what & when do I tell my husband - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I've been married 2 years, but have recently fallen in love with another man....And I've started to have an affair with him (going on for 6 months). I feel this other man is my soul mate, the love of my life. Looking back, I feel I married my best friend (friends for about 10 years)..I love my husband, but we have no passion...I look at him and see my friend. We never had that "can't keep our hands off each other" stage. Now that I'm experiencing what I am with this other man, I know this is what it should feel like. I feel alive for the first time. I feel happy. I feel that this is what people look for all their lives....I've talked to my husband about what I'm lacking in emotional needs...what I figured out this other person gives me..And he's really tried, but it does nothing for me. No matter what he does, I can't get the other man out of my head & my feelings of love don't increase for my husband. I've tried to stop seeing the other man, but can go no longer than a couple of weeks (because I'm miserable) & I break down & contact him. By the way, he feels the same way about me...and he is single & available.I want to do the right thing. I'm not ready to give up on my marriage...because I believe marriage is a one time thing....but I can't even be intimate with my husband anymore. It's been 5 months since we've had any intimacy. He thinks it's because I'm depressed...when in actuality, I'm depressed because of the situation..that I've allowed myself to fall in love with someone else & now I don't think I can get back the feelings that I once had for my husband. Do I tell my husband everything? Do we need to be "on the same page" to fix this? I keep hoping that his efforts will win back my heart..that I'll suddenly remember how much I love him & that he never needs to know. I don't want to hurt him. If there is a way to fix things without him knowing the whole truth, isn't that best? Why should he have to be hurt with this? Or do I assume that since I'm been trying to make it work this way for 6 months, that it's not going to work & I have to tell him? Is it possible to not tell him? Is it just because I haven't totally cut myself off from the other man...and maybe if I can do this, my feelings will come back without him ever having to know. I'm so afraid that I'll tell him & he'll walk out the door & that only by seeing him walk out the door will my heart know that he was really the one I love & that this other man is just a "newness" thing? But our relationship did not get physical until recently, so I'm 99% sure it's the real thing..and not just a lust thing.My heart tells me that the other man is the one for me. But I've always been a logical person...this is why to this point, I haven't said anything to my husband. I keep hoping to fix my marriage...and haven't made the leap to leave him for this other man....I'm staying for a reason, right??When is the right time to tell? Is there a way to make it less painful when I do tell? Is it best to tell while seeing a counselor?I'm really lost here....Any suggestions would be most helpful. I'm so depressed that I'm sick all the time...And I not only don't want to be intimate with my husband, but I can't...."physically, my body won't allow me to get turned on"...and I feel as though I'm cheating on the other man!! It's to a point where I need to make a decision. I'm hurting my marriage, my husband, myself, and the other man, whose life is on hold...and he waits for me patiently. I'm in a no win situation. I have to hurt someone that I love....what do I do ?Thanks. :co [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img][ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

Is the other man (OM) also married? Either of you have kids? How many, how old?Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Other man is not married & has not kids. Is 31
Husband and I have no kids. We are both 30.

lil,Interestingly, there was another woman that posted here years ago who called herself Lost-in-Love. She pretty much did what you did.Your marriage has no chance as long as OM is involve with you. As you say, you cannot have a physical relationship with your H now, yet you say that you have never had the cannot keep your hands off of each other feeling before. Hard to have it, if you won't let it happen isn't it. I have several strong recommendations for you. First, go to the bookstore,or library and get Surviving an Affair by Harley. You will see many of the steps you are going through very clearly written out.Next, you need to tell your H. If you are inclinded toward counseling get some and then devise a way to tell him and do it SOON.I will tell you that the "cannot keep the hands off each other" phase goes pretty fast. Then it comes down to many other things including character. That is questionable here.I will tell you that most second marriages don't make it. Why? because the spouses don't learn why the first failed and do the same thing over again. You say you believe that marriage is a one time deal, but you are two timing your H.So please get that book and do some serious reading. It is very easy reading, although it may be painful to you. Next, you must tell your H. He cannot help you build a better marriage until he knows what is wrong.Finally, if you decide to break it off with OM, you will really need your H. You see what you will feel is very much like withdrawal from an addiction. Hence Harley and others do call this period of time being in "withdrawal". It is painful and your H can help you through it.So do some reading of the articles on this site and then get that book. At that point I think you will know which way to go.God Bless,JL

OK ... thanks for the answers.First thing ... get your depression treated. It is so difficult to make these choices, and near impossible to think clearly when depression takes over! See your physician, and tell him/her everything ... ask to be treated for depression and to be checked for STDs.Is there any addiction or chemical dependency going on currently or in the past? That should be taken care of as well if necessary.Here's my "take" as a BS (betrayed spouse).....You're going to have to choose. You can't have both. (I think it is typical for people in your situation to imagine they CAN have both the H and the OM ... but, it is not possible to do this and maintain your sanity or your integrity) You have to make a choice. Denying or delaying the choice will not be helpful to you. Make a choice.Then, if you have a choice in your marriage, why then does your H not get a choice? If he chose to get married, chances are, he made a choice for monogamy ... now, he is no longer in a monogamous marriage, but he has been robbed of his choice. HE needs a choice too. Stay with you and rebuild, or not. Are you seriously thinking you should disallow him a choice in his own marriage, his own future again?Both of you get to choose. One cannot make an intelligent choice if one is lacking pertinent information. If I were your physician, and I asked you if you wanted a medical treatment, but I neglected to inform you what your diagnosis was ... would you be happy? Would you be able to make a smart choice when you lack critical information?Tell your husband everything. He is at least owed a voice in making one of the most important decisions in his life.He may decide to leave you ...or not. But, it is HIS choice, and for you to rob him of his right to be a partner in deciding his future is very cruel.It won't be easy ... but clearly, what you are doing now is not working, it is wrong, and everyone loses.Tell everything. BOTH of you deserve an informed choice.Good luck, keep your chin up!Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

YES, you do need to tell your H. Right now you are basically using him. Sorry if that sounds harsh, it's my opinion. I've been at his end and it hurts more than you'll ever know. You may want to enter counseling first, and tell him in front of the counselor...that's what my H did. I will stress that THE LONGER YOU LIE AND THE MORE SECRETS YOU KEEP, THE MORE YOUR H WILL HURT AND THE LONGER HIS RECOVERY WILL TAKE.My H lied to me for 6 years about his affair with my former best friend. They both claimed it was EA only but it still was awful. We were separated for 9 mos and he almost lost his business, as her H was H's partner/best friend.We finally got back together, got LOTS of counseling, prayed, read, etc. and it worked out. It took me about 18 mos to feel 'better.' Well, last summer I found out the truth. They both lied to me to protect themselves and each other. It was sexual, including in MY BED which has devastated me. I had to buy new furniture, change bedrooms around, etc. and I still don't even like my house anymore.As far as the sex not beginning right away, that's because you are involved in an 'entangled or Class II affair.' This is the hardest affair to recover from as it begins with emotional involvement. My H also didn't have sex with her until much later. You really should read the book "Torn Asunder" and you will see that what you are feeling is VERY predictable. You'll also see why it's totally necessary for you to tell your spouse everything he wants to know. It is only if he knows the truth and you completely feel his hurt, rage, anger, etc. that you can properly rebuild your marriage.You have about a 5% chance of staying with this OM. Especially if you don't have counseling, you'll take your problems into that new relationship and with the added guilt of the affair, you don't have much hope of it lasting. It may begin, but it will probably end fairly quickly. My H's other woman cheated on H #1 with H #2 and on H#2 with My H. She has since divorced again which doesn't surprise me. She has not had counseling, nor apologized to me or admitted the affair.I know you truly feel that this is the 'love of your life.' Everyone who's involved in affairs feels that way usually. My H also swore that to be true. He looks back now with so much amazement that he ever said that and knows now that he did not love her.Affairs cause a chemical 'addiction' similar to alcohol/drug addictions. You need to continue seeing that person to get your 'fix.' But sooner or later the real world will enter in and you will see the relationship with all of its faults. If this man is willing to cheat with you on your husband, he will most likely cheat ON you with somebody else. I admire your honesty. Please consider all of the wise advice you will get here. Since it is a marriage builders site, you won't find anybody to tell you to continue lying and seeing the other man. It's just not worth the pain and the guilt you will eventually feel.My H's affair has put me to **** and back. I'm pregnant now and can't take the antidepressants that were just beginning to work and help me to cope, eat, sleep, etc. Infidelity is by far the most painful thing I've experienced, worse than death as death isn't intentional.I truly hope you will read Torn Asunder. The article 'Shattered Vows' at findarticles.com is also great. Please tell your H. You loved him enough to marry him. By the way, being married to your best friend is by far the best thing you'll ever find. You should do the emotional needs questionairre at this site and find out what needs the OM is meeting that I'm sure your H would love to have a chance at.Good luck and keep posting

LIL...Your story is so similar to mine, that H thought it was me posting under another name. I feel compelled to talk with you, but I am in withdrawal myself at this point. I'm afraid it would pretty much be the blind leading the blind, but I just wanted you to know you're SO not alone with your feelings! Take care. IAF

WOW...it's my story all over again. As I told Mrs Funk...it is unfortunate, but it is common. Your story isn't unique, your feelings aren't unique, your situation isn't unique...and this man...is not unique.I was there 2 years...even a year ago. I even "gave up" the OM for months at a time...but I never gave him up totally...not enough to give my marriage a real chance. FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY I saw the light...2 weeks before our divorce was to be final. Things are sooooo different....it's FABULOUS! I LOVE my husband...I am actually IN LOVE with my husband. I love our life together and I LOVE that HE gave ME a second chance. Always seemed the other way around before.Anyway...I hope you will give this board a chance. I have so much more to write to both you and Mrs Funk. I have a sick child and work and a husband in need of some TLC...but I WILL write something for the both of you very soon. I'm going to dig back into my "journal" and see if you can see yourself in what I wrote. I'm SURE you can. And maybe by seeing that it might just give you a glimmer that there is another path...the one that's soooo difficult to see and believe in right now.

Lost,Something you can do to help yourself right away is to go to the top of this page, and right under the Marriage Builders logo, there is a row of links. Click on the Q&A link, and then on the left hand side of that page, click on "How to Survive Infidelity". There you will find a series of columns by Dr. Harley that will answer your most pressing questions. Dr. Harley has been helping couples recover from infidelity for over 30 years and has helped hundreds of thousands of couples. He knows what he is talking about.You may also want to click on the Radio link above and obtain the phone number to call and talk directly to Dr. Harley on his wife's radio show on Monday. He and his wife are very reassuring to talk to. There is also counseling available by following the Counsel link above.[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I'm trying (for the zillionth time!) to have no contact with OM. I've told him that I have to make sure I've done everything I can do to save my marriage...He is very understanding. He tells me that he just wants me to be happy...that he loves me...and that he will be there waiting if I need him. He tells me that he does not want to date anyone else & will wait til I tell him for good that it's over...because he knows I'm the love of his life & he's already found what he's looking for.I still don't know how to bring this conversation up to my husband...or if it's best to try to work it out without telling him the whole truth to spare his feelings. I know that everyone disagrees with this....but why hurt him in this way if I can work it out without telling him??Thanks....

Inafunk....is there a way to talk off line? through email maybe? I'm still trying to figure out how this site works.....[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

"Why hurt him in this way if I can work it out without telling him?"Because a TRUE marriage is truth-based. What you currently have is a marriage based upon a falsehood. Are you willing to lie to him the rest of your life? If the answer is, "Yes, I am willing to lie to him the rest of his life." ... then why stay married?Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by lostinlove92111:
but why hurt him in this way if I can work it out without telling him??<hr></blockquote>Are you presupposing that he is not hurting now? Do you think your rejection of him has gone unnoticed by him? I'd be willing to bet big money that he has suspected your infidelity for some time. Nearly all of us "knew" before we knew for sure.WS who have confronted themselves about this matter have recognized that the problem is not so much their reluctance to hurt their spouse with the truth, but it is more about their reluctance to reveal themself as the source of their partner's pain.Assuming you want your M to recover, do you want your H to love and want YOU or someone you have manufactured to avoid revealing the real you?If you won't go to the mountain, I'll bring the mountain to you. From Dr. Harley's Q&A column I urged you to read: <blockquote>quote:<hr>From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. but lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.<hr></blockquote>I challenge you to commit to no contact with the OM for three entire weeks. We will help you. The most intense of withdrawal symptoms happen within the first three weeks of no contact. If you break that and have contact, the clock resets to zero and you have to start all over and go through the worst of it again. It is no wonder you are such a mess if you are doing this for a week or two at a time and then undoing it by resuming contact.One of the most important reasons for telling your H in addition to everything mentioned in Dr. Harley's quote above is that he can HELP you get through the withdrawal period. If you follow the extraordinary precautions suggested in SAA, it will help you get through the withdrawal period. Once you are through withdrawal, your H's efforts to fill your Love Bank will be effective. You will have no idea if Dr. Harley's concepts work if you don't give them a fair trial.[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]

lostinlove:"I'm trying (for the zillionth time!) to have no contact with OM."GET HELP!! Counselors AND your H!"I've told him that I have to make sure I've done everything I can do to save my marriage...He is very understanding."Like h*** he is! Or maybe he thinks he is, but by "being there for you" in his position, he'll do nothing but harm to your efforts to rebuild your M.

"He tells me that he just wants me to be happy..."The only way he could help you be happy is to get out of your life while you rebuild your M. Better still would have been to exercise a little restraint in the first place and NOT get involved with you while you are M'd. "that he loves me...and that he will be there waiting if I need him."Wrong message, if he truly cares about you. He doesn't. He cares about himself."He tells me that he does not want to date anyone else & will wait til I tell him for good that it's over..."Good! Now's your chance! Tell him it's over NOW, and tell him not to try to contact you ever again! "because he knows I'm the love of his life & he's already found what he's looking for."Nonsense. Sorry, but he's lost in a fantasy, as are you, which is why breaking this off is so difficult for you. A man of true integrity would not have gotten involved with a married woman in the first place, and even this one should not be adding to your confusion by saying the things he's been saying to you when you tell him you want to rebuild your M. Again, if he cared at all about you, he'd simply stay away and let you and your H work together. Sorry to appear to come down so hard on you, but I'm really not. I just realize, being a BS myself, what you H is going to go through over the next several months or longer. But do tell him, as others have advised in this thread. Tell him everything, and give him the chance to help you out of your addiction with all the information he needs to do so. Don't talk to your OM again, even if it's just to say something seemingly innocent, like "how are you?" OM is none of your business, as a married woman, and you are none of his business either.

check your email, LIL. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Because you have no chance at true intimacy with this big secret between you. If you read Torn Asunder, you will see that unrevealed affairs lead to stagnation in marriage, and a much higher chance of more affairs. Secrets are also crazy making. I can honestly say that even with all of the pain I've experienced in the past 9 mos, it's better than the uncertainty and uneasiness I sensed in the previous 6 years. You can usually tell when someone is lying to you, and I'm sure your H does suspect something.If you don't tell him now, it will NOT get easier. He deserves to know and then HE can decide what he wants to do. Good luck and keep posting

Interesting......and abit like my story.....only I havent had contact with OM since my H found out and I ended it. It was on its way out anyway, and I knew it.H and I have been going to therapy, we have come a long way... his anger is much much better and coming home is much more enjoyable than it used to be. The only place we really have trouble is the bedroom. I still cannot open up to him sexually. I just don't have the desire for him. He and I are great friends....and we enjoy each others company... I'm not sure why I cant do more.Part of what my affair was all about was to see if it was really just ME....or if I just felt that way about him. I realized that I was able to open up and give my all to the OM.... it was shocking to me, in fact.Sooo, I wonder if any other WS have had this problem??????? I know it hurts the BS to hear this.....

Hi LIL,You're getting a LOT of good advice here... my thoughts on this pretty much are going to echo what you're already hearing...My WW has gone through nearly exactly what you've described for yourself. She was where you are today, about 2-3 months ago. But things are changing. Some of it, I'd like to honestly believe is because of me and what I'm doing... but I'm a realist... a large chunk of what's been going on is that the FANTASY aspect of her A is starting to die off. YOURS WILL TOO. I promise you that. I'll put $10,000 on the line, if you like...The problem is this... you imagine a wonderful, perfect life with OM... but you haven't lived it - and lived it in an environment like that which you'd have in a REAL, honest relationship. And that means the REAL WORLD. With all the slings and arrows of REAL LIFE. And an A's "real life" is way harder than a M's "real life"... because you would have to turn your back on your H, family, lose your reputation, respect, etc. Reality will catch up with you... and your A will die. Nearly all A are done within 2 years - no matter how much you want to hold onto it... because when the passion fades - you've got nothing left to sustain it. You can't sustain it with the deep, devoted love you get from marriage - because you're building your A on deceit and thoughtlessness - no matter how much you want to deny it in your mind... even lies of omission are still lies, and I know you can already think of many, many lies you've had to tell to build your "double life" to make your A work.What I'm trying to say is this: there's no easy way to end it... so just do it... The longer you leave it, the harder it will be for everyone - as you yourself seem to recognize.

Hmmm... well...Welcome to Marriage Builders! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I try to stay away from posts like these, because my story is so long... and I hate having to rehash it... but it's late, my H is still at work (it's 1:41 am, as I begin this) and I find myself drawn to this thread.I'm warning you ahead of time -- I used to be a WS, and my ex-H cheated on me more times that I care to count, so I've been a BS too. After nearly three years on this board, I've grown a bit jaded and harsh... know that this isn't personal... I don't really know you... but I've been in your shoes, and in your H's. That said:The word soulmate makes me want to puke, scream, kick the computer in... you name it, that's what it makes me want to do. You feel "ALIVE". Oh Lord, we ALL said those words.Your OM only "wants what's best for you" and "loves you enough" to let you go, right? Been there.The relationship is not unique, the OM is not unique and your love is not unique. There is "nothing new under the sun" you know, and God sure knew what He was talking about on that one, didn't He?As far as your H goes - dollars to donuts, he knows already. Betrayed spouses usually have "a feeling" something is wrong, but can't put their finger on it. Or maybe they can... remains to be seen with your H. But I'll tell you this -- if you keep hiding this from him, and he finds out before you have the chance to tell him -- it will be 100 times worse. Your H is trying to fix something that he doesn't quite understand. He's fixing the lampshade when it's the lightbulb that's out! I am of the "radical honesty" crowd. You need to find a safe place to tell him (a therapist's office is best)... and you'd better do it SOON!You came here, to Marriage Builder's, for HELP to BUILD YOUR MARRIAGE. You came to the RIGHT PLACE!Begin by taking off the rose colored glasses and seeing your soulmate for what he really is: an opportunistic man who is committing adultery with another man's wife. That will be a beginning for you. He knows your weaknesses, and preys on them. He says the right things to keep you hooked, but he is a presense of evil in your marriage. Cut him OUT!This isn't going to be easy, but you can DO IT, especially with the help of the good people here.

Another word of warning!!!Lil & Mrs Funk, I think it's great that you two have found each other and are going to converse via email. I'ts always nice to have someone to talk to that understands. BUT!!!!!!!! BE CAREFUL! There are two paths here and it's soooo easy to go down the wrong one when you have someone else to validate you. The voices of experience are telling you the TRUTH about your situations....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't "lean" on each other and decide that you know better than those who have been there done that! That's EXACTLY what I did, and I was WRONG...and you would be too.I was posting on a different message board before this one...so I saw it all the time (as well as did it myself). It's difficult to hear things you don't want to believe...it feels so much better to talk to someone who sympathizes and understands.I'm just warning you...not saying not to communicate. It really is good to talk to someone else who is right in the same thick-of-it as you are...just be careful is all!Lil, if it's allright with you I'm going to write down your email addy and send you some of the same stuff I send Mrs. Funk, ok?

H4F [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'm one step ahead of you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I already emailed her and said that I was in no position to give her advice, because I'm in the same situation right now. But I did offer her my shoulder, my ear, and my confidentiality.Thanks for being so concerned!

WOW! GOOD FOR YOU!! I only wish I'd had the head on my shoulders that you do. I was just sooo stubborn. You are doing really great!!! I emailed you!

I agree with the others that you do not have any hope of restoring your marriage if you are not honest. You have been married only two years and have been having an affair for six months and have not been intimate for the past five months
with your husband.Let me ask you this simple question. How would you feel if the roles were reversed and all of a sudden your husband writes this board and asks that he wishes to work on the marriage but he is not sure if he should tell his wife. Don't you think you would want all of the information.You have not been intimate with him for a long time and of course his self esteem must be hurting. You have put his physical health at risk for STD's and you say you do not wish to tell him because you do not want to hurt him? Oh please... It is time for you to be an adult and stop lying and disrespecting the man you married.
You need to be honest with your husband and with yourself. Your husband should have all of the information to decide whether or not he wishes to be with you. Why should you hold all of the cards. You have no hope for a marriage unless you will be honest with him. Would you want him to do to you what you are doing to him? I doubt it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by ConfusedMom:
The only place we really have trouble is the bedroom. I still cannot open up to him sexually. I just don't have the desire for him.<hr></blockquote>You will find the answers you need to change this in Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch.

Hope4future has said it best, IMO, about how familiar your situation is.I was in a similar situation. In high school, I fell headlong for a guy and never really got over him. My H didn't seem as goodlooking as he and bunches of other stupid comparisons. My H is overweight, etc., etc.At first, after I married, I would have dreams about my X. I would dream that we were together and that I wasn't married. Then, I started dreaming that we'd be together and I was married. Then, I dreamt that I thought about my choices...and chose X. They continued to progress, the dreams. Each time I had a choice in my dream, the choice became more and more difficult. Eventually, I started choosing my H in the dreams. And now, I rarely dream about X. We had even had some phone contact a couple of years ago. The feelings are gone. I care about him, but I do not love him any more than that...and I have no desire to find out about him either. It's like a person that is out of my life that I rarely consider anymore.You OM isn't all roses. Sure it's exciting...I think you'll find most affairs are, the more you read. But, nothing takes the place of having a safe haven, like you have with your H. You aren't safe with OM because your marriage (safe haven) isn't safe.I never thought I would love my H the way I was supposed to. But, he is still overweight and I love him more than I ever have, and have no desire to seek out another.My H's wonderful characteristics are...The most beautiful eyes I have ever seen (even X didn't have that)Very strong arms and legsIntelligenceSensitivityStrong work ethicChristian background and faith (X didn't have that either)A handsome nose (I've never liked mine, until recently)The cutest babies you ever sawHis love for meWonderful SF partnerScads of other things along with meeting most of my ENs.HTH. Remember, you're not alone.Like the others have said, your marriage won't have a chance until the OM is out of the picture. Even then, he will be a ghost for a long time.Hoping

I failed to mention that I did tell H about my dreams. I know it hurt him, but he was strong and loved me anyway.He's so special.Hoping

Just finished reading the rest of the thread and new_beginning has it right also and adds some more good advice to the thread.I hope you're listening. I hope you help your situation and not let go the wonderful man you've got.Remember? He's your BF for a reason. That's the best kind of H to have.To quote someone else on the Emotional Needs Board (DJmusicbox's thread), "The way you get a man is the way you lose a man." If you end up with this man, he will probably cheat on you, too, if he's not already.Hoping

Hi there,
Just a few points from me, Im not in your situation, I was the BS in our marriage, BUT I did hear all the same EXACT things you mentioned. Positive she was never in love with me, OM soul mate, 99.999999% sure its for real, realized what true love was with him and so on and so forth, NO desire for intimacy at all with me as I was just at best a friend, more so even a room mate.First off, things CANT recover properly unless you tell him. Nothing he says or does EVEN if he does the exact same things as the OM will help him get a place in your heart, because the other man is still in there.You need to see a counselor.. dont be discouraged, it takes a while sometimes to find a good one. Please also consider meds for depression. They really did a HUGE wonder for my wife. She told me, once she started them and they kicked in, she was able to see past some of the depression and emotion that was clouding her judgment and START to see how much of a mistake she was making.Anyway, after the painful revelation and initial stages, real recovery needs to take place and that takes two people so you have to tell him.(You and your husband, of course)Actually think about this. Either way. you cant continue on in your present situation right? Its bad for all concerned. All that needs to be done is tell him, he deserves that much. It wont be easy and I know it will take a lot of bravery and will power for you to do it but your husband deserves that much doesnt he? Even if he is just your friend. He deserves the truth. HE should be deciding if he wants to stay with you, not the other way around. Tell him you made a mistake and go from there perhaps.. I wish I could give you other ways about it, but there is no easy way to do it. Writing it down might be a start you could give it to him in a letter, but please do it face to face.Anyway, sorry I tend to ramble in my posts. As I was saying, things were much like you describe when I first found out about my wife's A.She was convinced she never loved me.... I was plan A'ing away. she then said maybe she loved me.months later she says she did love me, but not anymore.We removed OM from the picture... (once or twice)
and she says we are at least friends she COULD love me and COULD see a future, but cant decide.a few months later anti depressants, a GOOD marriage couselor on the second try, Me talking to the OM, wife reading SAA and a few false starts. My wife says she regrets everything, she DOES love me and feels sad that I almost gave up on HER. We are in strong recovery so far, and it is all based on COMMUNICATION and mutual effort.Give your husband the chance to decide.Good luck and Godbless!-HI

You said it HI...I went through those same stages. I kept saying how I did respect my H and liked him as a friend, but that was it...then it went to I did LOVE him but wasn't IN LOVE with him...and on and on just as you said. Fact is I DO love him, very deeply, and cannot BELIEVE what a jerk I was to him.I have the feeling Mrs LIL has abandoned us...we have not provided the "support" she was hoping to find and so now I'm sure we're being written off as harsh and not seeing the WHOLE PICTURE. Yea, well...been there done that too. I hope you are atleast still reading Mam...cause I'd be willing to bet in under 6 months time you are going to be wanting to talk to someone who's been there done that... Good luck.

I am still reading...Please don't think I'm not. It's just difficult for me to get onto the site long enough to reply.I've still having a few conflicts about telling. I myself don't think I'd want to know. I think it's better not to know...and have things just be put in the past...then to have to go through the feeling of not having trust. If I'm able to move on with my husband (which I don't know if this is possible still), wouldn't it be better to save him this pain. I'm still trying to settle this in my head. Are there other sites that I could get more info about this on so that I can feel better about my choice to tell or not tell? I'm not looking for someone to agree with me, but I do want to be sure I'm doing the right thing.I'm also having a hard time believing that all these feelings I'm having for OM are not real...that I'm just supposed to ignore them & tell him goodbye. This is very difficult when I'm feeling this is my true love & I feel like I'd be letting the love of my life get away...and that I'd lose the person I was meant to be with. I hear what you're all saying...but it's so difficult to comprehend why I'd feel so strong (especially since I've never felt this way) if it wasn't meant to be? And what about the OM? If I decide to work things out with my husband, how do you just ignore the love you have for that person? Are there support groups for OM? Do the OM ever post on this site? I love this person too! I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt anyone.I am listening....just still struggling about what to do.Thank you all for your advice...[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

Hello again,
Recovery isnt impossible. Trust isnt impossible to recover. Yes it hurts and yes it takes a while, but really. I've been through it. Consider my situation my wife's A started BEFORE our M. believe me I have had some trust issues I've been working through. But you can work through them. Have been on the other side you KNOW there are things the WS or other person can do to help you trust again. Its just a matter of the WS finding it in them to be totally honest and available to the BS in the rough times right after.Anyway re: Friends opinions
Friends always have opinions. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] If your friends told you to jump off a bridge would you? sorry had to slip that in there. Friends love and want to protect you. My friends often told me to leave my wife after I found out about her A. If I had listened to them I would have made a huge mistake... a few of em. Friends arent in your marriage. You Marriage is you and him. Both of you deserve to have all the facts about who and what the other person is.You say you wouldnt want to know, but hun, arent you a little biased at this point. I think you know telling him is the right thing to do which is why you are here. But its going to take a lot of courage for you to do it and I DO respect the fact that you are at trying to do the right thing.
You said again wouldnt it be better if he didnt know and you could get your love back and so on and so forth? You know that wont work. You
said yourself you've tried that already right? My wife tried it a few times too. The attraction of the OP is just so tough to get over. You cant work this out on your own, it takes two spouses for everything in a marriage, especially recovery.Re: The true love concept
I personally dont really think there is a one true love for anyone. I used to be that romantic, but there are billions of people out there. You love someone who makes you feel special. Who's to say if you keep looking you wont find someone better.. then later someone better. Marriage is the commitment to stop looking and focus on who you already have. See what unique qualities about that person you love has. And learning ways for both of you to grow closer in love. re: The OM
The flash of love you feel for the OM, will wane even if you stayed together. You can understand that right? If you had a relationship and saw him every single day, do you think you'd still have that fire? Probably not, it would wane, then what would be left in the relationship. I dont doubt your feelings for the OM dont exist, or that they arent powerful. But how much is that based on reality? Have you even had a real fight with him yet? Have you seen each other at your worst? Have you paid bills together and so on... Would he truely be willing to stay there for you as your husband currently is though unknown depression without explaination, without physical love? Your husband is already showing you love and marriage commitment.
Can you say you the OM really values marriage if he doesnt value your current one? You said you could never trust your first BF before after he cheated on you, but your OM is already a cheater. I know we always think stats dont apply to us, but the facts are that over 90% of affairs end in affairs because that relationship is started out or disregard for the value of the previous commitment. Your husband loves you, but its just hard for you to feel it because you are closed off to it with the OM in your life.Give your H a chance. If you have real love with the OM, what could giving your marriage a chance for at least half a year do to it? If you tell your husband about things and you both REALLY truely try and things dont work out, you can leave that marriage with a clean consciense.I think you know in your heart:
1) Your husband needs to know so HE can decide.
2) You need to tell him to get the ball rolling either way. Fence sitting just continutes to hurt all involved.Make a plan first and go from there. Marriage counseling and reading books will help. Have you read SAA? my wife really likes it it shows both sides of the story.You I know it will be hard, but I know you can do it.Praying for ya!-HI[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]

It seems to me that YOU are deciding for your H. That is selfish in my opinion. He's a big boy and can decide what to do with the information. You are basically giving him no credit right now for knowing what he needs.I was re-reading Torn Asunder last night and it reminded me of you wanting to avoid telling him. The author said that basically you are avoiding the consequences and doing it 'because you don't want to hurt him.' Is lying and living a lie not hurting him?My H's affair would have still devastated me, but been much easier to process if I weren't lied to for 6 years. The longer you wait, the digger the hole you dig and the more he will resent you.As for these feelings for OM, I would give anything if you could talk to my H. He was also 'totally in love with his soulmate, his one chance at happiness.' The other day he said thank God he's out of that situation and can see very clearly what is was .....INFATUATION. Period.If this OM is willing to cheat with you, he may just cheat ON you someday. Relationships that begin as affairs have less than a 10% chance of surviving. Most affairs last no longer than 18-24 mos. Probably because reality starts to enter into this very 'fantasy' like world.I really think your H deserves more than he's getting. Consider his feelings, and remember that you're probably only hearing the words of your friends who agree with you-take the easy way out, lie and cover it up.Sorry for the harshness. I've lived this for 6 years and seen it too many times. It's not pretty but recovery IS possible if you consider your marriage vows and your H.

By not trying to hurt your husband by being honest you are hurting him terribly. Do you think that he does not feel hurt when you avoid any emotional and physical contact with him. You made your choice to fall in love with another man. Allow your husband to make the choice to stay or leave the marriage. I don't believe you when you state that you are trying not hurt your husband. Instead I believe that the person you are trying to protect is yourself. I believe it is your attempt to avoid being made to feel ashamed and guilty of being the one responsible for the devastation of your marriage. "To thyself be true".[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: tomaz ]

When was your H declared incompetent and you appointed his guardian?Here's the deal--if you want a truly intimate fulfilling M, you HAVE to tell your H. He has to know who he is married to. If you want to leave your H and indulge your fantasy of living "happily ever after" with the OM, then you STILL have to tell your H and say good-bye.Either way, you have to tell in order to get what you want. That is unless you what you really want is to continue to enslave your H and string the OM along. And in that case, there will most likely come a time when the choice is no longer up to you.

Hi LIL, sweetie...just wanted to let you know that I got your email and I and in the middle of writing you back from work..Will finish & send in the AM. Sleep tight and take care of you.IAF

Lil...soooo glad you're still with us!!! You're listening...that's a good thing! I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW EXACTLY how you are feeling. Just a year ago I was picturing the OM and I's children, and where we would vacation...I even had it figured out how we'd do up the house and yard...you name it. I totally believed my feelings for him were "real". Well...yea, they WERE REAL...but not what I'd thought. My OM was a NICE GUY...confused and immature, but overall a good person. I loved him as a friend for many years before this all happend. He was fun to be around and so much more caring and open than the rest of the crew out here. So yea, I fell in love with him...that much was real. What wasn't real was how I dismissed my husband and my marriage because of the world I had painted in my head. That world wasn't real. The future I had pictured wasn't real. The RUSH of ALIVE and PASSION and CAN'T KEEP OUR HANDS OFF EACH OTHER...those were LUST. A first time for me...I'd never felt that before...I'd never been "in love" before. BUT..it wasn't because my OM was my soul mate...it was because I was hurting and depressed and emotionally abandoned in my marriage...and I was ready to feel those feelings. You think you married your husband for the wrong reasons? Hey, as far as I can see we ALL DO! And marrying the OM because you LUST him would be the WORST reason of all! Because LUST LEAVES! It will ABSOLUTELY be gone...atleast the degree that you're feeling it now. Friendship...friendship is by far one of the BEST reasons to get married that I have seen yet. And realize...if you divorce your friend...you will lose his friendship forever. I surely miss the OM's friendship...but I would have missed my husband's as well.Keep listening...keep reading. My friends "supported" my decision too...and they were never so relieved when H and I got back together. Their initial "support" was because they saw me miserable and wanted me to be happy...they saw how happy I was when I spoke of the OM. Hey..that's "in love" for ya...makes you radiate. But soon after their advice they realized how irresponsible that advice was...they regretted it. Seeing us get back together brought a sigh of relief and a bit more respect for me...because I FIGURED IT OUT and I DID THE RIGHT THING! Your friends don't have to live with the consequences of your actions...it's easy to give "advice" based on that.There have been some great books recommended to you. Another is A Woman's Book of Life by Joan Borysenko. There's a good chance you are going through a major life cycle right now if you're between the ages of 28-32. This is similiar to a man's mid life. It would help explain many of the confusing and restless feelings your having about life right now.Take care!

Hi lost - let me pose a different question to you.You indicated your "true love" knows you're struggling with whether or not to stay married and he's willing to wait for you.Why in the world are you willing to throw away your marriage for a slimeball who is completely willing to be a homewrecker? a liar? an adulterer? someone capable of placing his selfish needs above someone else fully knowing he's doing something wrong in the process?And you admire this?Sweetie, step back and take a look at this.I promise you that as soon as the "new" wears off this creep, you'll see all this for yourself. Dump him before it's too late.WAT

Hi LIL,Been right where you are. I thought I had found my "soulmate" and the love of my life too...but my H found out, told his wife and I never heard another word from him. That's OK, because what I discovered is that the REAL love of my life was standing right in front of me....and to think that I almost lost my M over someone, who in hindsight, is as immature and self-absorbed as the day is long. I feel pretty lucky to have been given another chance.If you tell your H the truth at least he can decide what HE wants and all the cards will be on the table. Take it from someone who kept playing one card at a time....just throw the whole had in and get it over with. It'll all come out eventually anyway.A

I'm one of Lil's friends. I'm one of the ones who initially told her not to tell. I've learned that was a mistake. I'm not married. I've never been in this situation. I'm the wrong person to give advice on this stuff and I know that now.I just wanted her to be happy. She seemed so happy when we talked about OM. So tortured and miserable in this situation. Lil, listen to these people. LISTEN to THEM. Follow their advice. It's the best out there. Truly is. I belive you have to tell H. You have to tell him everything. Not only for him, but for you too. I've seen what this is doing to you, and I don't think it will go away until you release the burden. Coming here was the best thing you have ever done. As always, I'm here to support you. Good luck - and thanks to all who have responded to the thread.

Wow, I wish my wife had friends like you when she was in her A! Her friend(s) gave her a place to consumate the relationship instead of sending her home to her H. Thanks for posting![ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Bunky ]

Here4U...my friends felt the same way. They just wanted happiness for me...and, quite frankly, a couple of them were miserable in their own marriages and thought that if they had the same opportunites as I, they would jump on it. Obviously they knew little of the complexities of all of this. I finally learned to quit leaning on them...and to start looking within for the answers. It wasn't that my friends weren't good advice givers...just that this wasn't something that THEY COULD give advice on...they weren't in the marriage, nor were they part of the A.Lil...I hope you wake up before it's too late. I hear all the time about people who are SURE they've got it all figured out...only to go crawling back to their spouses later begging for a second chance...and some of them don't get one. Be very careful.

LIL:"I've still having a few conflicts. I've told some friends that know both me & H and they say "don't tell him". "Don't listen to them. They don't know what you're going through, or what your H *is* going through, because he's an unwitting player in your life of lying to him. He's compartmentalized into a small corner of your ability to be devoted to someone. That isn't fair."I myself don't think I'd want to know... ...And the hell that we went through for 3 years after was unbearable because I didn't trust a thing he said....And I felt so insecure...It was a horrible feeling...I think it's better not to know...and have things just be put in the past... ...If I'm able to move on with my husband (which I don't know if this is possible still), wouldn't it be better to save him this pain."In a word, NO! Think about this. If you've already felt this yourself with your previous relationship, do you think it would really be possible to ever want to "not be told" if your partner was having an A? The not knowing would eat you alive! I went through major hell when I found out about my W's A. MORE because I found out myself, she didn't tell me. And it started 11 years ago! So, what if you are able to rebuild your M without telling your H about your A and he finds out 11 years from now just why it was you weren't getting along so well now? Think about how devastated he'll be THEN."I'm still trying to settle this in my head. Are there other sites that I could get more info about this on so that I can feel better about my choice to tell or not tell? I'm not looking for someone to agree with me, but I do want to be sure I'm doing the right thing."Not that I know of. "I'm also having a hard time believing that all these feelings I'm having for OM are not real...that I'm just supposed to ignore them & tell him goodbye."The feelings may not be "real", but noone will disagree that they're very strong. That's all the more reason for breaking off all contact with your OM permanently - you can't just "forget" your feelings for him, but you can't focus your attention on your R with your H if you're periodically being yanked back to this draw to the OM by maintaining contact with him."this is my true love"Nonsense."& I feel like I'd be letting the love of my life get away..."We all have to make exclusive choices in our lives: where to work, where to live, who to be with. These kinds of choices require us to devote ourselves to ONE of these things and grieve the "death" of all others. When you do this, you'll find you're much better off because you'll feel better about your own integrity. You just might rediscover your H and what you love about him in the process. "and that I'd lose the person I was meant to be with."meant by who? Sorry, I'm an atheist, but even when I was a Christian I knew better than to think that God would "mean" for me to be with someone that I was living a lie with, when I was M'd. "And maybe the right thing for me to do is leave my husband?? Who do you know that it's always right to make the marriage work? What if I married the wrong person? For the wrong reasons?"You'll not be able to answer these questions so long as you're leading a double life with these two men. If your H isn't "right" for you, the thing to do would still be to sever contact with your OM and work on figuring that out. If you then can't repair your M with OM "out of sight, out of mind" the whole time, then it might be time to consider DV. But DON'T recontact OM until this is FINAL. Don't get into a rebound relationship with him. It probably will fail, and then you would have destroyed your M as well as this "new" R."And what about the OM? If I decide to work things out with my husband, how do you just ignore the love you have for that person?"You don't. But you can expect those feelings to fade with time, *especially* if you stay OUT of contact."Are there support groups for OM? Do the OM ever post on this site?"Yes, provided they're pro-M, and want to rebuild their own Ms. For this reason, many OP don't come here, because the last thing they want, during the A, is for their A partner to leave them permanently."I love this person too! I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt anyone."But you already have hurt your H. You owe him honesty and love. You owe OM nothing whatsoever. He had an A with you, knowing (if he's got any integrity whatsoever) that it was WRONG. Don't feel bad about "hurting him." Frankly, he deserves it.Warmest regards

I[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

lostinlove:Oh BOY!! You don't really expect me, or anyone else on this site, to feel any simpathy for this guy, do you? Actually, I probably would have tried to be helpful if HE had posted this message to this forum. In fact, I would feel a lot better about his chances of rebuilding his self-respect (or his integrity, if he thinks he's got his self-respect already), if he were to join in and post to this thread. But be prepared for some very harsh-sounding replies if he does.Heck, be prepared for my harsh-sounding reply to your forward: ""WOW! There are a lot of people that have the same problem!!
Well baby, everyone seems to have good advice on everything that they have experienced,"We try, we really do, considering the pain we're in, to truly help each other out. Hopefully, most of the time, we succeed. But there's still no substitute for good counselling. This is what lostinlove needs most, not you right now.

"I've mentioned to you about telling H about his situation a few times."At least this guy's got a spark of good in him."I'm not pressuring you (directly) I know that we say the we love each other and that we've had all the conversations that everyone else has had with their OM (hehe, lingo)"Would you prefer "adulterer", or "homewrecker", or "betrayer", or "liar", or "rat [censored]"? I think OM is pretty generous, and it's accurate without being insensitive to those that come here for real help."ok, well that still doesn't help us,"No, it won't either. Only good counselling can help either of you."sure that concern for making the right choice is the most important one here with us, But the choice in still being made by you? I can't move forward with you unless you can move forward with me?"The "right choice" to make here would be to look at yourselves, what you've done, and decide whether or not you can live with the dishonesty your relationship is built on. Can you? I certainly couldn't. As I've told lostinlove, if you two want to be together, you should back off and let her find out if she wants her M or not, and stay out of the picture until such time she decides she does not, AND she's divorced and ready to recommit. ...But then there's still the dishonest basis of your relationship to live with "forever, forsaking all others, in holy matrimony" and all that..."If you don't think that this will work between us and you go by the statistics that have been brought up, then I guess we're on a dead-end street to no-where. I don't think we are"I do think you are, but that's just my opinion.

"but everyone else that has "lived "
this say's it is. Well I guess they're experts right?"None of us pretend to be experts, but we are experienced, certainly. You obviously have no idea how much pain you're inflicting on lostinlove or her H. A$$." Well, how about this for a opinion ?"Looking forward to this!"I feel that what people are saying on this post is based on affairs that went bad."Oh please! Affairs don't have to GO bad, they ARE bad from the beginning (see my alternate terms for "OM" above)."They got themselves into a situation that was lead by the wrong reason and ended up as a train wreck."Which is pretty much all of them."Yes affairs are not good,"Wisdom, at last!"but if they happen it's for a reason, whether they spawn from lust or in some rare cases love."I don't think anyone here would dispute this. But finding those reasons and dealing with the consequences does not involve continuing the A."I mean, where are the posts that have the 10% of the success stories that ended up being together for the rest of their lives and had all the conversations about kids, houses, dogs and vacations come true?"Good question. I don't know the answer, and I don't know if you'll find it here. Maybe 10% is being generous?"I know the odds are against people like this, but there ARE people who found something GREAT out of having the affair, it opened their eyes to something they where missing in their original relationship, what ever it may be."This certainly happens within the M after an A is brought to light, and there have been some to tout the "benefits" of having an A, but they're rare (and pretty screwed up, in my opinion). "I admit I do sound like a hypocrite when I say I cherish marriage and here I am basically destroying someone else's,"You most certainly do!"but why am I taking all the blame? The other person is just as guilty."Yes, lostinlove is just as guilty. But her H isn't, he doesn't even know about your A. He IS guilty of his share of the problems within their M, but he is not responsible, in any way, shape, or form for lostinlove's decision to cheat on him."But maybe this marriage was destroyed already?, why would anyone that is so happily married be swayed so easily to cheat on their
spouse?"You and lostinlove need to read a LOT of literature on this very subject. Basically, we're all wired for affairs. Even when we act on the temptations, our Ms can be rebuilt, but both spouses have to be interested in rebuilding their M, or at the very least they need to be given the chance to find out if there is any reason to stay M'd. But they can only have that opportunity if there are NO DISTRACTIONS from the OP. In other words, OM, do the right thing here and BACK OFF! Better yet, check out some books from the library about infidelity (forgot to mention "infidel" on the list of synonyms for OM, above), and LEARN. You can be a better person for it. And, if eventually lostinlove determines that her M was "wrong" and gets a divorce, you'll be better prepared to be a loving, caring, honest companion to her for the rest of your life."Well because were only human and we make mistakes. So what?"So, what we're all human. Humans do all kinds of things for/to each other. Sometimes humans are loving, sometimes they lie, sometimes they kill each other. What kind of human do you want to be remembered as?"We can also fix mistakes right? My question is why is the affair the mistake? Because it's morally and socially unaccepted? That's one reason. It's also a lie. It's also the cruelest form of spousal abuse there is. "I agree, but it happens."You don't agree strongly enough to stop yourself from taking cruel advantage of a married woman by getting involved emotionally and sexually with her while she's married to someone else. Where's your sense of integrity, man? "Could the mistake be the marriage?"The marriage could be *a* mistake, but the A is *the* mistake in question."I mean yeah you got married but, what makes that the right choice to begin with? People get married for the wrong reasons all the time, be it money, fame, power, isn't that socially and morally unaccepted also? "Perhaps. But, once again, this has nothing to do with your having an A with lostinlove. Let her and her H decide whether their M was a mistake. You can't help her determine this at all."OK, another question, what makes our situation prone to failure? Because everyone else's failed?"Pretty good reason, don't you think?"Just because they failed doesn't mean that we will."No, but the statistics DO MEAN that your R will PROBABLY fail. Do you want to ruin lostinlove's M on the slim chance that your A will be one of the 10% that does "succeed?" I would feel like a heel in your position. "Why can't we be part of the 10% of the success stories? Not possible? Then where did the 10 % come from, someone must be happy with their OM or OW?" Again, not very good odds, even assuming your illicit relationship is one of the 10% that can succeed. I guess that I can only hope that lostinlove came to this site out of a sincere desire to do the right thing. That right thing may be to rebuild her M and her R with her H, or it may be to determine that the M isn't right for her and end it in divorce. Either way, YOU need to get out of the picture while she works this out for herself. Be a man. Be respectable. Do right by lostinlove!

LIL if you want to end your marriage than do so. Stop trying to justify your choice to commit adultery by blaming your husband for not making you happy. Committing adultery is easy. There are a lot of lowlife around who have no hesitation to screw around with a married woman.It is dealing with the consequences that is going to be difficult. A good marriage does not just happen. It takes a lot of work. Of course, you don't want to believe this to be true because you are in love with this OM and think that he is going to make you happy everyday of your life. The problem is that some people have to learn the hard way. The people posting on this website are trying to warn you but you can't or unwilling to hear. The question is what do you want to do with hubby who thinks he married an angel. My advice tell him and end this charade of being married.[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: tomaz ]

LiL,I know of one woman here who had the affair and married her OM. She posts here occasionally, BonnieSept is her login name. I know of many other WS's here who remarried often their affair partner and are or have been posting because their marriage is going down the tubes.LIL, the honorable thing to do is tell your H about the affair. He might just save you a lot of trouble and divorce you. Harley often comments that if there are no children, and an affair occurs that one should look hard and deep to determine if the marriage should be saved. As for your "soulmate", I don't know whether to laugh or not. It is sooo common around here that it is sort of a standing joke. Further, there is no chance your H can do a single thing to ignite the passion while you are emotionally intangled with your OM. THat will make OM very happy as he has no possible competition as long as the affair lasts. However, he might want to consider the type of woman you seem to be. Your affair started after only 18 months of marriage to a man you have known 10 years. I guess that probably means he will get about 10 years then out the door.I am not being mean nor am I being silly. I am being brutally honest with you. You will have learned absolutely nothing about what you have done and why you did it, until you tell your H. THen and only then, can you truely evaluate what is wrong with you and LIL something is.Most people don't know someone for 10 years, marry them and have an affair with their "soulmate" only 1.5 years after the marriage. THere seems to be a lot you don't know about yourself, and a sure way to find out is to find out about the type of man you are married to. THat knowledge will only come if you tell him.If you just divorce him and slink into the night, the odds are high you and OM won't be the 10%. Why? because only about 10% of people really learn from this experience. THat is why this board is such a shock to people. It makes sense but not the kind they have ever heard before.So LIL, you have decisions to make, so does your OM, why don't you give your H the chance to make some decisions as well?LIL, if you don't learn from this, the odds are not good.God Bless,JL

My H's OW was married to her first husband (less than a year) when she cheated with Husband #2. Then, 6 mos after marrying him...she slept with MY husband. Her 2nd husband told me that he basically married her out of guilt over the affair. Did it last? Obviously not. She has since moved away and is with yet another man. Relationships that start as affairs don't usually last. They are built on lies and deceit. I feel very sorry for your H if you still haven't told him. You are being very unfair to him, and to your vows. It's like the WS say that they can have all of the puzzle pieces, but us BS have to sit there with 47 pieces missing and try to complete the picture.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Could the mistake be the marriage? I mean yeah you got married but, what makes that the right choice to begin with? People get married
for the wrong reasons all the time, be it money, fame, power, isn't that socially and morally unaccepted also? <hr></blockquote>And if that is the case, the honorable person discusses the issue with the spouse, tries counselling, and if things don't work out, they divorce. THEN, they are free to form an intimate relationship with another person.What logic is there in following one mistake with another, that is, a marriage that is a mistake followed by an affair that is a mistake??What you are involved in is the ultimate betrayal of another human being. There is NOTHING that justifies such behavior. No one here denies that a married person can fall in love with OP. Feelings are feelings. But a person of character will have the self-control to do what is right.And what is right is to stop seeing OM, tell your H, and see if there is anything left of your M to save.Estes

We can also fix mistakes right? My question is why is the affair the mistake? Because it's morally and socially unaccepted? I agree, but it happens. Could the mistake be the marriage? I mean yeah you got married but, what makes that the right choice to begin with? People get married for the wrong reasons all the time, be it money, fame, power, isn't that socially and morally unaccepted also? OK, another question, what makes our situation prone to failure? Because everyone else's failed? Just because they failed doesn't mean that we will. Why can't we be part of the 10% of the success stories? Not possible? Then where did the 10 % come from, someone must be happy with their OM or OW" I can't help but to laugh (though it is not funny). My wife thought much the same, so did her OM. They had both read SAA so they KNEW all of this already but they were convinced that they were soul mates and that their relationship was different -- that the book and the statistics did not apply to them because what they had was so special. *puke*First big fight they had (she lied to him and he caught her in such) and that fantasy world of soul mates came crumbling down. They both fell off each others pedastals.What you and your OM have is not unique. Honestly, it is not even special. If the two of you really loved each other, you would have respected each other enough to have decided to come together outside of marriage. Instead, he loved you so little that he actively participated in sinful behavior with you. Instead of wanting better for you, he selfishly made you less of a person -- he helped to make you an adulterer.His letter to you is clearly a person that is grasping at straws to not lose his addiction. I would bet you money that if you were to call it off, he would get even more desperate instead of supporting your decision and being happy for you to save your marriage. My guess is that he will continue to be more concerned with his own gains and losses and what is important for you will continue to be secondary.Step back and read his letter from another light. It is very selfish. I see not support of you and your decisions in what he wrote -- only pressure for you to do what he wants.

Let's start with the CORRECT statistics, folks:From Dr. Frank Pittman's study--Of the marriages affected by infidelity, only 50% ended in divorce.Of those who divorced, only 12% actually married the OP.Of those 12%, 75% of those very quickly ended in divorce.So, only 3% remained married to the OP longer than 2 years.According to the study, there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing adulterer will be back with the betrayed spouse within 5 years than s/he will be with the OP in a stable M. <blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by lostinlove92111:
If you don't think that this will work between us and you go by the
statistics that have been brought up, then I guess we're on a dead-end
street to no-where. I don't think we are but everyone else that has "lived "
this say's it is. Well I guess they're experts right? Well, how about
this for a opinion ? <hr></blockquote>Well, how about this for my response to these smart-a$$ remarks:Why is "lived" in quotation marks? Did we just PRETEND to live it? Or just THINK or IMAGINE we lived it? Is his the only REAL reality? What an arrogant person! <blockquote>quote:<hr> I mean, where are the posts that have the 10% of
the success stories that ended up being together for the rest of their
lives and had all the conversations about kids, houses, dogs and
vacations come true? <hr></blockquote>As noted above, there is no such 10%.One way to evaluate this is to be logical. Hard in this situation, I know, but not impossible. The fact is we have no hidden agendas. We are saying what we're saying because we have been on the road you're on. We know where it leads, and we're trying to tell you where all the potholes and drop-offs are. We have nothing to gain by steering you wrong.The only reason we post to people like you is because we are compelled to help others to avert the disaster we can see ahead because we have what you do not have: 20/20 hindsight. We cannot go back in time and undo what happened in our lives and avert the pain we went through or put our loved ones through, but we CAN warn others that they are headed to the same place, and any success in helping others helps us feel like our pain and suffering has not been in vain.We have nothing personally to gain from your decision. We will be here to help you regardless of what you decide to do. We will always urge you to do what we have found beneficial and marriage building, but whether you do that or not will not make or break our personal lives.On the other hand, your OM does have a vested and selfish interest in your decision about your life and your marriage. He does have a hidden and maybe not-so-hidden agenda. Those of us who have been the OP, been with the OP, or been victimized by the OP are not fooled by him at all. We know exactly where he's coming from and what he's after. You've heard from nearly every voice of experience here. You can heed it or not as you see fit.Our message will not change. We will be supportive of every effort to rebuild marriage in the face of infidelity, and we will encourage changing course away from the secret second life of betrayal and dishonesty in M. Lasting happiness can only be found in honor.

Conqueror:Thanks for the correction re the statistics!!lostinlove: Please substitute "3%" for all my "10%"s in my previous post! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Seriously, though. I'm glad you're here. You sound like a decent person in a difficult position. By coming here, you're giving yourself a real chance to become a better person!Good luck to you,

Conqueror:Thought of another thing, maybe just a clarification issue:"Of the marriages affected by infidelity, only 50% ended in divorce.Of those who divorced, only 12% actually married the OP."So, 12% of the 50%, or 6% of Ms affected by As?"Of those 12%, 75% of those very quickly ended in divorce."If the 6% above is correct, then 75% of 6% is 4.5%, so only 1.5% of M'd A'ees stay together longer than 2 years.Pretty bleak picture, whatever the answer!RUN AWAY!

"Run away" from the A, that is, not the M! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

2long,I tried to cut and paste the information that was posted by someone who actually had access to Dr. Pittman's book, Private Lies. My understanding is that the study sample was 100 couples affected by infidelity who came to him for treatment.Out of the original 100 couples, 50 divorced.Of the 50 divorced WS, 12 married the OP.Of the 12 WS/OP marriages, only 3 were intact at the 2-year mark.So, out of the original 100 WS, only 3 were still with the OP 2 years later--a 3% "success" rate.The important point is that even of the 50 WS who divorced, a greater number of them reconciled with the original spouse even after divorce than remained with the OP, so that plus the 50 who did not divorce makes the odds for the original couple somewhere above 56% as compared to 3% for the WS/OP "couple".I hope someone who has access to the book can clarify anything I misread or miswrote.

Hi LIL,I'm one of the WS who married the OM...5 1/2 yrs ago. So, how's it going now??? Well, we've been separated for 10 wks....that's how. But, the good news is that we are getting back together this weekend. We both know NOW that there are major obstacles to overcome when your M starts out based on lies/deception...and those issues are not addressed up front. We know we have a lot of work to do, but we really do love each other adn are willing to do whatever it takes to work this out. But even so, it's not a good place to start a marriage from. The odds are definitely not with you!Good luck with your decision. The people here give really good advice.Anna

My point is still that your husband, if he is your friend like say he is, should have the knowledge to make HIS choice. Nothing your OM says changes that fact and I believe he even agrees. If you are determined to gamble with your future against those odds thats fine. You have no right to bring your husband along for it without his consent.--I had no delusions or expectations about how your OM would respond to what we post and I can think of a billion reasons and statistics to post back.. and im sure he would have the same reasons to convince you why what we say doesnt apply. So I wont try to convince him of anything. Good luck, to you, your OM, and your husband.
Of course I feel the most for your poor husband, but I really do hope ALL of you have good lives. Your situation is your mistake, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope you have the strength to do what you need to do to fix it.
-HI[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]

You also have to know that many WS's that marry their OP have an A by their OP or themselves. In other words, history repeats itself. Like the old saying goes, those that do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.But it's your life or is it your funeral?Joe

lostinlove, You have much good advice to think about. You will never know what your husband wants or is willing to do unless he "has all the pieces". Your OM has the hope your marriage will fail. You have a safety net or so you think. My W had OM and I both wanted her. W found out she was OW #1 and he was phoning OW #2. He moved 1200 miles away, W stayed because of the kids. They kept up phone calls almost every day. W was still torn six months after he moved away because she never let him go. Now he is engaged to OW #2, and we are separated. My wife told me it is scary to go from 2 men wanting her to neither one wanting her. She has a hard time understanding I still want her, even after all this. She fell for his words and now he is off with someone else. He moved on when he didn't think he was "winning".
Good luck but rmember you made vows to your husband, he should hear it all from you.

The reason Affairs don't have any hope of surviving as a relationship is because they are created in a bed of dishonesty. There is nothing honest about it. Affairs rarely survive after being revealed in the light of day. If there was no need to hide; the fantasy could not exist. If you're both so sure of being soul mates; why not test your theory. Be completely honest with your H. Bring it out in the open; see what happens.

Lil, there have been many things I've wanted to write to you but just haven't had the time. I want to share with you some of the things I learned the HARD way. But first I need to tell you that the letter from your OM not only sounds arrogant, but I also felt it was extrememly manipulative and demeaning to you. Why on earth, if you are having doubts, would you rely on your co-conspiritors opinion to make up your mind? You are fully capable of figuring out things for yourself...and if you don't feel you are, well then that's an issue that YOU need help with from a counselor, not this man. And if he is so sure that we are so clueless...then why isn't he man enough to come here and argue his points himself? He doesn't have a leg to stand on is why...because we know what we're talking about...unfortunatly.I know you feel like this man is meant to be with you...I felt the same way...heck, most betraying spouses do. It feels better than believing that you're weak and making a horrible immoral mistake. We're meant to be together so I'm not really committing adultry, I just haven't quite figured out how to leave yet....is that about it? My OM and I didn't even cross over into a PA until more than a year of having feelings for each other...and I was seperated from my H at the time. It made our guilt a bit easier to handle..because we weren't quite as "dirty" as your typical adulterer. We weren't trying to have our cake and eat it to, we were just struggling with getting this pesky marriage out of the way so we could be together.Luckily our situation drug out over a lengthy period of time. I say it was lucky because it gave the hot and steamies time to drizzle out to barely warm and fuzzies. I'd known the OM as long as I'd known my H, but KNOWING someone and DATING someone are very different things. Although we were never really able to "date", we still had many conversations and meetings where our "true" sides came out. He proved himself just another human being (as did I)...one I just happened to be able to communicate better with than my H. There were many little things that I began noticing too...things that were different from my H that I DIDN'T LIKE! I always teased my H that he was anal...but his "perfectionistic" side was far more appealing to me than the OM's leisurly side. If I wanted something built, my H would build it...if the OM wanted something, he bought it or hired it done. Got the same job done...but I admired my H far more for his efforts, creativity and ability. The OM was more sensitive...and I loved that about him...and it came to drive me nuts. He was SOOO sensitive about EVERTHING! It was like I'd be marrying a WIFE not a HUSBAND! I wanted a MAN and the OM was no more a man than my H. I came to realize that although the OM would indeed be a good provider, would not cheat on me, loved me very much, and would make a good husband...we would have issues to work through JUST LIKE H & I. That's when the brain started clicking.I pulled away from OM sometime last summer. He knew I needed space in order to get through my divorce. He tried to fake patience and understanding...but I'm a bit more perceptive than that. I knew he was angry and irritated. Honestly, I didn't care anymore. I wanted ME time and I didn't want him interfering with my thoughts anymore..whether on purpose or not. I spoke with him on the phone weekly, but nothing more than friendly chit chats. When we would get off the phone I would find myself relieved to have my space again. I turned to a board I'd been posting on for over a year. They knew the entire story...they knew me as well as any poster could. I started asking questions about marriage...and expectations...you name it. H and I didn't have passion...why was that? H told me I expected too much from a marriage...I said he didn't expect enough...who was right?The H and I met when I was about 19 yrs old. I grew up rough...was sexually abused a few times...my father was an alcoholic and a genius...lots of head games. Needless to say, as emotionally healthy as I felt...I had buried issues. Sex was one of those issues. I did it...but never really enjoyed it. I always tried to make it fun...jello on shower curtains, honey, outdoors in the rain. For all appearances H and I had a great sex life...sept that I didn't enjoy it...it was a chore that I scratched off a list of things to do. Never did have an O...figured that's just the way it was going to be. But then OM and I started connecting as more than just friends...and SHAZAAAM, the sparks were UNBELIEVABLE!!! Even without having actually touched each other we were sharing fantasies and driving each other nuts! AHHHA! All these years! It wasn't ME that was the problem, it was lack of chemistry!!! Or so I thought. Finally had my first O...read a book and did the homework...WOWIE!! I felt like a real woman!Thing is...you CANNOT compare the feelings I had for or with my H when I was 19 and the feelings I developed at 29. At 29 I was going through my "30 yr transition" (similar to a man's midlife, but hits a woman around 28-32) and was more emotionally ready to feel those things! The fact that I had no "baggage" with the OM and was seeking escape from a major depresssion made it perfectly understandable that I might find new and exciting feelings with him. I couldn't have found those with just anyone...because it had to be someone I trusted. I had so much resentment with my H that I certainly didn't trust him (emotionally) but the OM I did. It had nothing...NOTHING...to do with chemistry or being soul mates. My H and I have since discovered that we too can share passion.So what about "things in common". I mean, my H and I shared very few common interests...I am far more "intellectual" in the book sense...he's a laborer (but exceptionally good at it), I'm a thinker. He would watch the game show network and I wanted to watch Tech TV or be on the computer. I mean...it seemed the only common interest we shared was our son. Ok...so I move out and live on my own for a year. I learned a few valuable things about myself and my life. I HAD to take responsibility for bills, and working, and my son. If something was broken I had to take care of it. Many of the things I blamed my H for in my life...turned out to be my own failures as well. We had never gone anywhere...but then, when did I plan anything? I wanted my life to be different...but I didn't realize that I was the one responsible for making it that way...and that divorcing my H and finding someone else wasn't the answer. My marriage grew stale and my life grew boring...and I was just as much at fault as my H.So...divorcing my H wasn't going to make my life better...only I could do that...and although OM would make a good life partner, we would have issues to work through as well as a HUGE social black mark to add to our list of hurdles...then add to that a nice healthy dose of guilt and resentment towards the OM for supporting me in ditching a marriage I would might find out could have worked if I would have TRIED instead of just run away. Add to that the fact that I was increasingly growing more respect for my H and less for the OM...and the fact that I kept looking back to BEFORE the OM was more than a friend of the family...and realizing that I sure didn't think I had a bad marriage at the time. Well...my head finally just popped right out of my butt.There was no "right" choice. One man was not more than another. One road was not going to lead me to heaven and the other to hell. Each choice meant pain and work and commitment. And if I was going to choose to commit...why not to the man I shared a past with...the man I promised myself to love, cherish and honor all my life, for better or for worse? I loved my husband, but was not in love with him. So what..."in love" is an easy-come easy-go emotion. True love is way more difficult...and rewarding in the end.And for the record...I am totally "in love" with my H these days. It's not the full blown can't keep our hands off each other, can't think straight, kind of in love....it comes in waves. I'll be driving down the road and get a huge warm fuzzy...or even a hot and steamy once in a while! I LOVE the fact that I can be IN LOVE and still get my work done! I HATED how scatterbrained that teenage giddiness made me. This is a far more productive and enjoyable experience.Please think on this and take some time for YOURSELF. The OM is influencing you for his own selfish desires. I know how wonderful it is to feel desired...but it doesn't last. And when that's gone...what then? Another affair? A new marriage? Or THEN you'll do the work? Why not now? It doesn't matter that it CAN work with him...what you need to answer for yourself is are you SURE it CAN'T work with your H?

thank you everyone. You have given me a lot to think about & I appreciate all the time you've taken to respond to my cry for help.Last night, OM and I decided to end the A so that I can focus on my marriage & give it a chance to work. I know that you have no sympathy for my OM...but he is a good man. He does love me & would do anything for me...and he is proving that beyond any doubt by letting me go & being strong & supportive of my need to do thisAnyway, I'm still in the "fog", as I guess you would all tell me...because I still feel that the OM is the love of my life....and on Day 1 of my separation from him...I feel as though I've died inside....and that I'm in a living hell...It's going to be a long road. I haven't stopped crying all day. But...I feel in my heart it's the best thing to do...Either I discover that I love my H and want to make it work...or I discover that the marriage is not salvageable & that way I would go to OM with a sense that I tried everything I could & we'd be able to start a relationship on a better foot....And if he's still willing to give it a shot, then I know that it really was meant to be.Living a double life has taken it's toll on me....on OM...and on my H, even though he doesn't know the whole story yet...I hate that I'm the cause of all this pain....My health has suffered tremendously...I'm always sick...And I just want things to be right again, for everyone.So, step one is in progress....DOES IT ALWAYS HURT THIS BAD? Step Two...telling my H...I'm going to see a counselor next week & then I'll tackle this one...Wish me luck....[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

Yes, it always hurts that bad. And you want to know what hurts even worse? When you realize...I mean FULLY realize that you do love your H and that the consequences of your actions have caused him tremendous pain, and possibly cost you your marriage.We're not being hard on the OM...he may well be a good man, mine was as well...that doesn't justify his involvement with you. No matter how "good" a man an OM intends to be...wooing a married woman is an action of the weak and selfish. It just is.I'll give you yet another tip. Your current "attempt" at giving the marriage another try will most likely be a miserable failure. WHAT? Then why put yourself through this hell??? Because...in your current mindset you are looking to "do the right thing" - but unfortunatly the fog translates that to "make sure the marriage is a failure before baling out to find true happiness". Needless to say, that is not the formula to success. I'd be willing to bet you and the OM departed ways with you saying something to the effect of "I'll always love you" and him saying something to the effect of "I'll wait for you forever". As romantic as it all sounds...it's only true if you are unwilling to pull yourself from fantasyland.Marriage is work...no matter whom you pick as your partner. I hope you keep posting with us. The absolute BEST thing you could do is ask questions. Take care!

You really haven't tried 'everything' if your H does not know the truth.

**bump** for LIL

update...still trying to separate from OM. I go a couple of days & feel so lost. 
what advice do you have for me regarding telling my husband about the OM? So, for those of you who've been through this.....do you have any suggestions on how to break my husband's heart in a way that causes the least amount of pain???? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Is there a rigt way to reveal this aweful secret?thanks in advance for your continued support....[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

Bump means that when somebody posts a message in a thread, the thread gets 'bumped' to the top of the forum board with the intention of attracting more attention and participation from the people that normally contribute advice on the forum board.Beign a former BS all I can tell you that when you break the news to your H about the A, is that you try to show some remorse for the pain that you have caused thru your A. Tell him that you want to work on your M but that the pain of loss you are feeling for ending the A is so great that you will need his support, patience, and love to overcome it.You also have to realize that what you are going thru is what many former WS also went thru and overcame thru hard work, patience, love, and support. I know that it is hard to feel proud about anything you've done, but you should hold your head high now that you made the decision to end the A, tell your H the truth, and make a serious attempt to rebuild your M.May God give you the strength, hope, courage, and wisdom to do what is right for you and your H. God bless.Joe

Hello, LilI am FWS in our marriage and I think we are recovering nicely...Some advice for you and others...1) It does NO good to bash the OM. As a WS, I felt as responsible as the OW for the affair. When nasty things were said about the OW, I knew that they could just as easily be said about me. This was an ineffective tack my wife attempted early on to try to "help me let go of her". 2) I don't think there is anything wrong with making the decision to "do the right" thing even if your heart isn't in it. Believe me, your heart won't be in it for a while, but if you continue no contact, you'll give your heart time to come around. You've made an excellent first step.3) All is not lost just because you stumble...but you must make a serious effort at no contact or your marriage has NO chance.4) As far as telling your husband - you have to tell him or you'll never have the chance to fix the problems that created the affair. I tried your logic...limited disclosure, etc. It was a miserable failure. He is how I would appraoch it: You must tell him you had an affair and tell him you answer ANY and ALL questions he has honestly. Once he knows about the affair, you have to let him decide how much he wants to know. Once, out of anger, I shared some details with my wife that she didn't ask for. It was unnecessary and hurtful.Low

aaah yes, the calling to listen to his voice deal. Hey, I've been there done that. Then he got caller ID so I couldn't get away with that anymore. Thank goodness. I will say, though, that it only prolongs the pain. Because each time you do backslide or hear his voice...it all starts over again. I remember that well. I can tell you exactly what will change that and put your focus back on the marriage....telling your husband. Then whatever longings you have will be greatly overshadowed by the consequences of your actions. You'll see the pain that he feels because the person he loves and trusts believes she is better suited with another. He needs to know...if you are to move forward in ANY way he needs to know.

Hello LiL,I am a FWS and FBS. Been M over 10 years now. My H is also a FWS and FBS. I had a A from 98-2000. The contact ended in 2000. The last I heard from OM was a email saying his divorce was finalized and through it all, he and his now ex-wife, were getting along okay. At the end of it he said he was glad to hear from me and that he would email me later that day. I returned his email with a reply that I went back to my H (we were separated at the time) and we were getting along ok too. At the end of my email I told him to stay in touch. I have not heard from him since. I'm so thankful for that. 2 years later, I still think about him, but only when I am alone or upset at my H. Because of this, I know now that I was just using the OM as a crutch. The OM was using me as a crutch as well. I also still don't feel any "passion" towards my H to this day, but getting real with myself, I know that is only because I still hold onto the OM secretively which causes me not to feel the passion I should for my H. It is my way of holding onto the feelings I felt with the OM when he touched me, kissed me, or what have you. I am still having an A mentally which effects me physically. I'm still going through the effects of that withdrawal that is mentioned so much throughout MB. You see, I am a addict and I always will be. So is my H. We are in recovery and will be for the rest of our lives. My H found out about my A through someone else and the A's I didn't know that my H had, he told me about. Turns out my H was cheating on me our entire 10 years of M. 1 or 32 (my H's total OW), the effects are the same. 1 is too many. I think finding out from other people, through my own investigation, or by mistake, was more devestating for him then him telling me on his own. GET REAL WITH YOURSELF, LiL. What is your payoff for holding onto this OM? You see, no matter what anyone else says to you, only you can make the choices for yourself. You are either M or you are not. There is no in between. You tell your H or you don't. That is up to you. Either way, you have to live with the consequences. You will be labeled a cheater for the rest of your life and so will this OM, whom by the way has no rights to you or your M, so stop the insanity, and get real. He is a crutch and that is all. YOU EITHER WANT TO BE MARRIED OR YOU DON'T. You owe it to yourself, your H, and this OM to make the choice. Regardless, you are choosing to hurt yourself and this OM, but your H has no choice in the matter. No matter how you look at it or rationalize it, YOUR H IS THE VICTIM HERE. If you are strong enough to enter and carry on this A, then you are strong enough to deal with consequences of your actions. That is how I see it. Plain fact is, your H SHOULD know and you have to end this A before any of the "real" problems can be solved."I know I need to end this A, BUT....."(your words)But what? anything you say after the BUT is what your true feelings are about the matter. You have already made your choice. If you KNOW you need to end it, then what is the problem? END IT ALREADY. You don't know how to end it or is it that you really don't want it to end? What are you afraid of if you do? What are you afraid of if you don't?Get out of the clouds, LiL, and get real with yourself and your H. Things can only change if you want them to change. Only you can make that happen. THERE IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE AN BETWEEN. That is why you feel so bad and so stuck. GET FROM IN BETWEEN all the bull****. You and your H need help. You did good to post here on MB. I'm glad you found it. Hear, I mean REALLY hear the advice, read all the Harvey concepts, and read as many books as possible. It will only make you stronger and more wise. By ALL MEANS, get some counseling. TELL YOUR H BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Just my thoughts. Take care and keep posting.
INTHECLOUDSPS. Are you afraid to tell your H because you don't want to hurt him or is it that you don't want to lose him? Again, you are married or you are not. Make the choice.

update...still trying to separate from OM. I go a couple of days & feel so lost that I email him or call his home # when I know he's not going to be home, just so I can hear his voice on the machine..Still feel totally in love with him & feeling empty without him...like my life is over...like I'm giving up my chance to have something wonderful.........but I'm moving forward & doing what I think needs to be done....And everytime you re-establish contact -- everytime you get your quick "fix" even if you only hear his voice on the machine, you start your recovery ALL OVER AGAIN from day one.You cannot hope to break your addiction to the OM by sneaking a "quick smoke" or a "quick hit" just to hold you over for a while longer.You NEED to FEEL the horrible withdrawal that WILL occur in order to you to get over the OM and to move closer to your H. And, as always, you need to tell your H.I can't force feelings that I don't feel. Nope, you can't that is why you should STOP acting on feelings and starting acting on thinking. It was feelings that got you into this mess. You know (thoughts) that it was wrong, you know now that it is wrong, but you can't help but to feel otherwise so you act on your feelings (call his voicemail for example) instead of acting on your thoughts.You have acted for far too long based on feelings. It is time you go back to whatever moral and ethical compass you once had that drives yor thoughts and start acting on such.My formally wayward wife was given a pie chart from her counselor that had thinking, feeling, and acting in equal pies. Her counselor stated that if you have two parts in agreement, the other part will eventually follow. What that means is that if you think lovingly about your H, and you act lovingly to your H, the feelings will eventually follow.Feelings are a horrible measure of reality. Stop depending on them to determine your actions. Believe me, when you H finally finds out, you will be praying that he will also act on thinking and not feelings. In my case, I still struggle with my feelings toward my wife but I act on what I think, not what I feel, and I can already tell (4 months past Dday and 2 months into recovery) that my feelings have changed and continue to change.question #2: what advice do you have for me regarding telling my husband about the OM? Do you tell the whole story? Do you reveal who the OM is (my H knows the OM)? Is it less painful for the BS if the A was not physical? If it was physical, is it best to spare feelings & say that sex wasn't involved? What's the best way? Letter? With a counselor? Should I plan to leave him alone once I tell him? I mean, should I stay with friends? Will he need space? Or do I not want to leave him alone? How much do I tell upfront? What details do I include? I want this to be as painless as possible (like that's possible)...First, there is no 'best' way. Second, seek professional advice before you do this. I would NOT do it while with the counselor as that is very disrespectful to your H, he may feel trapped and embarrased for this to be shared in front of a stranger. Third, answer each and every question he asks. If he is like me, he may even ask questions that he will regret asking in the future (negative visual images) but it is his right to know the truth and any attempt by you to hide it or to not be forthcoming will drive him very far away.Be prepared for the worst possible reaction. He may want to divorce you. He may leave you, he may want you to leave. You are not telling him for your benefit. You are telling him for his. Know that by telling him, you are starting to act lovingly toward him once again. You are allowing him to be the master of his own destiny. By keeping it from him, you are attempting to control him and his future.Go in with no expectations. Don't expect him to understand, to be kind, nice, etc. If he says he hates you, accept it and follow his wishes (for now). There will be a time after the initial shock when you can and should go back to revisit the issue but you have to allow him time to process this news. It WILL BE the most painful thing you could have ever done to him and very well may be the most difficult thing will have ever faced. At this time, you concern needs to be on him and not you.There is no possible way to do it nicely. Some things simply do not have that option.I will say that sincerity, honesty, lack of defensiveness, and lack of blame on your part will go a long way. He is not responsible, in any manner, for what you did. Please don't attempt to explain why you did it in relation to the state of you marriage and also please do not defend yourself. Now that there will be a time in the future for you to address the marital issues that lead to the A and that there will be a time where you are afforded an opportunity to defend yourself.You are taking a very bold and courageous step. Please know that regardless of what happens, that you will grow and become a more mature person by doing this very painful but very right and necessary thing.

Lil:
As many people here have said already you are getting some very wounderful advice. I am glad to see you might be taking some of it to heart.
I am just going to add a couple of things that have not been mentioned yet. OTHER PEOPLE INVOLVED. As everyone has said you must tell your H everything he has the right to know. As a former WS and one that did not tell my BS untill see found out on her own. (Which made it MUCH worse & we could not save our M)
Now once you do tell him and if you or he choose to file for the Big-D ...... understand that there are going to be many changes in your life you will have to face your Family members & even worse his family, all of your friends & all of his friends & so on.......With everyone knowing what you were involved with. You will loose some mutual friends when they are forced to choose beetween the two of you (If you can't save the M) you will be asked all the time what happend and it will take some time to repair your credibility. Your OM may not be welcome with open arms by some of your friends with them knowing what has happend. This is just the beginning so I hope you & your H can work it out. If not be ready for some hard times ahead. There is life after an A but it will take awhile to find ( It took me 6 years ) and Odds are very high your OM will not be around very long (mine was there for aprox. 8 months untill real life showed up and not the fantasy) Good luck with your future & God Bless
P.s I am now very happily married to a wounderful wife but I had to learn a lot of hard leasons first.

LIL: You wanted my help, but I have a few questions that need to be answered. I have not read everything, but I have read enough.1) What does OM have that your H is lacking?
2) What does your H have that your OM is lacking?
3) Can your OM actually give you what you desire for the rest of your life? If so, how do you know?
4) How did you feel when you first started dating your H?Now for my opinion on all the replies: I feel that everyone has given you EXCELLENT advise and you should listen & act upon it. Your H needs to know so he can get on with his life. You have been very selfish on keeping him on the back burner this whole time. I feel that it is long overdue, and your H deserves to have an opinion in this A. I pray that he chooses to want to work things out with you, because I fear that you will end up alone once the fantacy is over and reality sets in. Remember, I've been in this situation before and know other people who have been there including my H. Nothing good will ever come from it. I hope you make the right choice (you know which one that is). I will always be there for you.Oh, by the way, you have been married for 3 years, not 2. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Please do NOT keep anything from him that he wants to know. Don't try to 'spare' his feelings, you'll find you're really trying to avoid the consequences of the truth.If you doubt this, read 'Shattered Vows' at findarticles.com and "Torn Asunder" which will help you to understand your H's viewpoint. NOW is the time to come completely clean, not 6 years from now like my H did. It's much worse finding out bits and pieces and years later.Please do the right thing

c[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

Just thought I'd give everyone an update. It's been a while....

Well, I told H about A about a month ago. He took it better than I thought he would...and told me that he wants to stay & work on our marriage. He has forgiven me (I'm a little worried that he hasn't worked through all the emotions since he forgave me so quickly)....and we are seeing a marriage counselor every week to work through the issues that brought us to this point.

During this process, I've really gained a lot of respect for my H. He still loves me...and that I'm still the same person....that I just did a bad thing, but that he knows I'm still a good person & still the woman he loves...and tells me that he knows that he also had a role in all this. He knows that we are both responsible for creating the environment that allowed me to have the A. And he doesn't place all the blame on me. He's very loving & determined to get things back on track.

My H is being wonderful & giving me every reason to stay with him....and I feel like I'm learning a lot about him that I never knew. Now I just somehow need to get myself into the right frame of mind to make my marriage work. At this point, I'm still mouring the loss of the love I feel for my OM. I miss him & my feelings have not changed even though there has been no contact for over a month now....

I love my H, but I'm going through the motions at this point. I keep hoping that at some point the motions will become natural & that I will want to be affectionate & intimate with my H as my feelings grow & this motions become a habit. At this point, I still have not been able to have sex with my H. I still have no desire. We cuddle & hold hands, but I don't want to get more intimate than that...even kissing him with passion will be a huge step for me. All we've done is given each other "peck" kisses. He tries for more, but I pull away...I'm not sure why....or how to get past this.

I think we're on the right track & I think that couseling is helping us....I'm discovering alot about myself & how I deal with life. It's been very eye opening....something I should have undergone years ago, if not for my marriage, for myself...And I definitely feel a whole lot better having this all out in the open. When I finally told my H last month, it was like a huge weight being lifted from my shoulders. I'm finally able to sleep again. And I'm no longer sick all the time.

I'm just afraid that I won't be able to get past the "sex thing" & obviously that is a huge issue & very important in a marriage.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again for all your advice. You've given me the strength to get to this point....

LIL,
I am so glad that you finally were able to tell your H. I know the feeling of that weight being lifted from your shoulders. You did the right thing.

As far as intimacy goes. Just take it one step at a time. For me, that part was pretty easy. But one thing that helped us to reconnect even more, was to dig out all the old love letters and pictures from when we were dating.

It was an amazing experience. It was like going back to our roots and made us realize why we fell in love in the first place.

If that doesn't help or if you don't have anything like that. Try going on little trips together. Or just do things together like you did when you dated. That has helped us rekindle things for us.

Right now you are going through withdrawal. Whenever you feel down about missing OM. Redirect that energy to your H. I'm sure he can give you everything and much more than the OM ever did.

Give it time. It will happen for you! My thoughts are with you.
1step

You WILL get past the "sex thing" and any other thing that comes your way. Don't stress yourself out about it...it's natural while you're in withdrawl. And you WILL be in withdrawl for a while yet. Give yourself time. It sounds like you're much better than you were. If you have any specific questions...just ask. Hubby even commented how similiar our situations are. Take care.

I hope that your H is getting some counseling in order to deal with your A and your symptoms of withdrawl from OM. D-day doesn't necesarily mean that a BS will feel all the devastating emotions that very day and in the case of your H, the emotional D-day may come later on, and so he needs good counseling to help him deal with all the steps of marital recovery.

Remember that you now know more about who your H really is than you do about your OM.

I came across your post and i have to tell you that the entire thing brought back so many uncomfortable feelings for me becuz over a year ago I was in your exact shoes..only my story didn't end as happily as yours will..i know.

quick recap: In Dec of 1996, met a wonderful man, so easy to talk to, so loving, so sensitve, kind unselfish, my best friend.. I married him..I was so happy, or so I thought... In April of 1999, we moved to a new city, new people, new job.. at new job, met new man (such a charmer) within 3 months, we were involved in a full fledged affair..so blinded by the fog, i convinced myself it was okay, after all, I never really 'was in love' with my husband, He was just always my best friend, my big brother..

finally told husband in october of 1999.. before that i can't tell you how many times i tried to end it with the OM but time and time again, i was sucked in..by jan of 2000, i moved out on my own, OM still was dating other women and was not ready to make a committment to me although i had separated from my H, liked he asked

Finally in July of 2000, OM moved in and it was not all a bed of roses... In Dec of 2000, OM decided he didn't wnat me anymore.. The pain was unbearable, I voluntarily checked myself into an inpt rehab becuz I could not deal with the pain and guess who came to my rescue ..to see me everday, bring stuff animals, my H who was still waiting in the wings for me to hopefully come back to work on our marriage..

In Jan of 2001 I quit my job, went to live with my H "as friends" till i could get myself together..The whole time I was hoping OM would come back to me so i pursued with the divorce..On Jan 19 2001 my divorce was final.. i was still room mating with my H who thru it was was wonderful..even let me vent and cry on his shoulders for my OM..

In Feb, i got my own apt again.. OM followed me and In May of 2001 OM and I got married, the whole thing was a whirlwind and was utter hell.. To this day my ex h, emails my sister and is still hoping i will come back and make it work..

The only thing that has made our marriage last this long, is we now have a personal relationship with Jesus and we are truly repentant and if the whole thing had to be done over, we would have never did it.. but God is faithful and he is so full of mercy..

It's been rocky but with God's help and love we will make this marriage last... Good luck to you

LiL,

I am glad that you have told your H about the affair. I think it is probably normal for you not to have feelings of intimacy for your H. But, perhaps you need to talk with him about this and explain that from all you have read this is rather normal until you are through with withdrawal.

I think you realize that failure on your part to reestablish intimacy with your H will very likely end your marriage. Because it will show him you are not truely in love with him.

I am very busy today, but I think you should read SKM's Chronicles. If you do a search on the word Chronicles in the recovery section this thread will come up. It shows her progress as she recovered from her affair.

As the coffee man suggested your H will probably need help with this. He is probably still pretty numb as it has only been a month. This whole process is very hard on both parties. But, you will come to realize it is harder on your H because he is absolutely powerless at this point. He can Plan A and do his best to forgive, although he will NEVER forget, nor should he, but what he wants most, YOU is out of his reach and control. He must trust that you will work through this and become his W again. It is hard to Trust when in his position.

So talk with him, tell him what you are thinking and feeling, express your hopes your fears, and let him be as much a part of this as you can.

In any event, I am glad to hear that you did tell him. He reacted as I suspected he might from what you had said about him. He does love you, you know?

God Bless,

JL

Another Update....

Things had been going ok in counseling over the past month, but still, I felt disconnected from my H...I still want nothing to do with him intimately.

I think alot of this had to do with the guilt and remorse that I'm feeling. And also because a part of me was still holding on to my OM. When me and OM parted, I told OM that I was giving myself a time period to work things out & that if things didn't change, I would leave...so, really, I left the door open. I think this has stood in the way of me moving on completely.

Well, a couple of weeks ago, our counselor gave me the assignment to write a letter putting all my feelings down & asking for my guilt to be lifted...so that I could forgive myself (which my H has already done). And then once written, to burn it & have the guilt feelings go up in flames with the letter. It took me a week (I thought it was korny at first), but I did it. I also included in my letter that I wanted my heart to let go of the spot it was holding for my OM so that I could totally devote myself to my H. Just writing this all out helped a great deal.

Then, I also wrote to my OM and told him that things were going well & that he needs to move on...basically, I told him goodbye...for real this time. Even though I had not seen or talked to him in over a month, the thought of "us" was still there because I knew he was waiting in the wings. Well, I finally closed the door. I do still love him & he'll always be in my heart & I'm still mourning his loss, but I also love my H and he's the one that I promised to love, cherish, and protect. I know this is the right thing. I just wish I could've realized this sooner before so many people had to go through such pain.

Then, our counselor gave me an assignment to do something nice for my H to show my intentions...I bought him an unexpected gift one day....Then, during the same week, I surprised him on his lunch & took him to have a picnic in the park. And now, we just made reservations to take a vacation, just the two of us, to re-connect & focus exlusively on each other in Jamaica-Sandals Ocho Rios!! We're very excited. I think it will do us good...but we're also realistic & know that this isn't a magical fix it all trip. We have a lot of work to do....and to continue doing throughout our marriage so that it will not only be repaired, but so that it will continue to grow.

It's just amazing how much things have changed over the last couple of weeks. I have hope once again...and really feel like we're going to make it. I'm really very lucky to have my H. He is a wonderful man for standing by me. And I love him all the more for it.

Thanks everyone...

[ July 24, 2002, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: lostinlove92111 ]

(((Lostinlove)))

I was the first to reply to you on this thread ... I am so pleased with your demonstration of brave integrity.

Rebuilding and recovery has it's ups and downs .... baby steps.

We'll hold your hand whenever you need us.

Keep posting!

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

LiL,

Congratulations and have a good time on your vacation.

God Bless,

JL

Well, on Friday, I received a box from my OM at work. It contained every letter, card, picture, etc. that I had ever given him.

OUCH!

Just seeing his return address on the box made my heart leap. And I felt I was right back to square one....the withdrawal pains came back with a vengence. It sucked. Just when things started to go along really well, he did this. It hurt me really bad, but shouldn't I be pissed too?!! This was so insensitive and selfish of him to do this to me, yet it made me want to confort him & go to him because I know he's hurting over this & that he loves me. UGH!!!

Well, I told my H what happened right after I calmed down. I told him that I felt I needed to be honest about it because I was feeling a little sad over it & I wanted him to know why & that it had nothing to do with me and him. He appreciated me telling him, but it must have hurt him to know that I even gave OM "stuff".

Anyway, me and H went away for the weekend & by the time we came back, I was alot better....but this really set me back....destroyed a lot of the progress I was making. I can really see how no contact is so important for recovery!!!

And to top it off, now I feel guilty over hurting OM....he told me that his heart was crushed into a million pieces....I'm responsible for that. I hate that I've hurt people that I love & care about...I wish there was a way that I could help him through this....but the only way to do that would jeopardize my M & I'm not willing to do that...again.

Any thoughts?

"Any thoughts?" ... sure

NC is not only good for you and your M ... it is good for the OM as well ! OM's recovery is also set back with contact, visual, audio, email, objects ... whatever.

Do not hurt OM , hurt yourself, or hurt your H by any contact at all. Now you understand why.

Bless you.

This will be better in time. You've got one hell of-a husband there !

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I know how you feel LIL...I've been there too. My XOM was a good person who made some terrible mistakes...but he hurt a great deal in all this too. We all did. Really, the best thing you can do is let him move on. You will get past the pain and sadness too. He knew you were a married woman, and hopefully one day he will realize the value in that. What's done is done, you can't change the past to make the present better for him. He made his choices. I felt terrible guilt...still do occasionally...for what the OM went through...but it doesn't change how much MORE my husband went through. So I put my focus there...because he's the one who deserves my attention and love.

Hang in there. You've done a great thing!

Well, it's me again with an update...and also a request for more help/guidance.

My H and I had a wonderful time in Jamaica. The first couple of days were still a little ackward, but eventually we started to re-connect & have fun together. It was the perfect vacation. We enjoyed each others company....And the week was filled with romance & passion, which we had been missing for a long time. We even renewed our wedding vows on the beach in Ocho Rios!!

When we came back, our marriage counselor "graduated" us from counseling & told us she thought we were ready to proceed without her. So, things are very positive. We've remained focused on each other, and moving forward.

There is just one thing that I'm still struggling with. I know what I did was wrong. But at the same time, what I felt with OM was real & special. I'm having a hard time getting him out of my head. I've had no contact, but he's been in my thoughts. I keep feeling that I'm needing some kind of additional closure, but I'm not sure what that is. Part of me is telling me that I need his forgiveness for what I put him through (even though he was a willing participant). Part of me wants to know what he's been up to...to know that he's ok...I guess it's just hard for me to move on completely til I know he's ok and doesn't hate me. It's because I care so much about him. My heart just won't let me be angry with him for his part in all this, which would make this easier....And my heart just won't let me not worry about him & how he is...or what he thinks about me. But I don't see a way to give myself this closure. I know I can not have any contact. That would destroy all the work my H and I have done...and since I know my H wouldn't want me to do this, I won't...I will respect my H and my marriage. But is there anything I can do to feel better about this without having contact? I really feel this is holding me back, but I can't see the answer? And my anxiety over this seems to be increasing for some reason. I'm becoming preoccupied with it...

Any suggestions?

Thank you.