Need Support Desperately - Marriage Builders® Forums

I don't know how much longer I can take this !

Last night H returned home from business trip, remember, he's staying with his mother. I was supposed to pick him up at the airport.

Night before last OW called me, said some pretty awful things to me, that's when I called WH and said, I've throwing in the towel, I don't deserve this. She's a mean and vicious person. He got very angry at me and OW (supposedly). Said this was all going to end that he's tired of us both pulling on his chains and he was going to break.

Calls last night, getting a ride from the airport, but wants to come HERE so I can give him the keys to his company van... (he has a spare set). 2 male coworkers drive him to MY house where he proceeds to take his luggage out of their van, and load them into MY truck so I can drive him to his mother's. His mothers is half way between my house and the airport.

He seems distant, but upbeat, but almost set in stone. I am dropping him off, and he says, let's go get coffee. So we're sitting in the Dunkin Donuts parking lot, for about 2 hours. I don't know WHY this is happening. He's telling me he knows this isn't going to work, he doesn't know if he has any feelings for me. I'M STAYING POSITIVE THE WHOLE TIME, not pushing. Just stating MY part. That I'm going to go on with my life, but I'm not closing the door on our M.

He goes on to tell me he put an end to the phone calls. He doesn't want me calling to harass OW any more. I said...I do not call her. He got a little irritated and said, well it's gonna stop. I'm telling you both the same thing.

While we are sitting there, and talking what seems a futile discussion... OW CALLS ME ON MY CELLPHONE. I looked at the cellphone, saw who it was and said, that's the OW. He looked at my phone, and seemed very aggitated. He said...don't answer it. So I didn't. Then the phone rang like there was a voicemail. It was her calling me back, with a restricted number. I picked up the phone.

She started screaming at me, wanted to know if H was with me, that he's supposed to be "with her" now, and she wants to know whats going on with him and I.

All I say is , you're in TEXAS (we live in jersey), how is he with you..... at THAT point... she went off like a rocket, just like she had the night before. H wanted to hear what she had to say.

She proceeds to be the cruelest things on 2 legs, telling me he wants her, he leaves all these messages on her cell phone how much he loves her, how much he wants to be with her, how he told her he never loved during our whole 6 years together, and wants to know if I'm going to back out of the picture for HER. She doesn't stop there. She gets much crueler, he is LISTENING to her the whole time. HE is holding the phone. She is throwing zingers my way that are making my stomach roll, and tears are falling down my face. He motions to me to keep her interested in speaking. I DO THIS.

Here is where it gets really confusing. He won't tell her he's on the phone, he won't say anything, he mutes my phone and says you're going to conference me in. I DO THIS. He gets on the phone with her, starts reprimanding her. She's repeating....just answer my question....just answer my question... I couldn't understand what her question was, but he said she was in no position to ask him any questions. That he told her the night before not to call me, and she did it anyway. She must have said something, and all he said was but that's not the right way...why did you say those things to her. This goes on for about 30 minutes. I LET THIS HAPPEN. He tells her he will call her later that the conversation is over.

I take him to his mother's it's now 3 hours. He tells me he's sorry for having to put me through that. Somebody had a point to prove, and somebody went over the line. That he knows it hurt me, but he had to hear it for himself.

Proceeds to tell me not to cry, he's sorry, but I should feel glad I was able to prove to him my point, and that it was a GOOD thing for him to see the other side of a person. Tells me he will come over today, and wants me to get my numbers changed.

HELP ME. I CAN NOT SET MYSELF UP FOR THIS. I MET A HUGE EN. BUT AT THE COST OF ALL I'VE WORKED ON THIS LAST WEEK.

GOD HELP ME, AS I WAS WRITING THIS POST SHE JUST CALLED ME AGAIN !!!!!!!

I left a message on his cell phone, that she had called.

PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME....TELL ME WHAT TO DO !!

Yikes! You did very well. Give yourself credit for that. Now change your phone number. You should not put up with this abuse. Next do the 180's and get on with your life.

Stay in Plan A, but be gone alot. You need to take care of you.

He just called me back. Asked me to keep my cellphone off, and that he'd call me later on the home phone. (is he trying to have his cake and eat it too ?)
God help me I want off this rollercoaster. I can't live like this.
I feel like I've fallen back 2 steps and it is all happening all over again. What a crappy day. It's raining and I have NO energy from the ordeal last night. I do not know how us FS survive this mess ! Kudos to everyone for just getting up the next day !

You can also have her arrested for harrassment in no time for these phone calls. I wouldn't put up with them. All you have to do is go to your local phone company and get records of the calls, they can give you numbers even if they don't show up on caller ID. Then you go to the police, they will contact the TX police. She needs to get set straight. My WH OW was arrested when her H was cheating on her for harrassment to the other woman also.

I'm trying SO hard not to do anything because I know I'm not thinking straight. One minute, I want to get myself out of this and just forget about him. That choice, means eventually, I'll be over him.
But if I keep playing this game the end never comes !

<blockquote>quote:<hr />But if I keep playing this game the end never comes !<hr /></blockquote>Then don't play the game. You don't have to. Her incessant calling you is her problem. You don't have to pick up the phone and listen to her poisonous talk. Delete her voice mails. And don't bother your H with this. If he asks, tell him how many times she has called and that you are ignoring her, for your own sake.

Do the positive things. Change your cell phone number TODAY.

Your WS is clearly in the fog, but he is at the beginning of seeing this OW clearly. He sees that she is mean, vindictive, and nasty, while you are composed and fair and only trying to protect yourself. This will speak volumes to him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I'm trying SO hard not to do anything because I know I'm not thinking straight. One minute, I want to get myself out of this and just forget about him. That choice, means eventually, I'll be over him.<hr /></blockquote>You are right to stay the course for now. Of course you want to get yourself out of this, right now, and end the pain! It is the a sane reaction to an insane situation. But reacting out of pain and aking the choice to "forget about him" won't likely have the result you think it will.

Have you read SAA? Keep poring over the information on this site. Do the best Plan A that you can. Your husband does not seem to have cut you out of his life so you still have the ability to show him that you care about him and his needs, and then let him make his own comparisons.

Hang in there. I know this is so tough. Your pain is palbable. It will get better.

~ Snow

Today was both a good day and a bad day.
WH called me after he got done work about (2 PM)... asked me how I was....I said I was doing good, how was he. He said fine, and asked me if I wanted him to "stop by". I tried not to sound overly enthusiastic, and said sure.

We had lunch. It was tense and awkward, and it took me every ounce of will power not to push. During lunch, I made sure I paid attention, if he needed a napkin, or more ice. He complained of a neckache from sleeping on the plane last night. I asked him if he wanted to relax on the couch, and I'd rub his neck. He said sure. When we first sat down there it was nerve racking.

After awhile, his mood seemed to lighten, and I could see him relax for the first time in 2 weeks now (probably longer).

This was just comforting from my point. I did NOT try to seduce him. It ended up being the other way around. We spent hours making love, and we slept afterwards cuddled up. This made me nervous, I didn't know if it was the right thing, I haven't gotten my copy of SAA yet !

We then had dinner here. We watched some TV. He JUST left to go home to his mother's. When I walked him out, I asked him if I was doing the right thing by him, he asked me what was that, and I said, standing by you. He said yes. There was both relief in sadness in his eyes. I tried not to ask the next question, but it came out anyway.

This is exactly what I said....." I know you're going through a rough time right now... and I wish I could help you, but I know you have to get through this yourself." Then I asked, "are you going to be okay?" He said yeah, I'll be okay. Then I dropped the bomb and asked..."do you think we'll be okay"... he said... "we'll be okay".... I said ..."are you sure?"... he said...."I'm sure".

He seemed sad when he left (he spent 8 hours here today with me...his cell phone going off intermittently, pager going off... he ignored them)... (the fog).... we have plans to have dinner here tomorrow night. I know he will go back to his mother's and talk to the OW on the phone tonight. I'm scared to death of this.

I know I can only control my actions, and I may be setting myself up for a BIG hurting....but I think I did the right thing.

Someone tell me what their take on all this is ???

You did fine. Check out the 180's. Do not try to rush this, or ask relationship questions.

Thank you. I'll put 100% into this. I have to. I love my husband. I do. I wish I didn't sometimes, but I do, he's my best friend. If there's a chance for us, to make it through this, and come out better and stronger.....then I have to risk it.

It's hard, every second since D-Day has been tramatic, but I'm making the best of an impossible situation.

I hope I don't look stupid in the end. I guess it's not about that. It's about what's in my heart, and what I'm willing to do.

If it is meant to be, it will be. I have to just fly by the seat of my pants right now.

Thanks for your support ! I'll be needing a lot of it right now through this rough time.

Stick with Plan A. That is where to start. It is difficult to do, but is necessary. It is awful at first, but does get better. Everyone told me that things would get better, but I could not imagine it. But here I am, happy again with a good life.

Hang in there and come here for support.

I'm nervous folks. Scared out of my wits. I hate not knowing anything. So I'm assuming I'm definately in Plan A right now. My WH is coming over for dinner tonight. He said last night he would call me later today, he has some stuff to do today. He's not going to SEE the OW, but he may be talking to her on the phone. I'm assuming this is true, I will not ask. I don't think I'm supposed to am I ?

I go back to work tomorrow morning. What do I do at this point ? Same course as currently ? Waiting for him to call me, being there if and when he wants to see me or talk to me ? Right now it almost seems that he's cheating on her with me ?

Until I get my books, can someone to tell me any definate DO's and DON'Ts ?

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

--------------------
TMCM's MB Garage .

Thanks believer. I think so far I'm doing pretty well with the do's and don'ts. I'm doing much better about not calling him. The only thing is we planned on seeing each other tonight. Is that an arranged date ? After tonight, I know nothing, there are no plans.

I won't ask if he's going to call me, I won't ask when he's coming back over. I won't ask if he's still seeing OW. I'll just enjoy his company. He must still have something left for me. It was of his own accord to come here yesterday. I didn't ask, or even HINT. Completely his idea. I didn't not make advances.

I told him I wish there was something I could do to help him through this difficult time, but I know that's something he has to do for himself, by himself.

I hope there's HOPE. I want there to be. I just have to keep telling myself that this may not end the way I had hoped.

What I have noticed about WS's is that when you decide to go on with your life and have a nice life, they suddenly start thinking they are making a mistake.

For some reason they need to keep you involved in the triangle. When I threw my H out, I completely rearrange the house, took down all pictures and reminders of him, etc. Then I cleaned in sparkling clean.

When I went on with my life and started having fun, he started coming back around. He told me I seemed to be doing fine without him. I told him I had no choice, life goes on.

There is something very comforting about detaching a little. Now I can talk to him without LB's, mainly because I know I can have a good life without him.

You are still new to this, you will get much better in time. The main thing is just to enjoy his company and not think about the future. Let him see a strong, happy woman.

I'm losing myself again. I've been cleaning all day. Keeping busy. I want SO BAD TO CALL HIM. I know I can't. I want to know if he meant any of what he told me last night. I know I can't know, I know HE doesn't know.

THIS SUCKS !

It's the worst ever. After a very distraught 2 weeks, and him telling me he's SURE we won't be able to work anything out, to walk away, and get on with my life..... he tells me last night I'm doing right by him by standing by him.

He tells me "we'll be okay"... did that mean we as in US or we as in individuals ? I know I can't ask.

I haven't heard anything from him today.

I'm in fear he spoke to OW last night and is in dense FOG.

I KNOW after yesterday he loves me. I KNOW it. Not a single doubt in my mind.

I know this takes time, and I tell myself I'm doing the right thing.

I did ask him if he would remain honest, no matter what, and he said he would. Then he said firmly, but not in a mean way, Stop, don't push. I said okay. And with that he left for the night.

How do I find the strength that I need to endure this ?

WH just called me. He seems happy, upbeat. Telling me he's cleaning at his mother's (which is where he is currently staying... how long this will be is not up for discussion yet). Says he never realized how messy it had gotten there. I say...I'm glad you're there to help her out, she needs you. He said yeah. Said he's up to his ears in garbage that needs to be taken to the curb tonight, but will be over a little bit later on.

Point for me.... supporting his need to help his mom, who refuses to acknowledge my shear existence on this earth, much less my marriage to her only child.

I'm still cleaning. Feeling a little better. The pope could eat off my floors, but that's always been a little pet peave of my WH. House not quite clean enough. Am I still in Plan A if he's staying with his mom ?

Check out flylady.com for some cleaning tips. But don't sign up for the e-mail. People here have told me you get bombarded. Her program is lots of fun to do, and you can get whole house cleaned and organized in no time.

The best thing for you is to stay in Plan A. Then get busy doing things for yourself. You are not going to get your needs met by WH. So you will have to do it yourself.

I exercised, cleaned and organized, joined a womens support group, volunteered, started my own business, detailed the car, did the yard, remodeled the bathroom, painted, and went out with friends. When you start doing things (even though you would rather sit and obsess about WH) you start getting your self esteem back.

You have FAR more energy than I do.
In these two weeks I've done a lot of packing (WH stuff). Cleaned the yard, cleaned out closets, mopped floors, dusted, scrubbed sinks, toilets, bathtubs and showers. I've gotten a haircut and wear makeup every day.

I have to keep reminding myself this may be it, this is all I get, but am learning to be happy with what I've gotten.

I can't WAIT to get the books. It will give me much needed support.

Thank you again for all your responses. They truly help.

I hope one day to be as strong and happy as you are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well I'm on my way to work today. WH came over last night, almost as planned.

We had one of more honest discussions since this started.

I noticed him withdrawing from me a little bit more then the day before.

I told him of my intentions. Then made a few mistakes, but found out a lot in the process. OW called him yesterday. He said she's very insistent, and he's trying to brush her off. (I left it at that as far as she was concerned).

I asked him if he wants me back, he said yes. I asked him if he wanted our work on our marriage, he said yes.

Then he explained to me that there is a saying he can't quite remember, that the right hand only builds what the left hand knocks down. He said over a period of 5 years, we built up something, good, something great, and for whatever reason, the left hand was able to get in and knock it down. But he's realized the pieces are still right there, and it's going to take a little time, and a lot of hard work, but we can build them back up again. He said he's felt that he hit the lottery, and spent all the money, now he's poor again.

He also told me that he didn't have any intentions of leaving. That he was going to get a hotel room for a couple days and let me cool off. But I made all the next moves and drove to his place of work to retrieve all house keys, and packed up all his stuff.

He had to go back to his mothers. She washed his the same clothes for him to go to work for 3 days until he was able to find anything he'd moved over there hastily in the middle of the night when I threw him out. He really thought he'd just be able to come home, and we'd go on like we were, because he was positive I no longer cared.

I've apologized for making him feel this way, and have told him I plan to continue to work on myself, to be the person he knows I can be.

I told him I was glad this went the way it did because things couldn't keep going the way they were going, or it was just doomed.

He is going to bring some of his clothes back to the house.

He's not moving back in. Not for awhile. We agreed that would only happen when we both felt ready.

Before he left at around midnight. I suggested he do himself a favor, and let OW know that he's not left his marriage, and he wants to make it work.

I told him I won't force him to do this, he must do it in his own time, and his own way. But what I've realized is that as much of his EN that I will continue to meet, I can't live life in Limbo.

So this is where we are. I miss my husband, I miss being married. But one day, I'll be married again. When the time is right. In the meantime, I've given him my wedding rings. I told him when he feels he is able to commit, and take upward movements, he'll know when the time is right to offer me my rings back.

That's the end of my LB. But I had to get them out once and for all. I didn't want him to think I was "being nice" to him, and being with him in every way a wife SHOULD be without him knowing what my intentions were.

There still is not a NC. The fog is lifting, and soon I'll be able to test that idea on him. I opened the door to it last night.

I've taken my responsibility to the failures I've contributed to our marriage. He has to take responsibility for his affair and make it disappear.

If she would GO away, I'd have made better progress, but he did tell me she's insistent. He also told me that during the affair, he tried to see her as little as possible. (I don't know what that means, and he wants to tell me more about the affair, but knows I won't handle it well).

My heart is still broken, my hopes are hanging by a thread, I got up this morning, and I'm going to work.

I realize that much of my own pain is caused by me. I'm the one choosing to fight for my husband, fight for our marriage. I could have walked away, and been clear of all this. I would be just learning to live without him. Now it's just twice as hard, learning to live without him in my life as I once knew it, while trying to build a better stronger relationship.

On this damp cold morning, my heart goes out to each one of you, because of what you're all going through, including myself. Be strong, let whatever is meant to be, BE, and Let Go and Let God.

Have a peaceful day everyone one.

You're doing a great job. It sounds like your OW is becoming a high maintenance pain in the butt while you are a safe harbor. Keep up the good work.

Loy

Loy, I'm suddenly VERY aware of hard it is NOT to push. I want to be insistent TOO ! I want to force, and I see that as a HUGE LB on my part, and I'm not going to do it. I'm in Plan A, but when I asked him if he was still with her, he said yes. That she insists it wasn't her that said all those things to me. He sees he's trying to brush her off, that HE got himself into it, HE has to get himself OUT of it. But that's the first time he's given any indication that he chose ME and not her. Now if only I can BELIEVE HIM.

He did say he's having difficulty forgiving himself for what he's done to me. He knows he's hurt me before, but this was far too much. He was so wrong in that. All I said, well in the future, if you feel your love is gone, and you want to part ways, please either divorce me or kill me, the cheating is the hardest to deal with. He said, where's the gun ? and laughed. My humor escaped me. He's still FOGGY. But I think he's made decisions. He did tell me that he always liked the way I made him feel, confident.

Sounds very promising. Keep up the good work and do not rush.

((betrayedinjersey)) You ARE doing the right thing. You have to take care of yourself!

Thank you beleiver! I enjoyed reading the 180 degree list. It's a "in-your-face" list, but well needed.
I'm new to this jersey - I suspected for quite some time, but could not prove anything.
Sigh - all I guess I should provide to you right now is cyber hugs. Since I'm new, I still have much to learn. BUT, I did find the book at the Christian bible store, and started reading!
Just have to let go, and let God.

Vivian

(((((((Hi All)))))))
Almost done with my first day of work since D-Day. WH called to check on me a little while ago. When I saw his number come up, I immediate felt anxiety, but answered very positive.

I said, "Hello"
He said, "Hi Honey, how is your day going?"
I said I was doing okay.
He told me his day was going rough. That he was taking his mom shopping tonight, that her shoulders have been keeping her up at night.

Said he may stop over later, not sure. I said okay. Other non monumental conversation and we said goodbye. That's something I haven't done is said I love you when hanging up the phone. (not there yet).

The good news is I didn't call to prompt his calling me. It was again unprovoked on my part. I'm trying so hard. Every minute. I don't know if he talked to OW today. I'm not going to ask. Not yet, I can't keep poking. I have to chose my moments wisely.

Still in holding pattern.

I'm in Texas. Where's the OW??? I'll open up a can of whup a** on her for ya!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

(((((((((Thank you so much)))))))))))))
You put a smile on my face for a second there.
I'm having a down moment. I'm depressed, and crying.

This is the hardest part, the rollercoaster, the up and the down. No matter how promising one moment looks, the mourning over my loss is chewing away at all I'm trying to do.

I've realized no matter how hard I try, and no matter how much effort I put into this, my marriage as I knew it, is still over. And that cuts so deep.

I'm starting to wonder if that is the reason I'm making these desperate attempts to hang on.

I wonder if I wasn't hurting so much, if I would feel the same way. Perhaps I would have let him see how green the grass ISN'T on the other side.

I'm sliding down the slippery slope again.
He's still with her.
period.
Doesn't know if he wants me or her.
He can't come here, tell me he loves me, tells me he wants me back, tell me he wants to work on this, tell me he wants to come home, and not know if he doesn't want her.
This is too much for me.
he tells me, keep doing what you're doing.
which is WHAT ?
I think I'll use the same approach, but with a different outcome in mind for me.
I'm going to try to start letting go.
Maybe I can wean myself off him.
He says I'm trying to rush things.
NO, I'M TRYING TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM FURTHER BETRAYAL.
I'M A FOOL FOR FALLING INTO THIS.

Stay strong. Try to detach yourself without losing sight of your M. The more you detach yourself, the more you can show him the real person you are. Otherwise you come across as too needy, whining, just the sort of person he'll want to get away from. You're doing great so far. You're stating your needs clearly but without nagging. You're not bombarding him with why's where's and when's. That's good. But to get through it for the next weeks and months, you'll need to focus less on him and his needs, and focus on yourself. Detach.

How do you detach? Hard to do, I know. Every word, every action is reason to hope. After 3 months of pure hell, my WH finally turned to me and said, "I guess we're in this together forever from now on." The next day he acted like couldn't stand me. Two months later he filed for D. And till the very end he kept telling me how much he loved me.

I'm not telling you this to make you give up hope but to help you detach yourself while he's going through the Fog. I think if I'd found that detachment early enough, things might have turned out differently.

I can only do my part. I can't do his. But I have to be strong enough, and in a clear enough state to know if I'm being played the fool.

We have absolutely no dependencies on each other. The finances are evenly split during this time, and we can each manage comfortably.

I've heard up to 3 weeks once he's realized he doesn't want to walk away from his marriage, but can't end the A either.

I'm setting up a counseling session ASAP. I'll start alone, that way if a month comes and goes, and he's still playing the game, I'll be in a better place.

I feel him reconnecting with me, but every time he calls me I am VERY well aware that no matter how well or bad the conversation goes, he NEVER says I love you at the end of the call anymore. Is this normal ? I'm positive he is telling HER that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sh94, You are right. What happened to your M? DId you get a D?

Jersey, I am in the same place as you are. It's been 3 months, I still don't see any sign. Some times I feel so hopeless. But everyone told me to hang on there. So here I am , hanging on, don't know what it is. But I trust GOD, he will give me the best answer. I just have to be patient.

I can tell you that he's being honest with me. He's not being honest with her. I guess if I had to choose a side of that fence, I'd rather be on my side. Although it's painful, it reminds me that we built something on honesty, love, respect and consideration. All they have is something built on lies, and he continue to lie to her.
I know about her. I know when he talks to her.

She has NO clue he's still talking to me, and trying to see where him and I go.

We are supposed to go to the Poconos in May for his birthday. We may very well end up going. If things are still at this place in May, after that weekend I'm switching to plan B.

He's coming over tonight for dinner. I'm going to connect with him again, not bring up OW. This is where he needs to be right now. I guess he's testing both sides of the grass. I can maintain my grass, for now.

My sister is having a very difficult time with this, and wants me to tell him to back off until he knows what he wants.

I told him last night I didn't know where to start to fix this. He told me I already had. The way I've been with him has made him realize how good we our together. To keep doing as I'm doing because he had forgotten that before now. He tells me not to push, poke or rush. We'll be okay if we keep doing what we're doing.

Then get rid of her !!!!! I want to demand that so much, but I know I can't. She can't see him, she can only talk to him on the phone because of the distance. But I have to realize, that if she were here, would things be like this ? I've nearly driven him directly into her arms. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

How do I know I'm not being played ? How do I know he's finding a way to stay slightly involved in his marriage, and slightly involved with his A ?

I'm really having my doubts here.

Is this the result of Plan A working or Plan A working to enable his A ?

You won't ever know if your Plan A is helping heal the M or if it's prolonging the A. But don't you see, that line of thinking is where we make so many mistakes with using these Plans. I know - that's where I went wrong right at the beginning. I used the Plans as some grand strategy, hoping that if I played the game right, I'd save my M. I didn't realize that these Plans are for us, the BS's! And hopefully in the process of doing a good Plan, your WH will return, because these Plans do show your WH what he'd lose otherwise.

Like you I went back & forth, up & down on the emotional rollercoaster, trying to figure out when to do Plan A, how to do it, was it working, when to start Plan B. And then I finally figured out - Plan A is for me, it's to teach me how to be the best wife I can, it's to make sure that when and if my WH finally leaves me that I know I've done everything I can to save our M. I stopped using it to trap my WH back into the M and used it for myself. I kept searching my heart - as well as my mind - to see if it was time for Plan B, and both heart & mind said it wasn't. When my WH finally left me, I knew I'd done everything I could - and that was the greatest feeling. I've never had any regrets that I could have done more. And yes, to answer a previous question, I did lose my M. I've been divorced now for over a year.

Thank you for the post. It does help some. It changed my thinking process. Plan A is for me. For now. I don't know how long I will do Plan A, and I don't know if I can risk Plan B right now.

My WH came over for dinner last night. We were intimate and talked about why that part of our M went wrong. It was good to get honest dialogue.

He told me last night when he was leaving that he loved me. Not asked. He just said it. And that's the first time I've heard those words in awhile now.

My WH is in a tough place.

Your doing good work. I've been doing Plan A and sometimes I want to take a break from it but your post and posters just game me a little boost. Thankfully I won't see WH for a few more hours and geer up for a night of fun Plan A - no relationship talks unless he intiates. Keep posting.

It's not easy, Plan A, because like it's been said so many times, your own emotional needs aren't being met by anyone except yourself.

I have noticed that I'm getting some Plan A actions from him from time to time as well.

So far today, WH hasn't called. Not going to wonder why. I can't put myself through that. I have to stay in a good place for me.

Last night I had dinner ready when he got there. Got him whatever he needed. Was having a sore arm from a GOUT flare up. Brought him medicine, rubbed his arm down with ointment.

Was comforting his pain, and was intimate with him, since his arm was in such terrible pain, I had to do all the work. But I took my time and I blocked out all distractions.

WH is trying to call me now, I'm letting it go to voicemail.

Afterwards he talked for hours, as I struggled to fall asleep. But I forced myself to be attentive, and listen.

He stayed for a couple hours longer. Asked me at one point if I was getting tired, I said no I was okay.

I was greatful for the time we shared. Woke up today feeling , I did good, I'm proud of myself.

Hang in there Loy. I see the results of Plan A, in him and in me.

Interestingly enough, the more aloof I am, (in only positive ways, being very flexible, not calling, not pursuing)... the better results I seem to be getting.
He called around 1:45 PM (or at least that's the first time I saw the number come up on my caller ID here at work, I had been to lunch for about 30 minutes). I decided not to appear THERE (whenever he needed or wanted to reach out and call me).... so I waited...he didn't leave a voicemail. Within 5 minutes, he called BACK.... I was GOING to answer it...and decided not to. Then I started to think, hmm...I wonder if something is wrong, and he just needs something about a bill or something. I was going to call back but decided, let's just wait and see. Within 15 minutes, he called me for the 3rd time. This time I answered the phone....
he needed NOTHING. Just chit chat about nothing for a good 30 minutes. Listening to how his day at work went, how sore his elbow was, the parking problem he's having at his mothers. The ENTIRE time, I can hear someone calling him on his cell phone, it's beeping in on us, at LEAST 10 times in that 30 minutes. I'm assuming it was her, because if it were work, he'd have just said, that's work calling, hold on. But he didn't. He ignored the beeps. After the conversation was done, I THINK he waited for me to ask if he would call me or come over later on, but I didn't. IT WAS HARD...TOOK EVERY OUNCE OF WILL POWER NOT TO ASK.... but I didn't. He ended up having to say, okay honey, I'll call you later, I was thinking about coming over, but I don't know, my arm is really sore. I said..... that's okay. <---that was IT. ALL I SAID. I haven't called him. I haven't bugged him...I'm there. Period. And it seems that the more desperate she becomes in the constant phone calls seeking reassurance, the opposite is happening on MY side. He called me 3 times in 20 minutes to talk about nothing ?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

[ March 10, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: betrayedinjersey ]

hehehe
big hugs* Things are looking up beleive it or not.. You're doing great!!!!!!!!! Nothing that starts in lies end well... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

After I spoke to him this afternoon, I checked the bank shortly afterwards, and realized we were in a bit of a jam. (result of my WH inability to pay attention, that was always my job). We're seriously overdrawn on one of our primary accounts.

So I attempted to call him on his cell phone. IT WAS OFF. This is new developemnt. That thing is never OFF. Even if he's avoiding or screening calls, he has had the need to see who is calling. (Obviously OW).

Now we currently have no ill feelings going between us, things are going quite well. That cell phone is the only way she can contact him. Without that cell phone on, she's completely cut off.

Now, in the pattern I've followed for the last several days to a week, I next to NEVER call him. As a matter of fact I only returned a voicemail to him last night asking me what time I'd be home for work, other then that, no calls from me period.

So he's not avoiding my calls, he's not anticipating a call from me, so why is that cell phone off ?

Remember, this is their primary source of contact, they are a gazillion states away from each other currently. Yet not only did he just not answer the calls, he turned it OFF.

I'm wondering if that's significant in any way. Maybe perhaps the FOG is working in my favor for once ?

Not getting my hopes up, still strongly in Plan A. Seeing positive results from both of us.

This morning I feel down again. I can't seem to get a grip on this thing.

Didn't see WH last night, but he called me late in the evening.

Is still having a rough time from pain in elbow and knee, seems grouchy because of it. Slightly irritable, even with me I think.

I know this is one day at a time, but so far, I've not been able to get through 2 days in a row of feeling that I'm okay. It's every other day. And those days like today, really kick me.

This isn't a game, this is my life, and it's been smashed to pieces, and there's such a part of me that can't stand to accept that face.

I think I may be getting worse. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I'm having a miserable morning. I'm fighting back tears so hard I don't know how much longer I can do it. I may have to go out to my truck and just let them go.
Nothing has changed to prompt this, quite the contrary. First thing this morning I was obviously the first thing on his mind. We met at Dunkin Donuts for coffee on our way to work. I was on my way there, he called me, and he happened to be there. Said he'd call me later. But I'm dying right now. I have every doubt in the world, my mind and my heart are drowning. I have no positive in me today. All I can think about is how my whole life as I knew it crashed down around me.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

You're doing such a great job, holding it together. Maybe you don't realize how well - but I can see it in your posts.

That is so true! You think you're finally making a breakthrough, that you're getting stronger, that things might be looking up - and then the next day you're down more than before. Accept it - you're going to hit bottom again and again.

But as you continue in Plan A, letting the MB principles become part of yourself and your actions, you'll find that those "bottoms" aren't quite so bad or as frequent.

You know when I realized my Plan A had worked? It was the last time I ever saw my WH. He was coming back home to pack some things. He'd already told me it was over for good. And I baked him brownies and a beautiful dinner, I met him at the airport and let him talk about his month at work, we had a wonderful meal with candles and pleasant conversation. And then when he disappeared into the back room - the time when I used to follow him, hang on him, worry over him - I let go. Instead, I sat down and started watching the news. And about 5 minutes later he came back in with the most quizzical look on his face, as though he couldn't believe what was happening. We talked about politics and work, our 2 passions. And then he started to really talk - about our marriage, and why he couldn't stay any longer, and the OW and the unborn OC. That went on all night and all the next day and the next night as well. We talked and talked, cried. He'd go off to talk to OW on e-mail, and I'd stay in the other room - and he'd be back in with me not 15 minutes later, to talk some more. He told me he saw that I'd changed so much, that I was at peace, and he wished he could be there too but he couldn't. And I truly was at peace. Not happy, I was so miserable and depressed. But I was at peace knowing that he was making this choice for reasons other than me. He'd seen what it could be like with me if he stayed and he was truly regretting it. Unfortunately I hadn't changed soon enough.

That's why I keep saying to do Plan A for yourself. Think about what it really means and how it will improve you. Only when the changes are truly inside you will they become obvious to your WH.

I'm seeing a therapist now, and going on AD. This may help my mental state a lot. I'm still not ready to stop blaming myself. The amount of guilt I feel is overwhelming, but I'm also starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

He's still talking to OW. Supposedly, he's told her he's talking to me to see where things go. I don't think I believe that for a minute.

I have really come to believe that he's hanging on to both. Basically I think he's hanging on to me in case they don't work out. There are so many obstacles for them.

I really think Plan B would be a better place for me. That way I knew all the hard work I was putting in truly was for me. I'm starting to resent him for somehow becoming the victim in his mind.

I'm not ready yet, because I'm too depressed about the whole thing and not thinking clearly.

In a few weeks, I may be strong enough, and be able to forgive myself enough to let go of him and what he's done to what we once had.

He's making this all about me all of a sudden. Says he's standing back and letting himself see where we go. He says he's not making any effort. He's just watching.

I think it's over. I think that's why my mood changed yesterday. I feel in my heart it is over. I've had so many health issues in the last 5 months, I was in depression and didn't know it. Instead of him understanding, he's still in the phase that, well I treated him really badly.

Pardon me, but if I can try to forgive an A, and try to repair my marriage, and he can't forgive me for pushing him away because I developed some pretty scary health issues, then maybe he's not worth it for me, maybe I deserve much better.

Today , like today, I'm still in the acceptance mode that this is really it. He gets to have his cake and eat it too.

I'm not hearing words of encouragement, I'm not hearing words of remorse, I'm not hearing how much he wishes he could come home. All I hear from his is how much he needs time.

I have to make sure the decision I make is right for me, and until the AD kick in, I won't make that decision, but IF that time comes, and I PRAY it does, I'm going to drop him right on his @ss. Let HIM do a little work for once. If he is able to at all.

Thank you for being there, it helps alot. Everything they have, is based on one lie after another. It's doomed, she's stupider then I am, and he's selfish and headed no where.

Regardless, I'm determined to come out a better person for this.

Hi Betrayed,

I've been following your story, and I have to say your progress is impressive.

The feelings that you're having right now are 100% normal.

You only found out 2 1/2 weeks ago, if your signature is right. You are in the very beginning stages of this mess. You are going to have days where you will want to throw in the towel, you'll second guess yourself. This is totally normal.

Your H right now is in the fog. I'm willing to bet that when he's not with you he's wishing he was.

It is not uncommon for WS to go back and forth, most of the time because of the guilt they feel towards the OP. Don't forget, he's probably promised her all kinds of things and she believed him.

My H told me on May 9 about his A and only ended in July.

Your H is in the fog and you have to remember that. Your emotions are normal.

The OP is from what I'm reading desperate. Your H turning off his cell to avoid her calls is good sign.

Don't give up. Hang in there, you have a few corner to turn before you, and it's not easy.

my thoughts are with you.

xx

Heartbroken,
I don't want to get my hopes up. The OW continues to harass me, and I let her, her friends are starting to harass my WH now, and he's getting nothing but fairness and support from me.
I hate the FOG, there is nothing more we BS wish for that dim light bulb to finally go off for the WH to go, WHAT AM I DOING ???
My WH is starting to see that, sometimes, but sometimes I see him slip backwards. We talk of future things, taking one day at a time, seeing where it goes, he's convinced we're heading in the right direction, yet OW isn't out of picture.
Boy does THAT shed layers of doubt on me.
We are supposed to be getting together tonight. The never ending rollercoaster is leaving the gate.
Please let me know of your progress and how things went.
Thanks!

WH wasn't able to come over last night because of his inflammed joints, but we did spend quite awhile on the phone. On several different times, I called him, and he answered the phone every time.

Last night, over the phone we engaged in relationship talk for the FIRST time. Things, one thing in particular that really destroyed my marriaqe.

I felt I needed more, I needed to know I was not in a FOG myself, or in denial in any way.

I pushed a little, and he got so irritated at one point that he was going to hang up on me.

But INSTEAD, he let that angry seed out. Boy did he. He said I WANT MY PLACE. This took some questions, because I had NO clue what the heck he was referring to. He said, you are the wife, you have your place, I WANT MY PLACE, I WANT TO BE THE HUSBAND. I poked, harder, do you want to be MY HUSBAND, (very reluctant to answer that one)... like pulling teeth. Finally he said, YES, I want to be YOUR husband, wasn't that the idea when we got married ?

In a nut shell, I have 2 children from an abusive marriage many ions ago. My son just turned 20, my daughter is going on 18. For the last 20 years, I've let those kids run all over me, I've overprotected, and became so obvlious to them walking all over me, that they were walking all over my husband as well. He told me a million times he couldn't take much more. I didn't listen to him when he wanted to offer advice, I just cut him off. Those are MY kids....they come first...I don't care about what you think or say.

Although I was letting my daughter's boyfriend who had a suspended license drive my brand new truck on insurance my husband and I pay for.

WH would call to see if I wanted him to pick up something for dinner, my immediate response... let me ask daughter and boyfriend what they wanted.

I could tell you thousands of other examples. But my WH said, WHEN he comes home, he is taking HIS PLACE. He and I will discuss things, and come to mutual decisions, but bottom line, this is HIS house too, he pays the bills here.

I am going to talk to my therapist this morning about this issue, because I know I can't fix it on my own. Obviously I have to recognize my children are my children, and I love them, but my H is my H because I CHOSE him, and it doesn't have to be chosing one over the other, and I've never been able to do that.

Any thoughts on moving into that conversation was good or not ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

been there done that.....i had a similar situation. my son from a previous marriage is now 14. my husband has supported and been his step-parent since he was 2 1/2. they never really had a great relationship--due to both of them. husband shut down to him years ago--son pulled away and when the teen years hit so did the disrespect. i had been pleading with my husband for years to get help/therapy with us but he wouldnt. so when things blew i was caught in the crossfire.

a part of me wanted to say-but didnt-what do you expect??? you have shut him out for so many years, then he sees you lavish yourself on our youngest and you expect him to respect you??? they both failed each other and i should have stepped in along time ago. the final straw came when he was in his affair and told me he was kicking our oldest out---he wanted him gone!!

i worked a 14 hour day and thats the first thing he hits me with when i walk in the door.(probably one of his biggest mistakes in life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) well i had finally had it, but stayed calm and said--im gonna leave the room and let you think about what you just said to me---then im gonna give you one and only one chance to take it back and explain yourself. and i left the room. well since he allready had miss wonderfull on the side and i didnt know it he stood firm---so i told him do you want me to pack for you or would you rather do it yourself???

that shocked him--not enough obviously--but he thought i would crumble. i will work out a plan on what to do, i will do counseling with you both, but if you think im gonna throw a child away your nuts.(his biological dad is totally not responsible and not an option--never was.)

that sent his affair full swing. i will never regret standing up for my child--but that also has to do with husbands lack of involvement. that was his choice. i allways gave him the parent position. i never undermined his authority--except on that occasion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

i found out about a month or so later about the affair. went through it all and then some. we never split--allthough at one time i did ask him to leave. that was about a year into it i think...he wasnt doing anything for recovery. he has finally come around after two years of waiting.

plan a for you---you are doing incredible. reach out for support and help when you need to. have people around you that understand what you are doing and support it. make yourself less accesable--maybe when he asks about comming over for dinner---tell him you have plans. if you cant fib---then make plans for something else.

hang in and if you want---im in jersey too. im in warren county. if you need a local ear let me know.

It's so hard to stay in Plan A, and not feel my world falling down around me. I miss my husband SO much. I want my life back !

No matter how positive things seem at times, I'm so lonely. My children live there own lives. They are next to never around, unless they need something or want something at the inconvenience of myself OR my WH. They didn't seem to mind relying on him, but sure didn't show him any respect. That's MY fault.

Let's face it, in a few years, they'll be on their own, living their lives the way that makes them happy, and where will I be ? Without my one true love.

My every day, is no longer my every day. I wake up alone, I go to sleep alone. I run errands alone. There are no clothes to wash, nothing to pick up after him.

He won't even spend the night here, not once. I'm trying to get to that point, I've invited him back to his home, to take his place. Now it's up to him to take it.

Put this, together with the affair, the health issues, I'm a mess. My husband loves me, he wants to be with me, he wants our marriage to work, but he says first I have to help myself. He said it's like being a passenger on an airplane, when the mask falls down, if you dont put your mask on first, how can you help someone else ?

This is agony. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

then do it---start to care for you. make that the priority. do something for you. spend a day at a spa--get the toes done, a massage the works!

it all takes time...unfortunately we all want it to go away now. it doesnt. hang in there, it does get better.

so tell me more about you--your likes and such.

Betrayed - Time for some boundaries with you kids. Get a book about them, or join a women's support group. Do it for you kids. They will not like it at first. Now is a good time, while your WH is gone.

They need to learn that there are consequences for their choices. Yes, they will soon be gone, and need to learn about boundaries now. The rest of the world will not be as forgiving as mom.

There is a great book called "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend, and it even has a workbook that comes with it. When you first start setting boundaries, others will be mad, but soon they start accepting them. Please take care of this as soon as you can.

WH called his morning. Was going to Walgreens for something for his elbow, I offered to go with him. He was excited, said I'll be over in 20 minutes to pick you up. (I put on a fresh pot of coffee just in case).

He picked me up, we went to Walgreens. He came in, we had a couple cups of coffee, talked some. I took a small step, and said, I'm putting our shelf back together (our shelf was a shelf in our china closet in the dining room that contained things like our wedding cake topper, a wedding picture of us, souvenir champagne and glasses from Caesars resorts, pictures of us there...etc.) His reply was , I didn't take it all down. SO....

We're taking VERY small baby steps. He just left to go back to his mom's to get ready for work tonight. He has to leave for work @ 6, but said he'll be back here in a little while to do some paper work and take a nap, then I can wake him up so he can go to work.

Whenever he worked nights, he would come home at whatever time in the middle of the night with dunkin donuts coffee for both of us. Whether it was 1 AM or 5 AM.

I said, you could always stop by on your way home with some coffee...he said...it might be 5 am...we have a lot of work to do. I said...either way, the invitation is there.

We are DEFINATELY taking positive steps. I haven't asked him if OW is still in picture. I'm starting to think she's being ejected. I'm not at that step yet.

I made sure I paid attention to his conversation, helped him find something he needed in the garage. Bought him a card, which he read in front of me, and said Thank you.

This slippery slope will slide out from beneath me again, I know that, I'm not that naive. But I'm working extra extra hard.

I have a VERY important question.
My WH is spending more and more time with me, agreeing to rebuild our marriage, to see if we can get through this. He's been telling me this for almost 2 weeks now.

We're starting to make steps toward reconciliation. He's reaching out to me more and more. He's making himself more available to me.

Is it too early to PROTECT myself from the fact that he may still be talking to OW ? This situation is that she's currently in TEXAS and we're in New Jersey. If she were HERE, I don't know if things would be going the way they are.

Do I ask him to end all contact with her if he's serious about repairing our marriage or is it too soon and will it push him away ?

Is that considered a selfish demand on my part ?

I REALLY need help with this one.

I want to do the right thing, but know from reading SAA that we can't truly begin recovery until A is over both physically AND emotionally.

He told me that he told OW we were talking to see where things go.

Should that be enough for me right now ?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

before you ever begin recovery there are certain things that are gonna have to happen. he will have to do a NC letter. sever all ties to the ow. make himself and his cell phone or e-mail open to you. maybe mc before he comes back.

the list goes on and on. but if he just says its over and he comes home----your radar is gonna go off the wall. you will have no plan and no knowledge if it is really over with them. get your boundries together, figure out what they are and what his consequences will be if not followed. this is not a selfish demand. this is what you are willing to live with versus not knowing. these are measures you have been forced into taking because he hasnt protected you. do this all before he cames back.

for the time being---enjoy the time together and keep it simple. figure out your boundries with your children and consequences for you if not followed. he will need that also.

good luck

I know you're right. As much as I wanted to think so, we're not really in recovery. We're still in limbo land.

This takes a lot of will power. My struggle to re-adust to life without my husband being the first person I see in the morning and the last thing I see at night, trying to reconnect our marriage to the point he wants to work it out, wants to stay with me, chooses me, finding out about the A, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> teaching the boundaries around here, working, keeping the house up. I feel like I'm a walking time bomb.

Get busy, my dear. The only one you can change right now is you. Make those changes. Start with boundaries with your kids. That will take awhile.

In the meantime, enjoy doing things with your H as much as he will let you. Forget about relationship talk and the OW. Fill up his love bank. You are very lucky - many WS's won't let the BS do this.

So cram deposits into his bank. You have a plan. He does not. Neither does OW. So take full advantage of this time to show him the way home.

Before you attempt restoring the marriage, there will have to be NC with OW. Also there will be a plan for reconciliation. But forget about that right now. Did you read the lighthouse post?

No, I did not read it, point me in the right direction.

I was thinking last night about what I've done recently to put my deposits in. I think I'm doing pretty well. Although I think I might be overdoing it a bit, but I am VERY careful not to take any out. I figure, even if OW can be making deposits, that have to be small in comparison to mine.

Whenever he's here (and that's been 3 times this week) I offer him something to drink, make him something to eat, help him with whatever task he's on, offered a massage, twice took care of bad elbow. No nonstop phone calls, just ALL deposits, no withdrawals (wearing me out, sometimes I feel like a doormat) but I realize it's for a greater good. 2 1/2 weeks ago, I was being told I don't love you anymore, there hasn't been an "US" for a very long time, I talked of a future with OW......

As soon as I put my Plan A into action I saw IMMEDIATE response, of course OW assisted with her harassing phone calls to me. The fact he was with me that ONE time to HEAR all the ugliness flowing from her mouth, REALLY cleared some FOG. I am very lucky she made that HUGE withdrawal. That really bothered him, he said to her on the phone that night , "I've hurt this woman that's been a part of my life for 6 years in the worst of ways, I can't believe not even knowing her, YOU'D say those things to her"

I want to think positive, I SO WANT to, but sometimes don't see or feel it. Posting here, helps alot, because sometimes I see positives that I'm unable or unwilling to see.

posted March 07, 2004 06:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this to lostwithouther a short while back..

I liked this post...
I still pray now more than ever he can become the lighthouse....

I hope some others find comfort from the storm...

Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....
set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....
without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...

be the lighthouse....
OK that's really out there I know....

strength to you all..
ARK

Thank you so much. That was very inspiring and insightful.

I'll stay steady in my course. I won't fool myself into believing it's working, I'll just believe in my own actions, and the results I'm able to see within me.

I believe there's hope.

I'll let God decide. Whatever his plan, I'll accept it.

Thank you again. You are SO much support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

hey Jersey girl- I read your whole thread- something I just never do in JFO- I laughed and cried my way thru it with you and wasn't surprised at the end to find Nikko- NJ is probably what brought us both to your thread- if you're ever up for a live conversation I'm sure we are available. I also have "kids" that are 18/21 and I am 43. You are doing great and I'm glad you found MB so quickly! I'll post my favorite "advice" and add you to my prayers.

PEACE OUT and IN !!

Desiderata
"Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,

and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,

be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly;

and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant;

They too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons;

they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,

you may become vain or bitter,

for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career, however humble;

It is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,

for the world is full of trickery.

But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;

Many persons strive for high ideals,

and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.

Neither be cynical about love;

for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment

it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the council of the years,

Gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.

But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.

Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a healthy discipline,

Be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars;

you have a right to be here,

and whether or not it is clear to you,

no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God,

Whatever you conceive Him to be.

And whatever your labors and aspirations,

in the noisy confusion of life,

keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,

it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy."

Today I'm sad. The emotional rollercoaster again.
I may have pushed a little today, and I'm starting to regret it.
WH worked last night, didn't get home to his mom's until 4 am. Woke up around 3ish today.
Arm is sore, cranky mood, probably not coming over.
He asks me how I am, I'm honest, I'm having a bit of a down day. This is his remedy, read your book, watch a movie, stop doing that.
I was irritated, thought, let me hang up before I lose me mind completely.
Call back a short time later. Say...I know I'm working hard, and we're heading in the right direction, but there are certain things I've noticed that make me a bit concerned for my own well being.
You don't miss me, you aren't suffering through this, and I think I'm getting very little from you on that part.
His reply, you just want to rush things.
I said, no , not at all, I just want to BELIEVE we're headed in the right direction, I don't want to be TOLD that.
So now he's doing some paperwork. I had intended to invite him over to watch the Sopranos, but don't think I'm up to seeing his LYING STINKING CHEATING FACE TODAY.
This is the most devastating mix of emotions...how hard I try to save my marriage and the love of my soulmate, and HATE HIS GUTS AND WISH HIM AND OW EVIL EVERY SECOND I'm not crying over his stupid BUTT !
When, and IF he calls me later, I'll be upbeat, positive, lavish support and care his way, and when I hang up, I'll be left feeling empty, alone and betrayed.

This is NOT what I signed up for. If there was a line in my marriage vows that said, and allow adultry by WH on the chance it will probably happen, well....I'd have thought twice about THAT I DO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I certainly understand how you feel. My WW is the same way. I have told her more than once that I dont feel like she is changing, or that she is sincere in wanting to reconcile. She just gets mad and tells me how its always about me and how I feel. Problem is she wont tell me how she feels except to go on about how I never give her any freedom or how I'm always opposed to her doing anything. My response is.... stop doing things that make me feel like you're a cheating whore and I'll stop complaining about the things you want to do. No I dont use those exact words but she gets the concept. I will pray for you, and I hope you can find strength in God.

That last post of mine probably did nothing but feed your anger. Please forgive me and disregard if you so choose. Imm sorry about that, just had kind of a rough one today myself.

That's okay. For some reason it's been a particulary hard one for me as well. It's been one of thos...I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS HAPPENED, WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO MY LIFE ?

And inside I'm raging, thinking why am I doing all the work ? I didn't DO THIS TO US. I didn't stray outside my marriage, I don't have feelings for someone else.

Sometimes I get such a turmoil going inside me that I want to quit, I want to quit so badly and tell him... GO SCRATCH BUDDY...YOUR LOSS. There's a voice inside my head going....why are you putting up with this, you deserve so much better than this.

If I just wake up in the morning, and decide...hey you know what..this is it, call the lawyer, take this stupid idiot for spousal support, and be on with it, I know there is an END to this pain.

In the meantime, it's just over and over and over, it's like being hit by the same train as D-Day, but this time I see it coming, and I can't get out of the way ?

What is wrong with me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Betrayed - Unfortunately you DID sign up for this, that is if your vows were for better or worse, in sickness and health, till death do us part.

I have been hanging in here for almost a year. I didn't find out until July, but the A started in March - that is when he started shutting me out.

So I just keep on keeping on. I do have lots of thoughts about letting her have him. I am to the point that I really don't care.

But I do know that I can have a nice life without him, and that is very comforting.

I'm starting to get to that point. At least there's an end to it then.

I don't even know if he'll ever be back, in the meantime, I let him waltz in and out of here, wait on him hand and foot and get what ?

A turning point for me tonight, he's at his mom's just complaining away about his sore this his sore that, how he's in so much pain. That I should know when he's in that much pain, all he cares about is taking the pain away. He's not in the mood to hear about anything else.

I could NOT help myself, I said.. WH...I know EXACTLY how you feel. I feel the same exact way.

Silence.

I said, I'm at the point where all I can think about is having the pain end.

THIS IS WHAT THIS IDIOT SAYS...... My pain is real, I don't know what you're talking about, by my pain is here, and it's real.

I see that corner up ahead, and I'm JUST about ready to make it.

Yes, my vows were for better or for worse, but once the A is uncovered, and he choses to stay at his mother's while both of us try to win his affection is disrespectful to everyone. My vows also said, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS.....so I think I'm kind of off the hook on the better or worse part.

I'm sorry. I'm just really at the end of a very long rope, and my choices are to hang him with it, or let go. I'm dangerously close to letting go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I spent 3 months trying to figure out how to handle WW's EA before I found MB. When I found MB in Dec, I studied Plan A, and once I fully understood it, I employed it with a vengence.

Somehow, I managed to convince myself my feelings were no longer in play. I forced myself to become "comfortably numb" to all fog speak. The more I was provoked, or the more frustrated I became, the number my feelings became. In fact, I turned it into a game. The meaner, angrier, uglier she got, the more charming and funny I became. Words could no longer provoke LB's, DJ's, angry outburst, nothing. It drove her nuts!!!

So I say, stay on course! It works! You'll catch a break or two along the way. Listen keenly to positive things that "slip" out of WS's mouth, and use them to your advantage. They'll sometimes give you little clues as to how to meet their EN's even during Fogspeak.

Stay strong, and have faith!!!

SD

I'll try that immediately. I think I'd fair better with some time of response from him.

So far all I've gotten from him is that he believes in some what he's a spectator. He's just sitting back and watching what I do. He says...you're doing fine.

I don't think I'll ever understand that the BS ends up putting in triple duty, while the WS gets to have their cake, eat it, AND have someone clean up their mess.

Against my better judgement, I'll continue Plan A... for a BIT longer. But pretty soon I'll have to go to Plan B, because I'm starting to feel resentment for him grow more and more. To protect him FROM me, once I hit that point....I'll move swiftly into Plan B.

Try to stay in Plan A for a little longer, then you can go to Plan B, which is quite pleasant.

Thanks believer, like I said, I'll try for a little while longer, I'm quite worn out from it, and I know my heart's no longer in it.

Maybe the rollercoaster will start again, but for the time being, I've gotten off the ride.

I'm feeling bitter resentment still this morning after a decent's night sleep.

I know what he's losing, and he said he has to do this, if he loses it, well he didn't have it before so he'll just risk that.

Let her have him, he ain't no walk in the park.

dear betrayed---we know exactly how you feel. we've all been there. please dont give in to your anger and resentment. it isnt good for YOU. plan a is about making yourself stronger, better and able to deal with all this. if you went off on him and threw him to the curb and moved on could you look at yourself in the mirror and like what you see. or would you rather see someone who has tried EVERYTHING!!! i know of what i speak...believe me. LOL my husband actually patted me on the head and told me what a good job i was doing---all the time while he did nothing and was still in contact with ow(i didnt know that at the time) AND>>>>>>>i actually didnt kill him!!!!! now however when i think of it i still want to smack him!!!LOL

sprezz and the others can tell you all ive been through with a conflict avoiding wh who thinks the elephant is going to go away on its own. it almost funny now. almost 2 1/2 yrs later i am happy i did all i did. yes it is crap at times.....but ya know what...i stayed true to myself and what i believe, i kept my honor and my vows and i have my pride because i have done everything i could. it feels really good.

he is finally comming around after all this time...so i know how it feels. unfortunately you are at the beginning....and have a long way to go. that is why plan a is important....for you and your strength. if you get to the point where its over....and you've done all you can...then you've earned your divorce. dont let the emotions rule you, i almost made that mistake also...glad i didnt.

ps. sprezzis right----we both talk and got together to go out. the in-person support is another level all together---i know if i need her/ or her me---we are there. let us know if you need anything.

Thanks nikko.
I'm here at work, blocking him pleasantly from my mind.
Right now, to me he's a creep.
If and when he calls me today, may or may not change the way I feel.
We'll see.
But I know I am NOT calling him.

good morning.....everyday- you get to CHOOSE-to go on-or not... to honor YOUR vows,or not... to forgive yourself and your WS...or not. Do you want to stay married to the one who let you down? Who is lost? who needs someone to count on? ((you have US!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know it ain't fair- but it is here and real. Can you give it all you've got? can you live with the regret of not giving it all you have to give? the pain from betrayal will follow you; whichever path you choose, so choose carefully. You do have amazing capacity to give-its there for the taking-pray for Gods grace everyday and you will receive it in abundance. None of this is easy-it all takes so much time and patience and giving and love.

I don't know what books you have or not but I can recommend a few that aren't strictly A related; The Power of a Praying Wife-by Stormie O'Martian, you can buy it at WalMart. Also Simple Abundance by Sarah Ban Breathnach, is a book I've been reading over and over for years. Dr. Wayne Dyer has a new book out about Intention-very good. Along the way you will get yourself a new outlook and come what may.....you'll be better for your effort. don't underestimate yourself!!

daily!:

Oh,God, give me grace for this day.
Not for a lifetime, nor the next week, nor
for tomorrow, just for this day.
Direct my thoughts and bless them,
Direct my work and bless it.
Direct the things I say and give them blessing too.
Direct and bless everything that I think and speak and do. So that for this one day, just this one day, I have the gift of grace that comes from your presence...

Expect to have hope rekindled-expect your prayers to be answered in wondrous ways. The dry seasons in life do not last. The spring rains will come again.

PEACE OUT...and IN !

Thank you so much for your support. I am really struggling with just being inside myself. Not looking for anything to or from him.

I keep being kicked off my tracks, probably because I have a difficult time accepting I can only mend my own aches.

He called moments ago.

He's at the office, feeling a bit better, he'll call me later.

The thought that he's in withdrawal FROM me, creeps in, and pushes me off my path. I think, maybe he doesn't love me, maybe he does WANT to move away, and begin a new life, but can't seem to stay away from me ?

I'm praying, I'm praying, I'm praying. I'm putting little post its around my PC here at work for strength.

So far, all I've read is SAA, and it depressed me terribly. I don't know if OW is still in picture, I know she's there in his heart either way, and that's a huge hurt for me.

DANG that ow anyway. I've got a real viper myself. but repeat after me....FORGET HER-don't let her have any of you and your spirit-concentrate on YOU and your foggy mate-its him-not you and not her.

I read this when the viper gets under my skin:

ONE THAT DEALS IN EVIL SHALL FLEE TO THEIR OWN DOOM, LET NONE STAND IN THEIR WAY

I've had a few meetings with her-much to her dismay-shes a coward and a menace. I've listened to her lies, her pleadings and her fog. I've seen her actions and they don't follow her words. Shes chosen her pathetic position and she is killing herself with her own poison. I haven't seen anyone post this lately but this is TRUE;

RESENTMENT IS LIKE SWALLOWING POISON AND WAITING FOR THE OTHER PERSON TO DIE.

everyday- try again to let her go, shes counting on you letting her eat you alive. Eleanor Roosevelt said this: YOU GAIN STRENGTH, COURAGE AND CONFIDENCE BY EVERY EXPERIENCE IN WHICH YOU REALLY STOP TO LOOK FEAR IN THE FACE...YOU MUST DO THE THING THAT YOU CANNOT DO.

have you run out of post-it notes yet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

PEACE OUT...and IN !

My marriage is in trouble.
I think serious trouble.
I don't think this is the only OW.
Just this one got emotional attached.
I'm leaning more and more towards this is an internet thing.

How else is someone in TEXAS going to be involved with my WH here in JERSEY ?

I've found floppy disks of pictures of women. Recently he got a camera phone.

I'm seeing real issues here.

Can't poke, this may have been going on during my entire marriage. I wouldn't know.

God does, and I'll let him lead me.

This is agony, but I've picked my drop dead date.
May 16th. 3 months from D-Day.Also his birthday.
Also the weekend we are supposed to go to the Poconos.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
IF, nothing changes EITHER way, and I'm still stuck in some sick holding pattern, it's time for me to fly.

Hopefully by then it either won't come to that, OR... I'm strong enough to move on and know I've done my part.

Of course he doesn't KNOW May 16th is end of line day. I'm just not willing to let my life lie in limbo past that.

I put 6 years into this. And maybe only 5 were good. But I will not allow myself to be crucified for the mistakes I've made either. I'm trying. Seeing the problem was half the battle.

Unfortunately, I think this is EXACTLY where WH wants to be. Face it, has me, has her, has mom waiting on his every beckon call. No cooking, no cleaning....just continuous affection from all concerned. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

What a fool I'm being played for.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
Well 2 months,I guess I can be played a fool for 2 months. Then that big fat A word goes down on paper and I get the spousal support I'm entitled to, and don't let the Door hit him where the Good Lord split him. His loss. I'm a decent and above all HONEST person. My fault was severe, but I really only had ONE. The kids. Needless to say, I'm fixing that on my own, and she'll be 18, he just turned 20... how much longer will they really be a "the" problem ?

Betrayed,

I have never posted here, but my heart just breaks for you, & even though my situation is a different, OC is involved. I have no children w/ my H so it puts me in a "why are you trying to work this out anyway?" category. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am attaching a prayer that I hope will help you in your stand. Take care of yourself & try not to rush plan A. I just found this site last month & have done everything opposite of Plan A & it doesn't seem fair that we the BS seem to have to do all the work but that is the way it is. Doing it my way certainly has not produced any positive results.

Hope this comforts you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We pray that God will grant ____________ and all prodigals repentance, leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to
their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to his will. Thank You Father that You have rescued our
prodigals from the dominion of darkness and brought them into the kingdom of the Son He loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgive-
ness of their sins.

We pray that each prodigal will count themselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. We pray that they will not let sin reign in
their mortal body so they will not obey its evil desire. Our prayer is that ____________ and each prodigal will offer themselves to God, as
those who have been brought from death to life; and offer their body to Him as instruments of righteousness.

Search ____________ and each
prodigal, O God, and know their heart; test them and know theiranxious thoughts. See if their is any offensive way in them, and lead them in the way everlasting.

Set ____________ and each prodigal free
from their prison, that each one may praise Your name. Lord cleanse ____________ and all prodigals from all their impurities and from all their idols. Give them a new heart and put a new spirit in them.

Remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Lord, You said You would save them from all their uncleanness. Thank
You Lord, that You will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and You will cleanse them. Lord You said, on the day You cleanse____________ and our prodigals from all their sins, You will resettle their towns and the ruins will be rebuilt.

All will know that You the Lord have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was
desolate. You have spoken, and You will do it. They will be Your people, and You will be their God. You will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear You for their own good and the good of their children after them. Praise the Lord. Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever. Amen.

(Scriptures taken from: 2 Timothy 2:25-26, Colossians 1:13-14, Romans
6:11-13, Psalm 139:23-24, Psalm 142:7, Ezekiel 36:25-26,29,33,36,
Ezekiel 37:23, Jeremiah 32:38, and Psalm 106:1.)

What are the chances that my WH is just spending time with me, "every now and then".... because he really DOESN'T love me, truly wants the other person, and is just feeling overwhelmed with guilt, until I get into a stronger place.

I wonder about that seriously.

I mean, if I pull back 100%, and keep absolutely positive, that I'm okay. I'm doing great...

Any thoughts ?

i dont want to make the day any worse, but after beeing married a short time why in jersey do you think your gonna get spousal support???

i live here and i have never heard of it. i dont want you to set yourself up because your counting on something that isnt there.

Hi Jersey,

I have read the first couple pages of your posts.
You and I kinda of have something in common.
Where in Texas is that OW? I'll explain later.
Ali!

All I know is Center Texas, not much more.

I have a good shot at spousal support, especially since he's agreeable to it.

Can't seem to get my act together folks.

I'm starting to think Plan A is only enabling him.

The thoughts are running through my head at the speed of light at this point.

I am now off the rollercoaster and landed face down in the tilt-a-whirl.

Stop this madness, I want to get off.

I understand and Im not going to tell you what to do. Problem with this whole mess is when the rollercoasters going, you never know what to believe or how to act. It sucks and thats all I can really except to tell you I will pray for you.

I'm sorry folks but I gave up last night. I guess to you all it's Plan B, but not to me.
I'm tired of crying myself to sleep every night, knowing he's talking to her.
I've heard now she's moving up here and may be pregnant.
I'll be okay.
I wish you all the very best of luck, and hope you have the strength and endurance to get your marriages back.
I choose no. I'd rather be alone.
Good luck to you all, and thank you for all the support you've given to me throughout this difficult time.
My WH is not the man I married, and in my heart, he'll never be again, that man died someway, so I'll just mourn his passing.
I know in time, I'll be okay, but know for ME....this is the right thing.

Oh betrayed! Many hugs your way.

You are truly a strong woman. I read part of this thread and your strengh shows everywhere. You deserve the best.

hiya jersey- really hate to see you "toss it in" so quickly- hope you can relax and really figure out if D is best-ultimatums are hard to give and receive- praying for the best for you ALL......

PEACE OUT ...and IN !

What are the chances of his fog working in my favor right now ?
I've LB'd like crazy over the last two days.
I am so hurt. I can't keep my feelings in check.
I'm so lost.
I'm so confused.
It's NOT getting better it's getting worse.

Betrayed - please don't give up so easily. You need to stick with us and get support. I am very close to D, but plan to stay here through the D, and maybe even into dating again.

I plan to fully recover from this so I don't drag these problems along for the rest of my life. You can too.

It's been a long time since I posted ... and I rarely post in this forum at all, but I heard about betrayedinjersey and came to see if there was any kind of support I could offer.

Let me start by saying that reading your thread made me cry. And there's a couple of reasons why... First, it sucks, it hurts like nothing else ever can hurt - I know it, I've been there, and reading your thread brought me back to my own situation. Second, from all that I've read about your story and situation, you really do have a chance to make a new marriage with this man, and it makes me sad that you want to give up already.

So... I hope you will find some of this useful or inspiring or something... and I hope you can forgive my bouncing around from one thing to another, because it's after midnight and my brain is not so useful at this time of day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I might be able to offer better support in a more interactive environment, but I thought it best to start here.

First, I will echo the advice given by all the others here. You are in too much pain to make major decisions with clarity. The piece of paper saying you are divorced doesn't have to come tomorrow... or next week. And even if it did, it doesn't go away with that piece of paper. If you rush to get a divorce right now, you will never know for sure if you could have saved the marriage. If you wait, read the books, believe in the concepts that Dr. Harley and many others write about, and apply them to the best of your ability, no matter how it all works out in the end, you will KNOW that you YOU did everything you could have done. And, believe me, that is so very important...

Now, I'm not remembering every detail, so forgive me if I misremember or ask something you've already answered elsewhere. Are you counseling with anyone? If so, is it a pro-marriage individual who is familiar with Dr. Harley's Marriage Builders approach? If not Dr. Harley, perhaps some of these names: Michele Weiner-Davis (Divorce Busting), Dr. Phil, Gary Chapman ... It doesn't matter if he will go or not, YOU should go. If you can't find anyone who uses the approaches of Marriage Builders or any of the other names here, perhaps at least one telephone session with Steve Harley or one of the other excellent Marriage Builders counselors might help. I recall that you mentioned anti-d's somewhere. I went on anti-depressants when my husband left, and I would probably not be here today if I hadn't. There is nothing wrong with getting a little bit of assistance smoothing out the sharp emotional edges for a few months - or however long it takes - and they don't numb you or make you "happy" - they help even out the extremes that you will experience throughout this process. If you are planning on taking them, remember that it can take up to 3 weeks before you really begin to feel a difference - and try try try to be patient.

From what I've read, your husband is following a pretty classic pattern. One thing that helped me be patient was reading everything about recovering a marriage that I could get my hands on. The statistics are sobering: Estimates are that upwards of 75% of all marriages encounter some kind of infidelity. But infidelity is actually not the most prevalent reason for divorce, and there are far more marriages that have recovered from infidelity than anyone would imagine. It IS possible, and it's happening here and now. Divorce, while quite often touted as harmless, proves to be at the heart of the emotional problems of adult children as well as minor children - including step-children. Married people live longer than single people...

I don't advocate that people stay married no matter what. Certainly physical abuse and mental cruelty are good reasons for divorce (although, with the proper intervention and counseling, some abusive marriages can even recover) And it is far more likely that a marriage counselor will eventually recommend divorce if there are no children of the marriage - unfortunately for some of us, divorce is more likely to be the outcome if there are no children.

And there are other statistics and things to learn about relationships. You are FAR better off with him being involved with someone who is at a distance than with someone who is right in the same town. The OW will be love-busting right and left, and if YOU can Plan A (even if you limit contact with him, you can Plan A - sometimes even better), then his time with her will be aggravating and unpleasant, and his time with you will be soothing and calm. And in Plan A, you are learning good relationship skills and applying them to your own relationship. Even if your marriage does not recover, you will have learned invaluable lessons about yourself and about intimate relationships... And by following the Marriage Builders plans A & B for surviving an affair, you do all that you can to save your marriage, and then you protect yourself until it is either saved or over. Read the books - read everything about saving marriages that you can get your hands on.

Read the articles on this site - several of them are referenced in other areas of the forum. I noticed the word "enabling" many times in this thread - read Dr. Harley's take on "enabling" and "co-dependence" - I think you will find it interesting and refreshing.

One thing I think is a key thing to remember: Look at the positive things about your marriage and your life, because they are how things can be if you work at recovering your marriage. Your marriage is a major part of you and of your life. You said you have been involved with this man for over 6 years, and maybe 5 of them have been good... Well, instead of looking at it negatively, look at it this way: Only one of them hasn't been good. Remember what it was about your husband that attracted you to him in the first place... and what was it about you that attracted him? Why did you marry this particular man?

I noticed you said that he is no longer the man you married ... you know, that's very true. And your marriage will never be the same again. Things really cannot go back to the way they used to be. However, they can be BETTER than they were. Nobody should go off and betray his or her spouse in order to make his/her marriage better - but the fact remains that because of this, you will learn more about yourself, your feelings, your marriage and you will learn about how to make the best marriage you can have. Relationship skills can be used in all of your relationships - family, friends - not just your marriage. Sometimes learning how to make your non-marital relationships better helps to make your marital relationship better. And even if you don't save it, you will have given it your best, your all, everything you could have given.

Finally, I just want to say that you have gotten more response and input from your husband over the last 3 weeks than many of us ever got from any of our spouses. Many of us would give our right arms for our spouses to have spent intimate time with us, or to have even told us that there was a chance. Which reminds me of one other thing I wanted to say ... Try not to judge your progress on what your husband says or does right now. While the MB catch phrase "the fog" does fit rather well, it's a little more complicated than that. There are varying degrees of betrayal in a marriage... remember there are other vows that have likely been broken along the way by both of you. We rarely remember all of the vows we make in marriage. We promised to love, to honor, to cherish, in sickness and health, for better or worse ... Most of us break the honor and cherish parts quite early on and pretty regularly. Unfortunately, that's what will most often lead to the conditions that lead some of our spouses to believe that there is no more love, that they need to look elsewhere for their happines. Don't get me wrong - YOU did nothing to make him have an affair. That was a choice that he made all on his own. If he had treated having an affair the way all married couples should treat important decisions, then he would have asked you what you thought about that - and you would certainly not have said "Gee, hon, I think that's a great idea - go right ahead." There was no marital discussion about whether or not cheating was something that should happen. It was a selfish and hurtful decision on his part. But it was one that somehow seemed right to him at the time. And where his head is at right now is some place that you can't understand. He made this choice to have an affair because he felt his emotional needs weren't being met in the marriage. He may feel betrayed in that respect. After the emotional withdrawal that you describe in your marriage, he will find your turn around very difficult to believe in. I remember my husband saying "what if you go back to being the way you were before?" and I understood that he was suspicious of my changes, that he didn't believe that I could maintain the changes I had made to myself FOR myself. The only way you can convince him that his best choice is you and the marriage, is by making changes in yourself as recommended by Marriage Builders and other pro-marriage counselors and/or organizations and maintaining those changes. That takes time and patience. In that time, you will discover YOURSELF. And you will learn to love yourself - which really IS the greatest love of all. There is much truth in the often quoted "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours; if it doesn't then it never really was." It's a crazy difficult balance to keep at a time when our emotional stability isn't so great... Plan A and protecting ourselves from further hurt. You can do it. You have to believe in you and your marriage.

I hope that this has been of some comfort, help, or something. At the very least, I hope it has been coherent enough to understand. Feel free to e-mail if you'd like.

Terri, thank you so much for clarifying some demons in my mind.

The last 2 days have been extremely difficult.

I couldn't seem to understand why one minute I wanted to try, and the next minute I wanted to quit.

My sister talked to me and she wasn't meaning to lead me in the direction I took, but one of the things she said was the reason I'm so emotionally drained is that I'm in limbo and haven't truly MADE a decision either way. She said, you have to make a decision and stick to it. Know that either decision comes with both positive and negative outcomes.

I contemplated this and really thought about what was going on inside my head. I had convinced myself in order to get off the rollercoaster, I have to give up and walk away.

I had a revelation. And you can NOT believe the difference it's made in my life. The mistakes that have been made by both myself AND my husband are in total disrepair. HOWEVER, I love my WH with every beat of my heart. If I continue to try to push that feeling away, I only hurt myself.

So I put the past in a box and handed it over to God. Yesterday was the beginning. What got me here, isn't what is going to get me OUT of here. Every time I hear something the OW said sneaking into my head, I rebuke it.

This is MY day, this is MY life, this pain is not going to cripple me, I can't not fix what's broken, and I made the mistake of trying.

I can start over. And that's what I chose to do. My actions from this point on, have nothing to do with my WH. My new found attitude is not interdependant on him.

When he came over last night, he was quite suspicious. He kept looking at me with the puzzled look on his face. And I looked at him at one point and said why do you keep looking at me that way. I said What way....he said...you're up to something.

I told him, I'm not up to anything. The past is the past. It's over, it's too heavy a burden to carry with me every day so I'm leaving it where it belongs.

I told him the fact remains, I'm very much in love with him, his knee jerk reaction was to ask me if I was SO in love with him, why is he out of the house ?

I could have had some nice encouraging words for him, which would have turned into a he said she said, but instead, I rebuked it and said, WH, that was something that happened in the past. I'm not revisiting it. I see the pain in your face every single day, and if you could see you way into letting it all go...you'd feel relief too.

You saw the light go off then and there. He left, kissed me goodbye, borrowed some of his DVDs for his mom. While walking to his car, without looking back, I heard him mumble, she's up to something, I know it.

TADA !

Today is the first morning I've taken myself out of the bed and felt that the weight of this situation was going to bury me.

Thank you all again for your support and encouragement. You are all touchstones that carry me through my days.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm sorry for not replying sooner, I’ve been away and this is the first chance I’ve had to post..

Heartbroken,
I hate the FOG, there is nothing more we BS wish for that dim light bulb to finally go off for the WH to go, WHAT AM I DOING ???[/B]
This is much easier said than done; "BREATHE", what you are going through is normal, you'll have days when you're going to want to throw in the towel and the next day you'll say "What was I thinking? I think we can really make it work." And the next day you'll be feeling something else; anger, frustration, hurt, despair, happiness, peace, it's a pattern I think everyone of us has gone through.

It is not unusual for the WS to keep the OW and the BS on the fence. As much as this hurts, he's getting something from her that he's not getting from you, and you're giving him something that he's not getting from her. In his mind, he's probably thinking he's got the best of both worlds. Fog is a terrible and confusing time not only for the WS but for us as well, because tend to second guess our decisions and judgment we too are in a sort of fog, between accepting and denying and we are constantly on a roller coaster: One minute up then the next down.

The progress in my M at the beginning was slow, the OW was still around and to make matters worse, we all worked at the same place, although I don't work with my H or OW we work for the same company, so I had to see her all the time (she's still there) that made recovery even harder for me. But I refused to give up, I knew that my H loved me, I would look in his eyes and I saw the love that he still had for me even though he wanted to leave. I would not give up I married him for better or for worse. I took my vows to heart and when I said I do. The worse had come before the better but I believed in my vows, my marriage and the love I still felt we shared.

At the height, he moved out into his own apartment and kept me on one side of the fence and the OW on the other. After two months, I had enough and left for a couple of days without telling him, to soul search and to find out what it was I really wanted – stay or leave. I made arrangements for my kids and left. This drove him nuts because he was so used to me being there when he called, when he didn't know where I was, he called everyone looking for me, only one person knew where I was in case they needed to contact me for emergency. I did not give in, he finally figured out where I could possibly be and wanted to “fight” for us. He slipped one more time after that, and that is when I absolutely had it. I went to work and threw my wedding ring at her, slapped her across the face, told her if she wanted my H she could I have him I was through. I was off on mental stress otherwise I would have been fired for doing what I did.

He got angry at me for doing this to him, I told him I did nothing to him, he did it to himself and I left, told me I embarrassed him, humiliated him. Honestly, I didn’t care, I felt empowered that day and that was the beginning of the end.

That night he ended it with her, we had rough times and scary times, I went through the withdrawal with him, when he would mope around or just stare into space. This lasted about six months.
I could go on and on about all the things that went on with us. It has been 3 years and there are days where it's still hard sometimes, but our marriage is stronger and better.

As you have probably read, we have all been where you are right now one way or another. Right now it’s hard for you because you’re in the middle of it. Three years ago, I thought I would never get over it, that I would never be happy I was at the lowest place in my life. But, the promising thing is – things do get better with time.

Don’t give in or up yet. From what I’m reading you’re H is receptive to what you’re doing. Slowly bring your future up in conversations. Take advantage of the time that you do spend together, he will see what he could lose. I know it’s hard for you to believe but it’s true. I am one of the many who have been there and have proven that you can survive this.

This board is a life saver for many people, almost everyone on here knows how you’re feeling and what you’re dealing with.

If I were to offer you advice it would be this: Do not give up so easily, you are doing a fantastic job and like I said you will have your days, it’s not easy and people don’t pretend that it is, it is hard. A lot of people here are telling you not to give up so easy, I’m one of them. You are in the very beginning of discovering your H’s A. We all know what you’re going through, we’ve been there. Come here to vent like you’ve been doing, get the anger, the hurt, the pain out on this board.

If you’re not seeing an IC, that could be something you look into, it helps a lot. I saw one for 8 months and I think it was one of the best things I did. Also, write in a journal, sometimes writing your deepest feelings and re-reading them can be amazing therapy.

You’re doing great, keep it up.

Hugs.

GO JERSEY! now yer gettin' it.....!! hard to see and give yourself a break thru the red blur of extreme pain- CHOOSING is DAILY- praying for you....

PEACE OUT...and IN !!

I completely understand what you're saying "Heartbroken".
Letting go of all that's happened was a torturing experience.
There are no guarantees in life.
But my WH is not going to get an opportunity to walk away from someone hurtful and angry.
He's going to have to close the door on someone happy, supportive, loving, and forgiving.
At my lowest point, where I want to lash out at him, I'll be HERE, lashing out. I can not do that to him EVER again. What's done is done, if I keep pouring gas on the fire, it will never go out, and continue to burn everyone.

I'm trying !
I keep falling over myself, but I'm trying.
My WH always told me, still tells me, I think too much. Then my thinking turns into things that aren't even close to being true.
I'm trying NOT to do anything.
time, patience, space, kindness, no emotional outbursts, no pushing, no nagging.
it's SO hard !

This is the part of the day when I start to lose my cool. Haven't heard anything from WH today at all, no call or anything. $500 has been taken out of the primary account. I THINK it's to pay his mother rent for the 3 weeks he's been there so far.

I know...time...space...patience...when you're used to hearing from someone every single day for the last six years of your life, you MISS it, and your mind starts to wonder.

Last night was a good start, I know I can't retreat, he may be testing me. I have to be steadfast in my actions. Please help me be steadfast.

Today is the first day in 6 years I haven't spoken or seen my WH.

My heart is full of sadness right now.

I think I'm trying to give him time to come back to me, and I think he's taking the time to try to go on without me.

I have to accept what's meant to be, will be, and what's not meant to be will just never happen.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hang in there. You are still very new to this. You will have lots of ups and downs. It is not good at first, but will get better later.

Last night I heard nothing. For the first time I started to believe this may be parting on friendly terms. We had coffee this morning, we talked about work and stuff, no relationship talk. He's been working quite a lot of hours. He didn't mention that he'd call me, or see me. Just kissed me goodbye a couple times.

One day at a time, just one day at a time. Yesterday was the 1st day in 6 years I didn't talk to him or see him. As hard as it was not to call him, I didn't.

I'm starting to feel it's over in my heart. Not on my part, on his. That's a hard pill to swallow, and I'm doing the best I can with it. The lightbulb still hasn't gone off for him. I know he loves me, it's in his eyes, when he looks at me, it's in his kiss. But I'm convinced he's trying to learn to live life without me. By giving him time and space, no pressure, and no pursuing, I realize that I am probably enabling that, but what choice am I left with ?

My heart hurts <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Sounds very familiar. My wife just admitted in coundelling that she really doesnt want to be around me. Doesnt like me, but she loves me. Im telling ya I know how it feels to be the only one putting forth any effort at all. I know how much it hurts and I know how angry it makes you. From all of the things I've been reading on this site, he could still wake up as could my wife.. I'm not really holding my breath right now though. As far as the not calling goes I understand, I struggle with that every day. Its just not fair to be treated like the unclean thing when you arent the one that strayed. Hang in there and keep praying. I really need to say thanks again to everyone who has put in their 2 cents. Helps to slow down the rollercoaster ride.

Medic,
I've been praying, but to be honest, last night I was on my knees, and I prayed out loud for about 30 minutes.

I turned this over 100%, asked for comfort and acceptance. Thanked God for the gift of the opportunity to find my WH.

Prayed for the strength and comfort to accept whatever his (God's) plan is for me.

It helped.

I am weak.

It's just sad that we have no way of knowing if any effort we ever put into this is really worth it. I know everyone is right about, helping yourself, knowing yourself better, the future YOU. I'll tell you what. The future me will be forever single.

I'm a good friend, a good daughter, a good mother, a good aunt, a good worker, an honest, caring person. If I can't be my WH good wife, then it just isn't in the cards for me.

The rollercoaster ride continues.

FOG TALK ????

Tonight I was going to a "mutual" friends house that we hadn't seen for quite some time.

I decided to leave WH a voicemail, asking if this was appropriate, if he was okay with it, as long as I didn't discuss what's really happening...i.e...the A.

About 30 minutes later....out of CLEAR blue...WH calls me...chatting about how many hours he has to work today and tomorrow...has to get up at 2 AM....never brings up my message.

I BRING UP...did you get my voicemail...WH says...yea... says...you can go over there...I don't see why you have to tell them anything. I said, being in PLAN A and all.... if you're not comfortable with me going over there, I won't. Now he gets aggitated, tells me...do what you want, it's YOUR life, I'm not going to tell you what to do with it.

EVERYONE TELLS ME.... HE'LL BE BACK....WE KNOW WH...HE'LL BE BACK....HE LOVES YOU.. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

My heart is telling me he'll NEVER be back. I love him, WANT him back.... am in Plan A until I am in agony...he isn't coming back. Not now, not ever.

If the FOG would LIFT...I'd have a better shot...but tonight I realized he's still DEEP in FOG.

How long does FOG last ???????

Don't THINK OW is still in picture. Can't be sure, won't ask.

One day he wants to be around me, calls me , the next day I'm nonexistent in his mind. What gives. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Betrayed and Medic -

Both of you need to hang in there. You are very new to this. My WH was completely gone from my life for 3 months - no visits, no money, nothing. Then all of a sudden he showed up and wanted to reconcile. I think if I had stuck to the program here (Plan A) we would be back together by now.

But I threw him out on D-day. I had completely given up on our marriage and suddenly he was back in my life. You two are just in the beginning of this. Miracles do happen everyday.

Believer, I threw my WH out on Dday as well. I know it's against these beliefs, but I didn't know of them until later on.

HOWEVER, in my particular case, this would not have worked if I hadn't.

My WH is difficult to live with WITHOUT the A, and my instability right now.

I'm not in a place to be in Plan A consistently EVERY day, and am sometimes glad all I get is a call...because it's difficult to hide ANGER.

I'm trying...every day...I'm trying. How will it end...we may never know.

How are ya today Jersey? Just wondering about ya.

Hi Medic,
You know, ups, downs, want to give up, want to crawl up and shut the world out. Want to think of the positives, but can't. At least I'm not bombarding him with these ups and downs.

You know, your heart tells you one thing, your head tells you another.

My heart, won't give up, but my head, tells me...let go and move on.

How are you doing ? Weekends are the worst aren't they ?

Sundays are the worst. Right now I'm having some fun with the kids. They are howevertrying my patience today. I woke up several times last night to two little girls kicking me. I ended up going and sleeping in their room. I posted a link on the thread that I started, that you should try and look at. I have fought the urge to forward it to my wife but I think it would only make her angrier right now. Take care, and try to male the best of it.

Some days seem SO easy, while others seem impossible.

I can't find a trigger, that makes the day turn either way. It just is.

I'm not sure I've gotten through a single day without tears of some kind, either frustration, anger, resentment, sadness, or pure heartbreak.

Time...Time...Time.

I want the crystal ball that tells me how this will all end so I can plan accordingly.

I tried to get to your thread earlier, but was unable to load the page. I'll try again.

Have a fun day !

I am getting to the point that I want to give up again.

Why don't I have any patience ?

Patience is a virtue right ?

Do I no longer have virtues ?

I'm starting to feel desperate.

I'm so darned lonely I can't stand it. All the company in the world doesn't chase away my feeling of total confinement to my own heartbreak.

I feel like such a loser.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

hey jersey- crying. for me... a solid year+ EVERYDAY and I am the least likely-who knew. turned out to be just what was necessary-I think it was therapeutic and I let it happen. I also sat in this chair and read for 6 months- about 8 hours a day. learning- changing,choosing,forgiving. I switched from the trauma center here at JFO to recovery very quickly- can't say if that was good or bad but its what I did. We never lived apart- don't think it would have helped. Plan A is not easy- alot of it works but you've got to follow your gut too. as long as my H is MY H, I feel free to call him and say I feel bad- I feel better- I feel "whatever" - I had to learn to shut up and walk away too-but if I felt like coming back- I did that too. try to relax- write- writing has amazing power- to figure things out- read it later and see how your ideas and feelings have changed and grown-from night til morning- from week to week- soon months will go by and you will see major changes. you will survive.

Once you have chosen and made clear your choice, keep at it. if you choose to say "bag it" , aren't you doing essentially what your WS did? If you had fallen so hard.......would you want someone to look for your lost self? theres no shame in putting your M back together- hang in there- chin up while the waters rise...!

PEACE OUT...and IN !

Good morning Sprezz.
Today I woke up feeling differently once again. What I have learned is not to let WH see this side. That's why its a good thing he isn't here.

It's slipping away. He's letting it go, and a little bit day by day, I'm letting it go too. I'm not calling, and his calls are more and more infrequent. I only saw him once for about 30 minutes this whole week.

I'm not chasing. I'm working at it, but I'm not chasing. There's some self respect left in me after all.

Of course by tomorrow I'll feel badly again, and want to try to change the course of things a little bit, but I realized that I don't have that ability. I can only control my own course.

Perhaps I'll love my WH forever. I've been told that he may live this way for the rest of his days, do I really want to carry his burden too ?

Since Dday, I've been the one putting forth all the effort. He got to bath in the Plan A, had to struggle through my temper tantrums once or twice. In the end I ended up apologizing to him for badgering him. What is THAT ?

Not since Dday, only one other time, had I heard any true remorse from him. He easily forgave himself for what he did to me, but can't find it in his heart to forgive me for my mistakes ?

Live and let live.

One day at a time. My journey continues.

dear betrayed---what "THAT" IS, is a selfished, fogged in wandering spouse who will someday have to face all this alone in a mirror. doing plan A relieves you of "THAT". you will be able to say i have done a good job and tried my best. he wont. he will someday face the guilt he is hidding from you, and let me tell you----its gonna suck to be him!

keep posting---we are here for ya!

I'm there today nikko. Don't know what tomorrow brings. I do have to admit, staying consistent in Plan A is a much better place.

Of course I have my down right can't pick myself off the floor moments. But those glimpses of what he's doing to himself sneak in, and I find some awkward comfort in it.

I hope he learns to let it go, I hope he learns to forgive himself, because I know until he is able to do those things, our marriage is dying a slow death.

However, HE'LL live the rest of HIS life knowing....I had something good, something GREAT...and I gave it up, I threw it away.

I hope in time.... if our marriage ends in divorce, he finds someone, and loves them as much as I loved him, someone he trusts with all his heart, someone he'd stand by no matter what...and I hope that woman does the SAME thing to him.

THEN my WH will truly understand Karma.

3 days without seeing WH really played with his mind. He called me yesterday, called me last night at bedtime.

We had coffee this morning. We spent most of the time just kissing. He doesn't say he loves me, but it's in his eyes. I won't say it either. He wants to come over later. He'll call me and let me know.

I said to him... I think you miss me...he admitted he did. I said isn't it aggrivating...he said what...I said.. the fact you can't walk away from me ? He said... you annoy the [censored] out of me. I said...I haven't bothered you at all, I've been good...he said...so far.

So Plan A is definately making my WH more attracted to me. I just have to learn to stay in it when things take the 180 again. That's where I keep making the mistake. I think we all go through...it's going to be okay...no it's not going to work...it's going to be okay...no it's not going to work... if I'm not consistent in my actions, he won't be able to see that it WILL be okay in time.

Any suggestions ?

I need a man's opinion here.

What the heck is my WH doing ?

Regardless of the fog, do men keep returning to the "BAD" place for any particular reason ?

I've given him every reason to stay away from me, yet he keeps bouncing in and out of my life.

He won't tell me he wants to make the marriage work. He just says one day at a time.

I keep making the mistake when he comes around that he wants to be married to me.

Honestly, could I just be a habit he can't seem to kick ?

[ April 15, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]

At this point I don't know if he still has contact with the OW or not.

I'm still in Plan A. There was a lot of things I did that contributed to the breakdown of our marriage.

It's only been a month since Dday. I was never given his side of the story because I went to OW first. My WH never got an opportunity to tell me what happened, how, why, when, etc.

I'm not in a place to go to Plan B yet. IF and when I do get there, I'm prepared to go there, meaning, he choses to have no further contact with OW, period, and commits to making the marriage work.

It didn't take one month for my marriage to break down, and it's going to take more than a month to repair it.

Remember, not everyone decides on Dday that they've made a horrible mistake and ends the A. He's told me that he knows we have a great thing, he'd like to try to rebuild it.

I've gone through quite the rollercoaster with him over the last month. Including telling him I wanted a divorce (I've been telling him that for 6 months or more now).

I've said those things to try to threaten him into doing something or not doing something I wanted him to do.

Regardless of what's happened, and the fact we are married, my WH is still a person, with his own feelings, his own emotions, his own mistakes, and his own way of dealing with them.

He does see the strong side of me. But he also sees the person that has stood beside him where everyone else abandoned him.

I don't intend to stay in Plan A for the rest of my life, I have a drop dead date in my mind. Until I've reached that date, I'm working really hard on Plan A, to be a more attractive spouse to my WH. I don't want to set him up for failure any more than I want to set myself up for failure.

I like being intimate with him, I enjoy the coffee and I enjoy the kisses, and I WANT that. I'm not willing to let him have it at any cost, but for right now, this is who I WANT to be. I want him to feel that I'm his wife, for better or worse, and I have broad shoulders, he hasn't destroyed who I am.

WH just called. Did not mention coming over. Talked about his day. I listened. I asked how his mom was doing.

We spoke about nothing for 30 minutes. The whole time this wondering if he's going to talk to her tonight. BUT...I pushed it aside. Thinking about that won't help me.

He said he'd call me tomorrow, and I said okay. Then right before I hung up, he asked if we were going to have coffee in the morning.

I said sure.

If this is my first step, I like it. I like seeing rewards for my Plan A. I can not attack him anymore. I have to be the lighthouse.

I love my WH, and I want our marriage to work out. I can't imagine my life without him. He's my best friend, my lover, my entertainment. I find myself falling in love with HIM again with the plan A.

I don't know if that's what it's supposed to do or not, but right now, it's doing the trick for both of us.

He's much more receptive to me, when I'm not bashing him to death.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
I'm not in a place to go to Plan B yet. IF and when I do get there, I'm prepared to go there, meaning, he choses to have no further contact with OW, period, and commits to making the marriage work. <hr /></blockquote>Hi jersey- plan B is when you stop seeing him etc...til he makes up his mind. have I misunderstood what you wrote?

I hope that plan A- being the best you- does the job. Plan A is a lifetime plan, easy to see it makes sense- not so easy to follow through every moment! I hope the ow is gone-anyway for you to find out? at some point you'll have to discuss it. only you know your h and what to do/say each day-what to try-when to shut up and walk away. MB is a great support place and the principles are sound- but each couple has their own personality and there is no sure cure in a book. a month is so early- I think you are doing fine- you are trying and learning and giving it all you've got. the OP doesn't just disappear in most cases- thats the hard part. at some point I do believe there is some fear on the WS side of saying "I love you" or anything like that to their BS- they can see the devastation they have brought and pride keeps them fogged in still. I've been watching my h's MLC unfold for a long time- it just isn't quick or easy. Stay true to yourself- follow your gut- pray alot and remember it takes a long time to reconcile all the frayed bits.

PEACE OUT...and IN !!

I had coffee with WH again this morning. He made me cry. I held it in until I left.

He looked at me...hard right in my eyes...and said...Blondie...and laughed a little... he said...you remember that (referring to what he called me when we first started dating)

Looked away, and he started to cry.

I said.. hey..what's wrong.

He said...nothing. and turned away again.

I asked again... no, tell me... he said... how did we let this happen.

Instead of saying much.. all I said ...it's going to be okay. It happens to everyone. Just take some time, and think no matter how hard it is right now, it may be a price we have to pay for something better.

He's still really hurting. I left upbeat. But once I pulled that truck away, I cried all the way to work.

Betrayed

I wanted to say I'm sorry for what you are going through right now and if my last post seemed harsh I apologize. You are right to do what you feel is the right thing for your life and what your heart tells you to do and you are handling things very well I think..and with alot of grace and poise..

I was only concerned that he is on the fence and needs help in making a decision. He is so in the fog of the affair and it seems he cant give up either of you and it is torturing him. I have no idea of course, just conjecture, and based on the things I have gone through myself. The fog is thick and the withdrawals are difficult even if you realize who you truly love (which was always my husband).. it takes alot of strength to let go of the fantasy and the 'love and excitement' feelings are so addictive...also the guilt towards the one you are leaving behind makes the decision very painful.

I just wanted to say I hope soon he will see the light and find his way home as it is clear from your posts he loves you very much.

Thinking of you,
Lmh

[ March 23, 2004, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]

Unfortunately, through this difficult time, he seems to be going further back into our relationship to before things started to go wrong.

In this process, he's feeling more pain and guilt than I think he can handle. I had my faults too, I made more than a few mistakes in the last year.

I'm hoping that we can reconnect, really find each other again, and use this time apart to heal the pain, and mend what we broke.

It's difficult. I've been more willing to let go of all the bad things easier than he seems to be.

I hope he doesn't think he's destined to a life of not being with me, but not being able to be away from me either.

My dream is that he just throws himself, mind, heart, body and soul into giving this another try. I don't think he's quite there yet, but somewhere in his heart, it's there. I keep on with Plan A, and continue to be the lighthouse, perhaps he can let himself become vulnerable and risk it.

I know I'll never let him down again, but I'm sure until he knows he'll never let me down again, those defenses he has will stay very much intact.

Again he's suggesting he'll come over tomorrow night. There's something going on there. Not sure what it is yet. He may be feeling out the waters. Trying to keep me open to the idea, but not being able to come over without letting his whole defense break down.

His kisses are warming. Not rushed, not passion crazed teenagers, but very loving, very soft, and not hello goodbye kisses either. There's something there, I feel it, I know he feels it.

STILL in Plan A, because the results are much better than letting my love for him turn into resentment and bitterness. He made a terrible misjudgement, he has to fight that demon, and if he can find strength in MY Plan A, to assist him with his fight. (he just called me at work...no reason..had a question about something...liar)

Like someone here told me, I have a Plan, and can find strength in it. He's flying by the seat of his pants with no guidance no plan. When the time is right, I'll offer him some reading material from here.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Jersey, I'm glad to hear you saying that. I'm very happy to hear that you have some hope. I certainly understand how it is to feel like there is hope one minute and none the next. I'm not the only one. I feel like some prayers are getting answered for you and me and I hope they will continue to go that direction. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hi There Medic. It's SO hard to stay in a good place. No matter how positive things seem to go, we know there's a blind curve up ahead that's waiting to knock us right over.

I am finding Plan A easier to stay in now. It's helping a lot, not going back and forth. It's just very hard not to let yourself believe there my be a light at the end of the tunnel, that all is not lost.

And then real life wakes you up every day, and work is still here every single day, and I get irritated that the rest of the world won't stop for me to figure out what the heck is going on with my life.

I step outside of myself from time to time, and realize, there isn't a guarantee for anything. But I'm getting better. I'm able to sleep at night, alone. I'm able to concentrate more on work. I'm able to NOT pick up that phone and call and question him. I'm able to stop beating myself up. I've learned to Let Go, and Let God.

I can only control me, I can only decide my own path. It's not up to me to try to control anyone else's. THAT is what I pray for.

I'm going to say something special in my prayers for your anniversary dinner.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you. I may need it. Wife did not go to her counselling today. Said she thought it was 1130 when it was 1100. Maybe it was an honest mistake. I am sure glad you are doing better though. As I said earlier, I think some prayers are beginning to be answered for some of us here. I STILL HAVE A PROBLEM staying in Plan A. With the slight changes I'm seeing I just have to try extra hard, so I know exactly what you mean.

Hi Medic,
She might still be resisting a little bit. At least she didn't just out right refuse to go. She made an excuse. I think she'll go.

I just don't know about me. It's ever so hard to stay in Plan A. We never know if our actions are helping us or enabling them.

I just have to get to May 16th. Then that's decision time for me. Someone told me put a time limit on your plans, so that's mine. In the MEANTIME.... plan A my butt off. Sometimes I think I'm winning, sometimes... not quite sure.

I started another post under withdrawal, because I'm starting to wonder if my WH is actually in withdrawal from ME as opposed to OW.