Hi all,

I am wondering about this topic for a while now and wanted to hear your experiences. At which point in the affair did you hear from your WH/WW ILYBNILWY / I am not happy?

I have my own theorie and just want to see am I completely off here - I think it might be happening shortly after an affair goes from EA to PA.

Just brainstorming here...

My ILUBNILWY speech came about a month after WH went away with OW camping for the weekend. He set me up so good. I helped him pack up stuff for them, but didn't know it.

However, after we moved back in, I found a letter she had written to him about her undying love for him, and how she realized that getting a D from me would be so hard and the fact that she wasn't Jewish would mean to him, and how difficult a decision this was... BLAH BLAH BLAH..... it was 5 days later that I got this famous speech.

I remember that night so well. I was at a lax meeting because D-day happened on a night that I went to a lax meeting. He gave me the speech right before I left, I came home and pushed him for a D. We went online and looked at how much it would cost, etc. And when pushed he backed down and didn't want one. I wish I had found MB during that time, so much would have been different.

Oh well...

I never got the speech at all. He always said he did love me and he was happy so you figure it out.

Not sure if this helps, but I got a version of this speech two weeks ago during a false recovery. H attempted contact with OW via email on 11/1 and gave me this speech 11/3. It was THE single most significant clue to me that he had attempted contact with OW. A few other clues were his comments that he had only returned home in 2008 because "it was expected" and that he had never been 100% commited to recovery. It reeked of wayward talk.

AM

How wise we become...

How good our nose can smell a wayward.

Boy I hope not, 'cause I got the ILYBINILWY speech shortly after he came home from HS reunion where he ran into his old gf and started the EA portion. I've always been convinced they got physical--more so than he let on to me--not sure it went all the way to doing the deed or not--. But the speech came when he came home. Might lend some creedence to your theory.

I got mine shortly after Dday...a Dday that happened because I accidentally found out about his affair.

In my case, POSOM moved into our tenent house at the end of June, 2008. For the whole month of July, exWW started spending more and more time with POSOM and less time with me.

On July 24th, we had a horse show at the Del State Fair. exWW was NASTY to the kids and I. Everytime she got mad at us, she would go hang with POSOM. After the kids were done showing, she and POSOM took the horses home while I rode the rides with the kids. I am CONVINVED that this is when things went physical. The orignal plan was for POSOM to take the horses home while the 4 of us hung out at the fair.

The next day (July 25th), I had my vasectomy. I called exWW to pick me up from the Dr. as scheduled. She said she forgot.

July 26th - We have a family picnic with her side. POSOM is back at the house. ExWW, me, the kids, and exWW's family have a GREAT time. When we get home, exWW is in a NASTY mood since POSOM is around. That night, exWW comes to bed quite frisky, but PSUBIKER is still healing from the day before. So, we do other methods of SF on her but she is not responding and is getting frustrated. Her sister and cousin in hindsite noticed exWW was very "uncomfortable" the entire day.

July 27th - She is hot and cold all day. We go to Target and she tries on some nice lingerie for me, we then go to the KY intimates section and she purchases some. We get home, she is NASTY to me again. Very distant, not wanting to talk. I know something is up. I write her a very nice letter detailing how much I love her etc, etc, etc. She doesn't come into the house until 3am. I know she was with POSOM.

July 28th - I get the ILUBNILWU speech.

I am convinced everything went physical on July 24th after POSOM and exWW went home together. Then, exWW spent the weekend waffling between me and POSOM until she gave into POSOM and issued the ILUBNILWU speech.

Well my ILYBNILWY speech came on my 12th wedding anniversary. I have been convinced H has been involved in an EA for aprox 2 years now with a co-worker whom he sits beside everyday. H is planning on moving out in Feb 2010 so as not to disrupt xmas and youngest son's bday. Last night I discovered that his wedding ring has been removed. H states that he is not doing this for another woman but just needs some time on his own. I think he really wants me to kick him out so he won't be the bad guy.

After he figured out that nothing was going to make me accept his girlfriends.
Mulan

I got the "speech" one week before D-Day.

I don't think she would have disclosed so quickly, if I hadn't pushed for disclosure. As far as my FWW was concerned, he was "just a good friend" and their boinking around in my home, my bed and at the office had nothing to do with her feelings for me.

Mine tried to have me killed.

Ther was no "speech".

I got "I haven't been happy in a long time...." the day he came home from Dallas. The A had gone physical that weekend.....Dday was a week or two later.....(yeah for me......details are getting fuzzier)

Hmmmm.....me thinks you may be on to something.....

Thanks everyone so far for your replies - I am very interested in your answers - I also have another theorie - if there was no EA beforehand and it went physically straight away the speech pretty much comes straight away.

I guess I am trying to find my own truth somehow for my own situation

Ah, this is such and interesting topic to me because for SO LONG I just wanted to find or understand the truth.

The TRUTH was something I was totally unprepared for and understand now why it took so long. G-d prepared me for the truth because I wouldn't have been able to handle it.

If you can, seek G-d, pray for the answers you are searching for and KNOW that TRUST that G-d will reveal them as he sees fit. Like you say, WH is still in FOG..... and the truth is still somewhere out there.

Like my counsellor is telling me - I am a person very much in need of logic

And because it seems that most waywards seem to also follow the Wayward Script in what they are saying I presumed also their timing would follow a certain script so to speak, meaning the timing of the speech would also be very similar.

I honestly don't know. I just experienced each of the events, or wayward script, not in the time frames..

However... I will say that I thought my WH had been having an A for only 3 years, turns out it was almost 5 years. I can tell you that something changed in that time April-June 06, but I don't know what happened.

This is interesting...

The day before my speech(saturday) I got a text from WH who was at work at the time which said the following: "Will
be finished at noon and will probably go to the city for a bit of dinner and to go sightseeing if I don't feel so tired"

I must have texted something back but can't remember and then he came back with:

"Well the weather is great so seems like a waste not to do something.And I am here over a year and don't know about anything where I live."

I rang him in the evening and he cut me short. He called back later that evening and said he was in the train which was the reason he cut me short but his mood was explosive. I knew then something was going to happen and I got my speech the next day(Sunday).

I also often wonder what the reason for the speech is - beside drawing attention to the affair which I think is completely counter productive I think it's because the WH/WW feels guilty.

Interesting topic. For me, the comment was tossed out on several occasions but I do recall a speech on 7/3/09. (She did her homework on 'marital indifference' and stuck with that for awhile.) Anyhow, this main speech was after I was asked to move out (4/21/09), after the ring disappeared from her finger (5/3/09), and after D-Day (5/25/09).

EA? PA? Still can't say for sure, but I, like many others, have learned enough around here to know that in all likelihood, it is/was the latter.

The pure rage directed at me after WW found out that I called OM (8/12/09) also coaxes me to side with the PA camp.

I got the ILYBNILWY speech 5 days BEFORE d-day. But I'm sure I fit into your theory (whatever it is), because of events I found out afterward.

Two weeks before ILYBNILWY, OWH discovered hickeys on OW's neck. She had previously had an affair and he expected OM#1 who was their DD's daycare lady's BF (follow that?). He exposed to the daycare lady who had it out with the BF, who denied it, and who ended up telling the truth. OW (my WXH's OW) fessed up that it was someone at work, but didn't disclose my WXH's name. OWH had had enough and gave OW one month to get out of the house. These are the facts.

The presumption: OW gave WXH the ultimatum - ditch me and move in with her or they are done. (or something like that) During the 2 weeks leading up to ILYBNILWY, WXH was very withdrawn. I knew there was a lot of reorganization going on at his work and presumed he was worried about his job. Ya - I'm a dumba$$. He also started carrying his cell with him and receiving calls that he didn't answer. Again - dumba$$ (me). Looking back, I believe he was agonizing over the decision and trying to figure out what to say to me. Perhaps he ordered the Wayward Manual at this time and it took 2 weeks to arrive through Canada Post. In any event, he came up with ILYBNILWY (along with a bunch of logistical "solutions" to get me out of the house and her in).

As to when the A went physical it's hard to say for sure. ILYBNILWY was April 07. D-day was May 07. Both WXH and OW admit to having been together since Feb 07. In Feb 07, WXH visited his mom (alone) and told her he was unhappy with his M and thinking of leaving (I had no clue at the time and we even had a fabulous valentine's dinner that year). OWH and I were able to compile evidence that they'd been together since at least August 06. It was January 06 when she'd been caught with OM#1. My guess is that it went physical shortly before or around the time he visited his mom. I would also wager that, had OW never been caught by OWH, the affair would have continued underground until it burnt itself out.

So, assuming my assumptions are true:

Time from beginning of A to physical: 6 months
Time from PA to ILYBNILWY: 3 months

For me the ILYBINILWY speech actualy came 2 months prior to PA - I was 2 months into EA. Did not realize it at the time - just thought he was a good friend listening to my problems. I thought the OM was helping me - little did I know how wrong I was.

My FWW's EA lasted about 8 months.

I got the "I'm not happy" speech 5 days after the EA went PA.

I'm sure it was done out of guilt, but the guilt didn't last long...

Didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech, didn't get the "I'm not happy" speech... everything seemed to be pretty good in our marriage except this close friend of FWW.

Had been agonizing for months over this relationship I saw getting too close... didn't know what to do. Finally snooped, caught her on the phone with him talking about divorcing me and moving in together, D-Day later that night (hadn't found MB yet).

Never got that speech; closest I got was "I love you, but when you do things like this, you make me hate you" (in response to my exposure to OMW).

Same here - for about a year before ILUBNILWU, I was uncomfortable with exWW and her "friendship" with POSOM. Everytime I brought it up, I always got the "he's a family member" and why do you have to act like a jerk?

I didn't get the speech. But I did get enough negative vibes that I ended up asking FWH if he was having an A ("Of course not!") Eerie, how well our bullsh*t detector works, even at the cloudiest of times...

Lizzy, can I ask you what reason did you have to make the speech? I guess I am trying to understand the logic behind it - I am wondering how many D-days wouldn't have happened if that speech wouldn't have happened.

So taking from this example the speech didn't happen in the moment it went to PA but in the moment he had to make a decision of some sort? The dynamic of the affair changed?

I got the ILYBNILWY speech the night my DH took me to dinner to tell me his decision (as a result of my ultimatum). This was after D-Day but I don't remember exactly how long after.

Oh, and their A went PA the night they met.

That's one way of looking at it. Does this align with your theory?

In some way yes - I think that something is happening which makes that speech happening in that moment if you know what I mean.I guess I am trying to figure our what happened in my WH's case so he made the speech on that day back in April. I know it's only a guess anyway but it keeps my mind busy

Oh yeah, thats it I got the speech the moment he had to make a decision betw OW and me......My speech was "I love you like a sister".....My thought on it was that he in other words was saying I want to have sex with OW but I want me and you to still be buddies....

Of course this was when he was trying to convince me that what would be best is if he moved downstairs so he could be there for DS and I....

It seems like it should be the "I want my cake and eat it too" speech....

Sometimes I think the speech has also another purpose - in my case anyway - WH told me all the things he disliked about me - now maybe they were shown in an extreme but I think some of them were actually how he really felt. So it's not only "I want my cake and eat it too..." but wanting an improved cake(in this case I am the cake ) - because what's the first thing the BS does - improving...how clever...

I also think "physical" might not have to mean "sex". Because when I think about it, there was some sort of unfinished business/EA for almost my entire marriage--even if they only spoke once or twice a year by phone. It was always done from work (him), and never disclosed to either spouse. And there was at least a 3-4 year period prior to the reunion where I think they lost contact because they exchanged cell numbers there and he'd had that number for a few years by that point. But I've come to believe there had to be something there otherwise, why not tell me 'so-and-so called me at work today...'

Anyway, it took a few times telling and retelling the story but it's stayed fairly consistent since then. At first he said there was no physical contact. Then there was a hug. Then he admitted a kiss. Then he admitted it was on the lips.

I think there was some pretty passionate kissing involved and some clothes may have even come off but I'm still fairly sure that they didn't go all the way with it. However, it was enough to classify as PA in my mind and when he came home from that reunion...THAT was when I got the ILYBINILWY speech. So that fits the theory as well.

Interesting theory. When you think about it, it's not like ILYBNILWY comes up in casual conversation around the dinner table. And it's also not really temper-tantrum driven either - "I hate you" usually fills that bill. It seems to be more of a prethought, planned-out speech designed to serve a purpose, be it cake eating or some way to get the OP while not ticking off the BS. Would you agree?

I have no doubt that the things WH told me that he disliked about me were things that he actually disliked about me and how he actually felt at the time. But it was definitely the affair behind why he disliked those things and felt that way. Many of the things wrong with me were characteristics I had when we met. Why would you date someone with green eyes if you hate green eyes? It doesn't make sense but then nothing waywards do is logical. You can't get hung up on this stuff because it's misguided and half-crazy. And when the dust finally settles - they don't really dislike that stuff that much at all. They might even miss it.

The timing of the ILUBNILWU speech in my case may have coincided with exWW finally crossing the boundary from EA to PA (maybe not SF but behavior which jeopardizes a marriage and NO spouse would approve of). From what I could piece together from OM's history, SOMETHING physical happened in the days prior to the speech. Based on his history, he probably put a LOT of pressure on exWW because he knew if I wasn't off the property in two weeks, he would lose his horses to his father's repossession. THere is no coincidence that POSOM's father was supposed to take possesion of POSOM's horses the day AFTER exWW placed the first protection order on me.

I agree that the speech seems kind of pre-planned designed to serve a purpose.

My WH kept tellin me before Dday "blonde hair is out, you know.".....Huh? I think at this point he just hated everything about me....He hated the way I ate, the way I chewed gum, my fingernails, the way I brushed my teeth, the way I decorated the house 10 years ago...and loved everything about OW, who had black hair BTW and was obviously perfect.....

I distinctly remember when my WH, H at the time, one of the last times he said that blonde hair was out, i was so mad, because it was such a stupid thing to say to me and he kept tellin me it...I said to him "The bald look is in you know"....He has soooo much thick black hair and I know he would never shave it bald....He was like "really?"...idiot.

actually stillhere, I don't know why but when I read your posts I always thought you had dark hair Don't ask me why.

Yeah my WH is now into dark haired too - hungarian women are mostly dark haired
And yes you guessed correctly - I am blonde

That is funny, it is weird how you get a picture in your head of the people on mb...I should do a thread on what I think everyone looks like...

Actually I hate to admit it but now my hair is gray now, I am only 40... UGHHHH! I have to color it.....After Dday I told my hairdresser I was thinkin of dyin my hair black...and she refused to do it, she said I would look horrible with black hair and now would have grey roots growin in which is not too bad with the blonde....so I compromised and the back of my hair underneath I got dyed black....I guess you could call it a mid life crises thing...all the teenagers around here are doin it....

See I color my hair when I have a midlife crises, not CHEAT.....

Stillhere don't feel bad. I've been colouring my hair since I was 35. My natural colour is a very dark brown but I've been gradually going lighter as, like you say, the grey roots don't stand out as much and the older I get, the less my original dark remains!

As for things WS's suddenly like/dislike, way way back - about 8 months before d-day, my DS totalled my car. I had been planning a scheme to eventually replace that car with a pickup truck so that I could have something to pull a horse trailer. This was NOT on WXH's agenda and he considered everything to do with my horse a waste of money. I had already begun my plan - leaving hints around and looking up required features etc., but I had figured I had about 2 years left on the car and plenty of time to warm him up to the idea of a truck. To make things worse, because of my long commute, the truck would have to be his regular transport while I drove the other more fuel efficient car. But when DS totalled it, I had to act immediately, otherwise I would have to wait out the lifetime of a new car. He was very surly about it and I practically dragged him kicking and screaming to various dealerships to look at trucks. Then suddenly, (after work) he was all enthusiastic, found the truck he wanted and off we went to buy it. I couldn't have stopped him if I tried.

I'll give you 3 guesses what happened here and the first 2 don't count.

OK, I can't say for 100% that I know for sure, but let's just say that OW is now the regular driver of that truck and has been since they moved in together.

OMG, Tabby...what a ba$[censored]! I hate them, I hate them, I hate them....yeah he probably consulted with OW and she said oh a truck would be good for US!!!!!!

My WH is now driving a 1995 white car that was mine...he always hated it cuz it was white....but before dday he only needed it to go five minutes up the street to work everyday...we otherwise used the new car...

Well of course he has been saying he needs a new car now...to drive and hour back and forth to see OW I assume...well he has been tryin to take my new car(I dont care as long as a get a car that is reliable) to see if he can trade it in for two lower model new cars.

...he even asked me what color I wanted if it worked out, DS told me dad is getting a white one....you know the color HE HATED for a car...gee I wonder who the white car is for?

wrong thread

Quite the interesting topic. I didn't get the ILYBINILWY speech, but I did get the "I'm not happy speech." I thought the timing was very odd.

I asked her about it and she just replied, "It seemed it was a time I could talk with you." It was Friday, Oct 23. Her DS13 and DD15 were spending the weekend with us. I had just finished paying the bills and was in poor spirits due to the dwindling bank account I was seeing. I went upstairs and told WW, "For the first time in 15 years, I couldn't pay all the bills right now if I had to." It was then she decided to unload the bombshell.

She didn't admit to the A that night. I asked if she found someone else to please keep it to herself. She replied that she "wouldn't rub my nose in it." RED FLAG.

The next day after running recent behaviors and activities through my mind, I asked her if there was someone else and she admitted it.

I really don't know when the EA became a PA. Just today I found his email address. She had sent him an innocent (I read it) message on 9/11 (more great timing, eh?).

Chronology as I know it:

• July - WW is fired from job
• July - WW files grievance over firing
• August - OM spends time at the beach w/ his children (Facebook)
• August/Sept - WW is spending more and more time with "girlfriends."
• October 23 - I'm Not Happy I'm Leaving speech
• October 24 - DDay

I speculate the A became physical some time in late August/early September. But that's pure speculation.

I will let you all know once I find out what happened the 4th of April 09 in my case.

It was a Saturday so that would kinda fit