I can't believe it...
...I just found out tonight...
...my xW is going to do it anyway!

My stepson tells me that my xW will be taking my 2 younger kids to the nudist camp this weekend.
See Nudism... and young children for the initial brief story.

It is a lifetstyle... that scares me...
...to no end... Nudism...shame!

So...
...I have already written (emailed) to the "camp" my non-approval NON-CONSENT...
...in fact... last week I faxed them the divorce decree... property settlement... and the addendum signed and date by xW to bring them up morally... in the Roman Catholic faith...and its precepts!
...I'll be calling them first thing in the morning!

And...
...will shortly email my attorney...
...to file an injunction...
...stopping my xW from taking the kids onto the premises of the "health club"...
...and... if necessary to get a recommendation of an out of state attorney to do the same against the "health club".

What really bothers me... especially...
...is that this is NOT an "optional clothing" "health club"....
...to participate in the activities... volleyball... etc... you must participate nude!
...to swim in either the indoor or outdoor pool...
...you must swim in the nude... clothing is NOT allowed if you do anything!

And to top it off...
...my stepson says that xW and the OM have bought a trailer (within the "health club"'s premises)...
...and plan to MOVE into it permanently!!!
...AND...
...expecting my kids to have visitions (every other weekend)... at this club!!!

pifff... puff.... pifff....

...yes I am venting here!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

------------------

OK...
...catch my breath!....

------------------

Yes...
...starting on my e-mail to my attorney...
...for the injunction...

...and now too...
...for a modification of visitation!
...supervised visitation!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Jim/NSR

<small>[ July 06, 2002, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: NSR ]</small>

Jim:

STRANGE!

It's fine if your X and her OM like that sort of thing, but you definitely should have a say in what your kids are exposed to.

I truly believe that if we all ran around nude, then nudity would NOT be a big deal. But the simple fact is that we don't. So, nudist camps are "unusual" at best. And again, they're YOUR kids, too, so if you're uncomfortable with the idea that they're having to spend time at this place without their clothes, then your xW should make other arrangements when she has visitation.

Sheez!

Well Jim,
If that don't beat all!!! I am sorry your wife is being such a butt.

Can action be taken swiftly? U have joint custody? I am sure you are checking out all angles. Arrrgh...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> to the XW!!!!

Calming down now. Sure don't like it when stupid things are done with children!!

Let us know how we can help you.

take care,
L.

I'm sorry to hear you are in such a icky spot.

I have a great situation for my supervised visitation, and would not consider it any other way.

There are a few things to consider in this. Supervised visitation can mean many things. It can be set up in many ways, and you need to be very careful about how it is done. I had a ton of research done about this (thank God I have a family full of lawyers) and the best way in many situations is to volunteer yourself to do the supervising.

There are private programs set up for this. Places that are usually in larger metro areas, and they have social workers that supervise the visits mostly thru a one way mirror in a playroom setting. Many of these places are geared toward reuniting families to a more "healthy" relationship though, and will make positive interaction reports to the court, and eventually recommend that the supervision end. There is also a fee for this service, the court will determine who will pay or what percent each parent will pay.

Some counties will send one of their social workers directly to the home when the visitation is scheduled to take place. The visit happens, and the social worker just kind of hangs around in the background, sometimes taking notes, and also makes a report to the court with their perspective on the possibility of discontinuing supervised visits.

Now the situation I have set up with our Judge is that I supervise all visits with Scott and the children. Although we do have regular times set up (Sunday 12-5, Wednesday after CCD to 7pm) we see him more often. I keep a little journal of the childrens reaction to the visits, just jot down a few notes before I hit the sack at night. If they were reluctant to go see him and the explaination they gave me, how they interacted with him during the visit, what we did, their reaction if he had a seizure or lost control of his emotions, what they said about the visit in the car home, and their behavior the rest of the evening.

I keep my lawyer up to date with this information, I use a spiral notebook and just xerox the pages, drop them off at his office every few weeks. That way if my darling 4 year old decides to eat the notebook, I will not have lost all my hard work.

I also bring my notebook to 2 of Scott's doctors that he sees monthly, his physiatrist (doctor that specializes in rehabilitation from tramautic injury) and his neurologist. They take a quick peek at what has gone on in the past month and they have written letters to the judge stating that Scott should not be with the children unsupervised.

The Judge thought that my volunteering to supervise the visits was a very good idea, he said that it was making it easier on the county because they didn't have to do extra work, it showed maturity on my part that I was willing to put aside my differences with Scott to spend time with him and the children, and that it was much better for him to hear how my children were reacting to the situation from the person that was their main caregiver.

I know that my situation is much different than yours, Scott is disabled from a terrible accident, and is not sexually involved with someone that I would have to see at a visitation. And the reason for the supervised visitation is mainly that Scott is physically and emotionally unable to care for the children because of his brain injury, but like your situation there is also the morality issue with him because he does have pornography littering his apartment and is now being given depo provera shots because the brain injury has caused a sexual disinhibition which could be putting our children in a dangerous situation.

I seem to have gone on forever, but my main point is for you to consider trying to be the one who is appointed supervisor if they are only granted supervised visitation.

My heart goes out to you.

Elizabeth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

This is just.. just.. Oh NO Jim, for the first time since I have been coming to MB, (about 2 1/2 years all together now) I am shocked speechless !

Surely the court will not allow this to happen. Please let us know what happens.

Thanks 2long, Orchid, justthewife, Bozos_ Deb,

Justgot off the phone with my attorney...
...he is an earlier bird (work 5 AM - 3 PM).

It is unlikely that a judge can be gotten to today...
...so he is seding her and the "nudist camp" letters saying that if my xW goes ahead with this...
...she will be in violation of the Property Settlement Agreement...
...will lose the standard visitation with the kids...
...and be liable for all legal fees.
(sabre rattling letter sent to the "nudist camp")

If she takes the kids there....
...I have full rights to deny her any and all future visitations...
...until the court procedings determine otherwise...
...(probable court presentation on August 2!)
...she would miss out on the July 20th week!

Supervised visitation...
...would be in my state (according to my attorney)...
...maybe with me... or my MIL (she loves me like I was her own!)

I'm still upset... about what my xW is doing...
very upset... about this.

Both my stepson's counselor... recommends for him to not re-affirm his mother's actions...
...and to not go with his mother... (even if it is to "protect"... the younger 2)

My younger son's counselor knows about it also...
...and has likewise suggested that I apply legal efforts to not allow my xW to do this to my younger son... and still younger daughter.

My attorney is confident that the courts will stand in my favor... thank God! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am consdering whether or not I should go to the camp... to see if they show up... come Saturday.
I can, at least, remove (not sure how) the kids from that situation.

I'll keep you all informed...
...and hope this kind of situation isn't going to happen to anyone else.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 06:03 AM: Message edited by: NSR ]</small>

Jim,

Have you been able to get ahold of your xW and let her know that her stubborness over this is likely going to cost her visitation rights? I think your lawyer is 100% correct on how the courts will view this---I'm just wondering what the heck she is thinking. It's a pretty stupid decision on her part, if she's thinking about being involved as a parent...

I'll keep you in my prayers... breathe easy... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim,

First things first: {{{{{Jim}}}}}

I know that you understand I am not utterly, totally and entirely "against" nudism and all that, BUT I am utterly, totally and entirely against what your XW is doing. It is beyond belief!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

While I do not think being nude, in and of itself, is sinful or anything, I absolutely do think that a fully informed PARENT should be making that decision for any child--and in the instance of a divorce situation, BOTH parents need to be in agreement. You have made it clear over and over again that this is NOT something you find anywhere CLOSE to acceptable for your children, and still she persists.

If she wants to make that decision for herself...if her adult boy-toy makes that decision for himself...there is not one thing you can do to stop them and so be it. They are adults and allowed to make fools of themself if they are dead set to do so. But they are NOT allowed to make these kinds of lifestyle judgements about your children without you. Period. End of statement.

I am coming out of retirement to tell you that I am so proud of you. I think you are ABSOLUTELY doing the correct thing, and to encourage you to fight this any and every way that you know how.

It will be clear, after your attorney sends her this letter (and the nudist camp) that if she STILL willfully and wantonly takes the kids to the camp that she is not considering what is best for the children. If she does make the choice and take them, do not traumatize the children even more by freaking out--but most definately, do all your XW the dignity of suffering the consequences of her choice. Don't even second-guess yourself--fight for the supervised visitation!!!

Now, I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV, but if I were you, I would check with your attorney first before going up to the camp and trying to "remove" your kids. That might lead to some sort of disturbing the peace complaint, and that wouldn't be good. HOWEVER, if the camp is in your state/area, it might be an idea to go up there...meet with one of the camp's directors or executive officers...explain the situation face-to-face...and rally his/her support in not allowing the kids on the premises and calling you (if necessary) to come get them. Let your attorney advise you as to the wisdom of this plan, though, Jim. It may be wiser to let police or some other official person do that.

Let us all know how it goes. You and your kids will be in my prayers this weekend.

CJ

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: FaithfulWife ]</small>

Jim,
No advice other than do it legally. Most courts do not look favorably on the father.

My prayers are with you and your family!

Bob

Boy, Jim, you sure do save your vents for the big stuff don't ya???

I think that you have done the right thing. What else could you do other than talk to your XW in a non-threatening manner? Have you done that?

I love to see you post, but hate that it had to be for something like this....

take care,
cleo

Wow Jim, I just can understand how a decent man like you ended up marrying someone so bizarre!

Hi Jim,

You are in my prayers - wish there was something else I could do to help. If there is anything I can do, just remember I'm not to far away, let me know. I did call my Benedictine monk friend at St. Mary's Abbey in Mendham (they run Delbarton High), the community there will be praying for you and your children.

BR

Love and Joy to my friends...
K, FaithfulWife, Bob, cleopatra, weirded out, BrambleRose,

Ok...

My lawyer sent the letter(s) [to xW and 'health club'].

The 'health club' responded back to me...
...they will NOT allow the children onto their premises... without MY consent!
Yahooooooooooooooooo! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

---------------------------

Being nude is not a sin...
...it is a gift...
...to be given to your legitamately married spouse!
...and one of the most beautiful gifts!
AND... let's not forget about the gifts of chastity and modesty...
...true gifts to be preserved whether one marries or stays single!

-------------------

They (the 'health club') had tried to call her several times today...
...but I know they weren't home... took the kids tubing...
...so they left messages on xW's answering machine...
...this... I'm sure I'l hear about!

She will also get the letter tomorrow...
...by special mail...
...and this too should spark a response.

--------------------

I haven't spoken to my xW about this issue...
...to try and keep my stepson from being 'blamed' for devulging her "secret"!
...it's so hard for him to accept the idea of "truth setting one free"...
...but in time... he'll develop... morally... spiritually!
...I love him... even when he left back in November.

--------------------

In the end...
...when she moves into the trailer home they purchased on the 'health club' property...
...she will have to accept supervised visitation.

I don't know if its "fog"...
...or brain deadness...
...that she can't(won't) see the consequences of her actions.
Stupid... yep!
...being involved as a parent... ????

-------------------

Thanks again to all who responded.

Prayers are always welcome...
...from this community of Love.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

and the #1 stupidest thing any ws has ever done is........................................

take kids to a nudist camp.

You win <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

UNBELIEVABLE!!!! I am speachless.

Good to hear!
Glad it didn't have to go any farther than this.

Jim,

Well, I am continually shocked by your exW. I see most of her actions as rebelllious. Something akin to: "Well, I tried to live the 'good, moral' life and I wasn't happy, so let me try all the things I wouldn't even have considered when I was living my 'other' life. Maybe I can find happiness on the wilder side."

If SHE wants to live in a nudist club, that is HER choice, but don't subject minors to HER choices. Adults choosing vs. kids being subjected to this is a whole different thing.

I am glad Round One is settled. But, I am sure she won't just accept this. She'll come up with something else. You can likely expect nothing but more outrageous and self-centered behavior from her.

Keep the faith! RMA

Thanks again to all who replied!

Monday I will make an appointment with my attorney...
...and petition the court for supervised visitations.

1. She has bought the lot (contained on the 'camps' property)
2. She has bought the trailer (that sits on the lot)
3. She is not tied to her former employment... layed off in June
4. The place is a tad closer to boyfriend's work place
5. They have reduced the lease term of their condo... to now be monthly
6. Obviously... they will be moving in their permanently!

I will not allow my children in the camp!...

I'm not sure how to handle next year's "extended parenting time"...
...my attorney will have to give me some advice.

Am I being vindictive?... NO!

Am I protecting my children?... YES!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

Hi NSR,

I commend you on your fight for your children. Can I just say one reason why you should never let your children go. I would never have known this but I moved and have been going through all my property. I found some of my ex's disks. I looked through them. I knew it would be porn but I was shocked to find out it was kiddy porn. Do you know where these children were photographed? At a nudist camp. Not kidding it says so on the pictures. I was so disgusted I was ready to throw up. Three disks full of this.

Please do what ever it takes to keep your children from that place. Please do not think I am against being nude. I just feel that one never knows what demented people are there and taking pictures of these children.

Ok...

The kids are home tonight.

I had the talk with them.

Let them know that in what their mom was doing...
...or planning to do...
...could hurt them very badly.
I didn't get into the details that are found at Nudism...secrets...
...nor would I want to...
...they are only 10 and 13 after all!

Both said that their mom told them the camp is a nudist camp...
...but that it was clothing optional...
...(a lie) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
...that scares me that she felt she had to lie about that part of the camp.

They didn't know that she will be moving in there soon...
...but it is inevitable.

I told them... that (in order to protect them)... I will have to have her visitation changed to be "supervised"...
...and that I would find out for them...
...how that is actually arranged.

My son (13 year old) was clearly relieved he didn't have to go.
My daughter... not understanding the repercusions was a bit disappointed... but then again... she thought it was clothing optional.

My daughter was worried that she would not see her mom as much...
...and I tried to ease her mind...
...we'll try an keep the every other weekend schedule...
...(I still don't know how "extended parenting time"... will work)

My daughter seemed to be upset (not crying... but maybe a bit confused)...
...but that feeling only lasted for about 5 minutes...
...then she was bouncing around... her usual happy self...
...asking for hot chocolate... and to stay up a bit late.
...(yep she seems to take advantage of me sometimes)...
...but her concerns seemed to have been eased.

I did let her know... if she wanted to talk to someone else... like a psychologist (like at school)... she most certain can! She came right back with a 'no'... but I told her she can change her mind.

Now I'll wait for my attorney to let me know when I can come in...
...and discuss the visitation.

-----------

On the stepson front...
...he too is moving back in tomorrow.

He feels really stressed...
...since his mom blames him for 'ratting' her out about the camp/lot/trailer/move...

He's been with her since mid-Novemeber...
...and says moving out will be hard...
...very hard...
...but that she was going to ask him to leave anyway... when she will have moved into the trailer house.

He'll be OK...
...and adjustment (especially with my mother)... will take some time!

Counseling and medication (for his ADHD)... will help!

-------------

A long week...
...but I'll survive too!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

I do admire you for fighting on this matter. It's important and you are to be commended for maintaining such a stance.

Jim

I am so glad that you are there for your kids....they will thank you for it someday. I can't believe that your XW thinks that this nudist colony is okay for kids. What a nut!!??? I bet if the shoe was on the other foot....(do they where shoes in a nudist colony? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) she would be flipping out!!!

Stay strong for your kids....I really hope this doesn't end up being a big fight. Do you think that maybe she might want you to do this? Are the kids getting in the way of her relationship a little????

Thank you for all your encouragement.

It is very clear that my stepson's presence is no longer wanted...
...he hated being in their condo... when they were walking around him... in their lifestyle...
...and after it wore on him...
...I'm sure his disgust surfaced!

--------

I've been told by not just my parents...
...but her mom and her whole family...
...that she obviously feels that the kids are holding back her (new found) lifestyle!

My stepson does say she is upset about losing some aspect of the visitation (with the younger two)...
...but they could be crockadile tears...

...they seemed to have those kinds of tears 3 years ago... when she moved out of the house and went across state lines to live with OM...
...and let my kids stay with me....
...after feigning a custody battle.

---------

One other point...
...as I was searching the web...
...I found 2 pron sites (very clearly porn sites) adverstising this nudist camp.
That may be a common thing... I don't know...
...and it may not be welcomed by the 'camp'...
BUT...
the mear fact that the camp is being adverstised there...
...has put a clear 'signal' in my mind....
...that 'supervised' visitations... ARE A MUST!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

Jim!
Great news !!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Something RMA said about your x living a moral life before and wasn't happy and now is, is the same thing my minister friend said about my x.

My x claimed to be a born again Christian and went from that to running off and living with a married man and exposing the kids to all that, and basically just going 180 degrees the other way from where she had been.

Pahakissa2,
Did you turn those disks into the police? Not so much to punish your x, but to protect those kids.
It may not be the camp itself that is taking the pictures, it may be a sicko who is. Anytime there is nudity, someone will be around with a camera and pictures to sell and someone to buy them.

Jim,

Has anything else been uncovered recently? Curious if you have an update...