Well - so much for doing good. I find out yesterday afternoon that my H and OW were seen together near my bosses house. She had already known of the "affair" and she confided in my best friend about it yesterday - because she didn't know if I should know or not. My best friend (thank goodness) called me. I called my H (I just can't seem to help myself) and confronted him. He lied through his teeth again. Came by office and wanted to talk to me. He adamently denied it - called my boss a liar and he would tell it to her face, etc.<P>Then he said that today he would bring OW to my office and parade her around on his arm so that everyone could see her - and then they would have something to talk about (2 yr. old behavior, I know). I was so upset and crying and then he said - that "it's over" he's through - he wants us to be separated! I said "well, what did you think I meant the other night when I told you that's what it was going to be?"<P>Nonetheless I gave him a choice - call her right now and tell her it's over or you lose me - and he told me "get to steppin'" (yeah and this is someone who suppossedly loves me.)<P>So I was devestated - ready to just die - I go back in get my stuff and go to pick up our D at daycare (I always get her from daycare, because H is too busy working (or screwing) as the case may be. When I went to get her - no D - they said my H had already picked her up. I was freakin' out - should I call the police - what should I do. Then I had a thought - he's probably got a meeting with OW, OC, himself and our D.<P>So I drive toward OW's (paren'ts house) she's still a child herself and I pass her - so I do a U-turn in the middle of the road (I told you I was insane) and follow her - she makes a couple of stops - and I honestly don't think she sees me - but she does and pulls in KMart parking lot and sits - I go on past and pull into Steak N Shake - and sit - and then she drives over to me and pulls up next to me and gets out of the car. She says what do I want - and that my H wants to know what I want - and she is talking to him on her cell phone. So nonetheless to make a super super long story - short - we are all 3 "talking" (he is at my house)and she tells me that the other night (Monday) when I told him it was over - he and she and OC went out to dinner and to the fireworks show - and then they went back to his hotel room - and that every night that I have "kicked" him out - she has been with him. They have lunch almost every day - and he brings her around his workers and they all know her - and she was at the house near my bosses and he was with her in the car. I didn't cry or anything in front of her - and I told her and him both that they are welcome to each other. I called her several names - and told her she couldn't get anyone on her own - and then she tells me that she has several dates and guess what my H does when he knows she has a date - he freaks out gets so jealous, etc. I HATE HIS GUTS!!!!!!!! <P>I am so dead inside. I leave then and drive home - and my H, of course is there - he has his bag packed and keeps trying to talk to me - and I'm just so wounded - and hurt - all my fighting strenght is out the door - to know that he can just slip from 1 role to the other - and the fact that he could care less who knows about it and who sees him wtih her, etc. Are these men (and women) just totally without a conscious? I got so sick from crying and my head was pounding and I just kept throwing up and throwing up and he like got me and put me in bed and I just allowed him to take care of me - I was just dead. I just do not want to live anymore - for someone to be your H and to love you and they can intentionally treat you this way - over and ocver and over - good grief - what is an enemy suppossed to do?<P>He never left - and I was so out of it - I just went to sleep and tried to "escape" the pain. If I ask him to leave again - he'll just go straight to her (which I don't even care anymore); but of course - you guessed it - he's in this mode of we will be okay -.<P>He did tell her yesterday and she told me too - that she called him and asked him to go to lunch - and he said "well, I've tried calling Connie and I don't know where she is at; plus this is just causing too many problems at home so let's just give it a rest". Whatever that means.<P>I just want to die - I honestly have nothing left inside to give to anyone.<P>------------------<BR>

Forget about dying, DD. That would play right into OW's hands. Wouldn't she just love it if you did? If you can't hang on because you love yourself, then do it because you love your daughter. Do it to spite that skinny amoral blonde b##ch whose single goal in life seems to be to torment you. Do it to spite your WS who has no idea what he wants, but has no intention of respecting you as a wife right now. Just don't give up, and don't let those poor excuses for civilized people get the better of you. They are soooo not worth it. <P>Rant and rave, have a shout fest, post to us, then go on with Plan B, pronto. Remember how good you felt about yourself when you were in the driver's seat a few days ago? Contact with your H at this time seems so detrimental towards your emotional well being. He wants a separation? Beat him to the punch and file for it yourself. Regain control, DD, for your daughter and yourself.

<BR>Dear DD:<BR>I am so sorry you are going thru this again!<BR>I want to let you know that I feel for you and I am concern that you are so depressed. I think you need to go and be with family and to go and talk to somebody. Do you have family near by? I think you need them at this moment. I think you need to take your D out of this environment once and for all. I am concern about your D yesterday? Where was she when you were getting sick and all?<BR>I also think that at this time you are in shock because you cannot believe this is happening to you again, but it is and you need to go to family so you can put all your thoughts back in order and gain some streght.<BR>Obviously this H does not deserve you or your D, he is psycologically abusing you and you should not let that happen specially you do not want your D to see that! Maybe it is time to let him go because he is hurting you more than loving you. Your love bank is totally depleted and its time for Plan B. The first thing you should do is take your D to your family, and then maybe you and your H should have a mature talk about Plan B. He is only hurting you, and you are only hurting yourself by letting him hurt you.<BR>I will be here all morning so if you need to talk or to vent to someone I am here!<BR>Fambis

I know you're right - however, he SAID he wanted a separation - but then this a.m. he's wanting to "make it work with us". I do my part and he'll do his part - just looking at him disgusts me. How could this man that I've been through everything with - and I mean a lot of bad stuff- and stood by his side - how could he humiliate me with "her". She is very boyish-like - straw blonde hair - not pretty - smokes (he HATES smoking); how would he choose that over me(?) I mean - not to toot my horn - but honestly I look much much better than her - and have a better body at 35 - and she is 22!!! Geez - this a.m. he met me at my office to pick up my D as I was running late - and he said - "goodness what's wrong with you?" (My eyes are almost swollen shut - and I feel like I'm at death's door - the sheer utter . . . despair - I guess is what you call it.) Now - he is ready to work things out - he said "yesterday I told her it was over" - so now we can go forward - the nerve of him. <P>------------------<BR>

My family is close (enough) by; however, my mom just had double knee replacement surgery and is trying to recover (with my dad's full time help); my sister just caught her husband with another woman (Imagine that) and he is quite literally going through Hell on Earth - and my brother (newly married) is expecting his 1st child in November - and I honestly feel like I have no one. I have no where to go - and my H is the type that "won't take no for an answer." You're right - I have an appt. for my "therapist" tomorrow- but I swear - I don't think I can last that long. I am already on medicine for depression - I just feel like everything is closing in on me - and I'm being suffocated. I wish one of you guys lived close to me (TN) and could just come and rescue me from this pain.<P>------------------<BR>

Im here! Not in TN but here, I will be here all day for you! Don't worry, I am so sorry you're family is going through all of this at the same time so more than ever you have to be STRONG for your D sake! SHE NEEDS YOU RIGHT NOW AT THIS MOMENT, nobody can make her feel better than Mommy and your it! So you need to find some strenght honey!Right now until you go and talk to someone I would like you to try and think about your D and your D only, on how pretty she is and her smile and everything else that you could possibly think about that beautiful child of yours! ok?<BR>Second, do you have any good friends? When all this happened to me I was in KS and knew nobody! I however had this great friend,(that GOD probably sent down for me!)that all I had to do is call her and she dropped everything she had to pick me up and my D and took me to her house for a couple of days to gain my strenght back and to give my D some peace. She had kids and all but nobody minded. Do you have a friend like that? or somebody who can come to your house to be with you? I don't want you to be alone and specially I do not want you to be alone with your abusive H. You're right he is ABUSIVE and if you let him back in your life so easy jsut like that you will be writing to us again in a couple of weeks! I agree with the rest you need to gain your control back AND ODNT TAKE HIM BACK SAY NO! you are going to feel so great after you say NO. Do not victimize yourself to him, be strong! I know you can. Anyways I am here okay?<BR>

DD, I can't believe the emotions you stirred up in me. While our situations are a little different I have felt everything you are feeling. The pain, the sickness, the disgust. I read your post and am now in tears. I am so so sorry you are going through all this. I wish I lived closer to. We could get together, watch our little treasures play together, listen to men bashing music and eat Ben & Jerry's all night.<P>I hate to know that anyone is faced with this kind of torment and anquish. Please pick yourself up. You have so much to offer. This OW only has something "different" to offer. If she is putting up with being second in some man's life and knowing he is married with a child that is the lowest form of life. You have morals, and dignity and you have the biggest heart ever. Don't let them kick you while you are down. Ask your H to leave. Tell him even though HE wants to work it out that you're not sure you do. Then change your mindset. Start thinking in terms of you. You WILL be OK. With or without your husband.<P>You will find someone else who will treat you like the queen you are. Everything happens for a reason. Give in. Find that reason. Start living again. Do something for yourself. Get a new haircut. Buy something smashing that would knock your H off his feet. Yet let him know he can't have you. Be confident. You are woman. You are special. Don't let them beat you. Fight for your D. I KNOW it's so hard to do. But do it. Your life it worth more than this. You'll get over him. But it's time to chose a road. So chose it.<P>It will be up to your H to follow you. And if he doesn't. There will be someone special waiting at the other end. I'm so sorry DD. I wish I could be there for you. For everyone. I wish I could just take all this away. Does anyone (besides us) realize what this does to the human mind, body and soul? ANYONE? Stay strong DD. I'm thinking of you all the time. LSM<P>------------------<BR>Lost Soulmate

DD,<P>I am so sorry that you are going thru this again. My heart goes out to you and your D. This has to be so hard and you need to be strong for your D. I don't know what to tell you. I don't think I could go on trusting if my H did that. But I remember when my boyfriend in h.s. did this to me and I would have done anything to stay with him, so I can understand why we don't just walk away from it all. I am sure we all once told ourselves before this happened that we would never stay with a man who cheated, etc. But when you actually get there in that situation, it is so hard. There is too much past sometimes.<P>Put you first DD. And of course your daughter. Your H is putting you thru the wringer and back. I feel your pain. Hold on.....okay, there, just said a prayer for you. TAke care and hang in there.<P>happy_girl

LSM: Thanks for your words of encouragement - - - I'm sorry that it brought you to tears - I'm just at the end of my rope - totally - I guess it is only up from here. My H will not leave - I will have to forcibly have him removed by the law - he is very determined - and he is determined to not lose me - I can see it in his eyes. If only he was that determined when I actually "cared" that it worked out.<P>I swear if I didn't have a child it would be so easy to just disappear - but my child loves our home and wants to be with her "stuff" and just be "normal". My God - I would just like to be normal. I have been faithful to my H for 14 years and he repays me by this "crap". Some stupid bimbo that can't get a man for herself - Honestly (and I'm not making this up) she has been physical with all of her group of friends' boyfriends- and the little bimbos are still friends wtih her! She is a little baracuda - when she worked at the daycare and her friends were telling me these stories of how she would make out with their boyfriends behind their back - my radar instantly went up - I thought - my gosh - my H is such a woman lover - and I guess my radar should have went up to full speed - <P>Oh well - the Ben & Jerry's thing sounds marvelous - I have a few friends - but none of them are able to give me what I need. One friend (that has dealt with infidelity) she is great to me - yet she has started a new job and has 2 kids and a H and I just always hate to intrude on people.<P>I honestly want to crawl in a hole and die. I feel as If I have nothing to live for. Everytime I close my eyes I see the OW and my H going out together or see the "smirk" on her face when she was telling me how jealous my H was of her "having a date" and knowing that I've NEVER EVER seen him jealous of me - NEVER. (perhaps, though, since I've been a faithful wife, lover and friend he's never been in that situation before.<P>Should I involve the law to get him to leave - My D has seen so much stuff in her poor 3 yr. old life. I just cringe at the thought of what potential problems (emotionally) she will face as a result of this "stuff" her father has put her through. Geez - I'm only going on because of my D - yet I'm so unsure of everything - I mean - literally- I have always been (before) so very confident - outgoing - and very happy - my MIL says I look like death - out of my eyes - like all the happiness has faded away - and it actually has!<P>------------------<BR>

Dear DD:<BR>It will get better I promise! Well I think you need to ask your brother or sister to take your D for a day only for a day, and yes get the law involved kick him out of your house once and for all!!! <BR>Please DD think about yourself and your D! Please think about what you are saying: He not only insults you, cheats on you twice, he is mean to you, and NOW HE IS TELLING YOU HE IS WILLING TO WORK THIS OUT? and he is not leaving? What type of H is that DD? He needs to understand that he has done WRONG and he needs to give you some space to reconsider if so, but he needs to leave and if he cares about your D, then he should leave without involving the law. He needs to leave DD! For real!<BR>I'm here though and we could all have a pint of Ben & Jerry with you!<BR>fambis

DD - call your doctor and quick. I saw my own Dr. and then a psychiatrist prescribed antidepressants, and anti anxiety pills. I am not into the drug thing at all but I don't think when I was at the stage you are at anything helped me as much as my family and those antidepressants and anti anxiety drugs. When I first found out (April) I did nothing but cry for days. My family came to my rescue and put their lives on hold. Be selfish for once - you deserve it and let them help you. Don't try to be brave and strong for everyone. I fell apart with my family and then was able to be strong for my kids and handle my dealings with my husband in a rational way. You should consider Plan B - with out hysterics. I was being impulsive like you are - it comes from feeling so out of control -get yourself to the Dr. and quick. It will help you get control of your life. You don't feel tanked up or anything but calmer and stronger and it sounds like thats what you need. I am praying for you. Good luck. <BR> Kris

Thanks Kris. However, I have been on antidepressants since 3 yrs. ago (right before discovery) and without them - I'm an absolute wreck. I also have very very bad PMS and have been prescribed Xanax on an as-needed basis. Perhaps I should call someone - my internist or someone - I feel like I need to go lay down and get in the fetal position and never get up again. Of all the stuff I've been through the affair, the OC, everything - - for his "blatantly" still seeing her and making time to see her at lunch and going straight to her when he's mad or I'm mad - it just behooves me - I'm like - just freakin out - here. <P>------------------<BR>

Sweetie...I've followed your situation for so long now....my heart goes out to you, wish I could soothe your pain.<P>What do you want? If you could have your way, what would it be? I mean seriously and within the limits of the law.<P>You two have become so emotional with each other, so cruel. This has got to stop, you're to the point of not even being able to have a rational conversation with each other. You're following the OW around like a raving lunatic, and that's NOT you!!!<P>Counseling? FAMILY counseling due to the unusual circumstances??<P>I'm so worried about you.<P>Keep posting. If you don't at least talk about all this, I fear you'll just blow up!<P> <P>Laura<BR>

DD<P>I'm checking in on you. What a mess.<P>My husband treated me just as mentally abusive quite a few years. It was sick. We were sick, the way we interacted with one another. He pushed my buttons and I pushed his simply because we could. <P>His behavior always affected my behavior, and visa versa. I learned how to take control of my own emotions, and to "write my own play" - so to speak. Drove him nuts. He could rant - rave - threaten - kiss up - didn't matter, I wrote my own play. I think this new behavior of mine momented us towards a less hostile environment - and as he calmed down a little - I was finally able to start using the "assertive" communication techniques. Still, not always - he is still munipulative and abusive, just not as often, and I don't let it get a rise out of me.<P>But, your husband is one piece of work - (as faith hope and love used to say.) Ugggh.... <P>I don't know what to advise you at this point - it is so volatile. I just know that if anyone is going to send this marriage into the direction it is going to have to go, it is going to be you. You have to make it go the way you want, first by learning about your own behaviors.<P>Okay, you are trying to find out if you are being lied to, and then when you find out you are you are hysterical! So, out of kindness for yourself, and to enable you to control yourself (first step in trying to make this work) - you are going to have to stop torturing yourself. Accept that your husband is a huge piece of work, and that huge pieces of work typically lie about everything. So, don't go there - it just makes you upset, and doesn't accomplish what you want to accomplish if you react in surprise and hysteria when you find out he lies. This guy always lies. <P>The point, is that you need to find out what behavior works in a positive direction, and what behavior works in a negative direction.<P>I'm not saying play Pollyanna and live in denial, not at all. We know he is seeing OW, and OC. He feels guilty, and this is why he uses excuses for when he sees them. He uses excuses "it wasn't planned," "you made me angry", etc. etc. etc. The guilt is good. GOOD GOOD GOOD. So everytime you hear him using a lie or an excuse, realize that is because he is starting to show signs of shame. This is good.<P>Well, that is all for now, I just want to see you start gaining control over your future, and not be reactive to all his little stupidity A$$H.... stunts. You are such a strong woman, you just need to prove it to yourself.<P>TNT

DD<BR> I am new here and have only posted to you in my first post this morning. I wanted to post to you directly. I Have read your posts and you are dealing with to much- your mental state is not good. 3 years of this! I am so sorry for your pain DD I really am and I have had to fight with that hopeless feeling a lot too my H has had multiple affairs. I see you taking on to much. I know He is telling you he doesnt want to split up and that is making this so much more difficult for you him saying that it keeps you hoping-yet you are being torn down by him and your emotions-the emotions that you are going through are a lot to handle alone. It is amazing how his/her selfishness tares us up and attacks our self esteem. Please DD reach out to some one. Take care of you! Please dont let them do this to you. I know it is so hard to let go of your hurt. He/OW has caused you some much pain and then he sais BUT I DONT WANT TO GO. Please DD dont let go of your soul reach out to that little girl. Again I am sorry and probably not much help but I do care.<BR> 2Hurt

DD, I read this forum almost daily but rarely post. I am familiar w/your situation. Yesterday when I read about your H's continuing "game-playing" I nearly responded, but didn't. Today I must.<P>My story, like everyone else's, is much the same with some variations. H and I are in recovery, I guess, but I still worry constantly, even after nearly 2 years. The affair appears to be over, but he is a master liar, so who knows. He appears to be committed to our marriage and family, and only wants to be a part of OC's life. Of course that requires seeing OW weekly. UGH!<P>Here is how I feel. H and I have been married 25 years this month. We have 2 kids - one grown and one in college. I love my H with all my heart and want nothing more than to spend the rest of my life happily with him. I have a sincere fondness for OC, so that part will not be a problem. The problem is trust: trusting him, what he says, and wondering every time he goes to work or anywhere is he is actually going there.<P>I think he is or I wouldn't still be here. But the constant worrying and the fear of what "might" happen in the future clouds my life. He sees it as a problem I have that I must work to overcome. Perhaps that's true and I'm trying to do it. <P>As vile as what my H did was, at least he never treated me the way you are being treated. What your H is doing to you is selfish and unfeeling and just plain wrong. My advice to you is to stop basing what you do on what he says. Base what you do on what he DOES. Although he seems to be undecided since he goes back and forth between the two of you (must be a real ego boost for him!), you and your child are paying the price. Plan B, Plan B, Plan B.<P>You are a young woman with many years of life ahead of you that should be filled with joy, love, and security. Do you think you can ever have that married to your present H? Even if he were to say he had stopped seeing OW, can you ever believe him? Has he ever made YOU and YOUR CHILD his priority? I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is advice I would have taken myself at your age (and still might!) <P>I am in my early 50s nearing the end of my professional career. I have spent more than half my life loving my H and would like to grow old with him. But, honey, I am entitled to enjoy life and not just "get through each day" and so are you. Your H was given one life...he is not entitled to yours as well. <P>Please make YOU and YOUR DAUGHTER your priority. Get this man out of your life, at least for now. Stand strong against his pleadings, because as soon as he has you under his control again, you know where he'll go. Come here for support and encouragement. I'm thinking of you.<p>[This message has been edited by anniem (edited July 06, 2000).]

Guys you are all so sweet- and so good to me. Imagine getting that from your H? (wow that is a novel concept). Amazingly - I didn't imagine I could be any lower than I was when I first got the confirmation of the affair (the obvious evidence that she was pregnant) - but now - it's like on some level I have had hope that he would help me and we could strive beyond this - we use to be very very close - and did everything together - until the birth of our child. <P>You are right - as soon as he would pacify me for a week, a month, 2 months - he would be right back ignoring me and trying to pacify her and make her think that he loves her - and wants to be with her (once our D gets older) that's the line "she says" he is using on her.<P>You're right - I'm 35 and I have a lot of living to do - and he sure isn't worth it - but I was doing well - and now with this new revelation of the utter - meanness that he is dishing on me and especially with that - - - that tramp! God, how I hate both of them. The last time I had talked to our - I told her that she did not realize that depth of pain that she had caused me and that someday I hoped that she would get the same pain and perhaps only then would she understand that you can't go around screwing up people's lives and getting away with it - I put an emergency call into my new therapist and she is seeing me at 1:00 today - so hopefully that will help - It's like my H is so evil - of course when I got paid Friday - he called so sweetly "honey, can I borrow $400 from you to pay the guys with, and I'll give it back to you Sat. morning when I get my check." Okay, let's see today is Thursday almost a week - still no $$$$$. Everytime I ask him he says "you'll get it when I'm good and ready."<P>I'm a very very emotional person - and he knows that - and that's how he gets to me - things hurt my feelings and I react emotionally instead of with my brain. <P>I wish he would just leave and not fight me about it - and I could at least have some time to "think". <P>I'll let you all know how my therapy session goes. Thanks so much - I've not been this down in "ages".<P>------------------<BR>

DD,<BR>I'm sorry that your H is acting like such a jerk and that you are feeling so down. I hope that your therapy session helps you. I agree with all the advice you have gotten here and can't think of anything to add. But I did want you to know that I am thinking of you.<P>Best wishes,<BR>Audrey

DD, dear heart... I will tell you what I see. I see you allowing him to hurt you. of *course* you don't want to hurt, but you *are* letting him do this to you.<BR> In order to do a good plan B, you have to cut him off. You may not like what I am going to suggest...<BR> <BR> Have you considered getting a teeny little place of your own? A little hide-away, so to speak? <BR> <BR> Cons: not where you want to be, feel like you were driven to it, it's not fair, you shouldn't have to do it.<P> Pros:<BR> It is yours and yours alone.<BR> You can kick out whoever is bugging you.<BR> You will have peace when you need it.<BR> You can *definitely* do a good Plan B, when you don't have to listen to B.S. from H.<BR> You can concentrate on you and D.<BR> H will get a *real* taste of life without you.<P> I know that this isn't a very feasible idea. But I think that drastic problems (like an extremely asinine H), call for drastic measures. If he won't co-operate with you and make a choice, then you need to force his hand. <P> This could very well backfire on you. But look at it this way... do you really want to spend the rest of your life telling him it's "me or her" ?<P> Getting a place of your own, where you *can* do Plan B, is your best option right now. Like them or not, in this way, you can get your answers. And your H would see that you are deadly serious.<P> You are a strong person. I personally would *love* for my x's ow to ever try what your's did. I would have put her in the hospital! <P> Remove yourself from the b.s., hon. Take control of your life.

DD I just want to add something. I know everyone is trying to get you to see how cruel your H is behaving. And after 3 years I'm surprised your Love bank isn't dried up. but I'm sure it's hard to hear everyone bashing him when you love him so deeply. Not to mention if everything worked out in the end you'd feel like a "fool" for taking him back. At least I feel like that. In any event I'm sure your H is a great guy otherwise you wouldn't love him the way you do. He's lost sweetie. And he won't find himself while you wait by his side.<P>Three years is long enough. Make him leave. I would try to avoid the authorities. But plead with him. Tell him you love him, want to be with him but just can't do this any longer. Tell him you need some time. Time to do a little soul searching yourself. Beg him to leave. When he does and he will. Render Plan B in full force. Let him prove to you that he no longer wants anything to do with OW. He will have to do this on his own. Not because you are still married and love him and don't want her to see this OW. But because he "wants" to be with you. Let him cut this OW loose whether he is sure you'd come back to him or not. That's proof. "Character is doing what's right when no one's looking". Not to toot my own horn but I had someone tell me during the affair (i knew something was up but it was before DDay) that they were in love with me and wanted to seep me off my feet. You know what I told him? That I loved my H and wanted to be with him and will do whatever it takes. Even though I was being treated a poorly as anyone could be I stood by him. I made it clear to this person I was committed to my H and no one else. Then said I didn't want to have any contact with him any longer. Wasn't right or fair to all parties involved. <P>I remember this and see what it means to be married. What my H should have done. But not everyone is as strong as us. We got it going on!!! So drink from your inner pool of power. Know you have so, so much to offer. Keep your H at bay until you can pick yourself up again. And quit making me cry will ya?<P>I'm thinking of you. Be good to yourself. LSM<P>------------------<BR>Lost Soulmate