Spicy BBQ'd Fog - Marriage Builders® Forums

But that's not the subject of this OT post. Well, it's the first.

I'm in St Louis (or is that St Luigi's?), and it's COLD out there and it's supposed 2 SNOW 2morrow. I think that's why I live in So. Cal. We do "climate". We don't do "weather." It's not in our jeans. When I called home this evening, I told my W that she's a purdy chick. And I think I was being honest AND truthful, all in one swell foop.

Anyway, I had dinner at this local BBQ house, and you know what? It's the midwest out here. And it's not really the midwest, they just call it that because they'd LIKE 2 be west of where they are, which is pretty far right of center of the continent, in my view! So, they had 3 BBQ sauces. "Original", "Spicy", and "HOT". Folks, I could have DRANK the hot stuff, it was so not so. Spicy wasn't any more spicy than original, just different tasting, and none were spicier or hotter than yellow mustard.

A little H2SO4 coulda helped that BBQ sauce. The samwich was pretty tasty otherwise, though.

I thought y'all needed 2 hear that.

-ol' 2long

[ December 10, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]

2long,

You probably didn't appreciate your California climate as much as you will when you get back! You can really get some weather in the midwest!!

St Louis is a pretty neat place! But like you, I wouldn't want to live there! The weather can alter your way of life!! Csue

Hey,

If you don't like the weather here, wait 10 minutes or so and it will change.

Besides, we are the only city in the USA with our own carry handle.

-jC

The next time you are in the grocery store try to find some fresh or pickled habaneros. These are the hottest of the hot peppers. Cut the stems out and put about six in the blender with 3 or 4 cloves of garlic. Add a medium sized tomato with some salt. Add a little water if needed and mix on high. This mixture of hot sauce will light up the most experienced hot sauce aficionado. Plus, it’s fresh with no preservatives. I would suggest to go lightly with this sauce.

About the weather: I think the seasons are great. Here in OKC we get hot summers, beautiful fall weather, mild winters (always with some light snow) and somewhat dangerous springs with the tornados. It’s all part of a typical year in the South Central.

2long: We also lived in SoCal for about 15 years. Friends and family from other parts of the country with "real" weather and seasons (as they would say) would taunt us about no seasons in SoCal. We would tell them we DO SO have seasons: fire season, rainy season, mud slide season...

[ December 05, 2003, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Never Alone ]

Neveralone,

Don't forget about Earthquake season, which is pretty much year long. Ole 2L is sliding up to see me even as we speak. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

JavaC, I do like that. The only city with its own handle. I have family in St Lugi as 2L calls it, and I wonder if they know that particular aspect of their city.

I must tell you that St. Louis is where I learned about the failure of the human beings ability to see what is there. I lived near St. Louis when the Arch was built. Shortly after it was built on clear sunny Sunday after noon a plane flew through the Arch. FAA comes out and starts talking to people and the plane was flying either east or west. It had 1, 2, or 3? engines. It was white, blue, green, or red. AND everyone saw this plane.

I guess what 2L is trying to tell us is that the folks there need a bit more in their sauce. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Or the Bud needs to be toned down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

2L, I here you are not going to grace our presence next week. You do realize that the BEAGLE lands in a few weeks before your toys gets there. Big doins, about to happen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Must go. Hey 2L go to Cincinatti and try the "4 way" chilli. Gotta say that if you want some really GOOD and hot food, go to New Mexico, not that silly stuff you guys serve down south. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

JL

2long - REAL BBQ isn't very spicy. In fact, real "BBQ" has cole slaw on it that would tend to soothe any really spicy sauce anyway. The contrast of the cool slaw on the (temperature) hot or warm BBQ really helps cool the normally hot and humid climate where the REAL stuff is made and eaten. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WAT

so the question on my mind is, 'where'd you go to get this bland bbq?'

as a former resident of st. loo (for five torturous years) i can understand the pain. good food food and st. louis are mortal enemies (unless you're on the hill). to wit:

in st. louis, there's this thing they call 'st. louis style pizza' and it's covered in -- the words of one of my buddies -- 'a$$ cheese.' what's that you ask? it's this blend of provolone and mozzarella, called provel, that coats the inside of your mouth and won't come off. it's truly horrible.

that everyone who lives there calls this tripe by it's full name is indicative of the city's inferiority complex. in chicago, you order pizza. in new york, you order pizza. in st. louis you order 'st. louis style pizza.'

when i was there i referred to the city as 'suburban arkansas.'

ummm ... i grew up in the midwest and there are just two seasons there: f$%^&*g hot and humid, and f$%^&*g freezing. spring and fall last about an afternoon and they're gone.

now, here in the rockies, we have all four seasons.

OK 2long, you got me again.

I figured "so he finally got his W to come to MB and he wanted to do a nice thread for her."

Ha, Ha. I fell for another one.

My Mom is from St Lou,

She told me one day she would be willing to move back if they could get rid of the humididy in the summer and have the average winter temp stay abound 60. Otherwise she said would stay in the desert southwest.

It is interresting how food changes from area to area. I have a good hot food story - about some beans, and the railroad. Remind me to tell it to you sometime. It is a true story, and not even a made up true one.

I notice you continue to go about doing good. I admire that in you, keep it up.

SS

Thanks for all the uplifting replies. I don't feel very uplifted right now. It helps.

My W sent a "happy B-day" email 2 Rat Meat yes2rday. She doesn't understand why I didn't tell her before that I don't want her 2 do that. She said that if I want NC, she'll do it, but she still thinks it's "s2pid". I told her "sure, I'd like that", but it's pretty hollow if it's not something she wants or respects. She does want our M, and says most of the right things - even all of the right things when we talk about the different ways we interpret what the other says. But RM is an insult. He must go.

He isn't responding 2 her, and she thinks he's angry with her for not coming 2 see him after he got tossed out last year about this time, after he got himself an apt.

We have some real garbage 2 deal with next couple of weeks about the house, so I really couldn't go out of town again. I'll be lucky 2 get some sort of agreement with our insurance company in place before I get 2 busy at work 2 think straight. We'll probably get screwed royally, whatever happens.

Sorry for the downer post. I really do know that it's just another rollercoaster dip. I know that I need 2 listen, and talk, 2 my W and what she's saying behind what she's saying, more than ever right now. Kind of like my own advice 2 Mortarman recently.

Interestingly, she said it doesn't bother her if I want 2 talk about our R on here. She doesn't think that counselors can help, and are just a waste of money. I can't make her go, she won't, but she said I could go again if I want 2. I do, but am really strapped while this house resolution is still up in the air.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

-ol' 2long

We had been talking about the "worst" lows in the past 2ple of years. For me, it was when I was at our house out of state in Feb 2002, when I hiked 12 miles in the open desert and almost hitchiked out of her life. I told her "I pi$$ed on about 50 weeds that I'd renamed "Rat Meat". I probably killed them all.

She pointed out, rightly so, that RM isn't our problem. We are. Well, he's an issue, unless we understand that he's "gone" forever. I need it 2 be real, though. Not just a "promise" that can later be broken, like our vows have been (by both of us in our respective roles). Don't know if we can get there.

-2long <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

2L,

You don't say how you found out that she sent RM the happy birthday e-mail, but I'm hoping it was through her openness & honesty that you know.

Her response sounds like fog-talk. She just doesn't get how her insensitivity hurts. I have to say I'm encouraged that she says that NC is fine since it hurts you; however I am concerned that she seems to feel such a disconnect that she didn't figure out on her own that a birthday e-mail would cause you pain. I suppose more fog.

The good news is that it sounds like you had a pretty good discussion about this & she clearly places value on your relationship - definitely something to build on. CSue

2L, I don't get it. You said, "She doesn't understand why I didn't tell her before that I don't want her 2 do that. She said that if I want NC, she'll do it, but she still thinks it's "s2pid". I told her "sure, I'd like that", but it's pretty hollow if it's not something she wants or respects. She does want our M, and says most of the right things - even all of the right things when we talk about the different ways we interpret what the other says. But RM is an insult. He must go."

So... does your wife know you want NC or not? Who cares whether it's hollow if it's not something she wants or respects, as long as she does it? This part is about you and your need for safety and whether she's willing to take action to protect you. She doesn't have to understand where that need comes from in order to act on it, after all. My vote is for NC and extraordinary precautions. Why? Because it'll make YOU feel safe. And that's a key ingredient in all this.

CSue:

She volunteered the info. After the fact, as previously. And previously, I had 2 ask, she wouldn't offer, except the time she told me she was going 2 see him for work.

JustJ:

I agree. I will take NC however she offers it. I would like it 2 be her decision, and she knows it's one she has 2 make. I have told her dozens of times in the past year that I need NC, so she knows. She knows.

She wants 2 keep her "friend", or "colleague" at least. For me, none of that will work, because she tried this once already, and the A resumed. She also said that she was the "persuer", though she didn't call it that.

-2long

The truth?

It's been almost 2 years, and she's just sarting 2 come out of the fog?

We talked about the lawsuit against our insurance company. She said she was worried about the "pain and suffering" and her having 2 quit her job because of the stress. Well, THEY know about the A. They'll say she quit because of the A. She thought of this. I didn't think so at first, but after talking 2 the potential contingincy-fee based lawyer, I'm pretty sure they will. So, the A would come out if we sue.

We need 2 talk more about this, but we've been talking about settling the most amicably we can, without a suit. I don't think we're going 2 get anything less than "screwed", but I"ll try.

I just want it all done. The house issues are NOTHING compared 2 the fog she's in right now. ...

can I just quit? I'd like 2.

-angry, frustrated, 2long

2-long - No you can't quit. Don't give up before the miracle. Also go after the insurance company, I went after State %%%% and won. They weren't like a good neighbor.

believer:

Yeah, and we're not "in good hands" with our insurance company, either.

Worms! All of them!

-2long

Even I'm getting tired of ratmeat, he has to go! But I do like your name for him. Everytime I see it, it makes me smile. It's raining now in Southern California, but not cold. Hope you are back soon so you can take care of everything.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> can I just quit? I'd like 2.<hr /></blockquote>You are a grown man who can do whatever he truly wants to do. However, I have a feeling that maybe you don't really want to quit, but instead would like to lobotomize the part of your W's brain that cares (cared) about ratmeat, so that the fog would cease to exist once and for all.

Sorry, that sounded a little odd, but remember, you don't need permission from anyone to "quit" if that's what you truly want to do.

Just my cynical 2cents worth today,

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I can't think of anything 2 say right now. 2 frustrated, I guess. Frustrated with the house issues, with her, with me.

Just going 2 chill a bit.

-2long

Hey ol' 2long!

Gosh I hate to see YOU down...I love your irreverence, your gentle words of wisdom to others, finding every oppor2nity to insert 2 in2 everything!

And a guy that compliments his wife like you did last week is alright with me!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> 2 frustrated, I guess. Frustrated with the house issues, with her, with me.
<hr /></blockquote>Could it be that you are simply frustrated? That didn't come out quite right...what I mean is that maybe it's the accumulation of things rather than THE thing that's really bringing you down right now?

Of course the fog & N/C you mention are extremely important but perhaps now isn't the time to dwell on it? Put these issues aside for a time when you are not dealing with a large accumulation of frustration but rather a time when this is the one and only thing you are bothered by? And can focus on?

After all, if you've lived with this recovery battle for 2 years, then what's just a little bit longer?

Good luck with the insurance lawsuit...awed

awed:

Thanks!

Well, it's more that, by some's definition, we STILL haven't STARTED recovery, because she's still silly and foggy and we don't have an NC agreement about Rat Meat...

She called me a little while ago and said that she just wanted 2 tell me that she really does love me. We had talked over the weekend about how hard it is for me 2 tell her about things that concern me, that I'm afraid of. And how I just clam up when she gets angry, which is a lot of the time she's passionate about things anyway. She said that she needs me 2 tell her when I'm upset with her and why, even if I need 2 be angry with her.

So, when she called and said she loves me, I told her that I love her, 2... ...I just think that she's full of $h!+ a lot of the time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

I hope you didn't use those exact words.

AND - she said what???????

SS

And BTW,
Her calling is GOOD.

I just hope your bank isn't so empty that the FDIC comes around and shuts it down for lack of funds.

SS

Ac2ally, still, I DID use those exact words. I delivered it in a "loving" way, 2. And she giggled in response. I thought about it some afterwards, with a little twinge of regret for saying it that way, but it IS what she asked me 2 do (even 2 use those words, if that's what I feel). After all, she's never seemed reluctant 2 call B.S. when the urge hits, so why should I? ...except that I'd like US 2 get beyond THAT kind of communication. If she needs this kind, though, 2 get 2 the more rewarding, considerate-without-being-inauthentic kind, then I'd rather do that than clam up again and let her "friendship" with Rat Meat resume like it already did 3 and a half years ago.

There was more 2 the convo, including me thanking her very much for the call. I don't want 2 minimize the problems we're both facing with this house decision right now, either. I had 2 close my door because I was getting teary thinking about the difficult choice we're about 2 have 2 make. So, it IS hard, for me and for her. But for me, everything is overshadowed by the fact that she's not been willing 2 jettison RM on her own for 2 years now.

My love bank remains healthy, though. Probably because I think I understand her better than she would imagine I do - re fences and dessert consumption...

-ol' insubordinate 2long

Yup yup...I hear you...kinda sounds like me (what used to be me anyhow) and my H...I have wondered what would have happened if it had been me that had the A and him that was trying to reconcile? Not much would be my guess but you just never know -- you've certainly given me something to think about, your quiet perseverance in the face of indomitable will and passion!

I like to dig and probe and talk...one of the first things he said (got it out on the table) in recovery: he doesn't like to talk and I do (which, by the way, he had never said to me before!)...he's not being evasive, he just doesn't verbalize like I do...

But since he obviously just clammed up and said nothing when he was desperately unhappy (ie. leading up to the A), without question I needed him to talk this time although I also had to convince him of this w/o using ANY LBs...and I had already convinced myself that persuasion was a subtle form of control so I was pretty tough on myself in terms of accepting where he was, when he was and letting him figure things out on his own, in his own timeframe...

So I think you and I share perspectives but we have the opposite personalities!

Anyhow, the upshot is that I certainly understand your W when she says she needs to hear from you...she needs that connection she gets from talking, and she's asking you to connect with her...

On the other hand, I suspect you just need a little bit of quiet time to regroup because you're feeling down right now...time to tackle this problem when you're feeling stronger...

Maybe you can leave her with a suggestion to think about and agree not to discuss it for a period of time...let's say a month?

I fully understand what you are saying...you want HER to choose N/C...you recognize that it really is her choice, and furthermore it is important to you that SHE choose it (not choose it to make you happy)...

But yet you still need N/C...

So have you tried to write about this to her? As simply as you can but with emotion..."the time has come for me to state a basic need: I need to have a formal commitment to our marriage. After everything we've been through, I need you to stop having contact with RM. To demonstrate to me that our marriage is more important to you than a lingering friendship, a friendship that hurt me to the core of my body and soul, that ripped my world apart. I cannot imagine an innocent friendship with this man nor can I live with my worst imaginings popping out willy-nilly for the rest of our lives together. I recognize that the decision to go N/C is your choice to make. I've respected your choice in relative silence but now I think I was wrong to do so. I should have stated my objections clearly from the start: N/C is a condition of a successful marital recovery which I want with you more than anything in the world."

Well...you can do a lot better...that's just some stuff off the top of my head...my only point being that if our tables were turned and I got that kind of note from my H, I'd be blown away that he was emotionally verbalizing to the max! And when you surprise your S, it is far more likely that they'll stop and think about what you are saying...

You know, at the risk of having some Betty Crocker cake flung at me I have to also add: even though there's not N/C, I still think you're in recovery. It's not perfect (obviously) but there's a lot of love and forgiveness evident in your posts. And despite your W's fog where continued contact is concerned, well...she's not alone in her thinking is she?

I know: she needs to finally have that last penny drop or you really can't move forward.

So...tackle the issue (later)...and if you don't like the dripping emotional written plea, think about a new way to get your point of view across. Try some 180s of your own as reinforcement.

Whew! A bunch more drivel to lighten your day...but it’s good to see the ol' is back in the saddle...awed

P.S. Is your W stubborn? It's occurred to me before that sometimes the continued contact is part of a stubborn reaction...almost like "I'm going to be different, prove the exception to the rule" kind of thing...I know my H resisted ANY notion that what he was doing/feeling was at all typical.

awed:

"Well...you can do a lot better...that's just some stuff off the top of my head...my only point being that if our tables were turned and I got that kind of note from my H, I'd be blown away that he was emotionally verbalizing to the max! And when you surprise your S, it is far more likely that they'll stop and think about what you are saying..."

It's also far more likely she'll think about what I'm saying *IF* I'll just SAY something! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I like your example letter. I think I need 2 do that one of these days. I did forward an email I got from Still Seeking 2day, after I got not only his permission 2 forward it, but HER permission 2 send it 2 her. Getting 2 this point, where I can send her stuff like that without her feeling like I'm "educating" her, has taken the better part of 2 years. Some stuff I've sent recently has been completely ignored by her - at least she hasn't mentioned receiving it 2 me - but some of the stuff has sparked discussions between us. A vast improvement over just 6 months or so ago, when anything like that would have evoked an angry OT reaction.

Is my W stubborn? IS A DUCK'S BUTT WATERPROOF???? My W is one of the most stubborn life forms on the planet's surface (including the atmosphere, hydrosphere, and upper lithosphere, I can assure you!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

2long,

I have to say I think it's GREAT that she volunteered this information. You know you can't have recovery without it.

So she's still in the fog. I think she's made great progress and your communication is so much better than it used to be.

The stress of the lawsuit & the potential of her affair being drawn into it alarms me! Unless this is something you both can benefit from working together, hand in hand which will make your relationship closer.

I also have to say there's some natural consequences happening here with her A being outed at work by her supposed friend. It might just help her towards NC with RM. Does RM know her friend outed the A? CSue

Hey 2long,

I have been by more than once, but can't figure out anything really profound to say on this thread. (I mean, I don't know how to be helpful with this one.)

Just so you know, I still like you.

SS

CSue:

yeah, RM knows what happened. Not when he
found out it had happened, though.

Remember? In mid-June, he called her in her out of state home just after I'd left for home and asked her if it was *I* that started the "rumor" that he heard from his xW that they'd had a "12-yr A". My W thought this "mole" (at least that's a cut above a "rat"!) must have been me, because I'm the only one she knows that described their "relationship" as a "12-yr A." It wasn't until a couple months ago that my W heard another rumor, from another friend, that she had had an A with RM, and that the "supposed friend" (she really was a good friend for a long time, 2) had started it at work.

I've tried 2 suggest that she contact the rumor friend and try 2 patch things up, or just let go of the need 2 get the last word in, but she's not receptive. I think letting go is a good idea for now, because she can see the sense in letting go of RM 2, as similarly healthy. She just hasn't yet, completely.

SS: This morning, my W said she saw the email I forwarded from you, but she hasn't read it yet, because since her laptop was stolen she's using her old one with the cracked screen, and it's hard 2 read around the black bands in the screen. I need 2 replace her screen for her. ...at least she acknowledged the email this time.

-ol' 2long