I'm more "down" than ever . . . found out more info.

Well - so much for doing good. I find out yesterday afternoon that my H and OW were seen together near my bosses house. She had already known of the "affair" and she confided in my best friend about it yesterday - because she didn't know if I should know or not. My best friend (thank goodness) called me. I called my H (I just can't seem to help myself) and confronted him. He lied through his teeth again. Came by office and wanted to talk to me. He adamently denied it - called my boss a liar and he would tell it to her face, etc.Then he said that today he would bring OW to my office and parade her around on his arm so that everyone could see her - and then they would have something to talk about (2 yr. old behavior, I know). I was so upset and crying and then he said - that "it's over" he's through - he wants us to be separated! I said "well, what did you think I meant the other night when I told you that's what it was going to be?"Nonetheless I gave him a choice - call her right now and tell her it's over or you lose me - and he told me "get to steppin'" (yeah and this is someone who suppossedly loves me.)So I was devestated - ready to just die - I go back in get my stuff and go to pick up our D at daycare (I always get her from daycare, because H is too busy working (or screwing) as the case may be. When I went to get her - no D - they said my H had already picked her up. I was freakin' out - should I call the police - what should I do. Then I had a thought - he's probably got a meeting with OW, OC, himself and our D.So I drive toward OW's (paren'ts house) she's still a child herself and I pass her - so I do a U-turn in the middle of the road (I told you I was insane) and follow her - she makes a couple of stops - and I honestly don't think she sees me - but she does and pulls in KMart parking lot and sits - I go on past and pull into Steak N Shake - and sit - and then she drives over to me and pulls up next to me and gets out of the car. She says what do I want - and that my H wants to know what I want - and she is talking to him on her cell phone. So nonetheless to make a super super long story - short - we are all 3 "talking" (he is at my house)and she tells me that the other night (Monday) when I told him it was over - he and she and OC went out to dinner and to the fireworks show - and then they went back to his hotel room - and that every night that I have "kicked" him out - she has been with him. They have lunch almost every day - and he brings her around his workers and they all know her - and she was at the house near my bosses and he was with her in the car. I didn't cry or anything in front of her - and I told her and him both that they are welcome to each other. I called her several names - and told her she couldn't get anyone on her own - and then she tells me that she has several dates and guess what my H does when he knows she has a date - he freaks out gets so jealous, etc. I HATE HIS GUTS!!!!!!!! I am so dead inside. I leave then and drive home - and my H, of course is there - he has his bag packed and keeps trying to talk to me - and I'm just so wounded - and hurt - all my fighting strenght is out the door - to know that he can just slip from 1 role to the other - and the fact that he could care less who knows about it and who sees him wtih her, etc. Are these men (and women) just totally without a conscious? I got so sick from crying and my head was pounding and I just kept throwing up and throwing up and he like got me and put me in bed and I just allowed him to take care of me - I was just dead. I just do not want to live anymore - for someone to be your H and to love you and they can intentionally treat you this way - over and ocver and over - good grief - what is an enemy suppossed to do?He never left - and I was so out of it - I just went to sleep and tried to "escape" the pain. If I ask him to leave again - he'll just go straight to her (which I don't even care anymore); but of course - you guessed it - he's in this mode of we will be okay -.He did tell her yesterday and she told me too - that she called him and asked him to go to lunch - and he said "well, I've tried calling Connie and I don't know where she is at; plus this is just causing too many problems at home so let's just give it a rest". Whatever that means.I just want to die - I honestly have nothing left inside to give to anyone.------------------

Forget about dying, DD. That would play right into OW's hands. Wouldn't she just love it if you did? If you can't hang on because you love yourself, then do it because you love your daughter. Do it to spite that skinny amoral blonde b##ch whose single goal in life seems to be to torment you. Do it to spite your WS who has no idea what he wants, but has no intention of respecting you as a wife right now. Just don't give up, and don't let those poor excuses for civilized people get the better of you. They are soooo not worth it. Rant and rave, have a shout fest, post to us, then go on with Plan B, pronto. Remember how good you felt about yourself when you were in the driver's seat a few days ago? Contact with your H at this time seems so detrimental towards your emotional well being. He wants a separation? Beat him to the punch and file for it yourself. Regain control, DD, for your daughter and yourself.

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Dear DD: I am so sorry you are going thru this again! I want to let you know that I feel for you and I am concern that you are so depressed. I think you need to go and be with family and to go and talk to somebody. Do you have family near by? I think you need them at this moment. I think you need to take your D out of this environment once and for all. I am concern about your D yesterday? Where was she when you were getting sick and all? I also think that at this time you are in shock because you cannot believe this is happening to you again, but it is and you need to go to family so you can put all your thoughts back in order and gain some streght. Obviously this H does not deserve you or your D, he is psycologically abusing you and you should not let that happen specially you do not want your D to see that! Maybe it is time to let him go because he is hurting you more than loving you. Your love bank is totally depleted and its time for Plan B. The first thing you should do is take your D to your family, and then maybe you and your H should have a mature talk about Plan B. He is only hurting you, and you are only hurting yourself by letting him hurt you. I will be here all morning so if you need to talk or to vent to someone I am here! Fambis

I know you're right - however, he SAID he wanted a separation - but then this a.m. he's wanting to "make it work with us". I do my part and he'll do his part - just looking at him disgusts me. How could this man that I've been through everything with - and I mean a lot of bad stuff- and stood by his side - how could he humiliate me with "her". She is very boyish-like - straw blonde hair - not pretty - smokes (he HATES smoking); how would he choose that over me(?) I mean - not to toot my horn - but honestly I look much much better than her - and have a better body at 35 - and she is 22!!! Geez - this a.m. he met me at my office to pick up my D as I was running late - and he said - "goodness what's wrong with you?" (My eyes are almost swollen shut - and I feel like I'm at death's door - the sheer utter . . . despair - I guess is what you call it.) Now - he is ready to work things out - he said "yesterday I told her it was over" - so now we can go forward - the nerve of him. ------------------

My family is close (enough) by; however, my mom just had double knee replacement surgery and is trying to recover (with my dad's full time help); my sister just caught her husband with another woman (Imagine that) and he is quite literally going through Hell on Earth - and my brother (newly married) is expecting his 1st child in November - and I honestly feel like I have no one. I have no where to go - and my H is the type that "won't take no for an answer." You're right - I have an appt. for my "therapist" tomorrow- but I swear - I don't think I can last that long. I am already on medicine for depression - I just feel like everything is closing in on me - and I'm being suffocated. I wish one of you guys lived close to me (TN) and could just come and rescue me from this pain.------------------

Im here! Not in TN but here, I will be here all day for you! Don't worry, I am so sorry you're family is going through all of this at the same time so more than ever you have to be STRONG for your D sake! SHE NEEDS YOU RIGHT NOW AT THIS MOMENT, nobody can make her feel better than Mommy and your it! So you need to find some strenght honey!Right now until you go and talk to someone I would like you to try and think about your D and your D only, on how pretty she is and her smile and everything else that you could possibly think about that beautiful child of yours! ok? Second, do you have any good friends? When all this happened to me I was in KS and knew nobody! I however had this great friend,(that GOD probably sent down for me!)that all I had to do is call her and she dropped everything she had to pick me up and my D and took me to her house for a couple of days to gain my strenght back and to give my D some peace. She had kids and all but nobody minded. Do you have a friend like that? or somebody who can come to your house to be with you? I don't want you to be alone and specially I do not want you to be alone with your abusive H. You're right he is ABUSIVE and if you let him back in your life so easy jsut like that you will be writing to us again in a couple of weeks! I agree with the rest you need to gain your control back AND ODNT TAKE HIM BACK SAY NO! you are going to feel so great after you say NO. Do not victimize yourself to him, be strong! I know you can. Anyways I am here okay?

DD, I can't believe the emotions you stirred up in me. While our situations are a little different I have felt everything you are feeling. The pain, the sickness, the disgust. I read your post and am now in tears. I am so so sorry you are going through all this. I wish I lived closer to. We could get together, watch our little treasures play together, listen to men bashing music and eat Ben & Jerry's all night.I hate to know that anyone is faced with this kind of torment and anquish. Please pick yourself up. You have so much to offer. This OW only has something "different" to offer. If she is putting up with being second in some man's life and knowing he is married with a child that is the lowest form of life. You have morals, and dignity and you have the biggest heart ever. Don't let them kick you while you are down. Ask your H to leave. Tell him even though HE wants to work it out that you're not sure you do. Then change your mindset. Start thinking in terms of you. You WILL be OK. With or without your husband.You will find someone else who will treat you like the queen you are. Everything happens for a reason. Give in. Find that reason. Start living again. Do something for yourself. Get a new haircut. Buy something smashing that would knock your H off his feet. Yet let him know he can't have you. Be confident. You are woman. You are special. Don't let them beat you. Fight for your D. I KNOW it's so hard to do. But do it. Your life it worth more than this. You'll get over him. But it's time to chose a road. So chose it.It will be up to your H to follow you. And if he doesn't. There will be someone special waiting at the other end. I'm so sorry DD. I wish I could be there for you. For everyone. I wish I could just take all this away. Does anyone (besides us) realize what this does to the human mind, body and soul? ANYONE? Stay strong DD. I'm thinking of you all the time. LSM------------------ Lost Soulmate

DD,I am so sorry that you are going thru this again. My heart goes out to you and your D. This has to be so hard and you need to be strong for your D. I don't know what to tell you. I don't think I could go on trusting if my H did that. But I remember when my boyfriend in h.s. did this to me and I would have done anything to stay with him, so I can understand why we don't just walk away from it all. I am sure we all once told ourselves before this happened that we would never stay with a man who cheated, etc. But when you actually get there in that situation, it is so hard. There is too much past sometimes.Put you first DD. And of course your daughter. Your H is putting you thru the wringer and back. I feel your pain. Hold on.....okay, there, just said a prayer for you. TAke care and hang in there.happy_girl

LSM: Thanks for your words of encouragement - - - I'm sorry that it brought you to tears - I'm just at the end of my rope - totally - I guess it is only up from here. My H will not leave - I will have to forcibly have him removed by the law - he is very determined - and he is determined to not lose me - I can see it in his eyes. If only he was that determined when I actually "cared" that it worked out.I swear if I didn't have a child it would be so easy to just disappear - but my child loves our home and wants to be with her "stuff" and just be "normal". My God - I would just like to be normal. I have been faithful to my H for 14 years and he repays me by this "crap". Some stupid bimbo that can't get a man for herself - Honestly (and I'm not making this up) she has been physical with all of her group of friends' boyfriends- and the little bimbos are still friends wtih her! She is a little baracuda - when she worked at the daycare and her friends were telling me these stories of how she would make out with their boyfriends behind their back - my radar instantly went up - I thought - my gosh - my H is such a woman lover - and I guess my radar should have went up to full speed - Oh well - the Ben & Jerry's thing sounds marvelous - I have a few friends - but none of them are able to give me what I need. One friend (that has dealt with infidelity) she is great to me - yet she has started a new job and has 2 kids and a H and I just always hate to intrude on people.I honestly want to crawl in a hole and die. I feel as If I have nothing to live for. Everytime I close my eyes I see the OW and my H going out together or see the "smirk" on her face when she was telling me how jealous my H was of her "having a date" and knowing that I've NEVER EVER seen him jealous of me - NEVER. (perhaps, though, since I've been a faithful wife, lover and friend he's never been in that situation before.Should I involve the law to get him to leave - My D has seen so much stuff in her poor 3 yr. old life. I just cringe at the thought of what potential problems (emotionally) she will face as a result of this "stuff" her father has put her through. Geez - I'm only going on because of my D - yet I'm so unsure of everything - I mean - literally- I have always been (before) so very confident - outgoing - and very happy - my MIL says I look like death - out of my eyes - like all the happiness has faded away - and it actually has!------------------

Dear DD: It will get better I promise! Well I think you need to ask your brother or sister to take your D for a day only for a day, and yes get the law involved kick him out of your house once and for all!!! Please DD think about yourself and your D! Please think about what you are saying: He not only insults you, cheats on you twice, he is mean to you, and NOW HE IS TELLING YOU HE IS WILLING TO WORK THIS OUT? and he is not leaving? What type of H is that DD? He needs to understand that he has done WRONG and he needs to give you some space to reconsider if so, but he needs to leave and if he cares about your D, then he should leave without involving the law. He needs to leave DD! For real! I'm here though and we could all have a pint of Ben & Jerry with you! fambis

DD - call your doctor and quick. I saw my own Dr. and then a psychiatrist prescribed antidepressants, and anti anxiety pills. I am not into the drug thing at all but I don't think when I was at the stage you are at anything helped me as much as my family and those antidepressants and anti anxiety drugs. When I first found out (April) I did nothing but cry for days. My family came to my rescue and put their lives on hold. Be selfish for once - you deserve it and let them help you. Don't try to be brave and strong for everyone. I fell apart with my family and then was able to be strong for my kids and handle my dealings with my husband in a rational way. You should consider Plan B - with out hysterics. I was being impulsive like you are - it comes from feeling so out of control -get yourself to the Dr. and quick. It will help you get control of your life. You don't feel tanked up or anything but calmer and stronger and it sounds like thats what you need. I am praying for you. Good luck. Kris

Thanks Kris. However, I have been on antidepressants since 3 yrs. ago (right before discovery) and without them - I'm an absolute wreck. I also have very very bad PMS and have been prescribed Xanax on an as-needed basis. Perhaps I should call someone - my internist or someone - I feel like I need to go lay down and get in the fetal position and never get up again. Of all the stuff I've been through the affair, the OC, everything - - for his "blatantly" still seeing her and making time to see her at lunch and going straight to her when he's mad or I'm mad - it just behooves me - I'm like - just freakin out - here. ------------------

Sweetie...I've followed your situation for so long now....my heart goes out to you, wish I could soothe your pain.What do you want? If you could have your way, what would it be? I mean seriously and within the limits of the law.You two have become so emotional with each other, so cruel. This has got to stop, you're to the point of not even being able to have a rational conversation with each other. You're following the OW around like a raving lunatic, and that's NOT you!!!Counseling? FAMILY counseling due to the unusual circumstances??I'm so worried about you.Keep posting. If you don't at least talk about all this, I fear you'll just blow up! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Laura

DDI'm checking in on you. What a mess.My husband treated me just as mentally abusive quite a few years. It was sick. We were sick, the way we interacted with one another. He pushed my buttons and I pushed his simply because we could. His behavior always affected my behavior, and visa versa. I learned how to take control of my own emotions, and to "write my own play" - so to speak. Drove him nuts. He could rant - rave - threaten - kiss up - didn't matter, I wrote my own play. I think this new behavior of mine momented us towards a less hostile environment - and as he calmed down a little - I was finally able to start using the "assertive" communication techniques. Still, not always - he is still munipulative and abusive, just not as often, and I don't let it get a rise out of me.But, your husband is one piece of work - (as faith hope and love used to say.) Ugggh.... I don't know what to advise you at this point - it is so volatile. I just know that if anyone is going to send this marriage into the direction it is going to have to go, it is going to be you. You have to make it go the way you want, first by learning about your own behaviors.Okay, you are trying to find out if you are being lied to, and then when you find out you are you are hysterical! So, out of kindness for yourself, and to enable you to control yourself (first step in trying to make this work) - you are going to have to stop torturing yourself. Accept that your husband is a huge piece of work, and that huge pieces of work typically lie about everything. So, don't go there - it just makes you upset, and doesn't accomplish what you want to accomplish if you react in surprise and hysteria when you find out he lies. This guy always lies. The point, is that you need to find out what behavior works in a positive direction, and what behavior works in a negative direction.I'm not saying play Pollyanna and live in denial, not at all. We know he is seeing OW, and OC. He feels guilty, and this is why he uses excuses for when he sees them. He uses excuses "it wasn't planned," "you made me angry", etc. etc. etc. The guilt is good. GOOD GOOD GOOD. So everytime you hear him using a lie or an excuse, realize that is because he is starting to show signs of shame. This is good.Well, that is all for now, I just want to see you start gaining control over your future, and not be reactive to all his little stupidity A$$H.... stunts. You are such a strong woman, you just need to prove it to yourself.TNT

DD I am new here and have only posted to you in my first post this morning. I wanted to post to you directly. I Have read your posts and you are dealing with to much- your mental state is not good. 3 years of this! I am so sorry for your pain DD I really am and I have had to fight with that hopeless feeling a lot too my H has had multiple affairs. I see you taking on to much. I know He is telling you he doesnt want to split up and that is making this so much more difficult for you him saying that it keeps you hoping-yet you are being torn down by him and your emotions-the emotions that you are going through are a lot to handle alone. It is amazing how his/her selfishness tares us up and attacks our self esteem. Please DD reach out to some one. Take care of you! Please dont let them do this to you. I know it is so hard to let go of your hurt. He/OW has caused you some much pain and then he sais BUT I DONT WANT TO GO. Please DD dont let go of your soul reach out to that little girl. Again I am sorry and probably not much help but I do care. 2Hurt

DD, I read this forum almost daily but rarely post. I am familiar w/your situation. Yesterday when I read about your H's continuing "game-playing" I nearly responded, but didn't. Today I must.My story, like everyone else's, is much the same with some variations. H and I are in recovery, I guess, but I still worry constantly, even after nearly 2 years. The affair appears to be over, but he is a master liar, so who knows. He appears to be committed to our marriage and family, and only wants to be a part of OC's life. Of course that requires seeing OW weekly. UGH!Here is how I feel. H and I have been married 25 years this month. We have 2 kids - one grown and one in college. I love my H with all my heart and want nothing more than to spend the rest of my life happily with him. I have a sincere fondness for OC, so that part will not be a problem. The problem is trust: trusting him, what he says, and wondering every time he goes to work or anywhere is he is actually going there.I think he is or I wouldn't still be here. But the constant worrying and the fear of what "might" happen in the future clouds my life. He sees it as a problem I have that I must work to overcome. Perhaps that's true and I'm trying to do it. As vile as what my H did was, at least he never treated me the way you are being treated. What your H is doing to you is selfish and unfeeling and just plain wrong. My advice to you is to stop basing what you do on what he says. Base what you do on what he DOES. Although he seems to be undecided since he goes back and forth between the two of you (must be a real ego boost for him!), you and your child are paying the price. Plan B, Plan B, Plan B.You are a young woman with many years of life ahead of you that should be filled with joy, love, and security. Do you think you can ever have that married to your present H? Even if he were to say he had stopped seeing OW, can you ever believe him? Has he ever made YOU and YOUR CHILD his priority? I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is advice I would have taken myself at your age (and still might!) I am in my early 50s nearing the end of my professional career. I have spent more than half my life loving my H and would like to grow old with him. But, honey, I am entitled to enjoy life and not just "get through each day" and so are you. Your H was given one life...he is not entitled to yours as well. Please make YOU and YOUR DAUGHTER your priority. Get this man out of your life, at least for now. Stand strong against his pleadings, because as soon as he has you under his control again, you know where he'll go. Come here for support and encouragement. I'm thinking of you.[This message has been edited by anniem (edited July 06, 2000).]

Guys you are all so sweet- and so good to me. Imagine getting that from your H? (wow that is a novel concept). Amazingly - I didn't imagine I could be any lower than I was when I first got the confirmation of the affair (the obvious evidence that she was pregnant) - but now - it's like on some level I have had hope that he would help me and we could strive beyond this - we use to be very very close - and did everything together - until the birth of our child. You are right - as soon as he would pacify me for a week, a month, 2 months - he would be right back ignoring me and trying to pacify her and make her think that he loves her - and wants to be with her (once our D gets older) that's the line "she says" he is using on her.You're right - I'm 35 and I have a lot of living to do - and he sure isn't worth it - but I was doing well - and now with this new revelation of the utter - meanness that he is dishing on me and especially with that - - - that tramp! God, how I hate both of them. The last time I had talked to our - I told her that she did not realize that depth of pain that she had caused me and that someday I hoped that she would get the same pain and perhaps only then would she understand that you can't go around screwing up people's lives and getting away with it - I put an emergency call into my new therapist and she is seeing me at 1:00 today - so hopefully that will help - It's like my H is so evil - of course when I got paid Friday - he called so sweetly "honey, can I borrow $400 from you to pay the guys with, and I'll give it back to you Sat. morning when I get my check." Okay, let's see today is Thursday almost a week - still no $$$$$. Everytime I ask him he says "you'll get it when I'm good and ready."I'm a very very emotional person - and he knows that - and that's how he gets to me - things hurt my feelings and I react emotionally instead of with my brain. I wish he would just leave and not fight me about it - and I could at least have some time to "think". I'll let you all know how my therapy session goes. Thanks so much - I've not been this down in "ages".------------------

DD, I'm sorry that your H is acting like such a jerk and that you are feeling so down. I hope that your therapy session helps you. I agree with all the advice you have gotten here and can't think of anything to add. But I did want you to know that I am thinking of you.Best wishes, Audrey

DD, dear heart... I will tell you what I see. I see you allowing him to hurt you. of *course* you don't want to hurt, but you *are* letting him do this to you. In order to do a good plan B, you have to cut him off. You may not like what I am going to suggest... Have you considered getting a teeny little place of your own? A little hide-away, so to speak? Cons: not where you want to be, feel like you were driven to it, it's not fair, you shouldn't have to do it. Pros: It is yours and yours alone. You can kick out whoever is bugging you. You will have peace when you need it. You can *definitely* do a good Plan B, when you don't have to listen to B.S. from H. You can concentrate on you and D. H will get a *real* taste of life without you. I know that this isn't a very feasible idea. But I think that drastic problems (like an extremely asinine H), call for drastic measures. If he won't co-operate with you and make a choice, then you need to force his hand. This could very well backfire on you. But look at it this way... do you really want to spend the rest of your life telling him it's "me or her" ? Getting a place of your own, where you *can* do Plan B, is your best option right now. Like them or not, in this way, you can get your answers. And your H would see that you are deadly serious. You are a strong person. I personally would *love* for my x's ow to ever try what your's did. I would have put her in the hospital! Remove yourself from the b.s., hon. Take control of your life.

DD I just want to add something. I know everyone is trying to get you to see how cruel your H is behaving. And after 3 years I'm surprised your Love bank isn't dried up. but I'm sure it's hard to hear everyone bashing him when you love him so deeply. Not to mention if everything worked out in the end you'd feel like a "fool" for taking him back. At least I feel like that. In any event I'm sure your H is a great guy otherwise you wouldn't love him the way you do. He's lost sweetie. And he won't find himself while you wait by his side.Three years is long enough. Make him leave. I would try to avoid the authorities. But plead with him. Tell him you love him, want to be with him but just can't do this any longer. Tell him you need some time. Time to do a little soul searching yourself. Beg him to leave. When he does and he will. Render Plan B in full force. Let him prove to you that he no longer wants anything to do with OW. He will have to do this on his own. Not because you are still married and love him and don't want her to see this OW. But because he "wants" to be with you. Let him cut this OW loose whether he is sure you'd come back to him or not. That's proof. "Character is doing what's right when no one's looking". Not to toot my own horn but I had someone tell me during the affair (i knew something was up but it was before DDay) that they were in love with me and wanted to seep me off my feet. You know what I told him? That I loved my H and wanted to be with him and will do whatever it takes. Even though I was being treated a poorly as anyone could be I stood by him. I made it clear to this person I was committed to my H and no one else. Then said I didn't want to have any contact with him any longer. Wasn't right or fair to all parties involved. I remember this and see what it means to be married. What my H should have done. But not everyone is as strong as us. We got it going on!!! So drink from your inner pool of power. Know you have so, so much to offer. Keep your H at bay until you can pick yourself up again. And quit making me cry will ya?I'm thinking of you. Be good to yourself. LSM------------------ Lost Soulmate

DD, This is horrible!!! I am so sorry that you have to deal with all this drama DD. But first and foremost YOU DO NOT WANT TO KILL YOURSELF!!! You have way too much to live for...your little girl being number one. She is your blessing, get strength in knowing you are her mom. I left my finance and for two years I was a single mom and I found strenghth in all that I accomplished by myself. Your husband's treatment toward you is unexcusable and downright evil. YOU DO NOT DESERVE THAT!!!! and most importantly he doesn't deserve you, nor does he deserve to see you suffer as you are because of him. I hope your therapy session does some good. I do wish I lived in TN, but I don't but nevertheless I am here for you. I will be checking in on you so please let us all know how you are doing. I will be praying for you and remember to take care of yourself and your little girl.

DD, look at the topic headed, "Peeked out of my detachment..." in the General Questions forum. May give you a little encouragement. Plan B is tough, but it can work. That particular post is proof-positive. Hugs for you, ((((((DD)))))))

DD, I will probably get blasted for this, but maybe it was your husband needs. It's a littel tough love. What if you locked him out of the house? Either changed the locks or when he is home remove his keys to the house, your car, and then lock the house. Then file separation and get restraining order. That would get his attention. Then agree to meet him with your lawyer. Spell out what you want from this relationhship and see if he is willing to make it happen. Draw up a contract spelling out what needs to be done for this marriage to work and what will happen if he fails to meet the contract. Marriage is about love and commitment, but it is also a legal document in which two parties agree to love, honor and cherish each other and only each other. He has broken that contract and needs to understand that when one breaks a contract there are repercussions. Radical, yes, but maybe that is what he needs. If nothing else you get your selfrespect back,. Good luck, TG

DD... I haven't had much time to read or post lately & am catching up. I will keep it simple. Texasgirl is right.Plan B. Go get a legal seperation, file for child support & see a lawyer. This doesn't mean you will end up divorced, but you will get your point across. One he is sitting in a lawyers office he might start taking this seriously. My H found out that I knew about the A when I filed divorce papers. After that we started talking. My H needed that approach. Otherwise he would have done same thing of telling me I was crazy (which he had already done when I mentioned that maybe something was wrong).Part of being a mother means protecting your child & taking care of yourself. It is time to do that & stop allowing yourself to be abused. Your H & OW are idiots and cruel people. Stay away from both of them. Make sure that legal visitation is set up for your D and that it specifically states that OW cannot be around when your H and D visit. Wish I could come go to the lawyer with you. You need a SERIOUS Plan B. Carolyn

Dear DD,I just wanted to post to you to let you know you are in my thoughts and prayers. I don't have much advice to give, as I can't imagine how you are being so strong, but I can offer my support. I read all the other posts and agree with them all. You need to look out for you and your daughter. You deserve better treatment. I don't know about the plan A and plan B stuff because we dealt with the affair over 3 years ago. But it sounds like you are supposed to be plan B-ing all the way. How was your therapy session? I hope you found a good therapist. Please be strong for you and your daughter. She needs you and you will teach her the right things to do. You can't go on letting you H treat you like he is. I don't know him but what he is doing is wrong. He may be a good person, but good people sometimes do bad things. I think that right now he just thinks you will always be there when he decides to come back, well give a little dose of reality. Show him you can and will make it on your own if you have to. Tell him you love him and want to work things out, but you will not let him continue to treat you this way. It may take a little cold water in the face for him to realize you aren't just gonna let him get away with this.Well, that is all I will say. Please take care of YOU. You are in my prayers.happy_girl

Connie:I am going to say something completely against MB principles.I hate him for what he is doing to you. His behavior is completely evil and amoral. And his whore seems to delight in your pain. In fact, she is the kind of woman who gets her feelings of self worth from having an unavailable man temporarily want her. Then she thinks she's worth something. Pathetic.What he is doing to your and to your daughter is so incredibly and completely evil, I feel sick.I hope you leave him, file papers and divorce his abusive a$$ if a stringent Plan B doesn't work.I am just seething right now. He is so completely, blatantly hurtful and destructive...and you're allowing it. And he doesn't even try to stop hurting you! And he makes absolutely no effort to restore or repair! And the things he says to you are the most disresepctful things I have ever heard. Who the hell does he think he is?And you allow it by always taking him back the next moment. No wonder it never lasts...it's too easy. He treats you with such disrespect...he knows he can get away with it and knows that you are so vulnerable that he can dish out any sort of pain and you'll instantly take him back as soon as he says a couple nice things because you want to beleive it so badly.You got the power. You got the power to change your life and make him crawl on his belly like the complete snake he is. I have noticed the very moment he sees you asserting yourself in any way, he suddenly 'gets religion' and panics and starts muelling about how "we will make this work" crap, then you instantly 'cave' and he thinks 'ha ha, I got her where I want her" and he's off and running with the whore, openly without any concern or consideration for your precious feelings after your generosity of allowing him to stay home with you in the FIRST place when you first found out about that pig whore and the OC.Connie. I can't stand to hear his complete and utter disregard for your feelings and his complete and utter disrespect of you as his wife, your child's mother and as an devoted wife and a woman of character. He is evil and abusive and does NOT deserve you.You do not deserve this. Catnip =^^= [This message has been edited by catnip (edited July 07, 2000).]

Cat:Wow - you're right - - I do not deserve this at all! My H even told me - "I don't deserve you." I guess I'm too forgiving for my own good. I think - like you said - that he can treat me any kind of way - and say 2 nice words - and I let it all go. I know I do that - I don't know what's wrong with me - I guess I am loyal to a fault!Loyal loyal - loyal. Sick - huh - well he tracked me down last night at his mom's (she had invited me and my D to dinner) and you talk about sugary, syrupy, crap - he was like "eat up with me". Yeah - after he tells bimbo - whore - to hit the road (for a day, a weeek, who knows) then he thinks I should be "sitting pretty" and waiting. He had called me yesterday and told me that he wanted to get himself fixed and see a counselor and for me to go wtih him - and that he would call someone (right that minute) and he would call me back - last night when he was being all sweet - I asked him if he had a counselor - and he said "no". I said "see, you have no desire to do anything". Then he kept trying to come up to me and rub on me and (he actually wanted sex) - I wanted to puke - It's as if he thinks - "ok, well I gave up Whore Face and now I'm ready to focus on you!" Yeah - right - in your dreams.I do love him (How I do not know) - but I really hate him too - everytime I look at him I see 'her' face. So that's good- that keeps me from falling under his spell. He is very very charming and I definately see how her stupid 22 year old [censored] can fall for it - if I, 35, and fairly intelligent have managed to fall for it all this time. However, I have used my heart this whole time - and now - I'm using my brain. He ended up following me home last night and just acting as if nothing was wrong - and actually wanting to have sex (ha) Of course this a.m. he was all "pissy" and mad because I didn't "give in". He left with - don't call me, don't page - good luck with everything.Then by the time I drive to work (30 min. drive) he has already called and left a msg. for me to call him and then called against just now and I wouldn't take his call - can you believe him?

DD: I am glad you are ok. No I cannot believe him! But it seems that his behavior is becoming a patern...nice,bad,nice,bad,abusive,and so on... Did you go to your counselor?I hope you did, what did your counselor say? I am glad you are not taking his phone calls, doesn't feel good to be in control? I am sure it does. Please DD go to Plan B ok? Ask him to go to your house, because that is to easy for him, he cannot miss you if he is around. Okay I am here if you want to talk. fambis

I have to say I agree with Catnip. While I know you don't want to hear such bad things about someone you love you have to move on. You need time to heal.You don't need someone pooring salt in the wound. Stay strong. Don't let him pull you back down. I know he's being so sweet now but don't fall. If he wants to prove himself let him continue to be sweet while you get on with your life, with or without him. I'm sure he doesn't "enjoy" hurting you but the fact is he "is" hurting you. More than anyone could ever hurt someone else.If you ask me I'd rather be tied to a table and have my fingernails pulled off than to feel the pain we all feel. That would be no comparison.Let him call you all day if he wants. Don't take his calls. DD make plans for the weekend. You KNOW he's going to come around. Don't get sucked in. Be strong!!! Demand respect. You deserve the best. I'm thinking of you. LSM

Thanks guys - I appreciate the support. I'm doing fine today - I'm very up - positive - and not lettings his "words" do anything to me - I have a protection shield up against him. My counselor helped me a lot yesterday. She said - it was very obvious that my H has lost touch with reality. He is still not taking responsibility for his actions. He is blaming me - her - anyone - except himself. She told me to tell him "well, you've made a huge mess of this marriage - and since I didn't have to tell you how to mess it up and how to get in bed with a 19 year old - then I'm not gonna tell you how to fix it. You're a grown man - I'm sure you have any resources to fall back on to figure it out." She said that I was too much of a "fixer" and that I want to fix things even when I don't break them - and that is very very true of my personality. That's why I guess I keep dealing with this crap = Anyway - I'm going to go to my sister's house probably for the weekend - her H moved out (bless her heart) so he can "think". Men make me so sick - they are so selfish- it's like "World please stop and make me feel good - all the time - just me me me me!" LSM, you're right - I would rather be tied down and have my fingernails taken off one by one - the pain of this affair/oc issue - is one that is unbelievably painful - because especially having the OC - it truly never goes away.------------------

You know...I have to confess. If some night and shinning armor walked into my life and offered to take me away from all this and love me forever...I can't say 100% that I wouldn't let him. Is that bad?

Dear DD: I am so glad to hear that you are being very positive today. I am also very glad that you are spending the weekend with your sister. That way you can gather your strenght and your thoughts. It is so true about trying to fix things, he is the one who has to fix this mess. About the OW/OC you are right I also rather be tied down and let them pull my nails one by one and let them apply alcohol to them after they pulled them than to be in this situation. But remember we are here for you and we understand what you are going through. I also want you to remember that you are a BEAUTIFUL PERSON and that you will find happiness and peace SOON! I promise!

lost soul mate: You are not alone everybody dreams about those fantasies! I sometimes think if I would still be dealing with all this CRAP if I had my fantasy man sweep me off my feet, guarantee me 100% worry free happiness, and that I will never ever ever have to deal with this or even remember this happen to me!

Do you think our WS might have felt this in some way and that's why we are all where we are?

double post--oops![This message has been edited by Jenny (edited July 07, 2000).]

lostsoul, I think you are on to something there. Affairs are fantasies, just like your pretend dream man fantasy, which the XOW probably had. The truth is research says we all carry unresolved issues into our next relationship, so that if we don't "solve" the last relationship (alone or with that spouse), we will just repeat the same problems. Isn't that scarey?! Helped motivate us to stay together...DD, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I think the the counselor is right on. Stay strong!

DD,Just checking in to say hi and that you seem so much stronger today. Good for you. Have a good time at your sisters. You are taking care of you, which will help you daughter too! God Bless!happy_girl

DD - Is your name Connie, too? eee gads.I do hope you are having a wonderful weekend at your sisters and that you find that you have some support. Thinking about you (((DD)))

DD,I hope that your weekend went well. I have been off the boards for a couple of hectic days, but I have been reading what is going on. Take care, stick to Plan B, and take care of your daughter. I am curious how she is doing through all of this. Has she had to witness the way he treats you? I hope not, that makes her even more of a victim. Keep in touch. I am praying for you!babstr.

Hey - yeah my name is Connie (!) Well, the weekend was a mixture of bittersweet - I guess. I went to my sister's on Friday and had a good time. My parents were there and my H found me and I actually answered the phone - so I was busted. He told me that he couldn't stand it without me, etc. etc. He told me we could go to counseling - he would do whatever. I know that I want to believe him- but I know beter not to. My D can't stand not seeing her father. That is the hardest thing in all this. All she has ever known is me and my H together - Saturday - I went with my MIL to get a bed for my D - H had to be there (because he had a truck) to load it up, etc. We all went to lunch - and it was very nice - H was talking about the future as if we would always be together - He asked me to please give him another chance - if not for me - but for our D. I am so torn - I cannot be hurt again - yet if there was some chance . . .------------------

DD,where are you? hope that you are okay. haven't seen you post for a couple of days. I am hoping you had checked email notification, so you will get this message. Let us know how you are doing...happy_girl

DD stick to Plan B. Tell him you love him but you just need some time. Let him continue to "prove" himself. If he's fighting for you while he's not sure you will be there or not then that says so much.I hope you and your D are doing well. Maybe there should be a Plan C that combines Plans A and B. It sounds like you're doing that and I support you. But stay strong and be confident. You have so much to offer this man. Make sure he KNOWS it and never forgets. Talk to you soon. LSM