Please tell me why I shouldn't have an A - Marriage Builders® Forums

Marriage Builders

I usually post on the EN forum, but I thought this would be a more appropriate place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm at the end of my rope. My H has been gone for 10 months (deployed, although not to ME) and our M went downhill waayyyy before that. I feel isolated and alone and find myself fantacising about OM. H has admitted since he's been gone that he has never had an emotional connection with me, and thinks that's why he put me through hell and back before he left. So I'm just supposed to deal with that. He says he loves me now, but is very distant (obviously physically, as well as emotionally) and how am I supposed to believe him? He told me he loved me all the time before and apparently that wasn't true. I am feeling much too cynical for my own good and don't even care anymore. I want so badly to feel wanted and desired and strangers on the street make me feel that way more than my own H. Please tell me why I shouldn't have an A because it's becoming more and more appealing.

Hows about you tell us why you should not have an affair, while a husband that loves you just the way you are is away on deployment and before a stranger on the street gives you nothing more than a gutfull of sorrow and a few other possible nasties....including a possible divorce.

ps I know I know that was a long sentence.

I'm sorry for all your heartache, MG. I've read some of your posts on ENs with interest. I know you've gone through so much.

Can you answer a few questions before I answer your initial question (Why shouldn't you have an A?):

1. Do you still love your H?
2. Do you believe in marriage and the vows?
3. Is there already someone you are thinking of having an A with?

Lv,
Jo

[ April 06, 2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]

There is a strong possibility that an A could end your M. Is that what you want?? If a M is going to fail then it should be because each partner did absolutely everything they could do to make it work. I don't think you can say that at this point. A marriage should end because both partners just can't make it work and not because there is another person involved. If you can honestly say that you did everything humanly possible to save your M and still it wouldn't work then so be it. Get your D, spend sometime working on yourself and your issues. Once you are an emotionally healthy adult who has sorted through their baggage then consider another relationship.

It's time for you and your H to seriously and maturely discuss your relationship and it's problems. The two of you need to be honest and open. You need to tell him how you're feeling and why. Perhaps, discussing your situation with an IC would help you to make your decision. Right now you are trying to run away from the reality of your unhappy life. The OM will not make you happy. Happiness is an internal state that one creates within themselves and shares with others. No one can make you happy. Stop running, face your problems, deal with them responsibly. The OM can't make your life better but, you can!

MG,

The one thing that is working both for you (in reality) and against you (in your mind) is TIME.

In reality, you and your H are very young. Nothing is going to change tomorrow. You need to give it time to work back your feelings for him.

In your mind, this is working against you. You seem to want things to change THIS INSTANT. In the last several weeks you have gone from wanting to move an go to school, to get a boob job, to now having an A. Yes, your H has been gone a long time, but in this time of crisis for our country, it is necessary and can't be helped.

It isn't going to change overnight. I made some serious mistakes in my life when I was 20 that I regret to this day (I'm 34). Don't make an even bigger one without giving your M a chance.

One reason to not have an affair. It is a sin, and it is lust. It is adulterous, and look at what God sees with lust and adultery. Do you love your husband? Do you want to lower yourself to an affair? An affair, is committing sin, and being disrespectful to God? Is that what you want? Do you realize the after effects you will have to deal with the rest of your life? The lies and deceit that you will have to deal with? What about the vows, you said at the altar to your hsuband? There are many reasons to not have an affair. I know that I am not loved by my husband, but still I would not have an affair. Some of us are stronger in our vows than others. My hsuband had an affair, but I know I would never do that. Cause my vows I made at the altar were sincere.

Look at yourself, and ask, what is an affair going to do for me? What is it going to do as far as emotionally, or physically. Physically, you could get AIDS, STD. My husband had a physical affair, and we had to have a order for him to get STD and AID testing. He wouldn't on his own, cause he was going to do it in his time and when. Luckily, he showed negative. But I would still feel more comfortable if he had another test done shortly. Six months after the last one.

Be proud of yourself, don't belittle yourself to the level of an affair. There is so much pain with an affair. Us BS's are suffering so much, do you want to do this to a family? NO!!!! Be spiritually in tact with God. Do the right thing.

1)Because unless you can fixed the relationship you are in , you have no right to go looking for a new one.
2)You will cause pain to your H
3)You will cause pain to your Daughter
4)You will hurt your mom and dad
5)you will hurt your inlaws
6)the OM will be hurt
7) the om family will be hurt
8)you will cause your H so much pain he may never be the same person again.He may even consider suicide
9) you will hate yourself, when its all said and done,if you have any ounce of decency in your bones.
10) what a horrible example to your child

I am the ws, don't do it. I regret it every second I breathe. Not one second goes by that I don't think and regret what I did.You are better then this, MG. You are. I KNOW how it feels when it feels like you are a BIG NOBODY. Some one comes and fills that hole in your heart. Well I fell for it, and now I have a HOLE in my SOUL.I am glad you are hear to talk it out, sometimes I think it helps to just get it off your shoulders.But don't do it, take it in your mind ball it up like paper and toss that crap out . Stay faithful to your vows. If you want a D then get a d when your H comes back, but be faithful to your vows. You want to tell the next man you are with ( chances you marry an OM are slim) Hi I am an adulterer when the going got tough I had an A, you want to have a commited relationship with me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> No you don't. In the best of marriages there is tough times, even before My A my H and I went thru HELL and back.I married at 18, though sans kids I KNOW what its like to be a married young wife. i am sooo proud that I am married to my H after 12 years. We are the longest married couple we know around us and people look up to us. DOn't give up yet, on your, your H or your marriage. You have lasted 10 mos, you can last a few more.

We have faith in you MG!

[ April 06, 2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: euphoria ]

Don't have an affair!!! It is not worth the pain and the hurt of your husband and others. The 1st 5 years of my marriage my H drank and cheated and then went to rehab and was sober for 6 1/2 years, then I had an A and my H went back to drinking and then he started seeing someone last summer and is now living with her. Although he has been back here inbetween my H can't get over me hurting him. Our children are hurting and everyone that knows us.

Thank you all.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />1. Do you still love your H?
2. Do you believe in marriage and the vows?
3. Is there already someone you are thinking of having an A with <hr /></blockquote>1. At times I still love him and feel like I can't imagine my life without him. And at other times I am so repulsed by him and all he's done that I hate him.
2. Yes. But I'm exhausted from pulling all of the weight from day 1.
3. Yes.

I guess that answers most of the questions. I KNOW what the right thing is to do, I guess I'm just sick and tired of feeling sick and tired and I'm getting desperate. I've tried going back to school, and did for a semester. I haven't been able to get a job because I haven't been in one place long enough. I do get out on my own, I go to the gym, I run about 10 errands a day, my house is immaculate, so it's not like I'm just sitting at home feeling pathetic all the time. This loneliness is just overwhelming and it was the same way when H was here. Maybe we should get a D. I don't know what to do. Maybe it does seem like I am rushing things and wanting them all to change "this instant" but things have been bad for a good year and a half, and that may not seem like very long to a lot of you, but it's felt like a lifetime. And I feel like I'm suffocating under the weight of it all since I'm having to deal with it all by myself.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. I didn't mean to start an argument or anything, I just wanted to get it out there. I guess for awhile I've been acting like I would never have an A and it wouldn't happen to me, and I've been rather shocked at how often it crosses my mind now.

You should not have an affair because of all of the pain that you will cause to those you are most close to.

Most importantly, you will cause the most pain to yourself.

Please do not do this. Talk to a girl friend, your parents, or anyone but another man about your emptiness that you are feeling. Do not involve another man in your marital troubles. He will become your OM.

marriedgirl

Take a long hard look at the post by those that have had affairs.

The pain they cause ALL parties is tremendous...so whatever upside you see in the "here and now" pales in comparison to the downside after the affair.

Here's a quick one to look at:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=010167

You are all right. Even what I'm typing seems ridiculous. Reading back on it, it sounds so incredibly irrational. Of course I shouldn't have an affair. Of course it will just cause more pain. Of course I should be avoiding all other men. Then why can't I stop myself? Why does the life I'm living feel so dull and lifeless and depressing that when another man looks at me a certain way- in a way I'm not sure my H has ever looked at me, it makes me not even care what happens? Why do I want *that* more than I want to avoid causing pain? I feel disgusting and horrible and I'm sure that's how I sound. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm not sure how to look at the positive and "find myself" or whatever. I have this driving need to be wanted. And it feels as pathetic as it sounds.

[ April 06, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: marriedgirl ]

Not pathetic at all, MG. Very much real to you, I'm sure. Your pain is no less valid than the pain of a BS when betrayed.

I really do think I understand. But I think you may not remember that when you and H were courting he DID look at you in such a way. It's just been a very long time. Think about it.

I'm not saying fixing your marriage isn't going to be work, it def is. And even if you're not willing to do that, having an affair is not an answer for filling the void you're feeling.

Lv,
Jo

You are human...you have biological urges...it's normal to be wanted.

The thing is, you have to control yourself. Men may look at you in a certain way. So what??? My wife wouldn't give me the time of day during her affair and during this time, it seemed as other women would stare longingly at me. That doesn't give any right to have an affair. It was difficult to resist the temptation to start something, but now I can live every day without guilt because I did not do anything.

Your husband has looked at you that way...it's just been a while since he has seen you. Just imagine what that look on his face will be when he sees you when he comes home. I will bet that every day he is away he is thinking of you.

The only way, at this point, to feel closer to your H is to talk to him! Do whatever it takes. Phone him, email him, hand write a long heartfelt letter, do whatever it takes! Tell him how you are feeling. Tell him you feel lonely, frustrated, isolated, bored, dull.... Tell him everything in a non-threatening way. Even if he's not sure how to respond in the beginning, give him a chance to "absorb" what you've said and let him respond in kind. If nothing else you will feel relieved at having unburdened yourself and shared your feelings of weakness with him. Is that not what a H/W is...a soft place to fall?

I'll assume from your posts that you are a military spouse, so am I. I know what it's like to move around, I know what it's like to feel lonely, I know what it's like to try to go back to school. I know what it's like to be alone for months on end with small kids and no support. I know what it's like to start a career, get seniority and have to move (I'm a nurse).

I'm not trying to patronize you here but, you are very young. M is one of those things that forces us to grow-up and behave responsibly. Being M is hard work, being married to someone in the services is harder work!! Give yourself credit for the strength you have shown so far...10 months is a very long time.

I'm going to go out on a limb here...it sounds to me like you may be getting a little burnt out. You really, really need to reach out to ppl in your community that can help. MB is great but, it's "cyber-support" and it doesn't help when you need a hug or a shoulder to cry on...when you need interaction with "real" ppl. Maybe, that is what the OM is offering you...real interaction, he alleviates the boredom and dullness.

I understand the need to feel wanted, desired, attractive, witty etc., etc.. I think everyone here at MB does. We all want to feel cherished and valued; that's normal. What's not normal is doing something destructive to get those feelings. An A is a temporary fix, an illusion. The feelings aren't real, they are a fantasy.

Do the emotioanlly healthy thing by talking to your H and reaching out to ppl who can help.

Thank you so much mgm- that is exactly how I feel. And I want to be a nurse too! I've completed a little over 1 year already but since nursing school is so incredibly rigorous and demanding, it's really hard to cut out a chunk of time to go back and finish, esp. when things are as crazy as they've been lately, AND with a little one. So I applaud you.
I AM getting burnt out. I have been for a long time. I really have tried to be strong (what I express here is not how I act in "real life" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) but it's getting harder and harder. I hate sounding whiny, so I will stop there. And you're right- OM is a distraction. I'm not looking for a serious relationship with someone else, if I'm "looking" for anything, it's just a break I guess. And I know that makes me a whimp and for that I am ashamed. But I hate being young and feeling so GD old. I love the way he looks at me and touches me (nothing has happened, just very casual touches) and talks to me. Like he finds me... I don't know. But I guess that's what M is all about- learning to live with someone who couldn't care less about you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> No, my H says he loves me and desires me, it's just hard to believe because he's a prolific liar, and that's all he's done in the past.
I don't know how to sort through all of these feelings!! Anyway, thank you for being so kind in your response. I truly appreciate it.

I agree with everything mgm said to you. The main thing is to communicate with your H. Give the guy a chance to, not just say he loves you, but, prove he loves you.

Even if he cannot prove this to you, do not have an affair. Divorce before you go that route. Unless you have been a BS you have no idea the hell you will put on those you love by having an A.

Please, stop ALL contact with the OM. Communicate with your husband all that you are feeling. Give him the chance to be what you need. If he cannot or will not...end the marriage before you become an adultress.

jd

Dear Marriedgirl,

I have beenliurkingon this board for quite a while. i am looking at your sitch from the other side. From my handle you may be able to see that I'm an Australian.

I am just back from active ops after being wounded and have discovered that my wife has been having an affair with a guy who pays guitar in a reggae band.

I'm just too busted up to go on, but for pitty's sake think again.

Digger.

Digger,

Were you wounded in action in the middle east? Not that it really matters, just curious.

jd

[ April 07, 2003, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]

Yep,

sorryyy bout the keyboard skillsss got a few digits m,issing

Digger

MG you are getting great adivce!

What the OM is giving you is very intoxicating. I know.Its not been that long since my A, I remember the way OM looked at me, the casual touching I did ( very casual it was infront of my H). Its been much longer for me then you , LOL since I had that kind of Male attention from anyone since my H.

you said before what you wrote was ridiculous. Don't ever demean your feelings.It;s not/ I wish I had came here when i was still just having an EA, my life would be different now.

Throw yourself into your family. Get involved with the key volunteers or volunteer your time with Navy relief or the red cross. You need to get out . DO NOT see Om again. You need to tell him to not come around. Tell him its not appropreate, you are a married woman, he should hang out with single women, not a DET widow.

MG,
I happened to read your locked threads from EN last week, and, given some of the details there, you aren't taking care to prevent an affair. You met a MB guy for lunch, and obviously he is way complimentary to you, enough that he got a moderator admonishment.

Maybe he isn't the OM, but whoever the OM is, as a married woman, you are spending to much time talking with him, if he feels free enough to touch you, even casually.

Do you know anything about body language? Touching another person during conversation is a way of creating intimacy and bonding...so this guy is already crossing boundaries.

My H was in Desert Storm, gone for 7 months while I was home with 2 preschoolers, I understand your loneliness and the temptations that come along, but your husband is off doing his job. Is it so much for you just to remain faithful until he returns and you can truly evaluate your marriage?

I've gathered you don't like being told that you are young, but...I have a beautiful daughter 3 years younger than you and see her creating strict boundaries with males to safeguard her options for her future.

Your actions are in your control.

And, even if your H is making crummy decisions, your honor belongs to you.

Thank you all for the advice. Digger, I'm so sorry about what happened to you. I wish you the best of luck.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> you aren't taking care to prevent an affair. You met a MB guy for lunch...
Maybe he isn't the OM, but whoever the OM is, as a married woman, you are spending to much time talking with him, if he feels free enough to touch you, even casually. <hr /></blockquote>Obviously I'm not doing the right thing. I don't think that was ever in question. And no, the man from MB is not the OM. Not in the least. Actually, I technically only spent about a week with him. He lives out of state and recently was in town where I saw him again. I know I'm not setting proper boundaries. I guess I don't have the motivation to. My M was not perfect when my H left for overseas. It's not as if we were very close and I'm just getting sick of waiting so I'll go find someone else. It's not like that at all. I know marital circumstances- however bad they may be, do not give anyone the right to have an affair. But it WASN'T good, not even close, and I'm NOT just getting impatient and unable to control myself. I can wait for as long as it takes for him to come back as long as I have motivation to. I guess that's why I started this thread, because I've lost all motivation to do the right thing. I have a lot of hatred and resentment toward my H at what he has put me through (there are details I have not ever mentioned here) and I don't know how to deal with that. 30% of me wants our M to work out, the other 70% just wants, needs relief. I have been the only one who cares enough about out M to put any work into saving it, even though he's been the one who did all of the destorying for so long. And now I don't care anymore. So where does that leave us? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

[ April 07, 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: marriedgirl ]

mg,

Follow the Dr. Harley mantra and tell your H of these feelings for OM. Radical honesty is the key here.

Take care.
-Luki

marriedgirl,

for one look at your screen name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Three months ago I was in your same situation. My lovely wife was distant and I felt like I didn't matter at all to her. Her contact with OM would stop and start. I, as someone put it earlier, was burnt out and starved for attention, affection and contact with another person. I had a PA. Felt good for a little while until that OH-SH#T moment hit. MLW suspected after she found the cellphone bill she asked but by that time it had been over with so like a scared little boy hiding from the truth I lied. Well eventually it cam back around and bit me in the butt. When MLW found out, all the efforts over the last 9 months I had made to strengthen our marriage suddenly meant absolutely nothing. She questioned the sincerity of my entire person and every positive change I had made to better myself as a person. I know that they are real but it might be too late for her to buy that.

MLW had struggled with NC with OM and her commitment to our marriage. She no longer has to struggle, because my A and me lying about it has given her the perfect opportunity to go.

The affair was very temporary fix for my lonliness. The guilt and remorse far outweighs any pleasure I derived from it. I consider this to be the worst mistake I have ever made and I got some whoppers out there.

Don't do it.

[ April 07, 2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: d_rose ]

Marriedgirl,

You sound EXACTLY like my wife. if you can go back and look at my previous posts over the last 9 months, you can see what happened. I am the BS. my wife had an affair that just recently ended. it started while I was on deployment right after 9/11.

Our marriage (ten years this week) was marked by two periods. the first 5-6 years were GREAT We were close, having our kids...building our life. Over the last four to five years, though, many things began to intercede into our lives. As I said, you can go back and read my story. but what I want to say is that over this time, I began to pull away from my wife, meeting her needs less and less. Over time, then she began to pull back also and my needs stopped being met. The downward spiral began!

By the time I left for Bosnia in September 2001, we were in REAL trouble. my wife was just starting nursing school (she finishes in three weeks!), we had financial troubles, she had the three kids to take care of AND I was leaving for 7 months. Not only had she begun to feel lonely while I was there, when I left...she felt abandoned. In stepped the OM. Even today, as my wife and I are just starting recovery, she will tell you several things about the beginning of the affair. first, she says that at the time...she was done with the marriage. Or so she THOUGHT. This was a rationalization she made because she was so incredibly lonely, confused and completely beaten down by school, finances, kids, me in a combat zone, etc. So, when OM started showing attention to her in the gym, it was like water near a dry sponge. the fog came rolling in and her fantasy land began.

She will tell you at first, it was exciting. For the first time in a few years, she felt like someone wanted her, was paying attention to her. He could talk to her, be with her...and take the stresses away of her marriage and life. As I told her (and the OM when I talked to him), I created the OM. If it wasnt for me and my actions prior to leaving on deployment, the OM would have NEVER had a chance! But being gone, I had no way to fight for my marriage, no way to meet many of her needs, even if I wanted to. And this guy took advantage of the situation.

In the end, my wife is now understanding that the OM was only being selfish, just as she was being selfish. The OM could care less about her, because he was willing for her to have her family destroyed, her husband possibly destroyed, her kids destroyed..all to get her into his life. She was selfish because she was willing to give up EVERYTHING...even the possibility of losing her children...in order to get these needs met. this goes to show us how powerful what the Harleys teach her really is. If those top 5 needs are not met consistently, we will get to the breaking point (and each persons breaking point is different), where we are willing to do ANYTHING to stop the pain. Think of those people that jumped out of the World Trade Center. they faced a burning fire and chose to escape that pain by jumping out at 100 stories up. Not rational thinking to be jumping out of a 100 story building, but when faced with an inferno and that much pain...what options did they have? You will do ANYTHING to stop the pain.

Unlike these people, you have options. Like these people, you can choose to "jump" into another relationship. And at first, it can be very exhilerating. the winds rushing through your hair...your hearts pumping. But understand, as my wife now understands...the bottom will come up! And when it does, the pain from that landing will pale in comparison to what you are feeling now. And ask any WS on this site...and BS...that pain (scars) will always be there.

You now have a choice my wife no longer has. She has said over and over during our recovery that she wishes she could go back to August 2001. She said her choices would be so different. But there are no time machines. Once you do this MG, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle. One thing I am sure of is that even though I am confident that my wife and I are going to have our marriage back better than ever, we both are understanding that we will forever be in recovery. We will never be able to forget. It will lessen. But it will never go away.

One note about the OM. My wife was pursuing a serious relationship. She really "believed" at the time that this guy would replace me…and probably be her new husband. By your posts, you say that you are looking for nothing serious. If this is true, then this is where you are different from my wife's situation. But that may not always be. Once sucked in by the fantasy that the OM is providing for you, you will fall in love. And then you will forever be an "addict." This what you want? Listen to the other WSs on here. I just recently got my wife a screen name on here and I hope she will post to you. And she will tell you what she knows about OPs. So, if in the end, you end up getting serious with this guy, or even if you don't…is this the kind of guy you would want in your life? Is this the kind of guy you want in your child's life? What kind of example are you setting for your daughter? I want you to know that our daughter will forever be affected (she is 8 now) by the actions of my wife over the last two years. You want that for your daughter? What kind of man is the OM? He is an adulterer…or soon to be one. He places no value on marriage, vows, family…ESPECIALLY your family! And you know what? No matter how nice he talks and converses with you…he really has no respect for YOU. What kind of woman, in his eyes, would be willing to give up everything she has and be with him? Some of my best MB friends on here are WSs. I do not mean to demean them here. But I think they will tell you the exact same thing…that the OP could care less about your honor, your dignity, your family…your life. They want what they want…they give up nothing…you give up everything. And remember, if they'll do it WITH you…they'll do it TO you.

The OM is not an option or way out of your problems. With your husband gone on deployment, it will only allow you to live in a fantasy world until he returns. And then, not only will your old problems be there, but you will have a whole host of new ones. And these new problems will make the old ones seem like nothing. My wife even said in the middle of the affair that the worst days of the marriage were BETTER than what she was living once I came home and she moved out to be with OM.

I am not minimizing your feelings, nor am I saying that you should just sit back and let your husband treat you badly. I KNOW where you are. I am fully aware of what my wife went through that led her to "jump." The problem was…at the time…even though she was telling me…I had no idea what I was REALLY doing to her. I do now. But we had to find out the hard way. And we will pay the rest of our lives.

So, in the end, you will either be with OM in fantasyland and have a "fun" time…only to be thrust back into your marriage and you will eventually pay for the "fun." Or that relationship will get serious, you will pay also for this…maybe even lose your husband for good…and in the end, you most likely will not be with the OM (look at the stats!). Or there is another way.

You are close to an affair. I dare say, you already have had an EA. Since your husband is gone, he now has no way to fight that…so anyone that walks in will continue to pull you down that road. To insert deposits in your love bank. You must close the bank to ALL males NOW! Don't talk to them. Put up boundaries to all males (except your Dad…he is probably the guy who can really help you right now!). You are in such a weakened position that you have to cut out all personal contact with any male, on any level except professional. Then, when your husband gets home, you need to tell him EVERYTHING. Tell him how close you have been to an affair…to leaving him. Tell him how miserable you are. Be radically honest. Put the ball in his court. One thing is for sure with males…once they know their gals are hooking up with someone else, or thinking about it…they seem to put there self into a 180 degree turn VERY quickly. It may just be this news that will cause him to really see what he is doing.

You think you are angry and frustrated with him now? Wait until after the affair, when you are trying to repair the marriage and are looking at and blaming your husband for putting you in such a position that you blew everything…your marriage, your family, your friends, your self-respect, your morals…everything. Look ,if you bring him on here, I'll even talk to him. Because I tell you…if my wife had told me before they started hooking up that she was thinking about this and we had a true heart-to-heart talk, you had better believe I would have woke up. I wish she had done that for me. I would have changed as I have now…and we would not have the permanent damage from the affair.

I want to post more here, but I will wait for your response and questions. You are where my wife was in September 2001. You DO NOT WANT TO BE where she is in April 2003! She would tell you that. Give your husband a chance. Wait…then talk to him. Give it time. You are very young. There is plenty of time to find another man if this doesn't work out. A man with some honor and character, unlike your OM. If you give it your all, set up boundaries, and then put it in his ball court when he returns…and it still doesn't work out…then you can walk away with your head high. If you don't, then you may find it difficult to really put your head high again.

In His arms.

Wow Mortarman, thank you so much for responding. Our situations sound almost identical, except I haven't gone through with it... yet, I guess.

First of all, let me start with why I am afraid to tell my H about what is going on. He knows that I am having a hard time. He knows that I was VERY close to leaving him before he left. We have talked about what happened before he left and how it has made me feel MANY, MANY times. The way he chooses to deal with that is to not think about it. He "pretends" nothing is wrong and goes about as if nothing has happened and we are the happiest family in the world. I'm not sure if he knows how close I am to an A. I'm sure it crosses his mind, you know, me being alone here for so long, but he always says how much he trusts me and he is not the jealous type AT ALL. I'm not sure if he just doesn't care what I do (b/c it sure seems like he doesn't!!) or if he just doesn't think about it. This is where it gets complicated... he almost "encourages" me to hang out with other men because it gives him "permission" to continue on in the life he was in before (acting like a bachelor). For example, he will say "I have no right to tell you what to do after all I've put you through, so go ahead and do whatever you want" or "why don't you go hang out with the neighbor downstairs, you're both lonely" (he was a single dad- this was when we lived in our old apt.) or saying he didn't mind at all when my ex-BF would call, not caring when I would tell him his friends would come over to visit me ater he left, etc. The reason I am afraid to tell him what is going on now is because I feel stupid for falling for his "trick" of getting me to somehow form a relationship with an OM so he can have free reign to do whatever he wants. He is a VERY revengeful person, and unless I actually do have an A, I think it would only cause more harm than good to tell him how close I am. In his mind, from what his past behavior tells me, he would think "Oh, OK, she's gonna have an A, well I'll take $1,000 out of our account and hire a couple prostitutes. Since she's having fun, I will too." That may sound incredibly stupid, but I AM afraid of how he would react to that knowledge, and I really don't think it would be in a healthy way. I think he's just looking for an opportunity to go completely crazy and the only thing that's keeping him from that is his guilt in thinking I'm this saintly wife sitting at home and waiting for him. So I am afraid that if I don't go through with an A, but tell him I'm close to one, he WILL go through with it, so either way, we're screwed. If I want to try to make this work, I have to shut up and keep him in his fantasyland.

About the OM, there is no way that I could form a lasting R with him for many reasons. There is only physical attraction there and while he is a sweetheart, he is too immature to take on a wife and daughter (although he says all the time that we're gonna get married someday, he'll take over the role of "daddy" for my dd, etc.) he is a partier, he dates a lot of different women, etc. He tells me he wants to settle down, but I don't believe any man ever wants to settle down with one woman (no offense to anyone, that's just my cynicism coming out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). So why do I want to get involved with a guy like that? One, I have ties to him for other reasons, that I am too nervous to mention here in case someone is lurking, so he's not just someone I met in a club one night. No we have not had an A, so it's not that. He reminds me of the guy I lost my virginity to (very smooth, the whole "tough guy" thing) and for that reason, he brings out the "bad" part of me, I am very attracted to him and have always been attracted to guys like that (which yes, has only gotten me into trouble), he tells me what I want to hear, he is a total sweetheart (I have known his family for a long time and I see how interacts with his sisters) etc. So I guess that is what draws me to him.

I guess what sums all of this up is when you wrote:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />If those top 5 needs are not met consistently, we will get to the breaking point (and each persons breaking point is different), where we are willing to do ANYTHING to stop the pain. <hr /></blockquote>And that is exactly where I am. Not only has my H not EVER met even ONE of my EN's (excpet out of complete and utter deceit) but he does things on top of that that cause me TREMENDOUS pain. And I'm over it. Yes, he has the capacity of being a wonderful man. But he LIES. He lied SO MUCH before he left that I have no idea who he *really* is or when he's telling me the truth, if ever. I have no idea where he is in this M, what he's committed to doing, what he needs me to do, how he feels about me, etc. He lies more than anyone I have ever known in my life and frankly, he scares me. I don't know how I feel about him. I'm confused, I'm sick of feeling unsure and miserable all the time, I'm sick of bending over backwards to try to get him to not F up by being the most amazing, wonderful, sexy wife, I'm sick of doing all of the work in this GD marriage and getting nothing in return, I'm sick of my H acting like a 13 year old. I'm tired.

I don't know what I want. Actually, what I really want is for my H to be the person (I thought) he was before his "other life" came out but I'm not sure he will ever be that person, or if he ever was. I'm scared to let go because I love that person so much, but I don't know where to find him anymore. And I think I will go the rest of my life holding onto that fantasy. He is so good at being amazing and having it be a big facade. And I'm scared of being deceived again.

So that's where I'm at. Sorry to go on so long. I really appreciate you sharing part of your story with me, and I'll try to go back and read through the rest of it. Good luck to you and I'm glad things are going better.

Hey MG...glad we could do this. you are right. After reading this latest post, things are waaayyyy too similar. So, let me respond to what you posted.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> First of all, let me start with why I am afraid to tell my H about what is going on. He knows that I am having a hard time. He knows that I was VERY close to leaving him before he left. We have talked about what happened before he left and how it has made me feel MANY, MANY times. <hr /></blockquote>I do not know how many discussions we had in the two years prior to the A where she tried to tell me what was going on, that she was lonely, that she didn't want things to continue like they were.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The way he chooses to deal with that is to not think about it. He "pretends" nothing is wrong and goes about as if nothing has happened and we are the happiest family in the world. <hr /></blockquote>Exactly what I did!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm not sure if he knows how close I am to an A. <hr /></blockquote>Oh, believe me…he does! At least subconsciously. See your posts below.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm sure it crosses his mind, you know, me being alone here for so long, but he always says how much he trusts me and he is not the jealous type AT ALL. <hr /></blockquote>Trusted my wife explicitly too. Which led to me taking her for granted!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm not sure if he just doesn't care what I do (b/c it sure seems like he doesn't!!) or if he just doesn't think about it. <hr /></blockquote>I think there is a third option here. He doesn't WANT to think about it. Too many insecurities, probably. Better not to look under that rock…might be something that can bite him. Just pretend everything's okay, and ignore it. It'll go away.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> This is where it gets complicated... he almost "encourages" me to hang out with other men because it gives him "permission" to continue on in the life he was in before (acting like a bachelor). <hr /></blockquote>How does he act? Has he had an affair? May signal why he is pushing you on other men. Or, if he hasn't had an affair, he may be pushing you to have these "friendships" because he trusts you not to go "too far," and he can feel better about not being there because he knows some of your needs are being met. I sort of did this. I never minded her "platonic" relationships with other men. Believe me, no more of those!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> For example, he will say "I have no right to tell you what to do after all I've put you through, so go ahead and do whatever you want" or "why don't you go hang out with the neighbor downstairs, you're both lonely" (he was a single dad- this was when we lived in our old apt.) or saying he didn't mind at all when my ex-BF would call, not caring when I would tell him his friends would come over to visit me after he left, etc. <hr /></blockquote>Again, see above. Either he has or is seeing someone, or more likely, he trusts you not to cross the line into a PA, and he wants to make sure that he doesn't take away anything that might keep you where you are at. He may even feel guilty for not being there, and thus act like the good guy by saying "Hey, I'm not jealous. I trust you. Hang out with anyone you want." While deep down, it is killing him. Don't know which of these fit. You'll have to determine it for yourself.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The reason I am afraid to tell him what is going on now is because I feel stupid for falling for his "trick" of getting me to somehow form a relationship with an OM so he can have free reign to do whatever he wants. <hr /></blockquote>Could be. But you may also be surprised. He may feel guilty for being away and how he has treated you. So maybe by you going into another man's arms, he can then not feel guilty, but instead mad at you. Thus he can transfer his guilt in where your relationship is, to your guilt for destroying the relationship by having an affair.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He is a VERY revengeful person, and unless I actually do have an A, I think it would only cause more harm than good to tell him how close I am. In his mind, from what his past behavior tells me, he would think "Oh, OK, she's gonna have an A, well I'll take $1,000 out of our account and hire a couple prostitutes. Since she's having fun, I will too." That may sound incredibly stupid, but I AM afraid of how he would react to that knowledge, and I really don't think it would be in a healthy way. <hr /></blockquote>Okay…this is one big reason why not to have an affair. You may think it wont come out…it will. He WILL eventually find out. How revengeful is he gonna be then? I think that if, by the time he gets home, that you have worked on yourself, and not gotten into an affair, that you then tell him that you were close awhile ago…that you need for him to sit down, go to counseling, do whatever, so you don't get to that point again. That way he cant say you had one and then seek his own. He cant say you are looking for one, and then seek his own. The only thing he can see is that you were close, that you backed off and waited for him in order to save the marriage. That his wife, his "pot pie" might have ended up on someone else's plate. And there's a good chance if he doesn't sit down and work on this, it just might!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I think he's just looking for an opportunity to go completely crazy and the only thing that's keeping him from that is his guilt in thinking I'm this saintly wife sitting at home and waiting for him. <hr /></blockquote>Which gets me to my point why he pushes you at these "friendships." Don't let him do this. Mostly for yourself!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> So I am afraid that if I don't go through with an A, but tell him I'm close to one, he WILL go through with it, so either way, we're screwed. <hr /></blockquote>Not necessarily. But you are screwed if you don't get him to change his ways and start meeting your ENs.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> If I want to try to make this work, I have to shut up and keep him in his fantasyland. <hr /></blockquote>No, no, no. No one needs to be in a fantasyland. You both need a dose of reality…and pretty quick before fantasyland on both your parts turns into a nightmare.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> About the OM, there is no way that I could form a lasting R with him for many reasons. There is only physical attraction there and while he is a sweetheart, he is too immature to take on a wife and daughter (although he says all the time that we're gonna get married someday, he'll take over the role of "daddy" for my dd, etc.) he is a partier, he dates a lot of different women, etc. He tells me he wants to settle down, but I don't believe any man ever wants to settle down with one woman (no offense to anyone, that's just my cynicism coming out ). <hr /></blockquote>Look at what you wrote here. You are an adult, MG. This guy is a boy. You want a man or a boy? Physical attraction? Where will that get you? Any animal can have sex. You have to be kidding if you think that these physical things are going to make you feel better about yourself and your situation. What would you tell your daughter?

So, why do you want to get involved with this guy? Oh, you asked this question below.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> So why do I want to get involved with a guy like that? One, I have ties to him for other reasons, that I am too nervous to mention here in case someone is lurking, so he's not just someone I met in a club one night. <hr /></blockquote>Well, it really doesn't matter what the reason is, how much history you have, or what he can do for you. He is a little boy. You are a grown, married woman with a child. You cannot act like you are 16 anymore, even if he wants to. Sorry to be so harsh there, but that is one comment our mutual friends made about my 32 year old wife during this affair. They said she was acting like an 18 year old school girl with a crush. That's fine for a teenager. For an adult, it is very destructive. And I think you will find…what you found exciting at 16 will not have the same lure at your age. This guy is a boy. He is showing you no respect, nor your child, nor the father of your child. He wants to use you, and then move on. And sounds like you want the same. You willing to risk everything for that?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> No we have not had an A, so it's not that. <hr /></blockquote>If you havent had a physical affair, you almost assuredly have had an emotional affair.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He reminds me of the guy I lost my virginity to (very smooth, the whole "tough guy" thing) and for that reason, he brings out the "bad" part of me, I am very attracted to him and have always been attracted to guys like that (which yes, has only gotten me into trouble), he tells me what I want to hear, he is a total sweetheart (I have known his family for a long time and I see how interacts with his sisters) etc. So I guess that is what draws me to him. <hr /></blockquote>Believe me, I KNOW the bad guy role. Look, have I been attracted to other women during my 10 year marriage? Sure. And sometimes, it has been very intoxicating. More than once, I know all it would have taken was a few more words, and I could have had a wild time with this person. Okay, a wild time. Then what? Don't you see? Hormones only take you to the point of disaster, if they are not controlled by your head. Right now, you are not thinking.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I guess what sums all of this up is when you wrote:

quote:

If those top 5 needs are not met consistently, we will get to the breaking point (and
each persons breaking point is different), where we are willing to do ANYTHING to stop
the pain.

And that is exactly where I am. Not only has my H not EVER met even ONE of my EN's (excpet out of complete and utter deceit) but he does things on top of that that cause me TREMENDOUS pain. <hr /></blockquote>Very good. Not that he hasn't met your ENs. But that you recognize where it is that he needs to improve. This will come in handy later. By the way, have you figured out what your top 5 needs are?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> And I'm over it. <hr /></blockquote>You think you are over it. But your posts below show that you are not My wife said she was "over with the marriage." And then started the affair. Over a year later, the OM was asking her why she hadnt gotten divorced, that he continued to be in limbo. She was with him, but just couldn't go all the way and divorce. Why? She had said she was done with the marriage. And if you read, after I found out about the affair, things got MUCH worse. So, why didn't she go forward with the divorce? The answer is…she wasn't over me or her marriage. Neither are you. Stop fooling yourself because once you make rationalizations and lead yourself into the fog, the pain you will have to endure in order to get out of the fog will be huge. Ask my wife!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Yes, he has the capacity of being a wonderful man. <hr /></blockquote>Of course…this is why you married him. He still exists. But it will probably have to be you who leads him back.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> But he LIES. He lied SO MUCH before he left that I have no idea who he *really* is or when he's telling me the truth, if ever. <hr /></blockquote>Probably trying to protect himself. Not an excuse, of course. But trust is not the central part of marriage…it is commitment.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I have no idea where he is in this M, what he's committed to doing, what he needs me to do, how he feels about me, etc. <hr /></blockquote>This is why you shouldn't have an affair. YOU DON'T KNOW! Until you do know, and seek a divorce, and become a single woman again, anything you do now will only destroy what might still be there.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He lies more than anyone I have ever known in my life and frankly, he scares me. <hr /></blockquote>Scares you how? Is there physical abuse, emotional abuse? If so, seek counseling. Get him to seek counseling. It doesn't have to mean the end of the marriage.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I don't know how I feel about him. <hr /></blockquote>again, this is the biggest reason NOT to get involved in an affair or throw away your marriage.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm confused, I'm sick of feeling unsure and miserable all the time, I'm sick of bending over backwards to try to get him to not F up by being the most amazing, wonderful, sexy wife, I'm sick of doing all of the work in this GD marriage and getting nothing in return, I'm sick of my H acting like a 13 year old. I'm tired. <hr /></blockquote>Of course. And no one says you should have to stay in a marriage like that. But just because he is acting like a 13 year old doesn't give you license to act like a 16 year old. You are a married woman. With a daughter. Act like one. And take charge of your marriage. If your daughter was messing up, would you leave her? Would you just go find another little girl to be your daughter? Of course not. She is your blood, your family. You love her, even though you may not always like her and she may do some awful things to you (especially when she gets to be a teenager). Your husband is your blood, your family. Treat him as such. He is out of bounds and not treating you right. Don't put up with it. But just like your daughter is still your family, your husband is also. So, don't abandon your family member for someone new. Help him. I wish my wife had before all of this. She was tired too...had no more left. But the effort she would of made then would have been much less than what she has to make now, and really forever.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I don't know what I want. <hr /></blockquote>Yes you do. See your next post.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Actually, what I really want is for my H to be the person (I thought) he was before his "other life" came out but I'm not sure he will ever be that person, or if he ever was. <hr /></blockquote>NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE! You will never get him, just like my wife will probably never get back all that she had, if you cross that line. You want that husband back? Is it worth it to save your marriage? Steve harley asked my wife two questions when we first started counseling with him, right in the middle of the affair. First, he asked "do you believe that it is the best thing for her children if a mother is in love with their father?" Of course, she said yes. He then asked "do you believe it is the best thing for your children for you to be in love with Mortarman?" She was floored. She told me the other day that those questions weighed on her thru the whole affair. You want the husband you fell in love with? You want your life right, without all of the complications of affairs, divorce, step-parents, etc? You need to think now…before it is too late. You say you are tired and don't have the energy to make the effort But guess what? That affair is gonna take a lot of energy and you will still be married to your husband. How much energy is it gonna take to maintain two relationships? Even if divorced, you still have to maintain a relationship with your husband, the father of your child. You will complicate your life unbelievably.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm scared to let go because I love that person so much, but I don't know where to find him anymore. And I think I will go the rest of my life holding onto that fantasy. He is so good at being amazing and having it be a big facade. And I'm scared of being deceived again. <hr /></blockquote>Guess what? The reason I acted the way I did was I was scared. Your husband is probably scared deep down. And most guys, especially military types, are not allowed to admit fear. This is where you must search for him. In his fears.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> So that's where I'm at. Sorry to go on so long. I really appreciate you sharing part of your story with me, and I'll try to go back and read through the rest of it. Good luck to you and I'm glad things are going better. <hr /></blockquote>Thanks. And we are doing better. But we are the walking wounded. DO NOT FOLLOW US. Learn from us. My wife is 32 and I am almost 40. You are young. You have plenty of time to figure this out. Shoot…from what I hear, women don't hit their sexual prime until their 30s. So stop letting physical attraction warp your thinking. You are a married woman. You belong to your husband, just as he belongs to you. You have no right to give away to another man what belongs to your husband. If you want to act single, then get single. But I have the sneaky suspicion that this isnt what you want. That this wanting an affair is a cry for help. But you know what you really want. And many here can help you figure out how to get it. But if you don't turn and run from OM…and NEVER go near him again…you will have very little chance to get back what you are about to lose. And if not for yourself, look in your child's eyes and say that what you are doing is the right thing. Her whole life will depend on what you do.

In His arms.

[ April 07, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]

Question MG,

Is the OM in your life your husbands brother? This is really the only logical reason I can see for the way you talk about him. Doesn't matter. Break off
all contact with the OM.

jd

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I've lost all motivation to do the right thing <hr /></blockquote>Can you project yourself into the future, say five years...looking back at now more objectively, what would make you proud of yourself?
What would make you cringe?
What actions would you regret?
What would make you feel honorable and right?

Do words like "honor, pride, commitment right" have meaning for you?

I'm not criticizing, I'm asking you to think, and hopefully to find the motivation to hold steadfast.

As my military H has explained to me, with your husband deployed, right now you don't have the usual option of choosing divorce before unfaithfulness, as no legal action can be taken against him because of the deployment.

Mortarman,
Again, thank you. I had tears in my eyes the entire time I was reading your post. I'm sure I will read it 100 times more. Thank you so much.

JD-
No, he is not my H's brother. I'm not *that* heartless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

marriedgirl,..

nothing in your situation is going to change one iota...until you quit projecting so much outside of you....and turn the issue back around to you....

Your husband is not the root of all that is evil in this world....for if he is divorce him and move on....

I think the more you focus this back on you and quit running around looking for the drama and excitement....and learn to feel and be comfortable in who you are ....the more you will be able to make rational decisions....

I do not accept for one moment that your husband never met one need of yours ever....

I mean you have this whole thread on the other site about you wanting surgery...and you post an email that on your own admission sounds like what you wanted to hear....that he does meet some of your needs...

The most honest thing you may have said in this whole post is the following

"Why does the life I'm living feel so dull and lifeless and depressing that when another man looks at me a certain way- in a way I'm not sure my H has ever looked at me, it makes me not even care what happens? Why do I want *that* more than I want to avoid causing pain? I feel disgusting and horrible and I'm sure that's how I sound. I'm not sure how to look at the positive and "find myself" or whatever. I have this driving need to be wanted. And it feels as pathetic as it sounds."

that's where you need to search.....within you...You have answered a lot of your own questions right with in there...you need to learn how to look at the positive...you need to learn how to find yourself....If you don't find yourself you will always be lost no matter whom it is you sleep with....
you need to learn forgiveness...
you need to learn excepting you can't change the past...
you need to learn all of these things for the simple fact that they are lessons well learned that make you the real YOU...a better person no matter where life takes you....

You need to look very closely at your need for drama and excitement...and even attention gained at crisis after crisis....

you need to learn to be grateful and thankful for what is good in your life....

marriegirl lots and lots of people have given you great advice here on this post and the other board and hard and painfully earned wisdom...and I am not sure if you can hear them...or if at time you choose not to....

Some of the things we hold on to and do over and over again...are done for no other reason than they are comfortable for us...and change can be scarey....

and sometimes letting go is hard....but feeling bad inside is harder....

ARK

MG,

I know you are a tough girl and a sweetheart. You know you just need a boost right now. Believe Mortarman. He is one of the first people I read here and boy has he been through the ringer. He knows what he is talking about.

I am not going to even insult your intelligence by giving you a litany of why you shouldn't go there. Ask Mortar...when his marriage seemed all but done...wife deep in fog...he befriended I am sure a very respectable lady. I flayed him...why? Not because he doesnt deserve some happiness...God knows he does...and so do you. Not because this "friend" had any alterior motive. I think they truly both had lots to share in terms of support. But to get to the point...Why did I flay him...because he is married...period. So are you hon. If you decide to end the marriage that is one thing...and I am certainly not advising you at this point on that matter.
Now obviously it is healthy to learn from the perspectives of the opposite sex in an anteseptic environment such as this. I myself have offered prayers and support to many people here, both male and female through the boards and email. However, offering prayer and support is vastly different than making a friendly bond with a person of the opposite sex. This I have not and will never do...not because I am in any way better than anyone else but because I force myself to maintain who I am because that is all that I have. If I let a bad marriage, a lonely life, or a difficult future change who I am at the core...then I am nothing.

You are so much more...and you know it. We are here to support you through this difficult time.

kiss the baby for me

ayslyne

MG,

Asylyne is so right. And she did flay me several times. And I needed it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I have a couple of questions for you that may help me understand more of your situation, and to also maybe give you hopefully some helpful advice.

Are you a Christian?

How active are you in your faith, if you are?

Do you have a church and/or a bible study?

what does your husband lie about...and do you ever call him on it? What is his response?

What are your top 5 ENs? What are your husband's?

How much loner will your husband be deployed? Is he career military, or does he plan on getting out? If he is, does he have a plan of what he will do in civilian life?

Besides being a good wife and mother, what is it YOU want to do with your life? Notice, I am not even insinuating that you must have a career or anything like that. I have the utmost respect for those women that want to be housewives and stay at home moms. That is MUCH harder than going to an office. But the question still remains...what are your short term goals and long term goals for YOU?

Now that you answered that question...does your husband know about these goals? does he support them? what are you doing to move toward them?

MG...these are just a few of the questions I have for you. but more importantly, these are the questions you should be asking yourself. You dont have time for an affair! You have a little girl to tend to, a house and life to tend to. You have short and long term goals to go after. You have a husband to love and support. If you just concentrate on what MG can do, and what MG wants...I can guarantee you (actually God guarantees this for Christians in Galatians 6) that you will get the very best for your life. I am not guaranteeing it wont be a rough road ahead. But, you pursue an affair, the road WILL get rougher, and you may miss out on some of these things that you have and want.

Like I said...you dont have time for an affair. Pursue your life, your dreams. Put your effort into your marriage and family. You dont have to be a doormat. Stand up for yourself and your marriage. You are unhappy. But guess who else is unhappy? Your husband. but unlike you, he doesnt have the answers..he probably doesnt even know where to look. It will be up to you to guide him through this.

You made a promise for better, health and richer. But did you really have to promise to stick around for those things? No. It was the second part of that promise...worse, sickness, poorer...is the reason you made that promise. Keep your word. Do YOUR best. In the end, you will get the best.

In His arms.

Hi Mortar,
I'm heading out the door but I'll try to answer your questions. I'll elaborate later if you want me to. Thank you so much for helping me like this...

Are you a Christian?...Yes. I accepted Christ at the age of 5 and grew up in a Christian home. Obviously, you couldn't tell by the way I live my life at this point which saddens me. There have been times when I am closer to God than others. I get distracted too easily. And yes, H is too. He grew up in a VERY strict Christian home. He spent most of his teen years in youth group- completely opposite from me.

How active are you in your faith, if you are?... I'm not as active as I'd like to be at this point. I tend to get really close and then drift away. I pray a lot throughout the day and read my Bible occassionally, but that's about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Do you have a church and/or a bible study?...I've been moving around so much these past few months that I have not been able to look for a church. It's also hard by myself with a small baby and she's just gotten to the age where I feel comfortable putting her in day care (or nursery, in church). I am currently at my parent's house but when I go back home at the end of the month I plan on looking for a church so we can begin going when H gets home.

what does your husband lie about...and do you ever call him on it? What is his response?... he lies about everything. EVERYTHING. He's a pretty bad liar so I usually catch him, but it worries me- the things I haven't caught, esp. since he's been gone for so long. I talked to his mom about this and she said he has been this way since he was a small child. His mom is an incredibly angry, punishing person so I guess that's how he learned to cope. Sucks for me. Mostly, he lies about what he does with other women. He had a porn addiction/ compulsion before he left and lied about that constantly. He took hundreds of dollars from our account and blatently lied to my face about that so I ended up reporting that our credit card had been stolen. He stole money from my parents to chat with girls online and he lied about that (he racked up about $500 on their phone bill). He would say he hadn't looked at porn for a long time and then I would look at the history and see that he had been to about 10 sites in the 15 minutes I was in the shower, or in the other room. The ONLY thing he has ever admitted to me (the other things I caught him in)is when he went to a strip club and got several lap dances a week after our dd was born. And it took him 6 months to be able to do that. As far as I know, he has not cheated on me and adamently denies that to this day. I mostly believe him about that.

What are your top 5 ENs? What are your husband's?
I'll have to get back to you on this... I have his test somewhere and I've done more speculating about my own so I need to take the actual test to see for sure. Actually, I did do the test awhile ago I just need to find it.

How much loner will your husband be deployed? Is he career military, or does he plan on getting out? If he is, does he have a plan of what he will do in civilian life?...we have no idea when he's coming home. His deployment was extended "indefinately" and we still have not heard anything. No, he is not career. THANK GOD. I don't think I could handle that. He wants to do a job (non-military) that counts toward his retirement so we're still looking into the options.

Besides being a good wife and mother, what is it YOU want to do with your life? Notice, I am not even insinuating that you must have a career or anything like that. I have the utmost respect for those women that want to be housewives and stay at home moms. That is MUCH harder than going to an office. But the question still remains...what are your short term goals and long term goals for YOU?...I DO NOT want to be a SAHM for much longer. He gets out in about 1.5 years and I have been trying to go back to school (to complete my nursing degree) but there's no way I can do that before he gets out. We plan on moving across country when he does get out, and all of the nursing schools where I'm living now have a 2-3 year wait just to get in. I have already completed all of my pre-reqs so I can't do that either. I'll probably get a job when things settle down a little. I want to become a nurse, have more kids, live in a small town where we're happy, and just have a normal life. I'd like to be halfway happy in my M, but who knows.

Now that you answered that question...does your husband know about these goals? does he support them? what are you doing to move toward them?....My H knows that I want to be a nurse and yes, he supports me in that.

That's all I have time for right now. Thank you so much for being interested enough to ask me questions. It really does help. I REALLY want to try to get my H to talk with you. Thanks again.

I was in your shoes about five years ago. Temptation was strongly coming my way... I chose the destructive path of having an affair. I felt my needs weren't getting met--husband was gone a lot --so I was lonely . Instead of working on my marriage, I found some guy on the internet. We had an affair. It lasted for almost four years. During that time my marriage ended, and now I'm divorced.(21 year marriage) After a four year A with OM, I ended that. I could see what a bad choice I'd made, far too late.

Guess what? Now I'm very much alone. I miss my exH constantly, and dream of being with him almost nightly. He refuses to forgive me, and hardly says a word to me.

As many mentioned, I now have to look back at my life with deep regret and shame. To me, this is a type of #ell at times. To know that due to one's own selfish actions, you've destroyed the calm family life of yourself, your spouse, and your children. Not to mention friends and extended family. Even if the A hadn't led to separation and divorce...how hard it would be to look in the mirror and know what one has done.

Was the A worth it? Would yours be worth it? I think not. Nothing is worth losing your sense of pride in yourself, or your integrity.

God Bless,
H_P

Married Girl-

I want to share with you a picture of what your life will look like in three years from now if you decide to have an A with this person...

Last night at around midnight, I lay in bed listening to an instrumental version of a song that was playing on a CD. It happened to be a lulabye called Pooh Corner written by Kenny Loggin's. As I listened to the music, I started to remember all of the hope that I had when my son was born. He is now turning 6.

I thought about the dreams that his father and I had shared...watching his first steps, experiencing his first laugh, riding a bike, and the first time he'd catch a baseball! Then I thought about all of the things that I took for granted - like tucking him in his bed at night and then cuddling up next to his father for my night's slumber, or giving him a bath while his dad stood in the doorway and looked on....

The next thing I thought of was the night that I kneeled by my son's bed while his dad cuddled him. My A was long over, and I had tried desperately to gain a second chance....My son was hopeful that I was coming home, but I had to tell him that I couldn't, that dad and I weren't going to live together ever again. I had to tell him that I was never going to stand in his room at dad's house again because DAD wanted his GF to live live with them now....I had to tell him that in order for her to be there, I had to leave. I will not lie and say that it didn't hurt...I creid like a baby the whole time. I had to remind him of how happy daddy was when she is around, and that this was a good thing. I had to remind him that I loved him no matter what.

Do you want to have to explain to your child WHY daddy had to find someone new? He will...if you run to someone else...Do you want to only see your child 3 1/2 days a week and not have the privelege of watching him grow with the partner that you had when you conceived him? Do you want to watch all of those dreams that you shared with your husband die and then later realize that you had a chance to save them? Do you want to have to fight him in court in order to establish the place that you children will go to school?

If you want all of this, then have your A...if you want it to be different, walk away and fight for your marriage.

MG,

I will get to your post above later because I would love to discuss your answers. but I wanted to make a quick comment here.

Listen to these two gals (hopeful_person & kily). They are where you are headed! They are on the other side of that fence. it is too late for them to make another choice. too late for their marriages. Too late for their kids. Even if their husbands were back with them, as I am back with my wife, it is too late to have what we could have had. My marriage might be better, and it might be great. but what has been damaged may not all be repaired. The scars will always be there.

Read between the lines they wrote. See the pain and hurt. Listen to Kily talk about her son, then insert your daughter into that scene. Let's say you do have an affair. And a year from now, your husband finds out, and you are headed to divorce court. And let's say you get joint custody. Your daugher would be close to 3 years old by the time this all happens. Then you too can see your daugher only 3-4 days a week.

Think about this. If your daughter is 3 at the time, and you get half time with her because of joint custody, you will only be with her 7 1/2 years of the next 15 of her life! You will COMPLETELY miss 7 1/2 years of her growing up, learning to be a woman. Some other woman, one your husband will meet and marry, will get those 7 1/2 years. When she has her first perios, or her first boyfriend troubles...will it happen on your time or her dad's? Will it be another woman comforting your daughter during these moments? And on this side...how will you adequately share with your new husband the pride and joy of what your daughter does? He is not her father...his interest in her, while it might be great, can never compare to her father's (and I do not mean BIOLOGICAL...I mean the man she calls Dad.).

Do you see? the devil tries to make us look at the short term benefits of whatever we are doing and make us miss out on seeing the long term destruction of our actions.

As these wise ladies said above...is it going to be worth it to have that fun...that instant pleasure...that momentary getiing your needs met...all which will lead to the things we have discussed here..and so much more?

MG, I am sure both of these ladies above would trade places with you in a second! I would certainly love to trade places with your husband right now...to be given another chance to make right before my wife went out and had an affair. Heed their warnings.

In His arms.

Hi,
I'm fairly new to the message boards...and still in a state of withdrawal...although it is getting easier each day.

Besides the pain you will cause your husband, and your family, you need to consider yourself. Believe me....it is not worth it. I have lost a dear friend (OM) and caused my husband to lose a dear friend.

I have had to change churches because of NC, and I regret it every day of my life.

The load of guilt is tremendous. For the sin, and the pain you cause others. DON'T DO IT!!!!!!! Believe me, it isn't worth it. It will end one day, and that is very painful. Then you are left to pick up the pieces of your life. If I can help one person not choose the path I took, then maybe my experience was not in vain. I am one of the lucky ones...my husband chose to forgive me. But, forgiving myself....I don't know if I ever will. Diane

Thank you all. Hopeful and Kily, thank you for sharing your stories with me (and thank you to everyone else as well). Your stories esp. hit home for me and I will remember the pain and regret I read in your posts everyday as I'm making decisions that have the potential to impact my life in the way yours have. Thank you for sharing that with me.

I've been putting off chiming in here because you are getting some very sincere and wise posts already. But I sense that you have not yet been persuaded to NOT have an affair, so here I go.

I too am a FWS. I cheated on my H last spring with his BF. I destroyed his trust in me, and his BF. He now says he trusts no one except his own family. We are separated, and have been for 10 months. He has as yet been unable to forgive me, and very much prefers to punish me and treat me like a second class citizen every chance he gets. A divorce seems to be iminent at this point. I've destroyed a 12 year relationship, and washed so many happy memories down the drain, for two nights of crappy sex.

The guilt I live with is huge. I hurt my H, his BF, my 4 BIL's, my MIL and FIL, and my H's four grandparents. I've lost my best friend too, my H was my best friend. The man he once was seems to be long gone. All the dreams we had for having a family and growing old together have been destroyed. And for what? Because the OM made me feel appreciated and paid attention to me, and I was dumb enough to forget my marriage vows and failed to realize how very destructive an affair can be.

Someday I'll have to try to explain to a potential new man in my life why my first marriage ended (my fault), and maybe someday I'll have to answer my own children's questions about it too.

Hopeful_person said it very well when she said, "Was the A worth it? Would yours be worth it? I think not. Nothing is worth losing your sense of pride in yourself, or your integrity."

And as Diane said, "If I can help one person not choose the path I took, then maybe my experience was not in vain."

Having an affair will not make everything better. It may feel good for a moment or a few days, but in the long run it will come to light and tarnish the rest of your life, and your child's life too.

Please think of the long term effects, and don't have an affair. You most certainly will regret it.

Jen

Jen

[ April 08, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]

If you could understand for one second how awful your husband will feel when/if he finds out, then you wouldn't even need to post this question. It is a pain that can not be described, and it is worse than you can ever imagine ten fold. Do not do it.

He forgot my birthday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It just saddens me that he can't get over himself long enough to remember his own wife's birthday. He wrote me a couple e-mails this morning telling me they're back in port, he's bored, blah, blah. All I wanted was a "I hope you have a good birthday hun. I miss you and wish I could be there." That's IT. I can't even get that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

MarriedGirl,

I strongly hope you choose not to have an A. I have lived with the effects of this choice like you can not imagine. I caught my wife in both an EA and PA after she moved out on me seperated. It had started after only 3 months of marriage, and went on for a year.

I heard many of the same complaints you are making. He didn't remember to do this, you are controlling me with money, etc. But much of those items were really because of a new relationship, and our inability to communicate properly. They were all addressable problems, and were mostly because of each of our own inadequacies and inabilities. But, while I read marriage counseling books to try and be a better person, she had an affair with a mutual friend. You can guess how that now makes her feel, and how I feel about myself as well. I feel like dirt.

Now I sit here, more hurt than you can possibly imagine. She told me yesterday she wants to file for divorce, and we haven't even tried an MC together. I now feel more powerless, and so worthless because of her decisions. I live on a diet of anti-depressants, and trying to make it through each day. It has largely destroyed me as an individual. I count my accomplishments as such things as actually eating three meals a day. I'm underweight, and still losing more.

Do you want to cause this pain to your H? Do you want to see him in this state? Please, wait and go to MC. If you really can't work things out after honestly trying, then look for someone else. Cut it clean and move on knowing that you tried the best you could (and we all need help in doing this. We can't do it on our own). Don't go this route. I can't tell you what it is like for the person having the affair, but I can sure tell you about what it is like to be the BS. I would never want to hurt another person this way, never mind a friend/lover. I know that because of my WW's decision, I will be scarred for a very long time. This makes me nothing but sad. She is still in the fog, and feel's I deserved it, and that it was justifiable. This twists the knife in the wound. These situations can get so messy, and really don't solve a thing.

Please think carefully about this,

Eric

MG this is a perfect oppertunity to address things with your h. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, turn it around with an email! Tell him honestly how you fee, ask him if he knows he forgot your birthday. I just forgot my best freinds birthday and I have known her for 20 + years!!! You can imagine the new a$$**** she ripped me, especially being her 30th. But it just goes to show it does happen, I had a ton on my mind, but it doesn't mean she still isn;t a priority in my life.

Again do not have an A. you have no idea what you will be doing to yourself or your H. WHen I was having the A , I was like WOW this is so weird, I have no feelings of remorse or regret at all!!!! You can not see the dangers of an A when you are already in one.Listen to the BS, listen to the WS. By your own admission its just lust.How does that fullfill your EN's that your H is not?

MG
My husband forgot my birthday before I began the affair...and guess what? The OM wished me happy birthday at church in front of the SS class. How I wish I had told my husband how this made me feel instead of making the choice I made. My life would have been much simplier! Believe me when I tell you the pain YOU will feel is not worth it....and that does not even include the pain you will be causing others. Diane

mg,

I posted back at the beginning of this thread, too.

My lovely wife had 2 A's one PA in 99 and an EA from APR 02-???(still has stong feelings for him). I remember how I felt when I found out. Her family, best friend and OM#2 all knew about the first A before me. The pain and anguish I felt then is not even close to what I feel now after I had a PA in Dec 02.

You will regret it if you have an A. Kily's post almost made me cry right here at my desk. Being betrayed you have somewhere to put the disappointment and anger if you want. Doing the betraying you will disappoint yourself, your H, your families, friends and God. Everthing you have stood for, fidelity, honesty, respect and so on will be called into question. It will cast doubts on your committment to the M and your love for your H regardless if they were the most sincere and honest feelings that you have ever had. You character as a person will be tarnished.

Don't go there. No matter how bad you lonely you feel it will make you feel worse. You are being tempted by the evil one. An affair comes wrapped in this pretty package with bows and shiny paper but inside is a steaming pile of crap.

How's that for brightening a morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know the answer to this question already.

[ April 09, 2003, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: d_rose ]

Happy Birthday MG <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My H is home...and I remind him when my birthday or our anniversary is coming up. Or, really since we've been in recovery, he lets me know he's remembered. It saves me from the anger and him from feeling stupid.

Think of it this way, if your H missing your birthday is the last straw and you have an affair...it's like Chris (CA123)'s W who said one of the reasons was he bought Pepsi not Coke (or was it Coke not Pepsi?).

It's just an excuse to do what you want.

I don't think your H is doing a good job being a husband, but he is away and many people compartmentalize their live into work and home. He's probably in work/guy mode most of the time because he isn't home.

There is no justification for you to have an affair. None.

MG,

I think you are getting the point here about having an affair. I'd like to get on to dealing with the answers to the questions I gave you. First off though...happy birthday! As you have said, your husband is far from being a good husband He is going to need some work. So him forgetting your birthday is probably not something surprising from someone acting as he is. I know that doesnt make you feel better, but if you can get to the point of understanding where he is, then you can help him move out of that.

Now to your answers:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Are you a Christian?... <blockquote>quote:<hr />Yes. I accepted Christ at the age of 5 and grew up in a Christian home. Obviously, you couldn't tell by the way I live my life at this point which saddens me. There have been times when I am closer to God than others. I get distracted too easily. And yes, H is too. He grew up in a VERY strict Christian home. He spent most of his teen years in youth group- completely opposite from me. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>I understand being distracted. I wont even get into that here. But I want to say is that you need to count on Christ to meet all of your needs first. When you do that, watch what He does to your husband! Remember, there are three of you in that marriage. And Christ is not going to allow your husband to not take care of you. But you have to trust Him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />How active are you in your faith, if you are?... <blockquote>quote:<hr />I'm not as active as I'd like to be at this point. I tend to get really close and then drift away. I pray a lot throughout the day and read my Bible occassionally, but that's about it. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>Again, your answer is with Him. Only He can change your husband. Follow Him, listen to Him…He will show you the way.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Do you have a church and/or a bible study?... <blockquote>quote:<hr />I've been moving around so much these past few months that I have not been able to look for a church. It's also hard by myself with a small baby and she's just gotten to the age where I feel comfortable putting her in day care (or nursery, in church). I am currently at my parent's house but when I go back home at the end of the month I plan on looking for a church so we can begin going when H gets home. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>I understand where you are at…believe me. When we separated, I spent the last 8 months taking care of three kids, working, getting ready for possibly going to war, etc. But I made sure that I took time out for my relationship with Him. You may think you don't have time right now for that, but I tell you…you don't have time to ignore Him. He is the answer. Not all of these other things. You have a relationship with Him…a personal one. Don't take it for granted (isnt that what your husband is doing to you…how do you think Jesus feels with you not having time for Him?). I don't say these things to condemn…I say them because I have and still struggle with these same issues. And my relationship has not always been what it should be.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />what does your husband lie about...and do you ever call him on it? What is his response?... <blockquote>quote:<hr />he lies about everything. EVERYTHING. He's a pretty bad liar so I usually catch him, but it worries me- the things I haven't caught, esp. since he's been gone for so long. I talked to his mom about this and she said he has been this way since he was a small child. His mom is an incredibly angry, punishing person so I guess that's how he learned to cope. Sucks for me. Mostly, he lies about what he does with other women. He had a porn addiction/compulsion before he left and lied about that constantly. He took hundreds of dollars from our account and blatently lied to my face about that so I ended up reporting that our credit card had been stolen. He stole money from my parents to chat with girls online and he lied about that (he racked up about $500 on their phone bill). He would say he hadn't looked at porn for a long time and then I would look at the history and see that he had been to about 10 sites in the 15 minutes I was in the shower, or in the other room. The ONLY thing he has ever admitted to me (the other things I caught him in)is when he went to a strip club and got several lap dances a week after our dd was born. And it took him 6 months to be able to do that. As far as I know, he has not cheated on me and adamently denies that to this day. I mostly believe him about that. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>I get the picture. I think another poster here set it well…he has his life without you, and one with you. When that other life intrudes into yours, he will lie about it. He wants both, but wants both separate. Your husband needs some work, as I did. But his is not a hopeless cause. But how willing are you to go through the pain and emotional expense to help him out of his mess? Look at the BSs here that have gone through far worse pain and are still trying to be there for their spouses…to help them in change. If they can do it, when their marriages have been blown apart, then you surely can while your marriage still remains intact. Ultimately, you are going to have to get your husband to the table and want to work on this. Do not be a doormat. You do not have to take his "abuse." But, in that, you need to constantly be looking for the opportunity to help your husband along. Since he is back in port, I assume you will be seeing him soon. Sit down and discuss things. Seek counseling with him, and separately. If he wont go for the marriage, or for him…then ask him to go for you, to help you. You need a plan, MG…just like the BSs here needed a plan. Look at the Harley's plan for marital recovery on here, and in their books. Go from that and design the plan that best fits you and your husband. Can you imagine the appreciative and doting husband you will have later, once he is out of this, and realizes that you thought of leaving, could of left…but instead stuck with it and loved him enough to bring him back? He will worship you. Someone said above to look forward several years from now. How does it make you feel knowing that your husband might start worshiping you down the road? Pretty good, huh? But it wont happen overnight. It wont happen with no effort. And it certainly wont happen with you having someone else meeting your needs. You need a plan MG. Then put all of your sexual and other frustrations into that plan. It will reap rewards that far exceed anything you will find out there with OM.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> What are your top 5 ENs? What are your husband's? <blockquote>quote:<hr />I'll have to get back to you on this... I have his test somewhere and I've done more speculating about my own so I need to take the actual test to see for sure. Actually, I did do the test awhile ago I just need to find it. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>Okay, but figure this out soon. And let us know. This is the first part in developing your plan. You cannot do anything else until you understand what you need, and he needs.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />How much longer will your husband be deployed? Is he career military, or does he plan on getting out? If he is, does he have a plan of what he will do in civilian life?... <blockquote>quote:<hr />we have no idea when he's coming home. His deployment was extended "indefinitely" and we still have not heard anything. No, he is not career. THANK GOD. I don't think I could handle that. He wants to do a job (non-military) that counts toward his retirement so we're still looking into the options. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>Okay, this is good. Sounds like you are the type of wife that needs her husband home. That isnt bad…just who you are. Most of my career, I did before I was married. My wife does not like me in the military, and we both have decided that I will retire at the end of the year. My marriage is more important than my career. But, while Uncle Sam still has him, use this time to better you, and to get him moving forward. That way. Many of these issues will hopefully be resolved once he leaves the military, and both of you will move onto a new life together.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Besides being a good wife and mother, what is it YOU want to do with your life? Notice, I am not even insinuating that you must have a career or anything like that. I have the utmost respect for those women that want to be housewives and stay at home moms. That is MUCH harder than going to an office. But the question still remains...what are your short term goals and long term goals for YOU?... <blockquote>quote:<hr />I DO NOT want to be a SAHM for much longer. He gets out in about 1.5 years and I have been trying to go back to school (to complete my nursing degree) but there's no way I can do that before he gets out. We plan on moving across country when he does get out, and all of the nursing schools where I'm living now have a 2-3 year wait just to get in. I have already completed all of my pre-reqs so I can't do that either. I'll probably get a job when things settle down a little. I want to become a nurse, have more kids, live in a small town where we're happy, and just have a normal life. I'd like to be halfway happy in my M, but who knows. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>Okay, so you know what you want. My wife was a SAHM for 8 years. She is just now finishing nursing school (3 weeks to go!). So, you too are very similar in that respect. Just like the plan for your marriage, part of it has to be a plan for your career, his career, more children, new house, etc. If you don't plan it out, then someone gets resentful when their dreams arent met. Get it out in the open…plan it with your husband…then do it!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Now that you answered that question...does your husband know about these goals? Does he support them? what are you doing to move toward them?.... <blockquote>quote:<hr />My H knows that I want to be a nurse and yes, he supports me in that. <hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>Good. Very good. See what I said above. With the two of you working together on this, it will only bring you closer together. You will be excited because of your new career…so will he. You will also be excited because he will have supported you in this and shared it with you. It will only help your relationship.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> That's all I have time for right now. Thank you so much for being interested enough to ask me questions. It really does help. I REALLY want to try to get my H to talk with you. Thanks again. <hr /></blockquote>No problem MG. And I hope your husband wakes up. I am sure he will, especially if you use what you know here, read up on all of the material out there on marriages, relationships, etc…and then pursue your plan. I think you will be surprised at what your husband does. And in the end, he may just wake up and be forever in debt to you. I wish my wife had done this for me, instead of pursuing an affair. Because any woman that would have pulled me out of where I was and shown me enough patience and love to get me thru that…I tell you…I would probably "worship" the ground she walked on forever.

In His arms.

MG, first you shouldn't because it's wrong. Even if your H has had one, you should not.
He needs your full support wherever he is. To know he can trust you!
Also, an A will only make you feel dirty and less self esteem than you have now. Sure, there are a lot of men who will use you. Even lie to you and deceive you.
Do you really think you will gain self esteem and feel better afterwards? NO!
How about you do the right thing no matter what, so you can look yourself in the mirror and be proud of the face looking back at you.
Perhaps counseling would do you good also. When H comes home, try for counseling for you both.
In fact, in military, there is counseling available to him right now. Even if overseas. I know one lady whose H did get it while over in Korea! For their marraige.
If you come to the point you think an A is best, please divorce first! Because you may as well end your marriage now than later!
And be fair to the man who is not able to be there right now and work on it with you.
Try writing your H loving letters and tell him how much you miss him! Take care of your own physical needs rather than cheat.
There is not a lot of respect for oneself after an A if you read most of these letters from those who have.
It won't solve anything, but rather will create new problems for you!
The way you change the negative thoughts is to tell yourself STOP as soon as one starts. And get active in hobbies, social outlets with other women and family. Volunteer if nothing else to help someone else through a crisis. That does wonders for your self esteem!
God bless, LouLou

Thank you all for the encouragement.

Mortarman,
Thank you again. You're right- what I really need to do is stand by him and support him in whatever he goes through. You asked me how willing I am to go through the pain and emotional expense to help him out of his mess...honestly, I don't know. I can tell you that after all he's put me through the main desire I have had is to be as far from him as possible. Everytime I see a new e-mail from another girl he's communicating with, everytime I think of him looking at more and more porn, everytime I think of the things that happened before he left, I get this horrible knot in my stomach and want nothing more than to never see him again. Yes, that makes me a coward. Maybe that means I don't truly love him. I think that if he had a problem with just about anything else, I'd be much more willing to help him out. But this all feels so incredibly personal and degrading. It seems like he doesn't even want me around- or why would he be so adament about staying in touch with other women and getting deeper into pornography when he knows full well how much it tears me apart?? So why should I put myself through hell to help him out when he couldn't even care less about whether I'm there or not? This is what I struggle with. What's my motivation to go through that? Because I love him?? Well, I thought I once loved him but more often than not lately I have felt nothing but hatred and disgust for him. Because I have compassion on him? Nope, not really. He sure doesn't seem "in pain" or struggling. In fact, I think he's pretty darn happy with his 2 lives. He gets the best of both worlds.
It does make me feel horrible to struggle with so much anger and self-doubt over this. I wish I could more easily "pick up my cross" and carry it instead of wanting nothing more than to get the hell out. How do I do that? How can I possibly do that when my body reacts to him with disgust because of what he's done. There came a point when I would physically shake whenever he was around because of all of the emotions I was feeling- and it wasn't in a good way. How can I "train" myself not to feel those things? I truly want to know because I DO want to do the right thing, I just don't know how. I want to be more self-*less* because I know primarily I am being selfish. I know that I should not be concerned with my needs and put more effort into helping him out. But how?
I KNOW I shouldn't have an affair. That much I have learned here. I KNOW the things I NEED to do, I just don't know HOW to do them. Do I go through the motions and "pretend" like I love him and want to help him? Do I seperate myself from him and get on with my own life and let him do what he wants- and let God control the fate of our M? Please tell me how to do this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

About the EN's...
his top 3 are:
Affection, FC, SF
my top 3 are:
Admiration, FC, H/O (SF runs a close 4th)
HTH...

Edited to add: I don't think admiration would normally be in the top 3 for me, but since H's problems are all so degrading to me as a woman and as his wife, and he's such an incredibly critical person, and any kind of compliments or words of appreciation are so few and far between, that need has grown, maybe over what it normally would be.

[ April 09, 2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: marriedgirl ]

At some point you have to talk to your H. He can't read your mind! He needs to know you are upset about your birthday, that you don't feel important to him, that you feel taken for granted. Tell him his selfish, one-sided actions hurt you. It is entirely possible he has no clue as to how his behaviour affects you! If he does have a clue and doesn't care...well, then you have all the answers you need to make some tough choices.

Bottom line...nothing changes until you open your mouth!!

A lot of people keep telling me I need to "get it out there" and tell H what has been going on. He asked me tonight if I was mad at him (because I haven't been writing as much) so I thought it might be a good time to write to him about all of this. Here is the e-mail I sent and I'm wanting opinions (nothing nasty please) I realize at times I may have sounded a little harsh, but I am hurt and angry and can't sugarcoat everything all the time. I substituted an * for when I said his name...

I'm always afraid to tell you the negative things I feel because I'm afraid you'll hear one negative thing and think "Oh, she thinks I'm a bad husband. So f*** it." But it gets miserable trying to keep everything inside so I just go on my marriage site and vent about the things I feel. They all say I should tell you exactly what's going on so I will.
I'm having a hard time. Period. Honestly, it was made worse when you didn't even remember my birthday (or think to say "happy birthday" if you did remember). All I wanted was a simple "I hope you have a good birthday honey. I really wish I could be there." And I couldn't even get that. I woke up the next morning to some lame e-mail about me getting "boozed with my homies" or whatever you were trying to say. If you just forgot, at least say that. You don't have to try to cover it up. You still didn't even say happy birthday. Come on *, I'm your wife. Grow up a little. It hurts because I spent a lot of time thinking of things that you would like, and sending you things for your birthday. I could care less about getting a present, all I wanted was for you to at least acknowledge that it was my birthday.
I feel that I put wayyyy more effort into this relationship than you do. I need you to understand how hard this is for me and that's why I'm writing. Maybe then you won't take me for granted so much. It is very difficult for me to shoulder the cross of this marriage and feeling like I'm doing it mostly alone. You are incredibly good at getting your needs met however and whenever you want, with no real regard for my feelings. I have made you, as my husband, my sole outlet for meeting my physical and emotional needs (as much as a human can) and it's painful to realize that not only have you not done the same, but you are also unwilling or unable to be there for me in the ways I need you to.
There have been men that have made it very clear they want to pursue a relationship with me by attempting to give me things that you have not. I have not let it go farther than that so just hear me out. I realize throughout the course of a marriage there will always be other people who seem more able at times to meet our needs than our spouse is. I have not been stupid enough to fall for that but I need you to realize that you aren't the only one tempted in that area. It is hard for me at times. I tell you this so you can know the severity of what I am feeling. As much as I do love you, the pain and loneliness I feel at what has happened in our marriage and how alienated I feel from you so much of the time (and not just because of the distance that seperates us) has made it tempting to find something that will help me escape that. But I have not and the thing is, I never went out and searched for it.
I love you * and I want us to work out. I will do everything in my power to become a better person so I don't contribute to our marriage falling apart. But I need you to know that it takes 2 people to make a marriage work and I am tired of trying to do everything on my own. I am very tired. I realize you are far away and there are things you cannot do. I'm not stupid and I understand that. But there are many, many things- little things- that you CAN do to improve our relationship that you have not.
You may wonder where all of this is coming from. Well, I've been feeling this way for awhile and it just keeps getting worse so I thought I might as well get it out there.

~MG

There may be some who will have comments re: your email to your H, I have no comments or suggesstions about it.

I just want to congratulate you for doing a very difficult thing. It's not easy to 'pour your heart out' when the outcome is uncertain. You wrote honestly and openly, you told him how you felt to the best of your abilities and in the end that's what matters. Be proud of yourself. You've taken a huge step towards a happier, more open and honest M.

MG,

That was great. It actually choked me up because I WISH that my wife had put this to me the way you did before all of this happened to us. You have now told him, in a non-threatening manner, exactly what we talked about earlier in this thread. he knows how you feel. He now knows the sharks are circling around you (the other guys that want you). He also knows that you are still here, still committed to him and love him. BUT...he also knows that the ball is now in his court. The responsibility is now his. He now must make some decisions...as an adult.

You will now have to see what his reply is. It may not be good at first. He may be threatened. I talked with my wife last night about you and she said that he has a support system outside of you...the one in the military. A lot of how he reacts at first will depend on the "hommies." What I am trying to say is this may be less of a slap that wakes him up, and more of a wake-up call. It may be a seed that will take time to grow.

So, your job is not done. and even if he wants all of this, he may not know how to do it. He really may not know how to love you, no matter how much he may want to. So it is much easier to fall back on his support system. Be there. You will probably have to guide him through this. Let me give you an example.

When we are young (a little younger than the two of you), guys are VERY nervous about sex. We dont know what we are doing, and are afraid that we wont be "good enough" or do it right. Now most women dont want to say anything because they feel like it will hurt our feelings, or our egos. And it probably will if said the wrong way! But, most guys WELCOME their woman showing them what they want. And when we do it right, to let us know.

This goes for everything outside the bedroom also. We really are idiots when it comes to relationships. While guys are easy to figure out (just rub our bellies, and put food in our dish...and we are great), women are much more complicated when it comes to relationships. It is not the will here, MG. We are (most of us) not uncaring or stupid. We are just ignorant. Most guys werent raised to understand the dynamics of relationships...or women You had better believe my two sons will know! No need for them to go through what I have....AND...they will be a GREAT catch for some lucky woman some day because that woman will appreciate that they do know what they are doing.

Anyway, I digressed. Your husband probably does care. He probably wants to be ALL things to you. But he probably doesnt know how. Women go to other women when they need to find out what to do in a relationship (my wife's bestfriend came to her a few weeks ago asking how to "spice" things up in the bedroom for her husband...it was quite the talk!). We men have no one but our wives. We do not talk that way amongst ourselves. Most men that talk about sex, or anything to do with relationships, most likely are not in a relationship at the time. Once we are in one, we are expected to know everything, and do everything right. Not necessarily an expectation by our wives. It is an expectation that is mostly fed by ourselves.

You have done a great thing here. but this may not be the end. it may just be the beginning. But by doing what you have done and what you are doing, you may be looking back a few years from now and realize that it is what you did that saved your marriage. And helped your husband be all he can be (sorry...I know that is an Army cliche).

In His arms.

[ April 10, 2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]

Thank you Mortar... it's good to know I wrote it in an OK manner. When I do something like this (which is rare) at first I feel that it went pretty well and I'm glad to have gotten it out. Then as times goes by and I don't hear from him I wonder if it was too harsh and start feeling bad. Then when he does write, he usually acts very hurt and confused which makes me feel even worse. I did get an e-mail from him this morning (very short) and he thiks this was all about my birthday. He said it hit him pretty hard but he thanked me for writing it. So now I'm really nervous!! Thanks again.

MG,

This is great news. You may not think so, but after reading his initial reaction, I now KNOW that he is in the exact same position I was before my wife had her affair. Let me show you

<blockquote>quote:<hr />When I do something like this (which is rare) at first I feel that it went pretty well and I'm glad to have gotten it out. Then as times goes by and I don't hear from him I wonder if it was too harsh and start feeling bad. <hr /></blockquote>A very natural reaction. But understand...this is just the beginning. You have been open and honest, without laying into him. He knows the situation now. I feel positive about your situation because of what you state below.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Then when he does write, he usually acts very hurt and confused which makes me feel even worse. <hr /></blockquote>Dont let it make you feel worse. him being hurt tells me several things. First, HE CARES! you dont get hurt over something you dont care about. Our egos are very fragile (yeah, big tough men, huh?). That is why your email was great. You didnt attack. You kept things centered on you, what you wanted, what you needed. We men need that. We arent very good at this relationship thing. That's why he is confused. Now is the time to guide him, without being controlling. It will be a delicate balance.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I did get an e-mail from him this morning (very short) and he thinks this was all about my birthday.<hr /></blockquote>Another reason why I am optimistic about you two. He is rationalizing away your email because he doesnt know what to do with it. Now, you must guide him. Dont let him set it down. Email him back and say that the birthday thing isnt it. It is just a symptom. That you know (even if you dont know...tell him you do) that he will be the man you want and need. That if he is willing, you will show him what you need. That he is the man you want to meet ALL of your needs. And so on. Then let's see what he does next.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />He said it hit him pretty hard but he thanked me for writing it. So now I'm really nervous!! Thanks again.<hr /></blockquote>Again, dont be nervous. You did GREAT! It did hit him hard. But now you have begun. Dont let him off the hook. be sensitive, but be firm. Guide him. If what I read here is what I think it is, he is exactly how I was. And if you do this right, you may just be surprised on how responsive he will be. And then your friends and family will be jealous because you have a man that they wish theirs was.

Now, get moving and get your plan together. Email him back. Console him. Ease his fears. But do not let him off the hook. You are doing fine!

In His arms.

Dear MG,

Aha!! I bet you did not think I would follow you over here from the EN forum.

Once again, I want to remind you that you need to stay away from other men. It is just too easy to develop a relationship. Especially for someone so young, etc. as you. Please remember that you and your H have had a rough start, and his absence is not helping. However, he will eventually be back, and things will change.

I am still praying for you.

2 words-YOUR DAUGHTER.

MG, your letter was good! Just keep talking it out even if it is in emails. Sometimes that makes it easier. Be sure he knows it isn't just the Birthday. That was just one example.
Spell it out more clearly over time. Otherwise, they get stuck on one thing and that's it.
He needs to realize it's a lot more. May I suggest a book called His Needs/Her needs?
It's a great book. You both should read it.
God bless, LouLou

I have been stewing on this one, and realize that this will not be well received. MG, I realize you have this whole "women of the world out to get me thang" going on I've noted on EN - and although I'm not posting much these days I do read and read and read....

I'm seeing advice to you, great advice, from lots of people - and you single out one person to dialogue with pretty much almost exclusively. And he would happen to be male.

Now, I get it, I've always had great guy friends... run in a circle of guys and girls, sometimes my best friend was male, considered having my hairdresser come friend Bruce as my Maid of Honor if it wouldn't have given my mother a stroke. He wanted to wear taffeta and heels. Story for another day I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But you open yourself emotionally to a man on purpose. Doesn't matter if it is on the internet, or right here where we can all "watch" you, or if something about his story strikes you.

You say you are vulnerable to an affair - so, suggestion, don't form any sort of relationship with a man while you are feeling this way.

What is it that a man can give you right now that a woman can't in regards to your question?

And why might that be a kinda iffy idea for you to start leaning on a man for support right now?

JMHO

Not part of the worldwide conspiracy, just pretty good at calling things how I see them.

E

Excellent observation JTW!!! You should give this some thought MG.

JTW:

Good to see a post from you again! Like the content, too.

regards,
-Qfwfq (fka T-zero, 2long)

So what would you suggest I do? Is there a certain female in mind that you would like me to "bond with" or are you just trying to micromanage with whom I spend more time interacting? MM himself said his M almost exactly mirrored mine- right down to his deployment and his W's carreer. Except for the fact his wife went ahead and had the A. I respect him and what he was telling me and was interested to hear his perspective on this since he and his wife have had so much in common with me and my H. So sue me. I see other women ask the men questions all the time on here. Like I have said many times, I appreciate all input. I have gotten alot of wonderful advice, from men and women on this thread so thank you all. I was hoping to get through just one thread without some sort of accusation, but I guess that just isn't possible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Again, thank you ALL. I am grateful for ALL the advice I've gotten here.

Sorry if I sound extra harsh. It's been a bad day and I'm PMS'ing.

Once again,

Why might it be kind of iffy for you to be leaning on a man for support right now?

Do you know the answer and not want to write it down - or would you like me to type it out for you?

Me either - not being harsh - making an observation, asking a question that remained unanswered.

In no way was this an attack. I'm not known for that. Not my style.

Do me a favor if you don't answer the question, go back thru the pages of the thread and tell me how many posters you addressed by name. Your online body language.

It matters not that something about his story strikes you, I pointed that out in my first post to you. What matters is that you are standing here begging to be convinced not to have an affair, and consiously or unconsiously you have made yourself open and vulnerable to a man.

This is how it happens in real life.

You look for support, a friend, a co-worker, someone in class..... something about them you connect with, you open yourself to them, you are vulnerable, and if things progress you find yourself in the middle of an affair.

I'm not judging anyone. Just calling it as I see it.

I'm not suggesting that Mortarman is doing anything wrong - sorry if it comes off that way.

You aren't doing anything wrong either - unless you count doing all you can to affair proof your marriage.

It may be that you consiously need to make an effort to distance yourself emotionally from men in order to get thru this time when you feel as if you are ripe for an affair.

I've been here a long time, and read lots of stories.... been to heck and back as a few could tell you. My observations are just that, observations.

And as far as anything I've said being an accusation... not even close.

MG, hang on a bit here. No one accused you of anything. All JTW did was point something out that maybe you weren't aware of. She makes some very valid points and there was no need to be defensive. People are trying to help you and not judge you (even though some come across that way).

As for no one else knowing how you feel, well that's simply not true. Any spouse who has a partner who is deployed knows EXACTLY how you feel. Myself included. If you want more input from people who are in the same situation then start another thread stating your situation in the topic line. If you want input/help from people more like yourself then ask for it!

No one is saying you shouldn't talk to MM. What JTW said was you need to be aware of your emotional state and be realistic about it too. It's not enough to be honest with us or your H, you have to be honest with yourself as well.

Just so you know, I've been told things at this site I didn't want to hear. After I had given some comments I realized that others were seeing what I couldn't, because I was too involved in my own life (obviously). What you get here is experience and objectivity (not 100% objectivity but, pretty good none the less.)

Just in case you don't know my background:

I'm an old timer here who also happens to be ex-wife to someone in the US Navy.

I've handled lots of depolyments. Some with little notice.

We came home from a weekend away relaxing once to find a post it note on the door, messages on our answering machine. He was depolyed on a special little deal called Uphold Democracy, in Haiti.

Less than 24 hours later, he was gone. They needed his specialty somewhere and he answered the call.

The first time I handled a deployment was when our firstborn (preemie/c-section) was almost 8 weeks old. We had moved cross country a week and a half before, and I didn't know a soul. I was alone, afraid, scared, tired, sore - you name it. He went to the Gulf for a second tour there.

As it has been said around here ever so many times, the posts that you don't like on your threads are the ones that just might be able to teach you the most.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />As for no one else knowing how you feel, well that's simply not true. <hr /></blockquote>I don't remember ever saying or even implying that no one else knows how I feel. Hundreds of thousands of women have been through having their husbands deployed. I realize there are many, many women who know exactly what I'm going through, as far as the deployment goes. I guess the main issue isn't that my H is gone, it's the emotions I'm feeling and how I am reacting to what has happened in our M. I thought it was interesting that MM's wife went through the exact same thing- not just him being deployed, but many other similiarities as well, and it was helpful to hear MM's perspective (as the husband) on all of what has happened in their marriage. It IS especially helpful for me to have a man explain things because my H has a very hard time explaining his emotions or why he does the things he does. He is still very young and doesn't know how to sort through all of that so I'm left pretty much in the dark. I am a woman and I have 2 sisters and have had many, many female freindships and acquaintances throughout my life (believe it or not! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) so I'm very familiar with the way women work. His wife seems to have (or had) a lot in common with me, and he seems to have a lot in common with my H. It was interesting and helpful to me. That's all.
I didn't mean to sound defensive, a lot of things have been hurled at me here and a lot of people think they know my motives. I guess I'm just tired of people thinking they know exactly what I'm "here to do" or whatever, and I'm really not as evil and conniving as many people here think I am. (I'm not saying that's what you are implying, but many people here have so I guess that's what causes me to be a little more defensive) If I seem to focus more on what the men are saying at times, it is truly because of what I said earlier. I am so in the dark about the way my H's mind works and since he can't seem to explain it to me, sometimes it's helpful to hear another man's perspective, esp. when he has been through something very similiar to what we are going through. But everyone here has something different and helpful to offer and I truly, truly do appreciate all the input, even though I may not mention everyone's name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Slowly and carefully:

It matters not that something about his story strikes you, I pointed that out in my first post to you. What matters is that you are standing here begging to be convinced not to have an affair, and consiously or unconsiously you have made yourself open and vulnerable to a man.

This is how it happens in real life.

You look for support, a friend, a co-worker, someone in class..... something about them you connect with, you open yourself to them, you are vulnerable, and if things progress you find yourself in the middle of an affair.

I am pointing this out to you:

If you do something like this in real life you might find yourself in a situation you don't want to be in.

You either get it, or you don't... for some reason I think you are going to spend all your time trying to defend yourself against me (how lame is that for I am known as the gal that at one time posted the happy song of the day) instead of reading what I am writing and thinking about it.

OK, sure. Whatever you say.

Thanks for the meaningful dialogue.

Your response to me shows that you are unwilling to look at things that may be difficult for you to swallow.

That's fine, let me know when you're ready.

The only way to figure out how your H's mind works is to ask him!!! To assume another man can give you some hidden insight into another man's behaviour is ludicrous. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I know how women think. I understand the generalities of how each gender percieves things but, certainly not how a specific individual 'ticks'. Even when there's commonalities that doesn't mean a male has a huge amount of insight into the another male's psyche!!

If you are so desparate to understand your H and why he does what he does, or thinks the way he does... you have to go to the source!!

[ April 13, 2003, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: mgm ]

Okay, Okay. Everybody just calm down a minute. I want to address this issue here, because somehow I am in the middle of it.

First off, to everyone responding to MG about this...she is right. It would have been nice for me to talk to or post online to another woman that had gone through similar things or was similar to my wife. It would have been helpful for me to understand her mind set and what she might have been thinking to do the things she has done. While these things are remarkably similar, each one has its own uniqueness also.

My wife's situation pre-affair is remarkably similar to MG's. Her husband, while younger than me, seem to be making the exact same mistakes that I did. And now, MG is making the same mistakes as my wife did because she does not understand why her husband is treating her the way he is. I KNOW WHY! And if I can impart to MG the things I know, it may help her get her husband to open up before she is put in the exact same situation as my wife was. And then make the biggest mistake of her life. I think she is now getting it. Not about not having an affair...I personally believe MG really doesnt want to do that, otherwise she would have already done so. I think she may be getting an insight into her husband that she never had before. Too often, we all believe that the other spouse, the other gender, understands us. And too often they dont.

Now MG, I want to tell you that these people are also right. You are in a VERY dangerous situation right now. My wife had been pushing away female friends, while having more and more male friends as things got worse. Sure, they were platonic at the time. But once she got weak enough, all it took was one of those friendships, one of those men, to step up and be there for her. NEVER, EVER let any guy get close enough that they can do that! One of the things I did during this was to make sure that I stayed away from the opposite sex. Otherwise, I would have had my own affair. And when I found that I had dropped my barriers somewhat in order to talk to a female friend who was going through a divorce herself, we began just as friends. It was nice to talk to her, to hear things from the "other side." But I found as things got worse, I relied on her more and more when I was stressed or upset with my wife. And what I found was that I was days away, if my wife had not shown up on my door looking for reconciliation, from probably pursuing a deepening relationship with this woman. And all we started out was friends, who needed to talk.

The Harley's are so right. Whomever fills your love bank, YOU WILL FALL IN LOVE WITH THEM. So, I am here to help you MG. And I can give you insight into your husband. But you must be careful what you do, and who you talk to. I said in one of my earliest posts to you that you must break off all friednships with men, except in a professional environment (work, etc). Why? Because the Harley's are right. And if you dont set up boundaries, then you will ask why you shouldnt have an affair. You will have a guy like you have talked about step in and make you think you want to be with him. It WILL happen!

I am here to help you understand your husband. I am here to help you two realize things BEFORE you end up like us. But what these others are saying, whether it is true with me or any other man or not right now, just be careful and make sure you have your boundaries to men set up. That you lean on your husband, or your Dad as the only two men to lean on. That you lean on other women if you need that. Be careful!

Everyone else, I think you all get the point. I think in my case, MG has found someone who has a marriage that was very similar to what she is going through. And if I knew then, or my wife knew then, what we know now...well, we wouldnt be going thru all of this. MG has a shot. If you look at my earlier posts on this thread, you will see that I have tried to redirect her to helping her husband realize what it took an affair for me to realize.

I hope this may have cleared up this for everyone.

In His arms.

Morterman,
I can't speak for Justthewife, but I saw the same thing in MG's posts that JTW did. HOWEVER, that doesn't meant that there was anything wrong in YOUR posts. You seemed intent on helping...but even when others brought up the same issues, MG chose to only reply to you, a male. From reading many of her posts on EN, this is a pattern.

MG,
I keep reminding myself that at your age I was hanging out at bi-weekly fraternity house keggers, was one of the girls that was pinned/inducted into a female associate group for one of the frats, I loved the bar scene...and incidentally was in college getting an education, and surprisingly had very good grades, given my priorities.

You are young to have the commitments and responsibilities you do. But you also have a whole lot of life ahead, it really is best to do things that don't bring regret...adultery won't make you feel better, no matter how you try to justify it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I keep reminding myself that at your age I was hanging out at bi-weekly fraternity house keggers, was one of the girls that was pinned/inducted into a female associate group for one of the frats, I loved the bar scene... <hr /></blockquote>Unfortunately, I think many people here react to me out of exactly what you just said. They think that's the mindset I'm in just because I'm 21, when that is not me at all.

Anyway, thank you all for the help.

That's what I meant MG, there's a whole lot of difference between my behavior at 21 and your situation. Also a huge difference in who I was and now, when I'm twice that old and have been through a steep learning curve and been married to a military guy for 20 years.

I wasn't trying to make you feel worse.

mg -

read my sig line and you'll see that i'm not much older than you. i was 22 when i started my A with om, who was 20 at the time.

i see several similarities between your life and mine (pre-A):

1) h at one point was into porn. do guys not realize how much this kills?! how it tears us down right to the very bottom of our souls?? i couldn't believe it! it started pretty soon after we got married (at least that's when i found it) and ironically it was at the point that i still look at as the best our m as ever been. maybe that's why it hurt so much. things took a pretty nasty dive after that, let me tell you. i truly believe that almost all the issues that lead up to the A were things that we didn't/wouldn't deal with from the whole porn thing.

2) even though h is around, i was SO lonely. i remember sitting outside with him one night, neither of us saying a word to the other and just feeling like the saddest person on the face of the earth. yes, i know that's overly dramatic, but it's exactly how i felt. the night of our second anniversary, we were out with friends, he left early (with the understanding that om would drive me home) so he could watch a world cup soccer game, i got home and went to bed by myself. on our anniversary. i felt so utterly unimportant, unloved, and neglected!

3) h wouldn't listen. i'd tell him how i felt (see above). how we needed to spend more time together, etc, etc, but he didn't seem to hear. we got one weekend a month off together and he'd spend it playing golf with friends.

4) h encouraged my relationship with om, though obviously he didn't think an A would come of it. but he was always telling me to call om. it made him feel less guilty about playing golf, roller hockey, tennis, or whatever else and leaving me at home.

so i may not understand the deployment thing, but i've definitely been in your shoes. i remember saying to h that things had to change cause i couldn't live the rest of my life knowing that this was as good as it was gonna get. i wanted to go to mc. he didn't. he figured we should be able to fix things on our own... yeah, like that'd been working real well for us!

BUT...

now that i've spent all this time saying how awful my h was, i'll now tell you how much he's changed. unfortunately it took something as damaging as an A to make him wake up. (note: i'm not saying go out and have one in order to make things better!!) my h has surprised me with how much he's been willing to change and risk in order to make our m better. our situation is made more complicated by my being pregnant by om - there's a reason not to have an A!

my one piece of advice to you is this: in addition to all the great advice you've been getting here (from men and women), find someone close to you and h, and who values both of you and your marriage to talk to. your mom, dad, one of your sisters, a girlfriend... someone. you need to tell someone about how you feel about om. someone besides us.

i'm a major daydreamer myself and i think that really contributed to my feelings for om. dreams, thoughts, little fantasies, etc, are not idle and are not harmless! talking about it in the "real" world helps to dispell the mystic and the allure of this om. i wish i'd had the courage to do that early on in my friendship with om! some may advise you to tell h (the whole radical honesty thing), but from what you've said i totally understand why you might not be totally comfortable with that.

but tell someone!

you may actually be surprised by how much it'll help to be accountable like that. it's hard to be vulnerable about a weakness like that, but give it a try.

k, i think that's 'bout enough from me.

best of luck,

amy

p.s. i'll add one more thing. being in love with two men and being loved by two men may sound like a wonderful thing, but it's not. it's awful. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Amethyst-
Thank you so much for responding. It really does sound like we have alot in common, as far as our emotions toward our M's go. I'm so happy for you that things seem to be turning around. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to deal with all you've been through.
It's like a whirlwind for me right now. The A isn't as tempting as it would be if he were in town, so most of the time I'm able to put it out of my mind, which is good. Anyway, no need to get into all the details again. Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Mortarman gave thoughtful, caring advice. MG related immidiately because he is articulate, honest and open. His background is similar to MG's and he can give her perspective. It seems a stretch even for the most paranoid to suggest that a focus on this sort of response is some sort of an attempt to seduce or create an unwise bond between two people of the opposite sex.
Also it is just plain silly to suggest that MG focused on Mortarman simply because he IS a man. Did anyone bother to read his lengthy, thoughtful responses to MG...his questions and responses to her? This was a mutually productive dialogue between two adults at opposite ends of a spectrum both sexually and in their marriages. MG young wife to a deployed serviceman, lonely and sad...concerned-NO frantic-over the state of her marriage. And Mortarman, older (sorry Mortar...but it is a fact you could be MG's dad) husband and serviceman to a wife who became so lonely and sad reiterating the question in her head..."Please tell me why I shouldn't have an affair?"...only Mrs. Mortarman never asked anyone but the OM this question...hence horrific pain for the Mortar family.

Thank God the Mortar family has a chance to rebuild.

I have followed both Mortarman and MG...I have told them both frankly do not involve yourself personally with members of the opposite sex. However there is a point when intelligent people of any sex can relate support, history, and experience to each other.

I do not see MG fulfilling an EN in her posts to Mortarman...I do see her looking for wisdom and direction.

It becomes tiresome for everyone to constantly explore MG's hidden motivations...plainly there aren't any. She wears her heart on her sleve.

I myself look for Mortarman's posts. He is articulate and honestly everything I think a husband should be...am I angling to pick him up? Or can someone under 25 only have those motivations? COME ON!! PU-LEAS!!

Give MG a break...you try living isolated away from family...alone with an infant...with a husband whose main dialogue consists of dirty jokes and chain e-mail's...What would you do? I doubt very many of us at 20 would look to a marriage builders site for input...frankly many people would pack it up and move on at any age.

It is NO huge revelation for MG that she enjoy's male attention...she is 20, now 21- (Happy Belated B-Day) gorgeous, smart, funny, and sweet. In spite all of this she is very reserved, respectful, and honorable. I find it offensive to women in general that it seem implausible that she is only focussing on Mortarman's responses because he is a man. Can not a beautiful woman find value in a man that is not considered a mode of seduction?

Give her some credit for conducting a perfectly civil dialouge with one of the most intelligent, honest, tortured, patient, faithful people on this board. If all you can see is a man and a woman conversing then consider opening your mind to the possibility of the value of differing perspectives exchanged in a healthy forum can be a reality and the hypersensitivity attached to male/female interaction may be a product of a personal bias rather than an actual questionable encounter.

ayslyne

Ayslyne,
I am blown away and in tears. And speechless. THANK YOU.

I know this thread has digressed somewhat, but back to the original topic......

One more reason not to have an affair.....the fact that they way people look at you will change forever. If you have an affair and it gets out, people never look at you the same. They look at you like, "I thought I knew you, I can't believe you would do something so horrible." It destroys how you see yourself too. If you thought you were a person of integrity, someone who could be a real role model for your own children someday, someone that your spouse could trust, having an A shakes the foundation of that self-image and your self-esteem.

Just some thoughts from a FWS on a sad and lonely night.

Jen

jen you are right, I felt obligated to tell a close freind of mine who is a devote Christian,because i felt she had the right to decide if she wanted to be freinds with a adulter. Fortuately for me she is a TRUE friend and Christian and our freindship has flourished. I would hate to think of how many of my 'other 'freinds would just turn there back to me......

MG,

how are things? We havent heard from you in awhile. Keep us posted on how things are going.

In His Arms.