Don't remember where I left off, but . . . .

Hello to everyone that has been such a help to me! I'm still here - barely this week (since I'm major PMS). I had left my H for a couple of days - he kept calling and I had no contact and then he "comes by my work" and I tell him that because of our D I want to be at home with her - so she can be with her toys, etc. and he agrees. (However, he comes home that evening and has no plans to leave). I was trying to Plan B - to no avail. Then I called an attorney to see if I would get into any trouble if I changed the locks at home and put his stuff outside. They told me ABSOLUTELY NOT. That he could simply come home - find himself locked out and have the locks changed "again". It would be a vicious cycle - (and he is the type that would do that). Nonetheless, I just slept in my daughter's room and avoided contact with him for the most part. Then I decided to write the OW's parents a letter and let them know that the 22 yr. old child they were supporting along with their illegitimate grandchild, was still indeed having a relationship with my Husband and also sent them a copy of the Bad Check that she had written (that has been forwarded to the D.A.) as well as everything else I knew to be the truth. Of course OW immediately called my H and paged him putting in 911. He calls me and asks me what is the deal with this letter? (always taking up for her) and I told him to ask her - he wouldn't believe me anyway. So he meets her and reads the letter, etc. and acts as if I'm telling lies and starting problems unnecessarily and just acts like a total jerk. Then he tells me that I have "crossed the line" (woo - I was really scared) ha. Then he comes home to get some clothes, etc. and leaves - and I was literally relieved. Then he shows up the next a.m. like he has every right to be there and I simply avoid him and then he says that he is taking our daughter to Atlanta to visit his brother and that I am welcome to go - but there will be no arguing. Needless to say I didn't go, but then my MIL stops by and tells me that she had a visit with OW and OW tells her that my H keeps telling her that he is leaving me when our daughter is older and that he is staying mainly for our daughter. She basically told her how stupid she was and that if he wanted to leave - nothing was keeping him from leaving and that she was being fool, etc. Well of course that didn't sit well with me and I confronted him about that via telephone and he insisted that his mother was quite senile and did not present things as they were, etc. Well I had written out a list of things that I "required" for me to stay in our marriage (almost 3 weeks ago) when he begged me to do it. Has anything been acted upon? No - of course not. I catch him in a lie almost every other day - and then Saturday - I can't even remember now what prompted this - but I had just had enough - I'm tired of being mistreated and him acting as if I'm asking for too much! PLEASE - - - So Saturday he came home and got stuff to leave, etc. and I was "relieved". Then of course Saturday night he called and wanted to talk. I told him we had talked enough, etc. etc. He said "why don't you want me at home with you?" To which I replied "it's not that I don't want you at home - I do, but only under certain conditions - I will not share you with someone else - and that's what I've been doing." So he said fine he understood and that he would take care of it. At 11:25 p.m. he calls and I'm in bed - so I don't answer it - then he keeps calling and finally I answer. He is being Oh so sweet and begging to come home - I've always been who he wanted - he will do anything I ask - just please don't leave him, etc. etc. I said - "fine, come home - but I'm not talking about this tonight." Needless to say he came home and told me how much he loved me and that he had missed me so much and he was so sorry for mistreating me, etc. etc. And then amazingly - Sunday he didn't work and stayed home all day and Monday he didn't work and stayed home all day. Wow - but of course - as typically happens - Tuesday there are some fishy things going on - and then as we are having dinner with some friends - and the OC's babysitter calls my H to tell him her walls are leaking where she has added an addition to her home - and he says he'll call her back in a few minutes. I was livid - he always is the type of person that is admired by other people because he always "is there to help" for everyone, no matter at who's expense it is (usually mine). So not only does he know where the OC is going to daycare he also "personally knows" this person now and is doing favors for her(?) It just hit me the wrong way - and I ask him "how does she have your cell phone #?" And he says "OW gave it to her in case there is an emergency." It just makes me sick that she acts as if he is right there in her daily life living it with her. Ugh - then he was going to take me and my D home with him - instead of taking 2 cars all the way home - and he tells me "You know - I just don't like you - I think it would be best if you drove home." So I said - fine and I did. But then when I got home - I had found out that he indeed "was" on the phone earlier in the day at home because my cell phone # didn't appear on our Caller ID - (another lie) so I told him - out - get out and don't come back! Of course as many times as I ask him to get rid of her - to write her a no contact letter, etc. etc. he never seems to get around to it - but each and every time I ask him to leave - boom - he gets clothes, etc. and leaves. Like he did last night. My D was crying her eyes out begging him to stay and he leaves anyway "because I told him too" Yeah, right. I think he has killed all the love I have for him - I think mainly at this juncture - I want to "win". I want to beat OW and show her he doesn't want her. Isn't that sick - But I think about it and Sunday will be our 6 year anniversary (for being married) and I have spent the last 3 going through this crap with him and her - and I'm not any further along than I was 3 years ago - how many years am I going to waste of my life? Of course today he comes by my office and wants to write the no contact letter to her and tells me that he's just had a hard time trying to figure out what his role is in OC's life and that it's not been about her - but about the OC. Yeah, right. Him writing the letter didn't really do anything for me - I told him it was all in his "attitude". So I have the letter - he asked me to mail it for him. I just feel absolutely totally numb. I don't want to hate him - but I do - and I hate myself too - for allowing this to continue for so long. Ugh - please give me your thoughts guys.------------------

Please don't hate yourself. You allowed things to continue this long because you were mislead by your H that he was wanting to work things out. It is not your fault that you loved and believed him. Everybody reaches the point to where they get tired of believing when they aren't seeing any real result from trying. It's not your fault that you trusted him so long to do the right thing by you and your D. You have stood up for yourself now, and that is all that matters. You take care of yourself, and your D, and don't worry about the H. He made his bed, let him lay in it now. You will always be a winner, even if you lose your H, you will still be a winner over the OW, because you did all you could to honor the vows of your marriage, until it became apparent that you were the only one seriously giving an effort. You've done all you were expected to do, so that makes you a winner. Hugs to you, and I hope that things get easier for you. Always be proud that you have done the right thing for you.

Oh, DD, honey...trust me...you don't want to know what I think.He is amazing!!!! Absolutely amazing!!! Tell him you may have been born at night, but you weren't born LAST NIGHT.His crust is incredible...that he can continually and chronically abuse you, mess with your head, push-pull, push-pull, push-pull you until you believe you have lost your mind, lost any shred of confidence and has probably done untold damage to Chyna...for God's sake, DD...I can hardly stand reading your posts. It makes me crazy to hear how he begs and pleads one moment then tells you he "doesn't like you"??!! What is THAT? C'mon, DD...that's insanity at it's most devious and evil...the manipulation leaves me speechless...I really don't know what to say. Catnip =^^=Edited for temper tantrum...apologies[This message has been edited by catnip (edited September 06, 2000).]

Thanks KT Girl. I just hurts so bad when your spouse thinks that it's easier to run away than to stay and fight - It's almost as if at this point - it would take many many many years of his devotion and honesty to get anything back as far as trust or feelings or anything. It's so sad - it never had to come to this.------------------

Come on Catnip - don't sugar-coat it - please just give it to me straight up! (ha) If I didn't love you so much - I'd almost be pissed - but I know you are just looking out for me. I honestly and truly believe I made the wrong decision 3 years ago, upon discovery. I should have nipped it in the bud, then and there and mourned my losses and avoided all this crap. Now I'm in this holding pattern and not knowing which way to turn. Anxiously awaiting a move from him (that's not going to be made now, anymore than it was made 3 years ago). I've just got to get stronger. I am so beaten down emotionally and my self-esteem is almost non-existent. My therapist tells me "I look so very tired and unhappy". Yeah - tell me about it. I'm sorry to upset you with my posting.------------------

DD, Honey:You didn't upset me...He did. I can't stand what he is doing to you. I know you're caught in this bizarre mind game and it's confused you and annihilated you. To me, this is unforgivable to heap this treatment on you on top of the damage he caused with the OW and ultimately the OC to begin with.Be pissed at me if you must, but I meant what I said...he is abusing you and abusing your daughter and I don't understand how someone can claim to love someone and continue to do these terrible things.If he stopped it all today and put body and soul and heart into the Harley principles and cut off all contact with XOW, was accountable for all his whereabouts...no more sneakiness and lies...then begin the repair process. Start the recovery, make sure you aren't doing it all by yourself, all alone. There's a terrible imbalance here. There ususally is in the beginning. I had five months of it during the withdrawal. But no one should have to endure this for three years. It kills the spirit, it closes the heart and confuses the mind. All I care about, DD, is you and your daughter. Nothing on earth would please me more than to see you and your husband back together in a healthy loving, mutually giving marriage with the OW put in her place so you two could rediscover each other and repair your marriage.I'm sorry I called your spouse King Skunk. I was really mad at him. It isn't as bad as what I used to call my spouse, so it's a horse a piece. My rant/vent was really a defense of you against him. I just wanted to shake him senseless.Hey, my temper is the catalyst for my outrageous actions...just ask my OW... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I have your best interests at heart, DD, and I have come to care a great deal for you over the past year and a half...catnip =^^=

Oh Cat - Honey I know the motivation behind your anger - and don't think I haven't said 10,000,000 times worse things to him myself. I know that he is abusing me and I am "allowing" him to do just that. I have to find the strength within myself to get away from him once and for all - (or like you said - if divine intervention occurred and he was transformed into the person he should have been three years ago). My MIL says that he is so "in the world" and the devil has him by the neck and is just trying to destroy him and his family and my H is just rolling out the red carpet. I bet you from 1 minute to the next I can feel totally different about what "I'm going to do." I'm not mad at you whatsoever - everything you've ever said about him is true - I know that - it's probably worse than what I post - it just hurts me that someone else can see it too - because then I KNOW IT'S FOR REAL - He too often makes me believe that I'm the only one that thinks this way or feels this way - and when that's what you hear all the time - a part of you actually believes it - but deep down I KNOW - it just hurts so badly for the person you love the most can and HAS hurt you over and over and over and over. Sorry - I'm having a "down" day today. I hope that you will try to meet me in Atlanta near the end of the month!------------------

DD: Alas! Atlanta plans have been scrubbed due to the postponement of the Dallas trip from the 15th to the 22nd when I planned to be in Atlanta.The Dallas attorney's wife is scheduled for a C-section on the 15th, so we had to bump up the (OW lawsuit) deposition a week.According to the OW, I can get anywhere on my broom. So, don't be surprised...Catnip =^^=

DD, "I know that he is abusing me and I am "allowing" him to do just that. I have to find the strength within myself to get away from him once and for all -" Knowing is half the battle and you are moving forward even though you don't feel like you are, you know what is true even though it hurts so much and I feel as if you are reaching your "end". Don't beat yourself up about anything DD, you are going through enough, take care of you and Chyna.

DD:Edited my post. Temper tantrum run amuck. I apologize. It wasn't my place to say what I did. Your story infuriates me and from now on, I will not post right away until I've cooled down....you know, simma down now.I'd be mad at me, too, if I were you. I wish I didn't care so much, life would be so much easier. (sigh)Love,Catnip =^^=

dd, glad to see you around. we wonder about you when you aren't here for awhile. you are sounding so much stronger. i have seen a big change since i first started reading your story. you need to keep this up. don't let your H keep playing these games. you deserve better. you have put in well over 100%, no one can say you didn't give it more than your all. if he loses you, it is his loss. i agree with catnip, he would have to do a complete turnaround, no more contact at all with OW. and no more lies. i hate those the most. i hate what your H has been doing to you and your daughter. it is just not right.please take care. you will be in my prayers. happy_girl

Hi DD, Please know that we are here for you and share your pain. I've never learned the art of "beating around the bush," and I just "call 'em as I see 'em." (That has caused me some trouble sometimes in the past, but at least people know exactly where I stand. Here is my response to your situation. Honey, you have done your share and then some. Although I agree in theory with Dr. Harley's principles, sometimes the situation calls for something else. YOU are sinking fast, and your H doesn't care. So YOU need to take care of YOU. Believe me, we all know how painful it is to think of life w/out our spouses, but you need to consider how life is going to be WITH your spouse, considering his low level of commitment to you and your marriage. I know, I know... Plan A or Plan B or Plan X, Y, Z...Listen, as long as your H can have the best of both worlds, he's going to take it. As my counselor told me when I wept and said, "I can't imagine life without my H." He said, "What kind of life will you have WITH your H?" Please, please. Begin THIS MINUTE starting to detach yourself emotionally from your H. Make plans for yourself..You can do it. I have followed your posting and your story, and it is apparent that you are dealing with a man who is unwilling or unable to put you and your D first. Think of what lessons your D must be internalizing about trust, men, marriage, commitment, etc. How will that influence HER choices as an adult? My parents were utterly mismatched. Although I loved them both, they did not belong together but stayed married "for the sake of the children." Six months after the last of us got married and left home, my mother divorced my father after 35 years of a painful marriage and had 3 wonderful, happy years of life...then she died. When I look back on their lives, I feel nothing but sadness for the years they both wasted just to stay married "for the sake of the children." None of us wanted them to do that. My dear DD, please get a good counselor to help YOU detach from your selfisdh H and find your own beauty and strength as a person. Then find a good attorney to make sure you get a fair settlement in your divorce proceedings. Let's face it. You're going to be in emotional pain regardless of what you do. But at least if you get rid of your H, you can heal and see an end to the pain. With him, it will become a way of life for you. You deserve better. Take care.

Dear DD: Hi there! I haven't been posting lately, mainly because I have been on vacation ,and getting back and work... but I have been reading all the postings. You stole my heart though...I admire you DD, believe it or not you are stronger than anybody in this "club"! However as catnip and the others wrote...I am also concerned that your marriage is becoming abusive in ALL the word. Your D is also being abused and that is not right. I believe you are a wonderful person and you deserve to be happy. I have been married as much as you have and gone through HELL and BACK too!, but not for 3 years. If my H would have been like yours I would be in a different posting group ...if you know what I mean. I have learned the most important lesson and that is TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF, you have to take care of yourself, your Daughter first! If he is not taking care of you and your D, and not treating you with respect, love and he is not showing you how thankfull he should be because you forgave him after he betrayed you , and he does not show admiration for the wonderful mother and wife that you are...well then he needs to go away REALLY!!! You are ok and you have done nothing wrong, but it is time for you to decide if you want to continue this abuse or ended all for once. Too many chances, too much time, too much pain DD. fambis

DD, it's been a while since I've responded to your posts or even posted myself. But I think about you all the time.It's time to Plan B and for you to ask your H to leave once and for all. No coming home, no calls. You need some time to be alone. If he begs you to reconsider tell him you need some time to think about it. Buy yourself some time. If he insists tell him to give you a month. During that time and being alone you will see how much easier life would be on your own. How it's not as scary once he's gone. How you'll get use to the extra closet space, coming home to a clean house, having the remote and TV all to yourself, spending a peacful quiet dinner with your D. It's amazing once you've experienced it a short time how much better you feel.You don't need to continue to torture yourself. Your H may not be intentially trying to break your spirit but if he isn't strong enough first of all to see that's what he's doing and second of all to stop himself from doing so then you need to be. If he truly wants to be with you but can't see that he's only hurting you and maybe he needs to let you go and accept that you deserve better then he's not worth keeping. You've made so many sacrifices over the last 3 years. It's time for him to make some. One of them may be to let you go, indefinately. Who knows. Maybe this is exactly what is needed to help your H see the light. But you and your D do not need to be put through any more of these games. That's all they are. Games. Get out of it DD. Quit playing his games. You are a better person. Don't allow him to keep dragging you down with him. Be strong for me DD. I need you to be strong.------------------ Lost Soulmate"Character is doing what's right, when no one is looking"

Dear DD..I havent had a chance to read all your posts to know the whole story, but heres some insight on what I just read. You said that you are relieved when he is gone and not all that happy to hear from him. Its not unusual to hate to hear his voice at times, but at the same time miss him when hes gone. You are relieved when he is gone...I think that says it all. Time to live for your daughter and yourself. Sounds to me like youll be happier after the withdrawl wears off. You are in my prayers. God Bless... I am woman...hear me roar!!!!!

DD,Three years of the type of torture you describe is an awfully long time so if you are happier when he is not around it seems that your feelings are speaking to you - loud and clear. I will be praying that you are making the right decision.Meanwhile, on behalf of all your loyal friends on this board -- please -- send the no contact letter to the OW. For all that you have endured, you deserve the satisfaction of knowing that she got the letter.Take care of you and lean on us ... - Heavenly

Hi Daycare,Happy birthday!I think you are missing something in your quest to win over the OW. You are missing you. You will always loose in this attempt to win. Because you have no control over your H.If you really want to win divorce your H and let the OW have him. Because what he does to you he will do to her. Sometimes the worst thing to happen can be your wishes come true. Think about it. You will have peace of mind. She will have to be the one to wonder what he is doing and with whom. If you want him to leave than get a seperation. Get an order of Spouce protection. The house I purchased the couple got a divorce and she barred him from living there via this method. Look into it. Go ahead and change the locks. Stop the cycle. Daycare I am sorry you have to go through this but at this point you are no longer a victim but a willing participant in this sick game. Do you want your child to think that it is ok to treaded this way? What would you do if her H was treating you this of way? You deserve more than this type of exsitance. Not trying to be mean but really see what you have and what you are worth. He is just playing you and pushing all your buttons.

Daycare, I hope that I did not offend you in anyway. If I have I am very sorry. That was not my intention at all. I want to see you happy again. If I have hurt you in anyway I am very sorry.

DD,I just want you to know that I am thinking about you. I am worried. I don't think I need to say anything else, Catnip and the others have said it all, I agree. I too feel that you need to stop the pain, and I know you can do it. I am pulling for you. babstr.

Hey - no Pak. you did not hurt me in any way. This whole situation hurts in many many ways - and on the advice of someone here - I did mail the no contact letter. My H kept asking me to do it - and finally I thought - what the hey. So I did - and she got it and was livid (suppossedly)not necessarily the contents - but the fact that he would write it in the first place. So she called him Sunday and told him that she didn't want or needs his money and that he could only see the OC at the babysitter's and not with me - nor at our home. Ha - at least she got a little taste of a problem. But I'm living my life now for me - and my D - there will be no more verbal abuse or "extreme" behavior on either part. I'm just taking time out for me and searching for what I want and need. It'll probably be a long journey. Thanks guys for your help.------------------

Hi Daycare,I am glad that I did not offend you. I was really worried that I was causing more pain on top of an already painful place in your life.I think it is a good idea to really take time for you. Be strong with your H and let him know your boundries.I just want you to know that I really know how it feels. Tony has emotionally abused me for so long. I still feel such an empty place inside of me. I doubt myself all the time. I use to be such a nice person now I am either dead inside or so full of rage. I am not me anymore. I have decided that I am just going to find me again and what I want and need out of life.I mean I guess I am lucky because I have no children and Tony has not fathered any children with all his women. He is going to therapy for all his issues. In July while in Nantucket he got drunk and made a pass at his sisters best friend. He told me he got drunk just left that bit out until a week ago. He was kind enough to tell me while we were on vaction. I think Tony knows he is on his last legs. Durring vacation I just told him that he has done enough. I informed him that I just did not love him anymore. He would have to work very hard to win me back and get his life in order. If he does not by the new year I am going to ask him to leave.So Daycare I know what it is like. I also know we deserve better.

Hi again Pat. Sorry for your pain - I too believe my H has some sort of "problem". I can very verbally abusive (only when provoked, due to Chris' lies or his attacks on me). My mother was very verbally abusive with us as kids and to my father as well - and she still is to this day. While I was growing up "it was normal". Now I know it's not and it kills me to hear her talk to my dad. Then when me and my H get into an argument and I see "my mother" in me - I just freak. However, I don't have to "react". I'm working hard on that.My H too - like Tony has some obsessive traits. My H - if the house was burning down - he would be too busy organizing the cabinet or making sure everything was picked up and put in it's proper place rather than to focus on what's "at hand". He has always had a weakness for women and especially with women who are down on their luck or or someone he can "help" and be the knight in shining armour. I don't know how many females he has helped with money problems, boyfriend problems, you name it - he simply has no boundaries and until perhaps recently (time will tell) never realized it was causing a problem in his life. I hope that you and I can realize our own self worth and realize that life is too short to "settle." You know, these men don't realize that it would take a lot of work to get that "love" feeling back. It makes me feel like I will never let myself care about someone that wholly again - because it's too painful.------------------

Hey Daycare,Oh how I know the focus on everything but the issue at hand. Tony's number one favorite excuse is "The system is at fault". My number one pat answer back is the system did not make you try and pick up your sisters best friend this summer.It just gets old. Right now Tony is doing everything in his power to make me happy. The sad thing is that a) I know it is because he is scared to loose me and b) it is only temporary. He does this every so once in a while to get back in my good graces. I am sorry you have to deal with this. I wish I could wave my wand and make it all go away and change your H. Do you think because your Mom was verbally abusive you have that pattern in your mind set that now you allow your H to do the same? My sister would always tell me how ugly I was and that no one would love me. My Mom never really did anything to stop my sister so I feel by her in-activity she basically santioned it. I have tried talking to my Mom about how she so loved my sister that she did not care for me but Mom does not see it. I think it helped and hindered me. I am super independent but at the same time I really have problems with my self worth. I devalue myself all the time in everything I do.