Confused and attacked - Marriage Builders® Forums

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It seems that most that have responded to my post and most posts I have read are from those who have been cheated on. The responses I seem to get are skewed toward anger at me for admitting my failings.I am at a loss to understand why I would want to tell W about the A with the OW and risk both marriages. . It doesnt make sense.Surely my desire and commitment to ending the A and making my marriage work is enough.

OH dear! I hope you don't feel attacked like that... that is NOT the intention. I can speak for everyone on here (I assume) that we all appreciate your presence here. Yes, it's true, the majority of us on here are BS's... but there are many WS's and combo BS/WS's too.One of the prominent Harley principles is "Radical Honesty". That includes fessing up. Yes, it will hurt your W... but it would hurt her even more to find it out from another source other than you. And it's too important of an issue to hope that she'll never find out. There's always that chance.There's also the fact that you know what you did, and it may eat away at you if you don't tell her. Yes, talking and venting about things on here will help (I find this place to be like an interactive journal..grin)... but it may not be enough.Please do continue posting and sharing. The info that you've been given so far is meant more as constructive criticism based on the MB principles... not to be a direct stab at you or your character. We all know we're all human. NO ONE is immune to having an affair... the vast majority on here already know that [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .Karen

Hi Ausinfidel,You not telling your W is certainly easier on you as well too, isn't it?Harley states "Radical Honesty" in marriage is essential. You can't keep a secret like that and not have it affect your marriage in an adverse way, regardless if you've ended it or not. It won't be easy telling her the truth. It will devistate her, but she deserves to know. Coming clean will cleanse your soul. Without it you cannot truly rebuild your marriage because there will be a WALL of secrets between you.I'm sorry if you feel somewhat flamed by any of us. That isn't our intention. You are very welcome here. We are all here to "Marriage Build" by following the Harley's Principals and Methodologies.Please stay and read, and learn.Best,
Jo[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

Chill my friend. Read on, nobody's going to flame you for telling the truth. Read through older posts and you may find the answers you are looking for. This is a pretty friendly forum, although I won't discount your contention that there are many BS's here. Have an open mind, be considerate of what they are feeling as well as what (I assume) your BS is feeling.

Hey,I too am a big proponent of radical honesty. Chances are that your W will find out one day. Some secrets are simply too big, and someone will slip up and tell, or make an accidental remark. My H never had any intention of coming clean with me either ... but once the XOW had time to think about it, she decided to rat him out. He was totally unprepared for that, he thought that she'd just let go gracefully.These are just a couple of scenarios. I can tell you this ... the more time that passes and your W doesn't find out, the less of a chance you have to recover if she DOES find out. Are you willing to take that chance? Can you go to your grave, or send your W to her grave, knowing that you kept something from her that's this important?belld

aus,Are you here for the road to true recovery or are you just here to get the stamp of approval to continue lying to your wife? There are many people here who have extensive knowledge and experience in marriage recovery and just because they give you advice you don't like doesn't mean they are "angry, betrayed BS" picking on you. They are simply sharing Marriage Builders PRINCIPLES with you. Are you here for MB principles or for ausinfidel principles? Because if it is the latter, you have no need to be here - just go start your own forum. But if it is the former, I would suggest you take the cotton out of your ears and start listening to some people who are little more objective and experienced than you.And speaking of being objective, you are probably the LEAST objective person right now when it comes to your predicament so I would definitely pay close attention while you are here.

I note that not one of the replies addressed the fact that there could be two marriages ruined by radical honesty.I know it would be hard but I feel for others too.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by ausinfidel:
I note that not one of the replies addressed the fact that there could be two marriages ruined by radical honesty.I know it would be hard but I feel for others too.<hr></blockquote>Because your marriages were not ruined by radical honesty, but by your affair. And to continue to lie will only cause further harm, without hope of recovery.

Aus,I certainly didn't intend to flame you. Obviously, my emotions are close to the surface and I tend to be a little self rightous at times (especially when I think I see the right path in front of me or someone else). Please accept my apology for my harshness. Actually, I wish that there were MORE WS here, because they can provide some insight into what's going on on the "other side." I DO have a little experience in the WS realm because of the EA I had several years ago, though many of the thoughts and feelings are hard to retrieve (probably by choice).One of the things that I remember CLEARLY, is precisely what you describe in this thread.... <blockquote>quote:<hr> I am at a loss to understand why I would want to tell W about the A with the OW and risk both marriages. . It doesnt make sense.Surely my desire and commitment to ending the A and making my marriage work is enough. <hr></blockquote>I understand your desire to "protect" your wife from the terrible truth and the inevitable pain that it will cause her. The problem that I see with that is that WHEN she DOES find out (if she ever were to), the hurt would then be multiplied by the amount of time that you withheld the truth. You see, suppose the A lasted for 6 months, If you tell her now, she only (Yeah right, only [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) has to forgive you for your transgressions of the last 6 months. However, if you choose NOT to tell her, but she finds out in another 6 months, then she has the original stuff, but ALSO the fact that you kept it from her for an additional time. Effectively, you will have just doubled the "stuff" for which she'll have to forgive you in order to reconcile.Furthermore, if you are a moral man, and I believe that you are just from the simple fact that you're considering what's right, the fact that you're keeping this secret from her will begin to eat away at your soul. It did that very thing to me for FOUR YEARS. In the mean time, I slowly stopped talking about my feelings, our problems, her feelings, everything because I was afraid that the issue of my A would come up and I'd lose the VERY thing that I was trying to protect. Eventually, that "shut down" by me led my W to seek fulfillment of her EN from elsewhere. That has certainly opened my eyes, and I cleared the air with her IMMEDIATELY, but now she has not just 3 months worth of an EA to forgive, but FOUR YEARS AND THREE MONTHS of deception to forgive..... I don't know if she'll be able to do that.Beyond that, it's awefully easy to start the deception ball rolling, and if you choose to do it with this one BIG one, then many other problems that arise won't be revealed either..... For instance, three years ago, I got a DUI...but since it wasn't quite as big a deal as my having an A, I felt that it wouldn't be a problem to just not tell her about it and deceive her... until I had little choice to tell her.It's a slippery way once you get started.I hope this brings a little clarity to my earlier post on the other thread.If there's anything I (or anyone here) can do to help you and your W through these difficult times, please don't hesitate to post it. Sure you may get flamed, but most (I dare say nearly all) people here are here for support- theirs AND YOURS.KevP.S. just a quick (I promise) note on the possibility of two marriages being affected...I assume you speak about the OW's marriage. It's too bad that that is so, but really, you can ONLY be responsible (in every sense of the word) for YOU and YOUR MARRIAGE. What the OW chooses or chooses not to do cannot be your concern. If you love your W, and are committed to rebuilding your M, then step one is to cut ALL ties w/ OW permanently (zip, zilch, nada).[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]

Boy Dana, you beat me to it.It's TRUE Ausinfidel, your Affair is what ruined two marriages. Jo

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by ausinfidel:
I note that not one of the replies addressed the fact that there could be two marriages ruined by radical honesty.I know it would be hard but I feel for others too.<hr></blockquote>I have but one question:Put the show on the other foot. Say your W had been having an affair with a married man. Would you want to know about it?Do unto others ...belld

ausinfidel,I know what you mean about radical honesty ruining a marriage, but the fear of loosing your wife is your biggest enemy right now.My H had an A before we got married,he took me into the marriage with lies, this caused him to change, to be miserable and guilt ridden. This tainted all of our love, our best moments all the happiness we could have had was thrown out by a lie, my own health and our well being, everything.Please do not think people here are mad at you, believe me they are not, they are just being raw sincere with you.Please ausinfidel, tell your wife, have faith in her, that she loves you, and that she will want to work out with your marriage. At first she'll be ridden by anger and sadness, she will think "What did I do wrong?" "Does he even tell me the truth now?". You have to show her you are willing to put all your cards over the table, (facing up of course), that you would do anything to go on with your marriage and be happy.I was awfully mad at my H for all the lies and pain, I had a lot of LB attacks that I could barely stop, and he was feeling awful, but now I know he wants to be sincere and help me out.Please do NOT contact your OW, he did after he cheated on me, with the same purpose, he wanted to keep being friends and not having her as an enemy, BIG BIG mistake, that just made me feel worse, and he has discovered she wasn't even worth all the trouble, not at all.<<hugglez>>

aus,I've re-read the posts you've received, and I can see now how it is that you're feeling attacked. It will take some time to see that these shots at you are not with the intention to hurt you. When you're able to read as much as you can on the concepts and principles of MB, AND the reasons Dr. Harley came to those conclusions, you'll understand better.Speaking from personal experience, it took me WEEKS of constant reading on here to get a fairly good grasp on it all. And even then, I was no pro. Shoot! Even NOW I don't know as much as I should (considering how much time I've spent on here [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ).MelodyLane: I know you're saying things that are true... but please re-read your posts and see how your wording is rather finger pointing. I know that's not your intention. I also know how typing things out doesn't allow for the intonations that can make some words and phrases be interpretted so differently. Karen

Aus,After further review... I don't know if I mentioned it in your other thread or not (too lazy to look I guess), but I would HIGHLY suggest that you get a copy of "Surviving an Affair" from the site bookstore. It will explain the principles to you, and gives real life examples of two couples and their pains to put a marriage back together.It is my interpretation (and belief) that if used religiously, the MB principles can help you build a marriage that is actually far and away BETTER than the marriage you've had. I'm talking about the marriage in which you and your W were passionately in love with and unconditionally trusted each other, not the marriage in jeopardy of crumbling as it is now. I really believe that.Take a look at you marriage at its happiest; now, multiply that, the love, the respect, the passion, the dedication. Isn't that worth the concept of Radical Honesty (and others)? Sure it'll be a hard road, but most worthwhile things in life are NOT easy. Think about it.K

Aus-I second Kevco. Once you have this secret on your heart, how can you ever really be close to your wife. This affair will always stand between you.My husband had a one-night-stand four years ago. He was wracked with guilt and promised himself that it would NEVER, NEVER happen again. Well, after several years of holding on to that secret, he developed a moral callous over that spot. That door, once opened, was just too tempting to him, and by not telling me, we hadn't closed the door. This past year he had a six-month physical affair which has broken my heart. For four of the fourteen years we've been married, I have been living with a stranger.Telling your wife is what will bring your affair to a close. Do you really believe you would be strong enough to resist the OW if she popped up tomorrow saying "I forgive you for accusing me. Please come see me, I love you" ? I think you'd find it practically impossible.While you are having a time of clarity, that is, realizing that your wife and family are everything to you, tell your wife and fix your marriage.Rose RedP.S. I found out about my husband's affair once it was over, when the OW, piqued because the affair was ending, called me and "ratted him out." You can't trust a woman scorned....

OK I'm going to try this ausinfidel,
Reasons to tell# 1 - Your W and ow's H both deserve to know the truth and to decide based on the facts if they want to be married to you knowing them. They deserve an equal playing field. They are adults, to deprive them of facts concerning their lives and marriages to save yourself and ow having to face the music for your own choices is very selfish and cruel. # 2 - Let's say that somehow, someday your W finds out about the affair later (the great pumpkin tells her, the ow has a bad case of the guilts later and spills her guts to hubby and he in turn tells your w, whatever) do you think that her will be ant less because by the time she finds out it has been over for however long ? Nope, it won't be. For you it will be in the past, for her it will be new and just as bad as finding out while the A was going on. No, it will be worse because trust me she may very well feel that every minute the marriage went on with the lie in was nothing but a lie. If they find out later (and they probably will, these things have a way of coming out sooner or later)You and ow were both willing to risk both marriages with the A.

Thanks for all the responses. I have not called the ow and must say the urge to do so has eased for today. I can handle the snipes and realise that many here have been on the receiving end of the pain and I am truly sorry to say that I have too. So in response to the question of the boot being on the other foot, I wore it and it hurt a lot. But let me say one thing for sure.After finding out about my wifes one night stand, and looking at the reasons behind it, I can honestly say that I wish I never ever found out what transpired, however, and somewhat hypocritically, that the changes in our marriage were still achieved. This final stage with my A coming to an end is the toughest for me I can assure you all.

Ausinfidel,Maybe you and Bad Hubby should talk. Bad Hubby is somewhat in the same boat as you, whereas he is/was having a very hard time ending it with OW. We here on MB call it "Fence Sitting".Bad Hubby very much loves his wife, but shares your fears regarding his W's reaction to his confession (D-Day). He is also still a bit torn as to whether or not his W can fill his ENs that the OW was fullfilling. I know you are in pain, and I'm sorry for that. Please know we will help you in any way possible. It's to our benefit to understand what the WS feels when in this delimna. Prayers, and please do come back.Love,
Jop.s. Bad Hubby, if you're reading this I hope it's okay I'm referring Ausinfidel to you. And BTW ... any chance you can offer us an update on how you're doing? We've been worried. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I am a BS, but I understand that you are going through your own deep pain in ending your relationship with OW. I do think some BS on this forum tend to disregard everything about an A, especially a deeply emotional one as being not real because of the "fog". Well, I never discounted my H's love for the OW, I acknowledge that his feelings were real, and we talked about this in a counselling session, but they were based on many false assumptions, deception and basically a "manufactured reality" in order to justify his actions. He found everything in her that he was looking for in me - problem was - he never let me know what he needed. Do you know how hard it is to fulfill someone's needs when they don't tell you, and because they are being fulfilled by someone else? Ultimately - your A was your choice and ultimately you need to be accountable for that choice, as does OW. Please don't interpret this as an attack, but just realize that had you been radically honest to begin with, well, you wouldn't be dreading being radically honest right now. It is NOT the honesty that has the potential of ruining two marriages, it is the dishonesty and the abuse of trust. That is what cuts me to my soul, is that I have always, always trusted my H and I feel he used that against me in the worst way possible. I am SO thankful he did reveal his affair and that I didn't discover it. That in itself spoke volumes to me.So Aus, definitely read "SAA" as recommended to you. Another one I recommend is "After the Affair" by Janis Abram Spring. The final chapter deals with the struggle of revealing an affair to your spouse. But DON"T jump to the end - read the whole thing ALL the way through.God Bless.

Alberta,Thank you for your thoughts. I often explained to my wife that she was not meeting my EN and PN (not in those terms of course) after the birth of our 3rd child and the 4th just made it worse. I did not go looking (i dont think) for someone to fill the void, she appeared to seek me out, much to my embarrasment at first.I dont know if many have heard a song by "Joanne" called "I Don't Know" but it really sums up how I feel right now.It is a great song for all who must say goodbye but it burns.

Ah, well Aus, it is very typical for the H to be put aside after babies are born. No, it is not right, but I know that once my kids were born I had an overwhelming sense of responsibility and some fear. I was also exhausted so the thought of fulfilling yet another person's needs when all day all you've done is nurture and care for others is, well, damn hard. I wish NOW I had been clear with my H about what my NEW needs were once the role of Mother was added to my "repertoire". Had I received the nurturing and appreciation I needed (but alas didn't let him know cause I figured he just should KNOW) I would have probably reciprocated in fulfilling his needs.
Oh hindsight....

Alberta,I realised when i posted that I would look like an ape expecting wife to cope with everything and put out for me. Let me humbly say that I was the perfect husband and father to our four children for the first 3 or 4 years of their lives. My wife barely missed a nights sleep (maybe 6 in 4 kids) and has a cat nap every afternoon due to my insistence and support. I protected and provided for her through this difficult time and understood and accepted her frigidity. Even when she asked me to go pay for it I refused to do so.Isnt it funny. I am now paying dearly.

ausinfidel, who appointed you gaurdian of marriages? And why do you think you have the power to make or break marriages? Not to mention that it might just be in the ow marriage best interest to get this stuff out so the resultant turmoil can clear out the emotional debris of her marriage. Whether it ends or is restored is not in your hands, and contrary to some who said your affair would be the "destroying cause" that is not true either. Nothing can destroy a marriage except for the desire of the participants (one or both) to end it. Both of your marriages ended anyways when you chose to have an A. They no longer exist, it is just the bs doesn't realize you ended it. How can you possibly justify keeping such information secret forever from someone, you are essentially enslaving them to you using the secret to do so...if they will leave you...tough, not your choice. If the ow marriage ends and you feel guilty...tough, not your choice. How would you feel if your w ran about having affairs and didn't tell you (for your own good of course)? Ya know, at first you can sorta excuse someone for what you are thinking, it is a self-serving, but understandable rationalization....but if you stick with it, you are a really despicable human being (on this issue, the witholding of critical information from someone), and really shouldn't be married to anyone. You have no choice, this is not your decision to make, you have no right to this secret.[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]

[QUOTE]And why do you think you have the power to make or break marriages? }isnt that the very problem.... we all have the power, I just exercised it! Now I am trying to deal with it.

you mistake cause and effect, you have no such power and have not exercised it. Everyones life is the sum total of their genetics, their nurturing, and their experiences. Your interactions with wife and ow affect both them and yourself, and thereby ripple through many lives because they are who they are (and same for you), you assume that means you have power which presupposes you can know the outcome of your actions. Since you obviously have no way of knowing, it is not power it is consequences. Your assumption of power leads you to conclude you should do certain things, that is the nature of megalomania, and the rationalization that drives it. Your dilemma is simple ausinfidel, do you pursue what you percieve to be in your best intetests (not having to deal with the guilt you percieve in being the cause of a marital breakdown), or do you act in the best interest of your wife and ow. You might argue that you are doing that, but then you have to explain why your assessment not to tell is more likely correct than the accepted knowledge of the folks who are expert at such things (the psychologists who study the nature of successful marriages). If you reject their expertise, without a more compelling argument, you reveal yourself for the self-serving (and having the attendant personality disorders, including using people which is sociopathic in nature) individual you must be. At best you would be a garden variety conflict avoider, rationalizing your way through life (hurting those unfortunate enough to be in your life), at worst you would be a wannabe sociopath, who always figures what is in their best interest must be in everyones best interest.... cause they are incapable of putting themselves in others shoes..... either way the damage is allready done, you did it, now you withold the means for all the people involved (your w, ow, her h, their extended families) to heal, and grow. Secrecy does not mean it never happened, it just means only you get to use the secret as you see fit. I can't think of much more despicable in human relationships then to bind someone to you by a secret (your w), or to allow other people to go through life ignorant when you hold the keys to their mental health. If the ow (the best choice) does not tell her H, then you should, it is the only responsible choice you have, you caused the injury and should hold yourself accountable for it. That is not power, cause you are not choosing to act based on an outcome, you are choosing to act based on the consequences of your choices. Depending on who applies what standard, the outcome may be good or bad, but in reality no outcome is good or bad, even if both bs immediately divorce you and ow there is no way for anyone to say that is good or bad, that is why you have no power. Whether you tell or not, also becomes part of their lives, but we have a body of knowledge that says witholding vital information from people is harmful, because then they cannot make important decisions for themselves, and that makes sense to me. I guess I would prefer to live in a world where people did not conceal things (and I told, I am a ws, I didn't have to tell, I didn't want to tell, for the same reasons you are saying, but I did...can't say it was good or bad, but it feels right to do so), rather than a world where I am always wondering who is manipulating my life with secrets. How about you?[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]

SnL,Regarding keeping secrets from your spouse and/or lying to your spouse thus not allowing them to make decisions for themselves ... I agree with you whole heartedly.This issue was a huge source of contention in my marriage. And I did my best to explain it to my H. He never got it. He used lies, half-truths and omission of the truth. He'd say the truth would hurt me too much. I'd say "then whatever you're doing that would hurt me so much, you probably shouldn't be doing".But what I believe were his real reasons were he was protecting "himself", not me. A real conflict avoider. I always thought it so interesting that someone that disliked conflict so much would do things that would ultimately cause the worse conflicts imaginable. And in addition, the women he picked to have A's with have very aggressive and in-your-face tendencies, wonder what *their* conflicts must be like. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Jo[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

ausinfidel,Geez, it's easy to see why you feel attacked and flamed here!! Even many who preface their remarks with "just trying to help" or "just trying to tell it like it is" or "just trying to follow MB principals" are really riding that fine line between frankness and pure meanness. I'm sorry for that. I, too, am a WS and I can understand your point of view. Despite what everyone else is telling you here (and there is indeed merit to some of their points) I am not a believer that coming clean is ALWAYS the best thing to do. I might go so far as to say OFTEN it is the best way, but by no means always. It depends on the couple, and every couple has a different dynamic.In my own case, my H discovered my A, so it's a moot point for me. But, surprisingly, there are some spouses, who, even when given the choice, would rather NOT know. There are some spouses who would see it as a selfish unburdening of your own guilt at the expense of their feelings, which does nothing to bring the two of you closer together or mend marital problems.I know of at least one couple in which this has rung true. In this instance, the H had an affair that lasted only a few months, and nearly a year after it was over, the guilt ate at him and he confessed. His wife was devastated, and expressed to him angrily,"If it's over, and you didn't love her, and you're not leaving me, why did you bother to tell me???"In fact, I've read several books on affairs since my own marital volcano erupted, and coming clean is not universally recommended by every psychologist/counselor/ author. Many regard it as a personal decision.Alright, now once again (to avoid the flamers), I ADMIT THAT THIS IS NOT MB POLICY!!! I understand the policy of "radical honesty" as applied to marriage, but I still believe that every situation is different, and a tweaking of MB doctrine may be necessary in some cases, as evidenced by many other couples here.Good luck to you in making the best decisions, and in restoring your marriage. Consider all your options--even the unpopular ones!Calla

Calla30, thanks for throwing a bit of balance into the process.Sad_n_lonely is obviously committed to one school of thought and I respect that. I just can't help but consider both options before I decide what avenue I will take.Remember, I am the one who has decided to refocus on my marriage. I have not been caught out, dumped or rejected. I looked for reasons to get out of the relationship that I greatly valued but had the potential to cause a great deal of pain. I am afraid I may have hurt a good friend in the process and having had the shoe on both feet, am not sure if telling is the best option.I hear the impassioned plea that the secret is something that can be used to empower the holder. How the hell is that possible? As someone who has held such a secret, I can tell you I dont feel empowered.I read something saying dont do anything that you may regret in 10 years time. (wrt leaving family for ow etc) I think that may also apply to saying something.I know of many (too many) men and women who have had One Night Flings, realised it was not all it appeared to be from the outset and became devoted to their family for the experience having said nothing.What power does that give them? I think nothing. If the A was discreet the chances of the BS finding out would be almost non existant and life goes on their spouse enjoying the new levels of interest and deposits into their love banks. After all wouldnt the MB principle support the notion of not making a withdrawal for the sake of it?I am not looking for excuses, just balanced understanding and rational thoughts.

AusI am a BS and I discovered the A on my own. I don't think that I would've wanted him to tell me. But I did find out and I was devastated beyond belief. I had stopped focusing my attention on H. Niether one of us were putting any effort into the marriage. Our lives had become so predictable.I am grateful that I did find our the A. It helped me to open my eyes and realize that I needed to water our garden, because we were letting it die. We don't take our relationship for granted anymore. We realize the importance of making time for us.If you choose not to tell your wife, do you think that guilt may eventually take over your relationship, with time? Do you think that your wife had any idea how serious you were about what you wanted?

wife knew i was serious even suggesting in all seriousness that i go out and pay.. I am a tight wad so that was out of the q.I decided to end the A so in your case isnt the same achieved.

Aus,I have a question; what do you mean "go out and pay?" I think I catch your drift, but I'm a little unsure. Thanks.I agree on a limited basis with a couple of the latest replies in that EACH relationship has varying levels of honesty. The only fear that I have for you is that it'll set a trend of dishonesty that will start you down separate paths.Possibly, if you can hold this ONE secret, but be radically honest in everything else, maybe, just maybe that >MIGHT< be ok. I'm very torn on that point, but I do acknowledge the possiblibity.K

aus,I am a WS...my H found out on his own (he found a card the OM had given me). He found out 1 month after I had ended the EA. I wanted to tell him myself, but I was still trying to come to terms with everything that had just happened. We are going through a tough time right now to say the least. Obviously, he is suspicious of my every move and thinks I am lying about everything. I can't really say where our M will go, but honestly, I am glad that he knows. I just don't want to lie to him anymore. He did not deserve any of this...Of course, I wish I could have avoided all of the unpleasant questioning and anger from my H, but honestly, I deserve it. An A is the worst thing we can do to the person we vowed to love, honor, cherish and be faithful to.Just my thoughts.

Aus -- its about fairness.You are making a decision for your wife, without giving her the benefit of knowledge.My H had an affair many years ago, never told me, and I never discovered it. He recently told me about it.I am furious with him about the unfairness of it. I had the RIGHT to know. I had the RIGHT to make the decision for myself on whether or not to proceed with our relationship. That was not for HIM to decide on his own. The fact is, by hiding it from me for all those years it negates our relationship entirely. It was NEVER what I thought it was. It has shifted my entire belief system. Its like an earthquake to my foundation.And for him to live with the guilt for all those years was no picnic either.So no -- you may NOT make the decision for HER. Its NOT enough that you realize it was a mistake and want to move on. You have to go back and repair it entirely. Otherwise you are building on a bad foundation. You'll never really have the relationship that you think you have.

Aus,
I too am a WS. My H found out about my A on his own. It was the most devastating thing that could have possibly happened to us. But I am glad that he did find out. I think that I may have even set myself up to be found out. I didn't realize that I could tell him. I did not know about this website and was going to another website where the people encouraged you to not tell. So I was in a great deal of emotional turmoil. And I needed to come clean but didn't know how.That, however, is not the end to my story. Yes, my H knew about the affair but there were some things that I was not telling him. And for about a month I tried to rationalize why I should not tell him. But I knew that deep down in my heart, we could not rebuild unless I came totally clean. I knew that I could not forgive myself either. I knew that it would always be between us and that it would eventually eat away at our marriage and our soul. So I came here and got the same advice that you did. And that was all it took for me to tell my H everything. And you know what? It was the best thing that I ever did. Yes, it hurt, and it hurt bad. It hurt both of us. And we took a step backwards. But it is behind us now and we are moving forward toward rebuilding. I know that radical honesty is a MB concept. But to me it is just common sense. My H and I have always been totally honest with each other and this was the first secret that I ever kept from him. And to actually think that I thought that I could not tell him was eating me alive. I can't tell you what to do. But I know what it is like to keep a secret. And to think that you can keep a secret and actually think that you can rebuild your marriage is not being true to yourself. My H actually told me that he was thankful that I did tell him. Now we have no secrets! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Take care!
1stepatatime

I need to add one more thing. When my H found out on his own. The one thing that he told me was that he wished I would have told him. Just food for thought.

i am in a similar spot, although my A is not officially ended. If it does end I am not telling w. i have told my shrink and she says not to tell if i plan to stay. to tell if i plan to leave. different advice for different people. at the end of the day we have ourselves and our own happiness. if we all had the answers like many of the people here seem to, we wouldn't be on a web site, we would be having fun with our spouse. also, most of the people blasting you are divorced, so if staying married is the definition of success 9which i am not sure that it is) then they all failed. again, god has given us each a life to lead and we need to find our own way. regarding the Harley approach, it sure makes sense to me, but again, it is just one approach - like there are many religions - you have got to find out what makes sense for you - and sometimes mistakes are made - do you want to **** up other people's lives based on your mistake? Get on with it - give your wife all the love you can, use the no contact policy and see what happens - don't unload your guilt on her and expect her to bear it too. of course, who am i - I am in the fog of a wonderful marriage and A at the same time - remember being 17 and the excitement of two-timing - it was allowed back then, I wish i was given a lot more information about marriage before i did it. It is tooo easy to get married, too hard to get out. Who said one mate for life? It's kinda like one job for life - yick!

Ok, let me ask you one very simple question. How can your wife decide whether she wants to be married to you, if she doesn't know you are capable of cheating?If you do not tell her, aren't you taking away her right to decide her own life? Isn't that the most blatantly aggressive thing one human being can do to another?That is this reason for radical honesty. To mkae sure each of us has COMPLETE information about our spouse so we can decide ourselves we want to be married to them. You disagree with this? Then tell your wife you do not believe in being honest about everything you do/think/feel, and ask her if it is ok with her for you to decide what she should and should not know about you. If she says that is ok, you are home free. There is no 2 schools of thought, there is just honesty, and self-service (no matter the supposed good intentions of those who suggest secrecy is a good thing). The only reason you won't tell is it may incur consequences YOU don't like. If you knew telling would improve your (and ow) marriage you would tell....if you knew it would end one or both marriages you would not tell........ why? Cause that is what YOU want, correct?Rationalize all you want, as long as you remain a liar (by ommission) you are untrustworthy and do not deserve to be married to anyone....unfortunately your wife is stuck with you, not knowing she is married to a liar, unless she is astute enough to figure it out herself.As for the psychological fallout of keeping important secrets.... you may think you are exempt , but unless you are not human you will pay a price, as will your wife, the ow, and her H. And if you believe in God, it is not affairs that satan wants to tempt people too, those can be fixed one way or another in the light of truth.....it is the secret he is seeks, the lifetime destruction of relationships cause of the secrets the liar carries. Sure you may remain married, but it will never be the deep bond it could be, cause secrets do not allow that, everyday you look at her for the rest of your life the lie will be between you, that is what satan seeks.Ya know ausinfidel, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are truly indecisive and needed peer review for what is obviously a choice fraught with rationalization. Now you know why you tell, you know the inescapable psychological repercussions of not telling, you can never claim(unless you lie) to have been confused about this, because if you don't tell it will now be a deliberate act. I would like to know what you do, but cause people come and go, I may never know....but I think not telling (after being exposed to this kind of discussion) says an awful lot about someone, none of it good. People who do not tell are either conflict avoiders of major proportions (a serious problem in itself), or they have sociopathic tendencies, and are only going to do what is good for them (be it telling or not telling).....the fact that you focus on you so much is disturbing, what you think, you want, you have said little about whether you think your w, or the owh would want to know......I wonder why that is.Bottom line for you (or anyone) including the latest 2 timer is no one has a right to deprive another human being of the information they need to make decisions about their life. Lexxy said it best, any marriage with this lie in it, is no marriage at all. As far as the shrink you mentioned, get another, obviously has no concept that devcieveing people into spending their life with you is not ok.

Being a proponent for disclosing the A to the BS at all costs, I'm going to throw this into the mix. Flame Retardent Flack Jacket Enabled ... [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] Knowing that it's possible HIV+ may not be detected within an individual for 10 years or >, I would say that your BS has a right to know for their own health's sake. It would be criminal to expose them to such a disease and not tell them. Then 10 years later they discover they have AIDS.To me this isn't the paramount reason you need to tell them, but it is a very compelling factor.Jo[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

Oh YES.Yes...I, as the BS, have the RIGHT to decide if I want to live MY life with an infidel. I always said, for 27 yrs, that an A would mean immediate divorce. But it didn't...we are together,after the worst time possible.

We are on the road to communication like never before. We had a pretty good M before but it is gonna be better now. I am not all the way back,yet, but my H knows HE put me here. AND so do I.
Problems in the m? Sure...but NO EXCUSE for what he did!!!If he was unhappy, he should have said so and gotten OUT.He didn't want OUT,just wanted HIS way without getting caught.I have some **** -eyed respect for him for confessing,there was no guarantee that I would find out. The OW said she would tell, but he may have been able to keep her at bay. But it would have meant MORE lies, and he couldn't live with himself, as a liar. I am not nor will I ever be grateful that he had a A. BUT I am glad we are where we are today,reality based. AND I decided on my own terms to accept him back...just like HE decided to wreck our lives with an A.

happinesstoo,I must agree, thank you and disagree with one aspect however commend you for being here. I have made the move to end the A. It is hell. But I am glad I made the move because I know how good life is at home and now wife filling the void she left open, I have no reason to stray.With regard to the one partner for life, they say it was a value of biblical proportions. Great, we only lived on average for about 30 odd years then. I know it would be easy to be faithful for that long. Furthermore one partner would be killed fighting the bear for a berry or in childbirth at an even earlier age.Being with the one person for life is easy if it is the right person and both parties fill eachothers EN's but if and when that doesnt happen, the inevitable does. I know my wife is the right one and now she is getting past her issues, I am mine and our life will go on.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:
[QB]Ok, let me ask you one very simple question. How can your wife decide whether she wants to be married to you, if she doesn't know you are capable of cheating?"We are all capable of cheating. It is just the circumstance that makes it happen. I have no doubt that she is, and even you would be capable of cheating from on high.! but she wont because of the $ I got in the LB."That is this reason for radical honesty. To mkae sure each of us has COMPLETE information about our spouse so we can decide ourselves we want to be married to them. You disagree with this? Then tell your wife you do not believe in being honest about everything you do/think/feel, and ask her if it is ok with her for you to decide what she should and should not know about you. If she says that is ok, you are home free. "Well during her period of frigidity and low levels of libido she did tell me to go pay for it as long as she didnt know about it. I dont feel that makes me home free though because I felt guilty in the A. That is why I ended it of my own volition."And if you believe in God, it is not affairs that satan wants to tempt people too, those can be fixed one way or another in the light of truth.....it is the secret he is seeks, the lifetime destruction of relationships cause of the secrets the liar carries. Sure you may remain married, but it will never be the deep bond it could be, cause secrets do not allow that, everyday you look at her for the rest of your life the lie will be between you, that is what satan seeks."I dont know about your God but my God is one of forgiveness and I pray for his counsel on my difficult situation."but I think not telling (after being exposed to this kind of discussion) says an awful lot about someone, none of it good. People who do not tell are either conflict avoiders of major proportions (a serious problem in itself), or they have sociopathic tendencies, and are only going to do what is good for them (be it telling or not telling)". . . . or maybe that they may not subscribe to one particular school of thought with regard to telling the BS!