish, ruthless [expletive deleted] she has become.

You are setting yourself up for a possible big disappointment. Plan B lasts until the other person is OUT of the picture. Now you have let her know that you will believe whatever feeble plan she conjures up. And this is the stuff that drains your love bank and makes it more likely YOU will be the one to want the divorce.

And now you want to go stay with her and maybe lose your job???? You are making too many sacrifices, and may resent it later.

What are ALL of your requirements for reconciliation??

Like:

1. NC with OM...FOREVER!
2. Marriage counseling for both of you.
3. IC counseling with a PRO-marriage counselor
4. Read and apply HNHN/SAA to your recovery and affair proof your marriage.
5. As part of that, she now must work to rebuild your trust of her by becoming completely transparent...totally open and honest, accounting for all time and actions for as long as it takes for you to regain your trust in her.

Get some ideas?

I think that Believer and I are trying to say the same thing. You don't end plan B based on a WS's WORDS...you do so based on their ACTIONS that clearly meet the conditions you set in your plan B letter to them.

Conditions like I mentioned above.

Exactly Owl. His wife and OM are living together as of today, and he is giving up the power of Plan B, and making deals for "when the OM is gone", and even thinking of taking the chance of losing his job. YIKES!!!!

I think that there has been a bit of a misunderstanding of what I have done. There is not now and never will be any compromise with NC. The condition of me even speaking to her on Wednesday is that the OM is gone, and she has agreed to NC ever again in any form. I have made no deals outside of that.

The change that occurred to Plan B was that I was ready to divorce her as of last week. The Plan B letter told her that I would agree to talk about working on the marriage if NC occurred. When faced with the divorce she almost immediately made the decision for NC. To me it was very close to too little too late. I was prepared to go through with the divorce no matter what she said. I thought I was completely not in love with her anymore. Something happened though and my heart softened a bit. This lead me to telling her father that I would back off the divorce and give us another chance if she agreed to the conditions in the Plan B letter. So all of Owl's condition list is in place.

As far as my plans to go stay with her at the next stop on the tour go, it was something we had talked about before Plan B began. As far as she knows, I am not going. I have not discussed it with her but have been planning for it myself. It turns out my bosses showed some compassion and are going to let me work from the road.

I hope this is a little more clear.

Plan B is when you send the letter, go dark, and have no contact with your wife. In reading your posts, it doesn't even look like you have started Plan B.

Now she is trying to appease you by sending OM away a week earlier? If she was serious, I would have thought she would have no contact IMMEDIATELY, in a last ditch attempt to prevent divorce.

Be that as it may, now the NC date is proposed for Wednesday........ Are you doing Plan B now, or are you still in contact?

You need to wait to have contact with her until AFTER she has no contact with the other man, AFTER she has written the no contact letter, AFTER she has taken extraordinary precautions (probably quitting her road work and staying home with you), and has agreed to work on the marriage.

IT,

I realize that you are not really going to listen to much of the advice you have been given. Therefore, I am not offering you advice. I am simply going to tell you what I think.

First, what has been suggested to you is a "PROCESS", it is not a fix. The reason that this is important is that even if she shows OM the door this week, YOU won't know if he is coming back and when. Why, because you used divorce as your trump card. It is indeed a powerful card, when you use it once, sometimes twice, but by the third time you are likely to hear "Cool, file."

Your W values her career more than the marriage, that is a fact. She values OM roughly as much as she values you. Even if OM is sent packing this week, she will still be on the road, she is in an environment where affairs are relatively common. How are you going to trust her?

Using plan A,and going into plan B are part of a process of recovery and rebuilding trust and faith in each other. What is your plan for doing this? what is your plan other than to risk your job, not move where you want to live, and chase after her IF she sends OM packing this week?

Young man you need a plan, and you need a detailed plan about how YOU are going to live your life...with or without your W. Work on that plan.

God Bless,

JL