It seems that most that have responded to my post and most posts I have read are from those who have been cheated on. The responses I seem to get are skewed toward anger at me for admitting my failings.<p>I am at a loss to understand why I would want to tell W about the A with the OW and risk both marriages. . It doesnt make sense.<p>Surely my desire and commitment to ending the A and making my marriage work is enough.

OH dear! I hope you don't feel attacked like that... that is NOT the intention. I can speak for everyone on here (I assume) that we all appreciate your presence here. Yes, it's true, the majority of us on here are BS's... but there are many WS's and combo BS/WS's too.<p>One of the prominent Harley principles is "Radical Honesty". That includes fessing up. Yes, it will hurt your W... but it would hurt her even more to find it out from another source other than you. And it's too important of an issue to hope that she'll never find out. There's always that chance.<p>There's also the fact that you know what you did, and it may eat away at you if you don't tell her. Yes, talking and venting about things on here will help (I find this place to be like an interactive journal..grin)... but it may not be enough.<p>Please do continue posting and sharing. The info that you've been given so far is meant more as constructive criticism based on the MB principles... not to be a direct stab at you or your character. We all know we're all human. NO ONE is immune to having an affair... the vast majority on here already know that [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Karen

Hi Ausinfidel,<p>You not telling your W is certainly easier on you as well too, isn't it?<p>Harley states "Radical Honesty" in marriage is essential. You can't keep a secret like that and not have it affect your marriage in an adverse way, regardless if you've ended it or not. <p>It won't be easy telling her the truth. It will devistate her, but she deserves to know. Coming clean will cleanse your soul. Without it you cannot truly rebuild your marriage because there will be a WALL of secrets between you.<p>I'm sorry if you feel somewhat flamed by any of us. That isn't our intention. You are very welcome here. <p>We are all here to "Marriage Build" by following the Harley's Principals and Methodologies.<p>Please stay and read, and learn.<p>Best,
Jo<p>[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Chill my friend. Read on, nobody's going to flame you for telling the truth. Read through older posts and you may find the answers you are looking for. This is a pretty friendly forum, although I won't discount your contention that there are many BS's here. Have an open mind, be considerate of what they are feeling as well as what (I assume) your BS is feeling.

Hey,<p>I too am a big proponent of radical honesty. Chances are that your W will find out one day. Some secrets are simply too big, and someone will slip up and tell, or make an accidental remark. My H never had any intention of coming clean with me either ... but once the XOW had time to think about it, she decided to rat him out. He was totally unprepared for that, he thought that she'd just let go gracefully.<p>These are just a couple of scenarios. I can tell you this ... the more time that passes and your W doesn't find out, the less of a chance you have to recover if she DOES find out. Are you willing to take that chance? Can you go to your grave, or send your W to her grave, knowing that you kept something from her that's this important?<p>belld

aus,<p>Are you here for the road to true recovery or are you just here to get the stamp of approval to continue lying to your wife? There are many people here who have extensive knowledge and experience in marriage recovery and just because they give you advice you don't like doesn't mean they are "angry, betrayed BS" picking on you. They are simply sharing Marriage Builders PRINCIPLES with you. <p>Are you here for MB principles or for ausinfidel principles? Because if it is the latter, you have no need to be here - just go start your own forum. But if it is the former, I would suggest you take the cotton out of your ears and start listening to some people who are little more objective and experienced than you.<p>And speaking of being objective, you are probably the LEAST objective person right now when it comes to your predicament so I would definitely pay close attention while you are here.

I note that not one of the replies addressed the fact that there could be two marriages ruined by radical honesty.<p>I know it would be hard but I feel for others too.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ausinfidel:
<strong>I note that not one of the replies addressed the fact that there could be two marriages ruined by radical honesty.<p>I know it would be hard but I feel for others too.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Because your marriages were not ruined by radical honesty, but by your affair. And to continue to lie will only cause further harm, without hope of recovery.

Aus,<p>I certainly didn't intend to flame you. Obviously, my emotions are close to the surface and I tend to be a little self rightous at times (especially when I think I see the right path in front of me or someone else). Please accept my apology for my harshness. Actually, I wish that there were MORE WS here, because they can provide some insight into what's going on on the "other side." <p>I DO have a little experience in the WS realm because of the EA I had several years ago, though many of the thoughts and feelings are hard to retrieve (probably by choice).<p>One of the things that I remember CLEARLY, is precisely what you describe in this thread....<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am at a loss to understand why I would want to tell W about the A with the OW and risk both marriages. . It doesnt make sense.<p>Surely my desire and commitment to ending the A and making my marriage work is enough. <hr></blockquote><p>I understand your desire to "protect" your wife from the terrible truth and the inevitable pain that it will cause her. The problem that I see with that is that WHEN she DOES find out (if she ever were to), the hurt would then be multiplied by the amount of time that you withheld the truth. You see, suppose the A lasted for 6 months, If you tell her now, she only (Yeah right, only [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) has to forgive you for your transgressions of the last 6 months. However, if you choose NOT to tell her, but she finds out in another 6 months, then she has the original stuff, but ALSO the fact that you kept it from her for an additional time. Effectively, you will have just doubled the "stuff" for which she'll have to forgive you in order to reconcile.<p>Furthermore, if you are a moral man, and I believe that you are just from the simple fact that you're considering what's right, the fact that you're keeping this secret from her will begin to eat away at your soul. It did that very thing to me for FOUR YEARS. In the mean time, I slowly stopped talking about my feelings, our problems, her feelings, everything because I was afraid that the issue of my A would come up and I'd lose the VERY thing that I was trying to protect. Eventually, that "shut down" by me led my W to seek fulfillment of her EN from elsewhere. That has certainly opened my eyes, and I cleared the air with her IMMEDIATELY, but now she has not just 3 months worth of an EA to forgive, but FOUR YEARS AND THREE MONTHS of deception to forgive..... I don't know if she'll be able to do that.<p>Beyond that, it's awefully easy to start the deception ball rolling, and if you choose to do it with this one BIG one, then many other problems that arise won't be revealed either..... For instance, three years ago, I got a DUI...but since it wasn't quite as big a deal as my having an A, I felt that it wouldn't be a problem to just not tell her about it and deceive her... until I had little choice to tell her.<p>It's a slippery way once you get started.<p>I hope this brings a little clarity to my earlier post on the other thread.<p>If there's anything I (or anyone here) can do to help you and your W through these difficult times, please don't hesitate to post it. Sure you may get flamed, but most (I dare say nearly all) people here are here for support- theirs AND YOURS.<p>Kev<p>P.S. just a quick (I promise) note on the possibility of two marriages being affected...I assume you speak about the OW's marriage. It's too bad that that is so, but really, you can ONLY be responsible (in every sense of the word) for YOU and YOUR MARRIAGE. What the OW chooses or chooses not to do cannot be your concern. If you love your W, and are committed to rebuilding your M, then step one is to cut ALL ties w/ OW permanently (zip, zilch, nada).<p>[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: kevco- ]</p>

Boy Dana, you beat me to it.<p>It's TRUE Ausinfidel, your Affair is what ruined two marriages. <p>Jo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ausinfidel:
<strong>I note that not one of the replies addressed the fact that there could be two marriages ruined by radical honesty.<p>I know it would be hard but I feel for others too.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have but one question:<p>Put the show on the other foot. Say your W had been having an affair with a married man. Would you want to know about it?<p>Do unto others ...<p>belld

ausinfidel,<p>I know what you mean about radical honesty ruining a marriage, but the fear of loosing your wife is your biggest enemy right now.<p>My H had an A before we got married,he took me into the marriage with lies, this caused him to change, to be miserable and guilt ridden. This tainted all of our love, our best moments all the happiness we could have had was thrown out by a lie, my own health and our well being, everything.<p>Please do not think people here are mad at you, believe me they are not, they are just being raw sincere with you.<p>Please ausinfidel, tell your wife, have faith in her, that she loves you, and that she will want to work out with your marriage. At first she'll be ridden by anger and sadness, she will think "What did I do wrong?" "Does he even tell me the truth now?". You have to show her you are willing to put all your cards over the table, (facing up of course), that you would do anything to go on with your marriage and be happy.<p>I was awfully mad at my H for all the lies and pain, I had a lot of LB attacks that I could barely stop, and he was feeling awful, but now I know he wants to be sincere and help me out.<p>Please do NOT contact your OW, he did after he cheated on me, with the same purpose, he wanted to keep being friends and not having her as an enemy, BIG BIG mistake, that just made me feel worse, and he has discovered she wasn't even worth all the trouble, not at all.<p><<hugglez>>

aus,<p>I've re-read the posts you've received, and I can see now how it is that you're feeling attacked. It will take some time to see that these shots at you are not with the intention to hurt you. When you're able to read as much as you can on the concepts and principles of MB, AND the reasons Dr. Harley came to those conclusions, you'll understand better.<p>Speaking from personal experience, it took me WEEKS of constant reading on here to get a fairly good grasp on it all. And even then, I was no pro. Shoot! Even NOW I don't know as much as I should (considering how much time I've spent on here [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>MelodyLane: I know you're saying things that are true... but please re-read your posts and see how your wording is rather finger pointing. I know that's not your intention. I also know how typing things out doesn't allow for the intonations that can make some words and phrases be interpretted so differently. <p>Karen

Aus,<p>After further review... I don't know if I mentioned it in your other thread or not (too lazy to look I guess), but I would HIGHLY suggest that you get a copy of "Surviving an Affair" from the site bookstore. It will explain the principles to you, and gives real life examples of two couples and their pains to put a marriage back together.<p>It is my interpretation (and belief) that if used religiously, the MB principles can help you build a marriage that is actually far and away BETTER than the marriage you've had. I'm talking about the marriage in which you and your W were passionately in love with and unconditionally trusted each other, not the marriage in jeopardy of crumbling as it is now. I really believe that.<p>Take a look at you marriage at its happiest; now, multiply that, the love, the respect, the passion, the dedication. Isn't that worth the concept of Radical Honesty (and others)? Sure it'll be a hard road, but most worthwhile things in life are NOT easy. Think about it.<p>K

Aus-I second Kevco. Once you have this secret on your heart, how can you ever really be close to your wife. This affair will always stand between you.<p>My husband had a one-night-stand four years ago. He was wracked with guilt and promised himself that it would NEVER, NEVER happen again. Well, after several years of holding on to that secret, he developed a moral callous over that spot. That door, once opened, was just too tempting to him, and by not telling me, we hadn't closed the door. This past year he had a six-month physical affair which has broken my heart. For four of the fourteen years we've been married, I have been living with a stranger.<p>Telling your wife is what will bring your affair to a close. Do you really believe you would be strong enough to resist the OW if she popped up tomorrow saying "I forgive you for accusing me. Please come see me, I love you" ? I think you'd find it practically impossible.<p>While you are having a time of clarity, that is, realizing that your wife and family are everything to you, tell your wife and fix your marriage.<p>Rose Red<p>P.S. I found out about my husband's affair once it was over, when the OW, piqued because the affair was ending, called me and "ratted him out." You can't trust a woman scorned....

OK I'm going to try this ausinfidel,
Reasons to tell<p># 1 - Your W and ow's H both deserve to know the truth and to decide based on the facts if they want to be married to you knowing them. They deserve an equal playing field. They are adults, to deprive them of facts concerning their lives and marriages to save yourself and ow having to face the music for your own choices is very selfish and cruel. <p># 2 - Let's say that somehow, someday your W finds out about the affair later (the great pumpkin tells her, the ow has a bad case of the guilts later and spills her guts to hubby and he in turn tells your w, whatever) do you think that her will be ant less because by the time she finds out it has been over for however long ? Nope, it won't be. For you it will be in the past, for her it will be new and just as bad as finding out while the A was going on. No, it will be worse because trust me she may very well feel that every minute the marriage went on with the lie in was nothing but a lie. If they find out later (and they probably will, these things have a way of coming out sooner or later)<p>You and ow were both willing to risk both marriages with the A.

Thanks for all the responses. I have not called the ow and must say the urge to do so has eased for today. <p>I can handle the snipes and realise that many here have been on the receiving end of the pain and I am truly sorry to say that I have too. <p>So in response to the question of the boot being on the other foot, I wore it and it hurt a lot. <p>But let me say one thing for sure.<p>After finding out about my wifes one night stand, and looking at the reasons behind it, I can honestly say that I wish I never ever found out what transpired, however, and somewhat hypocritically, that the changes in our marriage were still achieved. <p>This final stage with my A coming to an end is the toughest for me I can assure you all.

Ausinfidel,<p>Maybe you and Bad Hubby should talk. Bad Hubby is somewhat in the same boat as you, whereas he is/was having a very hard time ending it with OW. We here on MB call it "Fence Sitting".<p>Bad Hubby very much loves his wife, but shares your fears regarding his W's reaction to his confession (D-Day). He is also still a bit torn as to whether or not his W can fill his ENs that the OW was fullfilling. <p>I know you are in pain, and I'm sorry for that. Please know we will help you in any way possible. It's to our benefit to understand what the WS feels when in this delimna. <p>Prayers, and please do come back.<p>Love,
Jo<p>p.s. Bad Hubby, if you're reading this I hope it's okay I'm referring Ausinfidel to you. And BTW ... any chance you can offer us an update on how you're doing? We've been worried. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I am a BS, but I understand that you are going through your own deep pain in ending your relationship with OW. I do think some BS on this forum tend to disregard everything about an A, especially a deeply emotional one as being not real because of the "fog". Well, I never discounted my H's love for the OW, I acknowledge that his feelings were real, and we talked about this in a counselling session, but they were based on many false assumptions, deception and basically a "manufactured reality" in order to justify his actions. He found everything in her that he was looking for in me - problem was - he never let me know what he needed. Do you know how hard it is to fulfill someone's needs when they don't tell you, and because they are being fulfilled by someone else? <p>Ultimately - your A was your choice and ultimately you need to be accountable for that choice, as does OW. Please don't interpret this as an attack, but just realize that had you been radically honest to begin with, well, you wouldn't be dreading being radically honest right now. It is NOT the honesty that has the potential of ruining two marriages, it is the dishonesty and the abuse of trust. That is what cuts me to my soul, is that I have always, always trusted my H and I feel he used that against me in the worst way possible. I am SO thankful he did reveal his affair and that I didn't discover it. That in itself spoke volumes to me.<p>So Aus, definitely read "SAA" as recommended to you. Another one I recommend is "After the Affair" by Janis Abram Spring. The final chapter deals with the struggle of revealing an affair to your spouse. But DON"T jump to the end - read the whole thing ALL the way through.<p>God Bless.

Alberta,<p>Thank you for your thoughts. I often explained to my wife that she was not meeting my EN and PN (not in those terms of course) after the birth of our 3rd child and the 4th just made it worse. I did not go looking (i dont think) for someone to fill the void, she appeared to seek me out, much to my embarrasment at first.<p>I dont know if many have heard a song by "Joanne" called "I Don't Know" but it really sums up how I feel right now.<p>It is a great song for all who must say goodbye but it burns.