OK, my story;
WH searched out old girlfriend on 16/1/14 apparently for business development ( or because he wasn't sure he could love me the way he should and had residual feelings for OW which he needed to resolve, depending on which day I ask) contact established 20/3/14. PA began 20/5/14. Viagra use began 14/6/14. Affair discovered by me 24/10/14. confession 26/10/14. NC 2/11/14, 10/12/14 and finally on 6/2/15. She is no longer a client of his firm.
Text and emails I have confirm this and that he always maintained that he loved me and would never leave me.
We have been trying to rebuild ever since, not very successfully. I didnt get to SAA until February when PTSD wore off finally. And there has been alot of very stupid behaviour on my part. ( Burning his porn and dope, sledgehammer to motorbike, physical fights)
I first found MB forum 12/12/14 and WH and I read HNHN and FLSL together on holiday in January. We've done the EN questionaire. Trying to get enough QT. Our farm is for sale. He has stopped the porn and the marijuana. We are both trying very hard but we are not being effective. He only wants to talk to me. ( all our friends and family know, but there is no-one he can talk to) After 4 months hard work he can now name his feelings and talk to me about them which is awesome, but I am exhausted with being his counsel and feel more like his mother than his wife.
Yesterday we decided to rent the farm and move to a city 5 hours away as the constant triggers are too much for me with the OW working and living 5 minutes from his job and me being 1.5 hours away at home. He always asks if I want to come with him and is totally open with his life, physical and digital.
We are both now concerned that he can't meet my EN; HO, IC and SF.SF is difficult since HB wore off 6 weeks ago.
I keep ending up in Love Busters as my LB is so low. My LB's are SD, DJ AO. WH love busters are IB W D.
I'm so tired and I feel stuck.
Thank you for your help.
Welcome to MB.
Was the OW married? Who did you expose to on OW's side?
Has he changed all his contact information?
Are you having angry outbursts (AO)? Is he?
How are you confirming NC with the OW?
In addition to the constant triggers, it is also very possible for him to carry on his A when he works so closely to her. NC is next to impossible when he could run into her on the street in that close proximity. It sounds like you have already made the very necessary decision to end that job and move far away, good for you.
How did contact continue after the initial NC? Has he changed all methods for OW to contact him; cell#, email address, etc?
Thanks Brainhurts.
The OW is not married. She is the ex-wife of an important politician and was a large client for the duration of the A. WH work knows and is supportive of our marriage ( small co. whom I also contract to occaisionally) OW continued to email WH after first NC. WH ignored them but shared with me, they confirmed NC on his part altough I could have done without the attachments ! Together we sent nasty email on our wedding anniversary (yay) and nothing since. WH and I agree if there is any further contact we will contact her boss through our lawyer re harrassment. There is only her two adult sons to expose to. There is no-one else in her life.
Work contact remains the same but OW is blocked. Done last week by his IT people as per my request of 7/2/14. He is not on facebook or anything else. I installed Dr wondershare and datamine his phone once a week with his approval.
I am having AO he is not. We both go into withdrawal and I run away (sometimes for an hour sometimes over night) everytime I find another lie or lack of openness. We are both trying to change that. We agree the marriage is the best its ever been for 1 day out of seven then falls down over three days, is hell for 48 hours and then brilliant again. We are getting exhausted by the rollercoaster and cant seem to stop it. hence the move and hopefully some decent counselling.
WH is working on his courage to POJ (telling me what HE enthusiastically agrees to instead of what he thinks I want) which we have both been doing for 20 years. WH says I fill his LB easily (Admiration, HO, DS, SF, Affection) and when he is happy he forgets that I am not. He is more aware of this now and it is putting pressure on him.
I have nailed the SD's but not DJ's or AO. Frustration level goes through the roof and I almost faint with rage. ( better than it was , no more blackouts, not vomiting and shaking, skin not crawling, can eat and sleep at least 4 hours - so definately improving :-)
Hi Unwritten,
He will continue the same job but can do it online mostly and his boss is happy to rearrange so that we can move.
Contact was by email and phone and these remain the same as they are work ones, but OW has been blocked on both. He offered to let me install GPS, I told him I had :-) He makes sure to be home before 5.30 (its a 1-2 hour commute) and I have a friend who occaisionally checked that her car is at work still. He works from home as much as possible now. We moved here 2 years ago from his work location and all our friends, our son and family are there. They are now aware and watching and he knows that. Im trying not to be suspicious and let other people do that for me as it just empties my LB and Im a bit OCD about it anyway !
Sorry I didn't answer your question Unwritten,
NC on his part I confirmed from OW's emails to him saying how much she missed him; how 'he said to give her 3 months to sort it out and its been 2 months' etc, etc also no time unaccounted for, confirmed by work mates.
thanks,
Please tell us what he's done from this list.
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
Hi Donna! Welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here. You are definitely doing many things right, but there are a couple of red flags here that concern me. I wanted to discuss them:
OW continued to email WH after first NC. WH ignored them but shared with me, they confirmed NC on his part altough I could have done without the attachments ! Together we sent nasty email on our wedding anniversary (yay) and nothing since. WH and I agree if there is any further contact we will contact her boss through our lawyer re harrassment. There is only her two adult sons to expose to. There is no-one else in her life.
Work contact remains the same but OW is blocked. Done last week by his IT people as per my request of 7/2/14.
My concern here is that he has the same email address and can be contacted by the OW. Just blocking her email address does nothing. Even the dumbest cheater can figure out how to email from another address. As long as he has that email address, he is at HIGH RISK of an affair resumption. Your husband �ignoring but sharing them with� you is meaningless. Showing you the email [which he may or may not do] does not mitigate the trigger that leads to resumption of affairs. She may contact him at a weak moment and the affair will resume.
I installed Dr wondershare and datamine his phone once a week with his approval.
He offered to let me install GPS, I told him I had :-)
Any spy resource he knows of is useless. It just tells him how to hide better and does nothing for you. It won�t help you regain trust and only helps him hide an affair better.
He only wants to talk to me. ( all our friends and family know, but there is no-one he can talk to) After 4 months hard work he can now name his feelings and talk to me about them which is awesome, but I am exhausted with being his counsel and feel more like his mother than his wife.
This is good. He needs to share his feelings with you, but it has to be in a way that is ATTRACTIVE to you. If he is �exhausting� you, then he needs to clean up his conversation and do a better job. And he most certainly should NEVER be talking about his affair, or any mistakes/tragedies/unhappiness of the past. His conversation should be pleasant and enjoyable for you.
Yesterday we decided to rent the farm and move to a city 5 hours away as the constant triggers are too much for me with the OW working and living 5 minutes from his job and me being 1.5 hours away at home. He always asks if I want to come with him and is totally open with his life, physical and digital.[/quote
Great move!!! If you are triggered, he is triggered. Your marriage will improve drastically when you move. And you coming with him won�t help anything. His being �open� is meaningless. It won�t protect your marriage from an affair if the OW is right there because if he decides to resume his affair, he won�t be �open.� That is like the alcoholic promising to be �open� while he goes in the bar every day. Pretty soon he will be getting drunk again.
[quote]We are both now concerned that he can't meet my EN; HO, IC and SF.SF is difficult since HB wore off 6 weeks ago.
I keep ending up in Love Busters as my LB is so low. My LB's are SD, DJ AO. WH love busters are IB W D.
STOP all love busters now. Stop talking about the affair and focus on Conversation, affection, sexual fulfillment and rec companionship during at least 20 hours of UA time per week. That will restore your marriage the fastest.
Sorry I didn't answer your question Unwritten,
NC on his part I confirmed from OW's emails to him saying how much she missed him; how 'he said to give her 3 months to sort it out and its been 2 months' etc, etc also no time unaccounted for, confirmed by work mates.
thanks,
What is this 3 months? The fact that she knows his email address means he is at high risk for an affair resumption.
And I just want to assure you that your H absolutely can continue his affair and you would never know it. His coworkers cannot be with him every second of the day. He is free to contact her from a free work phone and meet up with her at lunch. I am not trying to upset you, but you must understand that this is not a safe situation. I understand you have taken steps to move and that will be ONE solution. But you need to make him change his email address and get some TRUE spy resources in place.
I am exhausted with being his counsel and feel more like his mother than his wife.
Put an absolute halt to anything in your relationship that leaves you feeling like his mother NOW. I lived like that nearly my entire marriage of 27 years and you are correct in your assessment that it is exhausting and I will also add unhealthy for you and your relationship. That type of relationship will breed Love Busting behaviors & potentially withdrawal.
_The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
Done. Alot of I don't remembers initially but since no more marijiuana WH has answered all questions. My problem is if I ask ( as I did yesterday) Do you think of OW? He replies: no. Then after further interrogation. He does but only in a negative way. ie: he makes sure he takes a different route to see a supplier so that he is not driving past her house. If I don't ask the correct question in the correct way he doesnt associate it. This concerns me. There is no voluntary disclosure. My request to be told of anything that might upset me now so there are no more love bombs is difficult for him as he has blocked alot out and doesn't associate answers that I would.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
Done and maintained since 1/12/14
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
Done. 1/12/14 and again 6/2/15
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
He has no private email or social networking. Only work cell and laptop which I monitor with WH and his bosses approval.Can't change work email or cell ( loss of business) but has blocked OW and all work and home is monitored by me.
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
Done.
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
Done.
_____Spend leisure time together.
All time except for work and farm ( which we do together) is spent with me.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
Relocation has been our plan but as house has not sold we are renting it and relocating asap to try to ease the stress.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
He does not have any overnight seperation. None for either of us in duration of affair. I have had four weeks in total away since D-Day. Some unavoidable commitments and some escaping. He texts me a photo of him at home and a friend of mine comes over to check and have coffee ( at his request) to reassure me.
_____Allow technical accountability.
Done. Total access to computer and iphone.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
I disclosed to my friends and family and at my request he told our son and his boss. It took longer to get him to disclose to his family. They are not close.
_The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
Done. Alot of I don't remembers initially but since no more marijiuana WH has answered all questions. My problem is if I ask ( as I did yesterday) Do you think of OW? He replies: no. Then after further interrogation.
Don't ever ask this question or interrogate him again. It only keeps the OW top of mind for you both. Leave the past in the past. This talk makes your present life unpleasant. The affair should never be discussed again unless it pertains to a current situation, such as the OW's ability to contact him at work.
He has no private email or social networking. Only work cell and laptop which I monitor with WH and his bosses approval.Can't change work email or cell ( loss of business) but has blocked OW and all work and home is monitored by me.
Any monitoring that he knows about is utterly useless.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
Relocation has been our plan but as house has not sold we are renting it and relocating asap to try to ease the stress.
Awesome!! This is the most promising part of your plan. It will reap fantastic benefits.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
He does not have any overnight seperation. None for either of us in duration of affair. I have had four weeks in total away since D-Day. Some unavoidable commitments and some escaping. He texts me a photo of him at home and a friend of mine comes over to check and have coffee ( at his request) to reassure me.
i would make plans to avoid all overnight separation. Can you take him with you? The photos and the checking in on him is not a reliable safety measure.
_____Allow technical accountability.
Done. Total access to computer and iPhone.
This would be achieved if you secretly placed spyware on his phone. With an iPhone, you can retrieve everything and install spyware so you can watch everything. But he should NEVER EVER know about it. If he knows, then he can work around it. Telling him about your spy resources renders them useless and will do nothing to restore trust to your marriage.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
I disclosed to my friends and family and at my request he told our son and his boss. It took longer to get him to disclose to his family. They are not close.
What were your son and the boss told? The wayward is not typically a good exposer.
Thanks SKD I will stop this 'counselling' behaviour now. It has been my habit for 20 years too and I need to change it.
hi MelodyLane.
Thank you for your input. Very clarifying.
Our son and WH work were told the truth.
We have tried to give DS as little informaton as possible but if he asks he is told the truth. We have both talked to him regularly and I am confident that WH is being clear, honest and supportive.
Both bosses at work have spoken with me and I am confident that WH's disclosure was full, honest and contrite.
Coversation re: thinking of other woman was regarding blocking email as I asked why it took 3 weeks to do and was told that the IT dept have stopped all incoming mail and text from her work and home and cell and these are now directed to her boss in case of a request (legallay obliged) for any information or resources from her company. WH boss is happy to deal with this.This has required some conversation and a site visit to reboot server ( I can confirm this with their IT rep if I wish)
I agree that known spyware does not alieviate my suspicions. I dont think he knows Im searching his phone and PC, he offered me carte blanche with them 3 months ago and I said I didnt want to be investigating him anymore and spending any more of my time snooping. This was after I got to the bottom of the lies and evasions and we went from SAA to recovery. I will investigate otherways of getting around company firewalls to install software.
Overnight seperations should not be a problem any longer as the last of my commitments are done.
Stopping the love busters and WH learning how to meet my EN's are the two major works in progress while we try to relocate. When my LB is negative we both withdraw from each other and get stuck.
Discussion yesterday regarding honesty and openness and POJ's were clarifying and we have found that we both love each others favourite activities ( motorbike and dancing) we have invested in these and when it gets tricky we jump on the bike and go for a swim or dance in the kitchen until we laugh again. It's remembering to do these BEFORE we crash.
Going to go write it on the blackboard !
Thank you so much, Support really does help. I stopped talking to friends and family as I got sick of having to feel grateful !
Our son and WH work were told the truth.
We have tried to give DS as little informaton as possible but if he asks he is told the truth.
Thanks for the answers, Donna! I would sit down with him on your own and tell him much more. For example, he should know the basic facts about the affair and most especially the OW's full name. I would show him her picture. You can also tell him how much this has devastated you.
Coversation re: thinking of other woman was regarding blocking email as I asked why it took 3 weeks to do and was told that the IT dept have stopped all incoming mail and text from her work and home and cell and these are now directed to her boss in case of a request (legallay obliged) for any information or resources from her company. WH boss is happy to deal with this.This has required some conversation and a site visit to reboot server ( I can confirm this with their IT rep if I wish)
All it takes is one email from another email address to get through and then the affair is back on again. This is why it is so critical for a wayward to change all of his contact information after an affair.
I agree that known spyware does not alieviate my suspicions. I dont think he knows Im searching his phone and PC, he offered me carte blanche with them 3 months ago and I said I didnt want to be investigating him anymore and spending any more of my time snooping. This was after I got to the bottom of the lies and evasions and we went from SAA to recovery. I will investigate otherways of getting around company firewalls to install software.
There are several good ways to get spyware on an iPhone. Read this thread:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2832187#Post2832187Overnight seperations should not be a problem any longer as the last of my commitments are done.
Stopping the love busters and WH learning how to meet my EN's are the two major works in progress while we try to relocate. When my LB is negative we both withdraw from each other and get stuck.
It is critical that you focus now on the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment and recreational companionship by going out on 4 - 4 hour dates a week. That will restore the romantic love in your marriage. Are you familiar with the policy of undivided attention?
Discussion yesterday regarding honesty and openness and POJ's were clarifying and we have found that we both love each others favourite activities ( motorbike and dancing) we have invested in these and when it gets tricky we jump on the bike and go for a swim or dance in the kitchen until we laugh again. It's remembering to do these BEFORE we crash.
A good idea is to schedule 4 4 hour dates outside of the house. Time spent together at home is typically useless because it is too easy to get distracted by chores, phone, etc. UA time spent at home is lousy and ineffective.
If you make these changes, especially not talking about the affair and eliminating love busters, you will start seeing a huge difference in how you feel very fAST.
Discussion yesterday regarding honesty and openness and POJ's were clarifying and we have found that we both love each others favourite activities ( motorbike and dancing) we have invested in these and when it gets tricky we jump on the bike and go for a swim or dance in the kitchen until we laugh again.
By "poj's" do you mean the policy of joint agreement?
Sorry MelodyLane. Yes POJ being Policy of joint agreement.
WH thought POJ meant agreeing to what I wanted because letting me do what I want makes him happy. Getting him to say 'no I don't agree' is the hardest part. This has been a problem for many years so its taking a while for
Farm chores are getting in the way of UA which we are on top of this week. WH has agreed to start keeping a QT diary so we can see what is effective. We re-read UA yesterday and he has a better understanding of the need to make the time we spend together effective instead of just drivel talk or TV or 'companiable silence' which I don't enjoy at the moment as it gives my brain time to wander down the wrong paths.
We can't change his work cell or email address. Its been discussed but it's just too disruptive to the company and his clients. Financially everyone suffers too much. I will read the thread on spyware. Thank you.
We can't change his work cell or email address. Its been discussed but it's just too disruptive to the company and his clients. Financially everyone suffers to much.
If you leave these door open you are setting yourself up for a False Recovery.
Can't he send a message to all customers with the new contact information? Your marriage should come first.
Thanks for your advice BrainHurts. WH fell off the deck and has 20 stitches in his head. So we will deal with that first ! looking for a key logger software instead as I can do that
Many thanks for all your help.
Hi Melodylane
Yes son has been told facts of affair including dates, specific events which were effected, why certain things are triggers and have been removed. wH disclosed email of 6/2/15 and its attachments to DS which we discussed as it meant we would no longer be going to a concert with him. I told him name and locations of OW. He is aware of my level of pain and is very sad. I haven't shown him a picture but his girlfriend has done a search on OW as they live close.
I've seen the thread on spyware ( it's how I found Wondershare) will look for key logger software.
Many thanks
Sorry for not posting an update. H had a lengthy recovery from his head injury and his Dad died 10 days ago. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed and am having difficulty seeing whats really going on anymore. Please can you help me gain some perspective ? All this stuff is tangled up in my head and Im struggling to find the right options.
Ive finally gotten H to update his iphone ( and now have ALL the passwords) so I now have 'find my iphone' on and he loaded a GPS tracker on it for me. I want to install webmaster but I can't use my credit card as it is a joint one. Im not working and can't get a credit card without them asking my husband to guarentee it. I asked my Mum and a friend if they would pay and I can reimburse them with cash. They both refused (my Mum says I should leave and doesnt want me to spend the money, my friend thinks I should just trust H, or shouldnt be in a relationship where i feel the need to spy) Ive explained about marriage builders but they dont get it. I will ask someone else but am still stuck with that at the moment.
H still works at the same company and this continues to be a problem as I havent found work. We have tried where I go with him on the days he goes to the office, but being in this suburb empties my lovebank (big trigger) and obviously him being in the same office is unsafe. We havent sold our house and the renting option has been shelved whiloe we sort out animals etc and with everything else thats been going on.
H is home so I will send more soon !
More from the deepths of the forest :-)
H has changed his behaviour in the past couple of weeks. He seems more withdrawn. I have asked him about this and he has denied it. Our UA time has fallen from 20 hours four weeks ago to 5 and 10 hours. This week he has made a concerted effort to follow MB.
I asked him ten days ago to take responsibility for remembering to initiate and lead the UA timesheet process each week as a sign of his commitment ( H has a history of making agreements and then saying he hasnt or changing his mind, not remembering - so i asked for this in writing and got rewards and consequences in place) On Saturday (two days after it was Due to be filled in but 1 day after his dads funeral) I brought the timesheet out and said that under the circumstances I didnt want to put the consequences in place and would he be up to doing it today.H said it want just his responsibility and I should have done it. I said I was reminding him now and in fact he had taken responsibility, in writing. H then said he can't see what day it is and when it needs to be redone because he can't read it, he said I should remind him. I said that was one option or he could put his glasses on and look at it clearly ( it's on the fridge !). We agreed that this was a better option ( I didn't get this in writing and yesterday he said that I had agreed to remind him)
I think Im getting alot of wayward speak from a lazy H but not sure if Im being paranoid, controlling and have set my expectations too high. Ive asked for reassurance and protection and given examples but I get " I love you, you're beautiful and sexy" (also said repeatedly to OP in texts) I don't feel protected and my lovebank feels the lowest its been since D-day. I am sick of hearing that he has forgotten or didnt understand something we agreed on. He remembered every bloody day for a year not to tell me he was with OP !
Our IC sucks ! This was my 1st EN ( H & O is now) H is usually a good talker, H says this is because he was stoned. I have asked again why he is reticent and reserved the past three weeks and he says because a friend who we went to see for his head injury ( massage, naturopath and my aunt) said that there are no mistakes its just life experience and so he put it all behind him and moved on. I said that was great and what I was trying to do, but if it meant that he forgot or wasn't aware of triggers and situation where I was being hurt then that straegy wasn't working for me.
I'm sorry for the incoherent babble. I'm just trying to get everything out quickly before I have to go out. Please post me your advice and I will try to put it in place. I don't feel I can trust my own judgement and my friends and family don't have an MB stance so Im looking for some guidance.
Thank you all so much for the support,
W
Last week H said that me not knowing how much he loves me is a big lovebuster for him. I thanked him for sharing and told him the next day ( our UA and LB discussion day) that me loving him or not is completely his choice. If he meets my EN and avoides LB then I will eventually love him. Did I do that right ?
thanks,
Wilmak, your husband is not doing much to rebuild this marriage, and there must be a reason for that. I suspect that he and OW are in contact again.
Stop pushing and parenting him to fulfil UA time. You can tell him that it's something you need to stay in the marriage, but don't organise or chivvy him and beg him, the way you have been doing. If he won't spend this time with you willingly, eventually you will have to leave him.
Where you live, would you be able to buy a pre-loaded cash card, paid for by saving a little cash each time you go to the supermarket? You might even be able to pay for the card in amongst your grocery shopping, using your credit card as normal to pay for the shopping, as long as your H does not check the grocery bill. You can use the debit card to pay an online bill (for the keylogger).
I get particularly incensed when a wayward or otherwise abusive spouse exploits Dr Harley's concepts to bamboozle and upset the spouse they are abusing. "Not knowing how much he loves you" cannot be a love buster. Your H is turning Dr H's concepts back on you to make you feel bad and to get you leave him alone. It is a form of gaslighting. It is a particularly cruel thing to do. if you do not feel that he loves you, this is because of what he has done by having an affair, and is still doing by punishing you for having discovered it. Don't argue with him about what is or isn't a LB, but never apologise for this again.
What did you mean by your "IC" not working? Are you seeing an individual counsellor? Is your H spilling his guts at these sessions and talking about his pain, in front of you? If so, no wonder this is not working. You need to stop any form of IC, and you need to stop allowing your H to talk about his "feelings" to you, since, at present, his feelings are dominated by his affair, and thus you are being forced to listen to him mourn your having disrupted his affair.
I think you need to prepare to ask him to leave. Give him a short time - a couple of weeks at most - to get on board with UA and to come out of his funk. If he has been in NC since January, his depressed mood should have lessened by now, not deepened as it has done. Something is very wrong here.
You also need to press on with moving away.
What did you mean by your "IC" not working? Are you seeing an individual counsellor?
I think she is referring to the EN of IC, not counseling.
More from the deepths of the forest :-)
I have asked again why he is reticent and reserved the past three weeks and he says because a friend who we went to see for his head injury ( massage, naturopath and my aunt) said that there are no mistakes its just life experience and so he put it all behind him and moved on.
WOW so she is a massage therapist, naturopath specialist, AND a marriage counselor??? Quite the credentials.
That is one of those trendy antidotes that people like to say in the world today...'there are no mistakes, only life experiences." Um, no, unless you don't believe in right and wrong and believe that doing something WRONG is a mistake (def: an action or judgement that is misguided or WRONG) then you CAN make a mistake.
I agree with SugarCane that it sounds like he still has contact with the OW.
Thank you sugarcane and unwritten. Yes I meant intimate conversation. Sorry for the confusion. There is no counselor in our city familiar with MB so we aren't doing that. Saving for the home study course.
Thanks for the great idea. I hadn't thought of a cash card ( really am having trouble thinking !) I will get one on Monday. Yay :-)
I agree with you both. I think he's in withdrawal as he hasn't been able to go to the office much in the last six weeks and not at all in the last 10 days. Key logger won't help with that. But at least I can stop the email if it's still happening. OW is supposed to be blocked on his laptop but I will check that again tomorrow. I'm in surgery this morning but after that I will just have to go with him EVERY time he goes until we sell.
I'm working on interrupting my implicit memory but I can't keep it up for 3 hours when we're right in the idle of the scene of the crime ! Any other ideas ?
I have a plan B but I've seen definite improvement. He won't leave the house and I can't make him legally. The house is my only asset and he can make it really hard to sell if I leave. Plan B is going to turn into plan D very quickly I think.
Key logger and constant companion while being cheerful and supportive is my current plan.
Keep up the good ideas and I'll try to implement them.
Thank you
Wilmak, you can probably get him to leave. The first way would be to pack his bags and ask him to leave. Second way is to file for divorce and get him kicked out. You are not perpetually chained to a wayward husband.
OW is supposed to be blocked on his laptop but I will check that again tomorrow.
I don't understand this. How do you block from a particular device? Isn't it the email account that can be set up to block her - and thus this can be done from any device? (I might be wrong - my knowledge is very limited.)
You need a keylogger for that laptop, also. I don't know if there are any on the market that allow for multiple installations from one piece of software. The one I know about, Eblaster, only allows for one installation per purchase.
Do you have spyware on his phone?
You might need more money than you thought.
Thanks sugarcane. They are an IT company so OW was blocked at the server not his laptop. Key logger will check this but I did ask his employer today and she said there was no contact from OW.
I use find my iPhone and dr wonder share on H phone. Nothing there and no deleted texts or emails since December (which is when I asked for this)
I have cash with a friend in case I have to plan B, so just need to buy a card and load it. Then get around the firewalls on their servers.
melody: I'm sure I can apply enough pressure to get him to leave if I need to. Legally neither of us can force the other to vacate, we have to negotiate. but if I need to make him leave I will.
My surgery went better than expected and H has been very supportive this week. He listened to MB radio and has stuck to UA time. Picked me flowers, bought chocolate and NO independent behavior! Which is a first for him. Lots of thank you'd and gratitude when I do something. Also he initiated SF and voluntarily went to chemist for Viagra. Which he hasn't meeded. So maybe he's coming out of the fog ? Too soon to tell but certainly showing more commitment than in the past four months.
I've asked H repeatedly to tell me when I do LB ( I've been working really hard on these) and he doesn't. Also I've asked h in what ways I can meet his EN ( admiration affection ) but apart from touch he just sayse being happy is all he needs. He says he's not as self aware and doesn't know. This is not helpful ! Any ideas ?
He asked for my login to read my ebook of FILSIL so hopefully he will do that. He has read HNHN only.
H says he doesn't know what to say to reassure me but does want to protect me and our marriage. I've said I will tell him what words and actions I find reassuring and give him a list of triggers so he can help avoid them. H being in bed on his laptop is a trigger and he has avoided this. Last night we were both reading on our laptops in bed and I got up to make a cup of tea. He asked if I wanted him to come withe or shut his laptop and I said it was ok. But I heard him sit up in bed (he was getting up to take the tray for me) and I realized the trigger is the noise of him quickly [censored] the laptop and getting up. We talked about this and now we know what to do.
Recovery is such a mine field and so exhausting!
please let me know if I'm getting any of this right.
Many thanks
W
H asked that we create a safe zone around his office which I'm happy to be in.
I've asked H repeatedly to tell me when I do LB ( I've been working really hard on these) and he doesn't. Also I've asked h in what ways I can meet his EN ( admiration affection ) but apart from touch he just sayse being happy is all he needs. He says he's not as self aware and doesn't know. This is not helpful ! Any ideas ?
I would focus on getting in 15-20 hours of UA time every week and during that time, focus exclusively on the 4 intimate emotional needs.
He asked for my login to read my ebook of FILSIL so hopefully he will do that. He has read HNHN only.
The correct book is Surviving an Affair. Do you both have that?
H asked that we create a safe zone around his office which I'm happy to be in.
What does this mean?
I think he's in withdrawal as he hasn't been able to go to the office much in the last six weeks and not at all in the last 10 days. Key logger won't help with that. But at least I can stop the email if it's still happening. OW is supposed to be blocked on his laptop but I will check that again tomorrow.
This was posted this month and you also posted that the last contact was the beginning of February, 2/6?
I am sorry to tell you that there has been more recent contact that your H is not telling you about. Given that the OW can easily contact him through the workplace (blocking her email is not adequate) then that just confirms the suspicion.
Thank you for your reply MelodyLane and SusieQ. Yes I've read SAA H has not but now he has my kindle login he can read it if he wants. He knows it's there.
UA time is 16 hours this week. That's planned time. Unplanned is time is 8 hours. My problem is how to meet his need for affection and admiration. I tell him things he says or does that I admire or respect, massage his back, cuddle, kiss, touch him him when I walk past him. But he doesn't know specifically what I do that makes him feel loved. Just if I'm happy, he's happy. I'm fairly good at that but sometimes I'm just so sad. Am I over thinking this or should we do our EN questionnaire again ?
H would like me to go to the office with him once a week and help work so we have more time together. I am happy to do this but I get very upset driving around OW house and office so he asked that we draw a line on the map of where I won't go and where he can't go. Does that make sense ?
I've asked if he had contact with OW or was upset about his Dad passing away. He says no he's fine and happy and being totally honest. Loves having me with him all the time.
Its a national holiday here this weekend and shops are closed but I'm getting that cash card and key logger on Tuesday !
I think I need to bring up renting the house out and moving again. This discussion was shelved after his accident and the funeral stuff. There is also discussion with his employer about moving the office to another town which would affect where we moved to. This would really help but will take time.
I hope I answered your question ML. I'm on my phone as my laptop is busy searching H's. Very tricky even with my glasses on :- )
Thank you for your help.
Sorry SusieQ I didn't reply properly. I think there has been email but I can't find proof yet ( key logger in 4 days yay) so I think I have to wait for proof before a plan B. he can't have seen OW for at least three weeks as he hasn't had time away from me or his family ( who are supporting our marriage) it's an email if at all. I may be paranoid. There's nothing on his iPhone and he employer would hear if he used the office phone. No money unaccounted for. Nothing on home phone. He could have another phone but I've searched thoroughly and regularly. I know there have been gaps in surveillance but I'm plugging them now.
Working on UA time today. Thanks for clarifying where I'm up to in all this.
"H would like me to go to the office with him once a week and help work so we have more time together. I am happy to do this but I get very upset driving around OW house and office so he asked that we draw a line on the map of where I won't go and where he can't go. Does that make sense ? "
You go by the OW house and office??
UA time is 16 hours this week. That's planned time. Unplanned is time is 8 hours.
What have you done in your 16 hours? Could you give us a list, with the hours spent each time?
My problem is how to meet his need for affection and admiration. I tell him things he says or does that I admire or respect, massage his back, cuddle, kiss, touch him him when I walk past him. But he doesn't know specifically what I do that makes him feel loved. Just if I'm happy, he's happy. I'm fairly good at that but sometimes I'm just so sad. Am I over thinking this or should we do our EN questionnaire again ?
If he says you are meeting his needs well, then accept that. Don't badger him about it.
If you do the whole MB programme, then one of the concepts you will cover is radical honesty. You will be encouraged to be radically honest about your feelings about each other and the marriage (the subject of the affair will forever be off the table, though), as well as about your past lives (again, affair excepted). If he is not being honest now, as you begin to practice that in your marriage, your husband will see the benefits of being honest with you about everything, including how well you are meeting his ENs, and what else he would like you to do.
You should redo the EN questionnaire from time to time, as needs change as we go through life, but do not redo it as a way of pressuring him to tell you something that you suspect he isn't telling. Implying that he is not telling you the whole truth about his feelings is a DJ.
H would like me to go to the office with him once a week and help work so we have more time together. I am happy to do this but I get very upset driving around OW house and office so he asked that we draw a line on the map of where I won't go and where he can't go. Does that make sense ?
Yes, why not do that? You shouldn't be asked to go anywhere that bring OW to mind, ever again, so why not tell him where those places are?
Is there an alternative to actually going to his office, such as working online at home, or doing some sort of foot-slogging outside the office - with customers?
I've asked if he had contact with OW
Don't ask. You should not be bringing her up, and also, you cannot trust him to tell you if he does have contact. Instead, you need to quickly bring about conditions in which contact is impossible.
I think I need to bring up renting the house out and moving again. This discussion was shelved after his accident and the funeral stuff. There is also discussion with his employer about moving the office to another town which would affect where we moved to. This would really help but will take time.
Yes, bring up renting the house, urgently, again. Living where you are is stalling your progress.
Hello Again,
It�s been a long time since I posted so a lengthy update;
Our farm finally sold in August. We had planned to separate finances and live together in a house I bought to renovate together, while H would buy a house with huge garage for his office and vehicles etc and rent his house out. 5 days before moving he informed me he had secretly seen a lawyer and changed the financial settlement. So we moved independently into our own houses. My friends and family want nothing to do with him. Our son is angry and aloof with H, uncomfortable with me.
Since then H has been reliable, considerate, attentive and supportive. We spend most nights together. He travels to head office once a month still. Sometimes I�m able to go with him. H has made no effort to learn how to have open honest intimate conversation despite my requests (and his agreement) to do marriagebuilders, go to counselling, read books. I am unable to move forward without this.
H wants us to buy a house together to live in ( neither of us want to live in each others house) he says he is committed to the relationship, but won�t learn how to communicate intimately. I don�t want to live somewhere I can�t have my friends and family over as I miss real conversation and this is something he is unwilling to supply. H wants to have one night a week at his own house as he says he needs the space as the relationship is too intense. Other things seem very good most of the time.
He says he�s happy and has no need to talk about the relationship, but happy to listen to me if I need!
Sounds like a renter attitude still and my own fault for not sticking to my boundaries :-/
What do I do now ?
H wants to have one night a week at his own house as he says he needs the space as the relationship is too intense. Other things seem very good most of the time.
He says he�s happy and has no need to talk about the relationship, but happy to listen to me if I need!
Sounds like a renter attitude still and my own fault for not sticking to my boundaries :-/
What do I do now ?
Sounds to me like it is Plan B time.
Yep. That's what I thought. Thanks for the link. Currently stuck on holiday. Roads are closed. so time to make a good plan B 😄