OW coming to dinner - Marriage Builders® Forums

Ok,now that I got your attention here goes. She wants to come over to see the babies room and get to know me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She wants to feel comfortable with starting the visits. I know its not my job to make her feel comfortable and not really my place as the BS. BUT, I feel as a mother myself, I can see this reasoning. Oh I'm not cooking dinner! Just kidding about that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> My thing has anyone else done this? Did it go well? And if not why? Everyone knows here that we want and will do contact. Papers are in the works, which she wants to talk about too. I am a supporter of C when possible and do not see why it cant be done for these childern that did not ask for what they are having to live. As long as the anger is gone and forgivness is sincere and we adults act as such. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I think it can be done and done right. And do you think C is better when it starts out from the start or waiting? My M is growing stronger, not perfect, never will be, but H is making an effort to do everything we have agreed upon. So what do ya think.

Hi,

If it is to make things run smoother, I am all for it. I would talk with my OW in a heartbeat and be very nice to her if it would save my marriage. You and husband is what matters. Just make sure your husband is in perfect agreement with the arrangement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh and would like to add. As far as a MB concept. I think if people are in agrreement from the start about C, then making this work is part of my poja and his. To put me first and for me to welcome a part of him into our family.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Boy that's a loaded one!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmmm - let me think how I would feel. Ok - personally I think NO coming to dinner or see baby's room. Why - - it's your house as a couple and what's in it and how you decorate is none of her business. She's invaded your life already. I say keep contact pleasant (or as pleasant as a difficult situation can be) and in a sense treated like a business relationship. I would wonder about ulterior motive - yes still and yes no matter how she appears to have gotten over it. Keep her at a distance. IMO - (and you have to realize and that it is my opinion and don't get yourself in a twit because I said it) - I think you're trying overly hard to please. Make sense? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi Sunny,

I think InaNutshell has a point. You really don't want her invading your territory. Maybe you can meet her as requested but at a neutral spot such as McDonald's or something. Make sure this is agreed on by your husband.

Well actually she has already invaded my territory by sleeping w/ H, even though we where seperated, but no matter. I know in my heart and soul that she is a mother, just as I. Not all agree w/ the fact that I give a rats behind how hard it would be to let go of a new born. But I do and I would have a hard time w/it also. Why do I care if she feels comfortable? Because the baby will since it and therefore? Makes it harder on him. I wouldn't do anything to cause him discomfort, I want to love him and God said to love and show it! If it means giving up a pc of my space, for a few hours, then so be it. Look what Christ gave up for me (US). Do I worry, heck yes! I am nervious, YOU BET YA! Will I make the best of a bad situation, YES, with the strength from God! So no, dont mind the "you got to be crazy post, or the "what tha" I just want to be an example of being grown up and do the right thing for MY, and mine alone, family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> See God is Good, and I am going to do my best, what ever it is.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Have you and your H been to HER house to see the room she has set up for the baby ?
Why not ?
Whats the difference ?

No, but when we go p/u him for visits, i'll ask. two wrongs dont make a right. I know when i'm judged, god will not weep for me!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

"I go to prepare a place, and in that place there are many manisons, so there you may be there also. I want mine on main street not in the back alley. Not to say anyone here will be there, (In the alley, I mean.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> No man, no woman is worth making him disappointed in me and my actions.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Amen, Sunny, Amen!!!!

N61, you know you can come too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

I see what you are saying sunny, but I don't think it is necessary for her to come to your home. What you have done for her baby is your business not hers. As a mother I would be concerned to, but not to the fact of not trusting your H with the baby. It does not matter what environment the baby is in it is his child too. He has the right just as she to do whatever when it is his time. So I think the visit is unnecessary why do it?

You are not here to make her comfortable, if it is his time with the baby then it is his time - She can't stop that if it is done legally She has no say in that.

So I would say no NO DINNER!

JMO - okay

JT

[ October 08, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]

Sunny -

Ok, what time shall I arrive?

Can we have drinks first? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I know its not my problem weither she is comfortable or not. And I dont have to do it. But me and H are as a team and we want her to be ok w/ leaving him. Yes we dont have too, legally we can tell her to kiss our behinds. Does that make us better by doing that? Not in my eyes. Why add fuel to the fire? Why not everyone compromise to put all of it behind you and go on? I shouldn't have to, but if you are truely wanting to do what is right and fair then why not? And what is best for my family is what I am doing. My D has met him and she wants to spend time w/ him. Now we can make her (ow) feel comfortable and make it easy for everyone, and get it started off right or make it harder on everyone and at the same time make the attorney's rich.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

I was going to ask the same thing as tigger, will you be invited over to see how she is caring for your H's child?

However, it's your decision on how to handle it. If you are happy with this plan, that's all that matters.

Hi Sunny,

I have to agree with JT2, I really don't think it is necessary to have her coming to your home...H is OC's parent also, and so u will be too for that matter. Honestly, I think OW is probably more curious to see your home & space more than out of concern for the OC...and this will probably get her jealous and riled up...get her to thinking what she is missing or would probably have if she were in your shoes as MM's wife. I wouldn't do it. Let her have some things to wonder about like we wonder about OW being with our H, and not ever really knowing the whole story. Why should she know and see everything??? I mean really, is she entitled to this??? I am not being mean, and I know u are trying to make this all about the OC, and comfort for all...but make sure it is really and truly comfortable for u first. I am just trying to avoid more unncessary problems arising.

Well just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Sunny,

As an "OW" who's 4+ years into this, I can honestly say that when it came to my little guy, it had nothing to to with the labels of xMM or BS. It was all about me being a mom and wanting to be sure my baby was well cared for. Your willingness to even consider this, much less actually doing it, goes a long way (at least with me). Were it me, it would help me to see that, regardless of OUR situation, baby will still be "treated right". For me, I notice the actions, not the words. If I saw that you had taken time and put thought into how my child would be provided for in your home, it would help put me at ease, which in turn would help a lot towards reaching the level of cooperation that needs to occur if contact is going to work.

Also, just a life perspective of mine, but if we continue to fight the battles, when does the war end? We have to pick our battles carefully, because if we fight every time there is an opportunity, it will never end. If you have the strength and faith (I mean this for all involved parties) for contact, then you're basically agreeing to all parent this one little child. OW, xMM and BS are assuming the responsibility of molding this child into an adult. The question is, what kind of adult do you want him/her to be? For my situation, we've agreed that it will be a "team" effort, for lack of a better description. We set differences aside for the sake of this child, and agree that we will do what is best for him (with regard to parenting). Yes, we still have the occasional squabble, but overall, our involvement is for Jonas' sake. We're not a part of each other's life just for the he!! of it. If we're going to invest the time and the effort, then we're going to do it right.

OB1

I found out about my stepson right before he turned 7. He is now 9 yrs old. We live 800 miles apart.
When I first found out about him and OW my H was stationed in another state. (military) when he came home for 4 days. I packed him up and our 4 kids and drove to where my stepson and his mother live. I wanted to meet him and also his mother. my family picked him up and stayed in a hotel with him. I spent a couple of hours a day with his mom talking about their 11 yr affair.
a couple of months later my stepson and his mother came to my home. (my H wasnt there he was back at his duty station) Jami (OW) stayed 3 or 4 days in my home. I wanted her to feel comfortable leaving Tylor with me for a month. I wanted Tylor to feel comfortable being left with me for a month.
We went shopping together, we did yard work together. We got to know each other. My kids got to know her and they like her. when she went to stay with my MIL and my sister for 2 weeks each. She was comfortable with the situation.
My H came home for 4 days and spent some time with Tylor and us as a family. We needed that time to bond as a family.
I also wanted his mother to see that I had accepted Tylor into my life and into my home. by getting him his own things (bed, dresser, etc.)
I think it was important to do this for Tylor. He didnt have any knowledge of me or my children until I had found out about him. I think if he had just came to me without his mom and without the chance to get to know each other before hand it would have really been a mess.
I believe C can work.
I cannot go back and change the past and erase what they did but I can make the future better and all the fighting and bickering and power struggles would only hurt the kids in the end.
I think all the kids involved in our situation are doing very well with it. Tylor is 9, our children are 11,10,10 and 6. (I also have a 23 yr old son from a previous marraige and a 27 yr old daughter in heaven). THey all know the truth.
IF all goes as we plan hopefully we will all spend Christmas together.

[ November 21, 2004, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: litlone ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by litlone:


Not sure if you remember from my few and scattered posts; but I would love nothing more than to have Sweet Pea be a part of our lives. I love children and she is a part of my H; therefore a part of me. I learned to accept the A and accepted Sweet Pea as soon as I met and held her in my arms. H and I met with Xow a couple times to visit with the baby. I didn't in any way over step my bounds even tho' I wanted to. Everything went fine the first couple of visits. She was the one to get out of line almost as soon as CS was set up and eventually stopped contact without notice.
<hr /></blockquote>Gosh this touched me...

I remember my first visit with the baby. I jumped out of the van and ran to see this beautiful lil baby. As soon as I said Heyyyy baby....She reached out to me and immediately I fell in love. Holding her for the first time felt so comfy, like I had always had her there. Never forget Ow's face at that moment. That was the beginning of it all.

I only wanted what was best for her. Ow saw me as a threat. I thought she would see how much I truly did care by my interraction with the baby instead she became enraged. Visits after that were painful...

But thankfully we got set visitation and within the next month our new life will begin...

Really excited!! Scared yes...BUT EXCITED...

[ October 08, 2004, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: SaphireBlueUs2 ]

Sunny said
Now we can make her (ow) feel comfortable and make it easy for everyone, and get it started off right or make it harder on everyone and at Now we can make her (ow) feel comfortable and make it easy for everyone, and get it started off right or make it harder on everyone and at the same time make the attorney's rich.

Amen Sunny........My attorney and his attorney have been having a big ole party on us.....Good luck and I'm praying that the visit goes well and God gives you strenght to get through it. I can imagine how strange it may feel.

d

[ November 28, 2004, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by baba2:
 WHEN SHE COMES OFFER HER A BIG PIECE OF CHOCOLATE X-LAX CAKE!

(She will have diarreaha for a week!) <hr /></blockquote>LOL! That's Great Baba2!!!

It was so much fun when we did that to the boys-
in the SIXTH grade.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Sunny,
I think it's great that you are allowing OW to come into your home. I think it's even BETTER that you've made a room for the baby. It sounds like you're a remarkable woman, and because of that, this child should feel so much love in your home.
I also think the comment about seeing OW's house isn't too far out of line. If you both understand how things are run in each other's homes, the transition form home to home should be less traumatic for the child.
I'd recommend sometime in the future (I know he's just a baby now) that you all get together and work on a "Rules and Discipline" agreement. This is a big area where adults tend to disagree. If you can all mutually agree on a plan of action, it will benefit all. The child will be less confused about appropriate behavior and consequences, and the adults won't have to explain why it's "OK at Mommy's house, but NOT OK at Daddy's house". KWIM?

Regardless, Kudos to you for accepting this child into your home and into your heart.
I wish you the best of luck, I hope it works out well for everyone.

Originally posted by Tylorsstepmom:
. I spent a couple of hours a day with his mom talking about their 11 yr affair.

11 years... eleven years....

Why do you think the A lasted so long? Do you live in Utah?

Pep

I didn't read the replies, but I just wanted to say I think you're doing VERY well.

Personally, I think she has EVERY right to expect to see your home, as your H (and you, I suppose) does to see hers.

I wouldn't let me child set FOOT in his father's house without my seeing it first, but of course I'd open my door to let him (them) see my home as well.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Pepperband:
 Originally posted by Tylorsstepmom:
. I spent a couple of hours a day with his mom talking about their 11 yr affair.

11 years... eleven years....

Why do you think the A lasted so long? Do you live in Utah?

Pep <hr /></blockquote>Pep I can see you saying that to me, but she is one of you........a fbw.

Its a long story.
My H and I married in 1988. I had 2 children from a previous marraige.
My H was in the navy. He accepted my children as his own. He had a very close relationship with my daughter.
In 1991 my daughter was diagnosed with leaukemia. she went thru very intense chemo therapy. We almost lost her a couple of times. I thought our marrage was great. I thought everything was fine. I know I spent alot of time at the hospital with my daughter.
My sister was diagnosed with breast cancer. I flu to mo. to be there with her during her masectomy for a week. in Nov of 92 my father was diagnosed with esaphagus cancer, he died a month later. It was very hard to deal with the death of my father. He was my rock. It was so sudden. Still I thought my marraige was fine, we were very close. we did things together. we never fought.
In feb 93 we adopted a baby girl. She was/is such a joy.
In Oct 93 we found out that my daughter (16 now) was pregnant. 3 days later we found out I was pregnant.
My granddaughter was born June 24,1994 1 week later my oldest daughter relapsed with the leaukemia and the search was on for a bone marrow donor. My daughter was born 1 month after my granddaughter.
My duaghter had her transplant in Feb of 1995. she passed away in may of 1995. a month later my sisters breast cancer had spread to her brain.
my grandmother died suddenly in Dec 1995. my sister died in Feb 1996.
we went thru a custody battle to keep custody of my granddaughter who had now become my daughter thru death. We finally won.
My H was in the navy and gone most of the time. I went thru most of this alone.
we found out I was pregnant in 1997. I had a son in Feb 1998. The navy transferred us to another state. in June of 2000 my mother was had a couple of strokes and was diagnosed with parkinsons desease. Me and my kids moved to Ark. so I could take care of her. My H lived in the barracks. My mom died less than a year later.
My H had 2 yrs till retirement and we had bought a home so we decide to keep things the same. He wont come home for 4 or 5 days every 3 or 4 months. In march of 2001 he was home for 10 days. we were supposed to get a large income tax refund. we didnt I called to find out why. They told me back child support.
I confronted him he confessed. He met her right after my daughter was diagnosed. It started out as friends. He says he needed someone to talk to about my daughter it was hard to watch her struggle for her life. after a yr it became physical. Their son was born 1 month before my daughter died. The physical part ended when we were transferred away in 1998. the still had the emotional A going by phone and e-mail until right after my mother passed away.
it is not easy I deal with the pain of the betrayel everyday. Knowing that while my daughter was fighting for her life and losing it. they were making a baby. Sometimes I feel like I was punished. that I lost my daughter and they were blessed with a new child.
I have to accept the past. I cannot change it but by the grace of God I can move on and be the best mother and wife and stepmother that I can.
THe affair was alot more painful than the loss of my daughter.

Pep
Oh. No I do not live in Utah. We did live in California till my H's transfer to Illinios. Then when my mom got ill we moved to Arkansas.

Now that I reread your post it seems you may ve been insinuating something. I hope I am wrong and you are just curious.

I dont know what to think now. the past 15 yrs of my life has been pure Hell. I am finally thru the fire. I feel like we made it. 2 yrs of recovery and I didnt think we would but we did. I am glad. Maybe you think I am stupid for staying. Maybe I am but that was my choice.

Sunny, I think others fear you becoming too lax in boundaries w/xow; you know, just make sure you protect yourself and marriage. Xow is not there to pass judgement!

Beyond that, I sincerely admire your open heart to doing all you can to make visitation work for everyone involved. You've got a big warm heart and I hope your H and even xow fall over themselves in appreciation and don't take you for granted. You're a good stepmom and mom.

Let us know how it goes! Hug and a prayer!

sunnyhunnybunny..........

I can honestly say I have been down this road.
I regret it. Unlike ohters here I would NEVER allow OW to be IN my house again much less stay in my house for any length of time.

I was the one who initiated OW coming to our house. I thought it would be 'nice', a good-faith effort if you will, to let her see how we live, where we live...to 'help her feel more comfortable'.

Showed her OC room that I had made ready for her, I had gone shopping as well, took pride & joy in shopping for my new step-daughter. I enjoyed the change & fun of shopping for a girl now instead of my boys. Dreamed of how it would be when my own daughter would be born soon after.

I was sincere. We had a bar-b-q.
************
************
OW SAID she was appreciative BUT her actions showed otherwise. Soon after, the accusations began. WE were responsible for everything from OC 'sudden' low self esteem to OC having a bad dream!

You know what I have shared sunny & what we have been through.
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To me, I see this as a violation of boundaries. Once you allow this....what next? Ow asks to meet the grandparents? I know I have said this before here------it is ridiculous!

Your H is the father-----he is NOT required to be interviewed to see what kind of dad he is! I'm sorry but NO WAY!

Realistically-------a meeting such as this----doesn't prove what kind of people you are anyway. OF COURSE you would be on your best behavior while OW was there & that is not realistic! And yah-----unless you are interviewing her in her home---- even more--NO WAY!!!!
**************
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This will be the first hoop of many. The first of MANY over-stepped boundaries to come.
************
************
We took what seemed like forever before we even introduced OC to her bio-grandparents (H parents)---just to 'take things slow' & not 'overwhelm' OC to 'all the changes in her life' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> YAH but OC could start a NEW daycare center w/ tons of strangers but she couldn't even meet her own grandparents who were waiting patiently???? Get real!

AND THEN, OW wanted to meet H parents FIRST! I had to draw the line somewhere! I said heck no on that. I let her into my home but that was enough. She was NOT going to meet the rest of the family-it would be a very cold day you know where before that would happen.
*********
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The more I thought about it afterward the more insulted I became. HOW DARE she even QUESTION what kind of mother I am or what kind of father my H is! And if so then I should have every right to interregate her just as much.
***********
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If my H is of low character (but good enough to sleep w/) then she would be just as well right?

I offered her that same kind of respect & benefit of the doubt that having a child (& then another w/ someone else who is not around) had changed her & she had matured the years since the A, just as my H had. Obviously if my H was capable of change----she could be too.

Unfortuneately, that benefit of the doubt was not given in return. She had no problem pointing out how this was 'none of my business'...'didn't concern me'....and gave my H pamphlets on what to expect from children's behavior ect! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> As if having 3 of our own (w/ one 5 years older than oc) didn't qualify as EXPERIENCE raising kids!

OW constantly referred to H 'previous' behavior while forgetting that she was involved in that behavior herself. Constantly accusing him of not being 'trustworthy'.......but I was to believe that SHE was?????????

talk about NOT leaving the past in the past!!!!! sheezzzz!!!!
************
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I can go on & on.

I am NOT saying that it will be like this for YOU two (three, four).

But some of the behavior you have described of your OW is VERY similar to STOW behavior.

So my major concern for you right now is to remind you to set up those BOUNDARIES EARLY so that you can avoid some of these situations/problems that we ran into as well.

I know you are really trying here, I believe sincerely.

I just think this is TOO much out of the way.

H is the father.....he was already 'interviewed' for the 'job' over 9 months ago so there's no need for a 'follow-up'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kwim?

OW chose him for the father so good or bad------the decision has already been made!!!!!

**************
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xxx
ooo
kt
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PS: I have a hard time even reading your posts because your story is starting to sound so similiar to mine it triggers me & brings back all those painful memories that I am finally starting to be able to forget!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> LOL can you tell?lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by meNtheboyz:

Personally, I think she has EVERY right to expect to see your home, as your H (and you, I suppose) does to see hers.

<hr /></blockquote>I vehemently disagree....

The entire purpose and goal of posting here is to support and create a BOARD CULTURE that is PRO-MARRIAGE.

We support and advise choices that will be most likely to bring stability and love back into the MARRIAGE HOME. THAT is the #1 priority and purpose of this board.

What a mother of OC thinks her "rights" are is interesting, but I am afraid it is moot to the CULTURE of MARRIAGE BUILDING here of this board.

You are perfectly entitled to post your opinions, however, I think it would be more honest of you to preface your opinions as this:

--->MY OPINION IS NOT INTENDED TO SUPPORT THE MARRIAGE BUT TO SUPPORT THE NEEDS OF OW AND / OC<---

And then post your opinion.... WHY?

Because any newbie BW or BH reading your NON-MARRIAGE BUILDING opinions may feel an increased sense of loss and insecurity.

And that's just wrong. People come here for marriage help.

Be honest ... give your opinions a disclaimer like ---> ..NOT HELPFUL TO MARRIAGE.. <---

because, as you know, your focus is not on the marriage. And I am certain you would not want to do unintended harm to the newbies who might mistake your purpose as MARRIAGE BUILDING advice, when you know this is not true.

Your opinion that the the OW should "inspect the marriage home" is NOT sound MARRIAGE BUILDING advice. It completely contradicts the concepts of the founders of this site, the Harleys.

If you would like to read the concepts, I would ask you to focus your reading on Harley's emphasis on NO CONTACT with the former lover.... in order to PROTECT the MARRIAGE.

Any woman who invites their spouse's former OP into the home, needs to be very, very careful.... this sort of intimacy and contact could rekindle affections between the lovers, and again THREATEN the marriage.

Pep

[ October 10, 2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Originally posted by Tylorsstepmom:

Oh. No I do not live in Utah. We did live in California till my H's transfer to Illinios. Then when my mom got ill we moved to Arkansas.

Now that I reread your post it seems you may ve been insinuating something. I hope I am wrong and you are just curious.

Your story of bringing OW into your home, making her feel welcome after her 11 year disrespect of your marriage, gardening together, etc, reminded me very much of another BW I used to converse with. (on a different board a few years ago)

She lived on the Utah border, but was not LDS... however, this BW caved in to her WH's desires, and she agreed to allow her WH to move the OW and her 2 kids into the family home with their 2 kids to live a polgamous lifestyle.... after a long secret affair.

My friend, the BW, tried her very best to make the OW and her 2 kids a part of her family. The WH would sleep with both women, on different nights. In other words, they shared a husband.

This arrangement lasted about 3 months. It ended when my friend made a suicide attempt on her life! She was a "people pleaser" extrordinairre ... she sacrificed her values, her desires, and her needs in order to make her WH happy....and it nearly killed her.

So...... reading your story, put chills down my neck. I am very wary when a BW makes excessive ovatures to accomodate the needs of others who have purposely done her harm.... it just makes me really nervous.

2 yrs of recovery and I didnt think we would but we did. I am glad. Maybe you think I am stupid for staying. Maybe I am but that was my choice.

We are 8 years (almost 9) recovered.

I do not think you are stupid for staying.

You said "Maybe I am but that was my choice." ... I am fine with your choice to recover your marriage.

I do confess, I have some difficulty with your choice to befriend the OW to such an extent.

I think that an 11 year affair means this (difficult to write, sorry) ... Your WH and OW love each other deeply. I doubt that has changed. Please guard your home from any further infidelity. It can happen easily enough the "usual" way. But if the OW who was/is very much still loved by the WH is *invited* into your home as a welcome guest....

JUST BE CAREFUL!!!!

You know what the vampire legend says.... "You must invite the Vampire inside" .... and once they are inside.... they do what vampires do!

Best of luck to you. ENJOY your MARRIAGE and your FAMILY

Pep

[ October 10, 2004, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Hey Sunny!

I agree with a lot of others here. I would not, ever agree to let this woman in your home. She has no right - oc or not- to "inspect" and "approve" your home. Years ago H's ex wanted to stir up this kind of thing about not knowing me, etc...

H said we'll take pictures for you. He and I also told her that just because he is with me now, does not change the fact that he is and always was a good father to her kids-- also, that she was INSANE if she thought he was such a lousy father and human being that he'd let ANYONE hurt thier children!! PA-Leease!

This is just a way for her to try to show that she has the upper hand. I say the mere fact that you have been as decent as you have been already speaks volumes for you.

Simply, no woman who slept with my H will EVER step foot in my house- unless she wants to come ovr and clean it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Originally posted by needtomoveon:

.My attorney and his attorney have been having a big ole party on us.....

NTMO...

I do understand your desire to make certain you child is safe at all times. I would NOT say you have a "right to inspect" BW's home yourself ... I would say you have a "responsibility to protect" your child.

And, this is where the legal system steps in.

To protect the child, to make sure all parties are responsible... a COURT APPOINTED inspection (of all places the OC will be) by a neutral person is necessary.

Too bad about the costs. The attorney costs are all due to the irresponsibility of the adulterors to respect boundaries.

The attorney fees are a small price to pay for knowing your child is safe during the visit.

Cutting corners is where the adulterors messed up in the first place.

It's the "cost of doing business" for the families victimized by affairs.

Pep

She wants to come over to see the babies room and get to know me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She wants to feel comfortable with starting the visits. I know its not my job to make her feel comfortable and not really my place as the BS. BUT, I feel as a mother myself, I can see this reasoning.

This is the job of the courts.

If you by-step the legalities... there will be very murky boundaries (again) in your marriage.

I do not feel this is the way you should approach this.

Yes, OW has a responsibility to be certain her baby is safe.... Go the legal route.

If arranging this OW contact will weaken the boundaries (fences in Christian terms) of your sacred marital union, don't do it.

Everyone knows here that we want and will do contact. Papers are in the works, which she wants to talk about too.

An attorney should be present for these types of discussions.

I am a supporter of C when possible and do not see why it cant be done for these childern that did not ask for what they are having to live.

Yes, choose contact with the OC, by all means. Do not choose to sweep aside your responsibilities to PROTECT your marriage.

BOTH can be loved and protected.... OC and your marriage. Do not sacrifice your marital fences ... This is not a good thing if it could harm your family.

As long as the anger is gone and forgivness is sincere and we adults act as such.

This is not an emotional issue about anger.

This is about making calm rational MARRIAGE BASED decisions that protect everyone .... including YOU!!!

My M is growing stronger, not perfect, never will be, but H is making an effort to do everything we have agreed upon. So what do ya think.

This is so wonderful your M is in early recovery.

This is a very tender time for your M.

It takes (on average) a minimum of 2 years to fully recover.

Protect your home and yourself and your marriage fully.... and you can STILL be a fantastic step mother to OC without weakening your marital fences.

I would URGE you to call Harley's for an appointment before you make this possibly damaging decision to invite a former lover of your H's to dinner.

God Bless.

Pep

[ October 10, 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

" H is making an effort to do everything we have agreed upon."

Sunny, I meant to comment on this.

What if being in the same room with OW causes your H discomfort because he will (very likely) still feel an attraction to her???

His own feelings of attraction may be damaging to his recovery!!!

Think this through looking at it from your H's point of view.

He was "addicted" to OW (using MB terms) and now the addiction comes walking into his home invited by his wife ... and stirs up an emotional mess.... inside him.

This sort of contact this early in HIS recovery could be quite damaging to him. He is probably very fragile in his recovery, and being a guy, he may not show it.

Most of the FWH on the other MB forums admit that any contact with OW.... even accidental.... stirs up feelings of attraction .... especially early on in recovery.

Pep

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Pepperband:
 Originally posted by needtomoveon:

.My attorney and his attorney have been having a big ole party on us.....

NTMO...

I do understand your desire to make certain you child is safe at all times. I would NOT say you have a "right to inspect" BW's home yourself ... I would say you have a "responsibility to protect" your child.

And, this is where the legal system steps in.

To protect the child, to make sure all parties are responsible... a COURT APPOINTED inspection (of all places the OC will be) by a neutral person is necessary.

Too bad about the costs. The attorney costs are all due to the irresponsibility of the adulterors to respect boundaries.

The attorney fees are a small price to pay for knowing your child is safe during the visit.

Cutting corners is where the adulterors messed up in the first place.

It's the "cost of doing business" for the families victimized by affairs.

Pep <hr /></blockquote>Actually the attorny's fees are a large price to pay for childlish behavior. having the order taken seriously and have him obey it. The money spent on both ends could of been used for our own families. But I will fight for my children till my death. Procting my kids is very important, and I guess I look at this way...if they wanted to see my home I have nothing to hide, they are welcome to see it and inspect anyway they choose. Most xow would cut off there arm before being with the xmm again as well. Just because we had there child does not mean we wish for them to be our husbnad or would carry on another affair with him. Most of us have learned our lesson the hard way. Sunny has to do what is comfortable for her. I'm sure she knows that she has NO idea what tommorow will bring her with all this (who does right KT?) but we all have to do what we feel we have to do. I'm sure just by reading her post in the past that Sunny is smart enough to know her boundries, and limits. She has gone through rough times with the xow. I'm sure her gaurd will be up. She's a smart lady. I'm sure she has some reserved feelings about it also. Who wouldn't in her shoes? I as well would having the bw in my home, but would still do it to avoid any conflict and put minds at ease......we're talking about a child, not a dog or peice of furniture. The courts take time and money. They want to start a relationship with the child now. I'm sure as smart as Sunny is her attorney's have put things in place and she probally discussed this issue with them too. Sunny do what you feel you need to do. Hope for the best, but expect the worse...that way your not disapointed. I wish you luck in it, and hope that your dd gets to spend some quailty time with her new brother.

I have not read the whole thread. But I think that working a visitation arrangement can only be good for all the kids involved. I have invited Om and his wife in to my home, and in time she has invited me to their home. We share special holidays with daughter such as birthdays and school events and plan such parties together.
We are not friends, we are not buddies, and we do not discuss any thing other than my child.
As a mother in any situation if you did not share a child from the beginning, doing so now, will come with many questions and fears. This is natural and frightening for all parties involved. The first day Om took my daughter for a few hours with his wife, D cried and cried, then I cried and then his wife cried. It was difficult and painful at best.
They understood and have worked hard to ease my fears. I have been in her room at their house; I have seen pictures of it. In fact, there is a picture of my family in her room.

While this isn't a direct conversation due to marriage building it is a problem faced by couples that have a child in this situation and can be very beneficial to learn all the ways this works out. A marriage in this crisis can heal and often does, with and without contact. But those who have contact should always make sure they are doing so for the right reasons and doing what is best in the interest of all children.

Never assume, that just because you make a mother feel safe about her child, it is a direct line to her sleeping with her husband. If a husband is going to cheat he is going to do it no matter what you do in this situation.

My visitation arrangement works beautifully with Om and his wife, I do not have the desire to jump into bed with him. I have a strong desire to make my daughters life filled with JOY, LOVE and PEACE.
Lets just say thru trial and error we have worked this out and it is working.
Good for you for trying.

By the way, This is a marriage building concept if both arties agree, it also gets rid of some of the drama and stress. Better for a marriage and for your children.

Mom of Five,

Excellent response! You said just the types of things I was thinking. Thanks!

BTW, I don't know about other states, but as my child's primamry legal and custodial parent, I DO have a LEGAL right to see thier home (not that I want to...)At least I know that's true where I am....

I am trying to remember its been so long but the OW wanted dad to have supervised visitation, mom could not be present, and she wanted to know where OC would be at all times, and wanted to see OC's room. The judge told OW an address and phone # was all she was going to get. The court saw him as a fit parent. He got unsupervised visitation with a NEWBORN and the judge saw no problem with mom being there. In the end the OW made herself look bad.

Oh and the notion of an OW coming into the FAMILY home is insane. She has no business being there. This is something I would fight in court.

Sunny,

What is your husband's position on this? Does he have an opinion either way, and what is it based on?

OB1

See, this is what I don't understand.

According to the OW theory MM is 100% responsible for the affair, 95% responsible for the pregnancy, at least 50% ( most time more ) responsible for the financial care but she has 100% control of the child and visitation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
If he decides on contact then he should have ALL the rights and responsiblities that the mother has, NO QUESTION ASKED.
This woman had an affair with a MM then expects you to prove to her that you are fit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> PLEEEAASE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It would seem to me that she would have some proving to do about her own morals and fitness to parent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I know it isnt mandantory that sunnydale do this. But it seems to me that she has said that she wants to do this, because of the type of things she feels as a parent. In other words, she doesnt feel obligated. She is just trying to think like a parent would in this situation.
I found out that picking your battles is wise. I dont even know if she is really doing this for the other womans sake, it may be as much about protecting herself. They say keep your enemies close. You know where they stand and there are no suprises.
This also makes a visit less stressful for a baby.
Lets face it. If you choose to make the best of it and have contact with this child, Why not show the child respect by showing the mother respect, or father as the case may be.
It does not mean your a doormat. Children love their parents and it is always best to ease into thingslike this so as not to stress the children. All the children.

This is no different than my children showing om respect or his children showing me respect. Same principle and not as much for the adults as it is for the kids.Although his kids are my age, om would still insist on them showing respect. For the sake of our daughter. It is the right thing for her to see.

Dinner may not be the answer but I see no problem with letting her stop by with her child to put her mind at ease a little.

For me it would be, "H*LL Freezes Over Before I would allow the OW in my HOME"

I can understand if the mother would like to see what kind of enviroment the child is going to be in..but in this case...the father is more than capable of providing that.

I see it, as , " She trusted him enough to go to be with him...allow him to father her child... then she should trust that he can care for his child"

I would advice against any visitation from the OW...

Why would you even concider this? Your H is responsible... for that part of the care.

Sunnydale,
Let me preempt this by saying I only read the posts from page 1.

However, I think what you are doing takes courage and is admirable. It makes sense to start things off as smooth as possible. Your H's XOW is very fortunate that someone so compassionate will be assisting in the care of her newborn.

Back when my now H was initially separated, I did something similiar. I invited his then W to visit our home and see the room we had decorated for their daughter. I also wanted her to be able to see that her daughter would be in a safe, clean environment.

Legally she has no leg to stand on in so much as visiting your place to see that it is appropriate. H also has a son that is 13 and one of the things she requested is that she be able to come to our home. The judge flat out denied her request. He also denied her request that H be the only one allowed to pick-up/drop-off their son. The judge stated he would not place inconviences on the terms of H exercising his right to visitation.

I hope your H appreciates your efforts in this regard.

Good luck to you and your
family. tewjtm/femalesargeant@TOW

I could not fathom being away from my newborn baby! I would be a nervous wreck. Perhaps if you are not comfortable letting her in your home you can e-mail her pics of the nursery? A kind gesture without compremising (sp?) your "territory" ( for lack of a better word)?

when my kids were small i always scouted out places they stayedstayed at.....it was my way of making sure i felt they would be safe and clean even if it was just a friends house...

its not that i inspected sheets or anything but i also didnt want my kids sleeping all night on the floor with the animals and stuff where to some parents that would have been totally acceptable........

maybe im a loon about stuff like that but if its important to you that the mother of this child be comfortable with things then its one of those moments that she needs to be looked at as the mother of a newborn which is more than the OW....

i dont think its an unreasonable request.....it wasnt a demand, right? she wasnt nasty about it, right?

no harm done if you can ease her mind and make this situation easier on everyone.....

good luck *hugs*

I completely disagree with having the ow in your home. Your lives and marriage are none of her business. She has no right to even consider this. What a selfish manipulative shrew you are dealing with.

If you and your husband are going for contact, DO IT LEGALLY. PERIOD. There is no way around this. He has just as much right to that child as she does. Just as he can't tell her what to do on her time, she can't tell him what to do on his.

When you have oc in your home, that is your time to bond with oc and make oc feel safe and secure. If ow is insecure, to bad. That is not your problem to fix. I know your marriage is in a good place, and you feel good. But you allow this woman an inch and she will take a mile. You and he owe her nothing.

No way do you allow her such an intrusion, such a show of disrespect to you and your home. What on earth does your attorney say? Good grief, you are setting precedence here. The courts will wonder why you needed to be checked out. Is your husband cool with this?

Sunny, Sunny, Sunny, did you get hit in the head over the weekend?

DO NOT ALLOW HER ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR HOME. None of her business.

Once again, had she so much concern for the welfare of this child, she would not be having it with a married man.

Show your marriage and your home the respect it deserves. Keep her out.

You can be kind and loving to oc and make oc feel safe and loved. OC matters here, not ow.

You are risking another affair by having OW in your home. I think it is nutz to do that. Unless you are going for polygamy, then keep her AWAY from your precious family with the child, as much as possible. Your husband is going to see her in YOUR home and it will do something to his head. It could start him wanting to make love with her again!

Well I can see everyone had a time w/ my post. But I thought I would make it interesting while I was on vacation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> To let everyone know she did come over and it went well. I was overjoyed to see the baby and my D was excited too. We kept the conversation to what, when, how much, feedings ect. We kept it "nice" and to the point. She liked the room, who wouldn't its pretty cool! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I was pretty comfortable with it. She was alittle on edge. But I appriecate everyones comments and suggestions. This was something that H and I talked about and aggreed upon. Which to me was working on getting past and getting on with our lives as a family and incorporating the baby into it. H was more can we say uncaring to her and her need to come over than I was. As far as the legal aspect of everything, we are working to keep everything civil and cover all the basis and all the age group requirements. Yes we could have the attorney's do all of this, if we wanted to and we are very ready to go ahead a fight for our rights to have him in our lives. But to me this just makes it harder on him and my D if we are all fighting. It was hard for her to come over also. She realized that it was my home, my family and yes she is about to have to share her son with his father. sister and stepmom. As a mother I know who she feels w/ my first D and her father and step mom. But it was the first step in healing for my family as well as for her also. So no we didn't fight, NO my H didn't delvelope is feelings back for her, NO I didn't poison her. And yes healing and moving on feels great! And the main reason I posted this in the first place is because I know in my heart the right things done in a bad situtaion can come w/ a sense of peace.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D
Delighted to be back on the web
Delighted that I can pray and forgive my enemies
Delighted that God and him alone can do anything with me, my life and my heart
Delighted that I have such a good group to come and talk with.

Very Well Done!

Very proud of you Sunny--good job girlie.

Praying for you and really look up to you and your healing marriage.

I'm happy it worked for you Sunny. I only wish it would work that way in my situation. This not moving forward is about to send me to the nutfarm!!

Sunny your an inspriation of forgivness and showing by an example. I'm sincerly hopeing this all works out for all of you. Keep your faith <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bless you for your Faith Sunny. Good job.

I think this works for you Sunny because it's completely in the context of POJA something which is intended to improve YOUR marriage.

I think it is disingenuous for an OW to say to you, Sunny, as you struggle to recover YOUR marriage.... "I did something similar" .... when the gesture OW is refering to was in the context of purposely breaking up someone elses marriage.

This is a marriage support site.

If OW hold an opinion that it is the same thing to show a betrayed wife the bed her child will be sleeping in as a result of adultery ... I must object to the comparrison.

Sunny is marriage building, not promoting adultery as a means that justifies the end.

Exposing children to an adulterous lifestyle as if it were a good thing, is wrong.

Regards.

Pep

[ October 15, 2004, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Hopefully all will stay well. It's hard to say how OW really took the visit, and will she turn out to be like the OW in CodyG's situation? Will she think on it, get jealous over your living situation, and want to make waves?

Only time will tell...

Pep, I agree raising children to just accept an A is wrong. They should have to exposed to it AT ALL. My D knows and she attends S/S and things at church on a regular basis. They KNOW the 10 commandments and her feelings and actions (as she grows older) We will have to deal with. Just like Lynn, my D has a right to her opition, her feelings and her disapproval for her father and her resentment towards him. That's why it is a "life time" thing. It doesn't go away if you choose nc, or the oc grows up and moves on, because some how some way it will come up again and again. Reguardless of the example my H has shown her, I will show her an example of forgiveness and to have an open heart to others around her that are not as fortunate to have what she has. She has a mother and father that are not perfect and that love and trust in God you cant fail, no matter which road he leads me down. And sometimes traveling down the roads we are on we need to stop and listen to what he is telling and teaching us. Just because he is teaching me to forgive, I dont think he expects me to forget. You dont trust your enemies, you can forgive them and pray for them and thats what I am learning to do. Does it help in my life time commitment to my M and family, you bet, I am all I can be, and that makes me a better person, christian and ispiration to those who are not there yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Sunny - U go girl!

Gotta love your faith & I do!

Love ya!

Originally posted by sunnydale:
Pep, I agree raising children to just accept an A is wrong. They should have to exposed to it AT ALL.

I wasn't refering to your situation Sunny...YOU are doing this as part of marriage recovery.

I was offended by TEWJTM (which stands for ---> the end will justify the means) who, as the OW in an ongoing affair, invited the MM's wife and child into TEWJTM's home .... a home with adultery on display as an acceptable lifestyle.

She is using your kind gesture to justify her own behaviors, which I think are too completely different to be compared.

Pep

I know pep, I was just stateing that it's not right or fair to have to do any of this as a result of two selfesh people. And I think this type of situations should be looked at when and if you choose C. BS/WS will have to talk to OW about the child and raising this child in a hard situation. Choose your battles and fine the reasoning behind those that you do fight.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> sunny D

Originally posted by sunnydale:
I was just stateing that it's not right or fair to have to do any of this as a result of two selfesh people.

I totally get what you are saying.

"Fair" is most certainly a moot point. There is no "fairness" clause in life.

NOW, in the aftermath of the A .... the recovery is all about ~doing what works best for the marriage~.

Have a great day.

Pep

Sunny you are a good woman!! Look how you have grown!!! While I disagree with having her over, I am glad that YOU and YOUR HUSBAND called the shots!! In the end that is all that matters. As for your daughter, I am glad that you are going to stay open on her feelings. Sunny, you are doing great!!! I hope other newbies come on here and search your old posts and see how far you have come. Love and Forgivness really does happen. Life goes on and happiness is right there for the taking!!! Contact or not, this did not end your life, and you are through it!! I don't think your ow can throw a thing at you that will budge your renewed love and faith. Congrats to you and yours.

Pep, you are amazing the way you are so smart with the passive-aggressive swipes the ow make on here!! I get the irony too!!