Thread moved from "In recovery" cos it aint!
Whats the stats and likelihood of Plan B working?



10/05/08

Thanks again to all for replies.
Update...

This week has been hard work. She has been working long hours all week but we seem to have been getting on real well. Despite agreeing for her to move out next week she has been making a real effort to get on. We've been having time together and enjoying each other's company. Lots of tender little messages via SMS even while at work. Even discussed in some detail about moving away from the area.

Today is Saturday and she came to me today and said that she is so sorry for what has happened and wants to make amends. Said that she hates OM and feels pure guilt for all that has happened. She said she wanted me to know I'm a good man and realises she wants to be with me forever. She then asked me to come to bed for a while and we shared some intimate time together in the afternoon.

Our son came over this eve and we sat and had dinner together and had a great time at the table chatting and joking. After dinner she said she was going to get something from her car then disappeared off up the road. Guess where she went? Yup, straight over to OM's house for a little after dinner activity.

Anyway, I called her up on her cellphone and surprisingly she answered. She was there with him and on speakerphone I asked her why she had gone there. She said that she has realised that she is in love with him and not me and denied flatly all that we had spoken about and done earlier. Point blank refused to admit it. I asked her to pass the phone to him and she did. I told him that this was all BS and that he is getting told as much BS as I am and that we need to talk. So I headed over to his place for a little tete-a-tete. So guess what now? They wont answer the door! hiding in the backroom I shouted to him not to be a [censored] and come speak to me but I got a call on my cellphone saying to get lost cos they called the cops.

I went back home to chat with my son who is now totally distraught over the whole thing (he is 24 but still our baby).

She finally came home a couple hours after and then announced that things are over between us and although she doesnt want to live with him she is still crazy in love with him and can't find peace or love with me because of it. She says she has tried to be happy with me but she saw him at work on Thursday this week and had a row with him in which he threatened suicide so she went to see him tonight just to make sure he was ok. Poor excuse, I know the reason she had to go there.

She then went up to bed and came back down a short while later to ask me to come to bed too as she misses not having me in the bed with her and still loves me. WTF is all that about? Has she lost her marbles completely? I slept on the couch.

As for exposing it, it's pretty much there already. The whole family is aware on both sides. This doesnt seem to bother her one bit. She has disowned almost all of her own family over it her sisters are not talking to her and even her son has now refused to chat to her. Her mom is still talking to her although she doesnt approve and still chats to me and seems genuinely concerned for my welfare.

I've still not spoken to OM's W yet, mainly because she is out of the picture. She has left him, filed for D and their house is up for sale already. My W has even told me that she has showed no desire for reconciliation. I have her cellphone number so I think I will try and talk to her this week if only to find out what he has told her and vice-versa.

I can totally see it like a crack habit. It's much like that but the problem is that I am pretty screwed in terms of getting her to go cold turkey.

I think need to make a break. I need to get her out of the house and out of my life for a while if only to restore my sanity. My problem is that the house is joint owned so I can't even throw her out legally. So do I leave? If I do leave she has it all. She gets the nice house, the comfortable life and the freedom to see loverboy however she wants. I wouldnt be surprised if she invites him over to sleep in our bed.

Geez I am so mad at her now but strangely still in love. What the [censored] can I do?




10/06/08

Well, I've delivered the PBL and told her what I expect.
1. Stop seeing him.
2. Leave her job.
3. Help make arrangements to move house.
or...
Be gone by the end of the week and dont be contacting me until you can agree to these things.

She point blank refused on the spot to leave her job. Funny because I would've expected him to be the hard one to stop.

Curiously, she said that she knows she has done something really bad and needs to punish herself for it so will move away.

Thank you for your suggestions CV55 and I have included much of your text in my letter. Especially the bits about never being friends and picturing the new life.

Time will tell but I reckon that we have come to the end of the road. Call me pessimistic here but I feel that this is the end for our relationship as she will not abandon him for me. Feeling rather sad and not looking forward to an empty house by the end of the week.

Expose to the OM's wife, just because that is part of the MB plan.

And Plan B DOES work, but you have to go very dark and let her get all of her emotional needs met by him.

I did a plan B, and I was completely dark.
Did not respond to the email he sent. Only used the intermediary, and that was only me replying when they needed to know something, I never sent messages back.
I stopped using my online social networks.
I vanished.

I am in recovery.

Thanks all :-)

Had a blazing row last night. I think the Plan B letter really upset her.

She wrote a note back with some odd stuff in it about being really sorry and that she wants to go live on her own and just be with OM when she needs him but not fair to even let me hang on as I am too good a man for her. She said she wants me to move on and find someone better. It made me weep a little. I responded to her with the fact that I love her, that she is very special to me and that all she has to do is the basic requests of the PBL and we can work on happiness. I also made it clear again that I cannot tolerate anyone else in the picture.

We slept in the same bed but it wasn't comfortable as she was still very shaken by the ultimatum. I am holding together but feeling really scared about the future. I fear losing her but holding my cool because I can't put up anymore even if it means losing her to him.

It's all getting to me a bit and would appreciate some words of encouragement that I've done the right thing.

You come here for advice. Then you do every thing half way.

It's not exposure if you do not tell the OMW.

You are not in plan B if you hand WW a letter then go to sleep in the same bed.

Where is the NC of the plan B?

When you start a plan B you change the locks and get her to leave. If WW will not leave then you leave. You not only do not see her, you cut off all financial support.

That's a plan B.

Let us know when you start plan B.

Hey Bob, trying to keep track of peoples sits around here is a full-time job in itself. Especially harder when I can only get on this site when my W is out!

What you have done takes courage, there are alot of similarities in our sits, yet you have taken that big step of acting on it. I hope things work out for the best whatever happens.

Hey Bob! This is the 1st chance I've gotten to check back with you. It's good you're asking for support. This is really tough stuff. Write as often as you need to in order to get through this, and you will. I'll never forget what an MB buddy told me about 6 months into my hell. He said, "CV, just remember this. In 2 yrs, whether you're with your H or not, you will be in a better place." Those words really helped me and I hope they help you.

One thing I wanted to tell you in Recovery is this. If you are going to go forward with Plan B, do it because you believe it is the right thing to do. You can't go into this because I or others here are telling you to. In saying that, I 100% believe it is the only shot you have to "maybe" save your M. Going back to my crack analogy, your W is not going to give up her crack(OM)until he is out of her life. I'm a counselor and for the past 5 months took a series of workshops on addiction. The similarities are astounding between a drug addict and a WS. Right now your WW is making major decisions while under the influence of all the "in-luv" chemicals in her peabrain. That's why you have to be the sane one. IMO a sane person does not live in the same house with their S who is boinking someone else. That is emotional abuse.

Before I officially knew about my H's A I knew something was up. I knew he was treating me like sh!!. I knew I was sad all the time. I knew he wouldn't talk to me. I knew I felt like he was having an A. And finally I knew that this was not what I signed up for in a M. I knew that I would rather be lonely alone, then lonely in my M. So I told him either we talk or the M is over. That's when the details of the A began to dribble out.

If you are miserable in this sitch, then what do you have to lose? If you go forward with Plan B, live your life. If you feel really depressed get IC and see if an antidepressent will help you cope better. Go out with friends. Exercise. Be the best you that you can be. Be a great dad. Remember that you are a great guy. I mean that! I have met some of the coolest, best men here on MB. Men who are committed and will do what it takes to save their Ms. You're one of those guys and if your W doesn't get it then she doesn't deserve you.

Say "The Serenity Prayer" if it speaks to you. I lived by that prayer and still do. I used to blast the most angry music that I could. I especially enjoyed the Smashing Pumpkins. Do whatever it takes, but live a good life and allow your W to face the consequences of her actions. And no offense to one of the posters here, but I have to disagree. Don't you move out of your house. Don't do anything to make your WW comfy.

You might be sad when she leaves. However, hopefully your sanity will be restored. Hang in there!

Thank you for guidance and CV55 thanks for the support and the faith you've given me, it is much appreciated and heartfelt. Your post gave me hope and strength.

As for where we are, I have given her until the end of the week to make her move and I will stick to that. She has been on leave from work this week and so if she is prepared to give up her job and follow the plan she should not go back when due on Monday but my guess is she will go back. Still not entirely sure what I do if she calls my bluff and says "I aint leaving my job and I aint moving anywhere!".

I know more than one person has said I shouldn't leave but maybe that is the only thing I can do and then cut off financial support for the household. Since we're basically 50% shareholders of the house mortgage I can set up a 50% payment of the mortgage interest and cut out all other bills for the house entirely. Utility bills, insurances etc...

Another problem is that my office is in the home workshop so if I walk from the home I walk from my business and income too.

I'm going away on Friday pm for the weekend with a few friends and my son returning Sunday morn. Maybe that will give her a short period with me not around to think straight. If she is still there when I get back and still in her job sticking to her usual habits, I'm not sure exactly what I do tbh (?).

On the positive side we did have a long and sensible discussion today about how she could find another job and what she should do. This discussion was initiated by her. Not sure if this is her really thinking about how to move along or just a smokescreen but if nothing else it shows it's made her consider the reality of my letter.

In the meantime until Sunday/Monday, so we can survive, I will be restricting contact to the practicalities of living under the same roof. Ideally, we need to sleep apart but I don't see why I should be on the couch again! She refuses to sleep anywhere other than the bed and since I don't see why I should suffer, I'm gonna be stubborn and stick to the bed. Maybe just separate bedsheets might say the right thing

PhilJC, I have read your threads and although your overall sit is very different there are a lot of similarities in behaviour and I guess we're in a similar place on the timeline of events. If you like, drop me a private msg and maybe we can share a few stories.

Bob, glad my post gave you some hope. The big thing to remember is that you, as a BS, do have choices. You can't make her grow up and stop having an A, but you can choose to remove yourself from her sh!!

You wrote:

"Ideally, we need to sleep apart but I don't see why I should be on the couch again! She refuses to sleep anywhere other than the bed and since I don't see why I should suffer, I'm gonna be stubborn and stick to the bed. Maybe just separate bedsheets might say the right thing."

How about telling her this. "WW, I am not comfortable sleeping in the same bed with you knowing you are sleeping with and boinking OM. So I at least hope you can give me the respect and consideration of not sleeping in the same bed with me while you are involved with him."

If she doesn't want to leave, but won't give him up, maybe say something like, "Listen WW, you looovvvve your OM so much, why not go live with him. I really don't want to live in the same house with you, my W, while you are sleeping with someone else. So why not just go ride off into the sunset with OM."

If that doesn't work then maybe legal separation. Others here, more knowledgeable about Plan B hopefully will know more then I do.

Hang tough Bob! Believe it or not, these WSs can actually be quite funny because they're so stupid.

Hi again it's me

Well, I've been away for a few days and left her at home to have a good think about things. Also good to catch up with some old friends, some of whom have been through D and were very supportive of my sit.

On my return I found out she had been in contact with him and although I am fairly sure she did not go to see him I know she made a call to him at his work. Despite a solemn promise that she would not.

Before I left she was positive abt things and said she will give my PBL good thought but the one thing she feels she cannot do is leave the job. My compromise (of sorts) was for her to stay in the company and get a transfer to a different part of the country but she won't even do that so I guess it leaves us with no option.

Anyway, we had a discussion about the practicalities of her living away in a studio apartment so that is how we are going to play it. I'm gonna take over the household bills entirely so she can go get her own place. She is worried about the expense of her own place so I suggested her moving into the empty home with OM which she seemed really p!ssed off about LOL

She has asked me for a couple more days to get the aptmt all arranged so I will just keep out of the way with work and away from home in the eves to give her space to sort out and go.

Should have the place to myself by Weds this week. I guess it will be lonely but better than living on the edge all the time.

Let's see where this goes but que sera que sera huh?

Hi Bigbob! It seems there is some confusion here about Plan B. Plan B is not an ultimatum, but a love letter that is given upon separation. It states that you will have no contact with her until she ends her affair. And once it is delivered, there should be no contact. You are in no position to go into Plan B if you still live together.

Now, when she moves out it would be appropriate to give her a Plan B letter and go DARK. You don't need or request her agreement to go into Plan B. The letter will never be discussed becasue you won't be in contact TO discuss it. So her endorsement is irrelevant.

Hope that makes sense. After she moves out THEN you can go into Plan B and deliver her a letter.

You say you have exposed the affair, can you bring me up to speed about who has been told? Is there a OMW and has she been told? Have you confronted the OM yourself?

Hi Melody,

Yes I have given her a letter perhaps not a PBL proper and a bit premature but I was kind of hoping she would respond to it. I was hoping that once I had made it clear to her in writing what I felt about her, exactly what I was asking for and how little that was she may come round. It was a very heart felt letter explaining how much I loved her, cared for her, regretted some of the things that had been missing between us and how I wanted to work at our M but I also told her some of the things that CV55 suggested that felt right for my situation. I havent even mentioned NC as yet, the only thing that came close was to say that if we did split permanently I would not allow myself to be friends as long as she was involved with OM because the A and their relationship is built on lies and deceit and I would not associate myself with that behaviour.

In terms of exposing it, pretty much the whole family knows on both sides and have for some weeks. I have made sure that everyone is aware of most of the facts. I've not spoken directly to OMW yet but will if I can. It seems she has changed her cell number and since she is no longer in the marital home with OM and staying elsewhere with family it's a little difficult to track her down. I will keep trying.

As for confronting the OM I have seen him on three occasions now in the street when he has been with her but each time he runs off as soon as I come into view! As soon as he sees me he is off in the other direction. Not that I am an aggressive guy normally by any means but I am a bit larger than him and he knows I would not shy away from putting one on him so prob best that he has got outa my way when I have been mad. I have actually gone round to his place when in a calmer mood and tried to just talk (see above) but he/they wouldn't open the door. I get the impression she doesnt want me to talk to him as she has been spinning both of us all sorts of lies and she will be exposed for it.

I think the best thing to do here and now is to wait until she goes then contact her through her sister, deliver a letter as necessary then go dark. She has said to me that when she leaves it would be nice if I would meet her for evenings out or at friends places. For now I have just said "we'll see" so as not to leave her believing that I would when I do go dark.

Curiously, she spoke to me this morn and again discussed the practicalities of giving her job up and starting afresh. I just smiled and remained agreeable. She know what's needed as a rescue plan so there's not really much to add by me. She needs to show me by her actions that she takes our M seriously or things follow the line I have told her.

Ordered copies of "surviving an affair" and "his needs her needs" yesterday.

Update

Had a chat this morn. She is still living at home and having trouble finding an apartment worth moving to. She's promised to be away by this Sunday which may mean moving to her sisters place as a temporary step but at least it gets her away from the house in the interim.

I'm doing my best to be happy and cheerful so as not to leave her with the image of a miserable bugger when she goes.

Worryingly, I am feeling kinda keen to get my space and I think there will be some very mixed emotions when she walks out the door. Relief and sadness at the same time I reckon it will be. Just a bit aprehensive right now.

Still not found out how to contact OMW yet.

Is there any examples of real life Plan B letters anywhere for me to see? I wanna make sure I have put everything properly in place.

Thanks all

bigbob, you're doing a great job. Just remember when she finally goes you need to go really dark. You don't want her stopping by to chat, or whatever she will want to do in order to meet the need for you. Follow Plan B exactly and if your WW has it in her to get her sh!! together she will. If no one responds to your Plan B letter question start another thread with that in the title. Take Care!

The purpose of Plan B is to protect YOURSELF and your remaining love for your WS. A good Plan B needs careful consideration / preparation before implementing.

Some very important things to consider:

Plan B letter: This letter basically states that there is to be no contact whatsoever between you & WS until such a time as conditions YOU state are met (i.e. No Contact with OP, Willingness to work on marriage, marital counseling, etc…). The plan B letter is a “roadmap” to the WS on what YOU need to consider reconciliation

If you’re not sure if you’ve written a good plan B letter, post it. We’ll give you some suggestions / critic. A good rule of thumb with plan B letters: The shorter and more to the point the better.


Intermediary: As you’ve already noticed, any contact with the fogged out WS is caustic and ends up withdrawing units from your LB. The simple solution to this is to not have contact.

That is where the intermediary comes in. The intermediary is the person that your WS has to contact to get a message to you. The job of the intermediary is to pass messages directly from WS to you & from you to WS. The intermediary is NOT to interpret the communications in any way and simply pass the message back and forth.

Do NOT accept direct communications from the WS (phone, email, text messages, direct conversation, etc…) as this breaks plan B and allows WS to get his “family” fix.

If WS phones (make sure you have caller ID) or and unrecognized number comes across, let it go to voicemail. If the VM is from WS delete it. If you pick up the phone and WS is on the other end, Hang UP!

If WS emails: Delete it! A better alternative to this is to block his incoming emails. You can do this various ways depending on the email system you use. Let us know if you need help blocking these. Someone on the board will likely know how to block whatever system you are using.

If WS text messages: Delete it!

Direct Conversation: Turn your back and walk to a supportive group and / or leave.

If you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?” If no, hang up / leave.

Make sure that they know that they are not welcome inside your home until the conditions outlined in your letter are met. If the WS comes in anyway, go to another room and shut the door. Again; if you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?”


Finances: It is best to have this set beforehand. Any deviations need to be arranged through the intermediary.


Family Relations: State your desire that you do not wish to hear any “news” about your WS. Let them know what it going on and what the intent of your plan is. Thank them for their support.


Plan B tends to drive a WS nuts! They can no longer get their “good normal family” fix. They will try very hard to break your plan b and get back to “cake eating”. Do not let this happen! Give the WS a little preview of what it will be like to actually “lose” his family.

It is not too late to get a good plan b going. Post back with any questions.

Another important aspect of plan B is the transference of Power. Once you are comfortably in plan B power over your life shifts back to YOU. You no longer have to worry about what the WS will think of this or that. You are back in control of your own life.

BTW: This shift in power really bothers the WS. They begin to wonder if they really might loose you. :MrEEk:

Bob,

Walking and CV have both given you good advice and support.

Plan B is not for the weak. It takes good planning, strength and support to implement. It means completing a good plan A which helps you identify your personal and marital boundaries. Plan B helps you implement those boundaries.

For my, those boundaries were initially a very long list. When I went back and pondered it deeply, I realized there were a few non-negotiable items. My list then went down to 2 main points:

1. No OP in my life.
2. No WS in my life.

From there my next step was to get my mind and heart in sync. No more being mad at the WS and then feeling sorry for the WS.
This took time. I had to be patient with myself since my heart was stubborn. In time my heart learned you can not and should not allow a WS in one's life.

I had to pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience in order to handle the onslaught of anger from the WS. Ws' do NOT like t/b controlled. In reality, the WS' need t/b controlled.

I had to realize it was OK to need t/b in control. I learned to differentiate between WS babble and valid points from my real H.

I learned it was ok choose how and when I communicated and listed to my real H vs the WS. I then informed him that I did not wish to speak to the WS side of his split personality. I even made him check that character at the sidewalk and not allow his WS mode into my home. When the WS would try to creep in, he w/b asked to leave. All conversation ended with the WS.

What many don't tell you here is that plan B is a safety plan for you and your family. It is a tough love plan and that is why it is vital you inform your personal support group of it's implementation and rules.

As for how plan B will affect the WS. Expect the WS NOT to like it. It means the WS is losing control over the BS and the BS is taking back the control for the family (as it should be).

So expect flack and threats from the Ws. Ignore those. Concentrate on yourself, your family and sighting of your real spouse.

For me, plan B was very helpful. To this day, when I have to deal with an idiot who displays WS tendancies.... I implement plan B.

Hope this helps.

Orchid

Sorry but I believe that your interpretation of the intermediary's role is incorrect. ALL communication from the WS to the BS is heavily redacted to remove non-essential, possibly manipulative communication.

eg. The WS writes that because you are a jerk the kids need counseling and you are ruining their lives and they have an apointment on Friday. If you would stop this childish no talking credo we can solve our problems. Please give me more time, I can't be so cruel to the OP.

Intermediary tells you " Your children have an appointment with a counselor on Friday"

Yes this is true, an intermediary should be both a reliable messenger and a thoughtful editor.

Hi all,

Latest developments...

She was supposed to move out Sunday (Yday) and she had all her stuff packed to go to her moms place but she was working Sunday and didnt get back til quite late so we agreed she could shift everything in the morning (Monday - Today).

Well this morning, I helped her load the stuff into the car and waved goodbye as I left for work myself. My intention was to pop around to her sisters place to deliver a PB letter when I came home from work and whilst she was still at work herself so that she got it after she came home and I wasn't around to scream at either in person or over the phone.

However, about half hour after I arrived at work I got a call on my cellphone. Maybe I shouldnt have answered but I did. She told me that she didnt want to go, knows that she loves me desperately and can't bear to be away from me. She says that she feels that the break may cause more hurt than good. That she wants nothing more to do with OM or the other life that has hurt our M and wants us to work on our relationship and family life.

As I've already given her the list of steps we need to take, I told her that this is what is necessary for us to proceed and we dont have a future until she does. She agreed that everything is sensible on that list and she is willing to do all of it as long as we can stay together and work together on making things right between us.

In basic terms what I previously asked for was:
No contact with OM (and follow plan of NC letter etc)
Leave job (later agreed to compromise of transfer)
Make plans to move house away from area

I told her that once these were in place we can start to work on a recovery plan but until then we have no future.

So she knows that it what is needed for us to move forward.

My dilemma is now whether I accept her response on the terms I asked for or tell her she needs to go away anyway and make a decision once the dust has settled.

The uncertainty for me is whether she really does love me and want to make things right or that this is just a panic knee-jerk reaction to the reality of moving out. Am I just being taken for a ride again?

Do I let her stay home on this promise? Maybe I shouldn't have answered that call but now I have, what to do?

There will be more responses - but a NC letter that she writes and you send after reading to your approval is essential first step.

Otherwise the temptation of jumping on the fence will overwhelm her at some point down the road.

She may have had a fog clearing moment when she realized that you meant business.

It is a big mistake to let WW keep working with the OM.
A transfer will not cause NC to take place.

Your WW has been going back and forth between you and the OM.

They will be able to use company phone, emails, and whatever they can do to still have contact.

Don't weaken now. WW is begging to come back because the OM won't move in with her or help support her in an apartment.

You are in the drivers seat do not back down.

The nature of their jobs does not give them access to company phones, mail or other lines of comms. The only possible way they have contact at work is in person. They have always stayed in touch via cellphone.
but if she does what I have asked am I not breaking my word?

Bob, I'm not an expert on Plan B. The one thing I will say is that people in As will find a way to connect if they want to, via the company or not. You need to determine how serious your W is. This is a gut thing coming from me now, so take it with a grain of salt, OK? Your W has put you through he!! since 2007. Why not let her move to her sisters or parents, at least for a while? Maybe you need to figure out what you want if you choose to give her another chance.

On the other hand, know that recovering from this is not easy. You will have to endure her withdrawal. That sucks! After that you need to actually try to recover both personally and in the M, which IMO requires MC. Is she willing to REALLY do what it will take to recover, or does she think all she has to do is give up the OM? It ain't that simple.

Bottom line, just because she now is afraid of losing you, doesn't mean you have to automatically jump through her hoops. I'd tell her you need to think about it. You have been putting up with her A for at least a year, let her live with your indecision for a while.

Yeh I'd agree that its good to take some time out at this point but if I am taking the moral high ground I feel like I should honour my offer to work with her. However, part of me thinks we need some "cool off" time.
I guess I'll just have to talk again and ask for the space.

Do you have a plan of how to monitor NC? They will see each other at work to some degree. Cell Phone passwords and billings and email passwords and keyloggers are the staples. No extra hours or too much time taken to come home or at the store etc. With your wife going back and forth like she did almost addict like...she is more likely to stumble than the average cheater.

There is no honor in being a fool.

There is on dishonor in breaking a deal when one has found out what one agreed to is harmful.

Well just when I thought I had it all worked out that last post completely lost me LOL

OK here we are. She spoke with me this afternoon and explained what has been going on. Over the past few weeks she has been trying to break it all off with OM but has been carrying a lot of pain and guilt for not only what she has done with our M but also with OM. After all, she convinced him she was gonna run off with him and he has shunned his W & K for her. He is now left with no M, no kids, no home and a W who is not interested in talking to him about reconciling. Not my problem, you might say, but she says she has made it quite clear to him that she wants nothing more from him as a relationship and the recent contact has been just to try and support him as a friend because of the guilt she feels. She has promised me that she now knows this cannot and will not continue because it is preventing us from moving along.

I told her, that it's fair enough but she needs to prove to me that she is serious and committed to us and needs to prove that by taking the steps I asked for. She has agreed to all but leaving the job although she has agreed to a transfer which is gonna take a few weeks to arrange.

On that basis I agreed that if she does do all I asked and commits to sitting down and going through it all with me she should stay at home and we should work on some sort of recovery plan over the next few weeks while the transfer comes about.

I have made it clear however, that any slip up would mean nothing else but a trip to the D lawyers office.

Time will tell whether I have made the right choice but I really felt like we spoke to each other properly today and connected in a way that we haven't done in a very long time. I do believe she is speaking the truth although she has fooled me before.

Keep your fingers crossed for me :o)

Update.

Still working through things and as far as I know, she hasn't made any little trips out to see OM. I do believe that the A has stopped in that respect and I'd be very surprised if she has had any contact with him over the past week.

She is taking her time but has said that she will have compiled a NC letter to OM in the next couple of days and will go through it with me then let me deliver it to him. However, she has also said that there isn't much can be said that she hasn't already told him in as much as she has sent him several SMS msgs telling him to stay away and stop any msgs to her. She tells me she has told him to leave her alone as he is costing her happiness and the happiness and peace of her family.

As far as her transfer goes, she is looking around for another position in the company but there have been so many sackings and redundancies at her firm over the last few weeks that a transfer is looking quite difficult. I am keeping focused on this though and will not let it slip cos I know the consequence.

As for EP's I'm not quite sure what more I can do. She does account for all her time and I do go see her at work occasionally (unannounced). I call her regularly at work and we chat about how her day is goin and exchange loving comments. I get her cellphone bill and can check with the cell company for any calls or msgs made. The last time she made a call or msg to OM was a couple of weeks back now but I knew about that anyway. She could have a second cellphone and keep it hidden at work of course but then that is something I can do nothing about. She has been out shopping alone a couple of times last week but came home with loads of bags so I know that the time was spent spending money!

We are having a lot of fun talking more now, sharing jokes, laughing about our days which was kind of lacking before although we never stopped being friendly toward each other.

We're sharing a lot of practical stuff too. When I was tryng to achieve the goals in plan A, I was doing practically everything around the house. Dinner, washing, cleaning etc but she has voluntarily started to pick up sharing some of these which I have taken as a small sign of commitment.

I gave her a copy of HNHN to read and she has got about a third through it so far. We've discussed some of the things from the book and one of the things I found surprising is that she has said just how accurate the description of the manner of her affair was in terms of how things developed and occurred. She says that she realises that the A was very intense and that she does have very real feelings of love but is working on the withdrawal.

I've noticed that she has also started to be a lot more attentive to me and is leaving me little love messages. She even slipped a very loving little note into my wallet the other morning saying how much she doesn't want to be apart from me and loves me very much. I am taking it all with a pinch of salt at this point because she has let me down so many times I don't want to get kicked in again. I do feel that we are getting somewhere though as long as the withdrawal continues.

We're sleeping together still but nothing more intimate than kisses and cuddles in bed. I am missing sex like its driving me crazy LOL but I guess that will take time and patience from both sides.

I'm feeling presently that we probably need MC of some sort but not quite sure how to go about that. I'm in the UK so getting to a MB weekend would be hard. Anyone got recommendation for MC in the UK? We tried Relate some time back but they weren't a lot of help.

Also, I am still very untrusting, as anyone would be I guess. Maybe all the above is an elaborate smokescreen to hide the A but I don't believe so at this point. I'm optimistic that it's all a good sign. I just need to keep focused on the goals and for the time being, make sure we continue to communicate and go forward.

Hi all, just another small update.

I'm still here and still trying to cope with things. Just waiting for the dust to settle a bit.

We are still together and I think making some progress. She has writen to OM and told him all the things she needed to. She is still working in the same place but talking with HR to get a transfer.

I think this is the withdrawal stage that is spoken about cos whilst I am glad that things aren't so crazy anymore, sometimes we both feel really upset although we aren't taking it out on each other. She cries a lot and tells me it's because she knows she hurt me/us but I believe some of the tears are for him too.

She is also being very affectionate and loving toward me and seems to be very attentive to making me feel loved which I am reciprocating and really quite enjoying. Time will tell whether this is long term and real.

I think it is going in the right direction but does anyone have any advice on getting through this bit?

Is it too early to take this to the "Recovery" threads?

No reason to go to any threads.

Your getting the most exposure here.

Bob, personally I was very slow moving over to the Recovery forum. I wanted to make sure that no contact was firmly in place first. Also, I really don't think real recovery begins until the withdrawal stage is winding down. That is definitely JMHO. I wanted to know that my H was seeing OW with clear vision, and not having her on some kind of fantasy pedestal. I found the withdrawal stage really rough and had us do phone counseling with Steve Harley because I really wanted to dump H at this point while he was missing OW.

How to get through this? OK, I've told this story here before, but it's an example of what I had to do. I remember rubbing poor H's back, Plan Aing my brains out, acting all lovey dovey, while thinking, "You are such a friggin a**hole! I can't believe you cheated on me." It's the truth! I told H this story later on in recovery. You've got to be tough! Do whatever it takes to get you through it. I said the Serenity Prayer numerous times every day. And I came here and vented like crazy. Notice the number of my posts.

Bob, how good was your exposure? There's a gal over on the OW board who is lamenting because her OM left her home because of family pressure. His parents refused to accept Ow, excluded him from family get togethers, his BS wouldn't allow him to see the kids with OW, and of course this tramp did receive " Ho Hugs" for her distress and assured her that that he was returning to a loveless marriage. His Bros & Sis's shut him out also. His BW acheived the perfect plan A. Was yours? GF

Hi CV55, yes I can fully appreciate what you mean about the withdrawal. Having coped with it for only a week or so it is very hard. Both of us have mentioned walking out the door already although neither of us did. Our days seem to go from one extreme to the other. One moment we are behaving like teenagers in love and the other one of us will be moping around feeling sorry for ourselves (or maybe her for him!). Thankfully there is more of the former. I'm depositing the old love units like crazy over here and geting a fair few back but like I say, it's hard work. I know this will take time and keeping cool will be difficult but its got to be the way. I know we are all different but how long did your withdrawal go on for CV55? weeks, months? If months I may need to keep away from sharp objects and rope LOL

I still have my doubts and suspicions but I guess that's only to be expected. I am torn between wanting to believe we are on the right track to being resentful or untrusting about whether she might be still be full of bs. I want to extend some degree of trust to her but wonder if I'm being taken for a ride again. I suspect this is fairly normal thinking here?

She made some interesting comments this morning before going to work. During a few hugs before leaving she said: "I am really very lucky to have you. So many guys would have just thrown me out of the door for what I did. It's only because of your strength that we are still together. You're a good man and I know that if I had left you I would have regretted it for the rest of my life. You didn't deserve any of this."
hmmm, is that some sort of apology? or is this an elaborate smoke screen? Gees I wish I knew but her behaviour toward me sure seems to have changed for the better which I am taking as a good sign. I hope and pray that my instincts are correct.

EP's I hear you all cry! Well, EP's are the answer in most cases but the way she used to contact OM was with a payg top-up cellphone which she hid in a locker at work. She says she doesnt mind me having access to her post, email, phone calls etc but even if I did she could still contact OM if she felt to. No way I can cover the use of another phone and the problem is that I know there is another phone which she could be using. I haven't challenged her on this yet as I was trying to build up some units. At this stage do you think I should just get it out in the open? or just hold the thought and see if she slips up somewhere?

<<His BW acheived the perfect plan A. Was yours?>>
Hi GF, I think my plan A was far from perfect. I'm sorry but I ain't that cool and I lost my composure a couple of times. On balance I think that it was successful though as I still looked at her with real love. Luckily it's only the mental images that haunt me, not being with her or looking at her. The behaviour toward her from me wasn't contrived it was very real and natural. I just hadn't done it for a while and I think thats one of the reasons why the A happened in the first place.

<<how good was your exposure?>>
Pretty good, almost everyone we know is aware of what happened.

Keep your fingers crossed for me you guys & gals, I'm hoping she is sticking with us and keeping the faith.

If it were me I would just say, after you check her one phone in front of her,can I check the other phone? But you will have to give up the source of how you know about the other. If this is going to work get everything out on the table.

Hi ILF, thx for your reply. The problem is that I DON'T know for certain that she uses a second cellphone. She does have one and used that to contact OM but the number has been disconnected. It is quite possible that she has bought another SIM card for it or even bought another phone and keeps it at work. There is no way I could know that or ever have any way of checking it out.

We spoke again last night when she came home and she was honest enough to tell me that she still misses OM but doesn't really think of him in the same way as she did. Just like an old friend now but realises that to contact him would be silly and would threaten our recovery. She says, I believe quite sincerely, that she loves me far more deeply than she ever felt for him and wants to make us work but doesn't know the right way forward.

I told her that as long as she has stopped the A what we should do is put the whole issue in a imaginary box just for now and deal with it later on when we are both ready. For now I think the biggest issues are dealing with our feelings and wishes and for me, being sure that the A is really over.

Aside from the A she says she sometimes has an overwhelming desire to run away. That she feels she needs to just run out the door and find some space to be on her own from time to time. Then when she does think about being away from home or goes out somewhere, has a craving to be back with me and our home. She says its a feeling of being caged or trapped but she doesn't understand this craziness and is struggling to understand what is going on in her head.
Are there any WS's or BS's out there had similar feelings?
Is she just as mad as a hatter?
It is confusing the heck out of me so I can only imagine what it could be doing to her.

I do believe in the MB methods quite vigorously. Anyone know if we can we get counselling from the Harleys via email or MSN chat or webcam even???