Want to hear from a CHRISTIAN who left their spouse

Marriage Builders

I was on this board several years ago when my wife had her FIRST affair (lasted two years with a neighbor). She has since had another one. We have been separated for two years now and have three awesome kids.

My question to the board is how does a Christian reconcile getting a divorce from another Christian solely on the grounds of "I don't love you"? That is the situation with my wife. She tells her frineds that I'm a great guy, awesome dad, really good looking, strong Christian but... she doesn't love me.

Now she is involved in a singles ministry at a big church near my house and is freely dating. How, as a believer, do you reconcile your actions? I am just torn up inside every day over our situation. I can't begin to understand how she thinks it is ok to date. She knows we are divorcing on unscriptural grounds but she seems to have the attitude that God will give her a "do over".

I know it is wrong to not want God to be gracious with anyone. Thankfully, he has been extremely gracious with me in my life. But our choices have consequences, right?

Somehow, my wife seems to think that I'm being emotional about all this and I should just get over it and move on. I pray every day for God to help me do just that but I admit, I still love her deeply and absolutely, positively don't want a divorce. I don't want to force someone to stay in a relationship they don't want to be in either.

All I've asked of my wife is that she leave me alone as much as possible. We have to work together on parenting but that doesn't require me knowing about her life. She finds ways to tell me about her outings with the Singles ministry. Last night, my kids came back from a church event saying they spent the evening with Mommy and "XXX" (a guy who she admitted earlier was hitting on her)! I'm like out of my mind today. We're not even divorced yet and you are introducing our kids to your boyfriends?

Is the grace of God that easy? Can you just cast aside the current relationship and ask for a do over? I honestly want to hear from others who can relate to her side of things. It just blows my mind and I can't understand it in any way but I want to understand. I have read the Scriptures over and over on marriage and divorce and the only option I see for her is to remain single or remarry me. Am I missing the grace of God here? Somebody set me straight. I would love to understand that I'm wrong so I could at least face her every day without hating what she is doing.

Thanks for listening,

Wish I had some words of wisdom to share. My H is (or at least said he was ) a christian too, and left for another woman. Two days after he left me he took our 2 boys out to dinner, with her. The next weekend he took the boys to play ball with her 2 kids. My older son has basically quit seeing him ever since. The younger son occasionally sees dad, but the relationship is cery strained. What she is doing is NOT ok. She will know that some day. She has become too lazy, and too selfish to work on her relationship with you, so she looks elsewhere.
How do they justify it? I don't know. My H even said "I have all ready asked God to forgive me, and he has" but - I replied - you have NOT repented. You have to ask forgiveness, and then turn from the sin. You are not doing that. You live with her. At that point he became angry, said that his sin was no different from anyone elses, blah blah blah.
Anyway, I am not helping, but know that you are not alone.
A good friend of mine keeps telling me to remember that this is only "sin for a season". Sometimes, thinking of that helps.

2 words: SEARED CONSCIENCE.
Your wife has one.
I pray you find healing from her selfishness.
hlT

Why would people think it is God's will to fly airplanes into tall buildings?

My H told me that he didn't think it was wrong of him to have an A with a married woman. After all, I didn't care for him, and her H didn't care for her.

Whatever the reason, I don't think you can convince her that what she is doing is wrong. She might think that she made a mistake in marrying you and now God is giving her a second chance.

I've gotten advice by calling Harley's radio show. I doubt our M has a chance of surviving but Harley has gotten me to discussing the core issue -- not an A but a lack of care. Harley might have some ideas for you on how to deal with your W.

I'm an ecletic Christian, the type that doesn't qualify for many people. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

But here's my take... God's grace "passeth all understanding" Not only is it limitless, it is also beyond our ken. I don't think it's really about forgiving us specific earthly misdeeds, though that's a part of it.

The way I see God's Grace working here on earth is as part of the Divine Flow. Your wife will suffer conseqences for her behavior whether you get to know about it or not. Throught the consquences (punishment) she will hopefully learn and grow. You may or may not reap the benefit of that growth.

Unfortunately, Christians, Jews and others leave spouses all the time. Dr. Harley even says that being a Christian is no proof agianst an affair.

A question is why the heck your Church is allowing a not-yet-divorced woman to run the singles group!

I don't know if this helps or not. But know that there is a plan for you. That the Divine Spirit resides within you and if you listen closely without your own thoughts and desires interfering, it will speak to you and give you the answers.

Hmm. I guess I feel most comfortable with the Holy Ghost. I love having a triumverate God.

I was not a strong believer until my husband's affair. Now I pray constantly for him to come to his senses and for reconcilliation. I asked my husband if I could pray outloud for both of us. He said no because we would not be praying for the same thing. He asked me "how do you know that God even wants me to be married to you?" I know because he brought us together and allowed us to marry. God is against divorce. But, he thinks that since God brought another woman into his life (who in his opinion at the moment is better than me) then God wants my husband to be with her instead. I think my husband KNOWS that it is wrong but is just trying to justify it.

You are not alone in this. Stay faithfull.

firefly

don't,

You aren't really getting answers from the people that you were seeking, I am sorry to say those are the people that are not on this board, they are selfish and looking out for themselves, revisioning the marriage so that it fits the needs that they have at this time.

I stuggled with this same thing for a very long time, I searched for answers, I searched scriptures. It was hard coming to grips with not being able to stop the divorce. Natural consequences keep kicking my xH in the butt, do I get satisfaction from it? Not really, I feel sorry for him and where it is his life is at at this time. I have come out a stronger, healthier and happier person with a much closer relationship with God!!!!

I kept wanting answers though, how did my H allow this to happen to us, I asked him and he can't answer it, for a long time though I thought that it was that he wouldn't. I did find a post that helped me to understand how it happened, it gave me much peace and that was what it was I really wanted, peace!!!!

I hope that you may find the peace from reading the post that I did.

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=010537

Thanks everyone for the comments. I really wish I could understand her better. She seems to have a genuine faith but a complete lack of self control or conscience when it comes to men. It just bothers me that she seems to blame me for not "handling" this well.

She thinks it is my fault that I am emotional about our divorce and her dating. "It's been four years" (since my first affair) is the comment I get all the time and we've been separated for almost two years. You should be over this. However, that doesn't take into consideration that twice in the past year she has asked me to stop the divorce proceeding because she had doubts about whether it was the right thing to do (once it happened while she was still sleeping with another guy I later found out).

Why is it that the price I'm expected to pay for being kicked to the curb is to be a pleasant friend? To have to remain on friendly terms with her so she can tell me daily about her life? I have asked her several times over the past year to just leave me alone and talk to me only about the kids but she never respects that. According to her, all of her friends think I'm responsible for not moving on.

Someone mentioned about what kind of church would let someone like her be in leadership of a singles ministry. The answer is a very large and Godly church with the most active Singles ministry in the metro area I live in. I know their church doctrine says they won't marry people that are divorced like my wife. However, there are so many divorcee's in their singles ministry that it appears that everyone just accepts whatever comes through the door. I clearly think the church should love everyone but I also think they should teach the singles that in a large group (several hundred) there are obviously some that are unscripturally divorced and they are not free to date and should consider reconcilliation. On many occassions I have drafted an anonymous email to her pastor to say that specifically but I feel like that would be controlling. I don't want to play the Holy Spirit in her life but boy would I like to sit down with her pastor one day and let him know the damage that has been wrought!

Thanks again everyone for the comments. This has been a crisis couple weeks for me and I really need some support to stay on track.

daybreak - That link was a great post, it explains it perfectly. My WH, OW, and I are all Christians, and I think that post shows why the strange thoughts and behaviors that go on. Thanks for remembering it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dontwantadivorce:
Why is it that the price I'm expected to pay for being kicked to the curb is to be a pleasant friend? To have to remain on friendly terms with her so she can tell me daily about her life? I have asked her several times over the past year to just leave me alone and talk to me only about the kids but she never respects that. According to her, all of her friends think I'm responsible for not moving on.<hr /></blockquote>You are resposible for enforcing your boundaries. You have to find a way to make it impossible for her to talk to you about her life and share information you don't want to hear.

What you need is a Plan B. It probably won't stop the divorce at this stage (but who knows), but it will limit your exposure to her and make clear that you are not going to meet her needs for converstion and whatever else if you two are not in a marriage together. Do you post on the Plan A/Plan B board in the Infidelity area? Maybe you could get some help there-also on the Just Found Out board. Even though you haven't just found out, they brainstorm ways to limit contact in Plan B all the time on that board so you can get lots of good ideas there. In fact, this thread

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=003712

may give you a place to post the portion of your post I quoted above and ask for help.

As far as what she says her friends say, you don't have to refute what they say. You don't have to argue her around to your way of thinking. You just need to quit listening to her. After all, that would be an excellent way of moving on.

[ November 02, 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: elspeth ]

seems to be a double post.

[ November 02, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: elspeth ]

My opinion is that there is not forgiveness without atonement or reparation. If you commit a sin, break a covenant that was made with God and you go back and repeatedly commit the same sin over and over, there PROBABLY is not forgiveness from God. I say PROBABLY because none of us can truely understand God, but we follow his commandments and do the best we can.

There is no reengineering God's word to suit ourselves. Making a convenant with God for life is as serious as it gets. You don't break it because you don't feel like being responsible for it anymore.

If the Bible's word is true and I know it is; The wages of sin is death. More likely spiritual death, but I believe that in your case as in mine, we suffer for WS's sin now, but they will suffer for it later, and then much more so after death, unless true repentance comes. I am Catholic and still married, nightly my WW commits adultery with one and possibly two OM. She has not filled for divorce yet every Sunday she receives communion. A sacrament that is given only to those free from sin. We all sin, but to be pure for communion, we ask for forgiveness and make REPARATION for our sins, promising not to do it again. I don't know how or when or where my WW will experience God's wrath, but she eventually will with this current life style.

My pain and punishment is for not doing a good job meeting WW's emotional needs, never-the-less, I am not responsible for her infidelity, she is and so it is with you WW.

May God have mercy on us all and wrongs be made right in God's time.

You have asked some very difficult questions dwad, and there are no definitive answers because no one can say with certainty exactly who God is, or what we should do. Folks will speak with with "authority" but no one actually knows anything for sure, and on no issue there will there be consensus in a Christian community, marital doctrine, grace, sin, remarriage etc. is no different in this regard. The point being, you can choose to move forward and focus on choices you can make.....or you can look backward and get stuck trying to make what happened fit into what you choose to believe. You can't change history, nor do you have the slightest control over anyone's (except yourself) choices...the first thing you might consider is to make peace with those two things.

Once you have done that, now you can focus on your own life and choices. What I see you doing is focusing on your wifes life and her choices, and why is she doing what she is doing. That is the route to depression, and insures you will neglect your own life which will impact your kids, and everyone else (friends, family, co-workers, etc.). So next step is to shift perspective, and tally up your choices...the list of good choices is pretty standard.

1. Identify your contribution to the marital failure, and change what you think needs changeing.

2. Commit to not having conflict with w (takes two to tango), easier said than done, I know. But limiting contact as much as possible, and developing selective "deafness" will help a lot.

3. Take care of yourself....ie physical fittness issues, dietary issues, stop smoking, etc. etc.

4. Take up some kind of new activity...physical or mental. A sport, yoga, chess club, take a gardening class, volunteer organization, fund raiser....whatever. Something having nothing in common with wife, and not requiring a lot of committment (such as going back to college or some such).

5. Go ahead and find a good Bible study, mentoring, read/think/discuss Christian issues.

6. And give the angst and uncertain future to God. He can handle the pain and disorientation, and lift those burdens from you so you can continue on.

Let some time pass while you gain your bearings, and decide what to do without all the "drama" and emotional upheaval. Your wife is right about one thing, time does make a difference, and if one continues to obsess and manipulate (that is what trying to guilt someone is about, manipulation), you have the problem. You want your life to be what you want it to be, and you are trying to make your wife comply any way you can...stop. Right or wrong, it is her life too, and we all are empowered to live it any way we choose (of course we will experience the consequences of our choices).

Now back to your original question, why do Christians leave spouses....well, that implies Christians are any different than the rest of the human race. Of course they are not, Christians leave marriages for the same reasons (good and bad) anyone else leaves marriages...and apparently at the same rates according to surveys of such things. Believeing in God, and choosing divorce are not incompatible behaviours. Believeing in God and believeing there is not life after death would be an example of irreconileable difference. Regardless of how your wife is communicateing her position to you, the basic message she is saying is that she feels marriage is a choice, and that one can leave a marriage as well as choose a marriage. I don't want to start a debate here on what exactly is marriage, but when these debates come up no one is able to actually define what it is, which makes discussions about this more difficult. But suffice to say at the least we all agree it means living in intimacy with someone, meeting each other EN's, sharing resources, and usually fidelity (I have no idea how "open" marriage or swingers fit into this....are they actually married? who knows), and a legal contract (marriage license). All of these things are clearly choices, one can end the legal contract with a divorce decree...and one can withdraw a committment to fidelity, seperate resources, move away from intimacy (either actually apart, or even still sharing domicile), stop meeting EN's...these are choices, and thusly ends the marriage.

There are those who maintain these are only secular choices, and that somehow one is still actually "married". That does not seem to be true. The Bible has a body of Scripture that in toto clearly indicates divorce is a recognizable condition, regardless of whether one "should" divorce. When is one "divorced", well, I am not sure myself, today we kinda default to the legal system, but that is really only the contractural dissolution. Biblically it seems to be when you tell your spouse, you divorce them, and generally seems to include leaveing the intimate presence of this person. This is the argument about seperation. Clearly God is not bound by our secular divorce laws, He knows our hearts and intent. I suspect divorce occurs pretty much when at least one party (could be both) acknowledges they are no longer committed to living in a marital condition with another....and acts accordingly. We have freewill, and it makes no sense to conclude anything else, such as a freewill choice to "marry", precludes a "freewill" choice to leave. Such would simply make one human being the property of another, bound against their will....forever tainted if they won't subject themself.

That flies in the face of grace, and our sinful nature. We cannot help but sin, but we are forgiven, and restored....not restored only if we agree to someone elses desire to hold us, but restored period. There are all sorts of wrinkles to this about remorse, forgiveness, restitution, redeption, etc. But the bottom line is all sin is forgiveable, and all people can be restored. How this all plays out in divorce, is a source of great controversy. The controller mentalities try to link redemption to not divorceing (or returning to original spouse), or if not, then can't remarry. This is nonsensical, cause it implies God only sanctifies first marriages, so all second marriages (except re the death of a spouse) are sinful, which is a ludicrous position, and completely obviates forgiveness and restoration as a gift. If one is restored, than one is free to make the same kinds of choices one could make before sinning....whether that be to once again steal something (and sin), or enter a marriage again (and live it on Christian terms), or lead a singles ministry etc.

Your wife seems to consider herself divorced from you, and told you this. You seem unwilling to accept that. I agree that her not seeking the legal papers weakens her "intent", and making reconcilliation suggestions to you also weakens intent. Only God really knows what her intent is, and whether you two are "divorced". If you two are still married, then obviously she is committing regular adultery, and should not be in any church leadership position, and is living in a continuous state of outright rebellion (as opposed to our normal sinful state as just being human and struggling daily). Even if you are "divorced" she is still guilty of fornication (I think that is the word) and pornea (inappropriate sexual conduct when single essentially)....but not adultery. I cannot possibly tell you how to sort this all out, except to pray for discernment, and to recognize you do have both normal grounds for divorce, that being adultery, and abandonment. IMO (as in what I would do), one acknowledges the reality of the circumnstance (that the marial bonds are broken), go ahead and validate that with our social means (divorce decree), and refuse to act in any "marital" way (no sex, or living together as man and wife etc.). That does not preclude holding yourself willing to reconcille should she decide to join you in such an effort, it just clarifies the current truth, and releases you from the emotional/psychological damage you are experienceing, and lets you start the personal healing process. However, when and if you start exploring other relationships (or she does), and then make a marital committment with another, you are done, there is no going back....if you do, you sin against your new spouse...and then are in the same spiritual turmoil as your wife is now.

While forgiveness is a given, it isn't that simple. The danger is not that somehow God will withold forgiveness, but that if you pervert Christian belief by using this as a get out of jail free card, carte blanc to do whatever you please, you increase the risk you will not be saved, not as a punishment....but because your intent to believe will not be true. It is hard to imagine a legitimate leap of faith being made, yet also think one can deliberately choose sin because God will forgive me anyways. That is the reason Christians should look long and hard at what they do, and why they are doing it....and there focus should not be on choosing sin, but on resisting sin (even if they fail). Marriage is difficult, cause it involves two people and independent freewill actions which may clash, and lead to a spiritual crisis (am I married only as a duty, an absolute? or does it need to be a safe/healthy/nurturing/joyous place I want to be in?). That is a whole lot different than choosing addictive behaviour (drugs, alcohol, gambling)over a spouse....or abusing/neglecting a spouse, or refusing to give children to a spouse. IMO a part of marital doctrine is simply God's statement about how marriage should look, and feel, and if it isn't those things something needs to be done. If the issues are irreconcileable, then I don't think God's will is served by living "legalistically" and expecting Him to "fix" whatever. Yes God can do anything, but that doesn't mean he is going to do what we want just cause we think He should. But I do think God expects us to look long and hard at ourselves, and our marriages, not just capriciously or dysfunctionally end them......or enter they either for that matter. People often make marriages they should not have, and the only thing they can do is end them.

Lastly dwad, your post had a sort of judgemental tone re your wifes walk with God, the "do over" stuff, etc. She is correct she will be forgiven, and she can continue on with her life....how that all works out is between her and God, and not you. You can only walk your own walk, be sure that is what you are doing. Good luck.

[ November 02, 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]

dontwantadivorce,

I didn't see it, maybe you said it already...

But have you had counsel with the minister or spiritual counselor of your church over these questions of yours?

Seems that would be the person to ask these questions of.

Sufdb,

Thank you for a very meaningful response. I know that there is some judgmentalism in my tone. I freely admit I want someone to rebuke her or challenge her to live a consistent life. I know that it is not my job to play God in her life and tell her what she should and should not feel. However, I find myself entangled in these situations with her where she drops information on me regularly about guys she is meeting and I'm just so wounded, I'm at a loss as to how to handle.

I want to release her. I know that I can't control her and any attempts at control are sinful. I have to accept her choices and move on but I'm honestly struggling with that each day. I guess that is why I posted because I can't seem to get past how she justifies what a close walk she has with God but she is dating while still married and has had two sexual relationships. It is because of this that I have started to force the divorce issue since she seems to be in no hurry. However, she is now using that to basically say "see, its 50/50, you want this divorce". That is just NOT true. She knows that I'm divorcing her because I don't want to be married to someone who sleeps with and dates other men whle married. If she would commit to just not date, I would stay married (and separated if need be), indefinitely.

I've basically followed your 6 steps to change. I'm involved in a new church, help lead the High School ministry, work out regulary, practice a hobby (fishing)... If I didn't have kids and didn't have to face my wife every day, I think I'd pretty much be hitting life on all cylinders.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted. I really needed this outlet! God has used this to help me get centered and settled again.

With gratitude,
dwad

You getting a divorce is not wrong. Your wife is commiting A and continues to commit it. Second, You need to write a letter to the church and inform them of the situation. (Matt. 18 principle) She is a black eye to Christianity. If it is a true church following the word, they will meet with her and if she continues, they will ask her to leave the church. Your action is not considered revenge but biblical principle that needs to be followed. Your wife is talking like she is a christian but her actions show the opposite.

Don'tWantDivorce,

I skimmed some of the replies, but am going to reply specifically to your first post. I also am divorced and my husband is/was a strong Christian man who said things like, "God wants me happy" and who justified the divorce (there was no adultery by either of us) by saying "God will forgive me."

First of all, THE ONLY reason divorce is a permissible thing is because of the HARDNESS of people's hearts. This is what Moses tells the people in Deuteronomy. It has never been and will never be God's will. The ONLY reason divorces happen is becuase it is a concession to other sins that have damaged people (adultery, abuse, etc).

There are ONLY two specific things in the Bible where it says that a spouse is "not bound" in the marriage... one is unrepentive sexual sin ("marital unfaithfulness") and the other is if a nonBelieve wants to leave the marrige. In both instances, the Bible says that the Believing spouse/betrayed spouse is "not bound" although it is clear that in neither instances, is divorce urged or mandated. God's perfect will is still not divorce. His perfect will is that a person stops committing adultery and that the nonBeliever becomes a Believer and wants to stay married to their Christian spouse!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />My question to the board is how does a Christian reconcile getting a divorce from another Christian solely on the grounds of "I don't love you"?<hr /></blockquote>It can't be "reconciled." She might justify it in her own eyes and to others, but God does not bless it in any way, shape, or form. She is accountable before him for her actions and it does not matter if everyone in the world accepts her reasoning. God's Word does NOT change ever. He "hates" divorce and again, as mentioned above, not loving someone is not sufficient grounds for divorce... merely because when vows where said, they were public and before God, and they were promises to love "til death."

Now, to the world, anything goes as far as reasons for divorce. And to say otherwise, it to be "judgemental." Your wife is believing lies of the world (that not loving you is okay grounds for divorce).

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Now she is involved in a singles ministry at a big church near my house and is freely dating.<hr /></blockquote>This is truly a sad commentary on the church as a whole. Because divorce is so prevalant today, many churches have taken a no-involvement approach vs. saving marriages and disciplining Christians.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I can't begin to understand how she thinks it is ok to date.<hr /></blockquote>She is both deceived (by Satan) and is also deceiving herself. It is NOT okay for her to date while still married to you. It is also not okay for her to date after divorcing you. Her options are to stay single or reconcile with you (1 Cor) because she does not have grounds for divorce (you are a Believer wanting the marriage and you are not committing adultery... these are the only two things-- adultery and a nonbeliever leaving-- that break a marrige bond).

<blockquote>quote:<hr />She knows we are divorcing on unscriptural grounds but she seems to have the attitude that God will give her a "do over".<hr /></blockquote>My husband had the same mindset saying that "God will forgive me." But you don't go murder someone and say, "God will forgive me" or give me a "do over." You do not willingly and knowingly do something when you know it is wrong.

Take David in the Bible. He knew adultery was wrong. He committed it anyways. It led to greater sins, including murder. Here was a man who'd led a godly life since a child, and it was a full year before Nathan confronted him with his sin and he finally repented! For a whole year, he justified and did not repent of his sin. Once he did, his sorrow was very great. And the consequences were massive... his baby with Bathsheba died as a direct result of the adultery, all of his sons rebelled against him and almost all of them died, his daughter was raped, his son Soloman was a good king but at the end of his life, he turned away from God because of other women (nonBelievers). So, YES, the consequences are great and no amount of justifying can diminish whatever consequences come.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />But our choices have consequences, right?<hr /></blockquote>YES!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Somehow, my wife seems to think that I'm being emotional about all this and I should just get over it and move on.<hr /></blockquote>This is typical of how most people see things. "Move on." Probably, in her mind, your "moving on" will relieve her of guilt. Whenever you express love or talk about the marriage, etc... it causes her guilt that she does not want to deal with.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I pray every day for God to help me do just that but I admit, I still love her deeply and absolutely, positively don't want a divorce. I don't want to force someone to stay in a relationship they don't want to be in either.<hr /></blockquote>Keep praying! You can't force her to stay but you are in NO WAY wrong or misguided for loving your wife!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Is the grace of God that easy?<hr /></blockquote>No!
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Can you just cast aside the current relationship and ask for a do over?<hr /></blockquote>No!

[quote}I have read the Scriptures over and over on marriage and divorce and the only option I see for her is to remain single or remarry me. Am I missing the grace of God here?[/quote]

No, you are not missing the grace of God. The grace of God is not this blanket permission for us to sin or to hurt others. Not only that, but one of the worst things is that your wife is a living, walking testimony of divorce being okay! She is a Christian woman leading a life that is not one of obedience to God. This is one of the reasons why God hates our sin. When we call ourselves Christians but yet we don't obey Him and we mock His Word (do things that we know are wrong and think we can somehow get "do overs), this misleads people and misrepresents God.

I am sorry for all that has gone on in your marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> God will always hate divorce and it will always be something that is only permissible because of other sins that have hardened a person's heart. Even when a spouse divorces a cheating partner, that cheating partner's heart is hardened. IF both people were obeying God and loving their spouses, there would be no reason or need for divorce.

Your wife does not have Biblical grounds for divorce, and it may appear right now as if she is "getting away with it" but I guarantee, there will be consequences... probably including the failure of her future relationships (since they are being born out of betrayal) and problems with your children (who might someday disrespect her, etc). She might lose you and someday really regret it. Someone here mentioned that sin lasts a season, and this is very true.

(sorry so long!)

LoveMyX has covered it all. I agree completely. Please read carefully and understand what is being shared with you. Your wife is making an effort to justify her behavior. IMO, LoveMyX covered marriage from a Biblical stand point and is right on target. My prayers are with you.

don't,
My x-wife, who was a borne again Christian in high school and lived in a "Christian House" in college had an affair and after 5-6 attempts at reconciliation, I gave up and refiled the D papers she had started and we had stopped on the last reconciliation attempt.

In speaking with a minister, who had talked with my w, he said that for all her life my x had tried to live the right way, do the right thing, but for some reason, she wasn't happy.

When the om came into the picture and promised to improve her life, she accepted it and turned her back on the Christian life. So all she could see was the Christian life hadn't brought her happiness, but this new wild life could and did.

Unfortunetly it was only temporary. There marriage lasted 16 months with him going back to his x-wife.

She is slowly returning to "normal." She hasn't returned to church on a regular basis and I have complained to her about not taking the kids to church when she has them and she now does this intermintently.

She says that God made om leave her so she could see what I went through(although comparing 20 years to 2 years doesn't seem quite right to me!).

She says that the Lord has forgiven her. This after saying that God doesn't answer prayers, he is just there for the after life.

She too told me to just get over it and start dating, when we were married. I just did the best I could to keep my faith, but counseled with a minister friend alot.

One of the things that helped me understand the Christian and divorce was to attend a seminar at another church and it helped me heal. I'm still working on the forgiveness part though. She constantly does things that anger me.

Hang in!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Thanks everyone for the comments. I really wish I could understand her better. She seems to have a genuine faith but a complete lack of self control or conscience when it comes to men. It just bothers me that she seems to blame me for not "handling" this well. <hr /></blockquote>dontwantadivorce - Adam and Eve also had a genuine faith, but sin can be blinding. It causes what is called around here "the fog."

Another thing to consider is the parable of the Wheat and the Tares. There are many who claim to be Christians, but are not.

dontwantadivorce, the choice to divorce or not to divorce is yours. God has given you that "right" if you cannot endure any longer. But, as one who thought his wife was hopelessly lost, it CAN change. God is in the business of changing people's lives. But it also requires confrontation of willful sin. In this, the church your wife is attending is abetting her sin and NOT following God's commands. So she is left with the idea that what she is doing is okay.

As for forgiveness, God requires repentance and a turning away from sin for Him to forgive. Her sin, while it definitely involves and hurts you, is first and foremost a sin against God.

The passage that should, but obviously doesn't, scare the "willies" out of her is God's clear and demonstrative statement about the types of unrepentant people who will NOT be in heaven.

The key for her, for you, for me, and for all who have Christ, is to choose to be humbly obedient to God's teaching and commands. To do otherwise is to enthrone Satan as sovereign of our lives.

God bless. I give you my personal life verse that sustained me through the darkest times....Philippians 4:13. I never had enough strength, but Christ did!

Thanks again to everyone for the comments. I am continuing to pursue the divorce since she is not willing to remain faithful (my only requirement to stay married).

I have honestly surprised myself these last few weeks (I shouldn't be surprised by anything these days). I figured I was coping well with things and pretty much accepted the divorce. However, I'm back in the anger phase where now that the divorce is REALLY going to happen, I realize that I have been hanging on to more hope of reconciliation than I acknowledged to myself. I just don't want a divorce. I want to be full time dad! I love my wife and want to walk beside her in life...

So its back to doing the necessary grieving and accepting work (again). I hate that this process is taking so long but I know my focus needs to change from what is happening in her life to what God is doing in my life.

Thanks again to everyone for the insights and encouragement. God is faithful and will get me through. I don't know what God will do with my wife for her choices but I'm going to work on letting Him have her for his bidding.

I'll share here an insight I gained this week on the subject to encourage others. I guess that I have presented my wife to God a million times the last few years as a "sacrifice", much like Abraham did with Isaac. However, in the back of my mind, I was counting on God supplying a ram from the thicket before she was literally gone. It is a much different thing to let go when you expect it to not return than it is to let go when you think God is just going to find a way to give it back to you. Wow, is this much harder than I thought! What if my letting go means that God will take her life on a different path? What if she ultimately repents (really repents) but it is after she has married another? I need to love and trust God in all these outcomes, not just the one I want.

I pray that I will be able to walk this path and pray for the others out there on the same path that you and I would know the character of God in such a way that we can "risk" trusting your future to Him, even if it is not the future we desire.

Your friend,
George

dontwantadivorce,

--My question to the board is how does a Christian reconcile getting a divorce from another Christian solely on the grounds of "I don't love you"? --

TR- You push the conviction aside--bury it under a new relationship--

--Now she is involved in a singles ministry at a big church near my house and is freely dating.--

TR- have you contacted the church leaders about this?? if not--You need to--let them know what is going on--and that your divorce is not yet final-
I realize some churches will ignore this--but some won't--if her's does--that says a lot about the type of church she's attending---I know the churches I attended wouldn't even allow a seperated person join the singles ministry--

--How, as a believer, do you reconcile your actions? --

TR- Again--you push the conviction aside--

However, I'm back in the anger phase where now that the divorce is REALLY going to happen,
Making decisions while angry is a POOR way to do it.

I just don't want a divorce.
Then why get one?

I love my wife and want to walk beside her in life
Then why get a divorce? Why not wait until you WANT one and not feel you need one?

DWAD,

You probably don't want to hear this, and maybe some others have already said it, but it appears you cannot stop this DV from happening. Even if you can drag it out legally, your WW has 'divorced' you from her life.

As others have said, you can end your marriage w/o guilt due to her infidelity. God is not going to hold this against you. I was told by my priest nearly a year ago to expect my marriage to end. I didn't want to believe it either, but now I see it is inevitable.

I used to feel guilty in the eyes of God, but I now know I was deceived-my H never told me of his mental illness. My priest knew and stressed during our pre-marital discussions that we disclose things like this. H never did. Also, my H feels that he never had a 'real affair'. He slept w/OW many nights while we were physically separated, but claims no SF occurred <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You can imagine the laughs I get over that one.

I also asked my priest if H had totally lost his faith to be doing things like this. He said H's faith never was that strong. H uses it when he wants and to his benefit.

My XSIL did the same. She had PA, went to confession, and told my BIL that God had forgiven her and he should too. But she added that she would continue doing what she wanted. I think she felt as long as she went to confession each time after, the slate was clean-a common misconception of Catholics.

My H had the nerve to receive communion at our daughter's First Communion ceremony last spring. I'm sure he never truly confessed his sins prior, and even if he did, he continued contact w/OW.

I know I have not really helped, but I just wanted to give you examples of others who act like your WW and are totally comfortable w/themselves. I guess its not for us to judge, 'someone else' will do that someday. Just continue living your life the right way and being a good dad. You will get your reward someday, and they will get what they deserve.

I used to feel guilty in the eyes of God, but I now know I was deceived-my H never told me of his mental illness. My priest knew
And the priest didn't tell you? He still married you?
You still use this guy for your "spiritual" guidance?

The only sin in which we are responsible for another's actions is in the case of adultery. The responsibility here lies with your wife.

According to God's Word, the only time divorce is "permitted" is because of unrepentant adultery and abandonment of an unbelieving spouse. I think both are the case in your situation. With that said, she therefore is responsible for the adulteries that will occur because of her actions-both in her remarriage and yours.

My heart breaks for you in this situation. She has chosen a path that offers nothing but heart break for all those involved.

Where did this "do over" idea come from? Nowhere in God's Word does He ever say His aim is to make us "happy." He wants to make us more Christ-like.

God tells us in James to be thankful in all situations. That is so very difficult. How can one be thankful for a husband who cares for noone but himself? How can one be thankful for a husband who chose to have sex with anyone but his wife? How can one be thankful for in laws who so destroyed their son's life in order to satisfy their own needs and desires? How can one be thankful to be treated as either invisible or dog poop stuck to the bottom of a shoe? Knowledge and acceptance by a Heavenly Father who loves us more than can be imagined is the only way...the only way.

Romans 8;28 tells us that "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose." When God says all He means all. It's just getting through situations in order to see what good comes. God's ways aren't our ways.

Life isn't about "us" it's about our relationship with God. He isn't there just for us, we're here for Him. He loves us more than we can begin to imagine and His guidance is for our good.

I too am coming to the end of my marriage. I rest assured that I endured 20 years of what very few would have be able to stand. The thing about it is I didn't do it in my own strength. That would not be possible.

The best way to be discouraged is to look around...it's best to look up.

The only sin in which we are responsible for another's actions is in the case of adultery. The responsibility here lies with your wife.
Your example is very mixed up.

How is he responsible for his wifes actions if the responsibility lies with his wife?

Please carefully re-read my post. I never said that HE would be responsibile, quite the contrary. It is HER responsibility.

I hear you all and I share in your pain. In my situation I have been told by my counselor, my pastor, my lawyer, our friends and church, and the court clerk that she has no grounds for D. That's the problem with no-fault divorce states, you don't even need a reason. What should have been confined to a church/counseling setting has been brought into a civil court. I feel badly about that because the world doesn't need to see our dirty laundry. If I was an abuser or adulterer I could see her point, but even if those things were true I would expect a chance to to be informed before being hauled to the court.

As a Christian, I feel it's my responsibility to fight her action with all I'm worth, and believe you me it's getting expensive. But I know that God will honor my efforts and some day I will understand it all.

I would encourage all Christians here to persevere and remember our fight is not against flesh and blood. Check out John 16:33 and God bless!

JPH,
I stand corrected.

However,
According to God's Word, the only time divorce is "permitted" is because of unrepentant adultery and abandonment of an unbelieving spouse.
Is it? How about Deut. 24.1?

I think both are the case in your situation
Agreed.

With that said, she therefore is responsible for the adulteries that will occur because of her actions-both in her remarriage and yours.
She is responsible for her OWN adultery, no one elses.

She is guilty of adultery in her own remarriage.
How is she responsible for him getting married again?

Chris,

The reason I'm pursuing a divorce, even though I don't want one is that it is clear that she wants to date others and I think it is wrong for me to stay in a situation with ongoing adultery (be it emotional or physical). She knows that I'd stay married indefinitely if she would commit to not dating anyone. That is my only requirement for her right now and one she is not willing to abide by.

Like I said before, she's made her choices for now and I'm working on accepting them. My initial post was part of me trying to understand. I guess I realized that I'm not going to understand her perspective. I don't know what God is going to do with her but I have to let go and trust Him and stop thinking about what she is and isn't doing (which is REALLY hard for me). I love her with all my heart and she tells me that I am a great man (heart after God, a strong provider, a loving father, handsome...) but she just doesn't "love me". How can you argue with that? I can't and I'm trying not to anymore. At one point, I thought if she experienced other relationships (which she has over the past few years), she might appreciate what she has at home but that has not happened.

It's time to move on, whether I want it or not. I'm just enabling her to sin by staying married and tearing my own heart out knowing that the person I'm married to is out meeting and dating others.

Why not do Plan B?
That way you are not in her life. It eases the stress on you. And you can always divorce when you WANT it, not when you feel you need to.

Plan B makes it a lot easier.

Chris,
No I don't seek counsel from this priest anymore. And between his bad advice and the Catholic church's handling of the sexual abuse situation, it has made it difficult for me to trust in the church altogether.

I still have a strong faith in God and it annoys me that others judge me and other people who do not attend church regularly when many of us feel betrayed by organized religion in general. And its not just the Catholics, I see similar crap in many other Christian denominations. So many are hypocrites and just out for making money off of the parishoners.

HPK,
You said "As a Christian, I feel it's my responsibility to fight her action with all I'm worth". You act as if this is a battle of good vs. evil and maybe it is, but is it one really worth fighting? You cannot force someone to love you and fighting their actions will only force them to want out even more. Why put all your effort and money into it? Didn't someone earlier post that to find true love, we must give it wings?

DWAD,
Stop worrying about whether your WW will find the "Grace of God". You are not responsible for "saving" her, she is. Yes, maybe your DVing her will relieve her of guilt, something she wants, but does it really matter? Sinners can justify anything if they want to. Look at pedophiles-they claim to "love" their victims and that is why they have sex w/them. They claim to be showing love, not molestation, control, or criminal activity. Sick, huh?

Why not do Plan B?
That way you are not in her life. It eases the stress on you. And you can always divorce when you WANT it.
Plan B makes it a lot easier.

Chris,
She is not responsible for him getting married again (surely you didn't think that response through), she is responsible for the adultery that will occur because of that remarriage.

Deut 24:1 what do you think unclean is?

Read Matthew 5:31 Matt 19:9 Luke 16:18 and
1 Cor 7:14-on

Jesus had much to say about divorce and remarriage. The Pharisees tried to trip Him up on these issues in order to put Him to death.

she is responsible for the adultery that will occur because of that remarriage.
No, she is not. How do you figure someone else can make you sin?

Deut 24:1 what do you think unclean is?
It doesn't say.

Chris,
Obviously you didn't read the scripture references.

yeah, I did. Show me where he is committing adultery and it is his ex's fault.

Luke 16:18
Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery

Matthew 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery

Matthew 5:31-
And it was said, "Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce" but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of adultery makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

I don't know how much plainer it can get.

Your references have nothing to do with his wife making him commit adultery. None of your references even remotely show that.

Luke 16:18
Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery
So remarriage ALWAYS results in adultery? Regardless of the circumstances of the divorce? And even this is adultery, how is his wife making him remarry (as I asked before)?

Matthew 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery
Okay, so he not committing adultery according to this.

Matthew 5:31-
And it was said, "Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce"
So he divorces his wife.

but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of adultery makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Your reference clearly does not fit in this situation. His wife had an affair. Whoever she remarries will be committing adultery.

I'm confused as to your references. I see nothing which says it is his wifes fault and he is committing adultery if he divorces his wife because of her affairs and he gets remarried.

So how is his wife having an affair causing him to commit adultery?

[ November 07, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

NotHopeful - Yes, I consider my M worth fighting for, at all costs. Don't get me wrong - I'm not a martyr. I cry and am lonely like everyone else. Unlike my W at this point I take my M vows seriously. Even though I failed her at many points I am still a man of integrity. I have enough to answer for when I stand before Jesus - I've determined that divorce is NOT going to be one of them - realizing, however, that if the D is granted to her I am released and she will be answerable. I have to do the best I can do and put the rest in Jesus' capable hands. God bless!

I must say, I was expecting something quite different when I clicked on this thread. I strive to be a spiritual person. I listen to christian radio. I read the Bible. I say a lot of prayers. I believe in prayer. I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Then I read passages like Dueteronomy 22:20-22 and I have to admit that I pick and choose from the scriptures what I use for guidance. My interpretation of the Bible is not a literal one. Like anyone else, I'm a work in progress. I question my beliefs all the time. I don't know if what I have to offer is a Christian belief or not. A summary of my perspective seemed appropriate given that you asked to hear from Christians. I'll be the first to admit I'm wishy washy on the subject, but I feel moved to reply anyway.

It's my belief that we are not mandated to stay married 'no matter what.' The fact that allowances are made for divorce in the Bible leads me to that conclusion. It's abundantly clear that God frowns on divorce. Adultery is clearly an example where divorce is allowed. In my view, there's only one person in your marriage, dwad, who has biblical grounds for divorce, and it's you. I don't understand why you would be asking if your wife has 'grounds' just because she says she doesn't love you any more. By asking such a question, I see complacency when something else might be a more appropriate response.

This is the first post of yours that I've read. I don't know all the background. I imagine some pertinent details are missing. In any case, I kept thinking of things that I learned from reading "Bold Love" by Allender. I learned from that book that forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. I also learned that sometimes the ONLY appropriate response to another person's behavior is a rebuke. I think if you examine your belief about what a strong marriage should and could be, you'll have a much longer list of qualities than 'I want a wife who doesn't date other people.' For heavens sake, marriage is way more than that! You say you don't want a divorce, yet you're willing to do the work to get one. That seems double minded to me. You sound like a person who's so interested in being polite that you're losing your marriage and yourself in the process. I think you might benefit tremendously from reading Bold Love.

Being polite and complacent are usually good qualities, but there's a time and a place for everything. There are times when you need to get down in the mud and wrestle for your convictions. One of the messages in the book says that each of us will be held accountable for our lives, our marriage. You might rest easier at night if you know you've done everything in your power to show your wife what a marriage really could be. Do you think you've done that? I can't help but wonder, have you expected too little? She certainly isn't setting a good example by Christian standards, but there's always room for improvement, and it all starts with you. So many things in scripture are taken out of context. There are times to turn the other cheek, and there are times to throw the merchants out of the temple and turn all their tables upside down.

Perhaps another bit of background about me to put my response into proper context is some of my own behavior during my marriage. My marriage wasn't affected by adultery in the traditional sense. My stbx acted irresponsibly for a long period of time, and I spent my effort in taking on more than my share of responsibility to the point that I was toppling under the weight. Another way of putting it -- I was shielding him from the natural consequences of his behavior. I didn't learn until I was drained of all my resources that it did neither one of us any favors. If there's just one thing you get from this post, I hope it is this: are you shielding your wife from consequences of her behavior?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />My question to the board is how does a Christian reconcile getting a divorce from another Christian solely on the grounds of "I don't love you"? That is the situation with my wife. She tells her frineds that I'm a great guy, awesome dad, really good looking, strong Christian but... she doesn't love me.
<hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />I guess that is why I posted because I can't seem to get past how she justifies what a close walk she has with God but she is dating while still married and has had two sexual relationships. <hr /></blockquote>dontwantadivorce - These two quotes from different posts are connected. The first answer is that a Christian DOES NOT justify "getting a divorce from another Christian solely on the grounds of "I don't love you". There is NO biblical grounds for this as justification for a divorce. To "reconcile" this one has to put their own feelings and thoughts higher than God's for the purpose of selfish interest. The marriage COVENANT between two Christians and God establishes "until death do us part", not "until I no longer 'feel' in love." The only recognized grounds for divorce by God, as clearly stated in Scripture for two Christians, is marital unfaithfulness. There is no abiguity with this and came directly from the highest authority, Jesus Christ.

Also, biblically, God commands husbands to love their wives. But God does not command wives to love their husbands. God commands wives to humbly submit to their husbands as the spiritual head of the household and to respect their husbands. The "excuse" of "I don't love you" is not something that God will accept as a reason to break the covenant.

You asked "how she justifies what a close walk she has with God but she is dating while still married and has had two sexual relationships". The answer is she does NOT have a close walk with God. The two functions, a "close walk" and "willful sinning" regardless of God's commands, are anathema to God. One CANNOT have both because repenting of sin and following God in a close walk REQUIRE turning away from sinful behavior.

God DOES NOT forgive sin without repentance and a turning away from sin. "Go and leave your life of sin" is the operative command from God.

So how does she "reconcile" her actions of active sin? By allowing Satan to be in control of her life and not God. She is doing essentially the same thing that Eve did in the Garden of Eden. She believed Satan's lies and, in effect, called God a liar. Your wife is doing the same thing.

But there is an added reason. And that reason is the church that she attends and that allows her to be involved in ANY ministry while actively sinning against God's commands. Can you really think of anything more repulsive than a church that is supposed to stand for upholding God's commands that then allows a known sinner to LEAD any group, much less a singles group? Think of the rank hypocrisy of this, not to mention the sheer risk to other Christians by her example. She is, in effect, telling all those singles that the marriage covenant is meaningless, God's commands are meaningless, and they can do whatever they want to do. This church, or at least the leadership, is in dire trouble.

Someone should be taking "righteous anger" to the church leadership. This should not be happening and if the leadership makes any excuse for tolerating this behavior and their decision to let her lead any group, then take it to the whole church. Yes, it may well be divisive, and that is why I stressed "righteous anger." Follow God's admonition to "be angry, but in your anger do not sin." What the anger is directed at is sin against God and that anyone calling themselves a Christian would permit the teaching of God to be perverted.

I also wanted to pick up on something that sufdb said to you:

"Lastly dwad, your post had a sort of judgemental tone re your wifes walk with God, the "do over" stuff, etc. She is correct she will be forgiven, and she can continue on with her life....how that all works out is between her and God, and not you. You can only walk your own walk, be sure that is what you are doing."

Your "tone" should have a "judgmental tone" because her actions are in direct violation of God's commands and you, as a Christian, should be offended by her actions not only against you and the marriage, but that are open and willful sin against God. Sufdb is WAY off base when he says, "She is correct she will be forgiven". God clearly lists adulterers as some of those who will NOT be in heaven. The ONLY way to attain forgiveness for any sin, and for adultery in particular, is to confess the sin to God, repent of it (turn 180 degrees from the sinful behavior), and commit to follow God in humble obedience to His commands no matter how one might "feel" or "rationalize" their sinful behavior. Only then will God forgive the sin and restore the individual through the atoning blood of Christ. Any other way makes Christ's sacrifice on our behalf meaningless. It makes everything Christ said a lie. If forgiveness of sin can be had ANY other way, then there was no need for Christ to die for us to provide the only means for us to be reconciled to God.

jph - I believe that you are trying to use Scripture incorrectly. You seem to be taking passages out of context and are trying to use them to say that divorce is allowed for a myriad of reasons. That is patently false. Jesus Christ specifically pointed out the fallacy of that reasoning in the New Testament passages. It is clear and unambiguous. Divorce is allowed for the maritally FAITHFUL spouse if the other spouse commits marital unfaithfulness. The covenant is broken by the sinning spouse and the faithful spouse, can if they choose, divorce and even remarry (according to the rules of Scripture) WITHOUT committing adultery. The same is NOT true for the unfaithful spouse. The sin of the unfaithful spouse can be forgiven if they reach the point of confession and repentance, but the consequence of the sin (prohibition against marrying someone other than their original spouse) remains in place. No, it's not an easy thought. But it comes from God and no matter how much we might want to say, "yes, but...", God has spoken on the issue and HE is sovereign, not us.

dontwantadivorce - If you love your wife and would like the opportunity to recover your marriage and rekindle the love between you, then you should NOT divorce. You should be proactively meeting with the people at the church that telling your wife that her actions are "okay" and "acceptable" by not confronting her and allowing her to lead any ministry.

I have a pamphlet that might help you with this a little. It is called, "What Do You Do When Your Marriage Goes Sour?", by Jay E. Adams. If you'd like it, I can email it to you. If you don't want to post your email address, you can email it to me at mbforeverhers@yahoo.com, or open a free Yahoo account for yourself and then post that address.

God bless. This is the time to stand before those who call themselves Christians and ask them to support God's commands and to help you reach your wife with what God teaches.

[ November 07, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]

We are all sinners. Christians are forgiven sinners. We all fall short of the glory of God. Yes, if we have a true relationship with Him we learn to recognize our sin and then repent and turn from our sin.

I don't go through a day without sinning. No one does. It is how we handle the sin that matters. Do we try and find scriptures to justify our behavior or do we respond to the Holy Spirit working inside of us? I believe it is this simple.
The fact that I realize I have sin shows that the Holy Spirit is working in me.

We could argue about the meaning of scripture till the end of time and we would still disagree.
That is why it is a living Bible. As Christians read God's word, God reveals himself to them. We have a living God because we are to have a relationship with Him. We must seek Him in all things. No one here on earth can convict us of our sins. Only God can lead us down the path we are to take. We must ask Him and Him alone all of these kind of questions. We then must let Him speak to us through His word and guide us with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus alone must be Lord of our life. He is the one that must convict your wife of her sin, in His time. God is working on her and It will be Him she must answer to. She cannot hide from God.

We can pray for others to see their sin. We can gently restore those believers that have strayed from the truth. We will never convict. You must trust God with your wife's sin. We are to concentrate on our sins. If we say we don't have sin, then we need to turn to God to reveal our sin to us, because it is there.

Please don't be tempted to argue scripture. Our relationship with God is to be between us and Him. Live your life as God reveals you to through His word. Don't get caught up in the laws. Hang on to the relationship you have with Jesus.

I left my first husband and I justified it much as your wife is doing. I had not given my life to Christ but I knew enough to try and justify what I was doing. You know what? I have came to realize all the sins of my past. God has had me deal with each of them in His time. I got by with nothing. I know the truth now. I have turn from those sins but I still struggle with sin everyday.

We are all hypocrites in one way of another. Yes, some are worse than others but we all have thing we judge others on and we are many times doing the same things ourselves. We may or may not realize it at the time but we do it. I have noticed that every time I judge someone on something, I am later put in the same situation or sin and have to look at myself. Don't let hypocrites keep you from church. They will always be and again we all fall short. One day we and we alone will have to stand before God and be judged. So we need to concentrate on our own sin and pray for others.

No one can justify sin. Sin is sin. No one can hide from it. Your wife is not getting away with anything.

Faith hope and love. The greatest of these is love. Show this love in all we do and say.
This is hard I know, but we have God's grace and mercy.

I don't believe your wife should be leading a ministry at church if she is still married and dating. This is something the leaders of the church need to take care of. But I must warn you, if it comes from you , even if it is just you informing the leaders, she will become more angry and bitter toward you. This is something you should spent a lot of time on your knees about. God will give you the answers you need.

gentle

[ November 08, 2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: gentle ]