He's leavin' ........today - Marriage Builders® Forums

Well, another twist in this crazy rollercoaster. Mrs. Rabbit called to 'invite' him to for another vacation. ..... says he finds it hard to resist her.... hmmm......guess there has been contact of sorts. He claims he has not seen her but who knows. Either way, I can not tolerate it any longer, I have asked him to leave. He says he does not know what to do but won't change the 1 means of contact he has with her (his work cell #), so I said you are choosing between your cell and your family, guess Nextel wins. H is back to being a ws or maybe he never stopped being a ws. New name for ws is Mr. Nextel..... I hate cell phones. I know they are just a vehical but it is a trigger for me. I am not crazy or hysterical, just very disappointed. I told him that he owes me for all that I have been paying for him. What a jerk I have been, I just paid to have his truck registered and his auto insurance. Everthing will be going out in the garage and I will try to move out by the end of this month. He is still in a state of I don't know, but I do. This family can not maintain contact with an OW. The anger burns within me to call her but she is such a crazy rabbit (& her trixs are for MM), that I am sure she will make something out of it. I am tired of being the one that doing the trying. My son deserves a father that tries his best. WS was dumb enough yesterday to say, you want to discuss everything by phone? How about divorce by phone, court appearance by phone, etc.??? Too dumb for a normal response so I just said, ok.... that shut him up. Thank goodness. The babble from his mouth was more than I could take. What I am here to ask for today, is strength and support. I know NDTW thinks he is right but I know that MB is more than just saving marriages, it is about helping people. In the long run I have become a better person. Sure after being battered around for a while by the WS and OW. I am sure there will be a few more of those battles. Now I will be more tactical. I may still come out on the losing end of it financially but I will try to survive emotionally. I fear the anxiety attacks will return. But I do feel calmer. So that is a good start. Thanks,
L.

Orchid -- soooo sorry.You have fought the good fight.
Look for some good plan B letters, and do the best plan B possible.We're all here for you.

Orchid,I'm sorry for your pain.I agree that every marriage should try to work out but there comes a time when it's too painful, destructive to continue. Your H has made that decision not to work with you. A boat with only one oar just goes round in circles.You have my full love and support. I can't think that anyone here would say that you should stay in such a painful, dysfunctional relationship.I hate cell phones, and email, btw. They just make it too easy...and the internet.

Hmmm... I sense you are not as calm as you think you are. Want to talk? I am at work, but can "chat" during lunch, or I can call you.It sounds like you need a friend and you MAY be reacting instead of sitting down and thinking calmly, giving it a few days to where off? I mean MOVING OUT??No, you're not going to do that. Yes, he can go, but you stay.Hugz,
HbH

{{{{{{{{Big Sis}}}}}}}}}}}We're here for you hun. Yes, strength and support is what we'll give you. You are strong and I believe Plan B is what you need to protect yourself. You have fought long and hard. An inspiration to many. You are strong and smart. I can't believe your H doesn't see that, and see what a wonderful woman he is treating so badly and possibly losing.Deep breath, and do what you need to do. Don't let this affect your health. k?? It's not worth it.

Holy crap. I am so sorry, Orchid.

Thanks for the instant support. You are all truly a great bunch!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I was going to stay home today, mope and put all his stuff in the garage but I decided to go to work. I have a lot of meetings to attend and other crazy work stuff, can't stop the world just because mine is coming to a halt....So life will go on and I have to get my son to school. Again I thank you for everthing. This truly a place of support when there is none in one's family. I am sure it will hit him all one day, whether I choose to be there when it does, we'll see. At this time, I think not. He is a nice man but has too much indecision. He has resigned himself to being too bad to care or fix. I just can't work with that anymore. Mahalo,
L.

{{{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}}I am so sorry that it has come to this. You have done all that you could do. Was really hoping and praying for you and your marriage. The prayers work for you because I know that as painful as this has been, and will be for a while still, you will be alright. Infact you will do wonderfully.Wish there was something I could do or say to make it all go away, but there is nothing. As for NDtW's comments... I believe he is bashing this forum so that he has an excuse to not work on his marriage. It a deflection technique. WS's are very good at that.You know that we are here for you. If you need to talk I'm always available.[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: zorweb ]

Oh Orchid, I'm so very sorry. You've done so much for your WH and your M. Life just is NOT fair sometimes. Those of us that are loving, caring people seem to get stomped on over and over. I pray that the stomping stops for you now. Did you say YOU were going to leave? Why not HIM? I'm praying for God to give you strength. I pray also that your health will not suffer this time....Take care and know that we are all here for you.MOM

L-Ever since I found out we have the same name (even spelled the same) I have had an interest in following your story.My heart goes out to you! My pain is right there with you! I gave my WH a plan B letter on Thursday and he moved out. This was after 8 months and 3 round with no stop of contact. Even after selling our home and moving to another state. I just can't do this to our kids anymore! I still don't want this to be forever, but I won't let him back this time until he is repentive and remorseful. He never has been the last three times. I won't let the kids and I go through this again! I hurt so bad for you right now! My heart aches! The one and only thing that has brought me any peace at all is turning to God and putting my life in his hands. I praise his name every day that I can take a deep breath and make the most of it.I haven't seen or heard from my WH since he left except for him showing up at 2 of my son's hockey games this weekend. I was angry at him at first for showing up, but I have decided that our son needs him to be there and I need to be the grown up and tuff out those situations.I still love him with all of my heart and want him back! He has actually been living in his truck! SAD! Why didn't he move in with the OW . . . funny thing is that I did call the OW and she told me that she has told my H that she wants nothing to do with him. She says she has told him this time and time again, but he keeps pursueing her. So now I am waiting for him to wake up and come out of the fog! Then we'll see where his heart is.My prayers are with you! This is such a frustrating time and none of us deserve the crap that we put up with! I just keep telling myself that my WH is not himself right now and pray to God that the man I know returns soon!God Bless You!
Le

Orchid - After all you've learned, struggled with and put up with...It goes to show that it is all about them and their selfishness..My prayers for you for the peace, love, and wisdom you deserve.Um, BTW, I don't think you're a jerk. I think you know how to treat the people you love.You made refernce to staying home and "moping." I do think that in this nonsense we need to take the time to feel what we feel and administer to ourselves.You deserve the best...DanWhat is it about the past few weeks? It seems like there's "something in the water..."[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Family Man ]

(((((((Orchid))))))))
You just amaze me! You are so strong, and you are standing up for yourself and your family.
I am so impressed at how you have been able to deal with your situation and yet provide so many others on this forum with such support. I am indebted to you for your caring and support of me in my current situation.Once again - ((((((((Orchid))))))))))).

Orchid,Don't play the rabbit's game. Be the tortoise. The tortoise always beats the rabbit. The tortoise has armor to protect her, the tortoise knows her goal and is not distracted from it.Your goal is your family. You are protecting your family from the rabbit. I don't think the rabbit can ever understand the concept of "family" and so can never beat you at that game. Don't call the rabbit. It is outside your protective shell, keep it there. We will be here for you always.Jeffers

{{{ Orchid }}}
So sorry!
You perhapos know that I get a little rushed in reading these things & I am not a rocket scientist to begin with, but when I first read that you were putting his stuff in the garage -- my brain thought GARBAGE! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I'm not the best speller either.
I have a sense that thorugh all our posting and in my case, also my special support group, which I have missed for the past three weeks now! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] , we have developed a little insensativity to this kind of thing ??
I had no idea of the details of your recovery, I assumed you were progressing, perhaps you did as well & in that of course only adds to the felt anxiety & a new D/D of sorts & we all know that feeling [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ! -- I have felt my recovery is progressing, but occasionally I have little reminders that it could all be a continuing saga of the same story, just different characters -- [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Like you said, I feel this forum helps us to deal with this perhaps a little better, but I know it is not at all easy.
This does not at all sound good, but you know I refer to the Dobson book all the time & I assume that you are familar with his book, but he has examples of dramatic turn arounds -- don't need false hope, but sometimes we need to take a step backwards of sorts in order to move forward.
You always have such good insights & I cannot think of anything to add that you would find new, but I know that when you are on the firing line, sometimes we loose sight of some of these guiding priniples.
A big time out from H is definately in order -- you do not want a cakeman I know & I will pray that you have the strength to do what you feel you must do.
You know you have lots of friends here!{{{{ Hugs & prayers to ya! }}}}}
HH

Cali had to come out of hiding to give you Hugzzz....you have been there for me so much. I am so sorry that you have to go through this....but I am struck by how much stronger you sound this time.Yes...life does have to go on...we have to learn and grow...and yes, it is unfortunate that some WSs take so long to 'figure' it out...Cali

Orchid,
I am just so very sorry your H is such a dope.{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}You are wonderful and don't forget it.

orchid, I am so sorry to hear that your H is been foolish again. I know that you are really hurting right now. I will be on later tonight if you need to talk or you can email me.Indy

Oh, Orchid. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] You deserve so, so, so much better, dear. He is crazy not to realize what he has in you.Talk to us through this, okay?Hugs,

Orchid, can I call you later??If not, please post to us and let us know how you are doing, k?HbH

OrchidSorry...Wish I had something better or more insightful to say...You deserve better...E

L - hold your head high and stay on that moral high ground. You have nothing to be ashamed of, you've done much more than reasonably necessary to show your alien what he's giving up. Your strength is defined by your decision to make him leave. Don't second guess this. If he wants to come back right away, make sure you take charge and make it on your terms.We're all here for you.WAT

Orchid,My prayers are with you. I agree with HurtbyHubby and MOM (and probably others), don't let him force you out of your home. You and your son deserve to have the stability of remaining in his home.Most of all, don't let WS steal your resolve, your sanity, and most importantly, your health. Take care of YOU and your son. Let your taker come out just a little and look out for #'s 1 & 2.Please take care.
Kev

Oh {{Orchid}}, your life is not coming to a halt it is just changing! You're better, you're stronger, you're wiser. You're equipped for change!It just doesn't become a reality to some WS, that they actually have something to lose, when BS Plan A's too well, for too long.You are the much more attractive option here. Your H has actually been telling you that quite loudly or he still wouldn't be sitting up on the fence. Actions speak louder than words. If rabbit was really so wonderful then he'd be with her, at least more than he's with you. That's not the case now, is it?He just has no motivation to choose. Plan B, acting 'as if", doing a 180, all change that. It changes things because you refuse to be a player in his fantasy world where he gets to have you and her. Fantasy can quick become a reality when you're faced with losing the other( and better) half of your illusion! Of course there are no guarantees he'll have the good sense to chose the marriage. There are not many guanrantees in life. But this is really about him and up to him , he has to choose the marriage. I've never gotten the impression from you Orchid that you want him if he really doesn't want to be there. Honestly, you've been through the ringer.Now he'll have the opportunity to miss all those things about you that have kept him sitting on the fence for sooo long. It will be interesting to see who's hard to resist then!You can do this Orchid!

Gosh, this just isn't fair.. You're a trooper, and we certainly value you so much here, even if WH doesn't. I have to believe he does somehow, but is just lost - I hope he finds himself before it's too late for his own future happiness, although that needn't be a concern of yours right now - do what's right for you, as has been said many times already.

So sorry you are in pain yet again Orchid, dont know what to say to make you feel better.
But you are a lovely kind person and your H just dosent realise what he stands to lose.
I so hope he wakes up soon.
Luv and hugs to you.
Liz

{{{{{{{{{{{{{ORCHID}}}}}}}}}}}}}}I really don't know what to say that hasn't already been said.You know if I had a MAJIC potion to fix this for you, I would. You are one smart, kind, intuitive, refreshing, GREAT lady!!!Your husband is being ONE BIG JERK right now, and I can't BEEELEEEEVE the "hold" Psycho-Woman is having on him!!!I am praying for you, but I KNOW YOU and your son WILL BE OK.Lots of love,
Lupo

Orchid,We all empathize with you and the pain you are feeling. I really do not have any advice put will post something from another board that may help you:
__________________________________________________
A time comes in your life when you finally get it... when, in the midst of all your fears and insanity, you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out - ENOUGH! Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on. And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder once or twice, you blink back your tears and begin to look at the world through new eyes. This is your awakening . You realize it's time to stop hoping and waiting for something to change... or for happiness, safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that neither of you is Prince Charming or Cinderella and that in the real world there aren't always fairy tale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you... and in the process a sense of serenity is born of acceptance. You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will always love, appreciate or approve of who or what you are ... and that's OK. They are entitled to their own views and opinions. And you learn the importance of loving and championing yourself... and in the process a sense of new found confidence is born of self-approval. You stop complaining and blaming other people for the things they did to you (or didn't do for you) and you learn that the only thing you can really count on is impermanence and unexpected . You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say and that not everyone will always be there for you and that it's not always about you. So, you learn to stand on your own and to take care of yourself... and in the process a sense of safety and security is born of self- reliance. You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties.... and in the process a sense of peace and contentment is born of FORGIVENESS. You realize that much of the way you view yourself, and the world around you, is as a result of all the messages and opinions that have been ingrained into your psyche. And you begin to sift through all the junk you've been fed about how you should behave, how you should look, how much you should weigh, what you should wear, what you should do for a living, how much money you should make, what you should drive, how and where you should live, who you should marry, the importance of having and raising children, and what you owe your parents, family, and friends.
You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view. And you begin reassessing and redefining who you are and what you really stand for. You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to discard the doctrines and values you've outgrown, or should never have bought into to begin with and in the process you learn to go with your instincts. You learn that it is truly in giving that we receive. And that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" looking for your next fix. You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated ideals of a bygone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build a life. You learn that you don't know everything, it's not your job to save the world and that you can't teach a pig to sing. You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to say NO. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that martyrs get burned at the stake. Then you learn about love. How to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving and when to walk away.

You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would have them be. You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes. And you learn that alone does not mean lonely. You also stop working so hard at putting your feelings aside, smoothing things over and ignoring your needs. You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK.... and that it is your right to want things and to ask for the things you want... and that sometimes it is necessary to make demands. You come to the realization that you deserve to be treated with love, kindness, sensitivity and respect and you won't settle for less. And you learn that your body really is your temple. And you begin to care for it and treat it with respect. You begin to eat a balanced diet, drink more water, and take more time to exercise. You learn that being tired fuels doubt, fear, and uncertainty and so you take more time to rest. And, just as food fuels the body, laughter fuels our soul. So you take more time to laugh and to play. You learn that, for the most part, you get in life what you believe you deserve... and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that wishing for something to happen is different from working toward making it happen. More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need direction, discipline and perseverance. You also learn that no one can do it all alone...and that it's OK to risk asking for help. You learn the only thing you must truly fear is the greatest robber baron of all: FEAR itself. You learn to step right into and through your fears because you know that whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear is to give away the right to live life on your own terms. And you learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom. You learn that life isn't always fair, you don't always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people. On these occasions you learn not to personalize things. You learn that God isn't punishing you or failing to answer your prayers. It's just life happening. And you learn to deal with evil in its most primal state-the ego.
You learn that negative feelings such as anger, envy and resentment must be understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you. You learn to admit when you are wrong and to build bridges instead of walls. You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we take for granted, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about: a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a long hot shower. Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself , and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never, ever settle for less than your heart's desire .

And you hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind. And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting, and to stay open to every wonderful possibility.
Finally, with courage in your heart and God by your side you take a stand, you take a deep breath, and you begin to design the life you want to live as best you can...
__________________________________________________
God Bless you and your family and especially your WH for he needs the most prayers.

Hi,I can't begin to properly thank you all for your support. I sit at work almost in tears of joy for your support. Ok, I will stop crying and try to smile [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .....You have inspired me to continue on. Feelings of suicide and despair are not welling up like I thought they would. Hm..... level of acceptance? I think so. You all have individually written so much, I truly value all your words and will read them again tonight to get me through what I already know will be the 'crying time'. H just returned my call (I need him to sign insurance papers separating our auto accounts), I have done my part 3 months ago. H says he has a headache, I said I have a heartache and asked if he was at 'his friend's place', he said he has no friends. Don't know what that means and right now don't really care. I have a lot of work on my desk (as always) and having to deal with a real idiot right here at work. Excuse me for this next statement 'guys' but right now 'men' are not my favorite people to deal with, especially stupid ones!!!! LOL! I am trying and not taking my anger out on anyone except to who it is due. I notified my son's teacher and he gave me a big hug. He is such a nice man (don't worry, he is older and engaged to a real nice lady and he is over 6' tall, I felt like a little kid). He said he would be there for me and our son. I asked he be available in case my son needs to talk. He said he would. He told me to get support ASAP, I told him I have it here at MB, he smiled and said good. So that is where I am right now. Thanks so much for caring. Let no one tell you MB is not a good place to be. It just may not be a right fit if your attitude stinks but with that type of attitude there are a lot of places where a person like that won't fit!!! L.

Orchid:Obviously by all the responses (especially those who I haven't seen post in weeks) you have many here at MB that care about you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I know how hard it is to stay strong, but I have found out in the past 10 months that the "strength" we (BS) show really scares the WS.Our co-dependent behavior (I'm not saying you are, but most of us are in some way) only seems to enable the WS.Be strong for you & your son & you will be amazed at how others start to treat you. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I hope the "fog" totally leaves & you can rebuild..For now thoughIt's all about YOU !!!Thanks for all your words of wisdom.Lisa

[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] double damn [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

(((((((((((((((Orchid))))))))))))))))))Love and a big serving of healing light for you, hon.Why can't they see what they have? [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Jacky

I am so sorry Orchid!I was hoping and praying that things would be going better for you and your family.If I can be of any support...please feel free to talk. I can't believe these guys--how could they give their families up...for what? The devil really is getting a hold in this society....that is my only explanation. My hope and prayer for you is for a better future. One with happiness and laughter and good times. You definitely deserve it....Pat

Orchid,My prayers and thoughts for you and your son. The continued betrayals hurt so much. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Know that so many care that you are suffering so much.....Desiree

Orchid I am so sorry, you have tried so very hard, you deserve better than this. Don't let that WH of yours do this to you, let him go for now, and see what the future brings (I know easier said than done) You are a good person and derserve to be treated with respect and love. ((((((Orchid))))) Love Sally

Orchid,I am sorry you are hurting and can feel your pain. You have posted to me and I do thank you for all your help. Stay strong girl. That will scare the hell out of him.
SLH

Hi, Thanks again for all your support. I have read everyone and am 'finally' at a loss as to how to repay all for your support. HBH, Faith1 & peach, I am leaving for home now. WS is there. Don't be afraid to leave a message. He called to ask what to make for dinner. This is a new one. Usually he heats up soup for himself when I am not there. Hm.... Not sure what tonight will have. I will try to call both of you on my cell on the way home. Thanks,
L.

Hi big sis,
I'm on ICQ tonite if you need me. Maybe you and H can talk. maybe he'll wake up and you 2 can "clear the air", and he can see what a wonderful blessing you are. Show him this thread if he'll look at it.Hang in there. You are soooo strong and I have sooooooo much respect for you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'm here if you need me.
Faith1[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]

Well things look a bit different for you. Haven't been on MB for various reasons. You are such a great person and your son has such a beautiful (little) mother. I will pray for you, pray for your son, pray for your husband. I will talk to you this weekend if OK. Things are rough right now, but you seem to be quite a bit stronger. God can really help us cope with heartbreaks, and etc. You have planned A quite rightly. Now is the time to plan B. I agree that you should not move out, give him a plan B letter and let him move out. After all, you are there for your son and he hasn't been the best father. I was told that if H doesn't want to move out, then get a lawyer. That is what I will have to do when the time comes, if it comes. Marriage Builders is a good program, but when one does not follow the plan it ends up with separation or divorce. Obviously your H didn't plan A according to the plan. Your H did what he wanted to do and there is no way that a marriage can survive when one is working on the marriage and the other is doing their own thing. I know, I have been in plan A for a while, and I still don't know what is happening. Just I know that my Love-bank is not filling up and building, so there will only be one outcome. Remember the lemon meringue pie, still would like to make a pie with you from your fresh lemons in your backyard. Maybe God will provide us with an outcome acceptable for all of us to enjoy the togetherness and eating. Maybe not this year, but maybe in the next year or two.Orchid, you are in my prayers, my H told me about your thread, and the desire to give you my concern, caring and love is there. Remember that there are the people here to help. I can't post much, but will once in a while. Hopefully talk to you this weekend. Take care, and giving you a BIG(((((((((HUGGGGGGG)))))))).

Orchid - Lot's of hugs!!!!!! I wasn't going to even get online today, but I'm glad I did. I too am so sorry that things took such a turn for the worse. You have been such a great support for me in the short time that I've been here. You are a wonderful example. And I'll be praying for you andyour family. I have learned that God really will only give us what we can handle, and will always make the situation turn out for our good. Hopefully you'll be able to find the miracle in this one, even though it might be hard. Stay strong. K

O,I'm sorry, Honey. You holding up okay? I know you're probably not reading this right now, hopefully you're talking with H.I swear I don't remember signing up for this very long rollercoaster ride, and I know you don't either. You're so strong, hopefully all the MB principals you've learned and applied will get you thru this DIP in the coaster.You're in my prayers this evening.Jo

Hello O, IMHO, this is just another downward dip in the rollercoaster. H is still wavering...unfortunately you do not deserve this treatment. Rise above it. You don't have to leave your home. Let HIM walk out. My money is on the fact that he won't. BUT...you're a survivor. And you will get through this.And we will be here to help you. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

hey hun! sorry I missed you. I'm headed to beddy-bye, but I'm here if you need me, k? I don't mind at all... anytime.... You have my number. let us know how you are doing tonite or tomorrow. CALL me if you need me, k ?{{{{{{{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Orchid Just want you to know I'll say a prayer for strength and wisdom for you.We care.
God Bless You
TnT

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
...I was going to stay home today, mope and put all his stuff in the garage but I decided to go to work...can't stop the world just because mine is coming to a halt....
<hr></blockquote>Hi Orchid,
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Well, noone can say that you haven't gone way beyond what might seem reasonable to some who would have dropped the dead weight by now...Your life is not coming to a halt! If anything, there is a new chapter opening with all your dreams awaiting to come true. Keep the faith!And yes! We are your cyber family! We support you and care about you and will be here for you! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] My prayers and thoughts are with you. Don't worry, everything will work itself out, especially the things you fear the most! Wait and see! I once heard that 90-95% of what we worry about the most doesn't even happen and you know what? It's SO TRUE!!!

Orchid,
My sympathy for you and I think H has to learn and live with his choice. Some men think with stuff between their legs instead of their brain & heart. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Aloha Orchid,
Maika'i 'ole huh! I'm so sorry to hear that. I don't know what else to say but I'm here to listen and offer my cyber hug for a friend like you. {{{{{{{{{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}I hope you do well today.

I can't find words to express my deep sorrow for this...You can always say YOU did your best...

Hi, Orchid,
I rarely come to GQ, and so glad I did today because I had no idea you were going through this! You have been so supportive and helpful to me -I am sending you good vibes and hugs!! I am so sorry you are going through this - as you know, I am feeling similar to how you are feeling - I was ready to Plan B, but Steve H. talked me into giving it a little more time this a.m. in our session. Our H's are both 'stupid'!!!
Please know you and your son are in my thoughts and prayers...hang in there! You are a good person who deserves so much more!!
Hugs,
S

Hi,Thanks for all your support. Faith called me twice today to make sure I was ok. I had another bad day at work. Needy/easily frustrated men are not on my good list right now..... (H & boss) both were on my bad side. Funny how these guys can get you all riled up, then they feel guilty since it was all for nothing. If they would just think before they go off on a tangent, it would not be soo bad. Go figure, H had to make arrangements for his truck rental but has no money. Asks then when I don't just jump in (after all he was planning to leave), he gets all distraught. Well hey, it's his problem right? I thought so. I made arrangements in the background just in case and then true to form he calls up claiming to be soo stressed he is almost in tears. Ok, at the same time I am dealing with a boss who wants me to act like I work in another dept and help them work out a client issue. No help just dump and L will fix it. Then has the nerve to yell at me on my method of fixing. 9 lousy hours of work and no appreciation. It's a wonder those 2 men are still alive....... was wondering if Mrs. Bobbit was available for hire..... oops bad thought. Ok, after they get themselves in a pickle and have time to think, L's fixes don't look so bad after all. Hey I don't do miracles, it just looks like it....... After they both calm down, they accept whatever I have come up with. After rejecting the exact same options!!! Go Figure. Still I was able to keep a fairly cool head. I even sat in on about 3 other meetings and difused about 20 other issues today. This is not bragging just reality. I think when I focused I also try to clean house at work...... low tolerance level for stupidity right now!!!I listened to both their gripes (H & boss) and just said, ok..... then went away and when they cooled down, they saw it my way. Did I just repeat myself? Sorry.Anyway, I have to admit knowing you guys were all out there and that I could post later, helped me make it through the day. OOOO said: Maika'i 'ole (bad) and yes it was bad. Maybe it will get better, I believe it will at least for me. So to all of you: Mahalo kau kokua (thank you for your support) OOOO did I get that right?
I live in CA and getting too haolefied. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Take care,
L.[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]

{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}}}}}}Wow. I am sorry I didn't find this thread earlier. I am very sorry because I know how hard all this is- but you are strong and I know you are doing what is best for you and your son right now, and you are going to make it through this.I agree with don't move out (unless the reason is you really want to or can't afford to stay), it will be so much better for your son to have as little instability in his life right now as you can possibly bring him. Staying in your home would be so much better for him right now.Consider me among those who are praying and thinking of you and here if you need me, but since so many are I guess I will stand to the back of the crowd. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] NY
mackley@twcny.rr.com

Hi NY,Thanks for your support. There is always room for a friend and there is no one in the back all of you good people are right up here in my heart. Helping me heal. Much hugz,
L.

L,We ain't no stinkin Haole's!!!So, what's the scoop Hon, is H still leaving?From your post, sounds like he's back peddaling ... I dunno, O. I think your H hasn't suffered any real consequences so he keeps giving us repeat performances. I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated you must be.After so many ups and downs L, I think you might want to consider having H move and implementing a solid Plan B. Let him and OW really die their natural death this time, but don't Plan B to expect that, Plan B for you and your son's sanity and need for peace of mind. This can't go on forever, it's going to take it's toll on you, Hon.I'm sorry you're having to go thru this yet again. Lor and BrambleRose would be the people I'd look to, seems they've gone thru similar.Best to you .... and hang in there.Love,
Jo[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

<<was wondering if Mrs. Bobbit was available for hire..... oops bad thought. >>did someone mention me.really listen to Jo, she said what I wanted to say. Don't do what I did & let H keep walking over you & still have him leave for OW, however my H never made any bones he had feelings for me, it was always for the boys

Hi Jo and Sing,Yes you are both right. I am listening and learning. Since I seem to have found my leveling point (OW must be out of my life), then I have settled much better. Which is why I believe I am not shedding as much tears. I have been mentally preparing myself for this. Which is why I don't post my stuff in recovery. Plan B is still way to handy for me and within my grasp. I am keeping an eye out and getting ready to move either way. So thanks for not giving up on me. You are all great and nope 'no dumb haole's here!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL!!!L.

Orchid,I'm finally able to sit down at the computer for a bit and write you a note.Hope you know that I am pulling for you. You've been through so much and don't deserve one ounce of it. I hope all the pains stops for you very soon. I've a question. Did you say that you bailed your H out on the truck rental thing? Let him flop on his own... Better yet, tell him to let Mrs. Rabbit save his behind. Keep your engery for yourself and your son.Did today have a strange quality for you? It almost sounds like that in your post. Almost like you are on the edge of giddy. Are you somehow feeling relieved even while you are feeling the pain?{{{{{{Orchid}}}}}}

Hi Z,No I don't like feeling pain. I think I am not feeling the pain like before. Been there done that kind of thing. However, when under stress, I tend to pull back. From those character studies I had to attend years ago, I found that under stress I resort to a fairly laid back type of person, more relaxed out of necessity. Otherwise, I would blow a fuse. Funny, I have always been that way. See for me, I have given the stress to H. He did go to limits today. This is a man who would rather die than cry. Yet today he was there, outside my office crying. He so much wanted and needed to take on this job but everywhere he turned there was a major road block. Yes, I ended up bailing him out but not completely. He is having to spend tonight in his vehicle with 3000 lbs of sulpheric acid in the back of this van. He can not affort a hotel and barely enough for gas and food. It is rough, but he will learn that he can survive. His family have this kamakazi demented state, they like to inflict pain on themselves and in turn give it to those closet to them. I have been the recipient of that for years. No more. I have learned to give it back. So while he did get his vehicle, it was after we went on a harrowing morning of living on the edge. He knows it and actually has been calling and speaking quite nicely. I am not ready to say sure come on back. I am taking it cautiously. He knows he has to show his value now. Mine is already out there and documented. H asked me last night if I felt any guilt. I said no and he agreed, then he said his issues were because of himself not his family. I remained silent, my mouth had a 1000 things to say but I kept my trap shut. The only words he heard were his. I believe that made an impression. He then said tonight that we should not make decisions in anger. He is right but I was not the angry one, just the fed up one. There is a difference you know. So Z, I appreciate your keeping watch. Tell STL I said hi.hugs,
L.

Orchid, redhat are you guys out there? I am. Read A/B. Ride's gotten vertical now, no longer the horizontal up and down roller coaster. What is with this crap being in the water now that our H's or W 's are losing touch w/all relity and doing things that even an anacephalic would know not to do.....Arrrrrrrgh. Am going to gym tomorrow to find a kickboxing or boxing dummy.

Orchid, I really can only say that you have proved what kind of lady that you are by going through this and still being there to help me and others. I am honored to call you and all of the others here on this site friends. I am sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to you. I just got back from the ER. Indy

Hi Orchid. Glad to hear you are doing well. Just wanted to add that you know it's not your job or responsibility to teach your H anything, right?Just wanted to make sure. Sounds more and more like you are trying to make him see his mistakes and TEACH him a lesson, rather than just doing what Orchid needs (him out of your life until he's fixed his issues and ready to work on the marriage).Just seems like you are going through more hell than you have to...Also, it sounds like you are strong right now and I believe that if you stay strong you will indeed wait this one out and not take H back until he is serious this time...But, you are really too nice, and I have a feeling that strength will falter as time goes on. Post here and keep that strength up, k? You need to stay the way you are now. An oak tree. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] As for your boss, kick him in the gonads. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] No seriously, just try to ignore him whenever possible.Good luck.
HbH

Hey, Orchid-You are in my thoughts and prayers, neighbor. I emailed you yesterday (on your yahoo account listed in email exchange) with my phone number, feel free to use it, okay? You sound okay, hang in there, and give your son a hug from me, and have him give you one from me, too.

Orchid - you rock!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I understand completely about the few tears thing - with the discovery of OW back in the picture just a couple of weeks ago, I had a strange feeling of resolve come over me. I was angry, hurt, upset, all those things, but at the same time I was calm and cool. I just knew I wasn't going to go through any more crap, and that I did NOT, did NOT deserve this. So, I was prepared to do what was necessary, and thought for sure H would want to go, however, he had already decided that he needed to completely sever contact with OW for us to truly have a chance. (Wow)Anyway - didn't mean to hijack your thread and spew all my stuff out, but I think we get to a point where we realize we've done just about everything possible. His issues are his issues and I won't be dragged through the mud trying to help him through it!! I need to hold on to who I am and not be sucked away by his "searching" for his feelings etc etc blah blah blahStay strong!

Hi, Orchid,
You are being so strong!!!
I'm with you - have often considered the Lorena Bobbitt method of taking care of 'problems' - ha!
(sorry, guys!)
Hang in there,
S

Orchid,
Check A/B for a first draft of your poem. give me a professional critique? Hope at least it is worth a chuckle...All who are familiar w/your story may like it too. Feeling wierd today. Last night was soo strange. H called today and was very nice. Not sure what part comes next. Feeling like a decision will be coming soon. Either he comes back, or I leave for good. Will do A until all strength gone. Afraid I'm a gettin there. Am beyond words at the Orlando betrayal. Truly afraid that a few days from now, I will suddenly explode from unvented anger and utter repulsion at the huge lie which smacked me in the face yesterday. Oh well, I am thankful that at the least, I DIDN'T DO THAT AND CAN ALWAYS WAKE UP AND LOOK AT MYSELF IN THE MIRROR.

Hi all, Again you have provided me support. I thank you all for that. Wish I could hug you all. Hbh, I will not enable him. What I do is for my family's protection and future. Unfortunately it is often something the WS benefits from also. Sometimes it is hard to draw the line. WE will see what he is like tonight, he is on his way home. I will try harder to do the right thing. Again I am now requiring action on his part. NO more passiveness on his part. Alberta yep, I feel the same way. The tears are pretty dried up. What a difference a year makes!?!?!?!? I couldn't post from work, still too much junk. Guess there more of those kind of people who are just too dumb to be at work. I had to spend part of today again, explaining the same thing 3 times. Each person said they understood yet related a totally different story to the next. Mangement included!!!! Don't play grapevine with that bunch!! I had witnesses though, so I am not crazy nor making a big thing out of nothing. I guess them wasting my time isn't important. Rap, I will check my e-mail and call you laters. K? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Just got home and need to start dinner. Thanks again,
L.[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]

Talk about support, I'd like to share this poem from GAPeach from the plan a/b site. <blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Not peachy in GA:
Dedicated to all Who Deal With psyched-out OW or OM:Oh what, oh what is a psychomasseuse?
like the name of a wild creature out on the loose.Having a brain that is tiny,
With what few thoughts there filled with muck,
she seeks married men with whom she can test her luck.
What did you think I would put there,another word which sounds like muck?Not yet papertrained, is this psychomassuese,
spends her time phoning this man's long, tortured wife,
The greedy psychomasseuse doesn't lead much of a life.Oh what is this thing the psychomasseuse will now do?
Why she is soiling that poor man's underpants with lots of dog poo?
Now to the telephone, the poor creature goes,
to spread phony lies and add to a wife's woes.Oh pyschomasseuse, poor psychomasseuse, what an unfortunate wretch of a creature,
like watching Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, a late night movie feature. No scientist alive knows how long she can gestate,
never been diagnosed, probably just something bad that she ate.
Never knows if or when she is pregnant; has to be told that by her date.
Oh the horrors if this creature should actually EVER procreate...NOTE: I am not quite finished with it yet, and do hope that you all find it funny, you will if you know of her trials. Psychomasseuse is the new name for Mrs. Pycho Babble Rabbit. Oh, and I am no poet. When there are no more tears, you just laugh. Or try to.<hr></blockquote>We had a nice chat last night and I didn't realize how much of my story she captured in this poem. So if you can enjoy this little laugh with me...go ahead. I did!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Thanks Peach!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] L.

Glad you enjoyed it! I still am reeling after last night's situation. Wavering between hope and ultimate betrayal. I have still not heard from and don't think I will hear from h before going to bed tonight. H read my sweet email I sent him, although I did describe the initial circumstances of our date last night as having been difficult for me, as I found OW's baggage tags. I guess I am truly unable to accept hope as a reality until H decides to come back and OW is finally banished. She is like a bad case of herpes--keeps popping up especially during stress.

Nothing got better for me until I absolutely concluded that we could not stay married. I became convinced it was over, started visiting divorce attorneys, and basically decided whatever happens, happens, I will survive and recover.After that, as life seems to have it, WH started to think maybe getting divorced wasn't such a good idea. It was like I had to completely give up (and for me, give it to God) in order to get something back.Maybe it will be the same with you . . . - WLE

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by WingsLikeEagles:
Nothing got better for me until I absolutely concluded that we could not stay married- WLE<hr></blockquote>That's exactly how my reconciliation happened. I found out about the internet EA and I just said 'YOU'RE OUTTA HERE!'and made plans to sell the house and move close to my sister. I had no intention of continuing this marriage. That shook him up pretty bad and led to our reconciliation. I agree with you that sometimes just giving up is exactly what it takes to shake someone up. It worked for me.

So I am offline for a few days (trouble with our internet service provider.. they kept on dropping our i.p. off of the system! augh!)... and this is what I come back to!!!((((((((((( Orchid )))))))))))I am so sorry to hear that your H is putting you through all of this again. But it's wonderful to see how much you've learned and are incorporating into yourself. As much as emotions are involved in this whole A stuff... I've found (looking back of course) that they are such a waste of energy at times. I do hope you continue to use that energy to continue to better yourself. You've done so wonderfully already. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You've known there was continued contact all along, haven't you? Or at least you STRONGLY suspected it? Damn him for putting you through this again! AUGH!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] I'll be online tomorrow night, and I'll turn on icq too... so if you want to chat, I'll be around after 8 or 9 pm my time (eastern standard).... now that our internet is up and running properly again, I can commit to it too! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Take care,
Karen

Orchid,Boy can I relate to the problem of the "rumor game" at your work. I finally cured most of it by communicating by email almost all of the time. Even if I have a conversation with someone, I'll follow it up with a summary email. That way I have a record of what I said. Really made my life easier. And now that everyone at work knows that I keep a copy of every email I send/receive (I have an archive that goes be 3 years)the people who used to try to play games with me and tried to make me look bad, have cleaned up their act. All I had to do was show up with copies of email at a couple of meetings where someone thought they'ed fry me in front of management. My life is a lot easier these days.Yes, I know I sound paranoid. But I work in and almost all male engineering environment. Many of the men do not like having a female boss or even coworker. The guys are dog-eat-dog to each other. They can be worse with the woman. Hope things are going ok with you tonight. You've been on my mind all day. Please keep us posted.Z

Orchid, I was just wondering if you had that talk with your H?Indy

Hi Indy,Nope not yet. Is the suspense killin ya??? Me too. H was sent on 2 other jobs this evening and probably won't be home before mid night. Something about the 49er game..... guess it was better than the Raiders game, I didn't watch either so I dont know. He usually is delivering tapes of those games. Don't worry, I am not going to let this rest until it is discussed and I will be back here later. Thanks for carrying.
L.

Orchid, Yes, it is killing me. He has had alot of time to think. I just hope that it goes well.Indy

Ok, I'll make you a deal Indy. You go have a talk with my H and I'll have a nice chat with your W. Tell me what you want and I'll say it. I can't LB her since we're not married and same for you when you talk to my H. OK?!?!?!? LOL [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Oh that would be way tooo easy. I don't want you to worry. I will be ok. Alright? You are like my one of the younger brothers I never had. I worry about you but that's my nature and it is way too late to teach this 'ol dog' new tricks. You on the other hand are still young and full of energy. Save your worrying for your family. I will definitely let you know when I need that kick in the pants. How big are your shoes? He he he !!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Thanks soo much. L.

Orchid, Just wanted to see how things were going. I am sorry that I didn't get back to you sooner. I would love for you to talk to my W. I would talk to your H if you needed me too.Indy

Orchid
I'm so sorry for your pain. You have certainly done everything in your power to save your M.
We are all here for you. You are a loving and caring person and truly didn't deserve any of this. I know it will be hard but you will get through this. You have helped so many here at MB and we will be here for you. I pray for you and your son.
Hugs and prayers,
C

Orchid, How are you doing today? I am going to guess that you haven't talked to your H yet. Have you? If you have please tell me how it went.Indy

Hi Indy,Had the talk....part 2 & hopefully the conclusion will be tonight. I am turning into a pessimist. He apologized for every starting down the A path wished he could turn back the hands of time. Now he feels that he may be too far gone. I have heard this before. He says this past 2 weeks he has grown to care more for me now. But when I ask for all cutoff from OW, he walks away (says he has something to do). Well that is how he trys to get away from talking. He even said he would leave things as they are. Conflict avoider you see. So there is that still unanswered question. At least in my mind. Even though he wants to be there for me and son, I am getting fed up. Not sure where I need to be next but moving out is still a reoccuring thought. Words and actions need to be together. I still feel like there is limbo land. He says he is afraid of OW but had a conversation with her just last week. Before all the money issues I dealt with. He knows I have been there to pull him out of these crazy jams and won't be doing it much longer. Very stressful for me. On top of all the work junk. Crap.....throw them all away and start from scratch. I just want to run away from it all. Can't though. too much responsibility. Ya know? I realize my situation is not as critical as others. So much more going on out there. Gotta go back to work. I have my crew working OT again. H has son with him. Father/son bonding time is good. Hope they are not just watching TV. L.

Orchid,
Take care of yourself, k? I can tell your energy level is getting low, and this is a stressful time of year. Don't let H take you back down the roller coaster, k?Also... just a thought here... I know you are tired, but if you are not in Plan B, do your berry bestest [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] to Plan A that guy. He should already see what a wonderful woman he is letting slip through his fingers. And of course, like I said, take care of YOUUUUUU.Hang in there sis. We're all here for you!Faith1

Ding, ding, ding. Your H is back to avoiding things and not committing to no contact with OW?Spell it out for him Orchid. I don't care, I know you are not supposed to threaten him, but in your case...He has crossed your boundary. Stop extending your boundary to appease your H.If he avoids you tonight, or will not commit to everything you need - HE'S OUTTA THERE.You give him too many chances as it is. HE KNOWS WHAT HE HAS TO DO for God's sake. The only reason he's not doing it is because you are not keeping your boundaries and you are letting him get away with it.I'm sorry Orchid, you need a kick in the butt today. I know you are trying to be strong, but he has taken you down this path too many times. You are a good and wonderful person Orchid, you don't need his crap, and OW's crap.I do hope your talk went well last night (or is it tonight... not sure when you posted). Please let us know how you made out.I care about you, Orchid, and I am sick and tired of this man hurting you!!HbH

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:
Ding, ding, ding. Your H is back to avoiding things and not committing to no contact with OW?Spell it out for him Orchid. I don't care, I know you are not supposed to threaten him, but in your case...He has crossed your boundary. Stop extending your boundary to appease your H.If he avoids you tonight, or will not commit to everything you need - HE'S OUTTA THERE.You give him too many chances as it is. HE KNOWS WHAT HE HAS TO DO for God's sake. The only reason he's not doing it is because you are not keeping your boundaries and you are letting him get away with it.I'm sorry Orchid, you need a kick in the butt today. I know you are trying to be strong, but he has taken you down this path too many times. You are a good and wonderful person Orchid, you don't need his crap, and OW's crap.I do hope your talk went well last night (or is it tonight... not sure when you posted). Please let us know how you made out.I care about you, Orchid, and I am sick and tired of this man hurting you!!HbH<hr></blockquote>

Orchid, I am glad to hear that you had your talk with him. I have seen that you have posted that you are thinking about leaving with the kids. I would suggest that you don't. If it does come to that point, and I hope that it doesn't. I would make him pack his stuff and leave. Why should you have to go through all of that? If he doesn't want the marriage I would make him leave. This will keep some stability for your son. Indy

Hi, Thanks for the kick.....start! H is out of town this weekend (job work related & has a class to take in that area - also work related). OW is not with him.We had a brief discussion yesterday and I shared my thoughts of how looking over all that has happened here is what I saw:1. OW makes many promises/claims:
a. to send H to school
b. to give H money
c. claims to have bought plane ticket
d. claimed to be prego 3 times - no proof
& no baby
e. bought shirt for H - gave it to her hubby
(btw - H even tried it on - then her H
took it ?!?!?)
f. claimed to be buying a motorcycle (h wants
one real bad)
g. promised to buy H a motorcycle
h. now wants to go and buy property with H
i. set H up with his own internet business
j. promised to make him a sucessful man
k. promised to make him healthier with her
than with his family2. H's side -
a. talked about buying her Jeep
b. talked about going into busienss with her
c. talked about buying a motorcycle
d. talked about moving into the mountains far
away from everyone
e. spent family money (thousands of dollars)
on their relationship (moved out, 3 day
vacation, motel 6 type sex escapades,
cell phone bills, etc.)
f. went to jail for domestic violence charge
(later dropped - but you can't erase that
it happened). Minor compared to most but
still traumatic.
g. loss of work
h. suicidal
i. relationship with God, broken.
j. physical ailments due to stress. 3. What I observed/did and suffered:
a. received and saw many lies
b. lost lots of money in interests, nsf fees
work time, etc.
c. suffered anxiety attacks & even suicidal
bouts.
d. mental effects on son, family and friends.
e. gave H money to bail his but out.
f. 2 miscarriages (1 last year and 1 this year)
g. tremendous strain on work, homelife, etc.
h. relationship with God strained.
i. physical ailments due to stress.I guess there could be more..... Looking back I see a lot of talk and nothing to show. On H's side I see some talk and lots of money flowing out the door (family money - not extra money). I share this with him and said that I no longer am willing to provide H with home and support if he allows contact with OW and is not honest with me. Yes, I have said this before. My boundaries have not moved, just the enforcement of them. H agreed. H got angry at me hung up and then when he simmered down, we continued our discussion. He was in the middle of getting ready for work. The point he appears to be 'finally' learning is that when he stresses he is now realizing he is not the only one stressing. For some crazy reason he thought he was the only one stressing. Crazy or what? More like stupid..... but it is a learning point. See how the fog makes you stupid? Cloggs up the brain, kills the calculator. So we are at this point. No proof or reassurance from H about ending his relationship with OW (he has not seen her but did speak with her on the phone last week), then no more support from me and we separate. The onis is on him. He agreed. L.

Oh, Orchid,
Your issues ARE as critical as anyone else's! I for one, and oviously alot of others care very much about you. You were the first person to respond to me and my pain when I came here, and I have noticed these many monthes, that you are often the first to show concern and a caring shoulder to cry on!
I really wish there was more I could say to help you. Sometimes life feels like quicksand...

Orchid,
Yes, your issues are just as critical as everyone else's!!! You have been such a support and help for me and I can't tell you how much it has meant to me!
I don't have very good advice, because, as you know I have also had several discoveries of contact. For now my H says it is over, and Steve says I need to 'go with that' till proven otherwise, etc. I know that if there is contact again, he is 'outta here'... Maybe you should consider sticking to your boundaries, as I will if it happens again, and consider Plan B. I am so sorry you are having to go through this!!!!
Many hugs,
S

Orchid,
Even on MB, not all marriage is worth saving. If you can not be happy M and no willingness of SO to work on it then I think we should let it go. Give it to The Lord and you have done your part. H will have to learn his mistake and hope you will still be there. In the past do you ever give H a plan B ?.

Orchid - I went through your recent posts with the same questions Redhat has.To me, you've worked very, very hard. But the patterns haven't changed (on his end). I would suggest it's time for something different. You just deserve better treatment.Twyla's post about why and when she went to plan B may apply; I'll see if I can find it.