ok, so I hid the recorder in his car, I herd him ask this OW how much she loves him and does she want to marry him. She is his employee, she has requested a transfer to a different store so that he can keep his job. He is still denying everything and I point blank asked him if he wanted a divorce and he said no. He has really been working on getting things down around the house and I am guessing that he is doing this so he will not feel guilty when he leaves.
I have not yet confronted him about the tape. I am still in love with him and want this marriage to work but he keeps denying everything. Also sends me texts messages all day long telling me he loves me and wants to ML 3 to 4 times a week. Why would you do that to me?
He might be having multiple A or he might be a sex addict...hard to tell.
Generally speaking when H have an A they are colder towards the W and do not seem interested in ML with her.
I would wait on the veterans to see what they tell you.
Do you know who OW is? She is his co-worker...but is she also a "friend"?
He might be trying to completely fool you and cake eat. Do you have kids?
blessing
He is "cake eating," CherryChip. He is telling the OW one thing and you another.
He is in FantasyAffair Land. You cannot believe a word he says.
DO NOT REVEAL YOUR INFORMATION SOURCES. You are not ready yet to give him that kind of advantage.
Continue to gather your evidence and then, when he's not paying attention, NUKE THE AFFAIR BY EXPOSING IT TO EVERYONE WHO COUNTS.
Does OW have a husband or GF? Do you know who his parents are? They work together, so his company/boss will have to know -- they are using company resources to pursue immoral, unethical and perhaps illegal activities.
You have to BLOW UP the affair. Until you are ready to do so, DO NOT GIVE HIM ANYTHING HE CAN (and will) USE AGAINST YOU.
Yes, I have met the OW a couple of times, she was definately not a friend until he became manager at this store. We have three children, two from a previous marriage and we have a 2 1/2 year old daughter. I keep thinking about the two of them together all day long and it is so painful!
I literally have panick attacks!
Thank you Fred. You took the words out of my mouth...or fingers...whatever.
OW has been married, cheated on first husband with another individual at work, lived with him for several years and is now having an A with my WH. I have three months of phone bills that he does not know about.
His address on the phone bill is hers.
He is supposed to be going out of town this weekend with the Boys!
Should I drive by this persons house?
When will the pain go away so I can focus on what I need to do?
No, leave OW alone for now. You need to concentrate on gathering more evidence. I guess phone bills, tape recorded items...those are all good. When you have enough evidence then you can Expose the A and that gives you hope for the A to die. If not, then you will have to do plan A and eventually plan B.
The pain will not go away for now because now you are gathering evidence and you are feeding the pain just by doing that. But it is necessary because you have kids and you need to protect yourself.
Even if the A ends, you will have to recover the M and that is a lot of work. But the pain stays for a while but it will not be as strong as it is now.
blessing
OW has been married, cheated on first husband with another individual at work, lived with him for several years and is now having an A with my WH. I have three months of phone bills that he does not know about.
His address on the phone bill is hers.
He is supposed to be going out of town this weekend with the Boys!
Should I drive by this persons house?
When will the pain go away so I can focus on what I need to do?
I'm confused. CherryChip, I know you're distressed and in near-panic mode, but it would help if you could be a little more specific...
What would driving by her house do, except just aggravate you more? You don't need that. I also don't understand your comment about his address being on her phone bill. Is her phone in his name? Is he paying for it?
As for the pain, no one knows exactly when the pain goes away. What I can tell you from my own experience is that posting here is a great way to unload your emotions and get loving support from people who know exactly what you're going through.
Keep responding to this thread, and you will find a wealth of veterans with a ton of good advice coming to your aid. You CAN get through this, and with our help, you WILL get through this!
This affair must be exposed now.
Do no reveal your sources.
Work exposure must be done also.
I guess I am in total panick mode. We do not have the same cell phone service he has sprint and I have verizon.
He changed the billing address on his phone bill from ours to hers.
Am I suppose to act like nothing is wrong and try to win his love back?
To get hard evidence. A dated latenight photo of both cars in driveway (or his) is more proof than "I miss you" text. This may be helpful for her in work related exposure (Still married/living at home with kids/A)
CC: You should be in plan A now. This will give you time to collect your thoughts. Do not believe a thing he says.
Am I suppose to act like nothing is wrong and try to win his love back?
Have you not understood that this adultery is best stopped when it is EXPOSED. Not exposed to WH and OW, they already know they are cheating.
EXPOSE to family, friends, work.
I am afraid. He got so angry when I confronted him about the phone bills. He told me I was crazy and making stuff up... lie after lie. I am afraid if I do tell then he will be so mad
because his parents will be so crushed that he would not want to work on the marriage.
I am afraid. He got so angry when I confronted him about the phone bills. He told me I was crazy and making stuff up... lie after lie. I am afraid if I do tell then he will be so mad
because his parents will be so crushed that he would not want to work on the marriage.
From Notable Posts.
Written by Star*Fish.
It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.
Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear
Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".
There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.
MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.
You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.
Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.
If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.
Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.
Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.
Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.
Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.
And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.
I guess I am looking for support and encouragement to get over my fears and confront the situation in the correct manner.
Get as many resources to share with him to fix our marriage.
Of course he got angry, CC. They ALL get angry. Your marriage might survive his anger, but it WON'T have a chance of survival with his infidelity in full swing.
Let me tell you about his anger, too...it's a PLOY to divert attention FROM him and ONTO you...why in the world would you accept his anger for actions that he's doing wrong? YOU'VE done NOTHING wrong...NOTHING.
I've told other people this...he is like a pufferfish...he uses his anger to puff up and SCARE the bejeebers out of you so that you'll forget what you're doing and run away and hide. Are you so readily put off and scared away? Are you AFRAID to stand up for your marriage and your family?
You've come to the wrong place if you are.
Remember this when he gets mad and call him this name in your head, "PUFFERFISH!"
And SHARE NONE OF YOUR RESOURCES WITH HIM YET!!!!!!!
Gah.
Why tell the enemy your battle plan?
Right now, with adultry clouding his brain, he is not able to comprehend MB principles.
Thanks Pep for posting Starfish's Fear Post. Every time I see it I am more and more convinced that it should be a sticky note on this forum and everybody entering here should read it. So much wisdom in that post.
CC - read the post over and over. Print it out if necessary. Your fear is paralyzing you and it WILL cause you to ultimately lose your M.
Mindshare
never reveal your source
WH's always try to use anger
to get you off the exposure course
they will say they were going to come back
until you had to go expose
I think you have enough evidence to expose. Letter to HR, or even better yet, arrange meeting with HR and his boss, walk with the DVR, expose the A, then play the recording if he or the OW denies it. That will be nuclear with a capital N.
There's a "standard" exposure letter available in this forum somewhere (I keep forgetting the name of the thread) if you take the letter approach.
Your WH will likely lose his job (after all, he's the manager and should know better than to go boinking with his subordinates), but that's something you will likely have to accept if you want to recover your M.
My two cents...
You caught him on tape proposing to marry the other woman.
That's more than enough proof to expose if you want to save your marriage. But not enough to convince a judge if you want a divorce on grounds of adultery.
CC- I'm new here and am the BS. I just wanted to encourage you that you've come to a good place. I've found that there's lots of good information here.
Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I have printed off the story about fear - it is right on que.
I am actually enabling his behavior by not confronting it.
This is going to be the hardest thing I have ever done.
I am actually enabling his behavior by not confronting it.
This is going to be the hardest thing I have ever done.
It's damn hard. You got that right too.
Read the Carrot/Stick thread. (link I posted)
Then ask questions.
It IS hard darling. Take it from the woman who did EVERYTHING wrong, exposure is a lot easier than enduring your husband cowing you with his anger and continuing his path towards h-e-double-hockey-sticks.
Trust.
CherryChip, there are a LOT of people on this forum who have been exactly in your place. Those that listened to the vets either recovered their marriages or decided to D and move on after giving it their all...but in either case, they ALL emerged stronger, more whole and healthier than before.
Those that didn't listen to the vets advice continued to spin their wheels, driving themselves deeper into despair and often driving the marriage right off a cliff.
Everyone was scared before exposing. Steel yourself to expect his anger and start rehearsing some canned responses.
"I am fighting for our marriage" is a good one to start with.
I agree with whomever said to be in Plan A now. But make your exposure plans and do it nuclear style...all at once or they will start to spin their story to whomever you have NOT exposed to.
Also, start making plans for Plan B *now*. Depending on your emotional fortitude, you will only be able to plan A for a short time. If the A doesn't end (verified by you of course), then you will have to go to Plan B and it helps if you have all your ducks in a row beforehand, so you can just flip that switch.
What is your exposure plan?
You must PLAN this. It must be done calmly and methodically and the only way to achieve this is to PLAN it!
I book marked the carrot and stick of plan A. I know this is going to sound like a silly schoolgirl but,
when do I start the exposure? I mean, he has inventory coming up the first week of February,
I do not want to screw with his job.
I book marked the carrot and stick of plan A. I know this is going to sound like a silly schoolgirl but,
when do I start the exposure? I mean, he has inventory coming up the first week of February,
I do not want to screw with his job.
WH's sisters/brothers/parents.
Your mutual friends.
Your neighbors (unless they're not good peeps)
Exposure at work will help a lot.
Do not rule that out.
They work together.
One of them has got to go.
>when do I start the exposure?
That's part of your plan, hon.
Also, I worked somewhere where PI (physical inventory) was VERY important...but you know what?
YOU didn't cause this. HE made this choice...that he didn't think about this potential outcome is a RESULT of his poor planning, doncha think?
Cause and effect...they teach that in business courses, yanno.
I'd not wait till Feb...that's way too long for you to have to endure his temper and infidelity imo. That's like pouring vinegar on your open and bleeding wounds.
Cowgirl up for YOU and your family. This week, chica. It needs to be done soon.
You have to expose to the HR department of his work, letting them know that you are waiting to see what they do about a workplace affair BEFORE you decide what steps YOU will take about their company.
Your marriage can survive his anger; it cannot survive another woman.
I already know what they do, he gets fired because he is the manager, ow keeps her job.
I already know what they do, he gets fired because he is the manager, ow keeps her job.
no consequences for choices = no impetus to change
Exposure at the office is the right thing to. The consequences he subsequently suffers there would be because of his decision to indulge in an affair with a coworker, period.
...and, cherrychip, as difficult as that may be financially, it may be the right thing to do.
I'd suggest exposure BEFORE review time. He'll be under the microscope anyway, and factoring in an affair with an underling would be a sure way to put pressure on the affair.
You can negotiate with a bank to suspend payments temporarily due to loss of a job.
You can't negotiate with a wayward who's abusing you carrying on an affair despite your pleas to stop... the only negotiation is persuasion to stop the affair. Boy, dropping an exposure bomb onto his performance review would be pretty powerful persuasion!
Plus, if he keeps his job but dumps you, you don't have his job anymore anyway.
I already know what they do, he gets fired because he is the manager, ow keeps her job.
You don't know this. If he does get fired that's on him for being an idiot. They may just put OW's transfer through. Either way they can't keep working together if you want to try and save your marriage.
Treating an affair is so much like treating substance abuse that it's scary.
There are three phases of substance abuse. Simply put, they are
- Fun
- Fun--but with some consequences
- Consequences
In nearly every affair mentioned or discussed here, they also seem to follow this pattern. Even those very rare cases where the AP stay together, the consequences seem to weigh down on them more than anything else.
Exposure is the first consequence. It doesn't necessarily mean that the affair stops being fun, but until exposure, it has been nothing BUT fun. Once exposure takes place, other consequences begin to rain down on the AP. In some cases it's just a drizzle and in others a major torrent, but it's like the crack in the dike.
No matter how far the affair goes, it eventually becomes more consequences than anything else. Why else do so many fail?
This is one argument for rescuing a marriage. If the affair can be nipped in the bud before the consequences get dire, recovery has a better chance. Just like the addict, the longer and harder addicted, the slimmer the chances for sobriety.