Although I have another thread started last year in General Questions, I wanted to start this one here as I have never found any proof that my husband cheated/cheating on me and need help figuring out where to go from here.

Brief background - now married 8 years, with the first 7 being pretty bad. We married shortly after having a long distance relationship and spent many years fighting all the time. No children. A year ago before deploying to Afghanistan my husband informs me that he no longer loves me the same way and is moving out when he gets home from deployment. States he doesn't want to spend another 7 years as unhappy as we have been. I ask him to reconsider, which he says he will think about it. A few months later when we discuss it right before he leaves he still says he doesn't know what he want to do, but says he will commit to working on our marriage when I asked point blank.

Didn't know if I could believe him. I had been snooping about this time to see if there was someone else and thus his wanting to get out of the marriage. I found that he had online female friends that I knew nothing about and also a former co-worker that he kept in touch with. When confronted about the online friends of course just said they were friends and the cards I found from them did only seem that way. As far as the girl he use to work with, he at first lied about the phone number on the cell bill, but then just stated that she was a friend and knew I would flip out if I knew he was talking to her.

These things bothered me, but he was leaving for Afghanistan for 9 months and I attempted to let it go as I wouldn't have anyway to monitor his communications while over there and just see how things went between us. Basically did Plan A. Well, after a month or so over there he started saying "I love you" again and I miss you. We got along better and didn't fight at all. While home on leave last fall he was so loving and things seemed like they were when we dated. He has now been home for 2 months and things still seem great between us. In fact it is better than it has ever been in our marriage. We spent the first 8 months of our marriage seperated and by the time we lived together already had problems and resentment built up and never got to experience a "honeymoon phase". He is very loving and caring with me and all his actions towards me back this. We haven't talked about it really, as to why the decision to change and all as I thought it would be better to just let it go as I can see that he has re-committed to the marriage.

So, my problem is that everything feels right between us, but after reading so much on this board I wonder if I should still try and snoop and make sure he isn't having inapproiate female friends. But when I look at his stuff it doesn't really clear it up for me like I would like and I get upset over what I do see. I got upset the other day because he left one of his emails open and I found a new message from singlesnet.com for up grading membership. Nothing on it to really say he already had a membership and could have been spam?

Another example is I checked his myspace page (he doesn't know that I know he even has one) it would appear that he deleted his original (I looked at that a year ago and found that on it was all about him and like I didn't exist, no pictures of me or us) and started a new one. Only one picture of him so far on this account and this one at this point doesn't have many friends and only a few females, but one is a ex-girlfriend that we have had some fights about and I wouldn't think he would need to keep in touch with her. Also he has on it that he is single, which it was like that before too. Nothing about this actions would make me think he is trying to pass himself off as single, but seeing that their bothers me anyway. I do have trouble with OCD although right now with meds I am doing really good. But I don't want to become obessed with looking at this online stuff.

So could it be better for me to just let this go and not keep looking? It really upset me to see this stuff and it doesn't do anything but make me have more questions. I hope to be able to talk to him about some of this in the future, but want to wait to do it in consueling which we start in a few weeks and don't know how long till I feel comfortable that we can discuss it and actually make headway. In the past he just gets pissed at me and justifies hiding it from me because I would flip out about it, which was correct, but still not a good reason to keep it from me as it makes me think something inapproiate is going on (the hiding/lieing about it).

Thanks for reading this, as I have trouble keeping things short and any advice would be appreciated.

lit1022 .... Hello

There are many many indicating your H is being dishonest, and you very right to be concerned.

Your Thread should be on General Questions II, this is more than emotional needs.

Click the 'Notify' button right corner of this post and ask to have it moved.

There you will get the help you need.

Take care

Well, if he knew you would "Flip Out" then he knew he was doing something that would make you unhappy. This is a problem!

My H also had a "Just Friends" co-worker that turned out to be someone that he was having an A with.

As far as I'm concerned, most if not all here and a lot of specialist too, there's no such thing as "Just Friends" between members of the opposite sex when the spouse knows nothing about that "Friend"

I say.....SNOOP. Get a key logger for you computer so that you can really see what is going on, where he is going on the net, who he's talking to and what is being said. But DO NOT tell him about it. Keep it to yourself.

You'll get the informtion that you need to see what your H is up to or you'll see that he's telling the truth.

Also, act like you just discovered the whole myspace/facebook phenomenon and "friend" him and put him as your spouse on Facebook.

Trust, but verify.

I feel I should clarify some on what I wrote earlier. Much of the stuff that did upset me and make me wonder about his actions happened over a year ago now. At that point he wasn't acting like he wanted to work on the marriage and was very distant from me.

Over the last year this has changed and he is now very loving and committed to us and starting a family. It is just hard for me to let the stuff in the past go and thus continue to snoop some on him. The only recent thing is about his new myspace page. The good news on this new account is that he has very few contacts unlike the last one with a bunch of females I didn't know. I am not happy about his ex being a contact and that he has the status as single, but if I snoop futher and see that they corespond appropiately as friends what would I do about it? The fact that it is hiden from me bothers me, but if he doesn't see a problem with this and it isn't a threat to the marriage what course of action should I take?

Just answer one question:
Why would a married man - apart from being a spy or something - EVER list himself as single?

Why?

I don't know.

Back when he first talked about moving out I wondered about him cheating and thus a motivation for it. Found no evidence that he was, just the hiding of female friends from me. This account was set up like that then too and I worried about it, but figure if he was placing himself out there as single and moving on we would seperate when he got home.

The opposite happened and he fell back in love with me and re-committed to the marriage. This new account is open for anyone to view and if he has decide to have some secret side-life while still being married to me and starting a family would he have that info on there for all to see?

Sure, if he's looking for nibbles.

Bottom line, a healthy marriage does not allow for Independent Behaviors. Either he stops them or you snoop.

If the marriage is doing so well, why can you not just ask him about it?

When there has been abuse or infidelity, trust is broken. Still...hope often runs as an undercurrent, even in dysfunctional relationships - so much so for many people that they second guess their own gut instincts or choose to ignore their intuition.

Be smart about this. Be savvy. Be independent. Choose to keep your eyes open. Choose to stay on birth control.

lit1022,

1) EN's not being met with lots of LB's .... M vulnerable to an A

2) Words often used by WS's, MB's calls this 'fog' talk

3) Your H should have no female friends that you do not know about

4) Common answer again WS's, but if they were just friends, why were they secret?

5) same as #4

6) They should bother you. This is your gut talking to you.

7) This is great that you started Plan A, he must have been home now right ?

8) Yes you need to keep snooping because he DOES have inappropriate female friends

9) It will never be cleared up for you unless you know what exactly is going on, this is your M, you have the right to know everything. You can't fix what is not on the table.

10) Maybe it was spam .... probably, most likely NOT.

11) He shouldn't have a My Space that you don't know about. There are too many secrets here all ready, I suspect if you snoop more that you will find more.

12) Started a more recent My Space that you still don't know about ......

13) He has himself labelled as single, like catperson said 'WHY' This is an action, a conscience action to write the word 'single' .... he is married !

14) WS's hide everything about their deceit, lie and justify everything to protect themselves.

This is my take on your situation. It's long but I bet that won't bother you

This whole thing of having a better relationship is still new for us. We have talked through and worked out many issues in the last 6 months that use to be topics that only blew up into fights. Maybe his reaction to me asking about it would be different than what I expect from past experiences. I just don't want to take steps backwards in the progress we have made. I realize that probably doesn't really clear up what I am trying to say here. But, basically I have done a lot of work in the past year to be much less mean to him and fight about everything. I do have issue with needing to feel in control of everything and don't know how to approach him in any manner other than "attack mode". Even when I attempt to do it differently it always come across that way to him.

What about a marriage counselor to help you achieve this honesty?

I guess my only thought is...

Don't snoop unless you are prepared to deal with what you might find. If you have a plan if you find nothing... ensure you have a 'stopping' place that you can reach and feel secure nothing is going on. If you FIND something, make sure you have an idea about what you would do with that information. Do it BEFORE you are emotionally strung out in either way. Make plans while you are somewhat... heh... sane.

Kind of like drawing a gun on someone. Don't do it, unless you are prepared to use it.

We saw someone about 3-4 years ago. Never really helped us work anything out, but quit going after awhile when things were just going a bit better between us.

Already have an appointment scheduled the middle of the month and two more next month. We discussed it and agreed to try the same person again, although it didn't help before, as we are in a much different place now and going to try him again and if still no progress then try someone else.

From her original post, there are no 'nothings', they are all 'somethings'

I completely agree that lit needs a plan, I like the gun scenario BTW.

I suggest again that you have your thread moved to GQII.

As far as marriage counselling ... unless they are prepared to discuss your H's independent behaviours, you won't be any further ahead than what you were before.

I did request earlier today to have it moved, maybe I didn't do it correctly?

I do think we will be able to address this issue in consueling, but not sure when as I don't want to just jump him with it right away and him think that is the only reason for going (me wanting him to change his behaviors, am willing now for us both to work on our marriage unlike when we went years ago and was not open to much about changing myself).

I guess I do hesitate to snoop more as I don't know what I will do with what I find. If it is clear cut cheating (which I know no one else will agree with me on this, but really don't think this is the case) then the result is simple, I am done with the marriage.

What do I do with evidence of him corresponding with other females? He thinks that it is okay and me just stating otherwise won't get us anywhere. I have a problem with obessing about something and if I were to have access to such emails it could trigger this. In that state I won't be able to deal with him and the issue, if that makes sense to anyone who isn't OCD.

lit

I have no idea how long it takes to have a thread moved. You wrote a message and then submitted it right??

I actually understand what you mean in your last paragraph, I must be OCD too.

I have to go,and get off the computer now. But I will try to check in tomorrow and make sure it got moved. Why don't you try again. I really feel you will get a good plan over there with more eyes reading your situation.

Take care.

Popped back to say keep reading ! Your marriage doesn't have to end when someone cheats. That is something I would never have said last year. It really can be fixed.

Someone will chime in to give you help.

Take care.

What do you do with evidence? You respect yourself!

How hard is it to tell your H that him dealing with other females negates your marriage?

How hard is it to say 'you hurt my feelings and make me doubt you have any love for me when you continue to do the ONE thing I have told you hurts me'?

Why can you not say that?

The biggest compliment that your husband can give you is to tell everyone about you. Including his friends on myspace. Single? You've been married for 8 years? What an insult.

I'd check him out. Keep track of his myspace. Be prepared for the worst, and pray that you find nothing.

lit,

1) Read about the EN's, you can print off the questionaire from this website, have you and your H fill it out. His may not be what you think they are, and they are definitely not what yours are.

2) Read about all the LB's and avoid them. If your H uses any, identify which one he is doing, calmly tell him what he is doing, that it hurts you, then walk into another room.

3) Continue the best Plan A ever.

4) Keep snooping like everyone has said. Keep records of what you have found. Look at old phone records, credit card bills, search your home top to bottom.

5) Can you do counseling with Dr. Harley by phone? Read about it on this site. I know it sounds expensive, you may only need a few with Dr. Harley. Using your MC, may take many more sessions, ending with it being more costly.

6) Do you have any children ? Is your H home at the moment or is he gone for another extended period of time ?

I hope this can get you started. Someone else can maybe chime in to give you a more detailed plan. Dr. Harley would definitely have one for you.

Take care

Thanks for the replies.

I don't have much time to write since I am at work, but wanted to answer some of your questions.

We do not have any children. This has been one of the big issues in our marriage as I have gone from first wanting them, to not, and now again wanting to. My husband has along wanted kids and it was a real issue for him all the years I was saying it wasn't going to happen. I have on my own decide I do want to start a family (most of my reason to not where due to insecurities and not managed OCD) and we have discussed it a lot this past year and right now agreed to wait until the middle of this year to start trying mostly due to financial reasons and his school schedule.

My husband is now home and has no more deployments schedule for the rest of this enlistment which ends in August. He is talking about re-enlisting in a new unit and can't know for sure then what the future might hold as far as that goes, but for at least this year he will be home.

I have been snooping ever since last year when he told me he might move out. Is how I found out about female friends online and a former co-worker on the cell bill. Right now the cell numbers are all accounted for and the only thing I go do to further snoop is the keylogger. I am just not sure if I want to go that route yet as he has shown great strides in our marriage and how he treats me. I know that there are still issues I am not comfortable with, but not sure monitoring this every move with really help us with them.


I was thinking about the entire myspace situation early today and about cat's comment about just being able to ask him about it. I was hesitant on that because I worried it might tick him off and put us back in a full fighting mode like we use to be and thus set us back. But just keeping it in and getting no answers or response from him will drive me nuts. I am thinking a good solution would be to email him about it, am hoping I can come across less attacking them my conversation style and maybe he will be less defensive (this has always been our style in the past, me question which he see as attacking and saying he is an idiot for whatever it is he did I don't like and he just gets defensive and yells and we get no where) and maybe more open to why it bothers me and I am asking about it. I don't think I will have time today while at work to construct this letter, but when I do get it done, will post it here if others want to give input on it.

I know that if he is really hiding stuff and having some negative agenda with the "single" status on myspace he might not be honest with me about it, but I think the overall response and attitude I would get back from him will tell me a lot and I can figure out from that if this is a real threat to my marriage.

lit,

Every one of the issues you speak about are concerning and a threat to a marriage.
They prevent you from being in love to the fullest with your H, and your H with you.

The 2 books sold on this site which I know would be of great help to you both, Surviving an Affair, and His Needs/Her Needs. They both talk about how to get through the concerns you have.

There is an MB seminar coming up in March. This would be something that both of you would benefit from. The seminar is an excellent way for both of you to absorb the info. It's also a great way to spend time together. It's worth every penny and cheaper than divorce. ( I get no kickback from supporting this seminar, just so ya know )

Keep your eyes open, just because your H seems loving now doesn't mean that he has stopped his dishonest behavior. If he has stopped, he may start again at anytime.

You can talk to him about your concerns, use the info that you have been given here. Reread your thread occasionally, that might help to remind you how. He needs to know how everything he does affects you and in what way.

Keep posting.

Take care.

Thanks for the continued support and replies. I decide to write my husband about the myspace stuff and see how he responds. I am listed the draft of the email below and would like any feed back. My attempt is to not attack him over the issue and just be outright with it. In the past I have confronted him about this hiding type stuff before and would ask questions hoping to get him to tell me about it (he felt I was trying to trap him since I already knew the answers, when I was really hoping he would just then tell me on his own with the proding, if that makes sense). So this time a different approach. What do you think?? Anyone..





Dear Husband,
Not really sure how to begin this letter, but I have something that I need to discuss with you and am hoping we can do so without it becoming a big fight. I thought that maybe if we talk about it through email versue face to face discussion it might be easier to keep our normal discussion style (me all attacking and you all defensive and then the yelling and blow up that gets us nowhere) lessened.

As usual I was bored at work last week and messing around on the the internet. I came across your myspace page. I see that you list your status as single and have female contacts who are unknown to me, along with your ex girlfriend. Everything listed in that last sentence I am not comfortable with. I understand that we are two different people and have different ideas about things and what is okay within a marriage and I am not actually asking you to agree with me. What I am asking of you, is how do you think we should deal with these differences and proceed in our marriage so that we are both okay with this issue?

I know that you are very busy with school and work right now and really appreciate your taking the time to listen to my concerns and respond. I love you very much. Wife

Well said...a healthy marriage is totally transparent - no secrets. You should not only be able to talk with him, but he definitely should not have a Myspace you don't know about, or contact with women - ESPECIALLY his ex.

Anyone have any thoughts, insights to my draft letter for my husband. I really want to open up this discussion with him as best as humanly possible and see if we can work on resolving it and not fighting about it.

I think I would skip it all and say something like:

When I found your myspace page the other day, I saw that you listed yourself as single.

It has me confused, because I like to brag to everyone I meet that I'm married to you, so I'm trying to figure out how YOU feel. Does this mean you would rather be single? Does it mean you still love me but think you need to be spending time with other women, too?

I'm confused because there are several women on your page who I don't know. And not to mention your ex! I am pretty sure that if I had added some strange men to my site, you'd be up in arms about it (at least I would hope you would, lol).

So I'm really trying to understand what I'm supposed to be thinking about this. I can't figure it out until I understand what YOU are thinking.

Will you tell me, please?

catperson - Thanks for the suggestion. I am actually more confused now with how to proceed as your letter is so much more what I want to say to him. I was just trying to be less like my usual self as that never got us anywhere and felt I needed to show my husband that, if I had any chance at all of him being willing to discuss it with me with his defenses down.

I just wish I knew how to approach him as he is the type that misunderstands just about anything and makes it really personal and then can't actually rationally think about an issue because he is too busy trying to justify his actions and prove that he isn't a horrible person. He know that he is very overly sensitive and I have been calling him out on it more, but he still seems to have no control over it starting by generally a little innocent comment that wasn't even directed at him. So with this topic that I can't ask him about without acknowledging that I have a problem with it and he is the root of the problem I know I have to be careful if I hope to not have him just blow me off or blow up about it.

If you feel like the discussion might get out of hand, and if you feel more comfortable sending him an email, then why not use what cat has suggested.

Her words don't sound threatening to me and they are to the point.

Below is the email I sent to my husband and his reply.


Dear Husband,
I have something that I need to discuss with you and I thought that maybe if we talk about it through email versus face to face discussion it might be easier to keep our normal discussion style (me all judgmental and attacking and you all defensive and then the yelling and blow up that gets us nowhere) lessened.
As usual I was bored at work last week and messing around on the the internet. I came across your myspace page. I see that you list your status as single and have female contacts whom are unknown to me, along with your ex girlfriend. Everything listed in that last sentence I am not comfortable with. I understand that we are two different people and have different ideas about things and what is okay/boundaries' within a marriage. I really need to understand what you are thinking and the reasons behind all this. Also, how do you think we should deal with these differences in expectations of a spouse so that we can both be okay with this issue?
I know that you are very busy with school and work right now and really appreciate your taking the time to listen to my concerns and respond. I love you very much. Wife

Wife-Not that I have the time to deal with this right now as I should bne in bed but whatever. I set that up because the kids that are in myu Honors class chose that way to keep in touch if we needed to. I havent even been on it to set it up yet so I am not sure who has added me or what my status is.I will adjust all of that when I get a minute. Husband

Hard to really tell if his attitude is pissy because of being asked about it or just because he is late to bed (already knew that he had to stay late at school due to the above mentioned honor program and is only going to get 4-5 hours of sleep this afternoon before work, he is going to school full time in the mornings and working nights full time). I sent the email a couple of days ago and wish this wasn't the day he finally checked it, but can't do anything about that now.

So I checked the account since receiving this and he has changed it to private, which worries me. But I was hoping to get some help on how myspace works and see if he is telling the truth about the contacts.

So my question is.....If you have a myspace account and someone finds you and requests friend contact will that person show up on your page right away before you are back on it and accept the contact? That is basically how he is saying the ex got on there. I went to her page and he isn't listed there, I am pretty sure he was on it the other day as a contact so does that mean he took her off this page?

I am going to post this also under a new thread to see if I can get more help on the myspace questions, but wanted to put it here too so that it continues with my thread, I hope that is okay.

That all depends on how he sets it up. The default set-up is anybody can join your page without your acceptance, but you can set it up very strict so not only do you have to accept the people, but they have to know either your last name or email in order to request to be a friend in the first place. I don't have my real name set up on mine, so only the people I want on there are the ones that can get on. FWH's is set up the same. We don't have our first names on there either.

Unless you have his username and password, it's pretty much impossible to see what his settings are.

Did you notice when checking before when his last login was? It is posted somewhere on the page usually, so if he'd logged on recently then he would know who his friends were. The home page would tell him that he had new friends, comments, messages, etc. That is something else too - you can send private messages through myspace. If I were you, I would demand his username and password. That's all part of being Open & Honest.

I think that if he isn't showing up on ex-gf's page, then she must be off his too, but I can't be positive of that. There might be a way around that.

btw...not too crazy about his attitude. It doesn't matter why he was upset. He should be helping you get through this and a partnership shouldn't have that attitude. You need to work together.

Thanks for the reply.

Based on his reponse I would think he is claiming he hadn't done any special setup and thus would be the default. He claimed he hadn't been on the page since initial setup and didn't know what the status was (is that possible?, wouldn't you put in your status in the initial setup???)

I checked the last week of January and couldn't find him on myspace under any name or nickname he has. His old account that he had last year (I hadn't checked that since Feb 08 was set up under a nickname and also his regular name brought it up). I first saw this new account on Feb 3rd and it stated his last login was the 3rd which only changed today after he emailed me.

Also would the default set up make it public as his old account was set to private and did think it was odd that this new one would be public.

Wow. He is pulling your chains. Hire a PI. If you can't afford one, ask your friends and brothers/cousins/etc. to help you have him followed. You need to get proof of what he is doing, because I guarantee it ain't good. At least not for you.

Um...question. What age students is he teaching?

Here's what I see in his response:
Wife-Not that I have the time to deal with this right now
His passive-aggressive (if not abusive) way to slap your wrist for 'bothering' him
as I should bne in bed
More PA that you are selfish and keeping him from taking care of himself
but whatever.
OMG! The abuser/controller/passive aggressive person's number 1 mantra - whatever! used to keep the last word, show disdain for you, make you feel guilty and shut up
I set that up because the kids that are in myu Honors class chose that way to keep in touch if we needed to.
He has already shifted the blame for the site to others - children, yet! - which (1) says you can't pick on him for it and (2) explains why he can't get rid of it. (how could you do that to these kids? waawaa
I havent even been on it
lie
to set it up yet
lie
so I am not sure who has added me
lie - doesn't he have to 'accept' them or they wouldn't be on there?
or what my status is.
lie. IIRC, he has to set up his OWN status and no one can do it for him.
I will adjust all of that when I get a minute. Husband

Husband is a student not a teacher. We are in our 30's, but the other students are college age.

Heard from another poster that some of what he claims could be true as far as contacts listed that aren't asked or accepted - told this is the default method.

Will wait to hear what other say about myspace and how it works.

lit,

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MY SPACE WORKS. The fact that it was a secret, twice, is evidence enough that he is being dishonest.

Take the advice of having him followed. Get a keylogger on your computer. This will allow you to see what he has been up to.

There is a thread on spying 101, but I don't know how to link anything. It is in GQII.
We can help you with any of that, let us know.

His reply back was rude and thoughtless. If he treats you like this much of the time, I can understand why you are so scared to believe that he is being dishonest.