Well, we had our lunch talk today, and he had his ring on, and we just chit-chatted for most of the lunch, and I kept wondering if he really had anything serious to talk about. Finally it came out, he had been doing a lot of thinking, and wants a separation and move towards divorce. Why would he bother wearing his ring? He said - with tears in his eyes, and alump in his throat - that I am his friend - always have been, and he loves me and doesn't want to hurt me. He says it's not fair to leave me hanging and wondering what's going on while he "figures things out". He thinks it's hurting me. duh.... and divorcing won't hurt? <P>Well, he said the affair has been over for a while - they hardly ever talk. I feel like I believe him... but I honestly don't know how much they really talk and if she's really still part of this equation. <P>Ya'll, I am just really scared he is DONE and will never come around. I'm scared that he really doesn't love me anymore and never will. He says he wants to be always friends - I told him I don't think that will be possible (that is how I feel). We talked for a bit, and without preaching (I think ) I just encouraged him - as a "Friend" - to be really sure of something like this. He shouldn't worry about me "waiting" - that it's MY choice to wait - my commitment to him - that we've been together 11 years, I love him, and I am willing to wait for a SHORT time for him to figure out what he wants. And that I'm taking this time to reflect on myself and make improvements, and learn about relationships and how to improve on what we had. I told him I want him to be happy - I don't want him to be miserable, and the reseources and help is available to correct whatever caused this train-wreck, and we can be better than before. But he will have to decide what he wants - I can't decide for him. I told him a little about all the "love and vows" debates going on here - that he's not alone in wondering what it all means. THat made him a little more comfortable.... maybe he'll come here.<P>He complimented me on my Plan A changes over the last 2 months. He asked me - and was hoping - that I made these changes for ME. I said YES, but for YOU too. TO show you how much I care about YOU and the marriage, and that I am willing to learn and grow. I told him someone will have the benefit of being married to the best me ever, and I hoped it would be him. After we talked a bit, he admitted that he DOES need to think and be sure about all this.<P>So.... anyway.... that's it in a nutshell. I expect separation papers of some kind in the next week or two. Probably just in time for my B'day on the 14th. <P>I know it's not over. If OW is really outta here, I can probably step up my efforts to fill EN's. I'm really not sure where to go from here. <P>Any advice, suggestions, opinions, feedback, hugs, kicks, etc....... ???? WS or BS opinions welcome.... <P>Thank you all so much. YOu are truly wonderful.

Faith,<P>I am so sorry to hear this, I know I havn't posted much to you but I have been reading your threads and posts. I have seen how hard you've been trying and I know you have been doing a great job. Just remember that your a great person and if he doesn't chose to stay, then that has got to be the biggest mistake of his life. He just doesn't realise what a great W he has.<P>I think you should hang in there, don't get you're hopes up, but you've got nothing to lose at this point, so give it all you got. It's not over yet. Maybe suggest to him you want to go on one last mini vacation or something before he makes his mind up. Tell him you want to spend one week of fun together just so he knows for sure. Just a thought. As they say "It's not over till the fat lady sings". <P>W and I will be praying for you.E

Faith, I am so sorry that it came out like this. If there is a bright spot to be had, it would be that you now know what is on his mind so you can at least proceed from an informed point of view. <P>Here is a big hug for you:<P> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[FAITH1}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Hi Faith:<P>Hon, two months is such a short time...and I know this seems like the end and he won't ever change his mind...but please believe me that even if the A is over (and I would seriously doubt that) it took a long time and effort for him to get to this place (out of the marriage and his unhappiness) and he still is heavily in the fog of his own beliefs about what he needs. Right now he thinks that is a divorce.<P>It may take separation and being apart to give him the perspective he needs to be able to see where his best interest lie...but don't be discouraged by that...because just as it takes time for an A to fall apart...it takes time for the mindset that produced the affair to fall apart too.<P>Hang in there...you handled this very hurtful situation so well...and I'm sending you a angel in my thoughts to comfort and support you through this hard time.<P>Faye<P>

For what it is worth faith I don't think he has figured much of anything out yet. Don't have relationship talks, just do what you did. Keep your head high, show no fear (even if you are dieing inside), act confident, even if he does serve you, and make it clear the new and better you is moving forward, not crying in your pillow. That he is welcome and desired, but you are going forward with or without him. There is a tendency of folks in these circumstances (and I am no exception) to make all this into a shakespearian tradjedy...but it isn't.... is just life, the sun will come up tomorrow, people will live and love be born and die, we really aren't all that important, nor is our life....comfort comes from having a plan, acting on it with confidence, and knowing God will take care of our fears.

{{{Huggggz my friend}}}<P>You hang in there...it ain't over yet! Focus on you, give him what he needs when he is around and give you what you need all the time!! You are a wonderful person!! Don't let go yet!<P>Trueheart

Faith,<P>Your H does not know what he wants. He's still very conflicted. I hope it's okay to say this, but I doubt he has ended it with OW. Just gut feeling and MB experience speaking here.<P>You did so good, you really are a True MBer! You were so calm and had such good answers. I'm proud of you. <P>I think your H needs time, he's accessing what he will loose if he D's. Harley says you can gauge the chances and success of recovery from an A by the compassion and remorse the WS demonstrates for the BS. And from your meeting and what was said, your H shows concern for you, to me that says a lot. I don't mean to get your hopes up, I'm just telling you what I perceive from your meeting.<P>I would continue with Plan A, long distance. You seem to have a pretty healthy love bank and you're not showing any signs of losing love for your H (LBs). Try to not talk about relationship stuff in the future if you can help it. I know he initiated it this time, but from here on try and make things light unless he wants to talk serious. Then really listen to what he's telling you, somewhere in there he' telling you what he needs from you that he wasn't getting before the A occured.<P>One other thing. This is so important, Faith ... IMHO I would not have your H come here. There are so many reasons it's NOT a good idea. I fell into the same trap, I thought if my H came here and read my posts he would have an epiphany, not so. Every single WS that has visited MB at their BS's urging, before they are TRULY in Recovery and wanting the marriage, has misunderstood the intention of MB, and the situation becomes a disaster. Please keep this place for you and your support alone for now.<P>Very Best Faith ...<P>Love,<BR>Jo

thank you all so much for your replies. Please keep them coming. And yes, Jo, anyone, you can say ANYTHING to me. please don't hold back your opinions and insight.<P>sem - I love the mini-vacation idea. I will have to keep that in the bcak of my mind for now. Just based on little things I have tried. <P>Dana - yes. I am so glad to know where he stands right now. I haven't asked in 7 weeks - nor has he volunteered. <P>buffy - thank you so much for the encouragement and reminder of the fog. I agree. <P>snl - thank you. your opinions are always worth a great deal to me! yes, confidence and strength. He noticed and complimented me on my growth in this area. I liked your reply to lupo also. <P>((((trueheart)))) - it's always good to hear from you. <P>Jo - thank you. please say anything to me. don't hold back. Holding back won't help me any . Yes, he seems very unsure what he wants. You're right - I need to listen more. I was sitting here tonight asking myself exactly what is it he was unhappy about? He says he has been unhappy for 2 years - but is a very good actor and didn't show it - or at least so that I could see. plus there were other issues. I will not encourage him to come here. He might, anyway, but I won't mention it again... thanks for the tip. I think you are right. <P>I am still wondering - and I will have to play ti by ear... if I should be a little more assertive in filling EN's. I don't EVER bring up the topics of us, the A, or the OW. I let him lead the direction of conversation today. SO I think I'm soing pretty well avoiding LB's.... jsut wondering how to fill EN's carefully....<P>thanks again everyone <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why would he bother wearing his ring? He said - with tears in his eyes, and alump in his throat - that I am his friend - always have been, and he loves me and doesn't want to hurt me. He says it's not fair to leave me hanging and wondering what's going on while he "figures things out". He thinks it's hurting me. <BR>He complimented me on my Plan A changes over the last 2 months. After we talked a bit, he admitted that he DOES need to think and be sure about all this.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Faith, I replied on the "Answered Prayers" thread, but not sure you'll go there and see it.<P>MY take on his comments are that he IS unsure of what to do next. I think he's trying to break away from her (him wearing his wedding ring is a sign he's still "somewhat" committed to his M), but unable (unwilling?) to do that now. He is afraid things might not change (at home).<P>Personally, I think he saying he wants to move toward separation and div. because he feels sooo guilty for what has happened and not believing it can be fixed. His saying he's been unhappy for 2 years is strictly revisionist history. Forget it! You are doing great, lil sis, and he's seeing the "new and improved you" for what it can be....let him stew on it for now.<P>HE brought up the "relationship" talk, HE wanted to see where you were, and where you would go with it. Now he knows. It's his move, but as we know, God has a Hand in it, too! So trust in that, and pray. I don't believe you have anything to be afraid about. As I stated in another post a couple of days ago, I believe Satan works extra hard RIGHT BEFORE a major break-through. I think that is where you are right now, and Satan is trying to work on your H to make him think there's NO HOPE. God will change his mind.<P>Our Wednesday evening "prayer meetings" are working!! I believe. <P>Lupo<BR>

faith- how long has his A been over? My H still said he was undecided about our marriage and was leaning toward D for several months after his A was over. part of it was due to the withdrawal from OW phase, part was mid-life crisis ( he is 43 and feels life is passing him by!!???) and part was due to how deep his values had skewed to get to the place where after 15 yrs of marriage he could justify his A to himself enough to do it- that takes ALOT of rationalizing and that takes time to recover from too. I agree with the poster who said its not over till the fat lady sings. You have 11 years together and if he thinks that can all end easily just as friends( by the way my H wanted the same thing when he filed for D on me and I told him no way- I would contest the D and go for main custody and start my whole life over somewhere else!) he has alot MORE To consider! Hang in there- lifeismessy

Faith<P>I also doubt that his A is completely, over. But, it is quite likely that it is waining. He is confused and that's good. Continue to Plan A, it seems to be working. 2 months, really isn't a long time.<P>Also, I don't think that you should mention your changes again. Actions speak louder than words. He will see them and does see them. Just, don't tell him that they are for him. I see that as begging. He doesn't need to know that, even if they are.

lim,<BR>thanks for your thoughts.... hmmmmm.... I will think some more along those lines. If he is telling me the truth (ha-ha) the PA was over 3 months ago - it only lasted 2 weeks - but the EA has steadily dwindled since then... they talk "occasionally". My H, even though only 30, is sortof in a mid-life kinda thing. He survived a 2-yr cancer battle, which I think has him wondering now if life is passing him by - "there must be more to this - I better enjoy it". I know that battle has a lot to do with his recent actions. All the emotions, fear, deparession... etc

Faith...<P>KEEP the FAITH ...<P>You have read my posts...you know how hopeless I have felt...<P>well, my H kissed me this weekend and we keep kissing...he is holding my hand and I feel hopeful for the first time in a long time...<P>we haven't had 'the talk,' but it is in our future....<P>SO KEEP THE FAITH...this thing has a time table of its own...as much as we want to rush it we can't...<P>kind of like the stages of infancy...just when you think you can't take another 'midnight' feeding...they start sleeping through the night...<P>God knows how much you can handle...and he won't overwhelm you...we just think we are...<P>Love,<BR>Cali

Faith,<BR>I'm so sorry that the talk didn't turn out like we had all been hoping for, your story is one I have followed since you joined the boards - I think we can all associate with different situations and peoples experiences. I know from what you say there are alot of similarities between your situation and mine.<P>I have just had a session with Steve today, and I'll share part of it with you as its relevant. Like you I believe the A is over which my W was involved with. This is OUR opportunity Faith, not too increase the pressure to make them come home, but show them we have changed. As Steve has said depending on how the A ended it could be that they are now realising the hurt and pain they caused us when we discovered the A. And this is there way of dealing with that - walking away. But there is another way, with us.<P>They don't really know what to do, hence the one sign of the wedding ring, whilst saying something else, they are still in the fog. It's important to keep laying out the carpet of opportunity for them to return.<P>I know it's so hard, I there with you at the minute - almost certain the A has ended, but the W saying she will not return, but with a ring on. They are confused, we need to keep demonstrating the consistent change, stay focused and remain positive.<P>All WS need to know that by walking away from the situation, it can not change the past, what has happened will always have occurred, however together we can use this to our advantage, to be stronger and communicate better.<P>Keep smiling, stay focused, and keep updating us on here. I hope he realises, soon, what he could be letting go of.<P>mands

My H also wanted out of our marriage. Did the "I'm sorry but I never loved you, felt sorry for you, etc." crap. Saw a lawyer and had fun playing "single" for several months. Somehow, he saw the light after quite a while and we started dating again. We were apart for 9 months which was totally necessary. We are still married, almost 6 years after his affair with my former best friend. yes, it's very hard. I just found out the truth about the affair 2 months ago and the pain is horrible. I hate the lying and double betrayal. <P>It is going to take me a long time to forgive both the affair and the years of blatant lying. I also really resent that my 'friend' would do this to me only 6 months after her wedding which we both stood in. But it is very much worth it. We've been in counseling on and off and it works wonders. Prayer does too.<P>I can feel your pain. Seems like yesterday when he knocked on the door (he was living away) and told me he had seen a lawyer that day. I almost fell to the floor I was so shocked and hurt. I thank God he didn't follow thru on his feelings at the time.<P>I send a prayer and a hug.

Faith,<BR>I agree with everyone else. I don't think your H has decided anything. I would keep Plan A'ing (if your heart can take it). Let him do the work of a separation and/or divorce if he really wants it. My H has said the same things. He is currently home working on us. Don't give up too soon. You don't have to do anything but plan A. He still sounds very confused. Remember, they really DON'T want to hurt us. That may be why he's trying to "let you go." I'll say a prayer for you. Keep your chin up, you sound as if you did GREAT!!

Faith- I'm so glad what I wrote might help you understand your H more. I didnt know WHAT hit my H at the time- he kept insisting he wanted a D, we had MANY discussions about that all initiated by him, I was very much against it. But his messed up thoughts, guilt and confusion made him think that was the right thing at the time. Obviously it wasnt in the long run because its 6 mo after d-day and now we're very much still married. Give your H time and yourself the gift of time too. read about mid life crisis that will help too. lifeismessy

Faith, Wanted to let you know that I left a message for you on the parent/in-law thread in case you didn't check back there. Estes

Faith - as many before me have already stated, hang in there and keep doing what you're doing. You recall, our stories have allot of common threads running through them...I am trying to work on myself and stay focused on being as confident as I can...letting him know I will make it with or without him...I am just now starting to figure out in my mind just how long I can put up with the current situation. I am trying to stay not dwell on the A and give him some room to try and figure things out for himself...he is really a mess right now. Sounds like your H is really struggling with the finality of filing for a D....this makes me think he is still confused as to what he wants...My prayers and thoughts are with you...Lots of hugs your way....keep doing what you're doing....even if he leaves, as you stated, you will be a better spouse for someone else later if not him.......<P>------------------<BR>always-faith4us

My dear Faith,<P><<<hugs to you>>>> I am sorry for his disappointment. I would love to send the LB fairie but right now she is busy doing a deed for me. OW called this time on the new cell phone so guess who is in trouble. <P>Anyway, now your H needs to back up his words by actions. He doesn't sound real strong about it though. Jo is a great help, isn't she? I wish I could have her, Bramble Rose, Buffy, mthrrbard, sing, you and a few more right here next to me. Faith, now is the time to watch. You have been plan Aing and it has not gone unnoticed. Good. You are way better at it than I am. <P>Let him keep seeing the good side of you. I personally don't think he is over the OW yet, even if it is his own withdrawals. But those lousey OW's have a way of coming back like a bad penny. You juse keep being your loving and sweet self. <P>Take care hon.<P>L. <BR>

Faith1,<P>I agree with some of the others that I do not think he has a clue what he wants right now. Rememeber he could also be testing you and your Plan A, maybe to get a LB reaction of some sort to possibly make his case more belivable at least to him. I've had these same type of conversations with my W and she hasn't done anything yet. I flat out told her that I was not signing any seperation papers until she agreed to go to counseling with me and the counselor of my choice. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. F1, you still need to hang in there, the fact that he is still on the fence may mean that he is still in contact of some sort. I would hold out and Plan A. <P>I just told a friend, it seems like this has lasted 6 months or more, but in reality only 2 months have gone by. That really isn't that long when you think about it. We have to be encouraged that they will see the light. I hope this helps, please keep us posted.<P>GC

Faith1,<P>I agree with some of the others that I do not think he has a clue what he wants right now. Rememeber he could also be testing you and your Plan A, maybe to get a LB reaction of some sort to possibly make his case more belivable at least to him. I've had these same type of conversations with my W and she hasn't done anything yet. I flat out told her that I was not signing any seperation papers until she agreed to go to counseling with me and the counselor of my choice. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. F1, you still need to hang in there, the fact that he is still on the fence may mean that he is still in contact of some sort. I would hold out and Plan A. <P>I just told a friend, it seems like this has lasted 6 months or more, but in reality only 2 months have gone by. That really isn't that long when you think about it. We have to be encouraged that they will see the light. I hope this helps, please keep us posted.<P>GC

Faith<P>{{{{{{{{{{huge hug}}}}}}}}}}}<P>You sound so "with It"...I know you're probably not feeling with it , but I believe your H will look at your great Plan Aing & really listen to what you said & believe you & take time to consider his actions...<P>H seems to be coming out of the fog..<P>Trying so hard to be positive today...yesterday & this am were major negative times for me<P>My H & I talked about separation & divorce all day. He says he doesn't want it, but he also can't Plan A very well.<P>But I'm failing Plan A also.<P>Good Luck<P>Lisa

You are doing so well, Faith! I didn't handle myself nearly as well when I was in your position....... <P>Just remember to use the time he is spending "thinking it through" wisely. Use it to grow and learn (which it sounds like you are doing an excellent job of). But do it for YOU, and the results will be even more dramatic.<P>BTW, loved the bit about "someone is going to get to take advantage of being married to the best ME ever". Classic and classy, dear. Classic. <P>Take care,<BR>B<P><BR>