How Do I Get Back In The House? - Marriage Builders® Forums

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My original post is over under the topic "Separate and Desparate".We've been separated for about 1 month now. I'm using Plan A from a distance. I am paying all the bills as she looks for work; hence I am still trying to meet some EN. My counselr says this is going to take 6 months before I can move back in. I am terrified that she is going to find an OP in that amount of time. She may have already. I don't know. I only know I have no intetion of dating or anything other than trying to bring my W back out of Withdrawal.I feel that I cannot move back in until she asks me to. She is currently in complete withdrawal. I'm using all of Harley's methods. There's been no sign of a crack in her armpor yet, and I know it takes time. However, my insides are turning because I have a fear that I am going to lose her unless I can get back under the same roof and let her see my LB-free behavior from day-to-day. How do I get back in?

I don't mean to sound rude....but I think if it's YOU who didn't want the separation in the first place, you should not have moved out....she should have.So, in light of that, I think you should move back in the house immediately and explain that to her....even if that means living in a separate bedroom. Tell her you DON'T want the marriage to end, that you DON'T want to loose her (or the kids or the house) and try with all your might to not LB. That's just my own opinion. I can't find your other post, so I don't really know the full story, but why did you move out to begin with? Part of Harley's method is to let the other spouse feel the full effects of what their behaviour brings...if she needs space....if she doesn't want to be married....whatever....SHE needs to feel the full effects of what that means. I don't think you should give her the best of both worlds, or something like you are worried about might happen.Again, that's just my opinion. I'm preaching to the choir hear, because when it's you in the midst of all the emotions, it's hard sometimes to see the most simple and logical things...believe me, I know.Aloha, Mrs.O

I left because during our fights I asked her if she wanted a divorce and she said yes. Maybe I made a mistake, but now I don't think she would take kindly to my moving back in. I believe she will feel threatened by this, no matter what I say.I don't want to lose my wife. As for my original post, here it is below:"My wife and I have separated. There have been so many severe problems that it brought us to this. Between my depression/reclusiveness/problems with anger and her boredom at home and her bar hopping every night, we have become strangers. Now, I trust her completely and I don't think she has ever messed around. We just don't have anything in common anymore.She is at the point now where she has said things to me like:1) I don't feel anything 2) I love you, but not the way you want me to. 3) You should get on with your life and see other people. 4) You make me nervous. 5) I can't go through another one of your misery episodes.My problems have probably destroyed our marriage. She doesn't feel the same about me after all the crap she has had to put up with.We are now separated. I am renting out a spare bedroom from a friend while she still lives at home. She is not working right now, and I am paying all the bills. It's been a month now since I gave her space.For my depression, I've gone to get treatment and continue to do so on a regular basis. I'm doing this for myself, not for our marriage. On the other hand, my wife is not seeking work and just bar hops every night with her friends. She is not getting any counselling, but only drinks more and more as each day goes by. I know she is going through a lot. Her sister died of cancer a year ago and her parents have moved out of the state. She must feel really alone.I scared that I may have lost her. I know that she needs time and space apart from me, but she needs help. It pains me because I love her so much and do not want a divorce. I just want us to come back together. She is my queen, my angel. For me, there can never be another.I'm hoping my changes will inspire her to get some help, but she won't reach out to anyone. I want our marriage to come back together so much, but she doesn't want me in the same house with her.This thing could take months. Unfortunately, my salary is not enough to keep paying all the bills. The money is going to run out in about a month and checks will start bouncing unless payments get delayed. At this rate, she would have to return to some kind of work or we will have to sell the house.I always talk to her in a soft voice and never argue, no matter what insult she hurls at me. I send her flowers on a regular basis along with cards and letters, all to no avail. I can't get any response from her.How long is thing going to take? She built up an emotional wall around her, but she has not filed any divorce papers. Everything is in limbo. I used to cry all the time after the breakup. I still do, but not as often. The pain is still there, and I love her so much. Unfortunately, the past problems keep getting in the way because she thinks I'm doomed to repeat them. I know this is not the case. I am willing to wait and let her see the changes, but every day we are living apart feels like we are moving further and further away from ever getting back together. God, Please help me."

Yes, I finally found your original posts too. However, I still stick with my first answer. You also posed the question....how do I get her out of the withdrawal phase? I guess in my opinion, you are supporting her withdrawal by withdrawing yourself! Space? She wants space so she doesn't have to face the natural consequences of her withdrawal (drinking, etc). I'm sure you are right that she won't look kindly on it...but I bet she won't be in withdrawal anymore. And I think you should do what you believe is best...for you, for the kids, but esp. for her. Do you think it's good for her to be all alone, in withdrawal, drinking, etc.? You sure don't sound like it. It's classic for an alcoholic (which I'm not necessarily saying she is) to ask to be left alone. That way they don't have to face what their drinking behaviour is doing to them and their world.And it's classic for a co-dependant (which I'm not necessarily saying you are) to give them their way so they can self-destruct. It's what you've learned with her....it's what she's learned with you.Somewhere, the pattern needs to change. My opinion still stands. I think you should move back in based on the following:1) You love her and want to do anything that's needed to keep the marriage.2) You are not going to just sit by and do nothing about the problems between the two of you. 3) It's too expensive to run two households.I think if you humbly present these reasons to her, in love, and firmly move back in, then you would be doing the right thing.When a person we love wants to do something that's bad for them, we don't just let them do it in the name of "giving them their own space." No, we LOVE them and behave with them in a way that is for their best interest....even if it MAY upset the situation. Don't hide the truth from her. Don't let her just withdraw. Be there and offer to help her, communicate that you are getting help.I don't know if this is the right course of action, but looking back on my situation, I wish I would have acted more aggressively to stop the marriage from just dwindling away. I look back now and wonder....why didn't I DO SOMETHING at the first sign of trouble? I don't really have an answer....I didn't realize it was that bad....I didn't have this site....whatever. Well, you are lucky....you seem to be very aware of the situation....I urge you to act. If your wife was drowning, would you just sit back and "give her her space?" No...you'ld jump in headfirst, even if she struggled....it would be better than drowning.Aloha, Mrs.O

I'll talk to her and she if she agrees to my moving back in during the next few weeks. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks for your help. It's great just knowing there are other people out there who have dealt with these types of problems before. Counselors confuse the hell out of me. One tells me to move back in, another tells me to stay away, while yet another tells me the marriage is over and I should move on. Sharing stories like this makes better sense for me.

Yes, I agree.....not all counselors are in the same boat. If it's only been a month, and a counselor is saying it's over, move on....that's a bad counselor. You may have to try a coupla counselors to get a good one. May I also suggest that you get on an anti-depressant, if you are not already. It will be very helpful to you.I read some of the responses in your other posts....I have to agree with NSR. Don't ASK her if you can move back in....TELL her, lovingly, firmly....when you will be moving back in and WHY. If you ask her, of course she's not going to agree....she doesn't want to get out of withdrawal!!YOU are paying the bills for the house, it's your house, YOU don't want the marriage to end, YOU deserve to live there.It is NOT A LOVE BUSTER to do this!!Don't let your marriage go with a whimper. FIGHT, man, FIGHT for it! Aloha, Mrs.OPS. Just fyi....It really helps to NOT post a topic in so many different areas....seeing all the responses together and us seeing other people's responses really helps.

Hi Warewolf, O's comments on co-dependency ring very true. I would like to ask you to get a book called "Love is a Choice". It's in the addiction section at the bookstore. I am just finishing reading it. Read it and study it. You have some hard work ahead of you but if you want this relationship to STAY together after you reunite, you need this book. Also, get a counselor who has a clue about the right things! Why do most states give you a year to get divorced? So you have time to work out things, both for the relationship and for yourself. I hope it works out for you. You have a lot of opportunity as long as you can communicate with her. God be with you both. Ted

Thanks Ted...I'll look for that book.Mrs. O, I told my W Sunday that I would be moving in Wednesday. Her response was neither agreement nor objection. She basically hurried to end the conversation.On a separate subject, without my asking, a friend informed me that he saw my W with another man this past Saturday hanging out together in a bar. Apparently, it was the same guy that I've always suspected she might be seeing. After I move back in, I'll have to adrress this somehow. I could ask her outright about an affair, but I know the immediate response will be NO. Any ideas on how to approach this subject of infidelity? I could ask her to stop seeing this other person, but I don't know if I can trust her to do what she says. I'm scared of being used.

Here's a link where I was trying to tell someone to get out, and it turned out I was wrong ... for peculiar reasons ... but a lot of what I wrote about getting out or not getting out may be applicable to your situtuation, particularly the stuff about being back in for the right (i.e. non-selfish) reasons: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/003354.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/003354.html</A> So the point is, you need to do a certain amount of credible explaining why you just showed back up. It can be done, and explained well, and work ... but if you can't sell her the idea that it's for all the right reasons, your road becomes a lot more difficult.

Dear Warewolf,That's an interesting response on your W's part....interesting because she didn't get all bent about it. Makes me wonder what she's thinking....I agree that the reasons you move back in should be credible...and your most certainly are. From what I gather, you want your marriage to succeed above all else. Just the fact that you moved out to give her space shows, to me at least, that you weren't being selfish, but putting her first. However, allowing her to stew in her own demise (drinking, withdrawal, etc.) isn't necessarily the best thing for her, as I discussed before. To me, you moving back in isn't for you...it's for you and her....the relationship, which at this point, needs to be put as the first priority.I don't have alot of advice for you, but this:*Again, reinforce your love for her and your desire to do whatever needs to be done to save the marriage.*Be honest with her....tell her what your friend said. Ask her what that was about.*DRAG HER, BEG HER, TAKE HER to counseling. Do WHATEVER it takes to address the marriage. You're not dying....she's not dying....it's the relationship that is dying. It needs emergency attention.*Show her (by your words and actions) what you really have learned from this site on how to be a husband. Don't allow yourself to fall back into the same old patterns between you and her. Show her that you are working individually on you (by counseling, etc.) and to help make the marriage better. This is your big chance....but don't get all discouraged if you blow it or if it doesn't seem to make any difference....just keep on keeping on.*Sit down and have a heart-to-heart, all-on-the-table, totally-honest discussion with her. Let her know the desire of your heart for the marriage. Ask her to give it one more chance....6-months.....no bar hopping, going to counseling, no other men, etc. Get a plan.I don't know why, but I get a sense from your posts that your are scared of her or of her reactions. I don't really know where that comes from. I am also concerned about her response to your original post..."you make me nervous." Why does she feel that you make her nervous?That's about all I can say for now. You guys need to get into counseling....please try to make that happen.Aloha, Mrs.O

Mrs O:Thanks for the thorough responses. I'll let you know how it goes. I have done of this for my own selfish reasons. It has all been an huge effort to reconcile with my W, depsite everyone telling to move on and forget her.I make my W nervous because of my past problems with depression and angry outbursts. Once a few months ago, I thought she was having an affair when I caught her on the phone with another guy. It put me in a huge rage. I saw flashbacks of the incident with my first wife (she was sleeping with my best friend). I did a lot of yelling, busted the phone, and threw things. In that incident, it turned out she was physically innocent, but emotionally guuitly. Now, if she lies to me about an affair, one reason could be that she fears my reaction will be like before. Also, the affair is apparently with the same guy that she was suspected of seeing before. The problem is expanded by the fact that he is a part of our circle of friends.That type of emotional response will not be drawn from me. As I've told her so many times, I am seeking help. I have God back in my life. I am in church every Sunday. I did 2 weeks of outpatient psychotherapy last month. I am individually meeting a counselor once a week, and a psychiatrist once a month. I am taking my antidepressant medication on a regular basis. I've quit drinking and going to bars. I am doing all these things because I want to better myself. I know I will be happy no matter what relationship path God chooses for me. The difficult part now is that, for this marriage to work, she has got to change as well. That, however, remains to be seen. I know she is withdrawn and I am willing to wait that out. If she won't eventually meet me halfway, then I will have to be prepared to let go and get on with my life. I've really learned a lot from this site. In the future, after my life is back together, I intend to stay with this site and perhaps help others the way you have helped me.

Sorry for the typos in the last post. In the 3rd sentence, I meant to say "I have done none of this for my own selfish reasons". I should start proofing my notes!

Dear Warewolf,I'm so happy you have your relationship with God again! That is the best starting place for any situation.And I am also proud of you for all the strides you've made in bettering yourself....becoming a better you and bringing a better you to the relationship.Just be aware that when you do move back in on Wednesday, there are gonna be times when you guys butt heads. It definately will get her out of withdrawal, but not necessarily in a good way! Keep your head about you. You don't have to be perfect, just humble. Your anger is going to want to rear it's ugly head again. I wish you the very best. Please do keep us informed. My only real advice is still do anything you can to get her into counseling with you. There's gotta be a way it can be done. Aloha, Mrs.O

Well, today is the day I move back into the house. I want to tell you that something weird happened last night. W called me last night at around 1:00 am. I could tell she had been drinking by the way she spoke.She bashed me in every way possible. She blamed me for being in this "pit" as she called it. She questioned my whole sincerity about getting God back in my life. She mentioned how many times she tried to get me to go to church in the past and I wouldn't. She eventually quit going to church herself. She said she was glad I was so happy while she is so miserable. She told me she hates me. She wanted to know why I didn't change a year ago when she needed me.This all really hurt, but I never argued. I continuously apologized, told her I love her so much, said she was free to leave the marriage if she wanted, that I was getting myself together for myself and not for anyone else, that I wanted to make this marriage work, that I wasn't dwelling on mypast mistakes but I had learned from them.Her response was to tell me not to try and give her one of my "presentations" or speeches. I did ask her if she had been or currently involved with anyone else. She said "NO, BUT I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT". She needs to be close to someone, and there was someone around that she had made an emotional connection to. That really hurt, but I kept my composure.Later, at 2 a.m., I get another phone call. She tells me she is sorry for being so mean. I told her there was no need to apologize and that I deserved everything she said for my past mistakes. I'm going to call her before I go over to the house today.My evaluation of last night's discussion was that she was doing several things:1) coming ever so slightly out of withdrawal and into conflict mode with me 2) venting all her pent up frustrations 3) testing me to see if I could be provoked into another angry outburstWhat is your take on this?

Ditto. Now -- no defensiveness and no stonewalling. Her criticism and contempt are bad, but stay engaged, and if you start to "flood" emotionallly (95+ bpm heart rate) ask her for a half hour break. You might set that ground rule ahead of time. You two also need to pay a lot more attention to alcohol's influence on your lives.

Sisyphus...I agree with what you said about alcohol. Once I am back in the house in Plan A mode, she is still going to want to go out barhopping. I can foresee where she asks me if I want to go with her. In the early stages of this, I may have to say Yes and tag along so that I don't appear to be selfishly ignoring her. I won't be drinking, but it will be hard to put on a happy face when I am not in a place I want to be in. I'll do my best anyway to please her.Eventually, I'm going to try to get her into counseling with me or by herself in order to get her to face her addictions.

Next question...While I am in Plan A mode, what do I do about this OP that W has made an emotional connection with? It's likely to be someone I know and It's likely to be someone at one of the local bars she frequents. If I do go into the bar, I'm scared I'll be less concerned with meeting her needs and more concerned about finding out who this OP (man or woman) could be so that I can undermine their future influence. I'd be a fool to think that this OP is not going to pursue my W or vice versa during the near future. HELP!!

Good job, Warewolf!I think you're right, your wife is coming out of withdrawal. However, stay in the humble, loving, Plan A mode....she's now in conflict stage and will hurl all sorts of crap at you. My first thought/suggestion for you is maybe you need to call Dr. Harley's counseling center for some immediate advice. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html</A> It's a bit pricey, but it really is worth it...and I think it would be especially helpful right now for you. It's something like $85 for an hour, but I higly recommend it for you.Have you read the book "Surviving An Affair?" If not, try to get ahold of that book ASAP and read it. It seems like there was an example of a couple in that book that sounds similar to you.Also, you may want to consider finding out about an intervention for your wife. Go to... <A HREF="http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org" TARGET=_blank>www.alcoholics-anonymous.org</A> ...and look at that info. Also, try to find a group in your area. Maybe she'll go if you suggest it....won't hurt.Again, keeping a humble, loving attitude and be honest and open with her. Plan A is hard! But I think it's still the best option for you at this time.Aloha, Mrs.OPS If you do talk with Dr. Harley, ask him very specific questions for a course of action for you, given your specific circumstances. I think that would really help you.One Last Thought: Don't be so "willing" to let your wife out of the marriage. While you can't stop her, you don't necessarily have to "offer" that choice to her....she's knows she can get out if she wants to. To be honest, it doesn't sound to me like she wants to. Sounds like she is angry about stuff (past stuff) and probably would actually want to stay married if that stuff could be addressed, even tho she makes it sound like it's too late (i.e. "where were you last year?" remark). Assure her that it's not too late. Okay...now this REALLY is the last thought: Be VERY AWARE of your actions, as opposed to your words. She is keying in on your "presentations" and needs/wants to see if they are real. I think this is vital for you....like someone else suggested, take a break if the tension gets too high. That's it....good luck and please keep us posted. I'm happy to see you are going thru with the move back in. That takes alot of courage, esp. when she isn't exactly welcoming it.

Hurling crap at me is right! I moved back in yesterday, and let me tell you it was a roller coaster ride! I'll walk you through the events.When I arrived, her 13 year old son smiled and hugged me. I'm betting she did not like that. I asked her if I could hug her and she obliged, although it felt one-sided. Regardless, I wanted to start off right by showing her some affection (#1 EN for her). There was almost no conversation between us as I moved my clothes and stuff back into my closet. She stayed talking on the phone mostly with other people that were calling her.About 30 minutes after I arrived, she jumps in the 4-Runner and leaves without saying a word. She didn't return for about 8 hours. I believe she was at the local bar the entire time. While she was gone, her son made some comments about how he wished Mom wouldn't go to the bar every night. He also said she made some comments the day before about finding another place for the both of them to live. He asked me if he could come over every now and then. While she was gone, I also cleaned up a bit around the house...especially the bedroom. When she finally returned (12:40 am), she was UPSET. I was sleeping on the couch when she came in. She immediately started yelling at me because someone at the bar had told her that I had said we split because she was smoking too much pot. I told her that was not true. I never yelled during her tirade, and I constantly spoke reassuring statements. Again, she made comments like "Where were you when I needed you a year ago?", "Those other people want what you had.", "You are too late..I am a cold-hearted *****."She stormed into the bedroom, and I heard her surprise when she saw I had cleaned the bedroom. As she lay on the bed in her clothes on the verge of crying over everything, I came in, told her I love her, and I only want her to be happy. I started massaging her feet and then her shoulders. She didn't resist.We sat there a while as I did this as she played with one of our 5 cats that was on the bed with us. She said she was hungry, so I went to the kitchen and brought her some ham, cheese, and crackers, and a glass of Tab (her favorite!). She ate them up quickly. As she climbed under the covers with her clothes still on, I ran my fingers through her hair, told her goodnight, and that I loved her.I went to bed on the couch after I told her I would not try to sleep in the bed with her unless she invited me. To me, that would be a LB right now. This morning, I rose and dressed to go to work. Before I left, I went in the bedroom, kissed her on the cheek, softly ran my fingers over her back (shae had undressed after I left the bedroom the night before). I told her I would call her later and that I loved her. I'm feeling better now, but the entire drive to the office found me with the feeling of a big hole in my chest. My thoughts are still of who she may be seeing, but it wouldn't do any good if I knew who it was. A person i nher state would just deny everything and withdraw even more. Hence, I am going to ignore that issue and focus on courting her back into our marriage. I realize this will take time. I realize I am going to get a lot of rejection and anger thrown at me. I am ready to take it because I am willing to humble myself as much as needed to make her reach out to me for help. I still don't know what to do about her drinking, though. If I approach her on the subject, I know she will get furious with me. That one is going to require some more thought.I will schedule to talk to Harley. I also have an appointment today with my own counselor. Furthermore, I put all these problems in God's hands. He will decide my life's path. Pray for us.As someone said, "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."

That was Nietzsche. He also said: "From Old Florentine Novels; also--from life: "Buona femmina e mala femmina vuol bastone." (Good and bad women want a stick.)Whatever he meant, the quote is real but I'm just kidding, OK?

Crisis Alert!!I talked to my W today via phone at my office. In part of the conversation, she told me that her girl-friend Tamara is going to spend the night at our house since she has to work in the morning at the local bar. This Tamara is one of W's several single girlfiends that barhops with her. Tamara is also a bartender/waittress at the local bar where W spends so much time. This bar is a real hole-in-the-wall. There are some serious Forrest Gumps in there. Tamara just turned 21 (W is 30), is very unattractive (trust me on this one), and does not have much decency or morals. I know this because I have been to that bar many times with my W (I compromised) and have seen Tamara "in action".What I'm concerned about is the statement my W made on the phone. She said that since I am sleeping on the couch, Tamara can sleep in the bed with her since there is no other place. I wanted to say "NO WAY!", but I bit my lip and held it in. To me, this is unacceptable. Barhopping with these "trashy" women is one thing, but I cannot tolerate them being brought into my house and sleeping in my bed. I'm not saying there is anything more than friendship between my W and Tamara. I doubt it, but anything is possible.Most likely, I am going to compromise on this. I'll agree to let her friend stay over, but she will have to sleep on the couch. I will either sleep in the bed with W or go sleep in bed with my 13-year-old stepson. Either way, I'm pretty sure this is going to anger my W, which is a major LB. But I've got to draw the line somewhere, even though this is only going to take my W back towards withdrawal.Need advice on this one in a hurry!!

Well, this is nothing if not a challenge to you ... she's trying to find out: will you LB, or withdraw, or do something else that doesn't strike her just right. Since her taker is way at the forefront, why don't you find a way to let it happen just the way she wants it, unless you have some indication that lesbianism is in the picture. W may be worried that you are going to overstep your bounds in some way, and may feel the need for her friend to sleep there for security. I'd say that while you are Plan A'ing, you can expect numerous strategies designed to drive you nuts and get her way ... which I think is you out. So, sit back and let time answer the question: Why is Tamara sleeping there?

Warewolf...I'm getting to like you more and more! I'm glad you kept your head during the storm! But, as you know, more crap to come.....About tonight (which may be now as our time zones are probably so different)....DON'T let this other gal goad you! She's gonna try and they'll both try to "gang up" on you, most likely. I agree....let Tamara sleep on the couch. You should offer to sleep with son or on the floor in son's room....don't sleep with wife until you are both ready.I'm glad you're seeing a counselor and gonna see Dr. Harley....both will help. Another thing, your wife keeps saying "where were you a year ago?" and that leads me to think that SHE thinks it's too late. Subtley, and lovinging, and humbly, remind her that it's not too late and that a year ago you were messed up....but let's concentrate on now. Now is all we really have.I also like your idea of courting her back into the marriage....lots of hard work, but a great thing to do. Remember.....actions speak louder than words to her.Good luck and God bless you....keep us up to date. Aloha, Mrs. O

My recommendation: quietly and firmly state that you are going to sleep on the floor in your stepson's room. And without making any fuss about it, without waiting to be asked, you can be hospitable and make up the couch for your wife's guest.

So WHAT happened last night? Inquiring minds do want to know?!Mrs. O - thanks for your great insights! I've been tracking with this process and the advice you're giving is helpful for me also. I do need to know though where can I get information on "a plan" as you state on the first page?Gotta run! ------------------ Doing what you like is freedom... Liking what you do is happiness

Hey Warewolf.....How's it going? Inquiring minds want to know!!OvrCs: When I say "get a plan" I guess I'm referring to you deciding in your own mind what you want and what you will do to get it....for you, for the relationship....and then sticking to it. Read all of Dr. Harley's stuff and use Plan A or Plan B as your basis as well as not love busting, etc. Other things like taking care of yourself...i.e. anti-depressants, counseling, focussing on God....can all be part of your plan. Deciding how you will respond to your spouse will be part of the plan. As much as you can keep yourself "centered" would be, in my opinion, the key to your "plan." Are you gonna fly off the handle everytime your spouse throws the crap you way? If not, then make that part of your plan. Try to think ahead and anticipate all the crap that ehey will try to pull. Then anticipate your response. This isn't as easy as it sounds, but it sure helps in getting thru each day.....instead of just reacting to everything thru your emotions. When you are in the middle of all this (and even down the road a ways as I am), it's all to easy to just react emotionally to what happens.....it seems that all you are is just one big emotion. So the "plan" would be your own individual commitment to handle things in a more non-emotional way, if possible. As well, part of the plan is to accept things you cannot change or have no control over. It's also being aware that you may not get what you want. My H still doesn't want to be a part of my life or come home. But it doesn't mean you fall apart if that happens. The plan is really about focusing on God and allowing Him to give you the tools (all the things I've mentioned) to take each days situations as they come. I don't know if that helps, but I do know that while I was in Plan A, my H did notice a change in me. And now that I'm in Plan B, I don't go thru that emotional rollercoaster quiet as often....I feel much more centered with God, EVEN THO my H is still out and about with the OW. It's a way of coping that isn't so dependant on the situation or on your emotions. Good luck.Aloha, Mrs.O

Well, here's how it went down. I suggested to W that her friend sleep on the couch and I would sleep in son's room. This was unacceptable to her. The friend did not come over but another one of her girlfriends did. Same problem, but different person. We disagreed on the same subject. After W's ranting and raving, friend slept on couch and I slept in son's room. During the ranting and raving though, I suggested that if her lifestyle was going to be like this, then she should probably move out. She said give her until April 1st. I'm sorry folks, but I cannot sacrifice my morals by having her sleazy friends come into my home. I recently found out she had a party at the house while I was moved out. A couple that stayed over that night had sex on my couch! I am a Christian man, and I cannot have such people hanging around my step son in my home like this. I don't care if it is a LB to my W. Furthermore, I believe she is now involved with another guy from the local bar. This infuriates me because she doesn't have the decency to move out before she has an affair.I am trying so hard. Whenever I am around her, I do everything I can to please her. Even so, I feel I am being used by my W. How can you love someone that doesn't love you? My guess is that she is going to move out eventually but not seek a divorce. This is so she can keep her options open. She knows I love her and would take her back if she asked. This is going way beyond Plan A, as I see plan B coming around the corner.I am angry, I am hurt, and I am still in love with this woman. God is with me through all this. I know I'll be happy one day. It is just the pain is so hard. I could really use a pep talk right now from someone.

Thanks for the update, warewolf. Sorry things are tuff right now. I don't know if this will be a pep talk or not, but I think you did some things right.You were right in sleeping in son's room. I don't really understand why your wife was so mad about the friend sleeping on couch and you sleeping in sons's room? Any insight?I also think you were right to tell her that having un-moraled people over and around your son is wrong and that you won't put up with it. Almost anything you will say at this point sounds like it's gonna be a LB for her....she's just at that stage.I think if/when you talk about her moving out, always humbly remind her that while you can't stop her from doing that, you would rather have her stay and work on the relationship. You're right....she probably will move out and not seek a divorce. You will have two choices: either keeping on Plan A and hope she wants to come back; or Plan B. Have you been able to talk to Dr. Harley? I'm not sure what he'd have to say, but my gut thinks that when/if she moves out, that might be a good time to move to Plan B....and that would include no financial help, etc. She may just have to see and live with the consequences of her actions. Also, I know it will be hard for you if she moves out to keep that hope and love there (Plan A)....you've already expressed how hard it was to love her and show her you love her while you were living away. So maybe Plan B could be of help to you as well.I would try to talk to Dr. Harley is you can. Also, if you could in any way try to get her to a counselor with you before she moves out....Can you just ask her to do just that one thing for you? Or better yet, talk to Dr. Harley by phone once. My H did that once when I asked him to. Keep us posted. Aloha, Mrs.O

Thanks...I'm trying to schedule a meeting with Dr. Harley ASAP. I am on a business trip right now, so it is hard to get the timimg right. God only knows what may be going on back home. I talked to wife this afternoon (Monday). It was casual conversation that I initiated. She was getting ready to meet her friends out tonight. Big surprise there. I always tell her I love her before I hang up the phone. All I get in return is an OK from her. No surprise there either.I was at home the other day and I broke down crying. She happened to walk in the door at that same moment. She I felt I had lost the best thing in my life - my wife. I told her how much I cared for her. She didn't get emotional, and she only said (once again) "Why couldn't you love me like that 2 years ago?" She really feels like it's over, regardless of how many times I assure her it is not too late.There is definitely an OP in the picture. There is a guy I know at the local bar that she is spending time with. He's pursuing her and she is not resisting. It's like a contest amongst all the guys there to see who can get in my W's pants first. They all want what I had. I tell you, putting my needs aside and trying to attend to hers is wrecking my self-esteem. A person can only go through Plan A for so long before total exhaustion sets in. I'm going to check with Harley, but I am sure Plan B is my only other alternative with an OP in the picture. Sitting in this hotel room alone, thoughts are racing through my mind of this OP and my W together socializing with my friends. He has taken my place and it is like I never existed. Except that the bills get mysteriously paid.I guess it would be easier if I had more friends of my caliber to spend time around. There aren't many now that most have chosen her over me. Basically, all I have is God, my Mother, my counselor, and you folks. That's it.I have decided not to call my W at all duringthe rest of this trip. I am going to turn off my cell phone and try to get some sleep tonight. If she calls me during this trip, I am not going to answer. Moving back into my home was a good move, but it was somthing I did for me. I had to get control over my home again. However, I am not living with my W. Instead, it feels like I have a roommate. The W I married is dead and some stranger has taken her place. So begins my mourning process.I'll try to post happier news, but tonight finds me in a very somber mood. I hope I am able someday to help other people on this site after I have survived this ordeal.

Something weird happened today. I had decided to not call my W at all during the rest of my business trip. Today, she calls me to let me know she had to work today from 3pm-11pm. Why did she do this? Furthermore, as we ended the conversation, I told her "I love you." She immediately responded "I love you too...OH!" Her exclamation was one as if she let those words accidentally slip out due to habit.I'm not sure if it was a feeling that she momentarily let resurface. Perhaps she did this on purpose to keep me hanging on so that she still has all her options. Comments??

I agree with Mrs.O's assessment and advice, but I'm a bit worried about some details she may not have taken into account. First, do I remember correctly that your son is really your stepson? This could complicate matters, since you may not have any legal standing to protect him. And second, having your wife leave to face the consequences of her actions may not be as easy as all that. My wife had no trouble using the courts to extort money from me, and the only consequences she has had to face are those stemming from her own conscience.I think the fact that your wife called you for no real reason is an encouraging sign. But I'm inclined to assume that the "I love you" was just an automatic reaction.

Thank you, GnomeDePlume....and I agree with you too....it wouldn't be all that easy to let her go or may not even be the best thing, but not sure he could stop it. I guess what I was trying to say was that IF she went, that might be a good time for Plan B...no contact, no financial assistance, etc. That doesn't mean she'll struggle and realize what she's doing...she may not. But I really think he should talk to Dr. Harley first....don't take it on my word!Also, I can see your point about his step-son. She may want to and have the right to take him with her. Not sure that would be all that great...or what rights warewolf would have at all as far as that goes....something that he should check into, I think.I tend to agree, warewolf, that the "i love you" may have been accidental...however, she probably still does, whether she wants to admit it or not. But the fact that she called....well, I don't know her, so if you think it's kinda weird given her current behaviour and feelings, then maybe there is a little "hope" hanging around in her heart.I wish for you the best. I'm glad you made it back home at least. Keep us posted.Aloha, Mrs.O

I'm not back home yet. I'm still on the business trip and I'm using my laptop to reach you folks. While I'm not the one giving any advice here, I do hope someone out there is learning from my problems and your advice.If my W leaves, my stepson will likely go with her. I would offer to keep him at my home for his short-term benefits, but she cannot bear to live without him. My own son lives with his Mom, and I see him every other weekend.The "I love you" was said out of habit. I don't believe it was real, not yet anyway.Dr. Harley has recommended the following: 1) W is stepping back and forth between withdrawal and conflict. 2) I should run the Plan A gambit for another 4-6 months, if I can. Hopefully, the connection with the OP will not blossom into a full blown affair if I start now. 3) Avoid all future mention of relationships and marital problems. Let her lead on these issues. 4) If the affair blossoms or no progress is made in the allotted time, then ask W to leave ASAP. Plan B comes into play. Remain in a loving, gentle manner as she leaves so that her last memories of me are positive ones. This will leave the most impression on her during the separation and cause doubts for her. 5) Have no contact with W during Plan B. Continue to focus on bettering myself. If W returns, then go back to Plan A until she reaches intimacy. If W does not return, then file divorce after another 6 months and look on all this as a positive change in my life which will enhance my next relationship. Yes...there is someone out there that will love me as much as I need them too.These are easy words to say, but very hard to accomplish. Most people cannot Plan A for very long before their own emotional needs require some attention to keep despair from taking over.I guess I will try to Plan A with her until the end of June. If there are no changes by then, she is going to be let go. By then, this affair and her true desires will show themselves. By then, I will know if this woman wants me for a husband.To me, it will be her loss. As a brown-eyed, brown haired, built, half-greek, 6'1", 220lb, 90K/yr salaried professional, I will find someone that will love me for who I am. I know because I deserve better treatment than what I am getting from my W, despite all my past sins.

Hi Warewolf,I'm so glad you got to talk to Dr. Harley. It sounds like you have a good plan. And you're right, it isn't as easy as it sounds....it's gonna be hard. Keep coming back here when you need to vent or just talk.Plan A isn't easy....in fact it's hard. But it will give you the knowledge that you have done everything possible to save your marriage. I don't know how good a job I did at Plan A, but I know it has helped me in all the relationships in my life. If followed closely, it really does help you become a better person.Take care and keep us posted. Aloha, Mrs.O

That's it...I'm done. I am officially in withdrawal. I can take no more of W's galavanting around with this OP until 4:00a.m. after turning me (her own husband) down for a dinner date on the same night.I have given all, and I don't have anything left to give. I am exhausted. After she got home from her night on the town, I put my foot down. I told her this lifestyle was unacceptable and that I wanted her to move out of my house, out of my life, and to just go away.After 2 hours of arguing she finally agreed before passing out on the couch. This woman has bottomed out, and she is trying to pull me down with her. I cannot allow myself to fall apart like that or else my son will suffer. He is going through a lot right now, and he needs me.Disagree with my decision all you want but it is done and so are my posts on this site. I am so pissed off right now. You were all helpful, but it's gotten to a point where I feel I am being used by my STBXW. I even discovered that she has her own P.O. box. What in the world could that be for???? I cannot love someone that refuses to love me. The woman I married is dead and gone. I do not know who this person is. Let that other guy support her from now on. She is way too high maintainence for me. The alcohol, the trashy friends, the cigarettes, the filthy house, the embarrassment of my wife in public with another man, the constant rejection....it is too much for me. I have to focus on my needs in order to survive...to hell with her needs. Let someone else be her dog....I am cutting the leash.

Hi Warewolf,I just was curious with what is happdening in your situation. I know you left it that you were cutting the leash....did you? So now what has happened? Please come back and keep us posted. Aloha, Mrs.O

I am still in the process of cutting the leash. I am in the house, but so is she. I've asked her to move out, but she refuses to go. She is going out bar hopping until 2 a.m. and can then come home to a nice bed and not have not pay any rent. Can you blame her? Even so, she is driving me nuts with her blatant rejection of me and inability to cope with her own responsibilities.She makes lawyer appointments, but then cancels them. She asks for a divorce, but then says it may be a bad idea. She wants to have sex, but she won't say she loves me. She is not being wish-washy, she's using me as a safety net for her own selfish reasons. I am paying the house note and utilities myself. I do not pay her car note or credit card bills, and she is neglecting those as well. By the way, she is working on a regular basis now, so she has the money. She tells all her friends she is just saving up enough money to move out. She tells everyone I am psycho, so my reputation is shot.I am in the process of looking for a lawyer to deter,mine my options. If she won't move out, then I'll have to take some kind of action. I continue to be nice to her with back rubs, bringing her coffee in the morning, washing her vehicle, taking her son to school, telling her I love her,washing some of her clothes, buying groceries, etc...Hence, I am still in Plan A mode. This is mostly for improving myself, and it also feels like the Christian thing to do. However, I am so ready for Plan B if she continues to behave this way, and with a possible OP in the picture. Besides, if her final memories of me are all good, she'll always doubt if she made the right decision in leaving this marriage.

Thanks for letting us know. You are probably right about her using you for a safety net. I think talking to a lawyer is a good idea as well as keeping in Plan A (don't sleep with her...you don't know where she's been). Sorry for what is happening...I know exactly how it feels to be living so very closely with someone who is acting like that.....and it's pure h*ll. While I didn't want him to, it was actually a relief in some ways when my H did move out. But then I was left WONDERING all the time what he was doing....couldn't win either way!Maybe an ultimatum is in order soon.....either work on the marriage (including not nighttime bar hopping) or move out. Talk to your lawyer and maybe even Steve Harley again.Wow, that's a tuff spot..Aloha, Mrs.O

Well, I filed a divorce petiton yesterday. She'll get served with the papers soon enough. I'm under Louisiana law which requires a 6 month separation untuil divorce can be granted. This separation requires no living under the same roof. Since we are both still in the house, the divorce petiton will be stillborn until one of us moves out. Then, the clock starts ticking.I did this even though I want to save my marriage. She has backed me into a corner, while she has it made in the shade. This tells her I am serious: Either seek help to save yourself and this marriage or get out of the house. I am going to waut a couple of months until her son is out of school for the summer. He will then go visit his Dad for awhile. During that time, I am going to ask her to seek another residence while I stay and maintain the house.I had to do this because her lifestyle was starting to drag me back down into the pit of depression. I kept in Plan A mode for as long as I could until I became too drained from it all. If divorce comes, then let it come. I will be happy no matter what happend. If this brings her back into reality, then that's great. I want my marriage to work, but it can only happen if the both of us want it.

Hi Warewolf,Yes, you can't do it alone. I think the plan of asking her to start looking for another place to live SOON so that she can move out while her son is away is good. Give her that deadline.So sorry it's come to this, but many of us here can relate. Is the house in both of your names or just yours? If it's just yours, you may have to resort to changing the locks and/or getting a restraining order once the deadline comes, if she doesn't move by then. When you file for divorce and 6 months of separation are needed, how is that enforced? Does the judge or lawyer tell one of the partners to move out? Just wondering.Take care and, yes, I am finally starting to think that maybe someday I will be okay too.Aloha, Mrs.O

Wait til she goes to the bar, and change the locks.

I compliment you for reading the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com</A> as I also in my marriage have found it tremendously helpful in every caseI would recommend you look at the part where Dr Harley talks about conversation and 15 hours a weekIf you are able to sit and converse with her or on the telephoneYou are very brave at trying to fix your marriageThere is an on-line radio recording you can also log into on the site and you will find a lot of help therePlease write to me and I can put you in touch with a few cousellor friends of mine on the net who will support you furtherWe will not critisize you but uplift and encourage youkidnpuppetshow@yahoo.comYou are most welcomeCarol

Well, it's been a while so I'll post an update. This is mostly for the benefit of others who may be going through a similar experience. Perhaps it will help.The W finally moved out...I immediately changed the locks...and she immediately "shacked up" with the OP. At this point, I have told her I'll have no communication with her directly whatsoever as long as she is living in sin like that. I guess this is Plan B working itself out.Now I am moving forward with healing myself and moving on in my life. Things have improved for me as I'm very active with my relationship with God and other Christian people. If W were to come back seeking reconciliation, I sincerely doubt I will want her back. I don't think it could ever be the same, and I would not be able to trust her. For me, if someone hurts you like that then the potential will always be in that person to do it again. That type of enormous pain is not something I am willing to go through again.Counseling has helped tremendously, but putting all these problems in god's hands has helped even more. I just have to keep breathing and let God determine the rest.FYI...direct email is warewa@bordenchem.com