Hello, I am new here. I know that this is long and rambling I tried to edit it, but I have been a mess since this is my first holiday alone, so please bear with me.
My D of D was March 27 and then on March 29 H revealed that he is still having affair, and when he said that he was in love with her and would not end the affair I took the advice of my church ladies bible study and I asked him to leave on March 31st (Based on Dr. Dobson’s book “Tough Love”. We have talked a few times he is living with OW 6 blocks away! Has seen his 3 kids 2 times in the past 6 weeks, once a scheduled visit and once we were at the grocery store and saw them groping each other! Kids are a mess, and quite honestly so am I. He says that he wants a D, I don't, but I don't know what to do!!
A started almost 2 years ago as a friendship at work and snowballed, oh yeah and I was pregnant with third child at the time! H has been lying and living a double life and would have continued if he didn't get sloppy and caught. I knew that something was not right between us and would ask him about it and he would cite stress and inability for us to connect emotionally lack of intimacy, then he started saying that he just didn’t love me anymore but that he cared for me a lot, but didn’t know what to do. I tried to schedule counseling but there was always excuses for why he couldn’t go at the last minute, and since we only have one car I wouldn’t be able to go either, so hence appt had to be cancelled.
In January, he lost his job because of this and is working a new job for a little more than a third of what he was making. I filed for support in beginning of April, but our hearing isn't for 3 months and he left all the bills, so I told him he needed to take the things in his name because I can't afford it, I have been a stay at home mom for 8 years now, and he said that would be fine but I wont be seeing any more money till the hearing! Since talking to his lawyer, this tune has changed and he has been voluntarily paying $500/week. I am getting by, but we are on welfare and Medicaid to help with those areas, but he took the truck, so we have no vehicle, so the children and I are at the mercy of friends and family and we are taking an emotional toll on all of our relationships because we are a lot to deal with! Three kids in car seats is a lot and my parents have a 20- 25 minute drive just to get to us!
We started dating at 16 split up for a few years remained friends and eventually started dating and married in 1997, in 18 years I thought I knew this man, we are Christians for heaven sake. How did this happen and where do I go from here???????
I have been working myself I have lost a significant weight, in fact I already weigh less than I did when we got back together in 1994. I have been working hard at self love and improvement, taking all the assessments on the site and trying to concentrate on figuring out who I am again and what brings me joy, besides my children. I even enrolled in an online university to pursue my masters degree, I start on May 27th.
Plan B is in progress, he had been taking money from the kids and I and so I have started my own bank accounts and support process, I have a Christian lawyer he is competent and everything but extremely low key and don’t know if he is really going to fight for me and the kids to protect them from my H’s terrible choices, temper, and such. He has been contacting me via the phone and e-mail pretty consistently until this past Tuesday, our daughter finally talked to him and I think she hurt him pretty badly with all the pent up rage for him, so he called me back Tues night to check on us and talk more and I blew up. He keeps trying to tell me that this is ALL my fault!! I am so sick of hearing how his sin and choices are my fault and I told him again that I needed some time to be alone and try to get my feet in under me and that the children know his number and e-mail and that I have told them I would help them contact him any time that they want to. I am trying to tell them and reassure them that their Father loves them, but when you tell the children that you have chosen the OW instead of their b-day parties and holidays and special events and vacations, I am having a really hard time convincing them! Also when he is with them he hollers at them a lot and tells them to shut up a lot, so he has done heavy damage to these little ones, I want them to have a relationship with him, but he asked me again Tues night to host a bbq and invite him and the OW over to meet the children and see that she is a wonderful person and will make a wonderful mother to them! Really I thought that was my job??????? My family thinks I should be swift and hard and file for Plan D, but I am not ready to give up the children need their Father, lousy as he is, I believe he can change, am I just deluding myself?????
When he talks to us that she is not around he is so kind and cries a lot and seems like he is breaking under this and then she gets around and then he is this hard, hateful man again!! I keep giving him daily to God sometimes it is more like hourly, but I miss him so much, he was my best friend. I am doing okay, I am getting through each day and moving forward, but I really have NO idea what I am supposed to be doing. He won’t file for a D because of the expense, so how long should I just sit tight and pray and wait??? I am so lost and confused, I just want my life back. We began dating at 16! I thought I knew this man, but I just feel so disoriented and I have our three small children and I am trying to be strong for them, but I have had no time to grieve or try to deal with this on my own other than now that I have found this website. I need to get a copy of the book to read, but haven’t been able to order one yet. I am praying all the time for him and for her, the OW, I just feel so violated in so many ways and don't know where to start to heal! He is with another woman that has MY NAME!!! He started this affair while I was pregnant! Just so much and I just want to pack up and run away so that I can just get away from it all, but I know that won’t make it go away either!


I know that I have screwed up so much in this, I have hollered and lost my temper and said mean things and I have confessed that all, but I have had 6 weeks of stress and humiliation and lonliness, and he has had 2 years to pull away and now he is in the arms of another and has no responsibilities and problems.
I feel so needy and like I am always taking from those around me without any ability to really give back to them, and I have always been a giver, almost to a fault, so this has been so hard for me. I am always apologizing and saying I am sorry for bothering people for needing to talk and vent because I know that they are busy with their own families and issues and such, and I don't want them to feel like their needs are any less important or stressful than mine! In fact I have had that come to my attention that people are having trouble that I am so much and take so much time that they feel that their problems and trials and stresses aren’t important

I still with God’s hand love my H very much and I know that he still loves me, but he is so trapped by sin that he cannot see how it is possible to change his circumstances or where we are now, so what am I supposed to do and how do I survive this!!

klben,

It is very late here and I am heading to bed. I will offer a few thoughts and suggestions. First read all of the articles here by Harley. Second seek some pro-marriage counseling. Third, why are the tax payers of your state supporting you and the children when your H is supposed to be doing this? Go to the state or the court and file on your H for support tomorrow. I suspect that your state agencies take a very dim view of an H not meeting his repsonsibilities, see if they will help you get support from your H.

Next have you read about plan A? If not read it. Part of plan A is exposure. Have you exposed to your family, his family, and yes friends? If not you need to do so. I will tell you that exposure is not about revenge, it is about you seeking the help of others to save your marriage. Shining the light of day often begins the process of an A ending, make sure OW's family and friends know what type of person she is as well.

Nothing good will happen until the A ends. Read about plan A, expose and come here and ask plenty of questions.

God Bless,

JL

Hugs, KL. (((((klbenfield)))))

KL, I am a fellow believer and I know from "having been where you find yourself today" how totally unbelievable and how devastating adultery by your spouse is to you.

You have said that you are both Christians, and that was true of my situation as well. But STILL my wife got herself ensnared in sin and it became "blinding" to her as her "feelings" lied to her, telling her that "God didn't REALLY mean what He said."

Let me assure you that God DOES "mean what HE says."

My question to you is whether or not you'd like to talk about the "what to do" sorts of things from the perspective of YOU being surrendered to, and humbly obedient to, what God has said?

I don't want to presume that you want to talk about that sort of "stuff" right now, as you are emotionally reeling from the effects of adultery, but as one believer to another, "to whom else would we go, Master?" is truth and is where believers should remain anchored when the violent storms hit.

If you'd like to talk about the "faith" component in this "valley of the shadow of death" you are facing, I'll be happy to try to provide some support, and potentially some advice, that may help you in this time of need.

But for now, let me simply SUPPORT your decision to have your husband leave. NOW, read about "plan B" and get yourself ready to "Go dark," and cut him off of ALL contact with you and with the children. You do NOT allow a self-absorbed, self-centered, rapist and child molester anywhere near yourself or the children. YOU become the "mama she-bear" and NOBODY "messes with your children without going through you first!"

Next, what JL asked is extrememly important and needs to be answered by you, and answered now. WHO have you exposed your husband's affair to and WHY do they HAVE a "need to know?"

Let's start with family. Have you exposed the affair to his family, your family, your church family?

At this point your "objective" is NOT to get him to end the affair. Your objective "for now" should be to begin to Destabilize the affair. Affairs flourish in secret, hidden in the dark, so that a "false front" can be presented to others. It is time that "the light of day" (Reality that exposure brings) begins to shine on his "hidden sin" and that will begin to take some of the "luster" off of his "feelings." So let's begin there, okay?

The last thing I want to comment on, for your protection and for the protection of the children, is a couple of statements that I will quote from your post:


NO! You do not want your children to have a relationship with ANYONE who is willfully sinning against God. The "person" you want them to have a relationship is Jesus. The "person" you think is their father is NOT their father. His "Body" may look the same, but he has been replaced by an "evil alien" and is NOT the husband or father you "have in your mind." DO NOT allow this. Your husband NEEDS (if you truly do love him) to begin to feel the CONSEQUENCES of his self-indulgence, and that includes the LOSS of his children. If all he wants to do is be a source of money, then fine, the Divorce Courts will see to that. He can even PLAY at being a father "once in a while," if the courts grant him "visitation rights."

But you plan to file for divorce on the grounds of Adultery, NOT "irreconcilable differences." You file for divorce for CAUSE. Have a very frank talk with your Christian attorney and ask him if adultery is ANATHEMA to God? If it is, what is God's response to what is anathema to Him? (See God's judgment upon Adam and Eve, the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. for examples).

Your husband "purports to be a Christian" but rejects the fundamental principle of submitting his life TO God, no matter what his feelings happen to be. Tell your attorney you EXPECT him to "stand in your place" as the "she-tiger, sharp claws and all, protecting your children and you from the ravenous 'wolf in sheeps clothing' that is against God and God's commandments."

IF your attorney is unwilling to be THAT defender of you and of God, then get another attorney who will.




You ARE their mother. SHE is a thief, a liar, an adulteress, a person at complete enmity with God. FIGHT! There will be NO time when she is allowed around your children while you still live. She will NEVER be their "mother" and the children are too young to understand that, so you DO what mothers do for their children and you FIGHT FOR them.

There will be NO bbq. Not now, not ever. She is NOT a "wonderful person." She may want people to "think" she is, but she is EVIL. She has no respect for God. She has NO respect for the sanctity of marriage nor the responsibility of PARENTS for their children. She is selfishness "incarnate" and is NOT a role model for anyone with any sense of godly morals and ethics. STAND YOUR GROUND!

Righteous Anger is expected by God when you are confronted with blatant sin, so GET ANGRY and don't try for vengeance, but DO STAND against sin or any tolerance of sin, or any "hint" that adultery is "okay" for your children. God is CLEAR, "You will NOT commit adultery," and "no unrepentant adulterer will be in heaven." God does NOT "compromise" or accept a "LIE" as the truth.

Now, assuming your still love your husband and would be willing to forgive the sin and to attempt to recover and rebuild your marriage, understand that you "Fight" against the SIN, not the person. Understand also that NOTHING you "want to do" that is "nice" and "forgiving" and "plan A" types of behaviors will register on your husband or have any effect on him until the affair is destablized and the "fantasy world" they have created begins to crack and crumble as REALITY begins to "intrude."

ALL sin has consequences. They want to deny that reality. It is your job to let your husband know that while you cannot "control what he chooses to do," he does NOT get to choose actions without any consequences.

God bless.

Thank you ForeverHers and Yes, I do want to face this in God's armor and fighting a moral Godly war against this! I do love my husband very much, but realize that I haven't loved myself, or really God since I put my H in his place at the center of my life.
I have exposed the adultery to my friends, family, his family, and our church. His parents are totally with him, his mother says "This is a part of his sacred journey and that if I ever loved him that I will let him go and be happy for him that he has finally found true happiness and his true soul mate." Clearly they are not believers, so we won't even go there because they went out to dinner with them yesterday for mothers day, oh yeah and his parents hired his lawyer, so I guess they don't really like me! The only people I have not contacted is some of his work friends who became mutual friends we went to dinner and such with. No one has reached out to me, so I didn't know if I should contact/say anything to them.

Support, I filed on April 14th and our hearing is on July 18th until then he is supposed to pay voluntary support of $500/week. He has until last week been paying just very erratic about when it goes into the account.

As for contact with him, there has been none since last Tuesday, and I have not been initiating contact, since mid April, I had some forms he had to sign over on some bills, contact has been coming from him. I guess I am frustrated because none of our "friends" or "church family" has called or contacted him to say that what he is doing is wrong, you know Matthew 18. I feel like the only one that has said that what he is doing is wrong is me. Am I wrong to believe that he should be confronted in his sin by these people?

I agree whole heartedly about the advice on the children. They dont want contact with him because he is sinning and in their eyes is "dirty and sick" with sin. I am trying to find a Christian counselor for us to work with, but have not found any in our area, and with the transportation issue right now I am struggling there. I have been going to a few of the ladies at my church, but I think that I am struggling with saying the things that people want to hear, but in my heart still kicking and screaming that this is just wrong! I love the Lord and want to change, because I see some things that I clearly should have done differently, so I am working on me. I have lost a significant amount of weight, am working on developing some self esteem that I allowed my H to kill off over the last few years, and figuring out again who I am, where God wants me, and how to support the children in the meantime. In fact, I am starting a Masters of Ed program online on May 27th. I love working with children and want to give back and help other children that are struggling too.

So, that is where I am at this moment in time. I am sad because mothers day was yesterday and it was my first holiday that I was alone with the children, we had a good day, but it was bittersweet without my H. Thankfully God's mercies are new every morning!

klb, I have to confess that when I hear this sort of thing, my blood "boils."

The "object" of forgiveness is not to "excuse" sin, it is the establishement, or reestablishment, of Relationship.

Let's be perfectly clear here, the Scripture is clear and definitive, NO unrepentant adulterers will be in heaven.

Therefore, if your church is truly committed to God, Matthew 18:15-20 is NOT "optional." It is a COMMAND directly from Jesus Christ that is geared to conviction, confession, repentance, forgiveness and restoration of fellowhip; first with God and second with whomever was also sinned against(like YOU, the faithful spouse).

My advice would be to call the Pastor of your church and book an appointment. When you are face to face, explain the situation to him and ask for a "church discipline" intervention according to the Matthew 28:15-20 steps that Jesus gave us.

IF the Pastor will not do this, find another church, that one (if they don't believe in being obedient to ALL of God's commands) is NOT a church that is surrendered to God. It is "self-serving" and has lost it's purpose of "being," to minister to the lost souls and to STAND for God, not the "world's ways of doing things."

God bless.

{{{{{KLB}}}}} hugs to you. I know you are hurting. I know your pain intimately. I am sorry you are here, but you will find the support, encouragement, and help that you need.

First of all, your husband is a typical WS. His affair is not "special". His lies and justifications are the same we all have heard. That is what we call the WS fog babble. Try your best to ignore it, as hard as that is to do. He is just babbling to make himself feel better about doing something horrible.

I will tell you that my husband was a wonderful Christian husband and father, until the affair. Then he morphed into what we refer to as the alien. I could no longer "see" my husband. It was as if he was lost or dead. So all that you write is not new here. If you work the plans, you will have the best shot at recovering your marriage. There is no guarantee. But I can tell you that the Plans worked for me.

First of all, realize that this is a spiritual battle for your family. Fight it as such. You are still one flesh with your husband and your prayers have more power than you realize. Pray for his deliverance. Pray for God to run after him and wrestle him. Pray for him to be restored to God first and his family second. Pray for your own protection and for your children's. Your biggest fight is in the spiritual realm.

Next, you must take care of yourself. Eat as best you can, try to get a decent amount of rest. Focus on the basics. The rest is unimportant. Take care of you, so that your children have ONE parent they can count on. They NEED you.

Read up on Plan A on this website. I will try to find the articles and link them here for you. Plan A consists of two parts: the carrot (improving yourself and understanding his ENs and demonstrating willingness to meet them) and the stick (exposure). Both parts are CRITICAL. Do not skip any. I will be back with more details about them.

Do not worry about Plan B right now. You need to Plan A first for a short period of time (2-3 months). Then you can move into Plan B.

However, it is quite clear that you need financial protection. If your lawyer is not willing to deal with that immediately, then find someone who will. You don't need a Christian lawyer. You need a lawyer who will fight to protect you and your children, whether he is a Christian or not. Find one. You do not want a lawyer who is going to play nice, or one that is going to encourage you to play nice, you want one that will do what is necessary to see to it that you receive what you deserve.

That's enough for now. 1. Pray 2. eat, rest, basics 3. read Plan A 4. lawyer to deal with finances immediately

Keep posting here.

As soon as you can get Surviving an Affair, read it. The library probably has it.

You are not alone. There is much in your story that reminds me of my own. Hang in there. You will get through this.

Hello again. I wanted to come back and address some specific things in your post.




Wayward babble. I heard the same thing, and so have most BS's here. Now my FWS is disgusted by OW.



It might have been better to not ask him to leave until you could work a really solid Plan A.

But, at this point, you'll have to work the best Plan A you can without him home.

I, too, have read Tough Love and found it very helpful.




I'm sorry. I know how much this hurts. My FWS didn't move in with OW, but certainly stayed with her a lot...and her with him.




You cannot control your husband. Focus on what you can control. Make your home comfortable and as happy as you can for your children.

Settle in to your own routine that you get to control. Hopefully, down the road, your WS will decide to join you.





Very common.




More WS babble. blah, blah, blah. They all say it. Try to not let it get in.




My husband did similar things when it came to counseling. Lots of excuses to avoid it.

As long as he is in an active affair, counseling is useless anyway. He will rewrite history, lie, and then say, "Well, I did all I could. I even went to counseling."





Document everything. Find old pay stubs from his prior job.

Three months is way too long to wait. Why will it take that long?

Things that are in his name and are not essential, let go overdue. But DO NOT pay. These are his responsibilities. You need to save what money is coming in for your necessities.

I am not that helpful with this part, because my FWS never considered not financially supporting us while he was gone, although he did cut the amount coming because he "needed something to live on." UGH!





I wrote almost word for word the same thing during my FWS's affair.

Where you go right now is focusing in on Plan A, then Plan B.





You are not ready for Plan B. Right now, you need to Plan A.

Plan B isn't about bank accounts and support. Plan B is when you have NO contact with WS AT ALL, not even when exchanging children for visitation.

But first, you need a good Plan A, so that he sees changes in you and will remember positive things about you, when you do go into Plan B.



This is NOT your fault. You WS made a choice to give to someone else what belonged only to you.

You may own some of the condition within the marriage that left open emotional needs for someone else to fill. But HE MADE THE CHOICE TO let someone else fill them, and HE MADE THE CHOICE to have the affair.

This is all his. Do not own any part of the affair.




EXACTLY! And don't let anyone make you think otherwise. It IS HIS sin and HIS choices.

You got it!



That's because he is not loving them right now.

Love is about what we DO. He can say he loves them all he wants. But they are WATCHING for HOW he loves them.

I'm sorry. I know how much it hurts to see your babies hurt like this.

Tell them something like this:

"Daddy was tempted and allowed sin into his life. That little bit of sin grew and now he is completely blinded by it. He doesn't see how much he is hurting you. But one day he will. And he will be sorry for it. Let's pray for daddy, that God will make him see it now, so that we can be a family again."




My husband's behavior toward our children was very bizzarre during his affair. There were times when he was verbally abusive.

I realized that the man he had become was not the "father" they deserved and that as long as he was wacked out, they were better off with very little contact.






HE is responsible for his relationship with them.

You be the best mom you can be.





This is one of the worst examples of wayward, wacked-out thinking I have EVER seen.

UNFREAKIN' BELIEVABLE!!!!

Do not let your children around OW. She is an enemy to your marriage, to your children's family and way of life.

Her goal is to destroy all that gives them security and peace.

I would make it clear to WS that under no uncertain terms are your children to be around OW ho!





You have every right, including Scripturally, to divorce.

Family and friends who have not faced infidelity cannot understand what you are dealing with. And family and friends will offer much advice.

Please remember that a lot of the MB program is counter-intuitive. That means that what you SHOULD do is not necessarily what you FEEL LIKE doing, or what it SEEMS LIKE you should do.

They offer adviced based on tid bits of what they've read here and there, or heard, or think, or feel.

But Dr. H. has done a great deal of research to come up with his program...Plan A, Plan B, and hopefully recovery.





Good for you. Then you are at the right place. We have seen it happen many times. Marital recovery IS possible.

As far as "can he change". What kind of man was he before the affair? THAT is the man you are fighting for. Is HE worth fighting for? If so, then dig in your heels and put on your armor.

My FWS thanks me for fighting for him, for our marriage, for our children, and for our family.




I understand. My husband has always been my best friend, lover, confidante, partner, supporter, encourager.

It is so lonely without them.

Lean on God. Let Him be all that for you.

Dig into Scripture and pray it.

Write verses and prayers all over your house.

You will make it through this.

OK, a few questions about exposure:

Have you talked personally with your pastor?

Do you have any "couples" friends that you both were close with? If so, can you ask the husbands to confront your husband?

Is OW married?

Have you exposed to OW's parents, husband, children (if grown)?

Remember, when you expose, you tell them that your WS has abandoned you and the children to pursue an affair. Tell them that you are working hard to restore your family and ask for their support.

THAT is it. It is not about spreading the word, gossiping, revenge.

It is about rallying people of influence in your husband's life to come along side your family and support your efforts to restore it as God designed.

I'm sorry your in-laws are such ingrates.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

Okay, so talking exposure: I have told our mutual friends at church and outside, but have not called any of the people that he used to and she still works with that called us my H and I friends. I have not spoken to WS's family since initial confrontation, they are so blind and think that he is making good decisions. I don't know who I should be calling, should I contact his brother his best friends and tell them even though they know? And if so what do I tell them?

I guess that I am doing both Plan A and B??? or a mess is a better way to look at it. One time I have a great conversation, and things end well, and then he calls when she is home and is emotionally abusive and then I cry and say stupid things and one of us ends up hanging up. I call and apologize for saying stupid things, but it gets hard to remember and think in the emotional and verbal abuse. I try to say it isn't a good time and he just keeps pushing, so last week I told him that it is just too hard right now and that I love him and am totally committed to him and our marriage, but that I cannot talk to him for a while, so that I can focus on getting the kids and I healthy and on our feet and if he is not going to leave her, or get his own apartment and figure out who he really is and what he wants then I need some time to adjust.

Okay, KL, why don't you tell me a little about your church, the church's doctrinal statement, whether or not you and your husband are members of the church, does the church have just a Pastor or does it also have Elders, etc..



I agree with you, clearly they are not believers. Therefore, don't expect anything related to God, much less obedience to God, to have any meaning to them. Expect NO support of any kind from them.

Now, given that they are not Christians and are very "worldly" and "humanistic," how is it that your husband became a Christian?



I don't know where you live, but if you'd like I can give you the web address for the National Association of Nouthetic Counselors. "Nouthetic" means biblical. Many of them provide counseling at no charge as part of their ministry. You could check to see if there are any counselors in your area.



If the ladies are helpful to you, then it's fine if you want to get some support from them. But it would be my guess that none of them has any experience with infidelity and probably don't know what to do or say and about all they can do is offer you an "ear" to talk to.

That's fine as far it goes, but you really need to getting advice from people who have experienced infidelity and have been through what you are just now facing. You will get both sympathy and "hard talk" when it's needed, but most importantly you will get truth. It can hurt, and it can be NOT what you "want to hear," but believe me when I say that you need the suggestions and advice of people who have waded through the flood waters themselves.

In addition, you need spiritual guidance from someone who is also a strong believer, because at the end of the day, whatever you do must also be in agreement with the will of God.



"Plan A" type changes are good, but it's very difficult to make any comments here without knowing more about what you think are "things I clearly should have done differently." If you feel up to it, why don't you post what those things are and what things you want to change about yourself.


Now, you have not yet addressed my previous comments about your Pastor and the Matthew 18 issue. What is your update on those things?


Now, a little "tough talk" that may be a bit distressing to you, but it's needed base upon your comments about an almost total lack of effectual help.

Get with an attorney and prepare to file for Divorce. It would be a good idea to have the papers served on your husband so he will there IS going to be consequence and that his "future" will not be including you or the children. You don't have to go through with the divorce if you don't want to, but you also have to be prepared to actually Divorce if he continues to be selfish and unrepentant. Along with that, stay in Plan B, get a Plan B leter written (there are examples on MB that you can use and/or modify a little), get an "intermediary" lined up so that ALL communication goes THROUGH the intermediary and not directly between you and your husband.

God is God of peace, and that is also one of the reasons He allows divorce as a legitmate "option" for the Faithful Spouse (you). God also will provide comfort for you during this extremely difficult time through the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Remember, following Scripture WILL help and will keep your actions "God honoring" even if one of those actions IS to divorce your husband because he remains "stiff-necked" and unrepentant.

God bless.

KLB, I'm sorry that you are here and in such pain. I understand and remember this devastating pain like it was yesterday, and my year D-day is in two days.

I need to for myself address this. We are human beings and regardless of what religion we are, unless we take precaution to prevent A, they can happen to ANYONE, if you are Christian or not.

Ok, I feel better.

Now on to you. You have found the most wonderful place with people who truly understand your pain and will help you to devise a Plan that will help you recover from this. I NEVER thought that possible a year ago. But it's true.

If you want your M, there is lots to do and lots to learn. Please keep asking questions, feel the pain and know that everyone on here understands and cares that you are hurting.

I am going to read the rest of your story, but welcome you to MB and know that I just care and am here.

I'm going to have to disagree with FH on Plan B.

An important part of Plan B is first delivering a solid Plan A, which has not happened.

Considering how horrendous your WS is being, I do think that a SHORT Plan A is in order...about 4 weeks.

Come here and vent. Come here and share the details so that we can help you pull off Plan A. It is difficult when faced with so much hurt. But you can do this, and we will help you.

Your friends and family wil not understand Plan A. They will think you are being a doormat. Just let them know you are fighting for your marriage and you do have a plan to protect yourself.

Can you commit to Plan Aing for 4 weeks? (1. Demonstrating to WS your commitment to make changes to be a better spouse, and 2. Exposing strategically to people of influence in WS's life)

You must get your financies secured immediately. This is a critical issue that must be dealt with before you can go into Plan B. So, if your lawyer isn't willing to do what is necessary immediately to get you and your children protected, find one who will.

We can help you prepare for Plan B during that time. Plan B will protect you from the abuse and drama of the affair and wayward attitude. It will also help you preserve love for your WS while he spirals down an ugly path.

Plan B isn't a "run and hide" type of behavior. It demonstrates your strength and resolve and clearly sets your boundaries. It must be done with forethought and planned and executed carefully. If not, he will break through your Plan B, and you will lose credibility.

So, tell me, are you up for 4 weeks of Plan A?

Just checking in with you.

How are you doing today?

Hello everyone, today was a good day. A friend came and took the kids and I out to McD's for lunch and a great time of play, I got our 1/2 acre mowed, and homeschooling went okay! So, all in all I would say successfully managed another day!

As for the responses, I am confused, I don't know who I am supposed to expose to since everyone knows, but I guess that I should expose on my side, but I am not sure what to even say to anyone. I really need to order a copy of the book, I have been trying to learn online and stupidly save the money! I know silly it is only $20 with shipping and all, but I am the frugal spouse!

I also spoke with the pastor of our church today, it was a good conversation, he apologized for seeming not to care or be involved in my situation, he said that he has had meetings with the deacons and elders and that they are trying to get organized to make their interventions effective and organized. They are working on the car situation and organizing a work team to come and help with some of the repairs to our home that WS left undone in various stages. The pastor has been praying about confronting WS, he has been hesitant to confront him due to their history. WS went to the pastor in Jan 07 and confessed to an emotional affair with this woman but that it ended but he didn't know how to heal from it and reconnect with family. Pastor gave him some assignments and said they would get back together in a few weeks to talk more, but neither on pursued getting back together again, so WS has been blaming the pastor and saying that if he really cared about him that he would have pursued him and seen that there was more to it than that, but he didn't, so the pastor due to this anger has been hesitant to be the one to initiate contact, but he has his address and all phone numbers and is praying about how to proceed. The other reason that he had not contacted him yet, was that he and many others have been praying for him to reach out on his own to one of the men that he was close too, but it is now going on two months and the pastor said it was long enough! I thought it was long enough hours after he left!

Below is the Doctrinal statement of our church:

The Trinity…We believe in one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect and eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:1; John 4:24; 10:30; 2 Cor. 13:14)

The Holy Scriptures…We believe the Holy Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, to be the verbally inspired Word of God, without error in the original writings, to complete revelation of God's will for the salvation of man, and the divine and final authority for all Christina faith, life, and conduct (2 Pet. 1:20,21; 2 Tim 3:16,17).

The Nature of Man…We believe that man was directly created by God in His own image and likeness. After Adam fell into sin, the entire human race became alienated from God and is therefore eternally lost. The natural man of himself is utterly unable to remedy his lost condition (Rom. 3:10, 23; 5:12; Eph 2:1, 2; Gen 1:26)

Satan…We believe in the personality of Satan; that he is the author of sin and the cause of man's fall; that he is the avowed enemy of God and man; and that he is doomed and shall be eternally punished in the lake of fire (Job 1:6,7; Eph. 6:11,12; Rev. 20:10)

Jesus Christ…We believe that Jesus Christ being the eternal Word, on with the Father, was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary; that He died on the cross, thereby being a perfect and complete sacrifice for the sins of all mankind; and that He rose bodily from the dead and ascended into heaven, where He is now seated on the right hand of the Majesty on high and ever lives to intercede as our High Priest and Advocate (John 1:1,2; Luke 1:35; Heb. 4:14-16).

The Atonement…We believe that without the shedding of blood there is no remission for the sins of all mankind, and that the shed of blood of Christ is the basis of the reconciliation of a believer with God (Rom. 3:24-26; Heb 9:22).

Resurrection…We Believe that Jesus Christ rose bodily from the grave and that His resurrection provides the proof of out completed justification for all who believe. We believe in the physical resurrection of all men: the saints to everlasting joy and bliss, and the wicked to conscious and eternal torment (Rom. 4:24; 1 Tim 2:5; 1 Cor. 15:21,22; Rev. 20:4-15).

Justification by faith…We believe that men are justified solely on the basis of faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit which brings salvation and eternal life (John 3:3,5; Acts 13:38,39; Rom 3:24,25; 5:1,9; Col 1:14).

Eternal Security of the Believer…We believe that all born again believers, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, are eternally secure in Christ and shall never come into condemnation for sin. While it is the believers privilege to rejoice in the assurance of salvation, this is not cause for license of liberty as an occasion to the flesh (John 10:28,29; Rom.8:38,39; Eph. 1:13,14; Gal. 5:13).

Person and Work of the Holy Spirit…We believe that the Holy Spirit is a Person, coequal with God the Father and God the Son, who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. He regenerates, baptizes, seals, indwells, fills, enlightens, guides and empowers the believer for godly living and service (John 16:8,13,14; Acts 1:8; 1 Cor. 2:9-12; 3:16; 12:13; Eph. 5:18)

Gifts of the Holy Spirit…We believe that God gives spiritual gifts to all believers. Some gifts of the Holy Spirit are permanent and are to be used throughout the Church Age. Other gifts were temporary and were given in the Apostolic Age for the purpose of founding the Church. Having fulfilled their purpose, they are not necessary and are not given today. We believe the temporary gifts include the gifts of apostleship, prophecy, miracles, healings, tongues, and the interpretation of tongues (Rom. 12:3-8; 1 Cor. 12:13-14; 13:8; 2 Cor. 12:12; Heb. 2:3,4; Mark 16:20).

We believe that God does hear and answers the prayer of faith, according to His own will, for the sick and afflicted (1 Cor. 12:7-11; Eph. 4:7-12; 2 Cor. 12:12; James 5:15).

The Church…We believe that the Church, which is a spiritual organism made up of all born-again believers of this present age, is the body of Christ of which He is the Head. Its purpose is to proclaim the gospel of Christ and gather believers into local churches for worship and edification, and to equip for service, thereby planting new congregations though out the world ( 1 Cor. 12:12; Eph. 1:22,23; 4:11-16).

We believe that the New Testament teaches that local churches are to be free and independent under Christ to establish their own government, make their own decisions and determine their own procedures. This does not in any way hinder fellowship and/or working relationships with other churches of like faith and practice (1 Tim 3:1-13; Titus 1:5-9).

Separation from the World…We believe that all redeemed ones are called into a life of separation from all worldly and sinful practices (Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 6:14; James 4:4; 1 John 2:16).

Two Natures of the Believer…We believe that all who are born-again possess two natures, with provision made from victory over the old nature through the death of Christ and by the power of the indwelling Spirit.

We believe that all claims to eradication of the old nature in this life are unscriptural (Rom. 6:13; 7:14-8:4; Gal. 5:16-25; Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:1-10; 1 Pet. 1:14-16; 1 John 3:5-9).

Second Coming of Christ…We believe in the personal, pretribulational, premillennial, and imminent return of our Lord Jesus Christ for a vital influence on the personal life and service of the believer; and that Christ will subsequently return to the earth at the end of the tribulation with his saints to establish His millennial kingdom (Acts 1:11; 1 Cor. 15:51.52; 1 Thes. 1:10; 4:16,17; Rev. 19:11-21).

Missions…We believe that it is the obligation of every born-again believer to bear witness by life and word to the truths revealed in the Word of god and to help proclaim the gospel to all the world through missions and missionaries (Acts 1:8; 2 Cor. 5:19,20; Matt. 28:18-20).

Dispensationalist…We believe in the dispensational view of Bible interpretation, but we reject the extreme teaching known as "hyperdispensationalism," which opposes the ordinances of the Lord's table and water baptism for this age (Eph. 3:1-9)

The Ordinances…We believe that water baptism as a confession of faith, and the Lord's table in remembrance of Christ, are ordinances to be observed by the during age. They are, however, not to be regarded as a means of salvation (Matthew 28:19.20; Acts 8:12,38; 10:48; 1 Cor. 11:23-28).

As for whether I would be willing to do a one month plan A I would but don't know if that could be possible right now. I feel like he needs to be the one to contact me, because he is testing me to see if I really meant it when I told him that unless it was an emergency that I would wait for him to contact me. He sees me as weak, codependent, and unable to be on my own, that I need him. So, given that I really am not sure how I would initiate further contact and have him think that I am not needy and begging?
I enrolled myself into college and I am beginning my masters degree the 27th! I am very excited this is something I have always wanted to do, but doubted that I could and WS always wanted me home with the children and didn't see the need to "waste" the money for more education, he is a student of Robert Kiyosaki's thinking and thought that a home business was what we needed to do, and he has tried several, all halfheartedly. I think that when he sees that I am strong and changing that it will make more of an impact, however, I am concerned that this will push him further away because he has said several times that I am strong and don't need him, and I agree I don't need him, but I do desire him as my friend and companion and lover, but that rests largely in his hands. He has to reach out to the repentance, restoration, and forgiveness that the Lord has waiting for him and then we can see to our recovery.

Thanks everyone for your help and love!!!

SunflowerSmile - I'm going to assume you are NOT new to MB, as your registration date of just 2 weeks ago would imply.

So, given that you already know about MB and sound as though you are more into "advising" than seeking help with your own situation, let me ask you a question.

It's okay to disagree with me, or anyone for that matter, but in the interest of really trying to help her, how do you propose she do a "Plan A" when her husband is not at home, nor does he seem to be much interested in any contact with her or the children?

She can certainly work on whatever changes in herself that she alluded to, but this affair is not likely to respond to "Love Bank" deposits at this time because no "crisis" has been precipitated yet.

When the Pastor talks to him, the only question that should be posed is "how do you justify claiming to be a Christian while deliberately and willfully being disobedient to God's command against adultery and spitting on the COVENANT of marriage?"

Confront him, in love, with the Word of God and what GOD says about what he is doing. Ask him to repent and seek God's forgiveness, but be firm about the FACT that God is not pleased with what he is doing.

If God did not spare His own Son, by what right does he "spit in God's eye" and walk all over what God did for him?

I agree that going backwards would be extremely difficult, but what about the continuing with no contact. Is that where I am right now, I think that it is, but I am confused!!!

Should I be talking to more of our friends and "exposing" to them, if so what should I be saying since they all know that he has left us? Am I to tell them that I want restoration? Most of these if not all are not Christians, so please help me!! I want to do the right things, I know that I have messed up a lot in not doing things in the right order, but I love my husband and know that he is in there somewhere!!!!

I agree that going backwards would be extremely difficult, but what about the continuing with no contact. Is that where I am right now, I think that it is, but I am confused!!!

Should I be talking to more of our friends and "exposing" to them, if so what should I be saying since they all know that he has left us? Am I to tell them that I want restoration? Most of these if not all are not Christians, so please help me!! I want to do the right things, I know that I have messed up a lot in not doing things in the right order, but I love my husband and know that he is in there somewhere!!!!

What should I be doing????? Besides a lot of prayer and reading...

klb - Let me say first of all that "confusion" is NORMAL. So please don't "beat yourself up" over this, look at this as a time to patiently "endure" while you lean on Christ and know that while you might not know what is going on or why all of this is happening, HE does.

Have you "formalized" the no contact with a "Plan B" letter? It didn't sound like it yet. So if that is the direction that you think you want to go to protect your love for your husband, then consider that you might want to delay such a letter until AFTER a Matthew 18:15-20 intervention has had a chance to see if your husband will be convicted of his sin and repent.

Let's assume for a minute that the Pastor, or whoever is involved in such and intervention, are "successful" and your husband WANTS to stop the adultery and would like to return to you, but he will also at that time be feeling a lot of guilt and may well feel like it is "too late" or that you "just can't forgive him." Those are normal reactions and you will need to know what YOU will do when he does get his head out of his backside and begins to feel like the "prodigal son" felt.




In my opinion, the answer to your first question here is "no."

You have already exposed the affair to all who have a "need to know." If the rest need to know, you will know it if they are maintaining a "friendship" with your husband while he is deliberately sinning against God and you. Give the "church discipline" steps a chance to work first. IF your husband remains incalicitrant, the circle of knowledge WILL expand as one of the latter steps in church discipline is to bring it before the church.

But please don't lose sight of two very important facts.

1. Keeping "those who know" to a minimum number helps make recovery easier, especially for the repentant Wayward Spouse.

2. MOST people, Christian or otherwise, don't know how to deal with adultery, much less with someone who committed adultery. It scares the "willies" out of them and many also don't have a good handle on what "forgiveness of sin" really means. "Condemnation" is easy, but remember the woman that was dragged before Jesus?

IF your hope and desire IS for a restored marriage with your husband, don't add, unnecessarily, additional "burdens" to overcome when you enter Recovery. Recovery is hard enough without the added problem of "others" being "uncomfortable" or presenting a "superior righteousness" in your interactions with them. In our case, we changed churches.

Your church, from the Doctrinal Statement, sounds like a very good, very solid, church. But don't forget that ALL of the people in the church, including the Pastor, are themselves sinners and NOT "perfect." If your husband repents and you both enter Recovery, having a solid church to attend will be VITAL to the recovery IN CHRIST of your marriage.




If you are like most of us, you have become an "insatiable reader," partly to try to understand what adultery is "all about," and partly because you have a "knowledge deficit" about "what should I do" and are looking for ideas that will "save your marriage."

Let recommend one more book for you that I found to be my number "two" book, behind the Bible. SAA (Surviving An Affair) was my number "three" book. Consider this, think of these books as your "top five," like in the top five Emotional Needs. It's not that there aren't MORE resources, it's just that you can be overwhelmed if you try to address EVERYTHING at one time. The book is called Torn Asunder, by Dave Carder. It is written from a Christian perspective.

When you are ready, or if you are curious, I will give you a link to an old thread of mine (Forgive? Trust? Really? What have we learned in the past year?) that also has a long list of the books that I found to be very helpful and very relevant to recovering from adultery.

klb, remember that while going through trials and tribulations, it is hard to "see" the reasons or to have anything but fear about the "unknown future."

God knows. Do what you can, but remain in His love and trusting Him that no matter what, YOU are "in His arms" and you WILL be given peace and comfort as you "lean not unto your own understanding," but find "rest in the Lord."

Now, if I can spend a minute on HOPE.

klb, assuming your husband truly became a "born again" believer, he IS saved. So salvation is not in question. Understand, I mean REALLY understand this: He has (as a born again believer) the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling him. There is nowhere he can run, nothing that he can hide, from God. When a believer "strays and gets lost," God does NOT abandon him, He goes looking for him. God doesn't have to look long to find him (considering the Holy Spirit KNOWS), but it MAY take a while to LEAD him back to the safety of fellowship and a restored relationship. God is all about "relationships," and that is why God created Eve FOR Adam and why God ordained Marriage as a Covenant relationship "in His image" of the relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The "bottom line" is that the affair WILL end. The only questions are "when" and will YOU still be in a position to forgive and rebuild a newer, better, marriage focused on Christ.

God bless.

McD's can be a "nice" distraction sometimes, especially when you have adult conversation along with the horrid hamburger.

I homeschool my children, too. I am planning my oldest's graduation party right now. My youngest is in 1st grade.




I understand about the exposure confusion. Your situation ahs a lot of similarities to mine. My FWS left our home, too.

After my 1st D-day, I only exposed to a few close friends (for prayer support) and to our parents, because I NEEDED their help.

At that time FWS, was saying that his affair was over.

After D-day #2, when I found out affair was not over, I told him to leave. He said he wanted a quick divorce and didn't love me anymore. (blah, blah, blah) So I began a more thorough exposure. Since he was leaving us, NOT exposing was more like protecting his lie and preventing him from facing natural consequences. Friends needed armed with the truth to be able to confront him in truth and love.

My FWS came home, then left again a month later. My exposure was then widened, and I was planning an even wider exposure, right before God broken him and brought a truly repentant man home.

The purpose of exposure is to bring the affair (sin) to the light of day. When light is shined onto the fantasy, its ugliness is revealed.

Wording is simple. My WS has left our family to pursue an adultrous affair. I am fighting for my family to be restored and believe that God can intervene. I ask for your support for my marriage. I also added "and help with my children" if it was someone who was involved in my children's lives.




I read:

Surviving an Affair (SAA)
Torn Usunder
Secrets Men Keep
Tough Love
and then went to the library and read even more

SAA was by far the book that helped me most in battling the affair and fighting to restore my family.

The other books were helpful, but SAA gave me a PLAN of ACTION to work toward my goal.




It is good to hear that they are doing their part. But please don't expect too much from the intervention.

There were close Christian men that confronted my FWS and spoke truth to him. But there were no immediate results. You need to be prepared emotionally for the likely possibility that this will have no effect on your WS.

Nonetheless, it is the RIGHT thing for the men of your church to do. Hopefully, if you WS eventually becomes repentant, they will be clear on what the right thing to do is then. My FWS has been welcomed back with open arms once the repentance was clear.






This is wonderful news...the Body of Christ living out the book of Acts.

Allow them to be blessed by blessing you. I am eager to help those IRL who are facing the same situation.






The pastor needs to own his part in not sheparding his flock. He did fall short. Hopefully, your situation will help him realize the IMPORTANCE of this aspect of his job.

But you WS OWNS the affair. HE made the choice. It isn't your fault, it isn't the pastor's fault. It's HIS fault.





You WS is blameshifting here. It's pretty basic WS behavior. The sure don't want to blame themselves.




These men are just avoiding conflict. They are finding excuses to NOT do what should have already been done.

Every day that passes, more damage is caused to you and your children. They need to rise up and take a stand against this horrid sin, all the while loving your husband enough to FIGHT FOR HIM.




Yes, it was.



Remember, a lot of the MB program is counter-intuitive. That means that what you NEED to do is often not what you THINK or FEEL you should do.

He is not going to contact you right now. He is a WS, with an attitude of entitlement and selfishness.

YOU need to be the one willing to FIGHT against he(( for your marriage and family.

Initiate contact with him. Tell him you would like to set up some time for him to COME OVER and visit the children. Ask him WHEN (not if), he could come for dinner.

Then, if he agrees, lets get a wonderful dinner and family evening planned out.

Can you do that? Can you make that call? That is the first step in Plan Aing.

I know FH has suggested you cannot Plan A while he is gone. I admit that his not living at him, makes Plan A more challenging, but NOT impossible. I did it. So did many others here.

The key is to set up situations to draw him back into the home as often as possible...without seeming clingy or needy youself. The fact that you have children makes that a little easier, if he will be responsible.

It MATTERS how you word things. "The children are eager to spend some time with you. You really matter to them. When can you come for dinner?" Then WAIT for his response.






No, I don't think he is testing you yet.

But if you can Plan A, then go COMPLETELY dark into Plan B, with a great Plan B letter, in about 4 weeks, he WILL test you.





That's OK. My FWS said the same thing about me during is affair. You WILL prove him wrong. My FWS knows now that I am NOT weak and NOT needy, and he KNOWS I can survive without him. He made me prove it, and I did. And so will you.

Don't worry about him thinking that right now. Just demonstrate your quiet strength in the way that you interact with him, take care of the home and the children, move foward with your life while still fighting for your family.

If he ever comes out of his wayward fog, he will see the strength you had. But he won't see it right now.




Use the dialog I said above. It is about the children needing him in their lives.

I will be deleting this info, FH, after you see it.

***info deleted****


I've given her a place to start with this on my latest post to her.

It's challenging, but can be done.

Good morning,

I actually can answer this one pretty easily, because where I don't give myself enough credit in much of my life, THIS ONE I am PROUD OF.

My husband walked out on us one year ago today. I plan A'd him for probably far too long, but I did an AMAZING Plan A. I learned from Mimi, to develop a PLAN that was MINE. I was making changes in me that I WANTED to, so they would be long lasting. I was HONEST with myself on who I had become and what I had done to destroy the M and began seeking G-d on how HE wanted those changes to happen.

I created EVERY opportunity I could to interject me into the picture, from sending emails, leaving phone messages, text messages, dropping by at work, bringing him stuff, setting up plans for us to meet, inviting him to children's events, calling him for advice. Mimi taught me to learn to figure out what his needs were and meet EVERYONE I could, WHENEVER I could for AS LONG AS I COULD.

I got NOTHING. He responded a few times and I knew that my plan was working, but remember this plan was about ME. Not about HIM.

So, I truly believe that if you seek G-d, stay very close to here for advice, you can work an amazing Plan A. It probably won't bring him home, but you will feel better for what you have done, will have some fun memories of the outrageous stuff you learn to create and pull off and in the end, you will feel empowered because you did EVERYTHING you could to save your M.

No, not the best of situations, but something is better than nothing.

Thank you so much for your encouragement and hope! I have been feeling like a doubleminded person, but NO MORE! I am claiming victory in Jesus. I am tired of feeling defeated and allowing Satan access to my home, and my life/mind, my children and my husband! He is still MY husband and I intend to move forward alone successfully with our children, but with the hope burning bright that you are correct and that the Holy Spirit is going to burden him so greatly that it will physically be unbearable the pain and pressure until he turns and reaches out for the love and forgiveness through Christ that he already possesses!
I will no longer live in Lack or in Faithless wavering either God and His word are true or they are not, but I have found them to be true in my life, so why would I stop now??? I renounce and bind Satan from my life in the powerful name of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.

WOW, all that to say thank you and yes, I have become an insatiable reader, but have not found a lot of encouraging resources for the dark times, you know like what to do now when he is living with the OW and cut off from us.
I am including his latest two e-mails to the children, I am not sure how to handle these, they are only 5 (boy) and 8 (girl), but they have each been struggling with not wanting to see him because he has physically changed his appearance so much and he is not truly sorry for his sin and actions and we have raised them to know that this is wrong and they have caught him recently in more lies, so how do I handle this for them, I don't believe that he is ready, but I cannot know that other than the way that he treats me as their mother.

E-mails to the children:
I miss you and love you buddy. I would really like to talk to you. Please write me back. I miss all of you very much. Tell sissy that you and her need to give W**** a kiss and a hug for me ok? I hope to hear from you all soon.

Love
Daddy

I love you sweetheart. I miss you and wish you would write me back. I want to come see you and talk to you. Please write me as soon as you can G****.

Love
Daddy

This is the first e-mail that they received since last Tuesday morning. He also told our daughter last week that he would call every night and he hasn't called since?? I am trying to explain as best as I can that he has chosen sin and Satan over the truth in a way that young children can understand, but I want him to see and be with his children and see that I am a beautiful good woman, but then I would be going back to plan A right??? Please any advice would be appreciated. My lawyer has advised no contact until the support hearing in July, he wants him to truly be alone in his sin and choices and realize that if he doesn't choose to change like he chose this life, then his actions will make this permanent.
Thanks.....

KLB,

You are so right. This is spiritual warfare that is out to destroy us. We have to find G-d and seek his help and guidance on how to walk through this.

My WH has destroyed his relationship with his 3 children who he was VERY CLOSE to. He emails one every so often, he has completely stopped talking to the middle one and his DD, well he barely talks to her. I have learned how to step up and be the spiritual one in the family, seeking G-d on how HE wants me to raise these kids and seeking out others in the community that G-d would like in my life to influence my children and learn those lessons that they need to learn.

Seek G-d for all instruction and the hardest part, waiting, listening and hearing the answer. I still struggle with this one, they pray for more help.

You are doing awesome, be proud of yourself.

When you invite him to dinner, do NOT whine, cry, or beg. Remember, you are a strong woman. Just ask politely.

If he accepts the invitation, say something like,

"I'm sure that you will be sensitive to our children's emotions right now and come alone. They are still processing your not living here, and will enjoy having your undivided attention. You really are important to them."

Hopefully, that will put to rest any thoughts of bringing OW, and you won't even have to directly address it. However, if he insists, make it clear that she will not be welcome in your home or even on your property.

That's some of the stick part of Plan A...your boundaries. Keep OW out of your children's lives for as long as possible. They deserve to be protected from the person who is ripping their family to shreds. Be firm on this if he pushes it.


And if by chance, he does not accept your offer, just non-chalantly say, "Well, that's up to you." or "You'll be missed." or "Maybe next week."

Okay, now I am confused. How did I go from how to answer an e-mail and deal with children who don't want to see their father to inviting him over for dinner????

You are doing a good job! Continue to reinforce what you are saying to your children.

Tell them that when their daddy was tempted, he allowed sin in instead of fleeing from it as we are told to do in the Bible. When we are tempted and do not flee, satan starts to work hard on us, and that is what he has done with daddy. Daddy has allowed sin to take over his life and now he is truly blinded by it and cannot see how much he is hurting you. Let's pray everyday for daddy. Let's pray that God will take off the blinders so that daddy can SEE. Because when he finally can see, he will be devastated by what he has done to our family, to me, and to each of you.

Daddy loves you as best he can right now. I know it doesn't feel like love to you because his actions are not loving. One day, when he is free from this sin, he will be so sorry.

I had many conversations like this with my children, not all at once; but short conversations that when put together, encompassed the above and more.

Now they are seeing the truth in all I said, and seeing that their prayers mattered. They, too, fought in the spiritual battle for their daddy's soul.

Well, I was posting at the same time as you. So I did not see your post about the emails until after I told you to invite him for dinner.

The invitation to dinner is Plan A. These are the kinds of things you do to invite him back into your lives so that you have the opportunity to demonstrate your willingness to meet his emotional needs (ENs), as Dr. H. describes.

I'll read your post about the email respond in a minute.

SunflowerSmile - though I don't know who you "were" in a previous 'member name life,' I think we are perhaps talking about two different things here, and basically in agreement though the terminology is different.

It is NOT that "Plan A" cannot be implemented. It is NEEDED in so far as there might be changes that klb needs to make within herself. I have no doubt that if there are, the Holy Spirit will bring them "front and center" to her awareness and ask her "what are you doing to do about these things that ARE within YOUR control?"

What I mean is that "Plan A" will have little, if any, effect on an active Wayward Spouse and the changes need to be made for two reasons, neither one of which are directed at ENDING the affair.

1. For her personal growth and conforming her life to Christ.

2. To make real changes that make her "attractive" to anyone, with the obvious intent that her husband will begin to see the "contrast" between his bimbo and her as the fog begins to part.

What I used (and I know it doesnt' exist as a 'formal' MB plan) is what I called a "modified Plan B." That kept contact in place so that I could talk to her about us, give her information (like some things I printed out from MB, some books, etc.) that I had and felt would help her in choosing to end her affair and attempt recovery, and it gave me a chance to interact with her so she could see my "behavior" and the reality of both my love for her and the changes I made that were "plan Aish".

But make no mistake about it, if she kept on running from God and refused to "give up" the affair, it would have moved to a "completely dark Plan B."

God bless.

klb - my "opinion" here.

You don't.

You don't "compromise" where your children are concerned.

What your husband is doing is deliberate and willful sin against God. The consequence is that he is NOT their "father" at this time. He is commanded by God to BE the spiritual leader in the home, leading as Christ's stand in.

No dinner until he repents and ends the affair.

The children WILL NOT be allowed to become "pawns" in the adult drama he has visited upon the family, nor does he "get to have his cake and eat it too."

LOSS of family IS a consequence that he is going to have to recognize is "part and parcel" of his fantasy.

God bless.

I understand. I felt the same about our children. We had TOGETHER taught them and protected them and made promises to them that mommy and daddy would be together and in love forever.

That was the absolute hardest part for me. When the visited daddy, they were exposed to music that just a year prior he would have condemned, TV shows (we had no TV for 8 years and no longer have it again--YEAH!), bad language from HIM, yelling, etc.

I knew in my heart that if this was the man he was going to be for years to come, they were better off without him. That helped me resolve in my heart to FIGHT LEGALLY when the time was right. I was preparing to fight for full custody and would refuse to co-parent, if at all possible. But I also knew that the first step in FIGHTING was a SOLID Plan A. And in your case, it should be SHORT but STELLAR!





OF COURSE, he's not ready. He is an alien wayward right now. You are in the MIDST of the battle, not the end. Prepare yourself for the battle. Equip yourself not only with Scripture and prayer, but also with knowledge about affairs and how to FIGHT them.

You see, you must fight in three arenas: the emotional battlefield (your own emotions), the physical front (your actions), and the spiritual realm (prayer and claiming of Scripture). You cannot neglect ANY of these areas.




Right now IS the time for Plan A.

You are handling your children great. You cannot prevent their pain and you are not responsible for their relationship with their daddy.

Be the best mommy you can be. Protect them from OW, and as soon as you go into Plan B, you will protect them as much as possible from the drama of the affair and from his emotional abuse.

But right now, because you are fighting to restore THEIR family, Plan A.


I see these emails as a great OPPORTUNITY to invite him to dinner.

It gives you a reason to extend the invitation without it being about you being weak.

"WS, I saw your emails to the children and AGREE with you that they need you to be in their lives. They are confused and struggling. I think it would be helpful for them to have some undivided (hinting at NO OW) attention with you. When can you come for dinner?"


See how that works. You open a door without being needy. Keep the dialog short and to the point....dinner with the kids, can you come? That's it.

Let's see how he responds.



Is your lawyer trained in how to end affairs and restore marriages or is he trained in how to help people divorce.

I'm not being mean here. Just realize that he is not trained in restoring marriages and Dr. H is. Follow Dr. H's plan for the best opportunity to recover your marriage.

[/quote]

Okay, so I get that we are all kinda getting on the same page here, but I think I still need a clue about a lot here.

So, here is the situation:
Daugher called WH last Tues morning spoke to him first time in a month or more. She told him that she hated his actions and lies and that until he could be a better father and made better decisions that she didn't want to see or talk to him. WH then spoke to me crying and saying he was so sorry for the way that he has treated me in blaming me and saying that I was filling the children's heads with wrong thinking. Good conversation, I reitterated that we all love him and are praying for him and that we still very much want for him to come home. I said I love you and he said that he would call to continue talking later that night. He called back that night when the children were in bed; however, when he called back she was home and he had gotten rebuilt in his resolve that he is in love with her and that I am the problem and he called and was verbally and emotionally abusive and then I got angry and called her a "home wrecking whore with no morals or self-esteem that she was willing to take a married man away from his pregnant wife and children" Obviously truth but wrong thing to say, so he got angry and hung up on me, so I called back and left a voicemail saying that I was extremely sorry for taking the bait and allowing him to make me angry. I said that I enjoy talking to him, but when he calls that she is there it is not appropriate because he only wants to pick a fight and remind himself what a bad person I was to make himself feel better about his wrong and sinful choices. I told him I needed some space to find some peace in this and get my feet back in under me from the shock of his betrayal. That was last Tuesday and the e-mails to the children are the first we have heard from him since.

Should I contact him and reinitiate communication, should I continue in silence until he reaches out to us. I want to have him start seeing me in a good way again that I am a beautiful woman, I have been doing weight watchers since Decemberish and have lost 47lbs to date, I have been reading and studying and taking better care of me and working on cleaning out/up our home. Taking good care of the children and they are doing great in their homeschool program. I love him and want to change and be able to meet his needs. I have been working on the questionaires from MB and trying to learn about myself and my needs, but I really don't know because he has withdrawn so much what his needs are, how do I figure/find this out?

Wow, lots of great advice being given here! I understand the need to go into Plan B very soon, but I also think it is important to do so when the WS has a good taste in his mouth about the marriage. If she goes DARK when there has been nothing but conflict, that is all he will remember; that will only bolster his affair justification. ["she was mean to me, therefore I am entitled"] To go dark while in a state of conflict is to "throw him into the arms of the OP."

Like FH said, it is really impossible to meet the needs of a WS, but you can leave a PLEASANT taste in his mouth along with the assurance that you would be willing to meet his needs if you reconciled. That is really the best you can do.

So, I would prepare to go into Plan B, but also find opportunities over the next 10 days to leave a good taste in his mouth. This will also cause him CONFUSION, because he needs you to react in ANGER and SPITE in order to continue his rationalizations.

Also, I do happen to know who SS is, and can vouch for her. She has been around quite a while and knows the ropes. She speaks from successful experience.

I will call him and let you know how the invite to dinner goes....
Thank you for the advice. I agree it opens a good opportunity and I want him to see how much I love and miss him, but how much we are working to move forward.

FH, are you saying that you do not agree with Dr. H suggesting a Plan A during an active affair, BEFORE Plan B?

kb, for the next 10 days, even if it kills you, avoid any and all fights with him. If he brings up his affair or the kids or grievances about you, then CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Even if it KILLS YOU. Tell him, "let's talk about something more pleasant" and change the subject. Look for opportunities to tell him about the things you miss that he used to do.

Better yet, ASK HIM if he could come and fix something around the house "because he is so good at that."

Whatever you do, don't fight with him. Don't engage in any serious talks. Using reason and truth on a person who uses no reason and is running from truth is an exercise in futility. So don't even try. It will get you nowhere.

NO FIGHTS, no accusations, no attacking his wh*re. Nothing. ok?

The word of the day is: PLEASANT

Ask yourself in every interaction, "do I look more or less appealing than the OW?"

If you were your H, who would you want to be around?

1. adoring OW who never says an unpleasant word

2. wife who calls me names and treats me like a bum

So, when you feel like lovebusting him, just remember who you are helping when you do that: THE OW!!! And this is not the help-the-ho program, but the help your marriage program! Got dat?

kb, what other exposure opportunities do you have? Have you exposed to the OW's parents? Who is this woman and what does she do? Have you ever spoken to her?

You are getting good advice. I think you also know that you need to seek God's will in this. I dealt with a WH for almost a year before I finally realized that he was wayward. I instinctively went into plan A as I dealt with his unkindness and indifference toward me and our marriage. I don't know how anyone can plan-A a WH without God's help and I sought it daily. Each and every morning I prayed the same prayer. I prayed to see my H as God sees him, to value him as God values him, to love him as God loves him and to be the best possible wife that I could possibly be. I prayed for God to take my anger and change my reaction to H's unkindness.

Even after I discovered the A, I was able to maintain that response. God loves our WHs just as much as He loves us. That doesn't mean that we should condone their sin or become a door mat but it does allow us to plan A.

My FWH chose me and our marriage as soon as I confronted him but if he had not, I would still have been a better person with a closer walk with God.

Say

just don't run him off with a bullwhip like Jesus did the moneychangers in the temple! That would be a huge lovebuster!

Well, I know that God's word is true beyond doubt, not that I really doubted him, but more I guess I was one of those who wanted to see proof. Now I just need to live totally in faith and trust and keep repelling Satan from our lives and marriage and home.
I just got off the phone with my WH. We had a great conversation. He admitted that there is NO honeymoon or fantasy love nest happening!!! YEAH!! Sorry, but small victories are wonderful!
I invited him over for dinner tomorrow night and he said that he would love to come over and see the children and I. He actually wants to see me!
I don't want to be a rebound or think that it is over or we are there or anything because I know that we are not. There is a lot of healing that has to happen and he still hasn't repented to God, and in order for the change to be lasting he has to give his whole life without any reservations to God! Please pray for me to continue to be strong and to protect my heart, but still be open and honest. Pray for WH to be receptive to the questionaire that I want to give him from the MB website. I want to be honest in ways that we have always struggled with, communication and intimacy in conversation has always been difficult because WH has been afraid and withdrawn due to the way he was raised, they taught him to never apologize for anything it is all a part of your sacred journey, but WH says that he doesn't ask for forgiveness because he doesn't believe that he deserves any.

Any additional advice about tomorrow? I know dress nice and do my hair and makeup nicely to present myself as a gift to him. What about planning activities for the children to do with him to make it easier or should I just see what happens?

Also he wants to talk about support/finances. He cannot pay his bills because he is paying me his entire paycheck to cover just the house and utilities and such, so how do I protect myself, yet do the right thing. Even though the credit cards are in his name alone, since PA is a 50/50 state I am still legally responsible for half until the time of divorce, so since I am the financially frugal spouse Should I ask for the Credit cards and statements and that he pay extra to me so that I can pay the cards down, or should I continue with the $500 voluntary support and put as much as possible into savings as I have been doing to protect the children and I????

SunflowerSmile - not at all. But I will say that in the "order of preference" regarding choices in behavior and responses, I would, and do, put God's Word ahead of any and all "other" advice.

For believers, the reality is 2 Timothy 2:11-16 and 2 Timothy 3:16.

Consider Nathan. He presented David's sin to David.

David recognized his sin with Bathsheba for what it was, as sin against God, and he immediately repented.

No "Plan A," just conviction, repentance, confession, forgiveness (by God), and consequences that were imposed and that attended him for the rest of his life. But he was not without blessing either. Solomon was born to David and Bathsheba.

Jesus' primary commands to all believers:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind."

"Love your neighbor as yourself."


What I am saying is very simple. "Plan A" is good with respect to changes that any person might need to make within themselves. "Plan A" does NOT end an affair. "Plan A" changes, meeting a spouse's needs, works for Recovery, not for ending an affair. Attempting to use meeting EN's while the spouse is NOT considering recovery, while they are adamantly involved in an affair, is futile.

Exposure, loving confrontation regarding sin and the need for repentance, etc. IS what destabilizes and ends affairs. THEN, and only then, will the WS begin to see and appreciate "plan A" changes and begin to be receptive to having their EN's met by their spouse. Meeting "some" EN's while the spouse is actively in an affair is merely enabling them, allowing them to "sit on the fence" and "cakewalk."

Precipitating a CRISIS is what is needed. No crisis, no need to CHOOSE. That is what I am saying.

God grants the Faithful Spouse the RIGHT to a divorce, not because God "likes" divorce (He hates all divorce), but because He loves the Faithful Spouse and will not have that spouse tied to someone who is choosing to walk AWAY from God. IF the spouse repents, then forgiveness is the command, and restoration is the possibility. Without repentance, neither is possible.


IF klb wants to have her husband over for dinner, I think she is asking for more trouble AT THIS TIME. He is wanting to "cakewalk" and have his mistress and his children, all the while pissing on his WIFE.

From Will Rogers:
There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

"Thanks, but no thanks." Love must be TOUGH sometimes.

Do you "love your neighbor" (spouse) by direct or indirect "acceptance" that obedience to God is "optional" as each person "sees fit" in order to do whatever they want to do?

Do you "love God" by being willfully disobedient and engaging in willful sin?

When he ends the affair, and BEFORE he might be allowed to move back home, THAT would be the time for a "dinner" when he will be truly repentant and able to face his children is humbleness as the servant God intends him to be. Until then, no appearance that the "ways of man" seem right and God can be ignored whenever we "feel like it."


God bless.

Since you are going ahead with the dinner, may I suggest you read through all the pages in the link in my sig. line?

You may find some stuff that is both applicable and helpful to you during this time.

God bless.

KL,


I am a FWH who saw a strong, beautiful and courageous woman(SMB) all because of God's hand and a good PlanA. I was also planA'ed from a distance, and it worked!

PlanA can and does work... My Recovering marriage is proof. And I have a Merciful God a SexyMamaBear and a MB'ers to thank for that.

Plan the plan and stick to that plan!

Good luck and may God Bless You.

Its probably a lie. He is not there because it is unpleasant, kb. I would STOP talking to him about this for NOW.



Good! Make sure the house looks wonderful and inviting and look your best. This will probably be his last time in your house so make it ATTRACTIVE. He needs to REMEMBER IT THAT WAY when you go dark.



ok, kb. He is only coming for dinner. That is ALL. Don't read anything into this that is not there. His affair is NOT OVER.

I think it is important to understand that you are nowhere NEAR ready for recovery. First, his affair has to end, and there is no indication he will end his affair.


Don't do that. That is for recovery. You will push him away if you try to educate him or push him into recovery tactics when he is nowhere near there.

kb, your focus should be on being PLEASANT and ATTRACTIVE, avoiding ALL relationship talk. That only brings about FIGHTS because it is a lovebuster to try and educate him when he is committed to his AFFAIR. you have to bring the horse to the water FIRST before he will drink. He is not even within view of the lake yet.

So, slow down. Let's be strategic here.


Does he enjoy being around the children? Plan this evening so that he has lots of PLEASANT TIME with you. If the kids annoy him, or get rowdy, then make arrangements to have some neighborhood kid come over and take them to the park.


Don't talk about it at all. You can't negotiate with a terrorist. Just tell him that all of that has to be worked out with the lawyers and you are sure sorry, but you have been told not to even discuss it. Then change the subject.

Is he handy around the house? Does he like to fix things?

Also, did you see my ?? about the OW? Who is she? Have you exposed to her parents?

kb, another thing I thought of is timing some more key exposures to occur just after you have gone dark in plan B. They will cause conflict in the affair and since you won't be around to yell at, they will only each other to lovebust.

Some key exposures would be to the OW parents, family members. It would also be helpful if your pastor contacted your H for his "discussion" after you go dark.

Is this a workplace affair?

Yes, I agree and thank you I need to slow down my heart and mind have been racing and I know that he has not ended the affair, but I disagree a little with the he's not there because it is unpleasant. I think that he is there because he feels he has no other place to really go, and that he wants it to be good, but not that it really is good.

As for the OW, I know her name, and yes it was a workplace affair from which my WH got fired and she retained her job in exchange for selling him out! Go figure he wants a woman who would sell him out to save her job. WOW! I don't know anything about her other than she is about 5'7" long curly auburn hair skinny and has tattoos. I know that she has a child don't know how old, but do know that doesn't reside with her or at least that is what I am told. I don't know where she is from or who her parents are, and I am going to guess that they aren't too local.

As for exposure, I really don't understand what I should tell people, I have told his parents, his aunt, my parents, our close church friends, and his childhood best friend and wife (who have become mutual close friends), but other than that I have not had contact with anyone, and I don't know what I should say or should have said other than he is having an adulterous affair and is no longer living at home, he has chosen to live with her. I haven't even talked to his brother or anyone else. Should I? What should I really be telling people?

FH thank you for the link, I need to spend some more time really reading there. I love motivational stories and quotes like that.

I want to have a plan, but I feel so confused and like I am bumbling around. When he and I talk during the day when he is away from her, he is sorry for the mess he has made, and talks with calmness, courtesy and respect, but then when he calls after he has been with her on anygiven day/time, then he is renewed in his sin and is so evil!

So I guess for the time being I need to just be "On my A game" showing him that I mean what I say to him on the phone that I love him and am committed to our marriage and family 100%. I need to get to work cleaning!! The children and I have been working on getting ready for a yard sale, so there are boxes and stuff out all over!! We need to clean out, the kids have just been junk collecting for the past three years as we have been just living day to day, and we decided that it was time to clean out, clean up and totally have a fresh start!!!

Thank you all....

oh ok, so if you asked him to end his affair and come home, he would do it? kb, I hate to say it, but I don't think you have a realistic view of his feelings for the OW. A person does not have an affair and lose his whole family because he has TEPID feelings for his affair partner. Otherwise, they would just end the affair and rid themselves of the associated problems. Your H is INFATUATED with her. You can ask him all you want, but he is not going to be honest about his feelings. That is like asking an falling down drunk how they feel about booze.



You should give them the facts and then ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE. When you do that, they tend to BUY IN and want to help you. It is helpful when they have a TALK with your WS.

klb, I know Melody might be sounding a little "harsh" to you, but listen to what she is saying. She is telling you the truth and you are still filtering these things through "wishful thinking lenses."

Your husband, no matter what he says, is coming to dinner for one reason and one reason only....to get a "fix" for something that is "bothering him," namely being totally selfish, neglectful, and self-centered....the opposite of being a father and husband.

His "physical presence" is NOT what you or the children need right now. What you all need is your husband and father, not the alien that lives within his skin. He may "look like" your husband, but underneath he is not. He may "sound like" your husband from time to time, but underneath he is not. You need to be "forewarned" so that you are not taken in by "fake remorse" of the "I'm sorry for all the pain I'm causing you but I've gotta do what I want to do" sort.

DO use this time to be pleasant, and in case anything should deteoriate, REMEMBER the word of God concerning righteous anger over sin and sinful behavior: "Be angry, BUT in your anger, DO NOT also sin." Don't return "evil for evil," be the "Proverbs 31" wife....you can bet the OW has NO CLUE what that means.....but you do. Live it.

DO NOT use THIS occasion to try to give your husband anything to "educate him." That comes later, after he has decided to end the affair and attempt recovery....because he really won't know "how to" do anything. We'll talk more about that when the time comes.

God bless.

As hard as that all is to hear I know that you are all right. I am still looking through those rose colored glasses. I know that he is still the ugly alien H. I just so want to show him that I am a beautiful, good, honest, hardworking, committed woman. I know that tomorrow will not be the end of the affair, although that would be wonderful. I am in touch with reality enough to know that.
So, that being said what do I talk about? He is a total stranger to me. Am I supposed to just make small talk, should I ask certain questions? What about the children, how should I prepare them for this they are both scared and apprehensive about seeing him and getting hurt yet again, they were finally sleeping through the night and no more crying and asking for him all the time. What should they be doing? Should he spend his time playing with them or should I have their babysitter come up and take them to the park? How long should this "visit/dinner" last?
Should I hug him when he goes? Should I have another adult here to mediate? That is what has been protocol on the other occasions that he and I have talked or the one time he visited the children.
HELP? I guess I am nervous and there seems to be a lot riding on this visit going well. I don't want to mess it up any further

kb, YOU know him the best, so you tell us what you could do to make his visit the MOST PLEASANT.

kb, lets discuss putting together a strategic plan. Here are my thoughts.

1. do a stellar Plan A for the next 10 days.

2. Go into Plan B on Saturday, May 24th, hopefully after a nice visit with the kids

3. Time key exposures 2 weeks later, ie: have pastor speak to him and expose to any remaining person

Tonight, I would bring up visitation schedules and tell him you want the kids to see him regularly. Ask him if he would like to pick up the kids for visitation on perhaps Wednesday nights and every other Saturday for a few hours. [make it clear the children cannot be exposed to his adulterous affair]

In fact, pull up a calendar on your computer right now and type in your suggested visitation days and times. That way you can print it up, hand to him and ask him if he agrees. Then you could make any changes together.

This way, the visitation thing will be out of the way and it will be one less thing that has to be discussed with an intermediary in Plan B.

ALSO: do not tell him you plan on doing this. This separation in Plan B should come as a complete surprise. He should never know the term, "plan B."

What do you think?

klb, there is nothing for YOU to "mess up." He has done that all by himself. Do not accept the premise behind any sort of "blameshifting." This may sound a bit harsh, but please understand the truth behind it: There is NOTHING so "bad" about a marriage that "justifies" adultery. Period. This is all due to HIS choices, especially his choice to tell God to "shove it, he's going to do what he wants to do regardless of what Jesus endured for him."

What do you tell the kids? Just that their father will be coming to dinner. Do NOT tell them to "fake it," just tell them to offer him their love and their wish that he loved them more.

Let your comfort come from knowing that there is truth in "out of the mouths of babes."

Be prepared that they will likely be "upset" and you will have to deal with behavioral problems after he leaves. Love them, comfort them, tell them about Jesus' love for them and that Jesus will NEVER leave them. Them to pray for Daddy, that he will listen to Jesus.

Then prepare yourself for not allowing his selfishness to further hurt the children or yourself if he remains unrepentant.

If he should feel conviction and repentance, tell him that there are MANY believers who have been through this nightmare who stand ready to help him through it just as others helped them through similar recovery efforts.

If he'd like that help, THEN, and only then, can you offer him some "Stuff."

God bless.

kb, this should be the ONLY TIME his affair ever comes up tonight, ok? You don't want to get dragged into affair talk, because that will take VALUABLE FOCUS away from your wonderful family and pleasant atmosphere. Do you understand? Only focus on GOOD THINGS ABOUT YOU.

Don't ask him about his feelings about her, for example. Don't let that come up. Because it needs to BE ALL ABOUT YOU! NOT HER! Got dat?

Can you bring up the issue of him not bringing your kids around the wh*re without it being unpleasant? If you don't think you can, then don't even bring this up tonight. Let your attorney work out visitation himself.

Okay, well I just got back from church, and I had an opportunity to talk to my pastor. He asked for the website to be able to check out the plans, because I briefly discussed with him Plan A and how I want to let him see how much he is loved and wanted, but that he has to change and want it to happen and also repent and return his life to the Lord. I still believe that this can happen, I believe in miracles and I believe that my husband and I once had something really special, but I do realize that he is not currently that person. I still want to believe and have love, I really don't want to get hard like so many of my family is. I know what my WH is and has done is disgusting and horrible, and he is responsible for his sin and actions.
However, I have learned alot from the questionaires about my failings and my shortcomings in loving my H the way that he needed, I became complacent and self-centered in my sickness and pain. I am trying hard to grow and change emotionally and spiritually. I want to be a new, confident, Godly woman, I believe that I am now I just have to continue changing and living in the changes that I have made. The one area that I fear that I have a lot of growing and forgiving to address is, if he does not truly change and is in the area of our children. I am still protecting and not comfortable at all with the visitation subject. WH has been too eager to introduce OW to the children, and I don't trust that he won't do that if he takes the children without supervision, and the children are afraid of him because of all the lies he has told them and confessed to and also the fact that he has such a temper and inablility to connect emotionally with them. I know that he can change if he will allow the Holy Spirit's leading. I just pray that the Holy Spirit will continue to burden him and that the scales will fall from his eyes and that he will be able to see. That is my prayer. I pray that tomorrow when he comes he that he will have his eyes open and truly be able to see me and the children and the love and goodness in us.

Ask your pastor to ask questions if he has a hard time with any of this stuff. Dr Harley has stated that he himself is a Christian and I can make a very good case for Plan A and even Plan B being extremely biblical in their basis. In fact, Plan A and B are how God deals with us to show us His love and to make us fall in love with Him all over again.

Mark

kb, his eyes won't be open tomorrow night, he has scales on his eyes. He is totally immersed right now in his own sin. So, please lets stay focused on HOW THINGS ARE rather than how we WISH THEY COULD BE and plan accordingly. If we deal in wishes, instead of reality, it impairs your ability to fight this affair.


Then by ALL MEANS you should not even broach the visitation subject. Let your lawyer work this all out in a way that protects the children.

Can you tell me what state you are in? The laws are different in each state.

I don't post often, but please please please follow MelodyLane's advice. I was not in an affair situation, but my husband left and ML gave me very similar advice. It worked wonders. He didn't fear coming around, because I was pleasant, he knew he wasn't going to get LB'd or DJ'd and it got to the point where he wanted to come home. Memorize the highlighted portion, seriously. I pray your dinner goes well.

Too much information to say PLEASE do the above.

We are in Pennsylvania.

I second the advice about listening to Mel. She walked me through Plan A, and helped me prepare for Plan B, and has helped us in recovery. She was here DAILY for me. She will not lead you astray, although at times, you may wonder.

Mark, I would absolutely LOVE to hear your Scriptural references for Plan A and B. I have my own, but would love to learn more from yours. I have read many of your discussions with Queenie; and I respect you.

Thank you for the encouragement. I have been working on some questions, getting to know you type and just small talk, a little deeper.
He has said that we don't talk and share and communicate anymore, so I thought that we could just sit on the porch swing and talk after the kids are in bed for a little quality time.

Some things that I thought of were:
*How is work? What jobs have you been doing lately? Is it going better for you, are you adjusting better to being back in installations?
*Where do you see yourself in 5 years?
*You've mentioned that you cannot forgive yourself, I was just wondering what forgiveness looks like and means to you?

I really stink at this, I think because I don't know who he is because he has become this "ugly alien" inhabiting my once kind, compassionate, loving husband,so any suggestions on other things that are "safe" to talk about.

I have been praying about it and I know that you are all right about the fantasy and living and planning in reality, but it is very hard, not that I am trying to use that as a crutch or copout, because I am committed to doing my best at working the plan. I just really want the evening to be pleasant and him to enjoy the evening and relax, not be so defensive, and enjoy being with his children and I, but truly I am nervous, I want to protect my heart, but yet be tender and kind and show him that I am committed to our marriage. Sometimes a fast forward button for life could be a nice feature!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, SS!


This is a good subject. I would ask OPEN ENDED questions, though, to get him talking. If you say "how is work" he will just reply "fine" and that is the end of your conversation. Instead ask him an open ended question that will get him talking:

"so what is going on at work lately?"



doesn't sound sincere and could get you into trouble if he responds with something hurtful. Don't go there.


don't even go there. His comment was FOG TALK and you bring this up, you will get more FOG.

What TV shows does he like? What about you? If he likes TV, then bring up some recent TV episodes or bring up a good movie you liked that he likes.

kb, what is he GOOD AT? Is he good at fixing things? Look for opportunities to ask his advice about a home repair, if so.

Yes, he is very handy and good at fixing things, but he has expressed that that is all I ever asked was for him to do something around the house, and he never got an opportunity to just relax and play. So, I was afraid to ask him to work on or fix something. What do you think?

Talk about what the kids have been up to.

Bring up a really good "remember when" memory you share.

One of my best Plan A moments was when I invited FWS over and we played badmitten with the kids. Our family always has a great time playing together. I flirted quite a bit during that game. BUT my body was shaking inside. I had lost so much weight and was so weak. But I pulled it off.

It's all a matter of your mental frame of mind. STAY FOCUSED on your plan, no matter what he says.

If he spews hurtful fog speak, stay focused on your goal to not feed into that. It's OK to just look at him and not respond. It's OK to just smile. It's OK to just touch his arm and nod.

If he spews "I want to come home" babble...remember that's what it is right now...babble with no action. STAY FOCUSED on your plan and REMEMBER YOU ARE TALKING TO AN ALIEN.

I remember my FWS one day saying he wanted to come home. I could FEEL my husband back. But a few days later I asked him what coming home looked like for him. His response was cold and the alien was obviously back.

You may get glimpses of your husband every now and then, but EXPECT them to be fleeting; EXPECT the alien to reappear...and stay focused on your Plan A...making home feel like a welcoming place to be and allowing him to see improvements you are making in yourself. (keeping the house in order, preparing nice meals, keeping the kids school on track, making sure you look attractive, handling the finances (I don't mean earn the income; I mean proving that you can take care of paying the bills on time--as long as he is providing the income he should be providing), making a joyful home for you and the children, flirting without behaving desperate, etc.

Just keep the talk on light things that have nothing to do with your relationship, his spiritual walk, or anything that might lead to you triggering or love busting (are you familiar with love busters?)

I think you are understanding Plan A.

If he was complaining about your expectation to work around the house, then make these times about relaxing and playing.

Are there any games you two used to play together.

My FWS and I used to play backgammon all the time when we dated. That would have been a good Plan A thing, but I didn't think of it then.

Are there any games the two of you enjoy that you could pull out after the kids are tucked in (if he stays that long)?

I am hoping that the weather will hold out and it will stay nice, it is supposed to rain all afternoon/night. The kids love to play outside and that would be best. If we are inside then they are going to want to veg and watch tv or play video games, and that excludes some then.

We haven't dated in so long I know this is going to sound silly, but what constitutes flirting? I don't know what the rules/boundaries are?

My FWH had a an EN for admiration that I had unintentionially neglected for a long time. Be sure that you are genuine but try to find something to admire about him. (Often hard when he has been such a jerk) I will never forget the first time after D-day that I told my FWH that he still had the bluest eyes and longest lashes i have ever seen. The sheer gratitude on his face brought tears to my eyes. I have followed up many times since then with "I do love your eyes!" You can bet that is the type of thing that OW is saying.

Think back to what first attracted you to him and tell him if you get the opportunity. Do some "Remember when we..." Lay out some pictures of happier times. Don't bring them up your self but if he comments, tell him you are trying gto organize them or scrapbook or whatever. You won his heart once. Inside, you are the same girl he fell in love with. Show him that.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Say

SunflowerSmile,

I'd be happy to discuss why I think MB is biblically based, but we should probably do so on another thread.

/tj

Mark

I so hope you do that, Mark, I would love to see your analysis. And I will even tell you what Dr. Harley told me about that.

Well, the visit tonight was WONDERFUL! The children were well behaved and enjoyed playing a board game and the weather held, so we all were out playing in the driveway on scooters. WH didn't raise his voice at all, he had an extremely hard time leaving tonight and even said that he wanted to stay, but knows that is not possible.
I would give myself a C on the Plan A. WH left in tears holding my hand and pulled reluctantly away, but we had one rocky moment, he wanted to discuss bills and see if there was any way I could pay some of his credit cards out of my support money, since he is paying me his entire paycheck currently. He said he has applied for a second job, but is having a hard time finding one that will work around his full time schedule. Things with the OW are unstable also, she was fired finally from the place that they both worked, so there is no income coming in there, adn she is getting frustrated that all of his income is coming to me. Well, he is MY H!!!
He is planning on coming to our daughter's brownie award banquet on Sunday, so we will have another opportunity then. He said that he had a really nice time tonight. He was very fixated on repeating that he is an A****** and that he is not worth anything, and that he cannot understand why I would want any contact with him or attempt at reconciliation. I just kept reassuring him that I am 100% committed to our marriage and that he is very worth it and told him some of his positive qualities that I love/admire about him.
Well, I am exhausted, so I am going to get some sleep. He asked me to call him tomorrow and touch base and let him know how the children are doing. Speaking of I am so proud of them! They did fabulously, daughter struggled, but calmly came to me and prayed it through instead of self hurting behaviors of scratching and hurting herself!!! YEAH, progress is great. I am so thankful for my kids and God's protection of us!
So what next?

klb - I'm very glad to hear that things went well with the visit.

A couple of "things" for you to think about and decide if they might have application to your husband:



Of course it's "impossible" while he remains willingly in an affair. He's "feeling" the "cost" of his choices, and that is precisely what both you and God WANT him to feel. It helps to break the "fantasy" of sin, that disobedience to God DOES have consequences.

However, that's for YOU to know at this time.

But when he makes such a statement, why not just calmly ask him WHY he "knows that is not possible." What makes him think that it's not possible, can people and circumstances NOT change, can God NOT "create a new heart within someone?"




This is a "glimpse" inside the mind of a WS. He is very likely beginning to "accept" that his infidelity is WRONG but is feeling trapped and guilty. He is likely "projecting" HIS OWN feelings of what HE would be unlikely to do if YOU were the one having an affair. That's more of the same that we've all heard or said ourselves, i.e. "if you ever cheat on me I'm outta here!"

I said it, my wife said it....but when the ACTUALITY of an affair presented itself, then the BS has to CHOOSE. The affair itself is a "crisis," and is no less a "crisis of faith" than it is as a "crisis of the Marriage and the Vows" that each of you took individually. YOU have chose to honor your vows and your walk with God, even though faced with the extreme of "for worse" and "in sickness"(of mind).

So when he says this sort of thing, consider explaining two things to him:

1. You BELIEVE and MEANT your Wedding Vows to him, "until death do you part," not until some self-centered tramp tries to break your covenant with God, and

2. Forgiveness and restoration comes FROM God because: "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." God didn't wait for us to "save ourselves," He GAVE us forgiveness and restoration of relationship THROUGH Jesus, and Jesus laid down (no one took it from Him) His human life FOR us while we were "not worthy and hopelessly lost in sin."

Given that, shall we do less for a repentant sinner who "comes home?"

It's NOT that adultery doesn't hurt, it DOES. It hurts more than almost anything you can experience. Jesus suffered too.

It's NOT that there are no consequences for sin, forgiveness of the sin does not "magically erase all consequences." But Jesus paid the "ultimate price" for all sin FOR us, so that we don't "have to," and HE gave us FORGIVENESS of Sin in the only way that IS acceptable to God.

Just as Peter took his eyes off of Jesus and began to sink into the "world's water," so has your husband taken his eyes off of Jesus and is sinking into the quicksand of adultery. But there IS "one way out." Just as there was one way out for Peter. Jesus reaches down and takes our hand....but we have to choose to not fight Him, to accept the offered hand....and let Him lead us back to the safety of the "family of God boat."

Give your children a warm and tender hug. You don't have to say anything to them. Thank God for using ALL of the circumstances in your life to "work for good for those who love Him."


"was very fixated on repeating that he is an A******

Yep, he is. Now what was it that Jesus said to the woman who was brought before Him on a charge of adultery? Oh ya, "Woman, where are your accusers(those who thought that they had a 'more righteous' standing with God until Jesus mentioned ONE sin in their own life was enough to condemn them before God)" She WAS an adulteress standing before the mercy of God. "Neither do I condemn you, go and LEAVE your life of sin."

For the BS's, we also need to remind ourselves of the parable of the Unmerciful Servant, as we are all forgiven servants of the only true Lord and Master.


God bless.

That first experience of plan Aing a WH who has betrayed his vows and your trust is a perfect example of how Christ loves us and how he wants us to love other people. It is easy to show love to a loving spouse. That in a nutshell to me is how MB is Biblically based.

Good job,
Say

Thank you ForeverHers and SayNoMore,
Your response FH was exactly where he led the conversation and I said a lot of what you said in your post. I cried a little when he began to cry, but I just kept saying that he is so worth it, and we are worth it. I reiterated that I am wholly committed to him and our marriage.
When he said this I did ask why he thinks this and he said that it was because he was such an A***** and that he is not worthy of forgiveness, and he can't change what he has done. I explained that no one expects him to change what he has done, but it is what he does now moving forward that makes the difference. He said that right now he doesn't know what to think of God, because he has been praying and God hasn't been answering, or he has been bringing more problems into his life, financial, physical, emotional. I then explained to him that God wants very much to have a relationship with him, but if he does not go to God and confess that he knows what he did/is doing is sin and that he is truly sorry for it and wants to do the right thing, but doesn't know what it is? That he is tying God's hands. He cannot help you because you are continuing to sin and not repent.
He asked me to call today. Should I do that and just thank him for a great evening and say that we are looking forward to seeing him on Sunday? How often should I reach out to him? Should I e-mail him as I am thinking of him and just continue to reaffirm and reassure him of my love and committment? I also think that Plan A with him now is going to require a little longer than the originally planned 10 days. I was thinking more along the lines of till maybe June 1st and then we would be Plan B completely dark for almost 6 weeks till our support hearing on July 18th. I am thinking as he is finally beginning to look at me again and feel anything, I just don't know what do you all think? I guess I am afraid that if I go to Plan B too quickly now that it will push him further away and not see it as loving him, but a rejection again?

Yes, definitely call. And do both. The "lines of communication" are open as a result of your evening with him.

Don't "slam the door" on him while he is "open," even though you may well be feeling pain and hurt. Think of it as you would with anyone who is sinning and in need of GOD's forgiveness. Without God's forgiveness the forgiveness that any of us gives someone does not get at the "root" of the problem, rebellion against God.




As often as you'd like without giving him a "normal wayward spouse feeling" of "being smothered." It's not easy, especially when you see some response(s) that you've been praying and hoping for. Fight the urge to "barge in" with the "full load." No "elephant" is eaten at one meal...it is accomplished "one bite at a time, for as long as it takes." Remember the key thought here is: in God's timing, not ours.




Yes, if you want to. But keep it short and not gushy, pushy, or begging, if you know what I mean.




Stay in Plan A as long as you are seeing some response. It's a PROCESS, klb, it does not happen "overnight."




You will KNOW if, and when, a Plan B is needed. Until then, stay with Plan A. Do NOT "plan" to use Plan B as a way to "manipulate" him. Plan B IS an "ultimatum" as well as a way to preserve your love for him while a wayward spouse is showing no remorse or willingness to "consider things."




Plan B WILL end in either an end to the affair or in a divorce.

It IS an ultimatum that says, "You've crossed MY boundaries and I won't allow it to go without a consequence. WHAT that consequence will be is now up to you and I will react accordingly."

Ultimatus are VERY dangerous and only should be given when YOU are ready for NOT getting the response you might be hoping for.


You did a very good job of "loving him with the truth." Now that the "seed" has been planted, God will water it and make it grow. I just planted some grass seed in my backyard....and waiting for the seed to begin to sprout and grow SEEMS agonizingly slow. Do what you can, but rest in God and know that He knows what is needed and when it is needed.

God bless.

Thank you! I think I am beginning to finally understand.
[quoteYou did a very good job of "loving him with the truth." Now that the "seed" has been planted, God will water it and make it grow. I just planted some grass seed in my backyard....and waiting for the seed to begin to sprout and grow SEEMS agonizingly slow. Do what you can, but rest in God and know that He knows what is needed and when it is needed.
] [/quote]
Patience has never been a strong virtue of mine, but I can see now that I will definitely be better/stronger in this area.
I have been trying to figure out what my love busters are and learn how to NOT use these and just be more kind and considerate of the things that best show love to my WH.
Thank you!

It sounds like you handled yourself very well. Good job!




Since you are in Plan A, contact him often. If he asks you to call, call. Email and text him often...lighthearted conversations. Ask how his day is going. Tell him something you remember about him...admiration is often a high need for men. So ADMIRE him...

Short, sweet conversations are really good.

Try to avoid relationship talk, unless he brings it up, and still then, walk the conversation carefully.





Hopefully, he will continue to be receptive to Plan A. But don't be surprised if he all of a sudden becomes a complete a$$ again and you feel 10 days is too long.

See how this weekend goes and post here about it.

Also, he is still cake-eating. He is likely to enjoy you filling some ENs and OW filling some ENs. That's just part of the stage you are at right now. Work your plan, and be prepared for the fog speak at any given moment.

Also, start thinking about who could be your intermediary during Plan B. This is someone who will filter information so that you have NO contact with WS. Hopefully, this person would be willing to come here and learn more about Plan B. Any ideas?

Well, the phone call was a disaster! I called to thank him for a great time last night and did that and said that I was looking forward to seeing him again on Sunday at our daughter's brownie award banquet. Then it all went downhill! He started trash talking again and instead of changing the subject I slid the whole way down the hill, and self blamed and cried, saying you know the usual, that if I had been a better wife, prettier, more loving blah blah blah..... Way to go dummy! I just get so tired of hearing all his self blather that I get down on myself and turn it around because I am still struggling with me! Everytime I look in the mirror Satan attacks and says see you ugly fat pig, what did you expect him to do! I have been trying to work on my self talk, but I am so stinking EXHAUSTED!!! I have not had a real break of any kind from my kids in 3 months! My parents are afraid to take them, because they are getting older and my kids are a handful at least the boys are...
My voluntary support has gone down and is erratic when it gets deposited, and I am so afraid of not having enough to pay the bills that I feel bad for the kids because our life has changed so dramatically. We used to take them to Philadelphia at least once a month to go to the museums or the mall or something, or we would go out to eat every Friday night, we would take them to community events for kite-flying and different things, and now that he is gone and we don't have a car yet. All those things have stopped, and I am trying to enjoy them and play games and have fun with them, but I am so tired and sad. I miss my best friend and companion!!! I am so angry at this despicable alien thing that has invaded my husband and our life.
He keeps saying that I think it is so good for him over there and I just don't know or understand, well, no I don't know or understand and quite frankly I really don't care, I hope they are sufferring in EVERY imaginable way!!! He has no idea what his wife and three small children are sufferring and he is so darn selfish that he can't see anything but what he wants and I get so sick of hearing about it!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Okay, I feel better now that I spewed all that out. I want to e-mail and say something to change the way the phone call went, but I don't feel that I should keep apologizing for hurting and feeling sad. I love him and I believe that he is worth it and that the pain will all be worth it because it is the refiner's fire and my hearts desire is to be made holy. Just as the song says, I just need to figure out how to get out of the sadness and into the joy and hope of the results. Such a hard thing in the midst of such pain, but it is the hope that I am clinging to is that when I get to the other side of this dark valley that the me on the other side will be whole and happy and have good self-worth and love and respect for me and be able to look in the mirror and believe what the Psalmist says that I was knit in my mothers womb and he knew and loved me then and that he made me perfectly for his purpose and that he will never leave or forsake me..... Sometimes I wish I could tattoo some of these things on me so that I will see them always, but 1) I don't like needles and 2) I know God doesn't want me to mark my body so post its and index cards have become my best friends..... I must run for now, my parents are coming for dinner, so I must finish up.... Love and prayers and thanks to you all for your kindness and wisdom....

Hey, KF, my first post to you. Ya know there's not a single BS on this site who hasn't played the "what if" game. His A has nothing to do with your looks, weight, lack of loving him...on and on.... it is a character flaw within him and him alone.
And you know that God made you and He loves you. It's just that sometimes we all need to be pruned so that we can grow and flower to our fullest extent. We are all subject to the temptations of satan, and your WH fell for it. You, however have the peace of God in your favor. He will guide you, he led you here did He not? No more of you trashing God's children!!
You see, when you self doubt yourself, and demean yourself to others, that is what you have done. Next time he starts to trash talk, tell him you are sorry he feels that way, you're sorry he's having a bad day. Please don't feed his justifications for his A. He's just gonna make a note of it for further use. Admit your part in the conditions that led up to his A. You had the same conditions...WH had an A and you didn't, see what I'm saying? Check out Orchid's Reverse Babble thread.

Decades ago, I got a divorce due to a philandering WH. I was so young and I prayed and prayed that my WH would change his ways and be the H that I wanted and needed for me and my infant. He became abusive and raped me after the D. All I can say is Thank God for unanswered prayers.

Stand up for yourself and never grovel to him again. In the end your WH has to stand up and answer for what he did, and you know when he starts blaming you, he is sooo on his way to the "smoking" section!! Be strong for you and your kids.

You are are precious in His sight, and you are precious to your parents and kids. Show them the strength of a strong mother. You will be just fine, strength begets respect. GF

You're doing great.

Typical wayward behavior. Been one, done that. Don't beat yourself up. This will get easier.

OK, so the call didn't go so well. It's over with. So let's get focused back on to Plan A.

Plan A can be tough, especially when the start that fog babble. Hang in there and put on your armor.

Remember, I warned you that the alien would probably be back. EXPECT it, then it won't rattle you so much.

You are doing fine.

Will he be at your daughter's banquet? And will he be without OW? If you suspect OW will be there, I would make it clear to him that she is not welcome at your children's events.

Otherwise, it's back to Plan A. Think ahead and have some ways to Plan A that evening. Maybe invite him over for dessert afterward... or to tuck the kids in bed.

Vent here. Fall apart here.

But DO NOT let him see you cry again. You can cry with us. We've all been there and know your pain.






YOU are NOT the cause of this affair.

Your WS made every choice along the way to get where he is.

Your WS had an affair because he didn't have the appropriate boundaries in place to protect your marriage. And he allowed selfishness and entitlement to become his way of thinking.



Is there a local teen from church or somewhere that you could hire to come once a week and give you a break? I know that it will cost you, but it might be one of those things that's worth it. You could go grocery shopping alone and run other errands.

GF is right!

We all feel as if we did something wrong to make our spouses cheat and maybe if we weighed less, or worked out more, or wore more makeup, etc..etc..he/she would never have cheated but it is NOT YOU! Your spouse made the conscious decision for whatever reason be it alien influence or something else, to commit adultery and you weren't even a consideration at the time. It was your spouse's choice to do this on his own.

How can I answer so adamantly, you ask???
I have lost 40 pounds since Dec. and now weigh 125, I cut my hip length hair to shoulder length and had it permed, I bought all new lacy lingerie, I stopped doing my hobbies and cut way back at work so H could have more of my time. I did all this and H still says he's confused over who he wants to be with. Me or OW??
I like the changes but he never even noticed. It proved to me that no matter what I might have done it would not make a single difference. I am not to blame and neither are you so hold your head high and when you walk by the mirror smile and think to yourself: "I am one h$ll of a great person and I know it!!"

Thank you so much Going_Forward!!! I so needed to hear that. Sometimes in the midst of all this chaos and hurt it is hard to stay grounded and focused on who I am in God and you are right he did make me, and I am proud of that. I just get lost in the verbal vomit and spew at times that my WH speaks. I realize that to make himself feel better that he must bring me down to the pits, it is the only way to elevate himself!
I have always been the stable, steady, self-sacrificing spouse and not that those things are bad, but I have always been slightly co-dependent, because he was the more dominant, and in doing so I have allowed myself to slip into bad habits of self trashing and low self worth.

So, thank you for the reminder I may need it again soon! WH is coming over tomorrow for another visit!!!

How did this new visit come about, Kib?

Say

My daughter initiated it and he also asked when he could visit us again.

Hearts_ache
Thank you for your sharing you are similar only smaller than me.

I weighed 205 at Christmas time and am currently at 155 gone from an 18/20 to a 10. I too changed my hair and my activities, but in my case I increased the activities that I participated in alone, because my WH thought I was too clingy and needy, which in retrospect I kinda was. Although there were reasons, duh, he was never home and when he was I wanted to be with him!!! But, I have realized that I need to fulfill myself too and not look to him for all of it as a family, but self fulfillment is good too, but now that we are alone and I am with the kids 24/7 and no car yet, it is difficult to get my self needs met, so I do it at night when they are in bed, or at least I try.
I too like the changes that I have made in me, but I am so lonely, he was my best friend and companion for so long that I feel like someone is trying to rip apart a tapestry. I know in my heart that I am a wonderful wife, mother and friend, but when I get in my humanness, I begin to see the negatives too and they begin to swallow me. I go to God, but I must be either taking it back or harboring a piece of it, because I don't yet feel the peace that passeth all understanding. I just am so darn lonely for adult companionship and empty from not getting my ENS met in so long!

The peace will come in the Lord's time. It is not our time. I know that I felt abandoned because everything took so long.

Take good care of yourself, and do whatever you can to raise your self-esteem. I got busy cleaning and organizing, started a garden, painted, exercise, and did things to feel better.

Chances are excellent that he will be back.

Thanks Believer
What do I do on the days like today that seem to drag on mercilessly and I have no where to go and I just can't seem to push on and find joy?

klb - here's a copy from an old posting that might be helpful to your current question. See what you think.


The Silent Years
=================

There are times when God will speak to you and then be silent for an extended period of time. Silence does not mean you have been forsaken by God. It simply means that God has spoken, and now is the time to allow the word that He spoke to germinate and come to pass.

Silence is not the same as peace. Silence is the absence of noise, but peace is the presence of God! While you are going through "silent years," you should focus on inner peace.

Inner peace produces outward confidence in the face of negative circumstances so that we can go forward in the assurance that even though tribulation is coming against us, we are more
than conquerors over it!

The Greek word for peace actually describes a spiritual equilibrium no matter whatever may seek to upset us. The biblical meaning of peace never denotes the absence of trouble.
Peace is not the absence of negatives but the presence of positives. God's peace is inward and spiritual and never predicated by contrary circumstances or negative events.

Poverty, sickness, death nor debt can override internal peace!

Silent years should indicate a time of reflection, introspection and listening. The quieter we become, the more we hear.
However, we cannot rush the silent years.

Silent years are times of transition. Transition is always uncomfortable and appears to last forever. We must ENDURE the silent years! Whenever you see the word endure, it means that
there is no short cut through it. It must be endured.
You cannot circumvent what must be endured.

We are told to ENDURE unto the end. (Matt. 24:13)
We are told to ENDURE persecution and tribulation. (II Th. 1:4-10)
We are told to ENDURE hardness. (II Tim. 2:1-3)
We are told to ENDURE affliction. (II Tim. 4:5)
We are told to ENDURE chastening. (Heb. 12:7)

The key to being able to ENDURE is to see the END (ENDure).

Now, here are some things for you to question during the silent years:

Is my life really submitted to God?
Am I submitted at home, work, church and to the government?
Have I learned my lesson?
What is God trying to teach me?
Am I humble enough to be teachable?
Has the fruit of patience been sufficiently developed in me?
Do I still have an appetite for the world in me?
Did I properly respond to the last thing God told me to do?
Have I attained a deeper faith?
Is my attitude right toward God and others?
Am I harboring unforgiveness?
What am I becoming?
Have I sufficiently developed and matured as a person?
Have I taken the time to minister to the Lord? (Acts 13:2)

During your silent years you should:

1. Practice and develop your gifts. Study.
2. Clarify. Define goals. Reorder priorities.
3. Serve (even while you are hurting).
4. Trust God.
5. Pray

Your silent years should change your life! You should come out as a new person! When you come out, you should have a new level of:

1. Knowledge
2. Responsibility
3. Authority/Power
4. Faith
5. Trust

Remember, problems never come to last, they only come to pass!

by Dr. Dale C. Bronner

I actually just got done reading this as your thread posted. I loved it, and I am trying to work on the questions I copied it to a word document.
Thank you so much for your encouragement. I just cannot seem to shake the blues today it is dark and dreary and supposed to rain and the kids are feeling blah today too, Visit with WH was good, but I think we are all emotionally drained and we are seeing him again tomorrow. I am looking forward to it to try again to let him see good in me, but I just get so tired afterwards, he lingers longer each time, and I get drained from trying so hard. I hope that it gets easier! His self esteem is so low and it is hard to see the man I love so much hurting so badly from something that seems so easily fixed (I mean the going and dealing with God portion), but I know that from his side that is the hardest thing he has to do.

Nice post, ForeverHers..............

klb - STOP THAT! Stop making excuses for him or trying to shield him from the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

God CRUSHES "flawed pots" to remove the flaws PERMANENTLY from the clay, AND THEN God refashions a NEW pot that will be worthy of His service.

Yes, I know it causes you pain because you still love your husband and you are probably a very nice woman too who doesn't like to see anyone hurting. But did you ever take you children for SHOTS?!? It HURT them, but it WAS for their greater good in the long run. The PAIN is temporary. It WILL get better, but until your husband repents (and he has not done that yet) God WILL continue to "turn up the volume."

You need to "get out of God's way" and understand that the PURPOSE of correction is NOT solely "punishment for wrong-doing," it is intended to result in changed behavior and a reestablishment of relationship.




klb, this is precisely WHY you need to keep posting here. It IS draining emotionally. I want you to open your Bible every time you feel you are almost running on "empty" and read and meditate quietly on Philippians 4:13. KNOW that God KNOWS your limitations as well as your limited human strength and that you are NOT "in this alone," nor are your limited because you have access to God "Unlimited, Omnipotent" power. God provides the MEANS to DO what He has commanded us to do. He does NOT abandon us to our only our own resources.

You are DOING GREAT! Keep the focus on ending the affair. That's all you need to be thinking about now with respect to your husband. Spend the rest of your time and energy on yourself and your children.

By the way, get yourself a pretty new outfit, get a babysitter, and go out with some friends for just a "fun night." Be the fun you that you were when you were in high school and didn't have all the "adult" problems.

God bless.

Never thought of it like that... I always thought of myself as helping God, never thought that I could be in his way, HMMM something to seriously ponder.

Biggest issue here is that I need to find some friends to go out with! I know that sounds pathetic, but I haven't had the ability because of WH selfishness and unwillingness to watch the kids or let me use the car in 3 years that most of my friends are busy with their families and don't go out with just the girls either, so I am trying to find a place to meet or reaquaint myself with some single or just a group of ladies to go out with. I totally agree with this and am working on this area, but currently have no outlet other than church activities that I can get a ride to.

Just curious by this you mean staying focused on Plan A'ing him when he is around/contact with him? Or with regards to prayer too?

One other question for every and anyone....
Should I be letting him touch me ie. hug me and hold my hand that sort of thing while we are in Plan A? I am confused by this. When WH was over on Thursday night he kept hugging me and holding my hand, so I wanted to know how to handle this as I will be seeing him again tomorrow.

You should be smelling good, looking good, and touching him.

Most of us suggest not to have SF until the WS is tested for STD's.

I truly agree with the SF not happening till testing. I have been told that she has GenH? Don't know for fact don't really want to know now, but thank you for the advice, my love language is Phys Touch, so for me it meets an ENS also, so I am not quite so empty to continue to give to him. Now all I need to do is figure out his ENS and what my LB's are. I think that I know some of what they were, but he has changed so much, so how will I know? I am going to guess based on the fact that he has been buying her a lot of gifts that he likes to receive things, and all along I thought it was acts of service and words of affirmation. So, is there an good way to figure out what he really needs/wants?

Someone PLEASE help me focus and get it together, my WH is coming to our D's brownie award dinner at 4pm and I am a mess!!! I look nice, but emotionally am so burnt out. I had a wonderful morning at church, but then due to the rain here I had to go and take my WH's truck to OW's house so that he can get to dinner tonight. Was emotionally draining and I need to reenergize and refocus to be Plan A woman at dinner tonight. I don't know how to do light and chatty! I feel like I am deep and thoughtful due to all of this, but want to feel like the teenager he fell in love with all those years ago, but I can't find her in all this pain and chaos, so Please tell me some things that are light and chatty that we can talk about tonight. My parents will also be there and they are in full hate mode, but trying for D to be civil to him. They don't understand why I would even consider taking him back and I am having a hard time remembering the good things to praise him for. I think I am going to take a nap with the baby and then make a list of all his praiseworthy qualities and try to think of some good memories/times to talk about and I will come back to see if any other suggestions came. I know that none of you know us personally, but I really need to find level ground, so many and so much around me is focusing on the negative and the move on without and get better philosophy, but I don't think that is what God wants of me, so I will check back after my nap!

Men usually have a need for admiration, so if you can possibly find something to admire about him, do that.

Also be sure the home is warm and welcoming.

And don't expect anything from him. As long as he is addicted to the OW, he won't be much use.

If you can figure out something that you need help with, ask him, and then thank him.

I won't even ask why you were taking his truck to the OW's home................

klb, chew on this one for a while and see what you think about whether or not the "dress size" is right for you or not:


Why? Because YOU meant your VOWS. Period. End of discussion. Opinions have been stated, now it's YOUR marriage and YOUR decision. Don't allow others to abuse you by forcing their opinions on you.


Consider this too, because of the faithfulness of God.


Huh? What faithfulness?

We see, and show, the faithfulness of God most clearly when it is in response to the unfaithfulness of man.

You CAN, because God already did it for you. And it hurt Him too, but He did it anyway.


Last thought, you don't want "problems" at the Brownie dinner, and we all understand that. You want to protect your daughter from possible embarassment, and we all understand that. You don't want "dirty laundry" aired in public, and we understand that. Do what you can, that's all you can do and all that can be expected of you right now.

But don't forget, he is STILL unrepentant and still in an affair, and the "problems" are of HIS making. Don't shield him where it is not warranted, but don't use what is for your daughter (the dinner) as a "pawn" between adults.

Philippians 4:13, klb. Romans 8:28-29, klb. Rest in the Lord, be the Lord's daughter tonight, klb.

God bless.

Mostly because I didn't want him to use it as an excuse to have her show up tonight and ruin my daughter's night. It has been pouring the perverbial cats and dogs here all day, so I tried to do the loving thing and make sure that he had appropriate transportation. We took the truck to a store that is about a block away, but it still stank rotten eggs!!!!
If I am truly honest with myself too, it is because I love him and desire him to do the right thing and come home, not that that is what he is doing. The only real thing that is happenning is that I am making scars, you know when things start going a little good, you pick the "scab" off, look at a picture, venture emotionally too close, read your love notes to each other. But mostly, I have ALWAYS tried very hard to do the loving and right thing even when it hurts, but now I need to start protecting that love and myself dignity!
40 minutes to go time to go pray and I will be back on after the kiddos go to bed to update and get feedback. Thanks for loving me through!

Prayers going up from Southern California that the evening will go well, and you will be strong and calm, a Proverbs31 woman.

Thanks ForeverHers your words always point me in the right direction....to the only one that loves me unconditionally and always, he will never leave me or forsake me, and with and through him all things truly are possible.
I have chewed and I just am not good at the quick responses, I have always struggled in situations when I want to make a good come back with the right words and several hours later I figure one out. I am one of those slow to speak....

Thanks more later.....

AMEN AMEN AND AMEN!!! Thanks so much Believer....

Praying for you now.

Thank you all!!! I definitely felt your prayers. Started out on very shakey ground, but ended wonderfully. Talked a lot, my family was wonderful, my sister and b-in-l showed up too, and they both embraced him and welcomed WH and my parents made small talk too, and it broke the awkwardness. A lot of handholding and hugs before he finally left about 7:30pm, and before he left I kissed his cheek and told him he can call anytime he needs/wants to talk or email or whatever. I told him I love him and reminded him again that he is so worth it then kissed his cheek before leaving and coming into the yard to where the children and my family were playing, so I started playing with them and laughing really laughing for the first time in I think months. It was sooo much fun, I think I am starting to believe that I don't really need him to be happy, but that I choose to want him in my life to share it, and also I believe that is what God wants too (his word says so and everytime I try to close my heart to him, God reopens it, so I'd say the book isn't fully written yet!)
Thank you all and keep helping me to stay positive and keep loving this foggy WH. I want to stay out of God's way but yet be a tool that he can use.
WH wants me to go with him to talk to a company about refinancing some of our debts and consolidating them to make it easier to really focus on paying them off. I am unsure if I should really be involved, but he wants me there for my advice and opinion, not because he wants me to pay it, he said that he realizes that they are a result of his mistakes and bad choices, but that I have always been level and objective with financial matters. What does everyone think? I think it could be a good idea if we get the opportunity to spend more positive time together, but I want to make sure because I am too new at this and I think I am too emotionally connected to make good objective decisions.

Am I allowed to ask others their story for how they made it to recovery and how long the Plan A/ Plan B took to get to the recovery phase? I don't know is there an average length of time for this to happen. My H has been involved with OW since Aug 06 and physical affair began late Nov 06 he moved in with her Mar 31, 08 So I was just wondering the duration of things like this is there some indications?

Of course you can ask. Are you sure you want the "sordid details" though, it can be a little rough on you if you read painful things if you "identify" with the pain?

I want to know how you all made it through and how long the "Silent Years" can last, I want to be a blessing to others, but cannot seem to see or think straight most times and I don't know, but I guess I want some hope from those of you who have gotten so strong! I want to be strong too!
None of us wants to feel any more pain than they need too, but this is my journey and I want to grow, change, and be refined and I don't know how to do that. So, I ask honestly is there any other way?

Refinancing is usually a bad idea. It often just gives people the opportunity to run up more debt.

I wouldn't do it and wouldn't go with him acting as his partner, while he is living elsewhere. Also I would legally protect myself from his financial decisions the best way possible.

As for length of time, his affair is due to end by August if he keeps up with the average. Something like 90% are over within 2 years.

Why don't you simply tell your husband that refinancing right now doesn't make much sense to you since it appears that he doesn't want to be married to you. There is "no point" in refinancing a house for the TWO of you if the "two of you" is him and any other woman. At best, that would be refinacing a "house," but not a "marital home," which you would be unlikely to be able to keep anyway if he continues on a path that does not include YOU in the future. It would be "better" for you (financially) and the children if he is going to divorce you for some other woman to sell the house, as well as better for you so that he can't move into the house with the OW in the future.

"Plans" for a future, like a house, are for a FAMILY, not for self-indulgence.

Tell him you can talk about the house AFTER he decides what he really wants to do.

Besides, if he does go the "divorce route," he is very likely going to have to "contribute" by court order.

Why don't you ask him the next time he brings this up if it might not make more sense at this time to contact a Realtor about selling the house rather than contacting someone to refinance a house you are not both living in as husband and wife?

Consequences, klb. His actions have consequences. Don't "bail him out" of having to face those consequences. And yes, I know you don't want to sell, but his consequences WILL also affect you and the children, and he needs to "See" that too. The "fantasy" is NOT "all fun and games." There ARE "Real Life" consequences that he, you, and the children will have to pay just so he can "live a lie."


God bless.

Thank you Believer. I have been wondering about the timeframe because I have been seeing signs of instability and breakdown, but don't understand all the stats and ins and outs of affairs on that side of things. I have been reading and trying to learn, I want to be able to be a blessing to someone else, and get strong.

I laughed for the first time yesterday! What a silly milestone to be proud of, but I am. It was nice to genuinely feel good and happy. I am glad to not feel sadness all the time. I am proud of the great time and talk my WH and I had, but I really had such a good time watching my daughter receive all the badges she earned this year in Brownies, I was so proud of all her hardwork and dedication in spite of all the pain and trials this year! And, it was fun to play a huge game of monkey in the middle with my entire family (ages 1-60). We laughed so hard at times we almost wet ourselves, and when my family went home I actually watched a movie and did my devotions in peace and happiness. YEAH ME!!!

He is still living with OW, and I agree with the finances thing, my name is not on the debts that he is wanting to refinance, that was the one reason I wasn't worried about going or helping him because ultimately they are his, I was glad that he asked me, but I see your point and quite honestly he is still wayward, so I don't want to be too involved because right now I think he still wants cake and pie. Stable steady submissive supportive wife and exciting OW.

Sorry let me clarify, the refinance that he would like me to help with is for a bunch of credit debts that he would like to consolidate to make making the payments easier (WH has ADD) for him to only have one payment versus 7.

Okay, update, WH and I spoke on phone earlier and he has upgraded from he hates me and wants a divorce to he doesn't know what he wants, he is confused, but doesn't want to continue hurting me and the children. I said that I am fully 100% committed to our marriage and that he needs to make the decision to be committed to our marriage and children also that that had to be 100% his decision.
Also, I told him that since he was not living as my husband right now that I could not accompany him to the bank to help him refinance some of these debts, I hoped that he was doing it for the right reasons.
I ended the call telling him that I love him. He asked me to call him back later so we could talk more. I don't know if emotionally I am up for more today, also if he doesn't know, then what else do we talk about? We seem to have good conversations and he told me that I was a good woman and wife, but that we didn't make each other happy anymore that he had changed so much, he seems to focus on that, so I ask what he likes to do when he isn't working and try to encourage him to talk about his likes and such, but so far he isn't talking too much. Any suggestions for getting him to open up and trust again?

Good job! You need to sweetly let him know that his affair will beed to end before the two of you act as a team anymore. Keep up your resolve not to help him refinance. The more money problems he has while living with the OW, the better.

That is what will shorten the affair!

I totally understand, and see the prudence in this wisdom. WH has court appearance on Thurs. for a speeding ticket he received a few months ago. The Dist Justice that he is appearing before is a former co-worker of both WH and OW and he is disgusted by my H's actions, so I think that will be a good reality check for WH. WH also confessed that he hit a mirror on another vehicle and he has to pay for that also. Also, OW got fired from the place that they met! So, financial pressures are mounting drastically!!!
I just pray that I can find some additional strength within myself and my relationship with God! I am feeling so tired emotionally, I keep seeking God and relying on his promises. I love the Lord, and know that he will never leave or forsake me, and that he can do exceedingly above anything I could ever ask or imagine. I know that 2 months alone is nothing, but I haven't even had a break from my children in all that time, there is always reasons why no one can take them, and I understand and realize that is God's way of saying that I am supposed to be here for some reason, I just wish that I knew the lessons that I haven't learned, and that I could learn them and make God proud of me!
How do go forward from here, do I keep contacting him or let hhim reach out next? Does anyone have a good site for good e-cards? I was thinking that I could start sending some nice cards every so often. Our wedding anniversary is also coming up, do I acknowledge it? if so, how? What about Father's Day? He didn't call or anything for Mother's Day, in fact his parents took the OW out for Mother's Day dinner to welcome her to the family (Ouch!) I know this isn't about me right now, but it still hurts.
Another question, WH bought another car, so he has two right now, and he wants to give me our Expedition back to me, however the payments are $435/month and with $500/week I can't afford that, so what should I do? I need a vehicle, I can't get to the grocery store, the doctor's office, anywhere, so what do I do? I need transportation, but I don't want to feel like he has done me a great favor that he could call up for return at any time, not that he is a vindictive man, but given the fact that he is with another woman he is clearly not the man that I fell in love with!

klb, this is "fogtalk." Let him talk like this if he wants to try to rationalize what he is choosing to do, but YOU ignore this sort of talk. Just "let it go in one ear and out the other."




He can't "open up and trust again." To do so would require acknowledging that what he is doing is wrong and a willful SIN against God.

For example, when he says, "we didn't make each other happy anymore," he has lost sight of the fact that we MAKE our happiness, it doesn't just happen by chance. How "happy" do you really think he is, or will be, knowing that the OW is, herself, a cheater at heart with no respect for the sanctity of marriage or the UNHAPPINESS that she is visiting upon your children?

Take the "happiness" thing and "shove it." There are happy times and sad times, good times and bad times, easy times and hard times, healthy times and sick times, etc., etc., etc.. THAT is what Marriage IS.

Here, read this one again:

THE BLESSING IN "NO"
=====================

I asked God to take away my pride.
God said "No."
It is not for Me to take away,
but for you to give it up.

I asked God to make my handicapped child whole.
God said "No."
Her spirit was whole,
her body was only temporary.

I asked God to grant me patience.
God said "No."
Patience is a byproduct of tribulations;
it isn't granted,
it is earned.

I asked God to give me happiness.
God said "No."
I give you blessings,
happiness is up to you.

I asked God to spare me pain.
God said "No."
Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares
and brings you closer to Me.

I asked God to make my spirit grow.
God said "No."
You must grow on your own,
but I will prune you to make you fruitful.

I asked for all things that I might enjoy life.
God said "No."
I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things.

I ask God to help me LOVE others, as much as He loves me.
God said... Ahhhh, finally you have the idea!

Author Unknown

(MountainWings #3217 A MountainWings Moment




You have the indwelling Holy Spirit, klb. He IS in relationship with you and He has all the strength you need. He even "groans" in words the Father understands for you when you don't know how to put what you want to say into words.



This, AND he bought another car?

Don't you dare give into temptation and take that Expedition financial load off of him!

Talk to your church and see if anyone can help you out temporarily with some transportation.

And while we are mentioning the church, what has the Pastor been up to with respect to a Matthew 18:15-20 intervention? WHO is, is anyone is, talking to your husband about HIS relationship with God?



klb, I want to say this with all gentleness, but also with all firmness.....stop this immediately! You HAVE learned the lessons and you are allowing yourself to be lead into even new lessons in walking with the Lord. God IS proud of you...you are His faithful child. Why on earth would God not be proud of you? Have you forgotten that ALL of your sins have already been forgiven by God and that there is no "stain" remaining? I, and no one else either, can be with you 24 hours a day 365 days a year...but God can and does. Do you think He would do that for someone He is not proud of?

But if you really need it, I have a small vial of "magic, instant, God is proud of me, angeldust" (not the awful fake angeldust you can buy from a local pusher). This stuff will make you instantly perfect, but be careful with it, I only have enough of it to match the size of a mustard seed. It's enough, though, if you use it properly.



Yes I do, if you really want it. Go easy on the cards and contact, though. He needs to feel God's displeasure with him and his blatant sin.

klb, those of us who have been through what you are going through know how LOOOOOONG each day seems. We know how DRAINING on the emotions this is and how hard it is to remain focused. Invest some time in the children. Let yourself have some fun with them and some time when you DON'T think about your husband and your marriage. We all know how you are thinking about the situation almost ALL the time. What you need to do is take a little of that time when you are occupied with the kids, or with anything, that will "take all of your mind" for a while. In short, schedule yourself some to NOT think about the affair and just let God handle what needs to be handled when you can't assist Him because you can't be mentally "in two places at the same time." God can, and you can "rest" in the knowledge that He CAN "handle things without you" for a while.

God bless.

Thank you ForeverHers, I can always count on you to give me a good smack upside the head to shake the cobwebs loose and realize what I already have, but forget or just shift to the side. I actually have that poem printed and framed in my office! I forget that valleys are long and hard.


NO ONE! Sorry to shout, but I am exasperated, the pastor called him Saturday to tell him he is praying for him and loves him and wants to see him come to church, that there are many who want to help him through this time. AHHHH! I know that they want to draw him back to the fold, but I feel as if no one has a backbone to really say the truth of the situation to him but me!! I am the only one who is calling what he is doing sin to him, he admits it as sin and a mistake, but not something he is ready to break free from yet... I feel as if I am the fall back girl, he just continues to drag out the affair and when it ends that he will say oh well I guess I'll go home. I want to be his choice, not a leftover!


Yeah, I think he thinks that I am just sitting here a miserable mess just crying and pining away for him. I admit there are times that I am a mess over the betrayal and destruction of our precious family, but I am NOT taking that truck payment on, he said that he would continue to pay it but let me have the truck or give me the car that he bought when it is inspected, but I really don't want to take any favors that could come back to bite me in the butt later from him. There is absolutely no temptation on the truck, cant afford the payments or really to drive it on the little that I am getting in support with all the other bills. As for the church, my friends are getting me there most of the time and my parents are helping as they are able. I am truly grateful for all of them, but it is getting difficult as I have 2 in carseats, so that makes it a lot for a typical family to add to their own.

Thank you for the reminder about time, it will be much easier starting next week too, I start my graduate classes, so I will have even more to focus on as I am going to college online to obtain my master's degree, so I can re-enter the workforce and be able to provide for my children.

Question: When I was working on the questionaires for the EN's and Lovebusters, how should I effectively evaluate those questions, before the 2 years of this affair when he and I were "normal" because it is hard to really answer some of it because he has been so unstable that he is one way one minute and another the next. Much like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.
Also, he asks me to call just about everyday, should I do that or should I just call like once a week or what? I want to fill him with the positive Plan A woman, and I see that the positive interactions are making him confused because he is seeing and liking the changes, but when should he be called to a choice, his family or her, or do I just keep on keeping on and let God decide?

klb, I am not fit to offer any advice right now. I'll have to ask you bear with me a little while

Right now I am just short of "volcanic" and trying very hard not to explode!

Pray for him, love him, want to see him come to church....I want to vomit!

Pray for him I understand and agree. But pray for WHAT?

Love him I understand, but love WHAT about blatant willful disobedience and sin against Christ who was beaten and DIED for him?

Want him to come to church....for WHAT, so they can welcome a practicing adulterer and "lovingly condone" his active rebellion against God?

klb, are there ANY men in that church who believe church DISCIPLINE as a COMMAND of God, and as a command BY God TO the church, something that should be obeyed even if it makes them "uncomfortable?"

Somebody who STANDS for Christ needs to lovingly CONFRONT a brother who is willfully sinning, up to and including hanging out the "not welcome in this church until you repent" sign, if the steps of church discipline need to go that far because of his incalcitrance. EITHER he IS believer or he is NOT.

But YOU are a believer AND the Betrayed Spouse...and, in my not so humble righteous anger...the Pastor needs to get off his "conflict avoidance buttocks" and be obedient to God's command to him as the shepard of that local flock.


"there are many who want to help him through this time." WHAT??? Helping him comes AFTER he repents and ends the affair. If they want to help him through this, then go and confront him about willful sin and the FACT that NO unrepentant adulterer will be in heaven. IS he saved? Then end the affair now and obey God. Period. Help him once he has done that and help to restore him to fellowship, but NOT until he has surrendered TO God. Don't take this wrong, but I don't give one whit if he thinks he isn't "happy." He was "bought and paid for" by Christ's blood and death. If THAT wasn't enough to "earn" his obedience, then he is NOT a believer and the "bigger issue" IS his soul and where he will be "happy" or not for all eternity.

Can you tell I'm upset?

If I could talk to your Pastor I would ask HIM one simple question. "Pastor, do you believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, Word of God and that, as believers it is our obligation to God to obey His commands to each one of us who claims to be saved by the grace of God?"

His answer to that question should be very revealing and it should result in being obedient to Matthew 18:15-20 as well as any other commands of God TO believers.

klb, is there no one in that church who CAN talk with your husband about what it means to BE an obedient SERVANT of God?

Thank you for your vocanic erruption, quite honestly that is what I expected from my church and family. I think everyone wants to be loving and all because they know my WH and he doesn't respond well to being told what is what. The funniest thing of all of this is that he believes that all things are either black or white, well he certainly isn't living proof of that, he is just tepid if that!

I know that when I expressed to the pastor that I was a part of Dr. Harley's MB site and that I was in Plan A right now he expressed a desire to know when I move to Plan B so that he could come down on him then, I don't know if he is misunderstanding that I am supposed to be the one showing loving acts to meet his EN's or what?????
I agree with you about conflict avoidance big time! He has shown that trait greatly.

As for when to move to Plan B, I feel that the time is coming swiftly that he will need to be cut off from us, so that he doesn't continue to think that I will condone this eternally and that he can put off making a decision regarding one or the other. I truly feel compassion and empathy for this other woman, in so much as I know what it feels like to love something and have it wreak havoc on your life being torn and back and forth between two women. However, I believe completely that my WH was the gift that God gave to me on our wedding day and despite the fact that he has made that gift "appear" as trash, with a little love and care he and I would both be able to see the true treasures that God gave us in one another.

I really need to build my own self confidence, for far too long I have allowed the hurtful things his parents have said about me and how inadequate of a woman, wife, and mother I am to my WH and in general affect my confidence, and had gone from an outgoing interactive person to a very shy and quiet behind the scenes person, also the pastor had asked that I step down from all ministry positions during this time so that I could focus on my family and marriage. As I can see the partial, human wisdom in this, it is hard to buy into that as I have no husband or marriage to work on right now, so I am feeling lost.

Thank you again for your righteous anger, it truly helped because I feel as though I am the only one who is feeling that frustration and anger about to errupt!

Have a good day, my friend is picking us up for Bible Study, we are studying Naomi, Ruth and Orpah today.

God bless....

Good evening everyone, I hope that everyone had a good day. Mine was good, had some ups and downs, but I guess if there are more ups than downs then we did good?!?

Bible Study was good, we studied Naomi and Ruth. What a powerful story of love, loss/tradgedy, and how the Lord blesses those who choose to remain steadfast and focused on the Him. The ladies then opened up to me about the challenges and trials that I am going through, and I learned a lot about myself. I realized and the ladies pointed out to me that my biggest challenge that I needed to address was the fact that I have no self esteem and that I don't know who I am in the Lord either! I have always struggled throughout life with low self esteem and not knowing where or how to fit in. Even in elementary school I was the child that they all picked on because it worked, I was/am so sensitive and caring, yet clutsy and smart. In high school because I couldn't deal with or understand girly problems, and tended to talk with and have more male friends I was tormented and because of what they thought of me eventually my Junior year was raped because that was what was thought I did with all my friends, so then I just didn't care anymore and started living like what people thought of me. I got counseling in college and tried really hard to heal, and thought that I had, my WH was the one that really loved me and helped me through the darkest days. He was the only one that I never slept with until we were engaged, but then we lived together for my last year of college before the wedding. Neither of us were saved Christians yet, but it still doesn't please the Lord the choices that we made. Then in Nov of 1998 we were saved at a business conference that we were at, and our lives changed so drastically, but 3 months later Satan began his attacks, I stayed steadfast and held firm, but we all know where my loving WH ended up. Now I know that I need to really dig in and find myself in Christ and heal myself and become a real Proverbs 31 woman! I just don't know how or where to start. I have been trying to find a Christian counselor to help me, I started with one, but due to lack of transportation, I had to stop, and honestly I didn't really feel a connection with her, she was so quiet and didn't really offer any help/activities things to help me through, and the books that I brought up she hadn't read, so I did my own research and landed here at MB, and I am so thankful, but I really need a person who can "hold my hand" and give me guidance, I really don't know what to do to find my way out of the sorrow, I want to laugh again and smile and really feel again. I also want to be a good mother, I want my children to remember that their mommy was strong and held it together when things were really tough.

Pardon the extreme runons, but I think that I might be getting at the heart of me, and it really isn't too pretty....

Thank you all for the encouragement and information. Good luck to each and every one....

How are you doing? Just checking in with you.

One minute I am up and the next down. WH was scheduled for visitation last night and no call no showed, but he did send an e-mail saying he was "sick" but no mention that he was supposed to come see the kids. I guess we are lost in the fog again!

I am also really struggling with the holiday this weekend. My whole family is going out of state to visit my very pregnant middle sister. My children and I couldn't go due to H leaving and not knowing at time of plans what I could/couldn't do legally, so I am alone. I want to do something fun with the kids, but to take them out without help is a real challenge, the middle one (boy 5) has ADHD and impulse control issues, so he just takes off, and I have a one year old, so I'm not too sure what to do with them.

Oh yeah, and Tuesday morning I am starting my Master's Degree, so I am a little nervous about that, excited though. This is something I have wanted for a long time and there were always excuses and obstacles....till now!

Thank you for asking, I hope all is going well for you.....

Working on your Masters will be a good start to feeling better about yourself KLB but striving to be a Proverbs 31 woman is the best. God will hold your hand through this. Begin each day in prayer and ask him to walk you through this trial. Whatever happens, you will end up a better woman on the other side. That is what plan A is all about. It is working on yourself so that you become the best person you are capable of being. Sometimes that brings your WH back to being H but it ALWAYS is good for you.

I have no one to talk to about the experiences in my life of the last year either. I know that the MB way is to expose but my husband's personality is such that the shame of exposure would have destroyed our marriage. It is our secret and it draws us close. I believe our marriage is fully recovered. I am not sure whether I am fully healed. I know that I am a different person than I was before this happened and I will never be that person again.

You have made great progress since you first started posting. You have a close group of friends in your Bible study and a true 24 hour friend in Jesus. Read Psalm 139: 13-18 every day. You are fearfully and wonderfully made KLB. I clung to the last part of verse 18 when I was doing so little sleeping.

Fix a picnic lunch of your little one's favorite goodies and spread a picnic lunch on a blanket in your back yard this weekend. Give them your undivided attention. that is all they really need. You can do this KLB. Weall have in our own ways by hanging together.

Praying for you,

Say

Thank you so much Say for your kind and loving, sage advice! Psalm 139 has always been so comforting to me, I just need to believe it and trust.

I am logged on a lot I am not where you are in your journey, but I am a good listener, so if you ever need a shoulder. I am generally here.

Thanks for the advice about this weekend. I will be praying for you to have a good weekend and for the Lord to be at work in your home/marriage.

This is a post by KLB on the Plan A/Plan B board. She started a thread there asking how to write a Plan B letter.

I posted Dr. H's sample letter to her over there, but thought it best if she kept her "stuff" here on this one thread for continued help.

This is fog babble. Very typical.



I know how much it hurts to watch your children be hurt like this.




He will NOT see you and the children any differently UNTIL his affair ends.



Absolutely NO! HIS relationship with HIS children is HIS responsibility.

Those broken relationships are part of the consequences of affairs. It is heartbreaking for the BS to watch, but if you get involved in trying to "fix" it, you remove important consequences for the WS. You cannot "fix" the relationship anyway.


What you SHOULD be doing is DOCUMENTING everything like this. My lawyer told me to buy a calendar/planner and make notes daily about what had happened.

If he repeatedly misses visitation, it will help you in your battle for custody if it gets that far.




My 13 yod said the same thing. In fact, while FWS was moved out, she refused to go for any visitation.

FWS was furious with ME because I would not force her to go. FWS says now that our daughter cutting him out of her life had a huge impact on him and helped bust the fantasy that they would all adjust.



As for what to do now, I suggest you change the name of your very first post on this thread to something like:

Need help getting ready for Plan B.

That callout will bring some who have done plan B here to help you.

You can do that by clicking on the edit button on your first post. Then go to the subject line and type in the new one.

Well, this weekend has been rough. I called WH to ask for some assistance with something at the house, but he was "sick" and couldn't come over for fear that he would get the kids sick! Then said he wanted to come to the concert we were having today at church, but he wasn't sure if he could, he would have to see, but that he would try to come there or to our picnic after, well, I know big surprise, he no showed for either one, left the kids down AGAIN.... So, now he wants to come and spend the day with us and "see" tomorrow!!!! I am tired of getting the run around and the lies, the kids are DONE, they told me they don't want any more, they said to call and tell him anything, but that they don't want to see him or hear any more of his lies, SO, I am thinking that it is time for Plan B. I want to get myself together and stop feeling like he is playing me for a fool and just hurting me and the children more and more

What do I do? All my friends and family say that it is time to cut him off and make him realize that his actions have serious consequences. I agree totally, but I just wanted to have some positive interactions for him to look back to and say she really tried despite the way I was, she really loved me and was kind even to the end.

What do I do, it is already 9:30p here, so I need help so I can call him and let him know but I am not sure how to say it....

Help me Please!

I suggest you put on your Plan A smile and sweet voice when you call.

Thank WS for the offer to spend the day with you, but decline because you and the kids already have your day filled.

Then make arrangements with friend, family, or just you and the kids. But GO SOMEWHERE. A park, a hike, a friend's house, anywhere. Stay out all day.

But be sure to PLEASANTLY decline.

This sends him the message that you and the children don't revolve around HIS schedule. You have a life of your own and are living it.

Also, by handling it politely, you continue with your Plan A.

Your ducks are not in a row for Plan B. You've got to hold it together until they are.

Do NOT love bust no matter what. Sometimes I would just smile and nod, because if I said anything, FWS would have felt like I had a baseball bat in my hands.

Hang in there. You can implement Plan B this week.

What to do to get ready to Plan B:


1. Work on your Plan B letter, and post it here before you give it to him.

2. Post here your financial situation...are you dependent completely on WS? do you have your own credit card and checking account or is it joint? Did you make child support arrangements?

3. Consult with a lawyer IMMEDIATELY for legal separation to deal with child support and visitation.

4. Arrange your intermediary and get them here to read about Plan B.

5. Are there any other loose ends that you absolutely have to interact with him on? If so, post here and let us know what it is.

If you work on all this right away, hopefully, you can deliver the Plan B letter before week's end and go completely dark.

You need the protection of Plan B. But you can't just jump into it. Stay in Plan A, with as minimal contact as possible for your own protection, and get your Plan B ready to implement.

SS gave you perfect advice. I think you are too worn down to be around him tomorrow and need to escape such a meeting. Like SS pointed out, be polite, pleasant and PREPARE for Plan B.

SS and MelodyLane,
Thank you for your words of wisdom. However, things didn't go too well with the call. I was nice and sweet, but he got really ugly. He hung up on me when I told him that today wasn't going to work out. I called back and OW's teenage daughter started in on me that I am the trash wh**e and that I was begging for him and that he is her mom's and I better watch out and then he took the phone, He started pushing emotionally and verbally and I basically told him I love you, but I cannot continue to allow him to attack me emotionally and verbally, and that the children are very upset and don't want to see him right now because he has lied to them and made bad choices. I said that we could try again another time when they are ready. To this he said that I have made my decision and that there is nothing to say to each other anymore. He said that he hates me and there in NO way that he is EVER coming back, our marriage is OVER. I said that I am sorry that you feel that way, and that I would be here if he changed his mind or if he decided to proceed with a divorce. I said I do not want a divorce, but that if that was his decision I wished him well.

As for the children he said that he would agree to leave them alone for a while while he thought about what I said and made some decisions regarding them.

As for plan B, I already have a person in place, I have my own checking account, I have saved about $3,000 not much but best I could do on $500/week with paying the house and all the utilities. I only have 2 things here yet that will need to be taken and dropped off for him and they are our bed and dining room table/chairs. (They are on a credit card in his name that he has not been paying on.) I feel that in giving them to him he can then decide what to do either sell or return them or whatever, but then he can't say that I still have them and he paid for them.

I am sorry that I failed so miserably at Plan A, I really tried to be sweet and kind and loving... I never lost my temper with him, I tried to leave him feeling good, I thought he was since the times that he came around he was hugging me and holding my hand and cried a lot, especially for a man who never cried before he left in March.

I tried really hard, but I guess I am just not strong enough for Plan A, and maybe even at all! I loved my husband very much, and I am committed still, but I just hurt so badly and am so tired, I just want to pack up and the children and I move away, but he has made so many bad choices that financially I cannot do that...YET. I start my masters degree program tomorrow, so I need to throw myself into this with all that I have left and work on getting myself strong again.

What's next or is it done?

Sorry that the Plan A effort didn't go as planned. But things like that happen. Focus on a nice day with your kids. Try to relax and spend family time. Put thoughts of hubby on the back burner.

I also suggest that you not talk to the daughter again. Let her and your husband know that you will not be disrespected.

But it is kind of a good sign, because if she is so disrespectful to you, it is only a matter of time before she starts in on your husband.

klb, 'hon, you really do have to stop this sort of thing. YOU are not at fault. YOU have done a good "plan A."

I did a good "plan A," too, but sometimes they don't respond BECAUSE they don't think they are REQUIRED to make a decision.

Understand this, klb, GOD requires each of us to make decisions. The most important decision is to accept or reject Jesus Christ. The next decision is to submit our lives to Him (to His commands and teaching) rather than to our own "will" or "desires."

Sometimes (most of the time actually) it requires "precipitating a crisis" before a choice can be made. You can no more affect or be responsible for someone else's choice to reject Christ than you can for your husband choosing to reject his marriage vows and his responsibilities as a husband and as a father.

Consider what he "allowed" the OW's daugther to say to another human being. It is "Other Woman and HER daughter against everyone who might come between their getting what they WANT." That YOU are the one who is married to him and that your children ARE HIS children, is "lost" in his selfishness and he can't see the laughable position that the OW's daughter was taking with you.

Why?

Because he has not had to CHOOSE yet.

Plan B, standing FOR God and His commands, and a Divorce if necessary, WILL precipitate such a crisis. Be ready "in your own skin" that he may "choose poorly" again. Be comforted in the knowledge that neither you nor you children need this "alien lookalike" as husband or father.

Here is the "bottom line" for all of us, klb. "Choose ye THIS day whom ye shall SERVE, but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

God bless.

Thank you and I agree, and I hope that it brings/brought dissention between them. I pray that God will move quickly and swiftly and thoroughly to bring about the result that will be most pleasing to Him. They have been suffering and reaping what they have sown, but it still hurts so bad to see him with another woman when he vowed to God and me. I know that the Lord will be my husband and will not leave or forsake me, and that I can remain safe under the shelter of his everloving arms.

Please let me know more of the rules/guidelines for Plan B and how to continue to grow and move forward.

Thank you.

klb, "rule number one" in Plan B is "easy to state, harder to actually practice."

#1 - DO NOT respond to or have any direct contact with a WS who you have chosen to place in a strict "Plan B." Plan B is an ultimatum. If you "waiver" on an ultimatum, the "opponent" wins and any future ultimatums will be ignored. If he calls, don't answer, or hang up the minute you know it's him. If he text's you, ignore it and DO NOT answer. You get the idea, right?

That's why Reagan, for example, won the war with the USSR without firing a shot. They knew and believed that he would not "vacilate" once he committed to a course of action. (i.e. the "Star Wars" plan and the build up of the military.

It's no different in Plan B. "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall." A simple statement of what Gorby needed to DO to SHOW he was willing to "change."

"Mr. klb," END the affair or we have nothing further to discuss outside of the "court of world opinion" wherein the COURT will choose for you.

YOU have to be TOUGH. YOU have to know WHY you are going to Plan B. It is NOT to "punish" him. IT IS with the hope for a goal of CHANGE and reestablishment of the relationship that IS "marriage as God intended it to be." It is for a hoped for positive outcome, all the while recognizing that ONLY your husband can CHOOSE for himself.

Now "put yourself in your husband's shoes" for just one brief, possibly terrifying minute. Would YOU really want to be standing in oppostion to the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY?!?!

That's what disobedience to God's commands is.

YOU will not be alone during the "dark time." You have family, church, friends, ...and you have US... who have walked a similar path too. Use these resources that God has provide to you for this time of tribulation in your life.

God bless.

KL,

You are doing great..... Sounds like you handled things PERFECTLY!

The OW and her kid are living in fear...They are afraid of YOU.... Your H is putting on a show for them when he is on the phone with you, because they are demanding that! Lots of Lovebusting going on in that place! Just know it's fear and a bunch of wayward nonsense.... blah, blah, blah.

Stick with your plan. Stay focused. Eyes ahead, knowing you are in Gods will.

SMB and I are praying for you and yours.

Are you still calling him at the OW's home? I think I would stop doing that and let him contact you.

No, that was a one time thing. And trust me I don't intend to put myself through that heartache EVER AGAIN! That was horrible hearing those people talk to me like that and hear that there is a baby to a teenager in the home and Oh, my!!!

Should I still give a Plan B letter or do you think the phone conversation is enough? I didn't tell him who the intermediary would be?
I did leave a message for him on his cell phone today that said that the bed and table/chairs are in our storage building that he could get them from there, that way he didn't have to come to the house. I also reiterated that the children would contact him when they were ready and that I was fine with that whenever they were asking for him. But from here until our hearing in July or he contacts me, I feel that I am totally lights out. Now, I just have to sleep on the couch till I can afford a bed, could be a while I think the voluntary support may end till July when he is required to pay, but I could be wrong.

Trusting in the only one who will NEVER fail me.....God Almighty.

You really need to go by the MB book. So a Plan B letter is required. Start writing it now.

You can take your time on this, there is no hurry. Be certain that there is no reason for him to need to contact you.

If you think he will stop voluntarily paying support, you might want to wait another month or so. In the meantime, STOP calling him. When he contacts you, be pleasant. If he is angry or mean, let him know that you are his wife and won't tolerate his poor behavior, and hang up.

Believer,
So, if I did as you are suggesting it would be a sortof modified Plan A into Plan B?
Meaning I would not contact him, but if contacted by him be direct to the point, kind but not going into true dialog? Am I understanding that correctly?

I have been working on my Plan B letter, but I am not sure if this is to be in part a farewell love note? I guess I need to know the key points that need to be covered, the letter that was sent as an example doesn't really fit a WH who has been living with OW for 2+ months. So, I guess I am asking if anyone would be willing to help guide me I will post my attempt later and then you can "have at it"

I am so grateful to all of you and I know that the Lord is at work in me, I have seen evidence of his guidance and provision, but if you all could please pray for a bed, I really don't want to have to sleep on the couch long term! I know silly little thing, but after having "given up/lost" so much already to my WH's sin, I am feeling a little down about just one more thing. I know God will provide and the tables will turn, but I am starting college for my masters tomorrow, looking for a job, homeschooling my kids and not really sleeping yet! Sometimes it would be nice to catch a glimpse from the other side of this valley that I am journeying through!

Also wondering in taking the questionaires how am I supposed to answer my EN's questionaire, as I am, have been previously, or am changing into? Or should I just wait a little longer into the journey? I feel as if these are changing more and more with being alone. Is this normal?

KLB,

You did a great job with the phone conversation. Your WS is just a blubbering idiot right now. Keep your armor on and don't let those blows get in if you can.

Do not worry about any of the questionnaires. None of that matters right now. YOUR EN questionnaire is for when you and WS are in recovery. It is good for a BS to try to determine WS's top EN's during Plan A, but HE isn't interested in meetings YOURS.

If you want some great help with preparing for Plan B, do I as mentioned in an earlier post and change the subject line of your first post in this thread.

That new subject line will show up on the boards and those who have done plan B will know that you need help with it.

Say something like:

Need immediate help with Plan B

You have done a great job preparing financially.

How are you supporting yourself right now? Do you work outside the home? Are you able to make ends meet if he stops providing financial support?

For Plan B all you need to deal with are:

1. finances
2. visitation
3. intermediary
4. letter
5. finish any loose ends where you MUST be in contact with him


So, tell us about your financial situation by answering my questions above.

It sounds like you've both agreed to leaving visitation up to when the kids are ready??? This is in your and their best interests right now because he WILL NOT be a good father right now. They SHOULD NOT be around OW, and he has no place to take them.

Have your intermediary read here to learn what will be necessary. She cannot pass on info from WS to you unless it is relevant to the finances or children or meeting your requirements to come out of Plan B. She is your filter. This can be challenging for friends, so it is important that she understand that it is in YOUR best interest NOT to hear all his fog babble or manipulation.

Post your letter here.

1. Okay, As for finances, the $3000 is more than enough to see me through till the hearing on July 18th. My lawyer has already told me that without factoring his rental properties into the support figure that with three children the min that he should be remanded to pay will be $2300/month and our need for the house and utilities is $1500/month, and I have had support coming in from friends and such to meet the other needs that we have had (house repairs and the fact that in the past few months I have lost 50lbs, I wish I could cheer about that, but I sure don't wish this stressload on anyone!)
As for the job situation, I was a certified Deaf and Hard of Hearing teacher, but have been at home for 8 years now, so the certification has expired and my interpreting skills are very weak, so I reenrolled in college to obtain my masters degree, which has always been a goal of mine, but due to WH's selfishness and poor management of our money, I hadn't been able to do this until now.

2. Yes, visitation is up to the children. He said that he would not push them, he wants a relationship with them, but he "understands if they hate him for the rest of their lives." I explained that they just need some time and that he needs to truly change and show them his total love devotion and sacrifice his own wants and needs for them. They know that he has lied about just about everything for the last 2 years, and has let them down in so many ways, as well as his verbal and emotional attacks. He told me last night that he wouldn't pursue custody yet, that he would give us the opportunity to have some time. I assured him that the children know that they can call him any time that they want/need, and that they are reassured of that every day. They have been praying for their father and want to see him change and be the loving man that he used to be. They know that the only one that can do that is God and that he needs to live in the consequences of his sin. I just feel so sad for my children, but yet so very proud of the growth and faith that they have both shown. Their prayers for their father are so simple yet profound!

3. The intermediaries are our best friends from church, J&A. The only problem is that my WH is so consumed with guilt that he will not talk to him, but he says that WH does listen to the messages, but there is no one else that he talks to that I have contact with, he has cut off all contact with all of our friends, and is only associating with the negative crowd. So, I am wondering if this is okay? I feel comfortable and trust this family completely, and so do the children, so I feel that this is a good choice?

4. The only loose ends are that he hasn't changed the house phone bill or the garbage bill into my name, but if he is going to pay them then fine they aren't a big deal to me. I can't think of anything else, he has everything from the house out, and I changed the lock on the garage, I gave him everything that we agreed upon, but don't want him to take more! He has a lot of tools and things that we bought, and I told him that they would have to be agreed upon. Especially since I lost my bed and dining room table due to his irresponsibility!
Can you think of anything that I may have missed? Bills, House Keys, Cell Phone, All Bank Papers signed, car, belongings.

Now as for the letter, what are the guidelines, I need to tell him in the letter. I have been searching for a copy of the book and more letters to read to better understand, so any outline or examples that others are willing to share would be appreciated, and I will post the draft I have as soon as I finish.

Thank you all

Sunshine I tried to go back to my first post to change the title like you suggested and it had no edit option. Am I doing something wrong?

Here is my first draft of my Plan B letter, I know that there is a lot missing and it needs to be I think personalized more, but I am not sure what more needs to be added or if this is supposed to be cool and distant or like a last love letter?

Okay, here is my revised draft, please let me know what you think and if I need to add subtract or send! Also am I to actually write the OW's name, I really would like to avoid that if possible since her name and mine are the same just spelled different by one letter?? Thank you all...

I have put a call out on the board for Plan Bers to come and help you. Hopefully, they will show up here soon.




Great job on getting yourself prepared!




You need to buy a daily planner right away. Document all the events or visitations that he committed to and did not show.

Then start documenting everything pertaining to the children especially. If your WS never gets his head out of his hiney, you may choose to fight for full custody. Co-parenting with a wacked out wayward might not be something very appealing to you.

All of his broken commitments and then his choice to stay removed from their lives will matter in court. Arm yourself now, just in case.






The intermediaries should be someone YOU can count on to FILTER his fog babble out. They are to PROTECT you from his abuse and drama. If they are clear on that and willing to remove all babble and ONLY pass on info that is relevant (children, finances, or meeting your Plan B letter requirements to come home), they sound like a great choice.

It doesn't matter how your WS feels about the intermediary. He doesn't get a vote.

The intermediary is all about protecting you.






My lawyer told me that the one leaving the family home is not allowed to take anything other than his personal belongings..clothes, etc. Nothing that is part of the home, furnishings (which would have included your bed and table), and tools used to run the household.

If you move into divorce, then all those things will be divided 50/50. But for now, he has no right to take anything more than his personal belongings. Be sure to document anything he has taken.

Whew, at least I know that I have appropriately taken the good steps.

Lawyer is in place, have a few concerns that he is not agressive enough? Is a Christian and he said that no matter what we do WH will be granted 50/50 custody because he has not sexually or physically abused the children. Not too encouraging there! Suggestions?

Intermediaries, they are totally on board, I need to get them on the site and learning the rules and getting them educated other than what I have told them.

Daily planner, Done I have been documenting and forwarding e-mails etc to the lawyer since he walked out.

I did think of two other things that have not been resolved yet in regards to loose ends and they are that he owes me $175 for the cell phone that he smashed do I pursue this or wait and deal with it in court on July 18? The other thing is that it was brought to my attention from a mutual friend that my WH bought a car from the other husband last year and still hasn't paid him the $200. How should I handle this?

As for the bed and table, he has the credit card that they were charged onto and it is soley in his name, and has made complaints about things that he is paying for above and beyond the "voluntary support" that I am benefitting soley from and he thinks should come out of "what he owes me" I don't care the bed wasn't that comfortable he was the one who wanted it and the table too, I hated it, so they really are no great losses to me other than somewhere else for me to sleep, but that too will come. He has take ALL personal belongings, magazines from the last eternity, clothing, shoes, jewelry, yearbooks from high school, books about business, he truly has taken his whole life that he cares about. He has told me before that the rest is mine, I know that means except his tools, so I had the lock on the garage changed so that he cannot access that since that is the only key that he wouldn't voluntarily give back. The bed and the table were moved to a storage unit.

Go out in the garage and take pictures of everything. Open up tool boxes and take pictures. Take pictures of lawn equipment. Just because he's than "man" doesn't mean he automatically gets this stuff. AND there is a TON of money in tools and lawn equipment. A lot more than the "tools" in my kitchen. If you do divorce, you need documentation of what is there so that he doesn't low ball the value.

I was told to take pictures of everything in the house just in case he sneaked in and took things.

I would consider finding a different lawyer. To this point, you husband has demonstrated that he has no interest in being an active part of your children's lives. The court will not look well on this. There are many FATHERS here who have sole custody. It is NOT unreasonable to think that you may be able to retain full custody. When it came to finding a lawyer, I wasn't so concerned if he was a Christian. I wanted someone who would represent ME, fight for ME, listen to ME. You need someone who hears you and does he very best to bring about your desires.

I really am impressed with how well you have prepared yourself.

I am sorry you haven't had more help here. Usually a call out on the board is all that is needed. I'll bump my call out.

SS is right. Get another lawyer. You want one who says, "I will do my very best to get you full legal custody with limited visitation." You have to aim high. Hang in there.

Say

Hey KLB,

I am NO expert on Plan B letters, but so please just take my words and let's check with others, WAY MORE knowledgeable.

For me, I needed to be in the mindset that WH didn't know a thing or care about the suffering he was causing. So I would take that out. I would also take out about the selfish poor financial decisions, for me and remember I am NO expert, this is a disrespectful judgement.

What about this?
You mention the part about emotional needs, does he know about them? If not, keep that part out, you aren't trying to educate him, but express your love for him, how his affair has affected your family, the destruction it's caused, that there is a path back to home, etc.

Vets, what do you think?

Below are my humble suggestions, in italics. I hope this helps you polish this up. Consider revising anything that speaks of how he feels. You can't know this. You repeat a number of times that he must end contact with HER--you don't need to do this over and over again. One succint paragraph stating what he would need to do to gain access to you is enough.

ok, everything was great until we got here:


rewrite to: I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know about the enormous suffering the children and I have endured because of your adultery. It is too painful to be around you while you are continuing your affair. I still love you, but cannot see you under these conditions. It is causing my remaining love for you to erode and I must protect that. This separation is a necessity to preserve my love for you and, and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery! It is in no means meant as a punishment.



As soon as you are willing to permanently end your affair, severe all contact, and are willing to establish a plan for recover, then and only then we can discuss our future together.



I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then, there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend like you had been for so many years. I want to be there to encourage and watch you achieve your dreams and goals, and have you experience the joy of seeing our children and I achieve our goals and dreams too. There are so many beautiful and good things about our marriage and family.------------------->take this out, it is PREACHING--------> I pray that you will listen to the Holy Spirit who lives in you and not turn your back on its leading.

I loved you when we married, and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in your affair.

You did good, kb! The only other suggestion I would make is to cut it down by a third. You are speaking to a detached, fogged out person so shorter is better.

Thank you all for your suggestions so far, I made many changes, but am still not satisfied with the following paragraph it sounds like a bit too much and almost I don't know, here see what you think:
I think the problem is there is SOOOO much that I want to say that would "trigger" things that he has said in the past few weeks and months, but I think I trying to cram in too much.
Also am I supposed to replace the Her words with her name? I really don't want to do that since her name is my name!

Well, I have successfully made it through another day to bedtime! I started my masters classes today and had 2 papers due today! Nothing like easing into things, I guess this is no different than life, jump in with both feet or don't jump in!
Okay, so I am working on my Plan B revisions, but I don't know what is next, is there another step or is it just everyday moving forward and praying for the pain to dull and trying to find ways to be happy alone indefinitely now? I mean I just don't know what I should be doing, I am still praying for my WH and this OW and her family. I am a little afraid to ask, but want to know: what are the statistics of marriages that go to plan B that then do get to recovery vs go on to divorce? How should I be preparing myself now? I guess you all have noticed I am not to strong in the patience/sitting still department!
I had a rough day with my family, they all but threw a party to celebrate the fact that I am no longer entertaining my WH and that it looks as if it is final and that he is gone permanently, I know they love me and want what is best, but they aren't Christians and don't understand about forgiveness and God's best, SO I guess I am looking for a dose of hope/reality check whichever it is so that I can know. I still miss my husband, but I know that I am going to be okay alone with the children, but would love to have my best friend and companion back, but know that I don't need it. I vasilate on these, I know that I will be okay and that God will refine me and is refining me and that I will successfully make it to the other side of this journey either way, but the human me would just like a hint of the future. Does he repent or does he remain trapped in his sin, stay tuned for the rest of the story! You know that old radio guy that always says and now you know...the rest of the story.
Have a great night!

The chances of you being back with your husband are greater than being apart. You just need to hang in there and make a nice life in the meantime. Affairs almost always end, and even though it seems like they won't, they still do.

Your family loves you and wants to protect you. They are behaving just like everyone who hasn't been through this. So love them, and appreciate what they are trying to do.

Thank you Believer, I really needed a kind encouraging word. My first day back at college yesterday was intense, and the kids are having a very hard time with him being totally gone, they miss their dad, understandably eventhough he was an a** for the past year he was still here and it was comforting, then my parents, it was just a long and lonely day!

I think if we could get out to get things done without having to be a burden to anyone it would help enormously with my self esteem. I know people care about us and want to help, but it would be nice if I had my own car to be able to care for us as needed! BUT, all good things come to those who wait patiently upon the Lord, and I know that he will return over and above what the locusts ate (my car, my bed, my husband, my dining room table and chairs....) I am just naming them so I can look back and see later how silly and meaningless it really is when I can think straight.

I find it amazing how we as individuals change in a lifetime. I know for me the changes in the past year are so huge, I can't even believe it. I look in the mirror and see such a different person staring back, I just need to figure out how to love her and make her happy. Right now I really need to focus on my temper, I have such a short fuse with the frustrations of everyday, I need to find something that I love to make me happy and take the edge off of the sadness and loss.

Hi klb,

You love your kids and you love the Lord. That is a pretty full life. I don't know how anyone gets through this pain without a strong faith and a close personal relationship with Christ. Your masters program should occupy your mind for long stretches of time and your children will make you laugh.

We are all changed through the grief of infidelity. I have watched the journeys of many on these forums throughout the past year. Many change for the better. Some become bitter and cynical whether their marriage is recovered or not. The road is the same but the journey is intensely personal.

I "celebrate" today my own milestone. Our D-day was one year ago today. I say celebrate because I find no sorrow in the date itself. It was the turning point in our marriage and the beginning of a better me. The face I saw in the mirror this morning will never be the same as it was one year ago because I am forever changed. So is my FWH. So is our marriage but different in our case has become better.

I pray that for you in one year but I am confident that whether your marriage is intact or not, you will be a better person. A better mom. I sense a very strong person seeking God's will for your life. Your children will follow your lead.

Say

I would agree!

I would say that her lawyer is not the biggest factor here...BUT, he should be changed if there is a question as to competence. If you let me know your location in PA, I may be able to offer you a suggestion.

As far as full custody, that is a long shot absent neglect or abuse. The 50/50 split does NOT sound consistent with what is normally handed out in these cases. I would consult with another attorney...preferably a woman, to get her feedback.

As has already been suggested, start keeping a very detailed log of times with each parent, missed visits, school issues, doctor visits, etc. Be thorough and start this now...it will be invaluable later.

Best of luck.

We got full custody of my FWH's children about twelve years ago in PA. Similiar situation. FWH left the marital home with the children and his xw was content to let him do all of the care for many months until the divorce was final and I entered the picture. By that time the damage had been done. FWH had documented the general lack of concern (missed visitation, weeks with no contact) and he got full legal custody.

Our attorney never blinked an eye when we told him that was what we wanted. It was not an easy task but at least we went into it knowing that our attorney thought he could do it.

Say

I am in Reading, PA

I am just east of Pittsburgh but we travel your way often to see our new grandson.

really where are they?
I went to IUP and have family in Hollsopple (just outside of Johnstown)

Small world on MB. (:

Yes, it truly is a small world!

I am trying very hard to find happiness and enjoy my children and do all the things that everyone has suggested, but I am really about to blow! I love my children, but I am so sick and tired of all the whining and laziness! Everytime we try to sit down to do school they have some excuse of what they need to do, then I start to yell and holler and I have just absolutely had it!!!! No one even cares one bit that I am trying or that I need help. All chores have stopped, no one even tries at all anymore. All forward momentum has stopped! I am getting to the exasperation point. I can't get to the grocery store, I can't get away from them (my family nor friends haven't been willing/able to babysit since H left), I love them and want to be a good mom, but I have not had ANY time alone to cry vent or deal with the emotions of my H's choices and leaving. I am just stuffing it all inside and I don't know what to do, oh yeah and since I don't have a car I had to stop counseling, so I don't even have that all I have is this board, and I know that this is for support not counseling and fixing me!

I really just want one day to just go smoothly and not think about my H and his choices and suffer the consequences of his actions! I hope that he starts suffering/reaping the consequences of his choices and actions soon. I mean really he has no obligations and responsibilities except to put $500 a week into our account. He has seen his kids 3 times and has called them 2 times in 10 weeks!!!!! How can anyone be that selfish, heartless, cruel and stupid!!!!!!!!! I just don't understand any of this. I want so badly to hate him, and even though I say these things I can't make myself hate him, I get angry and then all I feel is just grief and overwhelming sorrow for my H, for the loss of my best friend, and the consequences that we are all paying, except him, for his actions!
I know that someday he will have to pay/stand in judgement for his choices, but it just seems so unfair. Not that life ever is, but...
I JUST WANT TO FEEL AGAIN, TO FEEL HAPPY AT SOMETHING, REAL NOT FAKE OR STAGED HAPPINESS!!!!!!

When does this numb nothing feeling go away?

Some days I feel as if I am moving on and doing good and then others it is as if this horrible crushing weight is on me and I don't know if I can make it through another minute let alone another day or possibly lifetime!!!!

First off, calm down. I understand your frustration but yelling at your kids is only going to make this worse. Their world has been turned upside too...yet, you are the one that needs to hold it all together for them.

Call social services, a friend, a family member. Get some help...and stop yelling. This is not your children's fault and should not be taken out on them in any way.

{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}


I understand everything you have said. You are not alone. You will get through this. There will come a time when your smile is real again and your laugh isn't forced.

I wish I could tell you it will be soon. But the truth is, it is a ways off.

But Plan B will help you get there because you will not deal with the daily drama of affairland.

(((KLB)))

This may very well be the hardest thing you will ever deal with in your life. You do not go through this trial quickly or easily. I cannot even imagine your pain. The numbness and grief of betrayal stayed with me for about six months before I even started to pull out of it and my H never saw or spoke to OW after I found out and confronted him.

These forums are for support but you will also get very good counsel here. We have all been through varying degrees of what you are going through and although the outcomes have also been varied, you can read many success stories. All marriages have not been restored but most have come through as a better person thanks to MB and the friends on this forum.
Keep doing what you are doing KLB in the best way that you can right now. Remember that your little ones are as confused and unhappy as you are but they are little. Sometimes it sucks to be big. Come here to vent and ask questions. Cry when they sleep. Keep praying. Know that you have friends.

Say

Do you listen to worship music? Do you like to dance? Do you like bubble baths? Do you like walks? What helps you relax?

Whatever it is, do it. Fill up the bath tub after the kids go to bed, light some candles and soak for awhile, if you enjoy that.

Crank up some worship music and sing and dance before the Lord. It is an amazing experience that is soley between you and the Lord.

Can you ask a neighbor (if you have one you trust) to watch the kids for 30 minutes while you take a walk alone?

Is there a local homeschool teen that could come and watch the kids for you? Before my oldest were teens, I had one come over and I ran errands on that day. We homeschooled 4 days a week, and the off day was my grocery/errand day.


Be creative in finding help for yourself.

I am sorry you feel so alone. I had some very close friends who were here for me daily. They literally saved me at times.

Are there 2-3 women that you can ask for help. If you asked 2-3 women if they would be willing to rotate helping you once a week, then each woman would only have to commit 1 day every 2 or 3 weeks.

Does your church have a women's ministry leader that you can go to and express your need or the pastor's wife? They may know of a few women (maybe older ladies) who would be willing to help.

Are you involved in a homeschool group or co-op? Most of my help came from my homeschooling friends.

You are carrying a heavy burden right now. You need some people to come along side of you and help carry you through. THAT is what the body of Christ is all about.

As far as your children are concerned.

Just be the best mom you can be. It is OK to stop schooling right now. There are more important lessons for your children. Start summer break or plan a new summer schedule that is lighter on you but keeps them somewhat busy.

Ideas...

books on tape
educational computer programs
Nest Bible or History movies & activity books
Explode the Code workbooks
math drill books on concepts they already know (Modern Curriculum Press has some good cheap ones)
Bible/handwriting copywork from A Reason for Writing
a checklist with an exercise routine (10 sit ups, 5 pushups, 25 jumping jacks, and so forth)
an exercise video they can follow along to
Discovery Toys Thinking Tiles
Pattern Blocks

When I was teaching my older 3 and had a preschooler and toddler running around, I had stations set up that they rotated through. For example, at a small table I had a basket with activities they could do during the 30 minutes they were assigned to that table (puzzles, coloring, playdough, etc.) Then they would rotate to floor play and use they toys in that area (wooden blocks, Brio train, matchbox cars), then they moved to the audiocassette player and listened to books on tape, Bible stories or songs (the Donut Man is great), then they had an exercise video, and so forth.

I made them a list so that they would know where to go next. I set the timer for 30 minutes and they were off. I tried to mix it up so that 30 minutes were on their own (while I worked w/ an older sibling), then 30 minutes interacting with me or very close by (the small "quiet" table was next to our school table).

My toddler was in a playpen for 30 minutes in the same room with his oldest sibling, while I worked with someone else. Then he was in the room with me on the floor playing. Then he was in a high chair next to me eating Cheerios while I was teaching someone else.

I'm just trying to share some ideas with you. If you want me to be more specific to your particular situation, share more with me about how you "do" school.

Some ideas for discipline...

Right now your emotions are running so high that it is very easy to react to their behavior in a stronger way than usual. So it is even more important to have a PLAN or SYSTEM in your discipline.

Here are some ideas that I've used or have been shared with me by other homeschooling moms (we can be VERY creative):

**Popcycle sticks with daily responsibilities (school & chores) written on them). Each child (of reasonable age) has a cup with these sticks. When they complete the task the move the stick the their "finished" cup. This is very simple to implement and very inexpensive. You could also add a few sticks that are marked with black marker. Whenever they are disobedient or disrespectful, move one of those sticks. If all 3 get moved, then they lose privileges. (I pay my kids 50 cents a day. They lose that as well as computer/phone/videos).

**Daily responsibility checklist.

**Give each child a cup with 10 dimes in it. Everytime they are disobedient or disrepectful, they lose a dime. They keep whatever they have left in their cups at the end of the day.

**Each child has a set of 4 small hooks hanging on the wall. Hook #1 has task cards hanging on it. These are cards that have a picture and words that described the task. Hook #2 is empty and is where they place the cards when they complete the tasks. Hook #3 has 3 red "warning" cards and 2 black lose privileges cards (lose privileges for the day & lose privileges for the week). Hook #4 has reward cards on them...good behavior cards, 50 cent cards, & other rewards I've decided on. If they misbehave, they must move a warning ticket to their rewards hook. If they end up "black carded", they lose the rewards for that day (or week, if it gets that far). This is a system I designed and we love it. There's a bit more to it, but that might be enough to get your creative juices flowing.


You need some kind of simple system so that you are no longer reacting. You need to know ahead of time what discipline to give.

I also have discipline cards for our hooks for: time out on bed, writing assignment, draw a chore out of the chore jar, 50 cent fine...

Once you get a system set up, follow through is the key.

Slow down on you school, and focus on really connecting with your kids and training them up to be helpful, responsible, and caring.

Then you can start back with a more academic load next year.

I'm not saying let them run free all day. We almost always do some kind of school during the summer. Kids with nothing to do, only get bored and irritate each other.

Just keep it simple for now.

Another idea...

put a checklist on their door of what they should do before coming to breakfast...

make bed
wash face & hands
brush teeth
comb hair
get dressed
put pj's away
pray



When my kids were younger, I had a basket that I placed any of their belongings in that they left laying around. They had to earn them back by doing 2 chores from the chore jar.

I need to do that one again. They have not been putting their things away very well.

Thank you all, it isn't bad like I am exploding and melting down all the time, but today just pushed my patience a lot. Thank you SunflowerSmile, I really appreciate the suggestions and I will definitely be implementing quite a few of your suggestions. I especially like the popsicle stick idea.

I have been trying to get some help from some of the ladies from the church, but they are all "busy" with their own families, so no one has been able? to help out. I am okay, it's just sometimes I feel trapped and panicky and I need to learn what I like, I am going to try the bath thing, I definitely like the dancing and praise music. I am working on loading my i-pod. I would love to find a way that I could go early in the am when I get up for a jog around the block or something, I have really learned to like taking care of myself, but don't really know how to exercise, my sister is a fanatic, but so busy that they really don't spend any time with us. The frustration is that my parents/family were close to my H and loved him very much, so I totally understand that they are experiencing their own grief and anger and sadness over his choices. Oh enough already!!! Bad tape out okay, now we need to fill me with good thoughts and good things....
Thank you for your help, just keep sending the positives, so that I can keep my focus right! I want to please God and raise my children to please Him and to make them proud of me!! So, this is my plea, for everytime that I start to sink someone PLEASE send me a poem or a verse that will help me lift up. I am trying to memorize John Ch 15 right now, but they say that for each negative it takes 10 positive to counteract it!

Thank you all!

I'm thinking good thoughts for you KLB.

{{{{{{KLB}}}}}} There's a lot of good people giving advice and Plan B, is not my expertise, accept I have done a good job of staying dark....

G-d has plans for you. I'm not good with the quoting of Torah, but I KNOW. That G-d knows the beginning and the end and his plans will not be thwarted.

We have hard lessons to learn for ourselves and as we keep closely to G-d and work to please him along with creating a deeper relationship with Him, one day through our hard work and willingness to be in obedience to G-d, we will be blessed.

Thank you Queenie! You did a fine job summarizing from the Torah/Bible. You know the most interesting thing I have noticed is that we are all in one form or another struggling with our self esteem and identity because of the devastation of our spouses betrayal, but you are right: God's plans will not be thwarted- he tells us in the book of Jeremiah 29:11 " For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and findd me when you seek me with all your heart."
God knows what he has ahead for us Queenie we just need to love one another to the other side of this journey, I look forward to getting to know you more and encouraging you through your dark time too. May you have blessings and peace showered upon you today!

KLB

Morning KLB, I don't know about your sitch as deeply. Hopefully this weekend, I will get to read up on it. In my case this self-esteem and probably my identity was a problem way before the A. For me, when I am really honest with myself, this A was possibly G-ds way of saying ENOUGH. You two are hurting each other and I'm done watching you die inside. I truly believe we loved each other to the best of our ability, but like me, there are DEMONS that live inside my H. If G-d is able to reach my H and WH seeks G-d, I believe with all my heart my H will come home. But that's the ONLY way I think it will happen. G=d hasn't worked this hard on me to let anything happen by way of WH who is a DANGEROUS PERSON to me.

And I was, because I was looking for something, ANYTHING to fill me up.

The ANYTHING as simple as it seems to many, was so NOT obvious to me, but was my RELATIONSHIP with G-d. I have that now and each day I think I might be getting closer to understanding that even if my M doesn't stand a chance, G-d will provide for me in ways I can't even imagine.

Yes, I too look forward to getting to know you better and walking through this horrific time supporting each other.

How true, and how true again! I think God does use things like this to say ENOUGH, and I too have always struggled with liking myself, I have always left what others say about me devastate me, but I am through buying into the lie! I know that God made me and that he made me perfectly for His purposes, and I have been learning in the past 2.5 months to rely on him and his strength and daily provision. It is tough because as humans we want that comfort to be in a present and physical form so often, and now we the ones left behind are forced in a sense to come to the throne of grace and receive our love and mercy from the only everlasting source. I know that God has given me the strength and courage and ability to not only withstand this trial, but to come out of it a totally changed person. I am excited to meet the woman on the other side of this journey/trial, but for now I must be content with slowly building the pieces and seeing what and how God brings forth. I know that blessings await me, whether here on Earth or eternally in heaven, it is the patience that I struggle with, I want to see and just move to that, okay check, check, check, yeah got it, and keep plugging away. This is so hard because I feel as though the minute I get that step forward and feel secure in that move I get hit with something else and I need to process it, but really I should just say move over I am going this way and not let it make me move.
I guess my other struggle is with the wondering about my H. I wonder if he is hurting, or struggling, or feeling any pain and unhappiness in his decisions. The man that came here during Plan A visits was a broken and very sad man, but who knows if that was an act too. I want so badly to believe that the many years that we spent together meant something to him, but I know that they weren't special to him, if they were we would not be where we are, so enough wallowing in the wondering. I am changing my record to happy things!

So what do you do for fun/ to change your tape to happy things? What gets you through?

KLB,

I asked you earlier, but you didn't answer. So, I'll ask again because I think it is important.

Have you approached your church's women's ministry or pastor's wife or homeschool support group, shared your need, and asked for their help.

Your load is very heavy right now and it sounds like you have practical support.

I suggest you contact the above groups and ask if there are ladies who would be willing to help you.

The ladies of my church brought me dinner for 2 weeks straight and offered to continue to bring it a few times a week for an extended time (like 2-3 times a week for a couple months).

My homeschool friends took my children for an entire day OFTEN.

One friend offered to homeschool my children if I needed the extra support.

My friends practically did my son's birthday party for me because when they came to drop off their children, I was crashing in a MAJOR way. Four friends stayed and just took over. It was beautiful, as I think back on it now. Brings tears to my eyes.

If someone from my church or homeschool group approached me today and asked for help, I would be there for them in a heartbeat...even if I didn't know them well or didn't "like" them all that much.

You have to make your SPECIFIC need know though. My friends were intuitive and knew me and what I needed. But that is often not the case.

Tell them you need help with your children so that you can get to the grocery and run errands, and that you need help with transportation, and whatever else you think of.


You cannot do this alone.

Do you have supportive family nearby? I can't remember.

I apologize Sunflower, I thought I answered you, but when I looked back I must not have! Sorry. As to the call out for help, I did ask and church has been helping with transportation to church on Wed and Sunday, and in 3mos I have only missed 1time. Also, money and gift cards have sporadically appeared and have been very important, but as far as the helping with the house and the children I keep getting the "busy" response from people, they are willing to, but no follow through. The church deacons have been trying to get organized to find me a car and come to help with some of the repairs that are much needed to the house to make things better and easier and in some cases safer.

My parents are close, but they have been hesitant to take the children because they live next door to my in-laws(they attend the same church too, and haven't spoken or acknowledged my parents since H left) and the children nor I want to see them because of their stand on my H's situation and choices, "they are so happy for him that he has found his true love and this is a part of his sacred journey and if I ever loved him that I will set him free and be happy for him and open my heart to the possibilities and allow myself to be loved again and that the chi and sacred spirits would send someone to love me and the children." YUCKO!!! Tell me that isn't quaint! So, it has made my parents very uncomfortable right now, so they do things together with us, but not alone overnight at their house. Also things have been crazy because my middle sister is due any day (lives in NC and we are in PA) and both my parents work full time, so I think they feel their plates are full.
I do have one family the family that I plan to use as the intermediaries for Plan B who has been coming with their teenage boys to help with yardwork and things, and doing picnics and things with us. I can't seem to get a commitment for help from anyone else. I am hoping when school ends it will change. As for the homeschool group this was our first year with them and didn't really get too close with anyone because of all this mess.

I think that sums it all up at this point, but part of me wonders if being alone right now isn't where God wants me? I think that I have some work to do alone with the kids and me, as far as believing I am able to do more by myself and not codependent on anyone, but that is just a thought. I totally agree that I need a support net and I have one emotionally and spiritually, and I know that I will get through this valley, but somedays are just so hard and frustrating!

Thank you for your suggestions, when I meet with the pastor again I will bring up some specific areas of need so they will have a better idea. I know that I tend to think that people can just see and know what I need, kinda selfish and I see the error in that thinking!

Okay, here's the latest in my journey.....
Friday, received a phone call from the Dr's office that did my surgery in Jan. (the day my WH supposedly quit his job) they informed me that the insurance company contacted them and the anesthesiologist and the surgical center and demanded that they return the payment that they had each received for my surgery! They said that I didn't have coverage then because my WH was "terminated" 2 days prior, so there was no coverage from that day forward, so all told with that call I am now up to $3100 just for that day, and there are other Dr's involved that I haven't heard from yet!
The lady from billing office of Dr's office asked if I was okay and what was going on because I have been a patient in this office for several years and she was concerned, I explained briefly what was going on and she asked how WH "lost his job" I said that he told me he quit on Jan 11th, and she told me according to the insurance company he was "terminated" on the 9th of Jan. I said that I was informed from another person from his old place of employment that the OW and my WH were caught in a compromising position while he was supposed to be on duty and teaching a class... She said that I should contact a good lawyer because I have grounds for a civil suit against OW for these medical bills too because she was involved in and part of why he was fired and she wasn't fired (at that time, she was fired, but only about a month ago, and it was technically not for this reason), So I have no idea what to do?
Then today I looked in my joint acct where WH deposits support payment and it says there is a transfer pending for $1000 my support is only $500, and the only other acct my WH has at that bank is his line of credit against the house that the children and I are living in, and must be paid off before/or with the sale of the house (which I was trying to see if I could do) increasing the ammount of debt that will have to be split, and I don't know why he put in that ammount?
Oh yeah, and my Plan B intermediaries quit on me today. They said that they have tried to contact my WH and he won't return their calls, so they feel that they aren't good candidates for this and they don't want to try anymore. They feel that any and all contact should at this point come through the lawyer, well I can't afford that, so now what.
I am still trying to refine Plan B letter, but had verbally told WH that I would not contact him anymore and that someone else would be functioning as an intermediary in case of an emergency or something urgent financially. I am trusting in God, but truly have no idea what to do, especially about the $1000. I definitly don't want to use it and then owe more debt! I would rather do without and bring it up at the support hearing next month, but I am not sure what the best course of action is, so PLEASE someone help me! I am okay, calm I mean, but just want to do the best/right thing!!!!!! I want my word to mean something and don't want to contact him, but feel I need some answers, but would be content if told to just wait, because I see and know that God hasn't left me down so far, and I am definitely going the distance on his team!!!

Well they certainly don't make things easy on you do they.

Do you have someone else in mind who can be an intermediary?

Do you have a lawyer, have you talked to them about this?

I checked into getting my WH off my bank account where he deposits the money. I can't get him off without his signature. Like that will happen. What I did though was open another account in that bank and keep a SMALL amount of money in our joint account. That way when/if WH makes deposits, he only knows about that account.

DO NOT CONTACT HIM. Stay dark.... I have NO CLUE what he is thinking, but mine is muking with the money as well and I'm wondering if this isn't a common thing for them to break us. But TOGETHER we can get through this and post our frustrations on here.

Have you talked to the people who are demanding payment?

I recall someone mentioning about suing the OW for the medical bill, but it seems that that post is deleted. I will be very surprised if she can obtain any type of judgment against the OW for her medical bills. There seems to lack foreseeability and proximate cause for her to win any civil case against the OW. For example, while drunk, I drove my car, hit an electric poll which was located in front of your house and it fell on your house breaking your roof and at that time, you were taking a bath and the electric poll caused you to be electrocuted. As a result, you’re hospitalized and end up owing $$$ in medical bills. You sue me, but you will probably only able to collect the cost to repair your roof and not the medical bills, because your ending up injured, in the eyes of the court, was probably not foreseeable due to my negligence, thus lacking proximate causation, also known as legal causation. It is simply too remote and unforeseeable that my negligence will cause you to be electrocuted and owing medical bills. There is probably no liability due to the unforeseeability and unusual consequences of the defendant’s acts. I hope my (attempted) explanation make sense.

With that being said, it might still worth exploring by talking to a civil attorney who’s being paid on a contingency fee basis only meaning he gets paid a fraction of your win if there is ever a win. It will cost her nothing tangible to explore this other than her time and energy.

Klbenfield, I am sorry that this is happening to you. Based on what you have written so far, chances are, his affair will end eventually. The question you need to answer is, was he a very good father, husband, provider, and caregiver before his affair? If the answers are not all “yes,” do you really want him back after all he has put you through? If the answer is still yes, you need to really ask yourself why. These are questions that only you can answer.

((((((((((klbenfield))))))))))

Okay, here is today's latest, as you know my WH moved OW about 8 blocks at most up the road it is just off the main road to the grocery store, church, the bank and well you get the point everything. Today, again, on my way home from church, there they were coming out of the convenience store with candy and snacks and sodas and kissing and laughing while my kids are upset because we have to scrimp and save everything to try to pay the bills because we have NO car or savings or cushion besides the emergency money for the bills if he stops paying or pulls an idiot like Friday with the support money! I again fell apart because here I am asking for rides to the dr, the bank, the grocery store, and struggling to get help from anywhere and I really want to just sell everything and pack up a U-haul and run away! I seem to get some wobbly legs under me and then one more thing, and I feel like my prayers are in vain, so I really don't know what to do. I feel like I have no friends who are here for me, just those that pray, not that those aren't important, but some tangible physical love and kindness would be nice, but I guess that isn't what God has for me right now, and I know that he knows best.

As for your questions Restitution: yes, before this he was as good a husband, father as any I know. Sure we had our flaws and problems, and I am not naieve enough to think that we would have a perfect life free from problems, but I thought that we had had our fair share for a while, and NEVER thought that I would have to be where I am, I NEVER thought that he would be unfaithful and walk out and not look back for even the children! Not that I want him to take them or even have them over there with that woman who's own daughter talks with a filthy mouth! But to not even try really try for them, it just saddens me so much. As for why would I want him back? Truly at this time I can't say that I do, I know that is what God's best would be is to see our marriage restored, but my WH is choosing to continue to sin against God and his family, so really there isn't anything to question or see at this time. I would never be able to "take him back" if there wasn't a true and lasting remorseful change and only time would show that! If he doesn't repent and go back to his primary relationship...that with his heavenly Father, then there really will never be a chance at restoration with me. That being said, it is a very sad and lonely place that I find myself. I have the Lord and I have my children, but as for adult company, it is virtually non-existent. I have you all online and I have my college, but that too is online!
It just hurts so much to see him out and going out and having fun and laughing and feeling no pain or sufferring no consequences, and the children and I have nothing, no one and are alone and unable to go anywhere! I am just so frustrated and truly angry at that part of it.
I don't understand all of this at all!

Okay, it has been several hours since I last posted, and I have spent that time putting my children to bed and praying with them and alone, I spent some time on my school work and I am proud to say that I completed all 6 of my papers and posted them ON TIME to my teacher!!! YEAH!!! This is a huge accomplishment for me, I have been feeling so beaten down emotionally by my WH's comments about me that I was truly afraid that I was going to fail, but again God held me up and didn't let my enemies get me!

I am struggling to "in the moment" feel or see the Lord's provision and blessing, but after a good vent and cry I am able to pray and reflect and see how he has truly been blessing and changing me. I just pray for the time to come that I will be able to hold my head high and proud and not be afraid or saddened by the loss of my H to his sinful, selfish choices. I know that I did all I could to love him, and he chose to sin and betray me, it doesn't make it hurt any less, but it sure does help me with the self hatred that I have felt in the last three months. I know that I did the best and am doing my best even now to be loving and steadfast and faithful. I am also doing my best to let my H go and to move on and heal and be okay alone. I miss him terribly, mostly because I feel so lonely and tired, I could really use some help and a break from the children, and some time to grieve alone, but my job is here and God has given me this time for a reason. Now I just need to figure out what my lessons are and walk one step at a time daily forward.

I am not sure though what I should be praying for my husband at this point, I would love some insight, today when I saw him he looked healthy and happy, so my prayers that he would not be sleeping and that the Holy Spirit's conviction would be strong and swift doesn't seem like the right thing, so please help me. I really do want to make Godly choices.

If things are coming fast and furious does that mean that it is going to end/slow down soon?!?!?!?
I feel as though everytime I turn around I am slapped with more garbage! Today my lawyer contacted me to touch base about some of my WH's real estate, it seems that even though they (WH and FinL) have been warned that it would be fraud with jail time to sell their real estate withholdings without my interests being represented. It seems that they just don't care and tried to go through with one anyway, so I had to deal with all of that today. I just want some peace. Yesterday I had to see him and her out and happy and loveydovey and now today I am slammed with more bills and financial garbage.
Truly, WHEN DOES THE CONSEQUENCES SIDE CATCH UP WITH HIM?!?!??? I am so tired of all of this I just want to scream!
As for the medical bills, I am trying to get a statement as to how WH lost his job for court so that I can prove that I was lied to this whole time, then the lawyer feels that the judge will make him liable for the incurred medical expenses since they weren't emergency items, had I have known I would have waited on those visits and not been negligent.
Then, I had a letter on the door from the assisted living home next door that they are interested in purchasing my home from me and they are not even willing to pay what I owe on it, so there goes that, and I thought that was God opening a door for me to move and get away from being so close to THEM and having to bump into them or alter my whole life. I really hate this and want to know when the nightmare is going to end! Does anyone know when and if it is going to end? I know you really don't, can only speculate based on averages, but looking at them together yesterday they sure looked happy and he didn't look the least bit upset or worried or stressed over the hurt and devastation he has caused any of us!

KLB,

My boss is pretty much overlooking my actions right now. I can't read and concentrate, but I am getting the disgusting jist and pain you are in.

{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}}

I promise I will be back tonight and read through. I am going through the same thing with WH withholding all the money. I don't have any answers, just a hug and special prayers that G-d will keep you in his shadows a little closer right now.

I know how hard and confusing and scary this is. You are doing amazing and have so much support on here.

I have thought of you often too this weekend and have been praying for you Queenie. I pray that God will bless us for our faithfulness and hide us in the shadow of his wings!

((((((((KLB))))))))

I'm sorry you had to see them together. I'm sure that caused you great pain.

Truth is, there will be many ups and downs. You are going to have things thrown at you. That's why you need a good lawyer who will FIGHT for you and your children.

Your WS needs to know that he cannot bully you and steal from you and your children. He needs to know that you will fight back. Your lawyer needs to act on this immediately and aggressively. Find out what can be done. If they can be arrested, have them arrested.

He is stealing from your children, for goodness sakes! Do NOT stand for this!!

I would sock it to him at this point, through your lawyer, of course.

Have you found another intermediary?

If not, brainstorm some ideas here. They don't have to be someone you are really close to as much as someone who will do what is needed.

Because the settlement company didn't actually go through with the closing there is nothing legally/criminally that can be done. However, they came back with an offer that my WH's portion of the closing would be escrowed. I don't know till when or what, but my lawyer feels that this is the reasonable thing to do.

This is the second time that I have seen them out in public, I just cannot believe that all this is happening and that my H is acting like this, it is as if I am the one that screwed up and betrayed him! I know you cannot be logical or rational with a wayward, but I just want to smack him silly!! I feel sorry for the day that the Lord has his way with him and that the scales fall from his eyes to all that he has done! I am just so sad that I physically hurt.

How do I pray for him, ForeverHers do you have any wisdom? I am so tired yet cannot sleep so I lay awake reading scripture and praying then I am so tired during the day. I am hanging in there and being as strong as I am able, but part of me feels like it is dying, my hope, I so want(ed) to believe that this was a nightmare that would end happily! I don't know if that is to be with my marriage, and that is just so sad, I MEANT till death......

No, I haven't found another intermediary. Right now my lawyer is handling things. I don't even know who to ask. I don't really have anyone. He won't talk to anyone who calls! All of our friends from church don't want to be in the middle/ want to deal with someone who is so lost in themselves and their sin. I understand, but it still hurts and is frustrating!

(((KLB)))

I just caught up on your thread and my heart goes out to you and your children. I understand your pain, I've been there too. I remember the same desperation wondering when God was going to step in and fix this! I ended up losing everything, but in the end my husband came home. We are recovered now and he is a full-time Bible school student. Four years ago when this was happening, I would have never believed it. He walked away from God, me and his family and "seemed" like he was having a good ole time while he was doing it.

The truth was however, that he was tormented the whole time he was away because he KNEW deep in his heart that what he was doing was wrong. I had lots of people praying for him, that God would break him. There's a funny story about that by the way, if you read my thread.

Just wanted you to know that I'm praying for you and the restoration of your family.

PM thank you for your encouragement and for your prayers. I have really been struggling with the why's for all of this. I need to sit and really write my/our story because I think it would be a very healing thing. I struggle wanting to know if this is really about me, which I really believe that it isn't I just need to stand strong and pray and perservere. I am working on me and I pray that my WH will listen and hear God calling him back. I have been having a lot of trouble with anxiety attacks at night and haven't been able to sleep, I have been very burdened to pray for my WH, so I do, but am not too sure how to effectively pray for him.
I read and cried at your thread. Thank you for being honest and brave and sharing your story. I pray that I can be brave and strong for my children and stand firm for God, I know that he will never leave me or forsake me, but sometimes Satan just hurts so bad that I want to just make it stop. Sometimes in the mornings I have woken up and my chest hurts so badly like something was crushing it, but I know that it is just the sadness of all the bad choices my WH is making, but that I need to somehow find a way to be happy truly happy, there are days that I really am, but then something will happen again and it will take days for me to get back on my feet! I don't want to be that way. I just want my roots to hold me fast and then the wind can come and I will sway but never fall again!
Thanks PM your story touched me, thank you for sharing and praying.
Love,
KLB

You're quite welcome sweetie. I am leaving town at 3:00 a.m. as my husband and I are traveling to South Carolina to see our youngest son graduate from basic training. I will be out of touch for a few days but I will keep you and yours on my heart and in my prayers.

Keep posting, it'll help. There are lots of good people here to help you through this.

How are you today Kilbenfield? Just wanted to let you know that I am praying for you and your little ones and your marriage. Hang tough and keep praying. You need to be strong.

Keep posting.

Say

Thank you SayNoMore, I am having a really tough day. Neither of my kids will sit down for school, they are both burnt out and tired and I understand, but if they were in a public school they would have to just suck it up and do it, and I am doing that in my life everyday! I don't want any of what I have, but that is what I have CRAP just CRAP, and that is what I am going to have for a while, but I get up everyday and try, that is all I am expecting of them. Yes, it sucks majorly, but it isn't my fault their dad chose to walk away and abandon them I am still here, but NO ONE seems to see that or care! All anyone cares about is what they lost, but the truth is maybe they never had it anyway!

I just wish I could stop the yo-yo ride I am on. He is gone, why can't I just stop crying and pick up and move on too! He doesn't care about me or the kids or the house or the bills or anything, so why can't I just turn it all off too? Why do I have to hurt so bad, and I didn't do anything wrong, yet I am the only one suffering?

My mom and dad want to take the kids and I away from the 19-29th of June down to NC to see my sister and her new baby, but I am torn, I want to go, but that is a long time to be away from the house and things. Also, we would all be staying with my sister and her family, she is having a new baby a one year old and her husband then you add 3 more adults and 3 more kids for 10 days, I think that is a bit much and a bit too long. So, I don't know what to do.

On the real estate front, the offer on my house was $20,000 less than we paid for it and $10,000 less than we owe without the home equity line that my WH took against the house so that is another $35,000, so needless to say that is a dead issue. The property that my WH and FIL sold didn't settle because of me, they cannot settle on anything without my approval and they didn't contact my lawyer till 3 hours before settlement and I still haven't seen any documents from anyone, so I guess that will be a dead deal too!

I am so frustrated with everything, I just need to get refocused on everything. I am struggling with school for my masters, I like it, but with all the emotional upheaval and craziness, I am having a hard time concentrating, so I wonder did I bite off more than I can handle?
I feel like every step forward I try to make that I am pushed back 5 steps! I don't like all this chaos and uncertainty about our future. I am trying to be patient and wait and trust and obey the Lord, but I really don't know what I am waiting or trusting for? I want so badly to believe in miracles and that they can happen to me! I know that God is able, and that he does still do miracles, but I don't know if I am going to see/get a miracle?

One day at a time. I know that it sounds cliche' especially right now but time is the great healer. Every day that you get under your belt, every thing that you accomplish will make things better. Some days you will slide back to square one but others, you will feel very aacomplished.

Your little ones need you. How about taking a one hour break from school and just do something silly. Let them know that it is just a break but it should help. Dance to the Veggie Tales. Show them that you need a break too. Then reaasure them that you love them very much.

If you think you are having a hard time, they have no coping skills. They are children the only life they have ever know has changed so drastically that they don't know which way to turn. IMHO, they are too little to even know appreciation for what you do much less show it. They expect it cause you are their mommy and that is your job.

Keep posting. You need support and I am sorry that you don't have anyone within your church or neighborhood that is willing to give it. You have friends here.

Say

{{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

This is actually easier said than done, but totally doable. Remember, he is SICK. He is out of control, contrary to what we rational people think. He is an ADDICT and just simply doesn't care if you are hurting.

G-d I remember this pain so deep inside and not believing that this is all happening. I hated when people told me it would get better, I didn't think it ever would. But slowly, and I mean slowly, it did.

I am praying for you in G-ds shadows of protection. He is there, I promise you. Your walk with G-d was strong before this, but look at you now. Look how you are seeking him, that's truly what G-d is looking for, our obedience to him.

Immediately, how are you paying your bills affording food?

Great suggestions, I think I will definitely try that tomorrow! We have lots of Veggies to dance to. I have been trying to clean out the chaos and clutter of the home and make it more manageable for me. I know that I should focus on other things, but I just feel I need it freshened and cleaned out for the children and I to be able to handle this big old house. I so want a fresh start for us, but our fresh start has to start here, so since that is the case I want to do the best I can for us here, so I am trying to make it a new home in our old home.

Financially, we are hanging on as best as we can. I have enough money to make it till the support hearing if I have to. I have medicaid and food stamps for the children and I, so food is a non issue except for the getting to the grocery store. There is a convenience store down the street a few blocks, but that only does so much.

I know that you are all right, some days I am doing very well, and know that this will be hard, but that I will make it through and be so much better on the other end. Other days, I know I will make it through, but I just don't really want to, I just miss the old days with my H and I miss him and I don't think I can move another step and I want so badly to call and just hear his voice or just have him hug me and tell me it will all be okay. Today has been one of the other kinds of days, the ones when I just want to go shake him till the scales fall from his eyes and the fog clears and ask what in the world he is doing!!!

I still haven't figured out an intermediary or finished figuring out how to cut down and edit my Plan B letter, but I know that I have said it to him everything that should have been in the letter. I want so badly to do the right things, and I want to believe in miracles for my children and I. That is what I am praying for, for God to bless us and give us a miracle, and in the meantime, I am trying very hard to perservere and stand firm in God.

Today I became an aunt for the second time!!!! YEAH!! My next youngest sister had a little boy this morning at 7:42am. Mommy and baby are doing good. I am so happy for them, but it is such a bittersweet thing, I want so badly to call and share this with my husband, but know that I must stay strong and not call. I am okay with that because the thing that he has become wouldn't care like my H would have.

Well, update, I tried to call WH's best friend today to expose and talk to about his role in helping to hide and continue this affair. BF got very angry that I had the nerve to call him and try to put him in the middle of this, I explained that I was in no way trying to make him angry or put him in the middle, he continued to holler and told me to never call back again. I said I would not, but that I thought it was really sad of him to treat me like that when I had opened my home to him on several occasions to come for dinner and then for him to treat me like this like I was the one who did wrong. I said that he should be ashamed for his role in this and the fact that he continues to be WH's BF. He said not to ever call back and that he is sorry but that he will not be put in the middle and hung up on me.

I also called back to WH's old place of employment to try to speak to his boss regarding the insurance, I spoke with his secretary and she said that she would definitely give them the message again and that she has her own reasons for being frustrated with my WH, but wouldn't elaborate, she did however look up the termination code and it was voluntary resignation due to personal reasons. She said that she would send me a copy of that form. She also said that if he had not resigned that he would have been fired, and said that yes, OW, was not rehired by the new company that has since taken over. I am exhausted, and it is only 10:45am here!

I also had to deal with the bank this morning WH bounced one of his support checks, and I have fees for this in addition to being out the money. Bank told me that the check is being returned to me and that I can take it to his bank and cash it.

Baby has been sick, low grade fevers and diarhea that has made his bottom so sore that it bleeds, I feel for the little guy he doesn't understand what is going on with this let alone the chaos that his entire family is in! Older two are hanging in, but struggling, understandably. News of baby born was bittersweet for them also since we can't go be with my sister! I keep telling them that our time will come that we just need to be patient.

I just so don't get it!!!! I know this is all on him, but it seems as if I am the only one struggling over this, I know he will eventually suffer, but it is so hard to be the one suffering now, but mine will end at some point!

KLB,

I am sorry that you are struggling so much. I really wish I had money to send you or could fix this.

I'm not as bible smart as many others on here, but there are a few things that were told to me that helped a little. This was also sent to me and brought me MUCH comfort.

IN THE STORM

Sometimes life doesn't go like we want it to. How can we worship God when things are hard and seem so wrong?

Sometimes our hard times are complex and drawn out. But no matter what we're going through, God is always working for the good of those who love Him. However, our definition of good and God's definition of good may be completely different and may collide head-on in hard times. our definition of good usually equates to happiness. We want (and even expect) God to make us happy.

But what's good for God? Good for God is when He's working for His glory, or when He's working to make us holy.

Since God is perfect and good, His getting glory is good too. When goodness is glorified, it turns out to be good for all involved.

God also thinks our holiness is a good thing. He cares more about our character than He does about our carefree lives. We may not be able to firugre out what God is doing in the hard times of life. Those answers may not come this side of heaven, but we know God can use the tough times to help us grow.

Giving God our lives during hard times means trusting that He's working for good no matter what - or walking through the process with Him until He brings us to the point where we can believe that.

That means being where we are with Him - crying, mourning, even being angry, and discussing that with Him. Over time, as we continue to seek Him, He'll align our hearts with His by changing our definition of what's good or He'll teach us something about Himself, or He'll simply give us what we need to trust Him even though we don't understand. If we choose not to abandon Him, God will use the hard times to grow a depth in our relationship with Him that wasn't there before.

STEPS OF FAITH

"Lord, I seek refuge in You; never let me be disgraced. In Your justice, rescue and deliver me; listen closely to me and save me. Be a rock of refuge for me, where I can always go. . . . For You are my hope, Lord God" (Psalm 71:1-3,5)

DEEPER WALK

Psalm 46

Thank you Queenie-

Money truly is nothing, I have done without before and am fine with little, it isn't the money that is the problem/concern. It is just the huge sadness that I feel watching someone that I love make such HUGE mistakes that keep taking him farther and farther away from God and his family. I love my H with a love that is totally of God, I hurt for him, knowing that each bad choice he takes, takes him one more step away from God and his goodness and desires for each of us! God doesn't want for any of us to fall or hurt, but how much more does it hurt when it is a child that God sent his son to the cross to die for and that person has accepted God's amazing gift and then decided that it wasn't good enough. Oh the sorrow and shame of it all!

I wish I could just go to him and rescue him, take him away somewhere safe and seclude, and love him and hold him till the fog clears! But, I know that God has to finish his work in him or it won't ever be a true and lasting change, I just pray that my WH doesn't reject God so long that God gives up on him and says fine live that way.
Sure I miss my H in the physical,emotional human way, but mostly anymore I just feel such sorrow of how he has made such a huge mess and is hurting everyone, but thinking that he is doing good and "happy" with all of this! It makes me sad that his parents are thinking that I am the bad person in all of this and that I should just let him go and let him "be happy!" But that isn't what God would want from me, I guess that is why I am sad about Plan A ending like it did and when it did, but I know that he was just sucking off of me too and trying to get all his EN's met from both of us just in the opposite homes. I am just so sad, I pray that I will be able to truly let go if that is what God wants and to move on in His amazing capable strength to a new life with my children.

I completely get what you are saying and aside from the Jesus thoughts because I am Jewish, you and I are so there together.

One thing I realized a few months into this was my WH was completely miserable in his life and he was blaming me and our marriage on all that misery. He believes the OW is going to make him happy. But the reality is, it's NO ONE elses job, but him and G-d to make him happy.

G-d spoke to me and make me realize that I was interfering in things that weren't my business. That WH was caught up in a spiritual battle that I had protected him from all these years and I wasn't G-d and had no right.

As PAINFUL as it is, to this day it's still painful and I still want to soften and fix this for WH, I can't. It's his journey. There are LESSONS in LIFE that is HIS journey to learn and I have to stay out of the way and LET G-D.


Your FAITH and TRUST in G-d is what G-d needs from you and you are doing amazing. I'm so glad you are still posting and being honest about your feelings and struggles. It helps to get it out of our heads and helps other people, like me.

Because today I am in the struggling place of WH getting his consequences. It's so hard, but remember G-d loves your H more than you could ever. And he is working for the good in all of this...

{{{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}}}}}}

kl-

I've read your whole thread.

You've come so far in a very short time!

Plan B is something I never had to do, and for that I am thankful. I just have to encourage you though, because I think your husband is probably going through his own little version of he//, you know? Think about it - he is living with a woman who is willing to sleep with a married man, one she knows is pining away for his family, who is cake-eating between her and his WIFE, and he KNOWS HIS WIFE STILL LOVES HIM - STILL WANTS HIM - AND IS WAITING FOR HIM TO COME TO HIS SENSES. Plus, he gets the wonderful added benefit of having that great teenaged daughter there who is willing to call the mother of his children a wh0re...gee, what a terrific life. Then, he considers that he lost his job for this life. And this once-upon-a-time fantasy that has turned into a train wreck because this OW is really crappy to listen to when she gripes about the fact that all of his MONEY is going to his WIFEY and not to HER when SHE REALLY WANTS IT and what is he going to DO about it nag nag nag nag....that fantasy is withering on the vine, baby. Right now. In REAL TIME, she nags and gripes, and things at HOME LOOK PRETTY NICE right about now. You're seeing the financial collapse happen from the outside looking in - can you just imagine the dialogue on the INSIDE?????



PLUS
He knows you haven't given up on him.
And he hasn't been able to get a fix of you for awhile, so that fantasy of HOME is getting a nice little build-up.
And he wonders what is happening with the kids, because he hasn't called
And YOU haven't broken your word (he thought you would...)
And he knows the last time he saw you, you looked and smelled and felt very nice.


Home sounds

well

good. And safe.



This Plan B does work in many cases. So while you are "wondering" about him, you need to remember that this Plan B thing has its advantages. Yes, he is having money trouble - that is a consequence of his AFFAIR. Yes, he lost his job - a consequence of his AFFAIR. Yes, he is having difficulty selling property and can't contact you - a consequence of his AFFAIR. Yes, he is probably not happy where he is - a consequence of his AFFAIR.

That consequence list is LONG.
It is a hard list to read.
It is harder to LIVE.


That's why Plan B can work in many cases. The consequences come in much more realistically if the WS is made to live in the real world - the fantasy bubble bursts when the AFFAIR is handed to them on a silver platter. You've essentially said, "Okay, here you go. Live it out. Just go, but you can no longer count on me to meet any of your needs. You and your affair are on your own." Soon enough he finds that he actually does want and need you, and the family. Because the WS figures it out when that bubble bursts, and the affair actually DOESN'T meet the expectations. The fantasy - it ISN'T reality. The OW has bad breath, she gripes, and she isn't a sex kitten every night like she said she would be. Her kids behave badly, her house is a mess, and she can't cook. Whatever it is, it ISN'T home.


But you - you ARE home. Despite your faults, you are "home", and somehow this Plan B makes many waywards realize that.


I'm in here with you - praying for you and your marriage. Just so you know!

Schoolbus

Thank you so much Schoolbus! I needed a boost, and I pray that you are right. They looked so happy Sunday at the mini-mart. But I need to focus on me and the kids, but that has been really hard, we are working on cleaning out and trying to make this mess of a house a home, we are trying to figure out how to do all of this alone, and heal our broken hearts! My two older kids dictated their feelings for their dad today into letters for him and we are going to have a fire here tomorrow night and burn them. I am trying to have a "ceremony" for my daughter who is so angry and grieving so much for her dad. I hate to see my children so hurt! I love them so much, but I need to get my head together for keeps, sure there will be rough days, but not everyday, at least that is my goal. Next weekend I am dreading! Saturday is our 11th anniversary and Sunday is Fathers Day!

Thank you again Schoolbus and everyone! I am so grateful for all of you and I thank God for finding this site, so that I could have a safe place to vent and heal!

KLB,

I am in the midst of a few projects that are taking up a lot of my time in the short term. My son is graduating next weekend, and I have much to do to get ready for that.

I will try to check in with you, but wanted you to know why if I don't.

You have some great people helping you, like PM, SB, and Queenie.

Keep focused on working the plans and getting things set up for it.

Thank you SS,
Congrats to the graduate! High school? College?
I am trying to consume myself with cleaning out and college classes and my children, but I am finding myself with way too much time on my hands. Especially times like now, it is Friday evening at 5:37 and normally H and I would take the kids out for pizza or go get take out and a movie and have a family night. Kids are sad that we don't really have this anymore, we try, but is just not the same without daddy!
Trying to come up with new traditions, but there is so much work to do and I find myself easily distracted and trying to deal with my grief and loss through work!
Enjoy graduation and I will look forward to your sage advice. My goal for this weekend is to finish my 3 papers for school and finish editing my Plan B letter, I am still having no luck finding and intermediary. Everyone thinks that I should just be done with him, deal with things on my own or through the lawyer as needed. Fine and dandy, but I already owe him like $1000 for the work he has done to get me $1200 so really I got $200, wow I really made out! Oh yeah and it had to go into escrow because WH wouldn't answer his phone or letters from the lawyer! I am ready for the consequences of his actions any time now to start!
Anyway, I am hanging in there. Talk to you soon.
KLB

It is yet again another Friday night and where do I find myself? Alone yet again. The children have finally gotten a break, they are going to the boat with Nana and Poppa!!! Yeah for them, I am supposed to join them with the baby tomorrow, but honestly this is the first chance that I am getting to be semi-alone to cry and grieve for the changes that are happening, but I really don't want that anymore, a month ago, Yes definitely needed it, but now, now I am just in angry confusion Plan Bish land! I need to finish editing the plan B letter and every time I look at it I want to just vomit! I want to save my marriage, but then I think FOR WHAT? What is possibly left, I understand schoolbus' post about him sufferring just unseen yet, but I'm sorry he has nothing like what the kids and I are suffering his is still hopefully to come! I am so tired and I just want some just deserts! I know that is wrong, but I am tired of begging friends and the little family that I have for help and to cry and holler at them all the time. I want to feel good I want to be happy I want a real life, I want what I was promised! Is that really too much to ask. I was a really good wife I met his SF needs, but none of my ENs are being met! I want my life back! I want my family, but I want a better marriage, eventhough I mistakenly thought I had a good one! I am so angry all I want to do is cry and scream and rant and rave, but to what gain? I feel like nothing I do makes me feel any better!
WHEN WILL THIS NIGHTMARE END AND PEACE BEGIN????? I keep trying to give it to God, and I get temporary relief, but then it comes back stronger than before. It has been 2 weeks in Plan Bish land and I hate this! I feel like I was making progress before, but then he pushed and I panicked, but now it is too late if I want my word to mean anything I have to hold on! I wish that I had one person here that had survived this so they could hug me and tell me in person, that I will be okay, and what to do when I am alone and hurting so bad. I know God is here, but I still feel so alone and afraid! WHY!?!?!?!?!Why........

KLB,

There really is NOTHING that I can say that makes it better. That comes from inside of you, fighting for survival. I am so sorry you are hurting. If I could take it away from you right now and carry it for you, I WOULD.

I truly understand. But this will pass. And G-d will shine down on your for getting through it again.

{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}

I'm here right with you. And I understand that sadness and deep deep pain. You have suffered a severe trauma that has rocked your world. You want it finished NOW, but it just doesn't work that way.

It just doesn't. People say, keep your chin up or you just need time. It's all crap when you hurt like this right now. But you aren't alone. I'm here praying for you, hugging you and wishing thoughts that this will pass fast...

I couldn't have said it better, but I feel like if I could just get it together then maybe I could see the other side sooner. I know that I need to really deal with all of this, but what is there to deal with? He is gone, I am alone, I have to get it together for the kids! I have to gut it up and find some strength to at least pretend that I am happy for them. If I pretend long enough I will maybe start to believe it and feel it, and sometimes it isn't a feeling, but an action, just like love I have to choose to love someone each and every day. I need to choose happiness each and every day, but what brings me happiness. I have no idea, I feel NOTHING, just empty, so how do I find something, what do I do?

Please Send suggestions for how to get through the numb empty scary nothingness. I want to feel again, I want to enjoy all of my children, not just the baby, I feel like he was my last beautiful gift from my H! Please help me!!!!!

Read the post "Be Still".


I would post the link, but I'm not that savvy to the new system yet.

And I'm still dealing with tornado fallout, and the crappola of the OW sighting and torture of last night. See, even after two and a half years post-d-day and recovery, the affair may not stop being a trigger in your life. You're in the early stages, in Plan B. Even after your husband returns home (I'm optimistic for you!), you will have a rollercoaster ride of emotions to deal with, OW woman sightings, triggers, and lots of recovery issues to go through.

For now, you are dealing with the rigorous road of Plan B. You need to focus your mind and eyes on where you are, and try to avoid - however difficult this may be - thoughts of why he is doing this, what he is thinking, why the consequences of life are not as hard on him as you think they ought to be.

What you think SHOULD BE, unfortunately, shall not always come to pass.

It is the very nature of living, kl.


But at this point in your own life, the advice I have for you is to focus inward.

Why?

Because you control only one person in this marriage. YOU.

That is the case, and always has been. If you can learn that, and put it to good use, then you have a greater chance at recovering from this affair. Whether that recovery is with your husband, or without him, if you come to an understanding of yourself, your inner thought processes, and how you control your choices, emotions, reactions, decisions, and future, then at the other end of whatever lies ahead of you


comes a better you.

After all, the one person you KNOW you have to live with for the rest of your life, is you.

Spend this time making sure that you are the very best you that can possibly exist.

IF he chooses to return, he gets a better wife.
IF he chooses to stay gone, he loses out on a spectacular chance at recovering with what could have been a great new marriage.


His choice, and whether or not he makes the right one - you cannot control it.

YOU CAN, HOWEVER, influence it.

With a good Plan B.
With being a great person if Plan B is broken, or if word gets through to him during Plan B about how wonderful you look/feel/changed.

And if at some point you decide to return to contact with him, the changes in yourself will be evident. Because REAL changes simply are evident.

Begin that focus now, while you have the chance. Look at Plan B as YOUR TIME. Not a punishment for you, or for him. But a time to regain your energy, to renew yourself, to preserve what you had in your heart for him. To allow that time for his affair fantasy to run its course (it will, most likely). And for you to make the changes in yourself that YOU have decided YOU want to make. Not for anyone else, but for YOU. Because they make YOU that person you have always known you wanted to be, but got lost somewhere along the way, in the hustle and bustle of trying to be everything to everyone else.

Plan B. Plan Be Still.


SB

I am sorry that you had to see her and relive the pain, I can't even imagine, but I know the pain of seeing her now, so I can only imagine.... What tornado? What state are you in?
I know that this will affect us from now forward, I guess I am still just trying to find my "sealegs" I feel as though I have just continually been bombarded by crap and I am reeling. I don't know that I would be able to stay and really "recover" here if my husband would come home. I think we would have to move to a different town, nearby is fine if he wants to keep his job, but so much would have to change for me, but I am getting ahead of myself!


How do I do this? I mean really, I am not trying to be smart, I am looking for suggestions. I don't have a car, so I am trying to be creative with things to try to find joy and change the sadness for the children, but I don't have a counselor because I can't get there, and I don't have anyone that is willing to really come here and help, so I am struggling to figure this out. I am taking classes online to earn my masters degree, so I am doing something, but I feel like that is so not enough! Not that it doesn't keep me busy, but I still feel numb and empty. I have even tried hosting home party type get togethers to try to get some friends/people to come over and just visit for something fun, but no one shows up (except my mom and sister)! I have been having anxiety/panic attacks lately and I am not sure what to do, my H said that all he had to do was get my medical records and he could prove that I wasn't mentally stable or fit to be a good parent! Go figure I was on antidepressants to deal with a miscarriage, and trauma from a car accident that left me in pain for 7 years, but I am not supposed to need help to manage, oh yeah and my husband abandoned his wife and children for a woman who is 10 years older than him, but I am supposed to be happy and know how to keep it together with no car, no money, no job??? AHHHH, there I go again off on a tangent, but really I don't really know what to do or even try, I don't have a babysitter, haven't been able to find one to replace my old one, she is leaving for college in 14 days!


I don't understand, I thought Plan B was very clear Her or ME, until he leaves her or files for Divorce, NO CONTACT from me? Please explain.


I really really want to change, not that I think I am terrible or anything, but who would want to go through something like this and not come out the other side a changed and better person. I want to be better not bitter! I just don't know how or where to start?!?

Schoolbus,
I tried to find that post, but don't know where to look or how to find it? Can you lead me or point me in the right direction?
Thanks
KLB

Good morning everyone, it is 9am here and already very hot, but the sun is shining so beautifully, I just wish I could shake this pain in my chest/fear. I don't know what to do, I just want to give up! I just want to run away from here, bill collectors, credit card companies, my wedding anniversary is this week, Fathers day.
I know that God will not give us more than we can bear, but I don't know how to do this. I just want someone to hold me and help me and tell me it will be okay! I hate being like this, I hate feeling like this!
I have been in Plan B for two weeks now and I can't seem to focus or figure out what to do for me and the kids. I feel so lost and alone, and I come here and try to write it all down so that I can get it out of me and find some peace.
I hate what he has done to our home, our marriage, our children, to me. But, I guess I should hate what I allowed to happen! I should have seen and known before so much damage was done, but there I go again THIS IS NOT MY FAULT!
Two weeks and nothing, no calls for his kids, no e-mails, nothing, I guess I should be happy and thankful for the break, but I can't help but think I pushed him further away! I know that in one sense I did.
I have been researching OW online to try to find out who her parents are to expose to them, but the thing is what if they are like my in-laws and are happy for them and don't care what he/she did to get it, they would be like most of the world today! The funny thing is he left all of this for a woman who is 10 years older! Who is no further ahead or has no more in life than we had! What was so special, important or good that she was worth throwing away his wife, home, children, finances, job, reputation, etc????? I guess I just don't understand because I am the one left behind to deal with reality and responsibility!
Well, I must find a way to pull it together for the kids.....

It is good that you are staying in Plan B.

I forgot. When is hubby going to have to start paying child support?

Hugs, klb (((((klbenfield)))))

It WILL be "okay," klb.

It MAY be with or without your husband, but it WILL be "okay."

What you are feeling is NORMAL and also felt by God.

For example, remember what Jesus said about the Jews?

"How often I have wanted to gather you in my arms as a hen gathers her chicks, but you WOULD NOT."

Jesus knows.

He has also provided for you, HIS child....He has given you "another Comforter," the Holy Spirit.

Rest in Him.

Talk with us.

Share your burdens.

We've "been there" and understand too.

The "valleys" we walk are dark and terrifying, but we don't walk them alone. We can't see, but He can.

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me."

We DO fear, but we don't "have to." Take His hand during this time and just let Him be the guide, going where HE knows the way through this valley.

God bless.

The support hearing is July 18th, he has been paying voluntary support of $500/week till then

Thank you so much ForeverHers, your wisdom and timing yet again are of God! I have been feeling so sad. I know that this is the place God wants me right now, but I just can't seem to find the surface and feel the breeze. I just can't seem to lift the fog I am feeling.

God is with me, he will never leave me, I know this and believe it with all my heart, but all the mess my husband has made feels so much like it is mine and mine alone to bear. I am okay alone and don't mind being alone with the children, it is the knowing that because we live in the same neighborhood we are going to on occasion see one another and the not knowing when or if is the part that I am struggling with yet. I want God's peace to flow through me, but I don't know how to get to it. I have asked, but I don't feel it, I still feel lost and empty? Am I doing something wrong? I have been studying the Psalms, Proverbs, and reading Job. I am trying to seek the Lord, but I don't know?

No, klb, you aren't doing anything wrong. You are caught up in the "world" and it is against God, and you are sort of the "collateral damage" because anyone who does stand with God will be persecuted also, just as Jesus was.

Let me give you two things that may help you with your focus. Read them, think about them, and see how you might apply them to your situation.

THREE times Jesus prayed to the Father to see if there was ANY way that He could accomplish His task of redemption without having to endure separation from the Father (something that He had NEVER known for all eternity). When the Bible speaks of Jesus not "grasping" His equality with God, His "role" in the Trinity, but willingly gave it up to take on human form in order to pay the penalty required by sin (even though He himself was and is sinless), it is easy to "gloss over" the magnitude of what He did and what He would do in order to satisfy the righteous justice that was required by God for sin.

He, in his fully human form, sweat "drops like blood." It was INTENSE. He KNEW the price and He knew the Father set the "requirement" that would satisfy the penalty for sin and establish the means by which all sinners COULD be saved from the penalty for sin and have a restored relationship with God for all eternity, not just for our brief time here on Earth.

Can you imagine what Jesus ENDURED for us by submitting His "will" to the Father's will? It was NOT physical death, though that was painful and terrible. It was SEPARATION from the Father, THE penalty that was the just "reward" for sin. He who knew no sin, gave Himself out of love for the Father and love for us, who were created with the express purpose of having an eternal relationship with God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).


Second thing to think about.

You are caught up in the "raging storms of life." They happen, unfortunately, because we ARE in a fallen world and we are all sinful by nature. When we give ourselves over to sinful temptations, such as adultery, it affects not only ourselves, but it affects all around us...as it is affecting you and your children...no matter how much denial your husband may currently be in.

Here is the thought:

"When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear.

But Jesus immediately said to them: "Take courage! It is I. Don't be afraid."

"Lord if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."

"Come," he said.

Then Peter got down out of the boat and walked on the water to Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"

Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"

And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. (Matthew 14:26-32, NIV, emphasis added)

What can we learn from this?

Keep your eyes fixed firmly on Jesus, who IS the Son of God and Master of all creation.

Hold His hand and let HIM lead you safely to the "boat."

The raging wind and seas of life DO NOT end as soon as you fix your eyes on Jesus or even when He reaches out and takes your hand while you are doubting.

The winds die, the seas calm, and life is SAFE when Jesus takes you by the hand, walks WITH you, and you both arrive at the destination He has set HIS eyes on.

"Is anything too hard for God?"

It may seem like it while the seas of life are raging, but He IS God and all things obey Him when He chooses to act, in His timing.

God bless and comfort you and give you the peace that comes from knowing Him and walking with Him each day, no matter how stormy each day may seem at the time.

Hi KLB,

I haven't had a chance to catch up on you, but I wanted to give you a hug and let you know you aren't a lone.

We are all here with you, but more than anything else G-D is there right along side you.

{{{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}}

What a night! I have taken some time to reflect upon the sage words that you sent the other day. I have to say that the Lord definitely is using you and I am so grateful and blessed for that!


WoW! What a powerful way to look at this, I never thought of myself as just collateral damage, but you are so right. My suffering is first and stinks, but mine is minor business compared to the mountain that my husband is amassing.


No, and I am grateful that my suffering isn't even a fraction of Christ's suffering for ME! I know that I have had a hard time enduring this. God tells us too that Jesus' suffering was so intense and horrible that God made the earth dark for three hours to conceal it from being known, so we really can't even fathom it.


Yes, but we in our impatient, impertinent humanselves want it immediately, I want it now, you know yesterday! I know God's timing is perfect and that I am in the palm of His hand, it is hard to not know the outcome. It is so hard to keep things in God's hands and not try to take them back and try to fix it or "help" God out, as if I ever could!
The Lord has been placing the song "Be Still My Soul" on my heart lately. It has been a great comfort. The other song that means so much right now is "How Deep the Father's Love for Us" sung by Keith and Kristen Getty. I am very moved by music, it seems to touch me like nothing else.

Thank you for your wisdom, Now how do I get through this weekend with my Anniversary and Fathers Day? Any suggestions?

Hey Queenie! Thanks for the hugs, I am praying for you too, how are things for you this week? I am trying to be strong, this weekend is my wedding anniversary and also fathers day, first one alone!
Other than that I am doing okay, so far it has been a quiet week. I had the opportunity to get away with my family this weekend and have some time to think and pray and just BE. It was wonderful!
I am finishing up my first Master's class this weekend, so far I have an A! I am so proud of myself, I was afraid I couldn't do it, but God has other plans for me than even I know!

Praying and thinking of you...
KLB

Music is a wonderful gift. There are many songs that I found to be especially comforting, so let me just offer two of them to you to add to your "collection."

Peace Like a River

Great Is Thy Faithfulness.

One relatively new, one relatively old...both with powerful messages of hope and peace and God's love for us, even during very difficult times we may face.




No great "words of wisdom" to make it all better. My anniversary is this weekend, so I know what you may be feeling.

The "best" thing that I can offer is to "stay busy." Get out of house with the kids and go do something. Don't sit around with "just your thoughts." You will have the thoughts, because times such as these DO tend to trigger us, but give yourself a "break" for a while and concentrate on the blessing of children that God gave you as a result of your anniversary.

Hugs, klb.

ForeverHers
Thank you for the song additions, yes, they are wonderful also.
Thank you also for the suggestions for this weekend, I have been looking for something/somewhere to go with the children, but I think it will have to be enough to just walk to the park. I have the money saved for when he didn't pay me, but I really didn't think that he would go to that too, but I guess I was wrong. I really feel sorry for him when he gets his head out of the fog and realizes or is shown all that he has done, I would so be overwhelmed with shame and guilt.

I will try to search for the "be still" thread. It was an old thread, and since the switch over to the new boards, it might be hard to find.


Plan B is about many things. One of the things certainly is about the idea of putting the WS into a situation where the OP has to meet all of the emotional needs. The OP usually isn't really good at that, because the OP is not the family - the WS has a family, the one they left, and miss, and want to be around. The family that is familiar, and "home".

Plan B also forces the WS to look at what it would really look like to be divorced. No pesky spouse to interfere with my affair, no no no! Now I'm free as a bird, yes siree! Only what they usually find out is that the affair isn't quite what it was cracked up to be.

The WS begins to wonder why the BS isn't missing them, chasing them, calling them, begging for them to come home anymore. Why did that BS stop wanting them? Why did that BS send that letter, and hey, that BS cannot kick ME out of her life! I AM THE ONE WHO IS IMPORTANT HERE! You see, it is all about the WS. Plan B begins to make the WS question what is going on in the BS's life, and why they "let them go" all of a sudden, too.

Routine settles into the affair relationship pretty quick, and that fantasy bubble bursts fast. Boring is the word of the day, and the spouse begins to look better and better, because the affair partner's true light begins to shine. See, that OP cannot keep up the mask all day every day, and neither can the WS. It is too much work! Nobody can pretend to be someone they are not for that period of time!

Usually, the WS tries different tactics to get the BS to break Plan B. Watch for this. There will be all sorts of "emergencies" that are not emergencies at all. Lost socks, broken pencils, you name it. But it will seem that only the BS is the person who is capable of solving the problem, or the only person on the planet who can answer the question, and it MUST be answered at that very moment in time. Watch and see - because it will happen. If there are kids in the mix, the kids will probably be used in one of the calls - lost school papers, can't find the diaper bag, where did you put the medicine.....

Many times there is a cake-eating situation, where the WS convinces the BS that they want to come back, but cannot hurt the OP; and convinces the OP that they cannot leave the BS because of the kids or some other reason. This way, the WS tries to have it all. Plan B works to make the WS quit this behavior altogether (more often than not returning to the marriage).


Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

The BS is in quiet and peaceful rest phase.

You are working on yourself, separating yourself from the drama and trying to keep yourself from thinking daily about what the WS is doing in affairland.

Working on things exactly as you describe: taking classes toward your Master's degree, throwing parties just for fun, taking the kids outside to play, having a weekend off while Grandma takes the kids for an overnighter, etc.

The BS focuses on changes within themselves that they feel they want to make - maybe they have identified something through reading about affairs or marriages that they realize was something they did that was negatively impacting the marriage, and they want to make a change regarding that behavior. So they actively work on it - be it through independent reading, posting and learning here, counseling, or what have you. Maybe they take up with a local support group and work with others who have the same desire for change.

Maybe the BS needs to focus on her body and joins a yoga class for strengthening, weight loss, and better health, because she recognizes that her WS has an emotional need for an attactive spouse, and she also has wanted to focus on this as well - but she neglected this for many reasons. She wants to change this and now is the time. She chooses.

Maybe the BS feels the need for a larger role for religion in her life, and joins a particular group for that growth in her life.

Maybe the BS just always wanted to learn how to belly dance, so she takes a class to learn how.

Or wanted to raise dalmatians, so she buys two and starts a kennel.

Or decided she wanted to work in the local soup kitchen.


That is what I meant by "work on yourself". Whatever you need to do to make positive changes in yourself that make you the best you can be. You identify your needs for emotional, physical, spiritual growth, and work on them. The focus now, is you. You know what your husband's EN's are, and maybe you want to do one thing that would improve yourself in that arena. You know what you want - and it sounds like you want a Master's degree!!!! And you're doing that - congratulations!

And yes, throw parties - laugh out loud. Have fun, and when your kids come home, make Kool-aid popsicles and have a party with them, too, when you aren't reading for one of those classes.

Plan B is many things. But it is NOT about the WS, thinking about him, worrying about him, or anything of that sort. It is all about YOU.

Sb

Thank you Thank you Thank you SchoolBus,
That was exactly what I needed! I knew it, but to read it and have it said by another thank you.

Today was a good day, I got the kitchen/dining room cleaned out, got my homework done, and kids had a happy play date!

I have been having a hard time feeling anything but numb, but you are right I have been doing it and the feelings will come, but I need to keep going one day at a time and before I know it the day will come when I don't hurt. I read that the best fastest way to forget someone is to forgive them. I thought I had forgiven him, but have realized that I have been holding onto pockets or that I keep picking certain things back up! It is so hard to lay it at the throne of grace and leave it there!

I had a wonderful time sharing with my pastor yesterday, he shared that he has been praying over this situation and my wanting to have the baby dedicated since we had been putting it off due to my husbands wayward and disconnectedness for the last, well, long time. Anyway the pastor said that in his prayers for wisdom in this that the Lord reassured him that my story is not finished that he has both my husband and I in his hand and in regards to the baby to "Be Still" Which made me feel so good and at peace because since last Saturday when I prayed and gave that request to God, he has been continually putting that song on my heart "Be Still my Soul" It was just so reassuring to hear that I am walking the way that the Lord wants, I want so badly to keep him as my center, to not put my husband or anything else ever back in God's spot.

Thank you SchoolBus for your love and encouragement, I pray for each of you and thank God daily for the encouragement and provision of the MB site in my life! I must get some sleep I have a long day tomorrow, I have 3 huge projects due for school this weekend, but I am so proud of myself, I have a 100% so far in my course!!!!

Queenie- I have been praying for you and I saw a post on your thread and wanted to congratulate you on your middle son's graduation! Way to go, mom! We mom's must remember that we are their encouragers, and whether they say it or not they love us for being strong through the valley. I received this poem/story as an e-mail the other week and I can so relate to the feelings, and in fact I read it often to remind myself just how valuable I am in my children's lives! I pray that it will uplift you too!

I am praying for God to strengthen you and keep us on the Plan B path to self discovery and healing! Together we will all make it! Love to you, KLB


I'm invisible.

It all began to make sense, the blank stares, the lack of response, the way one of the kids will walk into the room while I'm on the phone and ask to be taken to the store. Inside I'm thinking, "Can't you see I'm on the phone?" Obviously not. No one can see if I'm on the phone, or cooking, or sweeping the floor, or even standing on my head in the corner, because no one can see me at all.

I'm invisible.

Some days I am only a pair of hands, nothing more: Can you fix this? Can you tie this? Can you open this?

Some days I'm not a pair of hands; I'm not even a human being. I'm a clock to ask, "What time is it?" I'm a satellite guide to answer, "What number is theDisney Channel?" I'm a car to order, "Right around 5:30, please."

I was certain that these were the hands that once held books and the eyes that studied h istory and the mind that graduated summa cum laude - but now they had disappeared into the peanut butter, never to be seen again.

She's going ... she's going .... she's gone!

One night, a group of us were having dinner, celebrating the return of a friend from England. Janice had just gotten back from a fabulous trip, and she was going on and on about the hotel she stayed in. I was sitting there, looking around at the others all put together so well. It was hard not to compare and feel sorry for myself as I looked down at my out-of-style dress; it was the only thing I could find that was clean.. My unwashed hair was pulled up in a banana clip and I was afraid I could actually smell peanut butter in it. I was feeling pretty pathetic, when Janice turned to me with a beautifully wrapped package, and said, " I brought you this."
It was a book on the great cathedrals of Europe. I wasn't exactly sure why she'd given it to me until I read her inscription: "With admirati on for the greatness of what you are building when no one sees."

In the days ahead I would read - no, devour - the book. And I would discover what would become for me, four life-changing truths, after which I could pattern my work:
* No one can say who built the great cathedrals - we have no record of their names.
* These builders gave their whole lives for a work they would never see finished.
* They made great sacrifices and expected no credit..
* The passion of their building was fueled by their faith that the eyes of God saw everything.

A legendary story in the book told of a rich man who came to visit the cathedral while it was being built, and he saw a workman carving a tiny bird on the inside of a beam. He was puzzled and asked the man, "Why are you spending s o much time carving that bird into a beam that will be covered by the roof? No one will ever see it."

And the workman replied, "Because God sees."

I closed the book, feeling the missing piece fall into place. It was almost as if I heard God whispering to me, "I see you. I see the sacrifices you make every day, even when no one around you does. No act of kindness you've done, no sequin you've sewn on, no cupcake you've baked, is too small for me to notice and smile over. You are building a great cathedral, but you can't see right now what it will become."

At times, my invisibility feels like an affliction. But it is not a disease that is erasing my life. It is the cure for the disease of my own self-centeredness. It is the antidote to my strong, stubborn pride.

When I really think about it, I don't want my son to tell the friend he's bringing home from college for Thanksgiving, "My mom gets up at 4 in the morning and bakes homemade pies, and then she hand bastes a turkey for three hours and presses all the linen s for the table." That would mean I'd built a shrine or a monument to myself. I just want him to want to come home. And then, if there is anything more to say to his friend, to add, "You're gonna love it there."

As mothers, we are building great cathedrals. We cannot see if we're doing it right. And one day, it is very possible that the world will marvel, not only at what we have built, but at the beauty that has been added to the world by the sacrifices of invisible women.

author unknown

That was really beautiful klb! I know as a young single parent, i often felt just like Ds' mother. It was not a badfeeling but sometimes I did feel invisable. you can feel so proud of what you areaccomplishing under such duress. someday your children will remember that even in the worst of times, you were always there mom and you always put there needs before yours.

I am so glad that you went away with your family last weekend. You really needed it. As for this coming weekend, try not to dwell on it. Make new memories with your kids. the last two weeks, I have gone through a couple of milestones quite uncerimoniously. (sp) One year since D-day and one year since I confronted him 10 days later. I had already decided that I did not want to make an issue of the dates and I chose not to think about it. Sometimes I had to say out loud, "Get behind me Satan!"

I took back those dates and now I can finally not say, "this time last year he was..." It is a good feeling. This time next year, you will be in a better place, one way or the other. You will be a stronger, better person. Maybe in a stronger, better marriage. Maybe not. God already knows how this will end so just let Him walk you through it. We will help.

I will pray for you each day.

Gods Blessings,

Say

Thanks SaynoMore,
I am glad for the changes that are happening, but even more grateful for starting to believe in them/me! I know that I have a lot more changes to make and a long journey yet to go, but I at least feel as if I am beginning to make progress emotionally. I know there will be times that I will again sink or begin to fall, but they will be fewer and farther between!

Time to go play with the kids....

KLB

Okay everyone, I need your help again. My "voluntary" support for last week was supposed to be deposited on Friday, June 7th and was not put in, I talked to the lawyer and he basically said I have to wait till support hearing in July before anything can be done. He mentioned a Petition for Special Relief, that will entail an outlay of Dollars disproportionate to any potential benefit. I copied this from his email because I have no clue what this means!
Since I have no plan b letter to him, and no intermediary since they quit. What do I do? I have money saved for this, but is there anything else I should do?

Also the kids are having a hard time it has been almost a month without any contact, I asked if they wanted to call and talk to him and they said no, but I really don't know if this is right or not? Please advise...

Otherwise we are doing good today!

I imagine this petition for special relief would include asking for a disproportionate (unequal) amount of support than what is normally requested because of some allowable basis in your state. (Example, in states where adultery is a "ground" for divorce, the Court can order a disporportionate share of the marital assets to the one who was not at fault.) Understand?

But, if you didn't understand what your lawyer meant, ask him! He works for you. Ask him to explain it to you in layman's terms.

I have no idea what that legal stuff means! Sorry!


I loved the invisible mother story. Beautiful.


You are doing a great Plan B, kl. Hang in there. You sound like you are doing about like everyone does - up at times, down at others. It's normal.

You need to find another intermediary. Maybe someone from your church will do it. Have them read about Plan B, and explain that it does not place them in between the two of you, it just insulates you from communications and allows you peace, and allows you to preserve love for him so that when he does return you will be rested and ready to resume the marriage.

It is only a business arrangement - not a negotiator for the marriage. The intermediary simply cuts out anything "personal" from messages, such as "My lover and I feel wonderful now that you are out of my life you..." or "I wish you would give up this stupid intermediary stuff and grow up you..." or "My new girlfriend and I are going to the Bahamas and this could have been you, but since you aren't talking to me..."

The intermediary should only pass on information from communications such as, "There will be $600 for the bills placed in the account at ABC Bank by the 4th. Jonnie and Susie will be home by 5:30 on Sunday, but my mom will be bringing them."

Of course, if this next message gets sent, then by all means the intermediary should immediately contact you!

"I want to return home, have cut off all contact with my affair partner, and will send a no-contact letter that you can read and mail. Please forgive me, I have been a stupid jerk and cannot for the life of me figure out what happened inside of my brain. I must have had some sort of LSD flashback and was zapped into an alternate universe. I now need and will attend lifetime counseling in order to repair the damage that I have done to our marriage and the children. Please make an appointment with the Harleys for us at your earliest convenience, and I WILL PAY FOR IT."


The above message has yet to be seen from an active wayward, so do not be watching for it. Your results may vary.



I had no luck finding the "Be Still" thread. I can't even find the "Notable Posts" thread!!!!!

Sheesh.

Schoolbus

Hi PM-
Did you have a nice trip? I got a chance to get away this past weekend overnight with my kids and my parents!
I thought that was what that meant, I e-mailed my lawyer to explain it, but haven't heard from him yet.

Thanks,
KLB

I had a wonderful trip! It was awesome getting to see our son again. The best moment of the whole trip was when they released the family members to go outside the auditorium to find their "soldiers." We couldn't find out son so we all ended up splitting up to look for him. My husband spotted him first and yelled his name across the field. The moment my son turned his head and spotted his dad, he just burst into tears and they didn't stop for at least 15 minutes. It was so special and we were so proud.

He told us how much he appreciated us now after going through basic training.

Thanks for asking!

I am so happy for you PM I am glad that you had such a great reunion with your son. I pray that my children will be proud of me one day. I feel like such a mess most days lately, I must say though that the last two days, I have done pretty good all things considered. I didn't fall apart till after they were in bed and it wasn't because of my husband it was because of my daughter's behavior and attitude (you know the whole 8 going on...syndrome) I know that she is hurting and doesn't know how to process or deal with this, but they just keep taking it out on me and I am the one who is here trying to love them through this, I just hurt for their pain and cannot even imagine it for them, but I know how bad it hurts to lose something that you consider precious. I get so angry and frustrated with her because emotionally she is a duplicate of me and I don't know how to deal with me and get angry at me, so I just reflect the same toward her. I know that God is working in me and changing and softening me,but the changes sometimes can't happen swiftly or permanently fast enough. I really am so amazed at the way the Lord has been with me and the kids and providing for us. I realize now that not having a car and not having people help more is God's plan for me right now, I have things that I need to work on in this time that he is FORCING me to see and deal with otherwise they would get overlooked again.
Thank you all for your prayers- I can feel them, I can feel the peace and change coming- I really want God to make me a blessing and show me that miracles do still happen each and every day!
I am sad about tomorrow and not having my husband to celebrate our anniversary, but I am hoping to go to my parent's boat again with the family and with our (H &my) best friends and their children. Please keep praying for the Holy Spirit to do his work in him and bring him to repentance and restoration with the Lord!

{{{{{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}}}}

I have to get to work before anyone else, but I'll be back as soon as possible.

You are doing amazing. It may not feel like it, but you are and you are coming here and posting which is really good for you. Because we are here with you and walking along side you right now.

But more than anything - G-d is protecting you and guiding your path. You just can't see it.

Well, the day has dawned and it is upon me, and I am surprised how well I am doing so far. It is 2:30am here and I just finished my homework, and am heading for a nap before I leave for my parents boat again. My parents and "our"(husband's and my) best friends and our families are heading to MD to go on the boat and picnic and "celebrate" my anniversary or unanniversary. I am not sure what it is, I know that a part of me is sad, but another part of me is excited to go and have a good time. I am hanging in there, the Lord is my rock. I want to believe that he will give me my miracle, but I don't know if that is his plan, so for now I move on alone with our children to a new life. I sure do miss him, but then at other times, I really don't I just miss having someone here another adult to talk to and share the burdens and joys with. I really hope that she was worth this because I know without any doubt that I deserved better than I ever got! I deserved to be loved and cherished and taken care of, but that isn't what is my reality, so now I need to love and cherish and take care of me and the kids.
I so don't know how I would be able to be with him again after he blatantly turned his back on his children without any care or concern, how after he chose himself and another woman could I trust or feel safe or anything again, I guess that is the miracle of God also, but that again isn't my reality. My reality is it is me and the kids alone with no job, no income, no car, but a lot of determination and a lot of prayer and God! I feel a little lost and a lot sad today!
I will be back tomorrow night, so I will check in with you all then. Please teach me how to pray!
Love and prayers, KLB

Perhaps you remember Jesus's teaching on this issue?

"Our Father, who is in heaven...."


"Taking everything to God in prayer...."


klb, I have found that one of the first "casualities" of infidelity is our prayer life.

When it seems as though prayer is impossible or when you just don't know what to pray for....just "go to the Lord" anyway. KNOW that the indwelling Holy Spirit WILL intercede for us with "groans" that the Father understands. Think of those "groans" as another "tongue," if you will, that we might not understand but God understands perfectly. He who searches our hearts and minds KNOWS us, and knows how to "put into words" what we can't seem to do. Jesus did not call the Holy Spirit "another comforter" for nothing.

Enjoy your day! Today being my anniversary, I understand the "thoughts" such a day triggers.

God bless.

ForeverHers,
Thank you for your thoughts about prayer, my prayer life has changed in that I have learned to understand the continual, but I have had a good relationship of just talking to the Lord throughout my day for a while I would honestly say for about a year now I have really been working in this area, and I know about the groaning, but my family and friends feel that I by now should have given up on my husband and feel that he is a "despicable...... " and that I should not waste my time or prayers on him. Well, I have been praying for them, but I don't know what I should be praying for for my husband, I love him, and I honestly want to see him restored in his relationship with the Lord, of course there is the selfish side that wants that so that we could have a chance at reconciliation, but the larger dominant side of me just desperately wants that so that I can believe that God still works miracles and that I don't want my husband to suffer any more than is necessary for God to break and change him, and I fear for him if he doesn't repent!
My anniversary was a nice day, I went to MD with my parents overnight on their boat with the kids and my husband and my best friends came down too with their boat and children. We went tubing and water skiing and had a cookout and played, it was nice. I had one melt down about 3pm when I lost it and started to cry that at that time I had just been married and we were getting our wedding photos taken! I miss him so much I just don't understand why or how all this has happened, but it has!
Today when I arrived home there was a letter from my lawyer to my husband and F-in-L. Wow! It was another harsh letter concerning the finances and lack of support and paying support out of the line of credit against our marital home and wow! I just wish that it would make a difference, but he is so whacked and fogged out that I don't think it will do anything but make him more angry at me. I just wish I could understand what was so incredible about this woman, and why I have to be the enemy. I DIDN'T DO ANY OF THIS! Sorry for the yelling, I am just so frustrated! I know he is in sin and he has to justify that what he is doing is right and okay by making me look bad to himself, but I cannot believe that my best friend for the past 18 (okay minus 2 off of that since the affair started he obviously wasn't being a best friend with all the lies and deception)years!
Well, that is my rant for the day, I pray that your anniversary was better? Did you and your wife ever reconcile? I pray that you did, you sound like an incredible person, I know that I am thankful for you to encourage and support all of us here on MB, but I wouldn't wish this on ANYONE not even my worst enemy (not that I have one, but you know what I mean)!
Have a good night, it is getting late here and I have to finish my homework!
KLB

Well, I made it through the weekend only to fall apart today! I miss him so much and I hate this. This is the longest since I am 16 that I have gone without talking to him. Things have been getting nastier with the lawyer and the properties that my husband and F-in-L are trying to sell. I think mainly it is my F-in-L that is getting angry my husband is so "in love" with OW that he isn't doing anything, I could be wrong on that but that is what I am seeing on the outside. I hate this all so much and I am just so crushed for my kids!!! I love them and I don't want them to grow up without their daddy, but he wasn't and isn't a daddy, all he is/was is a sperm donor. That is the only way that I can see that he could walk out and abandon his children so totally! I want so badly to hate him, I just want to move on I am so confused and alone!

My parents want all of us to go to North Carolina for 10 days with them, but I am afraid to leave for that long. I don't like the idea of the house sitting alone like that and not knowing what he is thinking, I would be crushed to come home and find he had cleaned out the little that is left, but at the same time I know in my heart that he is GONE and that he doesn't need want or care about us or anything that is left other than maybe his tools and our tv (sad to say, but that would be the things that he would probably take).

I just want him to come home I just want my kids to have a dad I am so lost I feel no peace, no direction, and my school work is suffering now. Please help me!!!!!!

Personally, I would go on vacation with your parents and kids. You need a break and some fun times! And sometimes just getting away gives you perspective.

Do I need to notify him that we are going? Or can we just go? I will have my laptop for e-mail, but he doesn't have my new cell phone number.
What about the house?
I agree about the much needed perspective, I think, I think more than anything I need distance and time. How long does Plan B last being dark before the WS initiates contact? I guess I really shouldn't care about that, but I really do, I feel like such an idiot it isn't like he has been making love bank deposits for a long time, but why do I feel the need to stay the course and why do I still have love and compassion for him?

Go on vacation with your family KLB! You need it. Your babies need it and if your WH moves his stuff out, you are that much closer to closure and your new life.

Or maybe the empty house and not knowing where his wife and family are would give him a dose of future reality. Go, honey. Have fun.

Say

Use your intermediary (or attorney) to let him know that you and the kids are going out of town and will be unavailable for two weeks and that he can contact your intermediary if there is an emergency. He doesn't need to know the details.

However, I don't remember if you have a LSA or temporary orders in place. If you do, then you'll need to abide by that if the vacation takes time away from his visitation (as ordered or agreed).

I vote go for it too! You need a break. Let your family help you with the kids and enjoy yourself!

I don't believe there is any order and for that matter, there has been no visitation or even calls from him to kids in the last month. I say go wothout notice. Let him wonder, if he even notices you're gone.

God's Blessings,

Say

Even so, I'm not sure if she wouldn't get in trouble if he just this once decided to make contact and panicked. What if he called the police? I think that would hurt her later on down the road if this ever goes to court or turns into a custody dispute (even if just to avoid CS).

I still think she should at least leave a message through the intermediary. Doesn't mean she has to ask permission but she needs to let him know. They ARE still his children even if he is a bad father.

Seeing as how I have no intermediary, but our best friends who were supposed to be our intermediaries know where I will be and how to reach me. I plan to let the attorney know where I will be and for how long, and as far as I know I don't have to let him know and really don't want to just so that he doesn't have any temptation to come here and take more stuff I am running out of things to have or for him to take! I have no bed, no dining room table, the living room has a sofa and a tv! Really there isn't much left.
I know that they are still his children too, technically, but really he has had no interest in them for a long time, the only thing that bothers him is control and money! At least that is all this stranger cares about!
I want to go, but I am worried about my classes and being able to keep up. I am starting my thesis class this time and I really can't afford to screw up! I messed up bad on my paper that was due Friday, I couldn't concentrate and get my thoughts to come and it showed even my professor said that it was nothing like the other three weeks worth of work I had produced! I know that I could use the break, but I just don't feel any peace about going, all I feel is anxiety. Shouldn't that count for something, or is that just everything I am going through right now?
Why does everyone around me feel that it is time to let him go and file for divorce? Am I the only one in my family and friends that believes in commitment anymore(other than you all obviously) How do I handle everyones comments? I usually just shrug and say, sorry, I am just not at that place and that isn't what I believe. Then they launch into a tirade about what a despicable piece of crap he is to do this to his kids and I and have no concern for them and that he doesn't deserve me. Well according to Dr. Harley's book His Needs Her Needs, this is as much or more my doing. I didn't meet his emotional needs especially in the area of SF. I wanted to have sex it wasn't that, it was that I didn't know how to please him and he wouldn't help/tell/teach me, and then he didn't want it at all anymore. I guess I am just pathetic! I wanted to love my husband, but everytime he told me what he wanted, no matter how hard I tried or did that thing it was never good enough. When is it time to give up? I sure don't want to, but I don't know. Is this typical what I am going through and seeing from him at this point? How long does it last that he doesn't care or bother or is curious even about us? I have so many questions I just don't understand- the one book I read said that the kind of affair he had was an exit affair, he was going anyway, and he found this OW and thought that this would make it easier on him and that I would let him go without a fight or anything. I guess he got that, I don't think he was leaving I think he was going to try to have both for as long as he could, but I surprised him and told him to leave and that caught him off guard and I also don't think he believed me last month when I told him that I wouldn't contact him until he left her, but I am really struggling with that feeling that if he just rides that relationship out till it is over and then says oh well I'll just go home she'll take me back, then what am I to do? I know getting ahead of myself, but I have all these questions and frustrations and fears and I have no where else to go with them. I just want to curl up in a ball and sleep, but I can't seem to even find sleep and rest, I have been having bad dreams and anxiety attacks in my sleep. The lawyer sent me another letter today that was a copy he sent to my husband and f-in-l. I didn't even know that they had sent him a letter about me, so I was surprised at this response. I hate all of this, I really just want to bury my head in the sand and live in a fantasy and I think I have in some ways. Telling myself oh, he's just on a trip or at work he'll come home soon. How sad and pathetic! I really hate feeling so messed up!!!

Have you told your professor what is happening in your life? If you really think it is going to mess up your thesis, then I wouldn't go. But I really do think you need a break.

Your chances of being with your husband forever are much higher than the two of you getting divorced. So that is in your favor.

Tell your family/friends that when you took your vows, you meant them. They love you and just don't understand.

Believer;


What leads you to say this? I really would like to understand, I have never known anyone who has gone through an affair before I truly don't know what good signs are or what to hold onto hope because of or what. I don't know if that made sense what I just said, but I really want to understand. I am reading His Needs Her Needs right now, and boy do I have a lot to learn, I really can't figure out his needs! They say that it is SF first and foremost, but I think that is mine and then Affection, I know that I use SF to get to the affection though, so maybe my primary is affection. Oh there is so much I don't understand. I have been trying to find a counselor here in my area and even my pastor doesn't know where or who to send me to! Any suggestions on how to find someone? I really need help, I am doing good, but I feel like I really need the emotional support and guidance and occasional hug! Not that I would ever wish this on anyone, but I wish I knew someone or could meet someone in my area who has been down this road that I could get together with or something. Any suggestions? Is there a place/way to get educated about affairs and things. I have been reading everything on the site, I still haven't been able to get a copy of the book, I have been so tight with my money since WH stopped paying support and I have another month to go I just want to make it last and be a good steward with what I have, you know if you are faithful with a little then you will be blessed and be faithful with much! I want God to be proud of me, but I just feel so inept!

As for the class I will be having first class tomorrow and I plan on letting my professor know right away just so that it is said and out there. I have found that if I am up front with people they are a little more understanding when I falter!

Until you can get the books, read all of the articles here on the home page. You will get the idea of how things work.

The statistics show that you have a better chance of being with hubby in 5 years than being divorced or him being with someone else. The trick is getting through this hard time without losing your love for him.

Affairs almost always end and most marriages recover.

Most counseling that you find doesn't really help in case of an affair. That is because most marriage counselors have no idea about the dynamics of affairs.

Stick with us and we will help you through this.

Getting a break would be good to get perspective. But if it is going to harm your education, I would advise against it, unless you are coming completely undone.

Thank you, so let me see if I understand you:


So, I should expect to be alone for the next 5 years, or we will be recovered in 5 years? I have been reading what I can, and most days I am doing better, but with my anniv having been sat and fathers day sun I have really been struggling, I feel that the children should have contacted him to tell him how they are feeling, but I don't want to push him further away or hurt them more. They don't want contact with him, but I think that is becasue they are seeing me hurting for one and they think that he doesn't love them because he is not trying.

I am in some regards unraveling and in others I am doing better. Each day is a battle but one step ahead.

I'm sure it won't be five years. The average affair lasts less than 2 years. Only a small number last longer than that.

My ex's affair lasted 3 and a half years and ended less than 2 weeks after our divorce was final. But that was unusual because he had a lot of money to blow.

I will keep praying for you and your children.

You really need to do what you can to get a break. I hope you decide to take a little vacation.

Thank you so much for your encouragement! Please keep educating me, I love to learn and I want to come out of this experience having taken every opportunity to learn and grow and change! This by far is the hardest of the very hard things that I have been through in my life, I have been working on writing my/our story, it has been a good thing difficult but has revealed a lot.
I have been so blessed by God leading me to this site and I will be eternally grateful, I look forward to being able to help someone through my experiences later. I guess I will know when that time will be. My heart has been breaking for some of the others here, it is so sad to see so many going through this pain. I wish I understood how to love and protect my marriage, but I will definitely not take it for granted ever again if given the opportunity to heal my marriage or if God decides to take me on another path. Now I just need to get brave and trust that God has it ALL in his very capable hands and I need to get out of the way and let go and let God. It's hard to see someone you love hurt themselves so much and make such a huge mess!
Thank you

Yes, the stories here are heartbreaking. And they happen over and over again.

When I showed up here I was so broken and discouraged that I had no hope left. People here came along side me and let me know that I COULD get through this.

And I never thought infidelity would happen to us. My ex was a Godly man, a good man. He ended up losing our church home, his home, our family, marriage and his honor. He is not the same man he was before, and now is very repentant. It still makes me sad at times but I feel good looking back and knowing I did my best.

So hang in there and expect a miracle.

klb - your last paragraph IS what happens when the BS actually loves the WS and is submitting their own life to God and His commands. It is not "easy," but it is what believers can "expect." Believes WILL "come under fire" from Satan and from the "World," because both are at enmity with God and want to cause doubt in the minds of believers that "their way" is better than God's way. Don't believe it for a minute…it's the illusion and allure of SIN.

I just spent the last hour rereading your entire thread up to this point, and I would suggest you do the same. Occasionally it is a good idea to "step back" from today and refresh an "overview" of the situation. It's too easy to get caught up in "standing too close to the trees" each day and it helps to review where things were, what was "done right," what was done "wrong," and what may still remain that "needs to be done."

Given that, I'd like to spend a little time in "review." It's only been a little over a month since you began posting about your situation and it seemed that now might be a good time to look at what has and has not transpired over the past 5 weeks or so.


I'm going to break this review into 2 primary parts; first, with respect to you and your husband and, second, with respect to your local family of believers - your church.


You know your husband and you know if you actually believe this, so I accept your estimation of your husband having had a true conversion experience. If you are not sure about this, then I'd suggest you give some serious thought to a review of the "Parable of the Soils (parable of the sower)" to determine in your mind WHICH sort of "ground" your husband was.



Not sure what you meant by "Satan began his attacks" in February of 1999, but "attacks" on new believes is rather normal…Satan's age old tacit of trying to instill doubt and "worldly rationality" of the type he used on Eve…"God didn't REALLY mean what He said, did He? You will NOT 'surely die,' rather you will become LIKE God."

Satan appeals to "self-preeminence" above all things. If he can get a person to "kick God off of the throne of his/her life" and get the person to sit down and consider theirself to be "sovereign," then they can "justify" doing anything they want to because "they make the rules, not God."



You don't have to "wonder" about this, klb. He IS.

Let's take a very brief journey into the "center of his mind" for a minute, just to prove to you that his life is not all "sweet and good," and it never will be as long he is walking AWAY from God.

[ When he talks to us that she is not around he is so kind and cries a lot and seems like he is breaking under this and then she gets around and then he is this hard, hateful man again! ]

[ WH left in tears holding my hand pulled reluctantly away ]

[ Things with the OW are unstable also, she was fired finally from the place that they both worked, so there is no income coming in there, and she is getting frustrated that all of his income is coming to me. Well, he is MY H!!! ]

[ He keeps saying that I think it is so good for him over there and I just don't know or understand ]

[ WH and I spoke on the phone earlier and he has upgraded from he hates me and wants a divorce to he doesn't know what he wants, he is confused, but doesn't want to hurt me and the children. ]

[ he told me that I was a good woman and wife, but that we didn't make each other happy anymore that he had changed so much, he seems to focus on that ]


klb, what do YOU hear from all of those statements?

Of COURSE "he seems to focus on that" (his rationalization of "changes" in himself) because he knows that he CAN'T "justify" his actions without "some reason that he can convince himself entitles him to sin against God, against you, against his children, and to "hurt the ones who DO love him" as God intended for love to be expressed. Instead, he wants to substitute the "siren call" of the adulteress (unpaid prostitute doing what she wants for HER own benefit regardless of who gets hurt). Suffice it to say that the Bible warns us against the temptation of the seductress and we don't heed God at our own peril.


Klb, the OW is "playing" his emotions, but beneath that he is a "sea of turmoil" simply because the TRUTH is that anyone can run FROM God, but believers cannot hide from God. Consider this truth, if you conclude that your husband DID have a real saving conversion at that conference. God seals ALL believers with the indwelling Holy Spirit. That Holy Spirit IS God, the third person of the Trinity. There is nowhere on earth that a believer can go where the Holy Spirit, residing within him/her does not also go. Sin, being anathema to God, is something that the Holy Spirit WILL convict him of because that is one of the primary "jobs" of the Holy Spirit. Your husband CAN continue to try to run for a while, but God WILL "turn up the heat" on that conviction until he repents, confesses, and seeks God's forgiveness. After that, he will seek your forgiveness and the children's forgiveness. THAT is where things will potentially get really difficult for you, because the HURT is real and forgiveness of sin is not the same thing as "forgetting." Forgiveness is both a command of God and a choice that all believers must make or refuse to grant. That is why Jesus told Peter, "seventy times seven times" if it is necessary.



Now let's turn to the second point for a minute.

There has been no recent update on the "interventions" of the Pastor or other church leaders. From that I am assuming that nothing has actually been done yet, and that, too, is disobedience of God's commands to the Shepard and leaders of the local flock of believers.

If I could talk to your Pastor I would suggest to him that God is also using your situation with your husband to teach him (and the leaders) lessons in "how to be Christ's stand-in" for those under his care.



This is procrastination. This is refusal or reluctance to BE obedient to God's commands. Jesus was CRYSTAL CLEAR regarding "church discipline" in Matthew 18:15-20. This is NOT a command to "think about it" as an excuse for failure to take ACTION. This is a command to "go" and to lovingly confront a sinning believer with God's truth and to stand ready to show the sinner that God FORGIVES and RESTORES repentant sinners.

Jesus, "goes looking for" His "lost sheep" when they wander away from His "sheep pen." Jesus does not "pray" for the lost sheep or attempt to shift the responsibility to anyone else. HE goes. HE finds. HE leads them back. It is a "journey of return" too. He sustains and instructs "on the way back." But most importantly, Jesus makes it CLEAR that the truth is "who can snatch a believe out of my hand?" Jesus has already WON the battle and He is stronger than any opponent. But Jesus will also NOT grab a sinner by the scruff of the neck and FORCE them to return. He WILL keep "searching" until the sinner repents, even if it takes a LONG TIME, as in the case of the prodigal son where it took until the prodigal son "came to his senses" and realize that "his father's house" was where he belonged.

Just like the prodigal son, who didn't think we was "worthy" of being a son again, the Father proved the truth…he always was a son and would be restored to a "right relationship" in the family. To the brother, the father also spoke the truth to one "justly offended" by the sin of the brother, God the Father also provides for the faithful one.


So let's also digress here for a minute. This is where I wish I could talk directly to your Pastor.

The pastor has been praying about confronting WS, he has been hesitant to confront him due to their history. WS went to the pastor in Jan 07 and confessed to an emotional affair with this woman but that it ended but he didn't know how to heal from it and reconnect with family. Pastor gave him some assignments and said they would get back together in a few weeks to talk more, but neither on pursued getting back together again, so WS has been blaming the pastor and saying that if he really cared about him that he would have pursued him and seen that there was more to it than that, but he didn't, so the pastor due to this anger has been hesitant to be the one to initiate contact, but he has his address and all phone numbers and is praying about how to proceed. The other reason that he had not contacted him yet, was that he and many others have been praying for him to reach out on his own to one of the men that he was close too, but it is now going on two months and the pastor said it was long enough! I thought it was long enough hours after he left!

So many things in this to talk about.

1. he has been hesitant to confront him due to their history.

This is putting "human reason" ahead of simple obedience to God. The fact that it MIGHT be "uncomfortable" for the Pastor is no excuse for NOT being humbly obedient to God's commands about "church discipline."

2. WS went to the pastor in Jan 07 and confessed to an emotional affair with this woman but that it ended but he didn't know how to heal from it and reconnect with family. Pastor gave him some assignments and said they would get back together in a few weeks to talk more, but neither on pursued getting back together again, so WS has been blaming the pastor and saying that if he really cared about him that he would have pursued him and seen that there was more to it than that, but he didn't, so the pastor due to this anger has been hesitant to be the one to initiate contact, but he has his address and all phone numbers and is praying about how to proceed.

Allow me, if it's not too presumptuous, one believer to another, to "give him Christ's counsel and tell your Pastor the answer to his prayer about how to proceed."

GO. Go physically and in person. A "phone call" will not suffice.

[color: red] "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over." [/color] (Matt. 18:15)

Your husband's "justification" for his behavior notwithstanding, there is some truth in what he feels and is using for that "justification." The Pastor DID, in my humble opinion, "drop the ball" when this could have been 'nipped in the bud.' (so did my wife and my Pastor).

This is no longer "dealing with the abstract," but is where APPLICATION of biblical truth is important. It is NOT "what we know," but what we apply to OUR lives that is important. This is, again in my humble opinion, just as true for Pastors as it is for anyone. We are ALL sinners and we all tend to NOT "like" confrontation.

Let me suggest that your Pastor can do both himself and your husband a LOT OF GOOD but being obedient to Christ. Your Pastor did "contribute" to the situation in NOT following up "back then." NOW is the time for him to confess that sin to your husband in humbleness and ask your husband to forgive him. Your husband may or may not "feel forgiving," but the responsibility is only to confess and seek forgiveness. Doing that, in my humble opinion, opens the door to your husband to see that no one is "exempt" from sinning and no one is "incapable of being forgiven, first by God, and second by those who were sinned against.

Doing this "removes" a justification for your husband's continued reluctance to submit his own life and actions to God. The "if the Pastor can sin against me and not repent of it" excuse he uses to justify in his mind his own sinful actions is REMOVED.

But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' (Matt. 18:16)

AFTER the Pastor has "done his part," and a little time (if needed) has passed in which your husband can feel the need for his own repentance, and if your husband is still refusing to repent (turn away from his sin of adultery and back TOWARD God, and then back to you), then the "heat" is turned up by the Pastor and one or two elders of the church lovingly confronting him about "obedience to God" as a believer's responsibility…no matter what they are feeling.

[color: red] If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. [/color] (Matt.18:17)

This step, if needed, accomplishes several things.

A. It keeps the "circle of knowledge" of the sin as small as possible should the sinner repent prior to this step.

B. It makes it clear that adultery is UNACCEPTABLE to the church of God as it is expressly forbidden.

C. It does NOT say the sinner "is not saved," it says that there behavior is AS IF they are not saved, and that the "removal of fellowship" is needed to 1)protect the church from any implication that it might 'condone' active unrepentant sinners in the body and 2) holds open the door to RESTORATION of fellowship when the sinner humbles themselves before God and submits to God in repentance. A repentant sinner is to be WELCOMED back into the fellowship because we are ALL forgiven sinners.

3. The other reason that he had not contacted him yet, was that he and many others have been praying for him to reach out on his own to one of the men that he was close too, but it is now going on two months and the pastor said it was long enough!

Prayer is GOOD. But it is no excuse for lack of action. Nathan WENT and confronted David. Believers are commanded by God to GO and lovingly confront, in person, regardless of the "risk" to themselves (David could have had Nathan executed).

IF it "was long enough" when you posted this, WHY has no one GONE and spoken with your husband face to face?
Back on May 19th you stated that the following was the only known "intervention" to date. I assume it is still the only thing that as been done, and it is "inadequate" for obedience to God's commands regarding church discipline to the "angel of your local church."

"the pastor called him Saturday to tell him he is praying for him and wants to see him come to church."

klb, the time for ACTION is today.

Let me make this personal for a moment.

My nephew lost his son to crib death at 6 months of age.

My cousin stepped out in front of a car and was killed at age 32.

My father lost his own father to cancer when my father was 12 years old and was without his father from then on.

My wife lost her mother in a car accident, two weeks before I became aware of her affair.

My father is expected to die in the next day or two, at age 87, deprived of his memory by advanced senile dementia.

We are NOT "promised tomorrow" here on earth. We are only promised "tomorrow" in eternity WITH, or eternally separated FROM, God.

The "Time to ACT" is TODAY. Today is all that God has given us. Forgiveness for the past where needed, Hope for the future, LOVE for all time and for all circumstances.

My "advice" to your Pastor, to your husband, to all of us each day, is to "GO and do the right thing" as God has commanded us.


God bless.


P.S. I live in North Carolina. Take the vacation. Enjoy the diversity of this State from the coast to the mountains.

Foreverhers is exactly right.

My ex and I were long time church members and leaders in our church - conservative Free Evangelical. I prayed about it for a few months and then spoke to our pastor. He called my husband and told him he was no longer welcome in church until he came in and spoke to our pastor.

It didn't stop the affair, and my ex never went and spoke to anyone. But it sure felt good to be supported by my church, especially since so many in our family and our friends did NOTHING.

And it was a wonderful testimony to other members. It showed everyone that forgiveness and reconciliation were available and evil would be confronted.

I did as you suggested and need to spend even more time reflecting on all of this. I am a little awestruck at the changes in myself in just the past 5 weeks. I see what you are saying about the turmoil presented when I was doing Plan A, but now that we are in Plan B just shy of a month, I am not seeing anything but him getting closer to her, and angrier at me(no support for 2 weekS)and abandoning his children. I really want the children to reach out to him, but the people at church feel that if they or we reach out that it will push him further away and make him angrier at us and God. I can see that, but I feel that if he has no contact with anything good all he is doing is entrenching himself more and making it that much harder and longer for him to ever leave without something drastic happening.

I am so frustrated with the situation with the church. I believe that it is God's will that I am still alone with no help, car, or support. I have a few that touch base, but mostly if I don't reach out NO ONE bothers! I discussed the things that you presented about the pastor with him, about a month ago, or more and that was when he called WH. Pastor feels that WH rejected the intervention in April and that until WH is ready to hear it and see any of them that there is nothing to be done but pray! I agree with you they know where he lives I think that they should just show up and try to talk to him! I also know that the pastor would never do that because he is not that way, so here I sit, frustrated and angry! I feel as though I have been grossly neglected by the one place that is supposed to love me through this time! God is with me, but my church is not. Should I email the pastor with your section of the thread in it? I don't know what to do, he said that he briefly looked at the site, but didn't have the time to really get involved! Yeah, I know who really does unless it is them in crisis!!!!!

I am not sure how to proceed. I called the lawyer to find out what the rules are about taking the kids on vacation. There is no divorce filed, no custody filed, nothing, so I don't want to notify him. I think out of spite he would come in the house and have sex with OW and take what he could! But maybe that is only because I am afraid to go that my mind and Satan are making these thoughts.

As for the section:
I believe that my husband was the seed among the thorns. He believes, but lets other things get more prominent in his life and loses his perspective and then he gets lukewarm or even cold. He is very black and white, so he has expressed that he has questions that no one can answer about faith, but when answered he likes to play "devil's advocate" and in a sense talks himself and tries to talk others to his line of thinking even though he really believes I think he has finally allowed Satan to win and convince him that God doesn't love him or want him. He says even through this that he believes in God and Jesus' death on the cross to save us from our sin, but he doesn't think that he is one of those because God stopped answering his prayers and allowed all this bad to happen.


February 1999 we were in a horrible car accident on our way to our then home in VA. I broke both my legs and my left arm. Had to have reconstructive surgery and learn to walk again, dr didn't think walking would even be possible. Then in late May we found out that I was pregnant, I began walking with a walker in June and eventually progressed to a cane when our daughter was born in Jan of an emergency C-section. Then 6 mos later we moved back to PA so I could be a stay at home mom. We lived with my parents for 6mos till we bought our first home (Dec 2000) we started attending a wonderful bible believing church and in Feb 2002 my husband and I decided to be rebaptised, he was the one that explained it to our families that this was a decision that we made because of our choice to live our lives serving and living for Christ, and that baptism is a public profession of this faith. He was growing and changing and becoming a different man, then in Aug our son was born. He was doing great at his job and was getting promotions and making good money and he even had a few people at work that he could talk about God with and he was taking and reading his Bible at work on shift during down times. Then in Jan/Feb of 2003 I had a miscarriage and he started to drift emotionally due to my depression and increasing hours and stress at work, we went for a few counseling sessions, and we started to reconnect with one another and things were good again. We moved to our current home in May of 2005 and in Aug of that year I had to have another reconstructive surgery on my rt leg due to problems and a golfball sized cyst on my achilles tendon. Surgery was a huge success, but husband was distant during recovery and had a hard time seeing me struggle. In April 2006 I ended up in the ER for a terrible case of tonsilitis, and found out that night that we were pregnant with our second son. This was the beginning of the end so to speak. H apparently never dealt with guilt from the time of the accident and then all the subsequent things that have happened to me since the initial accident, and he started to disconnect emotionally. I was put on bed rest in late Aug due to a severe case of bronchitis with coughing so hard I was coughing up blood and having probs with pregnancy. By this time husband and OW were "friends" and then in late Sept I was diagnosed with Herpes, that was systemic, well since I wasn't with anyone but husband and he was distant and away a lot, I asked him if there was anything that he needed to tell me, he said no. Things continued he was "working" about 80 hours a week due to a government test they were undergoing, but during this time he was also getting closer to OW and I don't know when but they began SF during this time too. I received anonymous phone calls telling me of the affair and at one point someone posted signs at work announcing their affair and the FBI got involved and investigated, he told me that none of it was true BLAH BLAH BLAH, however in the end I found out that this was not true that she (aparently with his help) bought a house about a mile if that down the street from our home and that no they never had sex on site, but that it was all off site (found this out after he had left home). So, on it goes to DofD in March 2008. So, I believe that Satan and God were trying all these years to get him to let go of his guilt, but in the end Satan won that battle and he never has left go of all the guilt that he has carried for 9 years now, and this OW has none of that, she is just easy and no reminders of the pain and responsibility! The thing is I have NEVER blamed him for the accident or anything since, I have ALWAYS striven to help him to see that it was JUST AN ACCIDENT! I love him and I just want him to repent and go to God, give it all to him and let God heal him and make him the amazing man he was becoming around the time of our baptism and birth of our first son! God is able WH just needs to repent and see God's hand, he is so blind he cant even see how God has been protecting him even now!!!!

Well, it appears that something worked. I just checked the bank and on Saturday, our anniversary, he deposited the past 2 weeks voluntary support!
At least there is that! I just wish that he would reach out for contact with his kids and start the process to healing, but I am rejoicing for at least one step in the direction of doing the right thing!

Received this in an email and it made me realize that I need to work towards joy it doesn't just happen! Hope this helps someone else today:

Seven Ways to Cultivate Joy
by Insight for Living
Want more joy in your day? Cultivate it! Joy springs from viewing the day’s events from eternity’s perspective. With this intentional focus, you’re sure to see today differently—with more joy and conviction that God is at work in your life.
1. Rehearse with God the reasons you trust Him. Tell Him which of His attributes is your favorite right now. Read the praises of Scripture back to Him—begin with Psalm 103. Join with another believer in prayers of thanksgiving, and delight yourself in His character.
2. Keep a “joy journal.” Record the reasons you have to rejoice and the reminders of God’s faithfulness that you encounter in your everyday life. In addition, why not press a leaf from your prayer walks into its pages or include a photo of a person that brings you joy each time you remember him or her? Think big—expand your journal into a “joy box” or a “joy drawer” that brings floods of joy each time you open it.
3. Surround yourself with joyful people. Joy is contagious—so build relationships with friends whose lives exhibit their confidence in God. Pray for each other that your joy in Christ would continue to increase.
4. Approach life’s challenges and trials redemptively. God doesn’t waste the difficult circumstances of your life but uses them to develop His character in you. Review Romans 5 and James 1 for help in processing pressure productively. Joy will sneak up on you when you view your hardest lessons as gifts from God.
5. Make praise and gratitude a habit. Has God met a need? Praise Him! Have your challenges given you greater opportunities to see Him work? Thank Him! Joy flows from a grateful and responsive heart. Before you turn in at night, write down three to five blessings in your “joy journal.” Make it a habit, and watch your joyful attitude grow.
6. Fill your mind with music. Listen to, sing, and meditate on music that draws your heart nearer to God and His Word.
7. Take the long view. Investors advise their clients not to worry about the daily ups and downs of the stock market—what matters is the long view. Does life present incredible challenges today? Are your reserves at a low, or are you enjoying a content plateau? Regardless of today’s events, take the long view. Remember that God remains in charge of your days and will faithfully develop His character in you.
Remember, joy springs from viewing the day’s events from eternity’s perspective. Trust that God controls your life’s details (Romans 8:28), that He hears your every request (Psalm 116:1), and that His joy will be your strength (Nehemiah 8:10).
Adapted from “Seven Ways to Cultivate Joy,” Insights (March 2001): 2. Copyright © 2001 by Insight for Living. All rights reserved worldwide.

Wonderful! That's great news. I know that's one less worry for you. I agree, it's a step in the "right" direction. Hopefully things will turn around for you. I'm certainly praying for you.

kl,

Regarding notification of the vacation to your WH - I would probably just open a gmail account and email him from that account to let him know that I was going out of town. Give him the particulars, and that is it:

"The kids and I are going with my parents to New York City from July 20th to July 28th. We will stay at the Windsor Hotel 555-1234. In the event of an emergency you may email me at this account. Once the vacation is over, I will delete this email account. Thank you."


That gives him the pertinent information, and emergency contact, and limits the window of opportunity for any contact beyond the vacation window. It also allows for "notification" to him. He hasn't called, so I don't think he's particularly worried about it.


You are on a normal rollercoaster ride, kl. Your emotions will go up and down, and some days will be better than others. It goes with the territory. I wish I could say that it would be better if he were at home with you, but actually it isn't much different. Your worries about the OW and the affair, well, the emotional rollercoaster goes up and down with the WS out of the home or in the home. Even after the WS decides to return home, that rollercoaster still has lots of hills and valleys left in the ride.

Hang in there. Focus on calm thoughts when you are in a panic, and try to think about the things you really do control.

This affair was NOT your fault. While the concept that you were not fulfilling his ENs is partially correct, it is NOT why he had the affair. He had the affair because he was completely wrapped up in himself, what he wanted, what he needed, and focused only on his own needs. You see, had he given any thought to the situation, he might have seen the entire picture here:


What could I do to make my marriage better? Could the marriage be better if I focused my energy on talking with my wife about the feelings I am having? Could the problems I see at home possibly be improved by looking at the needs my wife has, the needs I am not filling? Is my marriage being placed as a priority in my life? When is the last time I looked at my relationship with my wife and evaluated the amount of energy and time I have put into it? How am I going about showing my wife that she is the one woman who deserves my complete attention?

When is the last time I really listened to my wife, and understood what she thought was lacking in our relationship? Have I really attempted to hear that from her, and have I put any effort into loving her?


Because to tell you the truth, kl, the state of the marriage was the problem.

Not YOU.

The marriage needed work.

An affair - that was his decision. HE CHOSE NOT TO WORK ON THE MARRIAGE. He did that.

It was not the solution to the state of the marriage. Instead of BUILDING the marriage, and making repairs to the problems in the relationship,

It was the nuclear bomb, don't you think? Instead of working on his relationship with you,

He chose to sneak a terrorist into your marriage, and helped her to bomb the household from the inside out.

That, kl, has NOTHING to do with YOU.


SB

Can Someone Help Me?

I have been married for 11 years. The problem that I am having with my husband is that he talks and texts other ladies on his phone. We have had this problem for a few years. In the past, I have gone through his phone and confronted him about the texts. I have also looked at our phone bill and confronted him about numerous calls being made to specific people. Now I know the type of person he is. He loves people and communicates all the time to family and friends. I have told him that it bothers me for him to communicate with the opposite sex so much and he said that he would deal with it. Here is my bigger problem. I have access to his personal email account, and I have seen some of the things that he has written to other women. Should I approach him with this or what? If I do I feel that it will be a BIG problem. But I can't stand the fact that he is trying to hook up with other women.

I have been married for 11 years. The problem that I am having with my husband is that he talks and texts other ladies on his phone. We have had this problem for a few years. In the past, I have gone through his phone and confronted him about the texts. I have also looked at our phone bill and confronted him about numerous calls being made to specific people. Now I know the type of person he is. He loves people and communicates all the time to family and friends. I have told him that it bothers me for him to communicate with the opposite sex so much and he said that he would deal with it. Here is my bigger problem. I have access to his personal email account, and I have seen some of the things that he has written to other women. Should I approach him with this or what? If I do I feel that it will be a BIG problem. But I can't stand the fact that he is trying to hook up with other women.

Thank you all for your love and concern, but I have made some decisions today. I have decided that I am done, with all of it! I called to speak to the pastor, but he was too busy, so I told the secretary to just leave a note saying that I would like to be removed from the membership there and that no he didn't need to call me back that he hadn't bothered in the past three months that this has been happening so why would he bother now. I don't agree that God loves me I feel that if he did then this would not be happening, I am being punished and I don't know what for, but I must be a really despicable horrible person to have all of what I have gotten in the last 9 years, and if this means that I go to hell, then so be it, because maybe my salvation wasn't real either. Maybe I wasn't worth it either, so that is okay, I don't have anything so what is one less thing! I appreciate that you all tried with me, but NO ONE here did, NO ONE wants me, NO ONE cared enough to do tell my H that he is a piece of crap and that he needs to get his head out of his butt, so maybe it is me! Maybe I am a worthless piece of crap, so why not, I GIVE UP! I AM DONE!!!!! I can't do this anymore all I am doing is lying to myself anyway, so I am going to do the right thing I am going to Give him HIS children and I am moving on. With the nothing that I am and have.

Thank you all for trying!

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Many times I lost my faith in God during my ex's affair. I even got to the point where I stopped praying - not only for my marriage, but for anything. It just seemed like a waste of time and hope.

KLB, school is getting out in five minutes, I can't write more.

Please know how much you are in my thoughts.

(((((((((((((KL))))))))))))), Please don't give up. You are NOT a despicable horrible person. You do not deserve this. What your WH is doing is all about HIS choices, not yours. Cry out to God, He DOES hear you and knows your heart. Let your husband go and let God deal with him. There is nothing you can do right now except be still.

I hear your hurt and frustration about the people in your life, especially your pastor. That's painful. People will ALWAYS let you down, no matter their stature in life. God knows your need. Give it all to Him. Right now. We're here for you.

KLB,

I am praying so hard for you right now. I pray that I misunderstood what you wrote today. I am so sorry i wasn't able to be on this afternoon. You are a brave, intelligent young woman who loves a selfish,thoughtless man. Please come back on and talk to us. You will get through this. We all have, one way or the other. That's why we can help you. Please give us a chance.

God's Blessings,

Say

klb, I understand the feeling. "Been there, done that."

I'll be around if you want to talk anymore.

Something to think about....who was "there" for Jesus? Why did he do what he did anyway?

God bless.

{{{{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}}}}

Praying for you and your kids again today!

{{{{{KLB}}}}}

I am sorry you are hurting so much right now. Please remember that this is part of the roller coaster that we all have to ride. There will be really down moments where you think you just can't do this anymore. But a few days pass, and you gain a little strength again.

You can do this, KLB. You really can.

"He heals the broken hearted and binds up their wounds."

"I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

You have every right to be done with this marriage. That is a choice you can make and no one here will fault you for it.

We will help you through, either way....trying to restore your marriage or divorce and moving on.





I know you feel hurt deeply by your church. They are a bunch of humans who make mistakes, who have their own baggage, and who fall short...just like the rest of us.

I look back on my life and wonder how many times I was clueless to someone else's suffering. I was certainly clueless about infidelity.

I'm sorry they let you down and haven't been the support you needed.

But God WILL provide for all your needs. Sometimes in ways you just wouldn't expect.

Perhaps being here on this board is the support he is providing for you.

Perhaps he is strengthening you and showing you that you CAN make it, even without IRL help.





I think you KNOW that God loves you. I've seen it in your posts over and over.

This is happening because your WH has free will. Satan knocked on a door and your WH didn't realize it was satan. He opened that door and satan got a foothold. That foothold grew until your WH was so enmeshed in his sin he couldn't see truth from lies anymore. He is now driven by his flesh instead of by the Holy Spirit. His selfish, fleshly desire drive him.

BUT if he truly has the Holy Spirit, he will have no rest. There will be an internal battle for his soul that you are completely unaware of. He will enjoy his sin for a season, but it will eventually destroy him. He will not eat, he will not sleep. He will be tormented....until he repents.

While all of this is happening, you are leaning on the Lord to be your husband, your strength and your provider.

There is no guarantee that your WS will ever choose to free himself of is fleshly desires.

BUT, God does tell us that HIS grace is sufficient.

It is time to stop praying for your WS to return home.

It is time for you to pray that God have his way with your WS. Do you see the difference?

It is time to ask God to heal your heart and help you to become the person he desires you to be.

It is time to surrender YOUR will to God and to trust him when he says he has plans to prosper you and not to harm you.

A turning point for me was when I honestly embraced that, when I realized that I had NO IDEA HOW he would prosper me, when I began to open my eyes that God could prosper me greatly even without my husband's return.








Now this is just your own fog babble and you need to stop that.

It will not do you nor your children any good.

We all have moments of doubt, but do not let that consume you and give satan a foothold into YOUR heart. He is knocking on your door right now with whispers of doubt and discouragement. Rebuke him out loud and cast his wicked behind out of your life and your children's lives.

There are times of trials and sufferings in ALL our lives. Some of us bear more than others, but we all suffer. And what does God say about our suffering:

Rejoice in that suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character, and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

God will do great things THROUGH these trials you face, IF YOU surrender your will to Him without your own personal expectations of HOW God needs to do it.

He is God. He may have blessings in your life you cannot yet fathom.

Our minds are miniscule compared to what God can do.





There are MANY people here on this board who had NO IRL help. This ain't about YOU.

People have their baggage. They struggle with fears. They worry about doing the WRONG thing and sometimes allow that fear to prevent them from doing ANY thing.

Look to God, not to the imperfect people around you.





Now you're just speaking more of BS babble.

I covered this above.

There is NOT ONE BS on this board or on earth who is worthless. We've just been devastated by the one person we thought we could trust above all others.

You have suffered the greatest trauma you probably ever will.

Give yourself a break.





You have every right and reason to give up on your marriage.

BUT

You have NO RIGHT OR REASON to give up on your children or on you!

If you get nothing else out of my post, GET THAT!






How can you consider that the RIGHT THING be give HIM the children??????

You are the only sane parent your children have right now.

I know you are weary, but they need YOU! Not some wacked out, sin-ridden wayward father, let alone the ho he would bring around if you were out of the picture.

Are you really willing to turn your children over to the homewrecker who is attempting to destroy their lives????

Find your MamaBear and battle for your children.

This isn't just about their earthly life. This is about satan working to destroy ALL OF YOU. If he takes your WH out through fleshly lust and takes you out through discouragement and hopelessness, he's got your children easily. Who's going to fight for their souls, if not you?



Your story is not over yet.

Let it be written that your life glorified God through trials and sufferings.

Let it be written that you fought for the souls of your children....AND WON!

They need you.

Even when you feel incompetent...they need you.

Even when you feel like you've failed...they need you.

All they need from you is to.....not quit on them.


SunflowerSmile/sexymamabear

Yeah! What SS said. Excellant post SunflowerSmile! I have spent much time praying for KLB since I read her post last night. I'm so glad she has such wonderful support here.

God's Blessings,

Say

Prayers going up for you and your family. And a special prayer to rebuke Satan. He is attacking this family with zeal.

Good Morning-
I am still alive and looking at the green side of the grass, I can't say that there is any feeling or anything, I feel nothing, just numb and empty.
I was doing okay yesterday and then a friend called to tell me her husband bumped into my husband and they talked. She told me he is smoking again, and when asked about me and the kids all he said is we're not talking right now. Friend said he looked like he had crawled out from under a rock. I just can't deal with it all anymore! I am so lonely and afraid and I quit school today because I can't concentrate or even think straight to attempt something that costs that much money!
I am currently staying with my parents, they were afraid to leave me alone after yesterday, not that I would do anything stupid, just that I have been so distraught since my anniversary they don't know what to do, so they resort to hollering at me and telling me that he was never going to be like my dad! Oh yeah that helps, they also basically told me they never liked or approved of him, but I chose him and he put food on the table a roof over our heads and provided, but other than that he was nothing.
I don't even want to go on a 9 hour car trip with them and stay with them for the next 11 days, but I have nothing and no one else. I don't know what to do or how to provide for my children I have no church I have a few friends, but EVERYONE is telling me that he is NEVER going to come back. I know that they are probably right, but I wanted so badly to believe that God could or would change him for the children. I never wanted them to live a life without their dad, I thought that if I withheld them due to his selfishness and lack of interest that it would help him to miss them and realize what he had given up, but I guess not, I don't want to break Plan B, but no one else seems willing to talk straight or reality with him! It has been a month since he has seen or talked with his children!!! My family feels that I am holding on to a pipedream and that even if he did come back that he would do what he wanted and I would sooner rather than later end up right back where I am not because of me but because he doesn't care about anyone or anything but himself. I guess I am starting to think that maybe he is lost and gone, and that frightens me because I don't want to be alone, he was my best friend and he threw me away like a piece of trash. I can't help but think that I am trash! My parents are furious at that, and tell me that this is all my fault that I allowed him to take my self worth from me, but honestly I never had it to begin with and what little I had was what he helped me to find and then yes, in the end he destroyed that too with his lies and betrayal and adultery.
SO, here I am not knowing where to go or what to do? I know that answers don't come in a heartbeat, but I have been sitting here for 3 months trying to get up everyday and find the strength to just make it back to bed again. I can't even find joy with my children. Everything is so tiring and overwhelming. I don't even know if God is with me. Maybe my faith was never real, it isn't like I hear his voice or know what I am supposed to do. Maybe I am just a poser too like my husband was? I don't think I am, I genuinely want to know and seek God, but maybe he doesnt want me? Oh well, there are no answers, and I must tend to the children. I don't know where to go or what to do, I know I will eventually be okay, but how do I get to eventually when all I want was in yesterdays?????

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PRAYERS, I am so lost... I am trying SS I am trying, I just want someone to hug me and tell me that I will be okay. I know that you all are, but I am so lonely....

I know that Satan wants me and I don't want to give in, but I don't know how to go one either. It hurts so bad!!!!!! I want to feel again anything but numb or a mess! I want to give my children the life of happiness, love and security that they deserve, but I don't know how! I have no skills. What do I do for a job to provide for them, I have no car, no help with childcare, and I am so scared. I just wanted to be a mommy and stay home till they went to school, but the school district we are in is horrible, but it is where we are, so I know that they must go back there in the fall.

WHY!!!!!!!!!

kl,

Everything you just said

I went through.

And my husband never even left me for the OW.


You are feeling normal feelings in this extraordinarily difficult time.

I felt rejected. - normal. Your husband has been having an affair. It is normal to feel "less than" at this time in your life. It does NOT make it true that youARE "less than". Just because you feel something does not make the feeling into reality. (Look at your WH for proof of that - just because he is in a fantasy that he feels is true, does not make it true!)

I felt lost and confused. - normal. This doesn't make it easier, but to know that this is a normal reaction to such a huge earthquake in your life, that you aren't losing your mind, should make you feel a bit calmer.

I felt numb. Right at about your timeline, I felt numb. I think my mind and body were worn out from all the emotions, all the gut-wrenching, crying, worry, thinking, working, and all the rest. I think this is just your body's way of trying to stop things for a bit, to take a rest. You just "numb out", in order to take a break.

I felt disconnected. I sometimes looked at people and thought, "I don't think they have any idea what I am going through. They do not connect with me, and I don't connect to them." People around me had no idea what I wanted (I'm not so sure I did either).

Your family's reaction? Normal. They are doing what they believe is the thing they need to do to defend you, to stand up against his behavior, and to rescue you. They think that they need to get him away from you, to protect you. What might be good is to just let them know that you just need their love, and that you don't want them to say negative things about him right now - that it isn't helping you heal or make smart decisions. That you need love and support, but not negative shots at him. Tell them that any talk about him or his behavior for now is off limits - that it only makes things worse, and you are in Plan B, and explain what that means. It will at least put them in your camp for that. Tell them that even if they don't support your decision, they need to respect it for your health and emotional well-being.

I was on a rollercoaster. Sometimes, that rollercoaster started out in the morning fine, but two hours later went up or down. There seemed no predicting it. What I can promise you is that this rollercoaster tends to spread out, that the hills flatten out, the valleys are not as deep, and the twists and turns become much more predictable and you learn to go with them much better. I promise.

I was angry. D a m n skippy.

I cried.

I spent too much time thinking about it, but there seemed to be no way around doing that. The affair occupied the very front part of my thoughts, and there was no eliminating it. The best thing I did was to learn and read about it, so that I came to understand that what I was feeling was NORMAL - and so that I could learn what to expect NEXT. Because there is a fairly predictable pattern of recovering, depending on the process you are going through.

I felt alone. But I learned I wasn't alone. The folks here are here night and day. When nobody seems to be around, well, that isn't quite true. The lurkers are reading, and you can always go back through many many many pages of posts and read story after story - and learn so much about how this affair business plays out.

Sunflower told you that she felt much like you do. That is true. Her story of recovery is very inspiring. Her husband left, and it looked like it was completely over. A done deal. Then, it all turned around. There are so many stories like that on the boards.

I guess I just want to tell you that your feelings are normal, and that it is okay to be angry, hurt, devastated, and to cry. It is also okay to have the moments of laughter - it isn't betraying or ignoring the problems to have those moments, you aren't forgetting about the problems if you have good moments. Sometimes I would forget to do that, or I thought that if I took the time to have a good moment that I was somehow "not working on the problem". It is important to take time for good things throughout this process - or you can lose yourself in it.

We are praying for you. And while you may be having a crisis of faith in God, HE NEVER WAVERS IN HIS FAITH IN YOU. He will wait for you, always. He knows you are there, and has His hand out, holding yours, forever. Just as you always watch over your children, He watches over His.

SB

SB-
I know that you are right and I know that what you are telling me is the truth, I just need to believe! Most of the time I do and I have faith and hope and am doing good, but then those times hit like yesterday and I am so low that I just can't even breathe!

Well, the other bit of news is that NC has been broken. The attorney said I had to in good conscience do the right thing and notify my husband that we were going out of town. I did that this morning after I posted to you all. Call was wonderful we talked a lot and I know that I shouldn't have, but we did and we opened up to one another and shared and I told him what the OW's daughter said to me and he was upset because she told him when he talked to her that it was me that got nasty and she just responded and gave back!
He wants to see the children and I before we go, and I asked him some very direct questions and said that I wanted him to think about them before he saw us: What are you going to do to be a better man/father for them? What are you willing to sacrifice for your children and their well being emotionally and otherwise, What are you willing to do to correct and change what he has done to hurt all of us? He said they were excellent questions and the last one that I asked him was: Will it make more difference to these questions for you to see your children now in your selfishness when you say YOU want to or to wait till we get back and you have really had time to think about what you are willing and going to do? He asked me to call him back tonight and he would let me know.
He apologized for the support problem he said that he had to get some of the bills on his end caught up and that is why he paid me out of the line of credit.
So much was said, he doesn't know who to talk to because everyone thinks that he is a jerk and an idiot, and that everyone doesn't understand. I said I really do understand and want to understand, but that will require some sacrifices on his behalf in order to get that. I also told him I found a marriage retreat (which I have) for us to go and get help and try to heal ourselves and our marriage. I reiterated that I was right here standing strong for him and us and that I know that this was going to be a very long and difficult journey, but that I have already been taking a hard, too hard at times, look at my mistakes and how I didn't meet his emotional needs and pushed him away and made his adultery easier. He said he had a laundry list if I wanted it of all the things that I had done wrong, and I said that I would graciously take them and look at how I could grow in those areas, if he would also be willing to sit down and really look at the list and think about his actions and how I reacted and then write a list of the positive/good things that I did for him. I explained to him that I could also choose to see the negative and bad things that he has done only, but I choose to see the good things and focus on those in order to save myself and our children from believing a lie. All of us make mistakes and do things that annoy the other, but the choice is ours whether we talk about them or allow them to let Satan get a foothold into us and clearly H chose to let Satan get him. I also told him it made me very sad to see that he had chosen to give me back his Bible, and he gasped and said I have been looking for that and didn't know what happened to it, I didn't mean to give it back and don't know how it got in there. He seemed genuine, but he is still in his sin, so I don't know how much genuine there really is!
Please pray for us, the kids want him to choose to wait, but if he wants to see them today before we leave then I will honor that because I want him to trust me and not think that I am using them as a pawn, which I genuinely am not! Where does this put me I guess I really have to finish the plan B letter but since he clearly doesn't understand because of no exposure to MB and their principles, is that where I need to go, I think that he needs to understand that I will not allow him to suck off of us and her emotionally, but in telling him No Contact he takes that literally and gets angry and doesn't contact the children either. He said that he has thought about and wanted to send notes and letters/emails, but he doesn't know what the rules are and doesn't want to do the wrong thing or upset me/them. So, where do I go from here?

Please finish your Plan B letter and post it here, then give it to him.

I really think it is a mistake to try to reason with a WS. He will just justify in his mind that his adultery is okay.

Go on a little vacation and get some perspective. I will continue praying for you and your family, and if it is okay, will ask prayers from my women's bible study group.

He said today that there is no way to justify his actions, he just knows that he doesn't love me anymore, and he is in another relationship and realizes that it is wrong but it is where he is.

I don't want to reason with him. I just want some sanity and peace. I am leaving tomorrow evening for North Carolina with my parents and children. Husband said that was okay for us to go. I am not really looking forward to it, after the "intervention" session last night. I know that they love me and don't want to see me hurting like this but I am so love me through it don't holler at me and make me feel worse about myself. They started hollering and so I started hollering and it was ugly, they made some valid points, but then they also just blamed and said it was my fault that they don't respect my husband- that I would complain and then they would tell me what they thought. True in some instances, but on other occassions my mom would say that my husband would never be like my dad (loving, attentive, involved, active parent) I recognize that due to the environment that my husband grew up in that was not the model of love that he knows, but that doesn't mean that he is a bad man or that he doesn't love his children. Yes, he is selfish and selfcentered, aren't we all if we really take a good hard look, but H's problem was that as his sin and guilt grew so did the selfishness. I can't blame my family or my husband for their feelings, but they are all wrong. It isn't about H or me it is about the children and doing the right thing for them. So, I am going on this "vacation" with them and I know that it will NOT be the break that I need or want, but I will be getting away from here and all the memories and chances of running into "them"

As soon as I get on the road tomorrow and have a wifi for my laptop I will post my revised Plan B letter, I believe I need somehow to address visitation with the children, but they (kids) don't want to see him while he is still such a mess (physical changes and lies and things)it really frightens them, the baby doesn't care, he doesn't know who he is, so he is fine, but the older two do know and are able but afraid to tell him what and how they feel. Then it makes me look bad, but they are lying to themselves and him if they don't be honest! It is just doing them more damage.

Please- ask your bible study to pray, we need them and appreciate them. I know what you mean about changing my prayer and I have noticed that it had already changed to be Lord, break him and have your way with him. I appreciate all of you and I am sorry for acting like an idiot yesterday. I withdrew from my master's class today, I got an A in the first one, but this second one, I couldn't even concentrate or read the papers. It was the research class for my thesis, I just have too much on my plate and need to focus on the kids and me for now. Job and money and things will come. Time for healing, and to be still, but I really don't know what that means or how to be still?

klb - "everyone" doesn't include me. I am sure that there are a few others on MB who might also exclude themselves from "everyone."

Having said that, I DO know the hopeless feeling and the "Job-like" friends who are reacting and telling you things that upset you.

If you don't think so, would you like me to list the times during my own 6 year recovery where I "felt" ready to "toss in the towel?"

Here's the "secret," such as it is.

Stand ready to be tossed into the fiery furnace or into the lion's den because you choose to believe God above all earthly things. THE primary issue right now is your husban's soul. So let me ask you a direct question. Would you be willing to die if you knew that your death would result in your husband's conviction of his sin and his repentance and return to God?


From your friend's description of your husband, and from what your husband said to you, the fantasy is crumbling and he is feeling "trapped" by his choice and sees no way out of it. Soon the OW will tire of that and the affair will end.



P.S. whereabout's in NC are you going to be vacationing?


God bless.

That's why they call it the rollercoaster. This is the safest place to be when you're at the low points of that lovely ride. You'll be okay. I'm sure you will. God is in control.

Family and friends don't want you to be hurt more. They have a way of making you feel awful though. When my ex ran off with the OW, suddenly my friends and family all started telling me how they didn't know how I put up with him as long as I did. Well, it didn't comfort me at ALL. It just made me feel worse about things.

Try to enjoy your time away. Relax and regroup. I will ask my bible study group to start praying for you. They were the ones who prayed for me when I couldn't pray for myself.

The fantasy might be crumbling, but I need advice BADLY. WH came to see kids before we leave tomorrow and kids confronted him and told them how they feel and started crying and left and went into the house. WH and I talked and it got ugly I asked what sacrifices and pain he is feeling for his actions and for "providing" for his children. I said you are barely getting us by month to month and yet you complain when we see you out buying cigarettes and sodas and candies! He said what he does with what is left is his business, and I said it is our business too, there are a lot of bills and debts that we/you created that need to be taken care of, he said that I should send them his way they can all get in line. He got angrier saying that he is 2 mos behind on truck payment and 3 mos behind on 2 credit cards and 2 no credit no interest credit lines that are due this month and on and on, and I said yeah so I have it too and we now due to your lies have 8,000ish in medical bills. He said and let me guess I am responsible for that too. I said yes you were the policy holder. Great he said and I asked what he was going to do about his relationship with his kids and if he was just going to leave like that walk out on them again. He said he hasn't been there for them for a very long time, that I have said that before and I said no, I said that you had become erratic in your attention and neglectful with your promises. He said whatever I am never coming back and it is clear they want nothing to do with me so have the papers drawn up they're yours. I am done I am never coming back to you, I have never loved you and I don't love you now. I tried to stop him and he shoved me and started talking nasty and I hit him and he kicked me and then the fight began. He got in the car and as he was driving away I reminded him that he did this and he is getting the fruits of his actions. He said whatever I hate you! I said I don't I am disappointed in the man you have become. Then he drove away.

I called him and left a message saying that it didn't have to end like this and that I will have the papers started that he asked for.

What now? I am okay physically I think, I am bruised and hurting, but more than anything I am sad for him. To think that this is the despicable thing that he has become. Please pray for me I notified the lawyer of what happened, so I will probably hear from him tomorrow. I am staying with my parents, so I am not alone, but I am concerned about the house!

{{{{{{{{KLB}}}}}}}}

I have not had the chance to catch up on what is going entirely, but you are getting absolutely the best advice around.

Honey, listen to them get. They know what they are talking about. You need to take care of yourself and leave the WW to G-d. G-d is hurting over this more than you could ever.

Your FAITH is so STRONG. Your TRUST is there.

I remember, so deeply the need to do something, to get him to react to something, to figure it out. But KLB, this isn't your battle anymore. It's between G-d and your WH. You have to step out of it.

Take care of yourself financially, and listen to the vets on here. They know what they are talking about. They have come before us. They have fought the battle and understand what is going on. We can't, our emotions are too raw.

Do you know the Serenity Prayer?
G-d grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change.
The courage to change the things I can.
And the wisdom to know the difference.

You will be ok KLB. I NEVER believed it, but it happens.. Just take care of yourself.

You need to write your Plan B letter. You are making the mistake of thinking that he is a reasonable person. He isn't - he is an addict. He will abandon his kids, abandon you, sell his mother, whatever it takes to keep his drug.

You need to have no contact. Your talk with him was full of disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts. And I DON'T BLAME YOU. But stop it now and have no contact. Send your letter and let your attorney handle things.

ForeverHers,
Charlotte or more specifically Concord. I will have my laptop,so I will be checking in periodically. I withdrew from my masters class. I finished the first one with an A, but then all the chaos started swallowing me, so I decided that I need to concentrate on me and the kids for now and try to figure out what I really want to be when I grow up instead of just frantically and desperately trying to find a way to provide for the kids, God will provide, he will show me the way, I need to learn how to be still and as for the letting go, Well, tonight sealed the deal, I am done, I will pray for God to have his way with WH but I am done, NC permanently NC! I hate the man/thing that he has become he is drinking and smoking and has that vile OW and her teenage foulmouthed daughter, and ENORMOUS debt that is starting to break him. Pour it on God Pour it on! I don't mean that in a vindictive way, I just love my husband as he was and want to see him get his life together!
I must go get some ice and tylenol, I am hurting and need to get some sleep, we are leaving tomorrow evening and will stay the night in Harrisonburg, VA and then on to Charlotte in the am on Friday we are hoping to arrive before noon.
Thank you for loving and caring even when I don't! Thank you for your prayers and direction. Any wisdom on a book that I could be studying for now to help me fix me? I tried his needs her needs and all i did was cry. Not ready for that yet, need something focused more on me. I just finished reading Job, still don't really get it, but so totally can relate to his plight and to his friends "help" I have been reading a chapter a day of Proverbs, and reading through the Psalms. I found a fiction book to read on the trip called The Long Road Home, it is by Tommy Tenney and is a retelling of the book of Ruth. So far it is good. What can I be doing to help me find who I am, what I love, what brings me happiness (I know my joy is from the Lord, I may misplace it from time to time, but it is always there) Can you reccomend a bible study online or something or can you challenge us with a study on Godly marriage and holding steady in the storm?

Wow, that was a bad scene. I remember going through a similiar scene with my husband. It ended with him screaming red faced, I don't love you, I've never loved you!!

Believer is right. Get into Plan B ASAP. You need to end all contact with this monster. He IS a monster right now, not the man you married. Leave him to himself. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY WILL GET THROUGH TO HIM RIGHT NOW.

See the lawyer, get your ducks in row. He is self-destructing and you need to get out of the way. If you need to file to get support and visitation lined up and to protect your remaining assets go ahead and do that. You can always stop the lawsuit down the road as long as he doesn't countersue.

Plan B, Plan B, Plan B. Go very very dark and continue your prayers. I see an unraveling happening.

((((KLB))))

Hi KLB,

I'm glad you are alright after all you have been through tonight. I am so sorry for what is happening in your life. I was so worried about you last night.

Try to pick up a copy of Beth Moore's "Get Out of That Pit" for your time away. I think you will find comfort in it. I pray for you always and will look forward to hearing from you while you are away. Relax and have fun.

God's Blessings,

Say

KLB,

This may feel like a 2X4 so prepare yourself.

You have got to stop all this drama!

Pick your plan and WORK IT. Since you are not yet in Plan B, you should be Plan Aing. You Plan A right up until the MOMENT you deliver your Plan B letter.

You are floundering without any plan and making things worse. Look up the thread on this board about Plan C (Plan Confusion). That is where you are right now, and you've got to get out of it if you want any sanity and peace.

The whole point of Plan A is to leave a positive taste with the wayward when you move into Plan B. Do you think your last interaction with WH will leave a positive taste?

I don't think so either.

The problem is, you tried to jump into Plan B without having your ducks in a row. I advised you a while back to get things READY for Plan B, but to keep Plan Aing until then. But you went and told him "no contact" before you were ready.

You have sabotaged the little bit of Plan A you had going, and you are ruining your credibility for Plan B because you don't have yourself truly ready for it.

You've got to take a step back and calm down.

You are allowing your emotions to control your actions. That has to stop. You've got to get into a plan and then stick with that plan.



Coming here to vent is good. That's how you get your emotions under control for the next encounter with WS.

No more bouncing around between plans.

Marriage Builders will give you the best chance at recovering your marriage. But you have got to work the plans.

So, go on this vacation with your family. Tell them there is to be no talk about WS/affair/divorce. Tell them you need a mental break from it all.

Then DON'T talk to them about it. Talk here. Vent here. People IRL are never going to "get it". They haven't lived it and MB is totally counter-intuitive (the Plans don't SEEM like the right thing to do at first glance).

Take this break. Prepare your Plan B letter. FIND AN INTERMEDIARY. Secure your finances. Set up a visitation schedule (if he chooses to miss the planned visitation, that's his issue, not yours).

Then when ALL of that is ready, deliver your letter and then STAY COMPLETELY DARK.

The fantasy is no where near crumbling and you need to come to terms with that. Your WS is cake eating and is no where near ready to come home or to go on a retreat or

Stop trying to reason with your WH.

Stop trying to educate your WH.

As long as he is involved in an active affair, you CANNOT reason with him. You cannot explain him into sanity.

You are making yourself look desperate and THAT is NOT good.

Calm down. Simply smile and nod at his fog babble. Everything he speaks right now is babble. You cannot break through the fog until his affair is OVER and he has gone through withdrawal.

Your interaction with your WS was full of love busters. You are giving him every reason NOT to come home. You are making OW look very attractive while you LB him and appear desperate to get him back.

He has this interaction with you and then runs to OW. STOP HELPING HER.


Here's what you need to do right now.

1. ANY interaction you have with WS until you deliver Plan B letter should consist of pleasantries. DO NOT discuss your marriage or the affair. Smile and be pleasant. Act like you are dealing with an acquaintance NO MATTER WHAT he says or does. Do not let him see you cry ever again during any of this. Do not beg, plead, reason, or educate him. Do not listen to any fog babble.

2. Go on vacaction and DO NOT talk with family about your marriage or the affair. Tell them you need a mental break. Then STICK TO IT. Refuse to discuss it if they bring it up; and DO NOT bring it up yourself.

3. Prepare Plan B letter and post it here. DO NOT deliver it until you get the OK from the people here.

4. Consult a lawyer and secure your finances.

5. Write up a visitation schedule to attach to your Plan B letter. This schedule should include a drop off/pick up that keeps YOU dark. You can even include daily phone calls at schedule times.

6. Find an intermediary and get them here to read about Plan B.


7. If you cannot stay calm when you are interacting with him, then excuse yourself politely and get away from him...all the while smiling.

It's time to suck it up and get control of yourself. Your children are depending on you to be the grown up.

You CAN do this. But you must set your mind to following the plans.

OK?

Did you call the police????

You need this abuse on file.

Has he ever hit/pushed/shoved/grabbed you before this?

But by saying, "I just don't love you anymore and am in another relationship" IS justifying his actions.

His excuse for his affair is that he just doesn't love you anymore. That's no excuse for an affair; there is no excuse for an affair. If he really feels that way, he could have sought a divorce, not an affair.

KLB, I didn't realize I had logged in with my old username, sexymamabear.

I just want to be sure you know that I am SunflowerSmile.

I have stopped using my old name, and didn't realize I logged in that way.

This statement alone shows just how wayward his mindset is.

You should not be responding to this fog babble.

He is justifying his affair right here, because he has a "laundry list of all the things you've done wrong."

Give me a break!

There isn't one thing on his list that can justify scr@wing someone else and abandoning his wife and children.

Don't feed the monster by even considering responding to this horse manure.

AMEN sexymamabear!!!!!


kl, listen to her - she has been there, done that.




I would email your husband and ask him to forward his laundry list of my faults. I actually asked my husband for his list of my faults. He wasn't really very forthcoming with it. He gave a verbal list of a few things, and they stung. Still do. But when I gave him my list back

He was indignant that I would even CONSIDER THAT HE MIGHT POSSIBLE HAVE A FAULT AT ALL.

You cannot reason with a wayward.

You see, they are perfect people, living in a perfect romance, with a perfect soulmate, in a perfect future to come, within a perfect fantasty....

IF ONLY THAT DARNED OLD REALITY WOULD STOP SLAPPING THEM UPSIDE THE HEAD!

You are the REALITY - so they don't like it much, when you show up. The kids, the job, the money trouble, the in-laws, the house, the bills, the old friends, the old hangouts, the old TV shows, the places you used to go or things you used to do....

That's what they think they will escape in this fantasy affair of theirs. See, they are all into this "new" and "fuzzy" world, where they are seen as perfect by their affair partner, where they can do no wrong.

Their "old" life, their families, their old friends - why, that's the healthy dose of reality they just cannot seem to shake off, no matter how hard they try. That's why he says things like "everybody thinks I'm a jerk". He KNOWS that the reality is that - everybody thinks he's a jerk. So he's sticking over there in affairland until it just runs out of gas, because until it does, it is the only place where someone doesn't think he's a jerk.


If you think about it - the affair partner is the ONLY person who really shares this world entirely. That is the one person who was in it from the start, who is equally as deep in the LIE. The partner in crime is the one they hang on to, and until one of them "breaks" or reaches the point where they realize that their only salvation is to return to the land of REALITY, the two will hold onto each other. After all, they have a kind of sick investment in making the other one believe the fantasy, don't they? As long as the other one stays in with them, they can keep going. If you break one, you break the other.

That is why exposing BOTH sides of the affair is important.


Go on your trip. Read the BE STILL thread, which THANKFULLY!!!! SOMEONE BUMPED UP!!!!!

And listen to SMB.



BTW, my husband once said these words to me:

"I don't love you. I have never loved you. I never will love you."

He said those words and walked out the door. 3 months later, he was moving his stuff back in. That was about 29 years or so ago.........


SB

ahhh Concord. One of my "offices" is in Concord and I generally go there about once a week, over near the hospital.




There are lots of books, but it might be more helpful to know what you might be trying to "fix" about yourself before recommending a lot of books.

If you just want a "general list" of books, etc., that I found helpful in my own recovery efforts I can give you a list that I posted on one of my threads about 5 years ago. Perhaps there might be something in that list that strikes your fancy and that you might find helpful in the "fixing" department.


The Bible
“Surviving An Affair”, by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr. and Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers
“Fall In Love, Stay In Love”, by Willard F. Harley, Jr.
“Torn Asunder”, by Dave Carder
“The Divorce Remedy”, by Michele Weiner Davis
“Magnificent Marriage”, by Gordon MacDonald
“Rebuilding Your Broken World”, by Gordon MacDonald
“After the Affair”, by Janis Abrahms Spring, Ph.D.
“Forgive & Forget, Healing The Hurts We Don’t Deserve”, by Lewis B. Smedes
“The God Who Hears”, by W. Bingham Hunter
“Intended for Pleasure”, by Ed Wheat, M.D. and Gaye Wheat
“Idols Of The Heart, Learning to Long for God Alone”, by Elyse Fitzpatrick
“Marriage, Whose Dream?”, by Paul David Tripp
“Thankfulness Even When It Hurts”, by Susan Lutz
“God’s Love, Better than Unconditional”, by David Powlison
“ ‘Just One More’ When Desires Don’t Take No for an Answer”, by Edward T. Welch
“What Do You Do When Your Marriage Goes Sour?”, by Jay E. Adams
“What Do You Do When You Know That You’re Hooked?”, by Jay E. Adams
“What Do You Do When Anger Gets The Upper Hand?”, by Jay E. Adams.


God bless.

Glad to hear your update and that you are finally getting a well deserved rest. Relax and get strong.

Have you prepared your Plan B letter? Did you notify the police of his abuse?

Still praying for you and your family.

The police weren't notified, but I ended up needing x-rays and contacted the local District Justice, but since I was headed out of town on vacation there wasn't enough time to get a PFA, and no one really thought that it was necessary since he only really left a few bruises and didn't hit me in the face!

I am resting and I am dreading going home. It feels so nice to have some distance and be here with my sister and her children and my kids are doing SO Great. They are both asking why we need to go home and if we can just go and move here. I like that they are happy and healing, but unfortunately now just isn't our time.

I am still praying for God to have his way with my H, but I really don't think at this point I have anything left in me. I am afraid of him on top of the hurt and betrayal and lies and on and on, so I think I want to just move on. If God ever does change him, well then, but now, I just don't know if I have it in me to hold onto nothing. I have done a lot of praying and searching and thinking and a lot has come out about my marriage, that has made me really think that it isn't really what I thought, but it rarely ever is for the one that is faithful.

The biggest controversy here has been that my BinL wants to email my in laws with the pictures of my body and confront them with helping and sticking by him like they have been. I feel like that could be good, but at the same time seeing how they feel about me and that they are the ones helping him to fight me, I really don't think it will do anything but get the response of "she deserved it!" Any thoughts?

SS I am still pondering and sorting throught your posts. I really thought that I was ready. I had my intermediaries I had had them on the site and was trying to educate them and I had my letter and posted it and got no feedback on the revisions, so I thought that after Memorial Day's fiasco, that we were finished and moving to Plan B. I was fine with no contact, until the lawyer who doesn't care to know about or hear about MB said I must be the one to contact H and ask permission to go away with the children. I am trying very hard to do the right thing and the best thing, I am trying to learn and grow, but I don't know what that is often. I know that your posts contain a lot of good information, but I am not trying to vascillate between the two plans, I had NO contact with him for 1 month and was perfectly fine with continuing that way, I really didn't want it. I can't stand the sight or even thought of that evil disgusting monster that has taken over my husband.
My plan B letter revisions are following.....

My Dearest WH,

It is with a very heavy heart that I am writing you this letter. I want to apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Her possible. I was so consumed with the needs of our children, the demands of our home, and being pregnant and very sick, that I neglected my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most to listen and encourage you in the stress and frustration and long hours that you were enduring to provide a good life for the children and I. We are now suffering from your choices.

WH, I am willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that I have made in the past, and believe the past teaches and guides us, but does not define who we are in the future. I want to make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. A marriage, in which we both feel loved, safe, cherished and free to pursue our goals and dreams. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then, there will never again be a reason for us to separate.
I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. I want you as my best friend like you had been for so many years. I want to be there to encourage and watch you achieve your dreams and goals, and have you experience joy in seeing our children and I achieve our goals and dreams too. There are so many beautiful and good things about our marriage and family.

Until you establish no contact with her, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends, ?????, have agreed to be an intermediary for us, if you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through ??????. As soon as you are willing to permanently end your affair, severe all contact, and are willing to establish a plan for recover, then and only then we can discuss our future together.


Please respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know about the enormous suffering the children and I have endured because of your adultery. It is too painful to be around you while you are still continuing the affair. It is causing my remaining love for you to erode and I must protect that. This separation is a necessity to preserve my love for you and, and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery! It is in no means meant as a punishment.


I loved you when we married, and I continue to love you right up to this day.

With All My Love and Commitment, your wife,
KLB

I still have no intermediaries, after the latest incident NO ONE wants anything to do with him! Everyone thinks that it is time to totally move on. I am struggling with this too. This letter sounds so like the me before he hit me and now, now I just don't know! Please help me!

KB - JMHO

This is no longer JUST about his affair. He has a violence issue. Your plan b letter does nothing to address this. W Harley and I discussed domestic violence issues once - he and I disagreed strongly on which was more devastating to a marriage and it's the ONLY thing I have ever disagreed with him on.

I don't know that the Plan B letter is appropriate right now. But I think a deep dark silence IS appropriate, along with a RO when and if you choose to move back home. I think you might want to consider growing where you are planted - right where you are. If he comes to you, asking you to come home, the violence must be addressed with some anger management and appropriate remorse behaviors before you consider moving home.

KaylaAndy,
I agree with you totally about the letter not being appropriate anymore, but don't know how to deal with that. I have tried to find examples, but am coming up empty. I really don't know what to do or what to say. I personally want to say nothing!

I will be seeing and dealing with H on July 18th for the support hearing and he told me to get custody papers ready. Of course let the one with no income and no job be the one to have to pay for it! I am just so empty and sad!

Any help on how to edit the letter would be appreciated...

KLB

You have every right to say NOTHING to him. Has he ever been violent before this incident?

I would keep thinking about Plan B, and refining the letter, and getting your ducks in a row. When you start getting child and spousal support, it will be easier for you to make plans. And you don't have that much longer until court.

By the way, I would file a restraining order against him before the court date.

Believer,
No he has never before been violent, he has always had a temper, but always left to walk or go vent and then come back calm to talk, I have been wondering about drug usage since he left home. He has been wearing sunglasses an awful lot and doesn't even like to take them off indoors. His behaviors have been eratic too, one minute kind and sorrowful and sad, the next angry and full of hatred. I don't really understand wayward behaviors much so is this typical???

As for the restraining order they said that there was no grounds for a restraining order or from a protection from abuse? I wish I understood more, but I am trying to learn and get more information. I will be returning late Sunday night from NC to PA and will be home from Sun to Thurs and then we are going to my parents boat again for the 4th. I am grateful for the time away from the home the kids and I have had a wonderful time and sleep is WONDERFUL! I have been getting anxiety attacks again thinking about going home, but at the same time they are less severe than they were before.

WH had a conscience attack, he finally put last weeks support in and it cleared on Thurs! Everyone(family and friends) thinks he is scared because he definitely crossed a line, I don't know I think that he is just doing and doesn't care at all. Again don't know what he could possibly be thinking anymore.

Any thoughts on the B-in-L situation with e-mailing the pics and a letter to my in laws, he asked again last night. I am still torn, but would like to hear any advice for or against doing this.

As for the plan b letter, I am not having any luck finding an intermediary, I have asked several people and none of them think that there needs to be any further intervention or anything between us and I have tried to explain what their purpose and role would be, but honestly all fam and friends are so angry with H that they don't want to have anything to do with this at all. They can't understand why I would even harbor any sentiment or thoughts toward a possible reconcilliation EVER. They said they want all ties to be severed and for me to move on toward plan d. That is all well and good, but Plan D requires money, money that I don't have!

Any thoughts on how to revise and address the abuse in my plan b letter?

KLB

KB, this is your life, not theirs. The decision of whether to stay in your marriage is yours alone.

As far as the violence goes, if it's an isolated incident, then I would chalk it up to his wayward stupidity. It does not excuse it and you still need to be wary and protect yourself and the children. If you have a custody hearing coming up, I would definitely document the abuse. Your kids don't need to be around their dad if there's any chance he'd go off on them.

I don't know what to tell you about the Plan B letter since you can't find an intermediary. It kind of defeats the purpose of no contact if there is no intermediary. Since your BIL is so gung-ho on exposing what your WH did to the inlaws, would HE consider being your intermediary? You could tell him that you're not necessarily trying to recover your marriage (that's the truth at this point right?) but BY LAW you must maintain contact as far as the children. His acting as intermediary would help protect you and the kids.

((((KB))))

Hi PM,
My B-in-L would be fine except for the fact that they are long distance. They are in N. Carolina and I am in PA, they really weren't too keen on all the long distance calls and such.

I have been praying about it, and will keep you all posted. Our first and only scheduled hearing is July 18th for support. Neither one of us have taken any action for custody hearing or divorce. The reason I haven't is that the lawyer wants a $1000 retainer and then $265/hour there after. I just don't have that kind of money right now. I have my money I got together for plan b, but that has dwindled a little.

I agree about this being my life, I am having a hard time dealing with my emotions since the "fight" with him. I want to believe and fight for my marriage, but I am having a very difficult time believing that it could really ever happen looking at where we are and what has been going on with my interactions with my H. He seems more determined than ever that even if he isn't with her that he hates me and that he will never consider the possibility of ever coming back home with the children and I. I see that as pretty firm that it is me that is/was the problem.

KLB

klb - These thoughts are quite normal. In fact, I'd be rather worried about you if you didn't have these thoughts. The "point" is that in his current state of mind, you wouldn't want this "him" as your husband, and you know it. But you also know the man that you married and you love THAT man, so there is a war in your mind over "what's best?"





klb, YOU are NOT the problem. You were not the problem and you still are not the problem. The problem is SIN and the entrapment in sin of your husband. "Five will get you Ten" that Satan is "playing with his mind" too. He is thinking he has been so bad that he "can't" be forgiven and "can't" return to the marriage. So he is reacting in anger over the "situation" of his own making.

But the most important thing to remember is "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

It BEGINS with his relationship with God, not with you or the children. He is acting, in many ways, like the "prodigal son" and has yet to reach the point where he KNOWS he needs forgiveness. He, like the prodigal son, may even reach that point but think he is "unworthy" of forgiveness and restoration. He is "too close to the trees (or the pig pen)" to see that ALL of us are unworthy of God's love and forgiveness. But NONE of us "worthy" on our own. We have ALL sinned, and yet through Jesus God grants us forgiveness because of what Jesus has already paid for us.

What does God want? He wants a broken and contrite heart. God is "interested" in your marriage for sure, but He is MOST interested in your husband's spirit. Your husband has professed a belief in Jesus, and if that was a sincere acceptance of Jesus, he cannot "escape" God. But God will let him go through some "tough times" of his own making if he wants to continue running from God. Jonah found that out the "hard way" too.

YOU are the "faithful brother" in the prodigal son story. YOU are being a parent and a wife, doing what you do because you LOVE, and also because it is the "Role" that God has assigned to you. You love God, you love your children, you love your husband even though he is acting like a heathen. It IS "unfair" that you are being hurt because of sin. But the "unfairness" is not the issue, obedience to God despite the trials and temptations IS the issue. Standing ready with forgiveness, in the same manner in which God has forgiven you of your own sins, is what you do. He MAY leave, but God will NEVER leave you. YOU, like your husband, CAN "kick God out" and live as if God doesn't exist, but you KNOW better. Even if your husband were to divorce you, you KNOW that God will always be with you and that Romans 8:28-29 is REAL, because God is faithful to His promises to His own.

Keep praying for your husband. Keep praying for God to make your husband miserable with his choices and with the OW. Keep praying for Godly people to STAND FOR God and humble submission and obedience to God, even if they must "confront" your husband with the truth.

Practice endurance, especially on the days when you just want to "give up," because you WILL have those days.

While I am not "excusing" his hitting you, from what you've said he's never done that sort of thing before. So it's a "good bet" that what was behind it was his own struggle with KNOWING what he is doing is very wrong and the anger that is resulting from his struggle within his mind. It's another reason why you need to "keep your distance from him" and let God "handle him." The "Plan B" you are in is SUPPOSED to make his choices FULLY real to him, to let him get ALL of his supposed "needs" met ONLY by the shrew who also has NO respect for marriage.

Hang in there, klb. In the midst of a hurricane it can be "hard to believe" that it WILL end and that CALM will return, a new course can be charted that will arrive at the destination you wanted even if you were blown off course and have to start from a new "starting point."

God bless.

Am I really in Plan B? SS seems to think that I am doing both A/B and that I wasn't ready. I thought that I was ready, but then the intermediaries quit, I had no contact for a full month and didn't want any contact, and still don't, but is that really plan b without the "letter" I have been confused by this. I posted my letter and only got one response to it saying that it doesn't really address the situation as it is now, but I am not sure how to really change it.

I agree with all that you have said, I am praying for God to have his way with my husband and for H to be broken and miserable and hit the bottom with no where to turn but to God. I do believe that his salvation was real, and that right now he is a double-spirited man, so I am trying to keep on keeping on. The anxiety and nervousness has been creeping back, we are heading home tomorrow, the children have been anxious and don't want to go, they have been so wonderful here and talking and relaxing and I hate to take them back to a place that they associate with all the sadness, but it is our home for right now better or worse it is our home and I am trying to get excited and foster that with them about the things we are going to do when we get home, but they just don't care, they want to be where they are safe and have peace. I get that, I want that too,and I have explained to them that it will come we must make it that way at home too. I still miss my H, but the pain and loss feelings are lessening, it is hard going there and seeing him with someone else and being lonely. I know that I am in the better circumstances and that I have God and my children, but I sometimes find myself longing for that physical companion and friend. I pray that he will find his way out of the mess and darkness that he has wrapped himself in.

We are heading to the Northlake? Mall today to get pictures done of the 5 kiddos. Have a good day.......

KLB

I'm so glad that he sent the support. Maybe his conscience is starting to kick in.

You only have a couple more weeks to get through until the court hearing, and that may wake hubby up. When he figures out he will be supporting his kids and wife and not having money to blow on his affair, he may defog a little.

Happy you are getting some much needed peace.