Post deleted by jaguar - Marriage Builders® Forums

Posted By: Anonymous Post deleted by jaguar - 03/21/03 12:00 AM

Be careful. If you have to leave for work, can someone come and stay, would that help ease your mind?

Can H and daughter stay at a relatives? Would that ease your mind. Are you safe?

They would be fools to try to do anything now. But, then again, they were fools to try this. If you H had to jump out of the way, and a neighbor saw it, they had to swerve at him.

People do the dumbest things. Where were the brains at of the other three?

OMG!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> That's horrible! I don't even know what to say...I hope and pray that she won't try anything else and that she and her cohorts are prosecuted to the fullest extent. Take care and be safe.

I’ll bet you can get a ppo now!

This one gives me chills. Makes me think of "Fatal Attraction". You don't have a pet rabbit, I hope?

do be careful as PO's and charges do not protect from gun shots and vehicles. So keep an eye out just the same.

Unfortunately it seems that many times people go for the ‘wild ones’ to have affairs with. They are dangerous that the for exciting…. Well until they go off the deep end. That is why I often give the opinion of getting protective orders, calling the police, etc. at the first sign of strange behavior. It’s an attempt to put the person on notice to stop it before they get in trouble.

I’m glad to hear that so far it’s turned out ok.

I know you're not comfortable with weapons, but would you at least consider carrying pepper spray? I've heard that it can be lethal if the person has a pre-existing condition, but for the most part it just disables your attacker long enough for you to get the heck out of there. The one I have also has UV dye so the police can easily identify your attacker if they're apprehended quickly.

Any chance you can borrow a friend's yappy dog? These are excellent warning system if you pay attention to them. Also good company. You don't necessarily need a big dog, you just need one who can bark and warn you if someone approaches your home.

It's not much of a silver lining, but at least now your H should be well out of the fog now and this is a very concrete way to reinforce to him how disastrous this behavior is for him and his family. I would have to classify vandalism and attempting vehicular manslaughter as major love busters.

You can ask your local police if it is legal to carry pepper spray, but I believe it generally is. Where I live, they even sell it at K-Mart near the electronics. (I haven't figured out why it's there.) I found this site with info on which states it is legal in: Pepper Spray Legal. It literally is made of the stuff that makes pepper hot. It's also great for stopping dog attacks. I found this site with good information as well. You just can't take it on airplanes or into courthouses, etc. Same places you can't carry a pocket knife.

It is available as a keychain. If your child did manage to get to it and spray herself in the face, you would need to take her to the ER as it is excruciatingly painful.

My advice is to talk to your local police if you're comfortable with them. They usually carry it themselves and will have a lot more info on it than I do. I've heard that many police academies require that they get hit with it once themselves. If so, they can give you a testimonial on how well it works. I carried the stuff for years whenever I was out in the evening and it was a great source of comfort to know that I could temporarily blind and disable an attacker.

Hi,
Don't mean to barge in here but I have one thing to add about the pepper spray that most people don't think about. If there is any wind blowing you could have it blown back in your face.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by idontunderstand:
If there is any wind blowing you could have it blown back in your face.<hr /></blockquote>So true. DO NOT try to hang around after you've sprayed this stuff...it's horrible! My H is a police officer, so he carries it on his "batman utility belt" ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). He once sprayed it outside in a our German Shephard's hole of the week to keep him from digging.

Our teenage son tried it again about a month later, but failed to close the back door. He was trying to be helpful, but woefully underestimated the strength of floating pepper spray. We choked and gagged for over an hour. It was awful!

I'd still carry it under the circumstances, tho. Just be prepared to VACATE yourself (and your child) after you spray it.

What a horrible situation, Jazzeygirl. Talk about adding insult to injury. What a total whacko this OW is...and her sister and "friends" must be complete idiots to have helped her do something so incredibly stupid. Best of luck to you.

Lori

lol... I can relate. Had my two large dogs get in a fight in my living room once and had to pepper spray them to stop them from killing each other. Had to open every window in the house in the middle of winter and leave for a while.

LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That stuff is wicked.

After just inhaling some floating in from outside, I can't imagine taking a spray directly in the face! That's part of police academy training, and cadets MUST do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> H said he's seen combative ...um... "suspects" (innocent until proven guilty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) take a spray right in the face and barely bat an eye -- they just keep on keepin' on. Flushed out by sheer adrenelin, I guess.

Lori

JazzeyGirl:

No doubt this trial thing is going to be yet another difficult hurdle you and your H are going to have to overcome. But I think you CAN get thru this with your relationship intact.

I'm sure you know that the key is communication, communication, and more communication! Draw closer to eachother, cling to each other -- regardless of the new facts that are uncovered. It sounds like your H has totally turned away from OW and the past, and he really wants to move forward with you into a new relationship. If he's been truly repentant, don't punish him for his past actions (he can't change that)... focus on what he's doing NOW to make a strong marriage.

You've proven you are a strong woman, Jazzey. This trial isn't going to be the easiest thing, but consider it another opportunity for growth and maturing (as a person and for your relationship).

God Bless.

Lori

[ March 25, 2003, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: at peace ]

Hello all, all of you have made some good points. Thank you. I had a really great day with my W today, until I had to leave and go to work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am constantly aware of what my A has done to her and our D and I do everything I can to protect them. I try to reassure her. I have learned a lot about myself. I continue to learn more everyday.

I wish the A never had happened. If I could go back and change it I would. I have been working on the ENQ and I am planning on working on all the other Q's out there.

There is more on my mind but I think it should be on a thread on its own.

PS Later tater <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jazzy,

You need to realize that the current place of recovery you and your H are at is a coveted spot for many here. In other words, learn to appreciate it because as bad as the A was, it could be much worse for you.

Your H posts here and has made some comments which by views to outsiders, sound good. If it is accurate, this is good. If it is not, then the challenge will be to present a truthful picture and then work on recovery.

Do you and your H have the ability to have phone counseling sessions with a good MC, the Harley's or both? This may be helpful.

The BS goes through stages often posted here as stages of grief. If you find RedHat's sig line, he has a link to that thread from 2 years ago. It was real helpful to me. One of those stages included anger. Knowing those stages, is also helpful to healing.

Are you and your H spending those 15 hours or so per week together?

What is he doing to help make you feel safe? There will be triggers. For me the cell phone, e-mail, his face (he shaved his mustache of 20+ years), his work truck, his work (courier), etc. made trusting him real hard. See in the A, the WS tries real hard to be real sneaky. He might not be real good at it but he sure tried.

Working past those triggers are up to me. It is H's job to make me feel safe. Right now a look or a sigh let's him know when I don't feel safe. That's quite an improvement from 2 years ago when even deep sobs from our child and myself did not move him away from the A.

Hope this helps.
L.

Jaz, how are you doing?

L.

Jazzy: I feel you. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Sometimes we need time to try to heal without the daily trigger (WS) around. And let's face it they are the trigger. We imagine the worst and that coupled with our anger and other emotions is just too damned hard sometimes. You gotta breath. There is no timetable for this. And WS should not even attempt to put you on one. WS should be trying their best to give u what you need. They had their selfish time, now give it up!!! You are being honest, something that is foreign to WS and what u r saying is that u need time. Take it!!!
I have never been a Plan A type of gal. Some here can attest to that. I went straight to Plan B. And you know what it seems that no matter what Plan, WS does what they want and it still hurts. I felt like a doormat too. Getting WS out of the house was the only way for me to feel better about myself. Then I started thinking that this idiot has to live daily with what he did, he is suffering some deep stuff. Lost something so good and rare and it will never be the same. I keep that thought tucked away. It helps to ground me sometimes, other times I just need WS out of my face!!!. Take care. wu

Jazzy, this isn't a "win-lose" situation...you didn't "win" anything by being "chosen" except a really hard road ahead of you. So don't negate your right to be angry by thinking you're supposed to feel lucky. You aren't...you're supposed to feel exactly what you are feeling. Hurt and angry.

Things can and will get better...whether you remain together or not. Your hubby needs to quit feeling sorry for himself and show you some real compassion...show you he can be a husband and father and help you get through this. If you need time apart...then he needs to grant you that and not give you a hard time about it. You've gotten enough of that.

Take some deep breaths, try to get some sleep, and don't think you have to make any major decisions any time soon. You don't...you can let the pain subside before doing that.

So sorry for what you're going through <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Hang in there.

Hey: It's an unimaginable pain. I know for sure my WS has no idea the pain he inflicted on me. The thought that my life will forever be changed in this way. I hate it. My WS told me I should move on. Little did I know he had not. He was living the double life thing pretty good. I sometimes could not take my own mind with all I knew and thought I knew so I would just get up and leave. At times I thought I had lost my mind and wondered how I could go on with this person who would so willingly hurt me in this way and then say, "I love you." I can not see any love in that. That is confusing. You want to trust and love and have hopes and dreams again with that person but sometimes the cut is too deep. Not only was I stabbed and kicked and punched and spat upon but he allowed this OW to twist the knife, then to shoot me and laugh. He gave her the bullits. Jazzy, believe me I know where u are now. I am there. wu

Exactly: I found out a week after my mom died. The only reason I was able to be strong during her funeral is because I was under the belief that I had this wonderful man and my two beautiful daughters. I was lucky even in my dispair. Foolish me. A week later I got hit by his train moving and it just hasn't stopped. I have no respect for him. I feel he must have lost his mind somehow. Why would a sane person do this to someone they Love? God, what does that even mean in this context? Does that word (Love)really have a meaning when your spouse is stabbing you? I really had to examine my sanity. I mean maybe I am not built for this marriagebuilders stuff. Has it helped at all that you WS posts here too? wu

At least u say you want to love your FWS. I cannot say that for sure. The only thing I know for sure is that I need to move on and away from this for my own sanity. I am not sure if that will include my WS or not. This is like the 10th false recovery we have had and I am just numb. I don't believe at this point that he will ever truly appreciate me or if he even knows how to love me. His actions have not been loving but hateful. I told him today that I believe he hates me. That is a cold realization to have about someone you were devoted to. But coming here and reading helps me to see hope. I do not see it in my household but there have been miracles to witness here. I think we just need to heal ourselves with whatever means necessary and worry about the relationship second. We need to be healthy first to be in a healthy relationship. wu

R u my twin? I found out through their emails!!! He never told me anything. He was very loving and protective of her. He flew to Sweden had unprotected sex and she became pregnant so she said. He discussed marriage and even called her by his last name. Yuck. At one point he tried to have her imagine raising one of our girls as their own. Yeah right!!! She would tell me about everything. Rub my face in their dirt. And yet he protected her. Over me. I even bugged the phone and heard conversations, read emails the whole nine yards. The elaborate ways they clung together to try to deceive me. He was in bed with the devil. Oh and she aborted the "twins" she said. And by the way we live in Chicago. wu

What!!! OW tried to become my "Friend" but I had her number. She just wanted me to help her with her relationship with my husband. They are all the same. They believe they are somehow entitled to the relationship. Sometimes, and I feel this strongly-I wish WS had just left. Then I could have moved on with my life. It is much more painful to try to work it out than to just move on. And sometimes I look at him and try to figure out what it is I am working it out for. And mostly the answer is for my daughters. But don't they need a happy mom. What about that?!!! I saw what you wrote to Red. Red is by the book. Sometimes I can't deal with that. wu

Goodnight Jazzy. I'm going to bed. I will keep an eye on you. Take care. wu

Jazzy,

Your comments and feelings are very similar to many here. The 5 stages of grieving show that when there is a sudden major change in our lives (marital discord, divorce, separation, death, loss of job, etc.), each family member can go through these stages. The BS is particularly hit with this. When the recovery starts, often the BS hits that anger phase real hard. Sometimes it causes a separation. That happened to us. WS came back mid April 16, 2001, then he went to jail July 2001. Had a 2 week mandatory separation. It did me good. Of course at the end of that, there was a man on the phone crying to come home with the OW in the background yelling for me to take him back. Imagine that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Point here is that each of you have some major issues to work out individually and others together. IMHO, you need to work on the individual ones first. Do you have a good MC or can you work with Steve or Jennifer?

Jaz, it is sooo important you do this now. Right now. Let's see if we can get Lor in here. She is great at helping many. She also lived through 6 false recoveries. I have also.

I will tell you that the anger you feel will eventually subside but right now you may not want to know that. You may want to keep that anger in you for fear that once you let him back into your heart, he will do the same again. If so then the trust is lacking and that may be one of you major points to work on.

I recommend you both take the EN questionnaire again. Based on where you are in your R right now. I know you are angry at him. Take a look at the d/d site and look up 'notpeachhinga'. She is a young mother whose WS not only left his family, he kicked her and their 4 year old son out of their new home then moved OW2 into that same home. There's more, he took their son and OW1 on a trip to Disneyworld and the BS found out when her son spilled the beans. Now her WS has been stalking her with visits, calls and e-mails. Does he want her back? Well he is showing her attention but not the right kind. She may be considering a restraining order against him. He has also sent an e-mail of himself and OW2. Talk about being brash!

See Jaz, I don't think you have to deal with that kind of sitch. The fact that the OW is psyco and the fact that your H is trying to show his remorse, maybe helpful. But you have to be at a place in your emotional recovery to appreciate those points.

Now there are stories even worse than Peach's. Won't go there, yet. Just wanted to let you know that I understand what you are going through and also what else is happening out there.

You know when I 1st came to MB there was a thread about getting past our triggers and having a sort of closure ceremony. I went to the ocean and yelled it out. Looked silly but it felt good. Try it.....

Good to see Wuccus checking up on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

[ March 31, 2003, 02:25 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]

JazzeyGirl...I feel so badly for you and your H. You sound alot like me...my days were full of ups and downs in first few months past dday. One day I knew I couldn't live with him and next knew I couldn't live without him.

I usually post under the "in recovery" board...if you get a chance you might look at some of my earlier posts (December timeframe)...my H has also posted some under "tellthetruth". I think I remember posting to your H a week or two ago.

I needed the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth from my H to start on road to recovery. He didn't "forget" he would tell half truths (was always trying to make it sound better or sometimes even worse then it was)....it was sooo frustrating I thought I'd lose my mind. Here he was saying he'd do anything to stay together yet he couldn't give me what I really needed...complete honesty.

In the beginning he was afraid to tell me too much at a time...didn't think I could handle it. Then when he started opening up more...it was hard to keep truths and lies separate...I like you would find all wholes and inconsistencies in his story. He saw me crumbling before his eyes from my need to get at the truth but there was no single "light bolt" for him...it happened in degrees. He did finally tell me the whole truth (even had him take a polygraph to confirm). He didn't do this until I had proven that I could take the truth and that truth really was what I needed to start to heal.

How do you handle it when he tells you the truth about something?

For my H it took seeing my pain, kids pain, IC, MC, reading books to get him to place he is now..now he is an OPEN BOOK. An open book who tells me and shows me he loves me in lots of ways every day. He has proven by his actions that he has learned his lesson and that he will NEVER do anything like this again. Both our IC/MC and Steve Harley said that this was an anomaly for him...now that he's had all the education and counseling...I can feel safe that this will never happen again.

I know you've read alot of the books...has your H read them all...my H read them all right along with me..we discussed what we read every step of the way. I know you said you can't afford counseling but if you have a credit card with available credit on it...call Steve Harley and set up an appointment. We counseled with him 6-7 times at around $185 session on top of IC and regular MC. It was worth it!

Recovery from an A is the hardest work either of you will ever do but it is worth it! Key is that both have to be willing to do WHATEVER it takes.

Your H and you both need IC ( I take it that you don't have insurance) borrow money if you need to set up a payment plan...whatever. Your lives and your daughters life is worth it.

Once I started really listening to my H I realized that I contributed equally to the spot our M was in (no excuses for A though)...I was controlling and disrespectful at times.

He was a passive agressive and a conflict avoider.

We both had childhood issues that contributed to who we were...we were both treated and given the education and psychological tools we needed to change.

We are happy now, our kids are happy, we are emotionally and physically strong.

Please take care of yourself...last corner we had to turn was when I collapsed from physical and mental exhaustion..almost had to be hospitalized. Scared crap out of me and my H...I went on Zoloft and my H took me away for 3 days and gave me my medicine, made sure I ate, made sure I slept and most importantly talked to me and loved me.

Our IC/MC said was best thing that could have happened...forced my H to be the strong one...showed him that I did really need him!

Best Wishes!

Jaz,

One thing I learned was that H really didn't remember everything that I had embedded in my mind. He asked how could I remember such detail, my response was how could I not? He said he had blocked it and couldn't recall all of it, it was too painful. Yet somewhere I sensed he also missed it, hated it, loved it. No wonder they are confused.

Then I had to decide if I was going to be part of that confusion. Well if we were going to heal together, a part of it was going to involve me but I decided it was not going to be more than I could handle. Then I had to decide how much I could handle. I always could handle more that I should have. Now I needed to scale back.

So for me I learned to pull back. Let him do more. That helped.

I let him know of some of the triggers. I learned to let him participate in the healing and even take the lead in it.

I have less stress and less tolerance.

L.

I think it's FAR more likely that he'll walk into that courtroom and feel nothing but shame and embarassment. I really wouldn't worry about that. His "relationship" with OW is now being held up to the BRIGHT light in front of lots of people; I'm sure it no longer looks anything like the fantasy he thought it was. Serious reality check, huh.

I'm SO glad you don't have to be present for the yucky stuff in court...if you decide you don't want to be.

I really think this is gonna be o.k. for you and your H, JazzyGirl. Just be patient with yourself and your H.

Take time to enjoy the long-awaited Springtime, Smile at something funny, buy a new lipstick, bear hug your daughter and your H in a big 'ol group hug....enjoy life and learn from it.

Make a determination to not just survive, but to THRIVE!

Lori

Hi Jazzy: Glad to see you feeling better. What a diffence a day makes!!! Love it.

I would not put too much faith in affair coming to light. My WS did not see himself as pathetic. OW called him a scumbag - he ran back to her. She lied and hurt him - he ran back. She tried to hurt me - he ran back. And now she has laughed at him in all his stupidity - I fully expect him to run back. At this point I do not think there is anything she can do that he would not forgive and accept from her. And I think she knows this. I am too afraid of them to get back into this marriage. As soon as he thinks everything is okay with me again, she contacts him and he is back in. What can I say, he enjoys sleeping with snakes. Talk soon. wu

Hi JG,

Listen Hon, my husband's OW #1 poured sugar in my gas tank and then rammed a shopping cart into one of my doors ... she then threatened to kill me TWICE! I had drive bys, no shooting, just the "slow drive by with dome light on and music blarring" past my house at 2:00a type-harassment.

Then OW #2 harassed me on our answering machine when I was sick with cancer, she was abusive and called me vile names, and had never met me!

At the time, my then-husband knew all about all of this, and what did he do ... N-O-T-H-I-N-G, N-A-D-A, Z-I-P.

To this day I don't understand his reluctance in supporting or defending me from these violent unstable women that HE BROUGHT into our lives. It hurt unbelievably.

There came a time that I simply had to stand up for myself. At the urging of our therapist, I finally took OW #2 to court and had a Anti-Harassment Order placed on her. My H was somewhat dumbfounded ... stunned that I did such a thing ... UNTIL his sisters got on his tail to start supporting me to make OW leave me alone. They were mortified that I was subjected to all this.

But I'll tell you what, that AHO was the best thing I did out of all of this. It gave me back some self esteem, empowered me to know that I have rights and don't have to take this abuse from PERFECT STRANGERS simply because I was married to someone they wanted.

I vote you take her to court, Hon. An AHO is much more serious when violated that is a RO. If the OW violates it, the judge told her she would go directly to jail, no question. From all that you've posted, it sounds as tho you have plenty of factual hard evidence to file one.

Stand up for yourself. You don't have to take this abuse.

Lv,
Jo

[ April 02, 2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]

My wife is a lot like that too. It took me a long time to realize how low her self-esteem really was because she always acted just the opposite. I always complimented her on how good she looked and what a good mother she was but it didn't seem to matter coming from me. She is very needy of attention and the OM she hooked up with is in his mid-thirties, living by himself with no family. So I can see why he was able to meet her needs so well.

It is amazing some of the types these WS end up with. You are obviously a bright and caring person and your husband gets hung up on someone like THAT? My wife used to be pretty well centered and had good common sense but when the OM tells her how much he loves kids (because we have five)she falls for it totally. This guy has three kids of his own, one that he moved four states away from that he never sees and two more that he actually told my wife his grandmother took , faked their death certificates and he can't get the police or anyone to believe him that they are still alive so he doesn't know where they are. She actually believes this insane story too and feels sorry for him!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally asked by JazzeyGirl:
Why do you think it is that when we would complement our spouses that it went in one ear and out the other. But when the OM or OW said nice things to them they bought it? I do not get it.

JazzeyGirl<hr /></blockquote>I think I can answer this one.

Maybe it's because the OP does not know the WS and the WS feels the BS does. So, because of their self esteem issues they may feel anyone that really knows them wouldn't compliment them and be sincere about it.

I think I may have made it more complicated than it is. ughh....

Jo

I think people with big self-esteem problems need those compliments from others. It doesn't mean as much to them coming from there spouses because they hear it from them so often and it isn't enough for them after a while.

Jazzey Girl,
I don't post here often, not one of the "regulars" (I post on another board). Just wanted to wish you luck with upcoming court proceedings. My H's xOW harrassed us for a full year after the A ended. It was an 8 mth affair but he had been trying to end it for months (OW's own mother said she knew this to be true so I'm not just taking his word) but every time he tried to end it or avoid her, she would threaten him with telling me. When he finally did get the guts to end it, she called and exposed the A to me same day. Crazy little b**ch then proceeded calling my house repeatedly threatening to go to my H's business and kill herself, threatening to expose the A to my children. On & on it went. Though patient with her in the beginning, we both finally told her she HAD to stop calling and move on. She wouldn't stop. She was making hang-up calls all hours of the day and night 10-15 times a day. In addition she was continually driving past our home (which BTW is on a cul-de-sac at the end of a dead end street almost a half hour from where she lives). She also had our business phone #'s and didn't hesitate calling there too, so it would've done no good to change our home #'s - she would only have bothered us more at work. We finally filed a complaint. The police warned her to stop. She wouldn't. She was arrested and put in jail for telephone
harrassment. Her mother called saying that she was calling from jail and crying and they didn't have money to bail her out. I refused to drop the charge. However, and this was still early in the game, I started to feel a bit sorry for her and my H and I gave her mother half of the bond money with a note signed by both of us asking her to never contact either of us again. Within three weeks, she was calling again. Followed me to Wal-mart on one occasion. I took pictures of her driving past my home. She called and cursed me about that and the police picked her up and wrote her another summons. She failed to show up for court dates for the first arrest and the summons and bench warrants were issued, plus she was now wanted for bond forfeiture. She began calling from a cell phone that couldn't be traced so I had difficulty proving to the authorities that it was on-going. She screwed up though one night and forgot to block her number and it came up on my caller ID. We were able then to get phone records. She was arrested again this past January and this time spent 9 days in jail.

We finally had our court date in February. She had to pay fines adding up to about $850 and was ordered never to contact either of us again else it will be a FELONY and she'll do more jail time.
Another thing which I thought was kinda strange is that the judge also ordered her to write 2,500 lines of "I will not do stupid things" and bring back to court when she comes to pay her fine. Juvenile punishment for juvenile behavior I guess. I just thought it was kinda funny. I don't think she got near enough punishment for the hell she put us through but the best part is that we haven't heard a peep from her since. So, hopefully, it is over. It's been 16 mos since the A ended. H and I have been working hard at recovery and for the most part it is going well (still have the occasional "down" day). Now we can really concentrate on recovery without the constant harrassment and interference from her.

Good luck to you! Let us know how it goes.

--Almost There

JG,
No, I didn't have to testify. She pled guilty (though initially she pled not quilty then changed her plea) b/c she knew we had her. All the evidence was there. I did fax a 3 page correspondence to the Judge several days prior to the trial date though outlining all that had happened. In court he acknowledged that he had read it and thanked me for it. Though her punishment wasn't that much (with it being first offense), he was pretty harsh on her verbally. I too dreaded the court date, was worried about having to testify, having to face her again. As a matter of fact a friend gave me a nerve pill that I took that morning before going to court. She actually gave me two and I took one several days before just to see what it would do to me, b/c I didn't want to go in there and be all dopey. Actually, and I don't know if maybe the pill helped, but I was fine, better than I imagined I would be. I think the anticipation of it was worse than the actual event. You'll be fine, JG, really you will. Remember, you are not the one on trial, she is.

Something I didn't tell you before is that my H was 36 at the time of the A, OW was 18 (she's 20 now). I am a year older than my H. When they first met, she was a delivery person who delivered parts to his business. She went through about 3 other jobs though in the 8 mos. they were together. She was young but "rough" if you know what I mean, very "street-wise". She has been out of her parents home for a couple of years. Her mother told me she hadn't been able to do anything with her for a couple of years now. She fools with drugs, has been in trouble with the law. She's defiant, manipulative and vindictive and will stop at nothing (including breaking the law) to get what she wants. I told my H I feel kinda sorry for someone who will go to such extremes (including blackmailing a person) to hang on to someone, anyone who pays her the least bit of attention, BUT it is hard to feel sorry for someone who will put you through such HELL and just keep on and keep on. Everyone has their limits, ya know. She was relentless in pursuing him (of course I'm not putting all the blame on her. He is a grown man, he could have said no. He has certainly had to bear a large portion of the responsibility). She called him at work after meeting him and asked if he was married, which I think sparked his curiosity. He told her he was. She still continued to flirt, let him know she was available to him, asked him to lunch, asked him to fix a problem with her car. Any excuse she could find to come around, she did. He made the mistake of "crossing the line". Once he did, it was too late. By the time he got to know her better, and she became more and more demanding, he wanted out, but she wouldn't let him go. As I said, she continually threatened to expose the A to me, and he was so sure I would leave him as I had always said I would if he ever became physically involved with someone else. It was a bad situation that he got himself into and couldn't figure out how to get out of. A real nightmare.

Once the A was exposed, he has been nothing but remorseful and willing to do anything it takes to repair the marriage and help me get through this. He told her in my presence on D-day that he loved me, didn't love her and never did, and hoped that someday I could find in my heart to try and forgive him. Well, I can tell you, that did a lot for me toward recovery.

Again, I wish you luck with the court date. Don't stress too much over it. I'm sure it will be okay.

--Almost There

^^Bump! Bump!

Good luck tomorrow! I'll be thinking of you. Let me know how it goes ASAP, okay.

Almost There

Sorry it got postponed. I know you really wanted to get it over with and start to put this behind you. Hang in there, next week will be here soon enough. Try not to worry yourself in the meantime and remember, she's got to be more worried about what will happen than you are - this will prolong the agony for her. When we had our court date, OW came in with dark rings around both eyes like she hadn't slept in weeks. OHHHH!!! Too bad!!! Guess she got what was coming to her with all the nights she kept us awake ringing our da*n telephone and then hanging up.

Almost There

[ April 08, 2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Almost There ]

Hey JG,
Just wanted to wish you luck tomorrow! Let me know how it goes. Thinking of you.

Almost

Court in t-minus 7 1/2 hours. Yeah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

We are hoping that we don't have to wait a long time and that it doesn't drag out all day long.

We'll see.

Gotta go and get in some good quality snuggle time in (and try to get some sleep).

We'll keep everyone current with the trial.

I Love My Pookey. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />My H and I actually sat in the same hallway as OW and we had fun. Mainly laughing at her sorry A**.

On a side note. . . she looked like s**t. I didn't remember what she looked like but now I remember how unattractive that she is. I always see beauty from the inside that radiates the outside. She doesn't have any.<hr /></blockquote>Jazzey,
I could have written this EXACT statement myself about OUR day in court with the OW. We sat two rows in front of her and over just slightly. H and I were both in quite a "jovial" mood (nervousness probably), smiling, joking around. She looked like HE##. Big dark rings around both eyes, like she hadn't slept in weeks. OH WELL, she did it to herself.

Sounds like things went pretty well for you today. Be sure to post and let us know the outcome of the court's decision. Maybe then you can put some closure on this and get on with the task of recovery.

Good luck to you!
Almost

Jazz & WMP,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> for both of U.

Jazz, U rock.

L.

Funny, JG, my H didn't look at the OW in court either. Said he never made eye contact with her, though she and I made eye contact SEVERAL times. Wonder why it is that our H's didn't want to look at them? When we got up to leave the courtroom she just stared at me. I told my H to take a long hard look at her. Was she really worth everything we have been thru? Still he didn't really look at her, not directly anyway. Think he's just ashamed and embarrassed about his part in the whole situation.

The anticipation of our "day in court" was actually much worse than the actual event. I worried and worried about how I would feel that day, how it would all go. Thought I'd be a nervous wreck, angry, upset. When the day actually arrived I was actually much calmer than I expected and was in a relatively good mood. Funny how things turned out. Glad your day went well.

Almost

[ April 17, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Almost There ]

JG,
Thought of you today (the arraignment & all). By the way, there's someone on the Recovery Board by the name of "georgie girl" who's still having harrassment problems with the OW almost a year after D-day. Just thought you'd like to know.

2Hearts

Jazzeygirl,

Please forgive me if someone has mentioned this.

I do not, for one second side with an OP. They are hideous for what they do to BS's (and WS's for that matter).

And any thoughts I have hereafter, do not at all suggest that you should not be careful. I just hope to help you gain some insight (if you haven't already).

Your DD is 4? Do you think that's a coincidence? Perhaps your H had such painful feelings for her loss. He felt good to be able to identify with someone to help them. He has great mercy for people, doesn't he?

Would you not be a little off kilter if you lost your DD? I can imagine that this woman is hurting so badly. Then, to have a relationship with someone who has helped you through such a time of grief, and then to lose that person, after you have lost someone so dear as a child... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Pity her.

The ones I do NOT at all understand are the sister and the two guys. What would they have lost? Probably nothing much at all, except the sister losing a niece...nothing to do with your H.

What a terrible situation you are in. Protect your family, certainly.

Is there any way you can leave town? Is there any way to do that without her being able to find you?

Perhaps you can request from the judge that she get grief support...or mental treatment. She is a wounded soul, and very sick right now.

I wish I had something more to offer you, but that's all that came to mind when I read your initial post.

BTW, Zorweb is a pal of mine and I see she's responded to you. I'm just sure that you've gotten at least some great support from the people here.

Blessings, safety and security to you.

Petals

JG,
Question? How old is the OW is your situation? How old are you and H? As I mentioned before my H was 36 at the time and the psycho OW was 18 (she is 20 now). Something I read in a previous post leads me to believe your H's OW is also very young. Just wondering?

Almost

Jazzey,

I don't get that younger woman thing either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Seems stupid to me. I would think the approval of a more experienced woman (in life, that is), would mean more than that of ignorant belief from a near child. (I was 20 when I got married, but my H was only 3 years older and not involved with anyone.)

And I understood about your two DD's. You did a great job of explaining. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Perhaps I didn't do so well, and certainly some details were vague in my mind.

I am very concerned for your DD also. Yes, she wants you out of the picture (really whacked), but if she realizes there's no chance for her in that arrangement, who knows what she'll do?

I concur with you, that after the initial grief period, she should not be pitied. Life goes on, and she has gathered enough wherewithall to disrupt others' lives in terrible ways. Obviously she's no longer grieving her child, or she wouldn't have the time or energy to do what she's doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I'm so glad that safety is your priority. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know you'll get the distance you need to live in peace!

Petals

I am having problems too with the OW and my H. If you see my post Husband and GF are wackos. I can't get a PFA, because my life wasn't threatened, but I can file harassement charges which I will do. She was told not to come on this property on March 4th. I just can't believe she had the nerve to come in here.

Jazzey Girl,
Any news to report on the harrassment situation?

Almost

Well let me chime in here and throw in a additional warning.

My W came home 'to reconcile' and be at home with the boys. OM played games, 'trapping' my W in the relationship. One thing he did was take his birth certificate and with blood or a red pen wrote 'DEAD' on it, placed it in the window of his apartment so she would see it eventually several days later after her knocking on his door, which had 'blood' on the door knob. All the while was still seeing the OM on a day to day basis, with gaps between visits. Then one evening, like many a night before, she goes and see's the OM and he assaults her, dragging her into his apartment because she was trying to come home 'within the timeframe that she told me she would go "check" on him, to make sure he was still alive'. Bruised and scraped from the dragging, she went to the PD and filed a report. Later the OM was picked up on a traffic stop he had pending court case and warrant for his arrest on the assault. But, he was released and a TRO was put in place. None the less, W and OM continued to see each other, violating the TRO, as he still played his sick games. One month later OM takes W and son captive for 4 hours where he finally slits his writs because his life is falling apart.. W got away with our S and called the PD. He went to jail and court was set 5 months later, where he spent time in jail awaiting trial. He phoned us from jail, mailed letters and she eventually started seeing him in jail. His conviction was reduced to misdemeanors and he got out of jail 5 months later. Within 3 months, my W left me again. She is still suffering from his sick games.

Just a warning Jazzey, your NOT out of the clear yet. Be safe. Reconciling? Great. Be very careful.

Do a search on my 'old' posts and alot of the games the OM played are posted here. Hope this helps you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JazzeyGirl:
We also found out on my H's b-day that we are going to have another precious baby around Nov-Dec time frame (we think). We are so excited and looking forward to it.
<hr /></blockquote>Jazzey are you preggie? Did I read that right?

JG,
Thanks for the update. I've been checking in pretty regular to see if you'd posted anything new. Congrats on the baby news! That's wonderful. Please let me know how the court proceedings turn out. Thinking of you.

Almost

Jazzy,

Congrats!!!

On the OTHER topic...
Have you considered an alarm system and a very large, loud dog?

[ June 05, 2003, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Eleonora ]

Hi Jazzy,

You can go to the court and request why the trial has been postponed. But the truth be told it is probably because one or both of the lawyers has a prior commitment. That is the bulk of the reasons why trials and even pre-trials are postponed. I hate to say it but you will need to be patient and hope for the best. Our justice system can be long and tedious. I am still waiting for my court date for the last round of charges against my ex. IT has been well over a year now. Someone else in my support group took four years to finish her final battle with her abusive ex. Sorry for all the delays.

JazzeyGirl,
Just checking in here for the first time in several days. Thanks for the update. Sounds like things are going pretty well for you and hubby. Just curious, what did OW do to violate her probation so quickly? Do you mean that she contacted you guys within just a few hours of her sentencing? Is that what she did? Wow, what nerve! What an idiot! Of course I can certainly relate. It took a full year, two arrests plus a written summons, several court dates, etc. before OW in our case finally left us alone. I think the probation officer may be right. Moving, changing jobs (if possible) may be just what you guys need to get away from that psycho once and for all. Glad things are going well with your pregnancy - a boy, how exciting! Good luck as you continue to recover from this horrendous experience.

Almost

Hi! The OW that entered our life was a pyschotic bipolar freak. Without us knowing, she stalked my husband and I for 4 months before the affair started (she was setting up the plan to take over my life, I am surprised she didn't actually try to kill me). Then for the next 15 months she stalked me (with out me knowing ) and spied on my husband when they were not together.
When the 15 month affair (I actually call a fling) ended, she continued to stalk me, and threatened my life for 6 months. For thoses 6 months, I never went to town alone. My husband accompanied me everywhere. I got enough evidence, taped phone call from her and many witnesses of her threatening my life. Then she was quiet for 6 months, then it started all over again. That is when I got the restraining order for one year. It was actually quite easy to get. I was hiding in a car when she got the first notice handed to her to appear in court. Boy, was she shocked. She did not come to court.
But from the rumors I hear now, she said to her friends when the restraining order is expired, she is going after me again. Why? Because she says that my house that I OWN should be hers and that I had ruined all of her plans to live a life with my husband. (She is 28 and my husband is 54). I could go on and on about the things this crazy girl wrote in the letters she gave my husband, but I won't. Maybe next time.

Kasi

My 17-year-old son is psychotic (when he is off his meds) and bipolar ... I don't think he's a freak, but he does suffer with an affliction not of his choosing.

You may want to consider the feelings of mentally ill people before you call them a "freak".

Hundreds of people may read your post, and the chances of some of them being bipolar is pretty good.

Take care.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Not to hijack, but:
Thanks, Pepper, again for your kindness and wisdom. The mentally ill need us to protect them, and say what they perhaps can't say at times.

I too have a family member who is bipolar, and he certainly isn't a freak of any sort. I love him dearly, and consider him one of the most brilliant, caring, and loving persons I know. As you said, people suffer from this illness through no fault of their own.

It's a common misperception to think that all mentally ill people are violent or predatory.

Jazzy girl-Sorry for the mess that was brought into your life through the A.

H_P

Jazzey

Thank you so much for taking the time to read about me.

It has been very difficult to say the least. I really dont know how to take him right now, but you are right..just like your H my WH has been terribly depressed for months. Just like you nothing I did made a change. Well enough of me.

Congrats on the impending blessant event!!! How wonderful. I am so happy for you and it sounds as though things are finally getting back to normal. Well anyway please keep us posted and I hope you are feeling well. I will be checking in.
God Bless!!

Lisa

I am responding to those who may not have understand my terminology. I am a nurse and work with mentally ill people, people with dementia and people that are psychotic. The term "psychotic" is frequently used when dealing with mentally ill people. I used the term "freak" only for the OW that tried to screw up my life and is continueing to try to screw up my life. I call this OW a freak because she knows she has a bipolar disorder (I have it in writing with her admitting to being bipolar, plus she has all the symptoms of being bipolar) and refuses to get help, and to be medicated for this condition. She tells everyone she loves to feel aggressive, explosive and to have a violent nature about her because it gives her more power to deal with anything in life. That is why I call her a FREAK.

As for a renewal of a restraining order. I have to wait to get evidence of new attacks from her after the first restraining order has expired. So, starting December 17th, 2003, I have to triple my awareness of looking behind me at all times for a possible surprise attack. What a way to have to live.

Kasi

I am a nurse practitioner.

I understand your terminology perfectly.

I also understand that your hurt and outrage trumped your better judgement, and you made unpleasant judgements about the mental illness of the OW.

It's OK Kasi .... we all say mean things sometimes when we are hurting .... I am just asking you to be aware and to take care .... that some of us posting have loved ones with mental illness, or perhaps have a mental illness ourselves.

No one misunderstood your terminology, believe me, i get it.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Kasi,

I too understand your terminology perfectly well.

I'm a professional person with a graduate degree, and I hear psychiatric diagnoses thrown about on a regular basis in my line of work. I've worked with many young people who are 'psychotic'--as clients. Not all mentally ill people are psychotic, as I'm sure you know.

I objected mainly to your use of the word 'freak' and 'psycho' when describing a mentally ill person.

We all say things a bit roughly at times when we're upset. It's okay! I truly am sorry that this mentally ill woman added chaos to your life. Sad stuff, indeed!

Thanks for understanding,
HP