Here is my question. It is rare that I have a conversation with my XW other than hi and bye while exchanging the kids. Since the D process started I think there have been maybe, two or three time we have had a conversation more than general pleasantries. Last night being one of them. I find myself biting my lip on a lot of things she says, then afterward feel pissed that I like didn't stand up for myself when I should've.

A couple of examples from last night’s conversation. She tells me that she doesn't want our children left alone with my brother and his wife. Rather than tell her it's not any of her business if I choose to let my children stay with their aunt and uncle, I just bite my lip and say that there really isn't that chance anyway (which there isn't). See, since our D my XW has befriended my brother's XW. The funny thing is my XW couldn't stand my brothers XW because of all the stunts she always pulled. Now they talk on occasion for whatever reason.

My XW had the A and that was ultimately what ruined our marriage. We had a lot of other issues, but her A and unwillingness to end the A was the straw that broke the camels back. I met a wonderful woman six months into my D process and we have been together since. Anyway, talk about my GF came up as she is going to pick up the children for me. My XW said she didn’t feel comfortable because my GF is too stand-offish the few times my XW and GF have seen each other. I commented that her BF (affair partner) and I don’t say anything to each other either. That didn’t matter because he hates me. Well, the thing is – my GF isn’t real fond of the XW either. The XW (although she has mellowed out a bit) has been very difficult in the past to deal with. If there was a compromise to be made it was me doing all the compromising or else she wouldn’t do it. She used to use the kids as pawns in a power trip. Again, I bit my lip and didn’t say anything.

My XW then implied that my GF and I had our own A, but the ironic thing is I…
a) didn’t meet her till 5 months after I filed for D and
b) wouldn’t have ever met her if my XW didn’t have an A

Then she gets on her high horse because she didn’t agree with the way I introduced my GF to the children. It’s basically, “I am right and you are wrong” with her. It’s ok if her BF doesn’t want to talk to me, but if my GF doesn’t want to talk to her it’s not ok. I can’t control who she chooses to take the children around but she wants to control who I take the children around.

Should I bite my lip and keep mouth shut like I do or stand up for myself and family? I feel like I stay mum because I want to try and keep a civil relationship between us. We have children and will always have to “deal with” each other, but at what price? Besides, one thing I learned in my failed marriage is that you can’t “win” an argument with her. She always had to be right.

You have your own life now. You don't need to bite your lip. Ignore her controlling nonsense or politely tell her to go pound sand. As long as your kids are not endangered or unduly influenced by the girlfriend or the relatives then do what you want. Unless your divorce papers say she has a direct say so of what the kids do when they are in your care then she should go get a life. I have the same issues. I ignore my ex's bs and move on. Oh, and if she continues to get out of line and in your face, tear out the page in the dictionary that defines the word adultery or the word ****** or the word homewrecker and put it in your envelope that contains your support payment or whatever.

Are you biting your tongue, or giving into her ridiculous demands? Debating your decisions probably won’t do any good. I’d just say that you reserve the right to introduce your children to whomever, whenever and however you please. You also reserve the right to allow them to visit your relatives when they are with you. If she wants to argue, you simply restate your stand. Likewise, with having your girlfriend pick up the children. “I’m sorry you don’t feel comfortable, but that’s the way it’s going to work this time.” No one ever wins a tit-for-tat, so you’re wise to avoid that.

Yes and yes.

When your X mentions that she doesn't want the kids around someone you need to ask why she feels that way. If her reason is for the safety or concern for the kids. Then I say, bit your lip and maybe even give her the satifaction of feeling like she won, even if it seems that she is going a bit overboard.

If the reasons are for her benefit, stand up for youself. Try to refrain from acusations, but just state what you are going to do and refuse to argue with her.

Gekko, Thanks for that. I kinda feel that way. I think that's why I posted here. It's been a long time since I have been to these forums.

Greengables, It's more biting my tongue. I'm not giving in to her demands. She actually hasn't made any ridiculous demands lately. She used to, but that behavior has mellowed. It's just that she comes off to me as though she is high and mighty and I feel as though I am being weak if I don't correct her. I think you are right though, going tit-for-tat with her isn't going to accomplish anything. Maybe it makes her feel better to put me and my family down.

She told me in a condescending way that she would never ask her BF to pick up the children for her, but that's just a decision she has made (we live 4 hours apart and my GF is right in the neighborhood and offered to pick them up for me, otherwise I wouldn't have put her in that position) The thing is, I would not have a problem if my XW sent her BF. I would still meet him and turn the children over to him. As long as he treats my kids right he and I will not have any problems. My GF loves my children and treats them great and they love her too! I have no desire to become friends with the XW's BF, why does the XW want a sort of freindship with my GF?

The two reasons were
1) She wouldn't do that and
2) my GF is "stand-offish" to my XW whenever she has been with me to pick the kids up in the past.

Well, so what if she wouldn't do that and sorry, but my GF has no desire to become a friend of my XW. She says hi when they cross paths, but doesn't want anything more than a cordial hello and that's that. My XW wants to be able to small talk I guess and have little conversations with my GF. My GF doesn't want that with my XW just like the XW's BF doesn't want that with me. I'm fine with that. I don't need to talk to him and ask him how he's been. I don't care and it would be fake. Which is exactly how my XW comes off as. Fake.

I guess what I meant was try to at least give XW an opportunity to voice her concerns. Bite you lip at first but don't let her cross the line.

Concerning GF's "stand-offishness", I suggest telling XW "sorry you think that but GF WILL be picking them up." Try to refrain from bantering with her. If she continued on with "I wouldn't do that", then I probably couldn't resist throwing in "what I like about GF is that she's not like you." Just be ready to make a quick exit before the shock wears off.

Thanks, you made me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Your XW wants to have a friendship with your GF so she can exhibit some control. She may even think that she can use that friendship against you or in her favor in some way. Boundaries mean nothing to her. They mean everything to you. Set up those boundaries, live your life, and watch her spin around like a crackhead ballerina.

I seriously question why anyone would introduce a boyfriend or girlfriend to the kids.

They have already had their family torn apart. Why would you put them at risk of getting their hearts broken by attaching themselves to someone else they care for? Odds are you and your GF will not work out or that she will be a temporary presence, so why let the kids get attached?

My ex has made some big mistakes but I appreciate the fact that she keeps her BF and her kids separate.

I don't bring anyone around my kids when I have them.

Just a thought.

gekko, you are absolutely correct. My XW is a very controlling person. I never realized it while we were married, but once we separated it all came to light.

Now the only control she has is over the kids and she uses that whenever she can. Since she has custody she uses them as her pawns.

Here is what happened today with the exchange. I get a call from my XW after the exchange telling me that the kids are on the way. She then proceeds to say in a very angry tone that "That is the first and LAST time [my GF] will pick up the girls". When I asked what happened she said I probaly already knew because she assumed I had already spoken with my GF. I hadn't actually, but as this conversation with my XW was going the GF was calling. I then told the XW that as long as I designated my GF to pick them up she [XW] will turn the children over to my GF. The XW then said that she only has to turn the kids over to me or my wife and since my GF and I are not married she will not give the kids to her in the future. She then hung up on me.

I check my voicemail from the GF. She says, "Hey, it's me. I just wanted to let you know that we are on our way and that everything went fine. I'll see you in a few hours." So now I am scratching my head wondering why my XW was pissed and my GF thought everything went great. I call the GF up and she says she pulled in the driveway, the kids came out of the house. She buckled them in and said hi to my XW and away they went. I told her what the XW said and the GF couldn't figure out what her problem was. Se suspected it was because she [GF] didn't carry on a conversation with my XW. That may be the case. The XW needs to realize that my GF does not want to be her friend. Just like the XW's BF does not want to be my friend. I don't care, why does my XW care? If the XW has an issue she can take it up with me, she doesn't need to call my GF and discuss anything.

I called my XW back to try and get clarification over why she was so outraged over the exchange and my GF thought everything went great. The XW then says that she was not angy, but that it is my responsibility to pick the children up and she is not going to give them to anyone but me. She could not give me any valid reaon other than it was MY responsibility to pick them. Sure, it may be my responsibility and I delegated that to my GF (who was more than happy to help out, even if it meant dealing with this crazy broad). Then she hung up on me again.

This is definitely a control issue with my XW as well as displaying her anger issus. I would always describe her to people as "she isn't happy unless she is pissed off".

Better Man, Better Off

Whoa! I wouldn't have introduced my kids to my GF had I not thought we would end up together. We plan on getting married, I am just a little gunshy on the whole marriage idea right now. It seems to me that there really is nothing for a man to gain by getting married. My GF and I have a great relationship. As a matter of fact, our relationship is what I wished my XW and I would have had. If we did, we wouldn't be divorced right now. I see myself with my GF for the rest of my life. I just don't see how a piece of paper making her my W makes a difference in our relationship.

Like I told my soon to be ex-wife.

You are going to see something new.

And she most certainly has. I didn't passively roll over and give up. I am fighting her tooth and nail over every little detail if she wants me gone that bad. I may lose in the end, but I will have left an irreversable mark to say the least.

So far things are going extremely poorly since the judge allowed my recordings of her admiting to the affair and wanting me dead right before I got shot.

Dude, you thought your wife was forever too. You haven't even divorced yet and have your new wife lined up.

It is irresponsible on both your parts. It is playing with your kids emotions. Short of you being engaged, these kids shouldn't be meeting girlfriends.

Your girlfriend could very easily and quickly decide she doesn't want to deal with the drama and then bail.

Also, I hate to say it, but your ex is right. I would never give my kids over to anyone other than my ex or her family, possibly a sitter.

But there is no way in ****** I would be ok with giving them to a boyfriend.

She has every right to feel this way and you are very wrong to play with your kids emotions. Your time with your kids should be exclusively for them and not have a third party there. So now your kids have to share their time with someone that isn't family and they'd likely want to just be with you.

Think about your kids first. If it's your time to be with them, then YOU should take responsibility and take care of them. Rearrange your work schedule if you need to.

I'm saying this for your kids. Girlfriends will come and go.

You have sex with her when the kids are in the house? How would you feel if your kids walked in on you.

Think about it.

mustang, I am divorced. My girlfriend and I have discussed marriage and will get married someday. When I can get over the fear that she may turn into a woman like my XW. I am not playing with my kids emotions. They love my GF and think the world of her. When I talk to them on the phone, they always ask how she is and want me to tell her that they miss her. I don't think you have a grasp on my situation. I did not have the affair. I did not meet my GF until 6 months after I filed for D from my now XW. SHE had the A and is still with her AP. My kids did not meet my GF until she and I had been dating for 7 or 8 months. We have been together for almost two years now.

As for your comment about my time with the kids being exlusively for them, I feel that my GF is a part of my life and she deserves to have the time with my children as well as they deserve to have time with her too. I would not think of not having them get to know her then all of the sudden say "Daddy's getting married. Here is your soon to be step-mother." To me, that is irrisponsible.

That is true and I made a judgement without all the facts. It sounded like you just divorced.

I've had similar back and forth battles with my ex over the kids. It is so sad because they're the ones that suffer. It is good if they get along with you GF.

I'm just skeptical of relationships in general and especially after a D. I think we make mistakes in judgement on who we pick because we are very emotional at times like this.

It sounds like you have a good and understanding woman. Your ex is probably upset with the fact that you've truly moved on and she has lost what little emotional sway she had over you.

Good luck

Ask yourself how you would want things handled if the situation was reversed.

1) Do you think she has any valid concerns if your brother was to watch your kids? Do they drink/smoke/swear/not have any kids/not really pay attention to the kids? Would you care if they were left with her sister? If the answer is no, I would ask her what her concerns are and assure that they will be addressed.

2)Uh, your GF and you did have your own A as you were still married when you got together.

3) Would your want her BF to pick up the kids? I can see her point that the parent should pick up the kids because they are going to see you, not her. If it is a regular thing, perhaps you should change the timing. If it is a one time thing, then I don't see the problem.

4) Did she introduce her BF to the kids? In what time frame? Were you okay with that? How fast did you introduce your GF to the kids?

he met his gf 6 months after he filed for divorce and this is an affair? i don't think so. he and his wife were not living together and the divorce was in the process.

i started talking to my now bf 5 months after he filed for divorce and we started dating exclusively right around the time his divorce became final. i was legally separated. i suppose we were having an affair too even though he no longer lived with his wife and my ex had been living with ow for a year at that point.

i believe an affair to be when 2 people are living with eachother and are actively married, no legal sep, sneaking around, etc...

if divorce is in the process, the parties no longer live together, etc, that is not an affair to me. my legal sep stated we could live apart and separate from eachother as though we were not married. that was good enough for me.

everyone is going to have an opinion on this but i don't think we need to be pointing the finger at someone who was obviously betrayed by a real live affair by accusing him of having his own. that is ridiculous.

mlhb

mustang,
I re-read my original post and I can see where it may have sounded like I was either still in the process of my D or had just finalized it. Sorry for the confusion. I have been D'd for 8 months. The whole process from start to finish took an excruciating 20 months. It's basically been over two years for me.

wannabophim,
1) No she does not have any valid concerns regarding my brother. She is basing this on stories she has heard from my brothers XW. Who, up until we got D'd, my XW didn't even like. Since we D'd my XW has befriended my brother's XW.

2) I know a lot of people on these forums feel that if you date before your D is final then you are having your own A. That is fine if you feel that way, but I don't. I feel that once you file for D then the disolution of the marriage is underway. I mean, my whole process took 20 months. It wasn't a 2 month quickie with no kids type D.

3) I would have no objection if she were to send her BF to pick the kids up. As long as he treats them well we will not have a problem. This incident was a one time thing due to the circumstances surrounding the Easter holiday.

4) She has introduced the kids to her BF. Not sure when. How did I feel about that? Really have no opinion either way. I knew she was going to and quite honestly feel it's none of my business who she introduces the children to. I have to trust that she is not going to put them in harms way by who she keeps company as I feel she has no business controlling who I may introduce the children to as long as I don't put them in harms way. I introduced my GF to the kids about 6 months before the D was final, so 14 months after I filed. And about 7 or 8 months after I met the GF and we had been dating exclusively for about 6 months.

Also, I have decided that it is best to go strickly from the divorce decree. It was foolish of me to think I could "work with" my XW as she is still very irrational about everything. Maybe someday we will be able to co-parent our children, but until she can let go of her emotions it has to be this way. I did a lot of irrational things back when I discovered the A and I acted on my emotions. That is how she is. You just can't communicate and work with an irrational person.

As Ron White says You Can't Fix Stupid

I completely understand how emotions can guide your actions. This past year I have acted out of fear and anger and it has really made things sour with my ex and I.

I am really trying to interact with calm and respect (deserved or not) with her now. We don't say much to each other, but I have tried to be positive and even throw a complement or two her way.

For example, she had many concerns about a baby sitter watching the kids while we worked. She called basically to tell me all the things I should make sure I pass on to her. I could have acted defensively and said something like, "I'm responsible enough to take care of this myself!"

Instead, I let her get those things off her chest and told her I would pass on what she suggested. I texted her later and told her that the kids would be fine and that her inputs were welcomed and respected.

Really, what does it hurt to listen, even if it is unnecessary?

I guess I'm just entering a different stage in this whole mess. None of this new life is better than when things were bad when I was married. I would still take my bad times then over my good times now.

I'm hoping she gets more reasonable with time for you.

It doesn't hurt to listen, you're right. That's what I tried to do this past week when I bit my lip. Now, I think I would rather not listen at all. I don't want to hear anything unless it has to deal with the children. As for me, the bad times now, are better than the good times when I was married to her. Sad to say. I look back and it seems like we were both very unhappy almost the entire marriage. Both our mistakes for doing nothing to correct the issue.

We had a lot of turmoil in our lives as well, but I thought that our marriage was better for it, not worse.

9/11 happened right before we got married. She got pregnant right after we got married. Then followed by the war (I was an AF pilot), moving to England, deployment, busted tests (as a pilot, she stuck by me on that), a twin pregnancy (which was really rough), depression during that pregnancy, deployment during the pregnancy, the birth of our sons, a bad relationship with our commander, a move back to the States, another deployment.

The twins were a joy and a burden at the same time. Twins are very, very busy and draining, but I love them very much.

I thought we made it through all of that stronger as a couple. Just 9 months before she got abducted by aliens and had her brain scrambled she was writing me and telling me how she loved me more deeply for all we had been through. When I deployed I would go to sleep every night by pretending she was behind me, with her arm around my waist.

I had no clue that she felt our problems were so bad that they couldn't be resolved. We never went to counseling after she revealed her feelings to me. She became a WW and I did everything wrong and lost her.

It has been a ****** of a year. I guess that letting go of someone you love so intensely makes the letting go process more intense as well.

I still hurt a little when I think of her with someone else. Not anywhere as bad as a year ago, but it still stings a little. There has been much anger on both sides.

I believe we're through the worst and we don't seem to argue as much lately and we keep our conversations short. It has been my own personal emotional evolution that has led me to choose to stop arguing. I finally see for myself that doing so if futile. Life itself can do all the speaking for me.

I'm just now making myself available to date again and I see how challenging it is when there's kids in the equation. She hasn't felt this yet because she hasn't gotten serious with anyone. She's been with the same guy for 8 months, but it isn't serious. It may be in her eyes, but how serious can it be if he's never been around the kids? I'm completely speculating there and she may see him as not being serious.

I think she keeps them from him because she wants to protect the kids but also because she doesn't see him as marriage material but merely as someone she can go out with and have fun. At least that's what I think.

Hang in there mustang. It will get better, I guarentee it. I remember those times. Now, I am in a much better place. I went through the depression. My life, has improved ten fold. I am a much happier person now than I was married. Sad, but true. I have met a wonderful woman who is everything I could ever ask for. If only I could see my children everyday. The only negative to this situation for me. I too, have twins that were a blessing and a curse on my marriage. One was born with a lot of health issues that added to the strain. Twins are a lot of work. The only thing haunting me about the D is that I feel I let my children down. I feel they deserved to have a mother and father together in the same house. But, I wasn't about to let my XW have a BF and be married to me, like she wanted.

It will get better...

You know, it's possible that she could have some real concerns about the GF that have nothing to do with her trying to be a pain-in-the-[censored] on purpose. I can think of 3:

1) She's worried about how your GF is treating the kids because she's not there to see it. Maybe you don't worry about the BF but most women WOULD worry about the GF.

2) She's worried that your GF might be treating your kids TOO well. She doesn't want to be replaced. This is an irrational fear, yes, but it would be normal.

3) She's worried that you are using the GF as your new babysitter and therefore the kids are not getting much quality time with YOU, their dad. If I were her, I would be very worried about that.

In ref to #1) I understand, however, I feel it's not my choice who my XW chooses to have around the children and it's not her choice who I do. You can worry all you want, but as long as the children are being treated well that's all that matters.

#2) I agree, it's irrational. At first I felt this. Thinking about my XW moving in with her BF and the fact that he would be around my children more than I would, but I soon realized that I am their father and they know that. No matter how much they might like him, I am their father.

#3) My situation is a bit different than most. Although my papers say I get visitation every other weekend, my work schedule does not allow that. I only get one weekend a month off and can not meet the XW to pick the children up on weekends I work. I only get my children one weekend a month as it stands right now. My XW up and moved the kids 4 hours away while we were divorcing so she could be closer to her BF.

You are making this way to complicated. Do you have any court ordered rights to visitation, joint legal custody, etc?

If yes, then tell your overbearing, *itch of an Ex WW to go to hades and that what you do with the children on your visitation is none of her business as long as you take good care of the children and keep them safe. If she continues to make trouble take her azz back to court for modification of custody for interfering in your visitation. One trip like this back to court and she will be more accomodating, I promise.