My H left me a couple of months ago for a one night stand. He returned but ever since it has been a roller coaster ride, I love him and I want to get our lives back on track. I want to fix what is wrong and enjoy the lives we worked so hard to have. But, he thinks he wants to be with this other woman. He is only here because of his obligations and because of guilt. I want to be able to invite him to leave but I am terrified he will and then the damage will be done. Our children will be devastated and I dont know that I would ever recover. I cant stand the thought of losing the life I have built for the past 23 years. It is suppose to start getting easier now and life is suppose to be for the two of us for a while, Our kids are mostly grown and we have everything to look forward to. He says he loves me. I have been doing all I can for him to remind him that we have all he needs here and I love him more than life itself but I dont think hes listening. I am afraid one day he will just not come home. What on Gods green earth do I do to make this stop happening?

L&F, I'm so sorry for your confusion and pain. But you are here, and this is the right place to be.

I'm no veteran, so I can only offer you my hope and strength. But the veterans on this board *will* give you help and advice.

Listen to them. Listen hard, and do what they say. This is the Marriage BUILDERS site -- if your marriage can be rescued, this is the place that will show you how it is done. And if it is not, the people here will also help you find that out and how to handle it, as well.

Someone recently said here that affairs should be lumped in with the crime of spousal abuse, because that's exactly what it is. So this is a safe place.

The first (only?) piece of advice I can give you now is DO NOT TELL YOUR HUSBAND ABOUT THIS PLACE. There may come a time when you get into recovery when the information here will benefit you both. But for now, we are your ALLIES and the affair (and its fallout) is the ENEMY.

Please stay here. Persist. If nothing else, we'll help you re-establish your own sense of self-worth.

I'm with you on this one. It's that bit of fear that is keeping me from telling my cheating wife to hit the bricks. I want things to be the way they were, but in reality they never will be. I can only offer prayer in your direction, no real words of advice, but to take care of you.

I'm sorry this has happened to you.

But, you've come to the right place. You will get lots of support here.

There is no way, this is just a ONS. This A has been going on longer than you realize.

What do you know about OW? Is she married?

You're right. He's not listening. When a person has an A, they become someone their spouse doesn't recognize.

You can NOT reason w/ them. So stop doing that. It will only frustrate you.

There is something that will help you kill the affair. It's called exposure. You must tell everyone you think might put pressure on the two of them to end their A. You must NOT warn either of them that you are going to do it. And it should be done all at once, for the most impact.

Read everything you can on this site. And order "Surviving an Affair"

Keep posting. And do not let your WH find this site.

Here's a Do and Don't list...

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

And here is Plan A...

The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

The first thing to do is put a keylogger on his computer to see if he contacts her online. The second thing to do is pull up all his phone records for calls and texts. See what numbers he contacts. Most likely he calls this woman or texts her at least 10-20 times every day; the number should be easy to figure out.

Once you have her number, pay a service or a PI to get her background info. You need her husband's name and phone number and address; her parents' info; and her siblings' info. Your marriage is worth the expense of a PI.

Gather the phone numbers/emails/addresses for all of your HUSBAND's family and friends, all in one list.

Once you have all that, you will sit down one afternoon, and call EVERYONE on the list for both his info and her info. In one afternoon, you will call all these people and tell them they are committing adultery, and you want to save your family, and you would like their help by letting the two of them know if they disapprove. They need to know their family and friends will NOT approve, so they will abandon their affair.

You will NEVER get him back if you don't do this exposure. Will he be mad? Yes. That is good. It means he CARES about what people think about him, and you have a chance of getting him back.

I realize it was not really a one night stand. He has been seeing this woman for months. I believe he left the night he did thinking he was finding something he needed that he couldnt find here. I know he loves me and his family. I have made the decision that I cannot be depressed and down about this. I have tried very hard for the past couple of months to be positive..act happy..be cheerful.. speak of things that we enjoy and do things that are fun. I have tried to point out the great things in our lives. I no longer complain about the things I used to complain about. I have told him I understand more than he realizes and I am here if he wants to talk about it. He often seems like he always had in the past. He laughs and jokes and has a good time. Then once every so often he becomes distant and sad. He looks so sad I cannot stand it. I try to bring him out of it and when that doesnt work I will sit there with him and just be there for him. But, it is killing me. I need my husband to love me and want to be there with me. He has no idea how bad it hurts to see him miss another woman. He says he wants us all to be happy and he knows him being there at home makes everyoen else happy but he is not happy. He is afraid to let the other woman go because she will find someone else. There is much more to the story but most of it doesnt matter. I just want our family the way it was. I want to be given the chance to make up for mistakes and change what is wrong in our relationship that made him look for something else to begin with. I never dreamed he would leave me. Especially for someone like this woman. I have done most of what is suggested in the above reply except I cant stop telling him I love him. He tells me he loves me and he doesnt want me to stop loving him. But, he doesnt want to be my husband anymore. I dont understand. I thought as time went on I would feel better but I am becoming more and more insecure. I found it easy to forgive and forget at first. Now I cant get her face out of my head. I dream about her telling me to forget my husband that he is going to marry her! I cry thinking about Christmass without him. I think about what my girls are going to feel like and how this has totally altered their opionion of their dad. He was the perfect picture of a father and husband. I want to help him but I dont know how if he wont let me.

I know her phone number and who she is. She is not married but has been 3 times. She has broken up several marriages before. The last of which the man ended up dead. Noone knows if he committed suicide or what. Some think she killed him. I dont know the whole story. I only know she is bad news and very well known. Many of our friends know about it. He works every day and has a night job as well, The coworkers he works with seem to approve of the affair. He works at a local pub at night. That is where he first started this affair with her. I have no way to tell if he contacts her on a computer as he only uses his office computer. I have tried to get him to quit the night job but he refuses. He has been working there for 2 years now. He began working to earn some extra money because we have 3 kids in college. But, I have been begging him to quit for over a year. He just wont do it. I cant force him. I think him being gone so much is what has made this happen. I have talked to him about not talking to her if he wants our efforts to mean anything, He is very hard to talk to. He acted as if he would not talk to her but I am sure he didnt say it explicitly so that he wouldnt feel like he was going back on his word when he does. I feel like we will make it through this if I can only get her our of the picture. I cannot take feeling like my husband really wants to be somewhere else when he is here with me.

l&f, I see soooooo much of me in what you are feeling. I have a WH who told me that he is leaving to move in with OW. He wants to wait until February and he gave me the "I love you, But I am not In Love with you" speech on our anniversary. Then things started coming in increments until last week when I installed a key logger. He found it after 2 hours but I had already gotten all that I needed.

I exposed to family, friends and work people (I am still unable to find OW family).

It hurts so bad when I know he has been with her instead of us and when I know that he accidentally called me when he was trying to call her.

One of the things that I learned on here was that you have to think about your WH as having been replaced by an alien. Anything you think he normally thought or meant he will say the opposite right now.

It is hard sometimes because I feel like it would be easier if My WH just wanted to be with me. I am praying for that day to come within the next 2 years but in the meantime I have to make myself feel good.

Hang in there Hun

Guess I just needed somone to talk to. Need something positive to be happening. Thanks for the input. I appreciate you.

I too was horrified of possibly losing my wife back when I suspected of her A's. She denied and I was too 'weak' to be on my own, so I believed her. If I didn't we would have probably gotten a divorce.

I found out, through therapy, that I had co-dependency issues. I know this is a hot topic, but one can be too dependent on a spouse, as I was. I was willing to give anything to NOT lose her, including my soul, integrity etc.

I know some on here think I still have that same problem, but if you were here you would see how things are different now. My desire are important, my concerns are being heard. I have discovered who I am...or maybe I should say I am still in the process, but I am getting there.

I am in a similar situation and it looks hopeless, just like yours.
I do not know who recovers from situations like ours without going thru agony...but I suspect that they go thru agony but they do not really recover.
After 20+ years of marriage and WH finding the love of his life and wanting to move out and not giving a darn about his own kids...I don't know...I just think it is hopeless.
I wish we would all fall out of love soon but we seem to not to be able to.
blessing

From what I have read and do believe I dont think he has found the love of his life. He has always loved his family more than anything. This is not him. He feels like he has gotten old and he needs something to make him feel alive again. He is bogged down with responsibility and problems and wants out! Someone on the outside can be exciting and make you forget what life's troubles are and make all those things dissappear. But, it is only a short fix. If he leaves us for her he will soon be miserable. I have no doubt. Thats what I am trying to avoid. Of course we will be miserable as well and the damage will be irreversible. Someone who tries to take a happily married man away from a cloe family like ours is not the kind of woman the man I know would want to be with and make a life with. She is young and sexy and runs around town in shorts and a cowboy hat. She leaves her young daughters and baby with her parents while she hops form bar to bar and man to man. I dont believe any man finds the love of his life when he is already married. He just begins to believe he has when he finds some excitment he has lost. Love isnt aboout being exciting and new. Love is what you build year after year with committment and devotion. You go through good times and bad alike and give each other strenght when you need it. Love is a bond that cant be broken. I beleve that is why he is not gone at this point. He knows it is a mistake. I just have to hold it together to not give him a shove to make that move in the wrong direction. I do know that you should never give up hope. Hope is sometimes all we have and you have to be strong. I asked once on this website When do you giveup and somone answered "Dont give up until you are ablzing" or something like that. That was good advice. I think we need to focus on the positive and HOPE.

You say you have done most everything in the list.

So..

You have her parents' and siblings' phone numbers?

You have called them and told them what she is doing?

You have called his parents and sibllings and best friends and told them what he is doing?

btw, please write your answers in paragraph format. It is extremely hard to read an entire post in one paragraph, and many people just won't read or help.

Save yourself first..Who puts the oxygen mask on first when the airplane is going down?! Its very hard for women to plan A long(Act happy/cheerful when they are severely depressed). Watch your timeline and go into a dark plan B if he starts drainging all the love you have for him and/or the absuse becomes too much to bear. DUDE

I really did not want to discourage you. Of course there is hope. As Cat said...you did your homework now let's see.
However you have to accept that he is no longer the man you married. He is another man NOW. What he was in the past is history.
You can't hope to get your old H back. He and you will never be the same after this even if you R.
The power of romantic love is very strong. You see OW as not worth it...he sees her with totally different eyes otherwise he will not be risking his M to have an A with her.
Reality is what it is. We can't hide from it.
blessing

This isnt funny for the other wife but I just found out that this woman has just been caught with another married man. His wife is raising cane about it all over town. What is this woman thinking? I cannot believe woman behave this way. I imagine she cant find a single man because they have options and know she is not what they want. She will never find anyone like this that she can be happy with. I just wonder if my H knows.

Yes her parents know. I dont know the reaction but it has happened twice before so I dont think they were shocked. I dont know that she has any siblings.

Her friends help her ger around so I dont recognize her car. She is not what you would call a girl with values. Nor are her friends. This is so totally not who I ever thought would interest my husband.

I cant bear to hurt his parents like that. I havent told them. I am hoping I wont have to. But, I will if he decides to move out again.

We went to his families tis past week and had a very nice time. I just dont want to hurt anyone else.

You are right! I know he sees her as someone else. And he has been acting like an "alien".

I dont want my relationship to be the same again. I want it to be stonger and the two of us to be able to talk and communicate better. I want him to feel like he can approach me and tell when something is wrong. I want me to be able to do that as well.

Then how do you know they know, if YOU didn't tell them? You are being foolish if you do not call them yourself. You are throwing away your marriage if YOU don't take the steps we recommend and call them YOURSELF.

Why are you not trying to get information on her siblings and friends so you can talk to them?

So his parents' temporary happiness (read: ignorance) is more important to you than being married to their son? What kind of happiness do you think they will have when they find out you're divorcing because their precious son cheated on you? You are not making sense.

So you are saying that YOUR happiness is worth LESS than anyone else's? That, as long as his parents or siblings or cousins or best friends don't have to have bad feelings about their wonderful son/brother/cousin/friend, it's ok with you if you just walk away from your husband?

Or is the truth that you are just AFRAID to tell anyone? Or ashamed? Or are afraid of him being mad at you and then saying it's YOUR fault he is leaving because you exposed?

If that is the real truth, please know that what you are feeling is VERY common for betrayed spouses. It's why we have to fight so hard to get you to see the importance of exposure. But you know what? EVERY person who has come here, been afraid to expose, and finally agreed to do it - every one - said they were SO GLAD they finally did. In fact, most of them who were afraid and waited, kicked themselves for waiting so long.

Please listen to the advice here. You are not using it. And you are going to lose your husband because you are ignoring it. Read some other threads; you'll see that exposure works. Please stop being afraid.

I just want to jump in to say that when you expose, you are just revealing a truth vs covering things up and making them so very secret and exciting.

You need to know what you are going to say and to let them know that you want the marriage to survive and thrive. That you would like any advice they have about working towards that.

One of the toughest exposures I made was to my own elderly parents since I realized that this is a looooong haul I am in and they may not live to see the end result. That sucked big time but they surprised me with amazing support and input and strength. I can see where my character came from. A couple of amazing people who raised me.

Just today my WW, through my attorney, requested/demanded that I write letters of retraction to those I had exposed the A to. Can you imagine?

Since I'm in Plan B, I will not even respond. I gave my attorney a statement to read to WW about the conditions I had set for her to communicate with me (in other words, shut up).

I am sure you are right. I am afraid of what the reaction would be from him if I tell his family. I dont think he can do that. If he leaves he will have to tell them. If I do it for him he wont have to anymore. It will make it easier to leave.

As I mentioned earlier she has already gotten with another married man. I dont know how long it has been going on but I was told for a while. So that means she was with my H and this other man at the same time. He must not know. He thinks she loves him. I dont think she is capable.

I am not ashamed so much as scared to do the wrong thing. I thought at one time I should go talk to her myself. But, since I heard this today I think maybe I shouldnt. Surely, he will not want to be with her now. He will certainly hear about it if he hasnt already.

I know her parents know bacause she was living with her parents when this was going on. My oldest son went to their house and told them he was looking for his dad who was with their daughter. They were keeping the kids for her while she moved in with my H.

When it all came down my kids who all college age went to confront him and told him he was a coward. He had left with only text to tell me he want coming home. I fell apart. They just kinda took over and made him come talk to me.

As soon as he got home he told me he wasnt leaving. We talked more than we have ever talked about what was wrong and how we could improve it.

All my co-workers already knew. But, no one told me. How do tell someone something like that they said. The rumors were going around and his co-workers knew. He was openly seeing her from what I was told. I had not been told anything about her before he left that day.

I try not to listen to gossip and I just trusted him.

Without a doubt I know she is not what will make him happy. I know I cant "make" him happy but I can give him comfort and be strong for him when he needs it.

Ok. If he isnt seeing her anymore would it still be necessary to tell his family?

I will get a GPS and figure out a way to monitor his cell phone messages. The keylogger thing will be difficult. I dont want to get into any trouble if I put one on his office computer. Can I? I may even know a PI that I can hire for a while.

My home computer I can install one.

If I do this for a while and he is not seeing her would it still be necessary. I will if I find he is. The kind of woman she is I dont think anyone would agree he is doing the right thing. And, if he gets upset with me I am no worse off than I was before. AS long as he is still seeing her.

What do you think?

The following quote was written by Star*fish. It's saved on my "notable posts" thread.
Here is is.
Read this several times a day.

Quote

It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.

Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear

Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".

There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.

MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.

You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.

Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.

If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.

Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.

Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.

Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.

Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.

And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.

Let me spare you this fear.

His reaction will be - ANGER!
Unjustified anger.
His anger is based on his OWN fear and his OWN shame.

His anger will NOT be the demise of your marriage.
His adulterous affair MIGHT cause the end of your marriage.

You should tolerate his anger but not tolerate his adultery.

I did call and talk to my father who is always very supportive. He believes I should let him go and he will see he has made a mistake. He believes my H is suffering from some sort of pyschosis that he has to address before he can truly be happy. That I cannot make him happy. Psychosis being something to do with not feeling adequate.

He is very smart and successful but he doesnt have confidence when it comes to "just being a person"

Whether it is a psychosis or just that he is disappointed with his accomplishments I can only try to support him and be there for him.

I would like to call her parents and ask them if they will help me get her to understand what she is doing and that she will not find happiness with a man that was truly dedicated to his family by tearing him away from his family.

Maybe they can get her to realize no matter what she does for him she cannot replace 20+ years of marriage and 5 kids.

OW is NOT going to help you.
This is a fantasy in your head and will NOT work.

Follow the MB plans.

Have you read all the articles here about affairs? I don't think you have, or you would understand that you're not getting the point.

The point is that exposing KILLS the affair - at least it is the ONE best chance you have. If you tell his parents now, they (hopefully) will call him and cuss him out and tell him how disappointed they are in him, and look at the wonderful wife he is hurting, and how could he have done something so despicable. The shame which he rightfully will feel might be the ONLY thing that would bring him home to you.

It does NO GOOD to tell them AFTER HE IS GONE!

Look. Your marriage can survive his being mad at you for a few days. It CANNOT SURVIVE him screwing another woman.

You've already lost him. What else do you have to lose?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE call his family and her family today.

Or just give up and file for divorce.

Him hearing about her with another guy will most likely NOT make him give her up. He is too addicted. He will justify it; make it the other guy's fault, she just got confused...

You have to expose so that he starts to see HIS affair for the slime it really is. Through everyone else's eyes.

lost, read pepperband's quote about fear. Then read it again. Memorizing it wouldn't be a bad thing. All of your posts are confirming that you don't want the A to continue, but you're afraid to do anything so you're going to let it continue. Stop acting in fear!

Also, don't let any presumed notions about the OWs morals or character paralyze you. It is not important if she is the town tramp or Mother Teresa. It doesn't matter if she's true to your H or is screwing every guy in town. The ONLY thing you need to acknowledge is that she is involved in an adulterous affair with YOUR H. I've seen too many posts by BSs who say things like "she's broken up marriages before...she's a tramp...she goes from man to man..." and they strike me almost as wishful thinking "If I think hard enough about negative aspects of the OW, my WH will pick those thoughts up by osmosis and suddenly decide to do the right thing, and we can get back to normal."

That's probably not going to happen. You will need to take some action, here. If not for your M, at least for your sanity.

He will be angry, of course.
Easier for him, you mean. If he tells his family, then he gets to put the spin on it, and then he's won. If you expose the truth, he can't lie his way out of it.
Your focus should not be on her. It should be on your H. And your M, if you want it.
Listen to the others here. They will guide you. If you choose to confront the OW, they'll tell you how and what to say.
Don't bet on it. Affairs are awful, ugly things. They are surreal, and it turns spouses into unthinking aliens.
Guilt and shame do not belong to the wayward couple. At least not until their A is known to everyone around them.
Because he wants to manipulate the situation. Don't believe anything he says.
This is called cake-eating. As in, "having one's cake and eating it, too."
Unfortunately, many do not want to "get involved." This is why exposure works to your benefit. If you know and tell others, then others will not feel ashamed or guilty, and tell still others.
It's time to determine what is gossip and what is truth. Why would there be gossip if there wasn't some reason for it?
She is fulfilling some of his EN. Dr. Harley maintains that all A's die of their own accord, because they aren't grounded in reality. But the swath of damage they cause is wide and deep.
In my opinion, unless you have verifiable proof that he isn't seeing her any more, expose, expose, expose.
Good for you.
Yes. Without fail.
It is necessary up until you have verifiable proof that the A is over and you two are in recovery. Otherwise he will sandbag you and find ways around your efforts.

Adulterers are NOT simple-minded. They are entirely focused on continuing their A. Be warned.
What do you think?

I read this and it made me cry! Being afraid is a terrible way to feel. It comes and goes. I try to be strong and I am getting there little by little. THanks for posting this.

And thanks to all of you. I know you are right that I cannot accept a H that is not committed just so I can have him here.

I have to go for now but I will be back.

Thanks again.

Absolutely! This is no joke.

Having a spouse cheat on you is the most devastating thing a person can go through. And to have your spouse blatantly cheat on you for any extended time period has led to mental breakdowns.

You just cannot sit there and HOPE it will end.

Your mental health is at stake here. You have to push past your fears and do something to help your sitch.

I will think about it. I understand what you are saying. Mymarriage means more to me than anything.

I know I can live iwthout him I just dont want to give up all that we have worked for. I know that I am being a coward by not telling his family.

If exposing kills the affair then maybe that is the right thing to do. I will read some more articles and decide. I may lose him by waiting, I dont know.

I have been through something similar about 10 years ago. I guess you would say he had an emotional affair. It took about a year to get past it. Maybe if I had done things different back then this would not be happening now.

Maybe there is no hope for us. I think there is one minute and the next I have no idea how to live with this. I dont want to give up but I dont think I can do what you ask. I want it to be between myself and my H but from what you are tellimg me that is not possible,

I guess you may be right that he wont mind her sleeping with other men as long as he is not living with her. I really thought that may show him where he is wrong about her. I suppose it doesnt matter what she is. She is something special to him

Thats the part that hurts the most.

Read some more articles here and threads. You will find that waywards almost always affair 'down.' That's what makes it so hard to comprehend. I think it's psychological - gives them a sense of superiority over something.

Hmm, I wonder. "Down" as compared to what? To the BS?

In my opinion, my WW went "down," but only because OM doesn't measure up in my opinion. But compared to WW, he's still a step "up."

(I don't mean that in a harsh sense; WW is a bit of a "plain ol' country girl," and both OM and I are educated and gainfully employed).

Your WH has dumped on everything you've worked for together. You're not giving anything up.

There's no "maybe" about it. Exposure kills As. Sitting on your hands could end your M. It's as simple as that. Your WH is an alien right now. Don't expect for him to 'man up' and do the right thing. Someone is currently meeting needs of his that he will give up a lot for so that those needs can be met. DON'T spend any more time on the morals of the OW. She's seeing a MM - ergo, her morals are in the "alley cat" range. Your H doesn't care/doesn't know/will consider that kind of info as incorrect, false gossip or a flat-out lie in order to continue having his needs met.

Listen to the people who have been there. Read my info below this post.

I dont think I will say anything to anyone.

THanks for the advice but I just cannot hurt anyone else by telling the people who love him about this. I am going to continue to do the things I should be doing in our marraige. I am going to do make him feel special and try to provide his ENs.

He may not accept what I have to give all the time but right now that is okay. I think I have to be understanding and not give up. It is not difficult to love him because I just do. It is easy to be patient because I know he is trying to. He may be just hanging on to me and using me as I have been told but... I have to believe in our love.

I believe in what we had and I know we are strong. If it was not what I thought I dont want it back. We are not perfect but we were great! I know he thought so too. We had a lot happen to us over the past 2 years and we fell apart.

I know now what matters and I think he will realize that. I can be the GIVER and provide for him as long as I believe that he loves me. The OW cannot give him what he needs. He may be confused irght now but he will realize she is not what he thinks she is.

I read the thread that Pepperband (I think it was) posted for everyone to read. That is my plan. To give all I can for as long as it takes. If I lose him then I will have a great loss. I just dont believe hurting someone else is the way to hold on to my family. I pray about it everyday and I believe that lookig for support from folks like you and doing everything I can to bring him back is what I need to be doing.

I pray for strength and I pray that God will help my H open his heart and let listen.

I have this different attitude about what I need now. I dont want to just save our marraige and keep it in tact. I want to do it right. I want to put his needs first for a change. My turn will come one day! You could argue that while the A is going on nothing will change.

I agree to but I think it has to be his choice. He has to choose between me and her on his own or it will NOT be his choice. His family may influence him but he will never know it was his choice if he is pushed to make that decision.

I need him to be here because he wants to be. That is the only way he will be HAPPY and content. Otherwise, he will feel cheated and lonely for a long time. I refuse to fight with him and I will not give him an ultimatum. Sometimes I feel cheated myself and want to give up but then I think about what I would want someone to do if I were on the other side.

If i was the one who was unhappy and thought I found something outside the marriage what would I hope my husband would do? If I didnt want to be with him and I wanted to really leave I would want him to tell me he didnt love me. I would want him to be angry and want a divorce. I owuld probably provoke him and use that excuse.

If I was still in love W/my H I would want him to hang on. If I did it because I was looking for someone to satisfy my EN I would love it if he tried to satisfy them for me. That would make me question what i was doing and what I was giving up. That is what would make me fall in love with him again.

Coming from a crazy person I guess but that is who I am. I can only be me.

Don't wait till he moves out to expose. Do it now.
I waited a whole year...I did not know he was having A with downstairs neighbor but I could have snooped, but didn't.
So he moved out and I exposed to everybody...fortunately I did it just in time before he could spin his own story...which was going to be this:
Atena and I were not happy for a long while. I had told her a year ago I wanted to separate and was just waiting for son to graduate. Now after we separated I met up with the neighbor and we are not so happy...
OK, my exposure did nothing to the A as it came too late (I have been in plan B now for over 2 months so I am sticking to MB). On top of that we live in Europe and H's whole family is in the States so he feels no pressure from them, but I know for sure his mom and dad talked to him and they are devastated...however they are not close by to be able to put pressure.All his siblins are on my side. H rented a studio in a very remote area and sees nobody but OW. We work together and he knows that people at work know, nevertheless nobody has confronted him and he seems fine talking to people as if nothing happened. Imagine..he did not even tell his direct superior about the separation...
So, do not wait to be in my situation where exposure came too late and was to no avail.
Do it now.
Maritalbliss, you said you are in recovery but i see that you were in NC since 2/16/09...did H move out?
blessing

Sounds like a good plan for failure.

Good luck.

You're not getting the basic point that you need to ENCOURAGE CONFLICT in the A in order to get him to break it off. Exposure is the tool to do this. If you don't "get" this vital component of the process, what is likely going to happen is either (1) he continues that A for significantly longer, or (2) he's going to leave you for OW, or (3) if that A ends, he will be MORE inclined to get involved in other As, as there's no consequences for his actions, apart from getting even more attention from his BW, which may actually encourage him to be wayward rather than anything else.

Put yourself in his mother's shoes. If your son was ruining his marriage over an affair, would you want to know? What would you say to him? What would you do?

By NOT telling her, you are taking away her opportunity to HELP her own son.

NC since 2/16/09 means that her H has been NC with OW since that date.

However, bliss, your signature is wrong. It says affair until Dec 2009.

At least, I hope it is wrong.

If he moves out to be with OW then you have very little or no chance of getting him back. DO not make the mistake I made.
Expose while he is with you. He might still move out to be with her after that, but at least you know you did everything to preserve your integrity.
blessing

Is this to me, Sugar? Oops - 2008, not 9. Gotta fix that...

Good luck, lost. I think you will lose your M, and I hope your WHs relatives and your children won't be too hurt about that. If you can console yourself about that loss by telling yourself that you were as nice as you could be throughout your Hs A, then I'm glad you feel you will be at peace.

You're not crazy - many have posted the same thoughts and feelings. Those are NORMAL feelings, coming from a BS. But these aren't NOT normal times - your H is in the process of destructing himself, your family and your M. NOT normal times require NOT normal behavior.

I hope you will rethink this decision, but again, it IS your decision and I certainly respect that. But I could weep, knowing you had all this advice from people who have been there and saved their Ms, and you were thisclose, and you changed your mind. Again, good luck.

Lost, expose. I was just like you. I did not expose and now I lost my M. H moved out to be with OW.
Do not let that happen to you.
blessing

I wish that I could believe that exposing an A would make it end but I just dont see that happening. My family knows about the affair. My grown kids confronted him about it and as much as I regret them having to be involved I felt that this affected them as much as it affects me so they needed to know. His family does not know. Or at least I dont think they do. I do not see anything positive coming from telling his family, We do not live close by. We do not see them regularly.

I think his siblings would believe there is more to the story. They would listen to whatever he has to say and believe whatever he said. His siblings have a lot of respect for him. I would say they see him as perfect. Then, it could be the opposite of what I want to accomplish. If they accept it I am that much worse off.

If there is hope it is in giving him what he needs... LOVE, RESPECT, ADMIRATION, TRUST, ATTENTION, FREE TIME, ETC. I do not bring up conflict and I stay away from subjects that are not pleasant. I try to stay pleasant and inviting. He does all the things that I can expect. I dont believe he is seeing her. He told me several weeks ago he is not going to talk to her or text or email her anymore. I have to trust him. It usually shows up in his behavior when he has talked to her. He doesnt have that "I want you to be Happy" approach but he does do things for me that he knows I like.

He has not said he doesnt want to be with her anymore. I believe I have to show him he has what he needs right here with his family. With me! That is the only way he will realize he doesnt need her. I didnt provide any of his EN for too long. I was waiting on him to give me what I needed. All the while he was hurting just as much as I was. That was my mistake.

Now I realize I was taking him for granted. I didnt give him credit for all the things he did for me and my kids. He gave of himself so much and asked for nothing in return. But, he really needed so much but pretended he needed nothing. I cant focus on the past but I cant blame this all on him. Sometimes you have to take "affirmative action" to reverse the damage.

Thats what I need help with. Knowing what I should do to make sure I am not leaving something out. If I give him everything I have and it isnt enough then there is nothing more that I can do.

you are making a GRAVE ERROR. I mean HUGE. Kiss your M and H goodbye if you don't blow this A wide open for the WORLD TO SEE. You must be strong and not act out of guilt. NO EMOTIONS RIGHT NOW, just logic. What will end his A? His family knowing what he is doing could possibly end it and you know it. DO IT!

DUDE

Did you tell HER family? Why not?

I would want to know if it were my son. This is a good point. I would want to help. I wouldnt judge him though. I would listen to what he had to say and I would tell him the OW is not the answer.

My sister wants to talk to him and my father but I wouldnt let them. Maybe that is a mistake. He is so proud. I dont see how humiliating him can help. And yes, I have been humiliated. But, tit for tat just doesnt work. I cant pay him back so to speak.

I would love for someone he respected to talk to him and help him see what the A really is. I am not sure anyone can though. He is one of those that doesnt listen to many people. He used to listen to me. Maybe he i still listening. I dont know. Maybe I could talk to his father. He would listen to his dad.

What does your WH say about all of this? Is he committed to repairing the damage he did to your M? Has he written a NC letter to the POSOW?
I'm not sure what your plan is, lost. To be so nice that he wants to stay is admirable. But you've done NOTHING about this A! Your WH needs to be accountable, or he will drift back and forth between you and the OW, getting his needs met by both of you. Is that your plan?

Exposure is intended to bring the A under a bright light, to remove the secretive nature that allows it to thrive, and to take the clandestine romance flavor from it. Humiliation is a natural by-product of an A. That's not something you caused - his actions caused it. Understand that, lost. There's no 'payback' here.

lost, PLEASE do this! Don't remove this opportunity from his parents! That would be like you having a child who got in trouble at school, and you had the opportunity to advise him to do the right thing, but the school never told you about it, and kicked him out.

LET them have the opportunity to be parents to him.

He only says he knows everyone will be happy if he stays with us. He also says no one cares if he is happy.

Admirable is not what I am trying to be. Of course I dont want him to go back and forth. The last time we talked I told him he cant go back and forth. He had to make up his mind what he wanted and stay or go. he said he was doing that. I will not let him stay if he is seeing her. I will find out if he is. It may not be immediately but I will. My plan is to trust that he is not seeing her and to give him what he needs as long as he is not seeing her.

I dont know what he has told the OW. I know two months ago he told her he was working out things with me. Since then I dont know. He cannot have too much contact with her because he is either at work or with me or his kids. He does leave on his own to have recreational time. He needs some time alone. There has been very little time for her. The only commuication could be by phone but it isnt too private where he works so it couldnt get too involved. I am not trying to kid myself. I know it could be going on.

I just think I have the upper hand.

Please let them. Look at it this way. Even if your H DID decide he no longer liked OW, and came back to you because nothing better was out there (sorry), he would never have learned what he did was wrong. He'd just be waiting for the PTY to come along. And each time he went and had an affair, it would get easier and easier, because you PROTECTED HIS SECRET FOR HIM.

This is NOT your H, lost, it's an alien. Your old H is in there, somewhere, buried by the chemical addiction to the affair.

He NEEDS you to fight for him. He NEEDS you to fight for your marriage, because he is currently incapable of doing so, being addicted.

If you would read some of the treads over on Recovering, you would see that the wayward spouse, once they are over the affair (AFTER the BS followed the MB advice and exposed), they often THANKED their spouse for exposing and for making them face the awful choices they made.

He NEEDS you to be the strong one - not the nice one.

And he NEEDS to hear from family and friends that they have lost respect for him, in order for HIM to see what he's done.

It is simple psychology, lost. Please listen to the advice you're getting. It's from people who know it works.

Have you talked to HER family?

His parents are very old. What if I told them and they got into a heated argument and had a stroke or something, I could never forgive myself. And I am certain no one else would either. I will still think about talking to his dad and see what he says.

There is nothing I would love more than to have everyone he loves telling him he is on the wrong path. Not to be angry with him but to help him see he is making a mistake. He cant see that you cant fall in love with someone for the reasons he has gotten close to her. He is hurting himself as much as he is hurting me.

Which is why you have to see this as helping HIM.

No. I haven't. Whar do I say to them? That their daughter is ripping my family apart and she has slept with my husband. She has gotten him to rent a house with her and they almost moved in together. He's given her money while we are struggling to stay afloat ourselves.

I thought about asking them to try to talk some sense into her. To make her see it didnt work the last man she got to leave his family. He committed suicide. Is that what she wants to happen again.

It is this simple my friend. It really is..DUDE

YES! This is EXACTLY what you should say to them!

So, again, I ask you to put yourselves in THEIR shoes. If your daughter was starting to create a long series of poor choices, wouldn't you want to know?@! Of course you would. Because you would want to knock some sense into her, you'd be ashamed of her, you'd want her to STOP before she started embarrassing YOU!

PLEASE don't take away the opportunity from all these people by hiding your husband's secret for him.

lost, what about this? What about you print out this thread, and give it to YOUR parents, and ask them what THEY think you should do?

Then, if they agree you should be silent and pretty and nice, and sit at home and hope he'll stop screwing another woman, I'll back off.

Lost,

You will not be hurting his parents, his actions are the cause. You are just shedding light on it.

BA

Why ia it a mistake to trust him? I hate to make you feel like you are beating your head against a brick wall. (that is cute by the way). If he isnt having anything to do with her and I start calling around now it will only stir it all up again.

You dont have to answer that. I know why you think I should talk to his parents. I wish I had the day it happened. That would have made sense to me. At this point something has to happen for me to feel like I can do that. I cannot get access to his computer. The only one is at his office that he can use. Is there any other way to know what or who he is talking to except a keylogger. I have to download that on the computer dont I. And when it is downloaded will it send me messages about what he types. What if his employer sees it? Is that criminal?

I look in his email but that doesnt tell me much. I dont see her # on our cell phone bill either. Someone looked through his desk at work and no cell phone there. We share a car so he cant be storing it in the car. But I have looked jsu the same. I have looked everywhere I know he could hide something and founds nothing.

If he is seeing her he is covering his tracks well.

He is being watched. If I find out he is seeing her or communicating with her in any way I will talk to them and ask for their help.

Dear lost:

My thread is swimming....but taking in water. i won't go into great detail about my situation, just a few details:

me: BS-47
him WH-45
married: 25 years this year in June
three children: daughter 22, graduated in May with BS, 1st semester in master's program, getting married Dec.18, 2009;
son: 2nd yr. in college, youngest son: Jr. in Highschool
DD-April 11, 2009: EA with co-worker 20 yr. younger than him.

Told me he new we were both unhappy, he was unhappy with his life, he wanted out, he wasn't sure what he wanted. He was a failure as a husband, he was the reason i was unhappy, depressed, never being able to provide in the way he wanted to(although i have never wanted or desired material things and have always been frugle with our money. He needed space, he was not the same person, he was confused. That night I new in my gut that something was coming that would shake me to my core. I felt a pain, and a fear that I cannot describe. That night, he told me in a resturant, started to cry and lose control over his emotions, and this is so unlikie him. To me he looked like a scared little boy, he looked lost and confused, hurt and sad, broken and beaten up by the world.

I could not just let him go, could not let him flounder by himself. Two nights later, he admitted there was someone else he was talking too. I knew her, had met her several times, and her husband, thought of her like a daughter, she is that young. I made up my mind that night I would fight for my husband, my marriage, my family. I would not go quietly into that dark night.... and so it began. I made one promise to him that looking back on it now, I'm not sure I would make again. That was to say nothing to anyone. Not my children, parents,in-laws, friends, no-one. I asked him for one promise: to respect me enough to tell me everytime he spoke with her. He made the promise. I kept mine, he did not keep his.

I have told one friend since this began, the weight of it all becoming to heavy. She is one of my dearest and lives very far away. I sought help from a therepist, and my family dr for antianxiety meds.

Our situations seem very much alike, in some ways. Looking back on it now, I would have told her husband. When I made the decision to tell him, i could find no info on him, tried everyway with help from here. You seem under alot of the same convictions that I felt. They are not popular on this site as you can see. However, they are valid and reasonable.

Decide what is best for you, your husband, your children and your marriage. But make no mistake, the person I decided to love through the fire was not the man I knew, not the man I thought I new, showed himself untrustworth, unreasonable, as some say here, an alian. He did however say he would walk through MB with me, we are trying to work the program. It has been hard and lonely most of the time.

I would recommend you decide how much and how long you can Plan A, it almost killed me. Finally, he sent NC letter, way after he said he had told her he was chosing his family and his wife. That happened in Nov. he says he picked us in May, however there was continued contact few and far between but still to much for me.

Read all the material here on the website, do the questionaires, get the book SAA, and others. We are trying to rebuild, and rediscover but i am fearful and weary, and he is broken and guilty. We are not the same people, but we are people worth saving, a marriage worth rebuilding. Your love, desire, hard work will not be "cake eat", I watched myself "audition" for my job, i watched him play the rebel,"player" mentality while meeting every EN,SF, every domestic need he had. I watched him, and promised him I would help him grieve the loss of her, had to acknowledge how he felt about her, how deep he fell for her, the needs she met, admiration being one of the biggest. I had to let him feel her loss so I could fill the void never knowing if it was going to be enough or appreciated.

While doing this I realized my part of the downfall of our marriage, my responsibility in what had gone on. How I had failed him. Everytime I realized a need he had that I did not meet, I acknowledged it, appologized, asked for forgiveness. Don't misunderstand, I did not downplay his responsibility in the downfall of our marriage, i did not take responsibility for his choice in the A, that was his choice.

I walked on eggs for quite awhile, but I can say that it was long, hard, lonely but worth it. I feel good about the way I handled this, not perfect, not great. But I followed my instincts, prayers and I don't think they have mislead me. I also followed alot of the advise on this site. I snooped, got all the info I could. learned techniques that I could and will put into action if this A rised up again, or if he chooses to walk outside of our bond again.

I feel your pain, i am sorry you are here. you don't have to rationalize your choices, they are yours. keep an open mind and listen to all the different opinions you may find help in the simplest ways. at the very least you will find support.

Thank you so much for your encouragement. You do sound an awful lot like me. I know you are hurting and it sounds like you are trying to be there for him just like I fell like I need to be there for my H. Its not that he didnt hurt anyone. It is just that he is human and didnt do it to hurt me.

The way you discribed your husband looking like a scare little boy is exactly how I see my H. I can see the hurt in his face and in his eyes. It is not always there. More and more often he looks confident and strong again.

I am not to blame for his A. I know that. I have to take responsiblity for my part in the problems that led him there. I appreciate your words more than you kow. As I appreiate catperson, maritalblsis and all the rest. It is so great to find someone who I can talk to and get good sound advice.

I know I may not take it sometimes but I have to do it in my own time. If i fail then it is my failure.

you wrote...

That night I new in my gut that something was coming that would shake me to my core. I felt a pain, and a fear that I cannot describe.

When I received the message he sent me that he was leaving I thought someone had shot me. It was the most pain I have ever felt in my life. It came out of no where. I wish that kind of pain on no one.

From that moment on there has been a dull pain in my stomach that doesnt go away.

The hardest part is watching him "grieve her loss" . I feel sorry for him when he is like that. That is why I think he has not been seeing her.

I need to find the book SAA. I cant think about anything else anymore. It is hard to get any work done.

Today is his birthday!

That seems fair. Just remember that, only 4 days ago, you said this:
He is so deep in the fog still that you cannot trust anything he says or does right now. It could take no more than for him to see a billboard she once commented on, to go running back to her. And, if no one else knows, they will be able to carry their affair on - in secrecy.

They will go underground. They will FIND ways to sneak time together. It will be FUN.

If no one else knows, it will also be EASY.

It has been 5 days since he said he didnt think anyone cared if he was happy.

Its been 3 weeks and one day sinc he said he feels like he needs to be with her. I can still see his face when he said it. It was in that conversation he agreed he would not talk to her anymore. It was not as if he really wanted to say that but more like if that is what will make everyone happy then that is what Ill do.

I can feel in the way he touches me that he doesnt really want me. He says I love you but its more of "love ya". There is a big difference.

I go over this in my head over and over. I considered talking to his father and asking him for advice. He is a very good man and I know he would talk to me about it. He loves his family and he loves us so much. I just dont want to give my H the ammunition to run away. It all depends on how his dad handles it I think. I would almost rather my dad talk to him but I am afraid ofthat too. He is angry with my H about all this. But, he is very level headed so....

I asked my H to go talk to our priest. He said it wouldnt do any good. That no one would help. They would only ask questions and ask how do you fell about that. He is not one to take help very easily. I wonder if I asked the priest to call my H if that would be a good idea.

My only child at home that is not off at college is having a difficult time. She is watching him and knows he is not the same. She posts sad comments on her face book and asks for her problems to go away. She barely eats and cries to herself for his attention. He isnt the same with her. She knows it and they were so close before. He doesnt spend the time he used to watching her swim and talking her to about it.
She can see his sadness and it makes her sad.

I have talked to him about this and he seems to be making an effort to give her the attention she needs. I only hope it will continue.

One question I have for anyone who has taken antidepressants. I am not a fan of them but I wonder if they really help. It is difficult to be positive and act like the happy wife when you dont feel secure or even loved. Just a little heart felt hug would help initiated by him but I dont get that. Would the meds help or would I be correct in thinking they wouldnt do much for me at all. I am not sobbing uncontrollably nor am I sitting around doing nothing.

I find it hard to let go in the morning. When I get in B at night I want to stay too close. I am probably smothering him. I am scared to let go for fear he wont be back tonight. I am so mad at myself for not seeing this. I was the exact opposite 3 months ago. I prctically ignored him and could care less how close he was. I was mad at him for not giving me attention and leaving me alone all the time while he worked. I shoulve just went to where he worked and hung out there like the OW did. I guess I needed to be home with my daughter. I dont know. I hate this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is VERY wrong for you not to tell her what's going on. She NEEDS you right now to be honest. The worst thing for kids is for the adults to think they are helping the child by shielding them, pretending nothing is wrong because the kids aren't 'mature' enough to understand.

Well, look where that attitude has gotten you and your daughter?

Please sit her down and tell her the truth. I PROMISE you she will not hate her father, or you, she will be RELIEVED to finally be told the truth. I promise you.

And PLEASE call his father and talk to him. Ask him to talk to his son. Your H NEEDS HIS father right now. He isn't telling his parents because he is ashamed of himself. But who do we want to respect us more than anyone else in the world? Our parents. You will help him by giving him access to his father by opening the gate. Once he realizes his father will forgive him, the rest will come.

Yes, antidepressants WILL help! I promise you that, too! There are hundreds of different kinds. They have kinds that you can't even tell you're taking. The one I was on, the only change in me was that I was...motivated to take care of myself and get up and clean the bathroom or take out the trash. Very intangible, but very real. No fogginess, no woosiness, no numbness. Just motivation. Kind of like it helped me make decisions. It helped me not feel hopeless. It helped me see the glass half full.


ETA: Just wanted to add that your daughter is blaming HERSELF for his dealing with her differently. All kids do. They don't think of outside reasons; their family is their world. So, if dad doesn't want to be around me, if he's not the same around me, it's because I've disappointed him somehow. That's what she is thinking.

So. Who is here that has had an A and they were outed to their family by their S? How did it feel? Didnt it make you feel like you may as well leave now? Of course you dont want anyone mad at you or disappointed in you but that is already the case. Why not go for it at this point. Prove them all wrong so to speak. After all, you are "in love" with this person. Who could blame you if it is TRUE LOVE? Don't you deserve happiness.

You have been miserable for so long. Now you have the chance to be with someone who you really wnat to be with. Your S has been the source of all your pain for so long. It is your chance to live again! You stayed through the children growing up and did everything you could to please your S. Nothing was good enough. You feel like you dont measure up to your S expectations. The OW wants you just the way you are!

Thats what I think would happen!

on many email accounts. I think maybe I found it because of one of the books was recommended.

Lost --

You two desperately need help. I've been a wayward, and I know that your husband is not able to do what you need from him.

It takes time.

Your expectations of him are totally out of whack. He is not even close to being able to meet your expectations.

You need to put your "taker" away. You can't expect him to give you the affection or loooooooove that you want from him. He is in withdrawal not only from OW, but also from you.

If he is committed to staying (even if its not for his undying love and passion for you....) then you don't need to further expose -- and you don't need somebody to talk some sense into him. That is a big ol disrespectful judgement by the way!
You can't EDUCATE him out of his depression. Any more than we can talk you out of yours.

I strongly suggest that you talk to your doctor about anti-depressants. You are very likely suffering from a situational depression -- and its hard to help your family through it if you can't function!

Get counseling with the Harleys. You don't have to air your laundry on this forum if you don't want to -- but it often helps because somebody is usually here 24/7 for your immediate support.

Your husband will come around. Meet his needs. Build the foundation now for the kind of marriage that is possible with the MB tools. I greatly admire and aspire to the kind of relationships that the Veterans of Recovery have with MB foundations!

Dear Lost:

I will agree with you, one of the hardest things was watching him grieve her and hear that he was "lonely", at work, at home, everywhere. When they let her go at work, they also let alot of other people go that he was close to as work companions. So he felt like he was losing everyone and everything. what i had to realize was that he already grieved the loss of me, along time ago. So i can understand how you feel when you realize that there is nothing there, he is not there. However, I did not care in the moment. I had made up my mind that i was going to fight for him, us even if he would not. Doing that alone, and letting him reap all the benefits is hard, Plan A is hard. However, i never gave him up. Don't get me wrong, there were times we argued about the absurdity of the relationship he thought he had and wanted with her, times when i let my sadness, anger flair. But i really tried to keep that to a minimun.

What you are feeling as far as "smothering him" is referred as "hysterical bonding". and yes we did, i did. Smother, Smother,smother,smother,smother him. Give her no room to even breath near him. I really feel God gave me an uncontrollable desire for my WH, i could not control myself around him. I needed him in every way you can think of. I, myself could not understand it. and in the tender moments, and yes there were moments, we would sometimes talk about it. Meet his every need, even before he realizes he has it, and if he questions it tell him why.

As far as that pit in your stomach, i lost close to 30 pounds because the only thing i could do was breath, and even that was hard sometimes. it is much better now, 9 months out but there are still moments that i catch myself hyperventylating a little.

Your situation is different then mine, in that your kids are aware, he has admitted a PA and making plans to physically leave. i don't pretend to know how that feels or to know how to handle that portion of the chaos you find yourself in. i have no answers as to how his relationship with his daughter could be healed during this hurtful time. i do know that the level of hurt you feel to realize that this otherwise wonderful father would even consider someone else's pain or feelings before his daughters is a level i hope i never find.

my heart is with you, take deep breaths, continue to read and inform yourself via this forum and website, then make your decisions based on the information you have and the outcome you desire. You cannot continue to run defense for this man. His choices were his, the consequenses are his.

I go to this forum to try and vent and make sense of how I am feeling. And, of course to get good advice from those that have been here. It helps a great deal. Its like writing in a journal but others get to read it. I think it is a great thing that gives people a place to talk things out without consequences.

yes, Lost that does make since to me....seeing him still there, that was the hope i looked for.

if you read my thread you will see my say " I know longer so me in his eyes, it hurt so bad....I use to always see me in his eyes. The way he would look at me as if i were the most beautiful thing he had ever seen and the thought of anyone else would never even cross his mind..... that is what was lost.
When i started Plan A'ing him to death, i was not there, not only not there, he didn't want me there, there was no room for me, she was there. I can't describe the hurt, loss, pain...i wish i had better words... but as the days turned into weeks, weeks into months, he would say "Do you see yourself there yet, he use to tell me i was never really gone, i don't believe that i saw the truth. There were moments, i would see flickers, signs of what use to be, hope that i could squeeze her out. i would even say to him while looking directly in his eyes, I am not there, but i will be.
Then as the fog began to lift, as the withdrawel became apparent, as his distence became greater from her, and he began to allow me closer, i could see me. I don't see me like i did before, but i think my eyes have changed. Maybe it was unrealistic to find that kind of joy and peace, fullfilment, innocence in his eyes, now when i look i see that both of us have pain, we both are disillusioned, we both are cautious.
Of course he wants this to just be over, and i don't even think that is healthy, however i do hope that one day the woman i see in his eyes now, and hopefully in the future will make the other "me" i saw in his eyes pale in comparison.

I know that it will be me that spurs us on in recovery. i want him to recover just as much as me, us. i never want to be in this situation again. so now the goal is affair proofing our relationship. i have told him it's not about trust, it's about knowledge, respect, honor and commitment. That being said, it all still hurts, it all still is the hardest thing to wake up to and the hardest thing to lay down at the end of the day. the hardest thing to put aside instead of put between "us".

I can see that you are still hurting so badly. You must love him very much. I understand and can relate to how you feel. It seems to me that the two of you working together to rid yourselves of this pain will help you bond in a way that no one else can understand. I will pray for you and your husband that your marraige is restored and your happiness returns.

Lost, I think you might achieve more, if you spend some time trying to get inside your husband's mind. Figure out what HE wants. What drives him. Is he a 'I need to feel good...now' kind of guy? Or a more logical one? Or what? If you can figure out what his rationalizations are, you might be able to become part of his equation. Right now you are on the outside, looking in. Outside, WISHING and HOPING he'll turn around, see you, and go, 'oh yeah! I want HER!'

Not gonna happen.

We do what feels good for ourselves. We preserve ourselves. Our happiness.

Your happiness right now = husband wanting you.

His happiness right now = something like 'freedom from her nagging' or 'more SF' or 'having women paw all over me to feed my ego' or 'regain my youth'...

Something like that.

Until you can figure out what makes him tick, you sitting on the sidelines, looking pretty, waiting for him to glance over at you and suddenly hit himself on the forehead and say 'good grief what was I thinking' is a pretty sad plan. And 95% futile.

IMO, you sound like someone who's letting her 'romance' guide her plans. Like you think he'll think the same way, WANT to be in love with his wife because that's what life is all about. Truth is, that is what GIRLS dream of, not guys. They don't sit around as kids going 'gee, I can't wait to get married.' In fact, they joke to each other about how long they can last until they get stuck with it. Polar opposite.

If you want him back, try thinking like him, to figure out what would attract him back.

I dont really know how to answer this. Or, rather how to feel about it or how to react. Where do you see I am nagging him? I dont see it.

I think he has feelings of failure. That he hasnt measured up to his families expectations. He is a perfectionist and is too hard on himself. I have tried to make sure he knows that I am proud of him and what he has accomplished and no matter what happens we only need our family. He has to see it and I can only try to help him by standing by him.


I havemade arrangements for trips to sporting events and made sure we all went as a family. I have gotten him interested in a few other outside activities that he has expressed interest in before but never took the time.

I make sure our home is inviting to him and that he doesnt have to "look" for anything he needs. We play games and listen to music, go for walks, make plans for our kids, talk about work.... I try to stay positive and jsut dont talk about anything negative.

He talks about he cant do this or that becaase he is getting old so I make sure I tell him every chance I get how handsome he is or try make him feel strong or even superior every chance I get.

I tell him what a great dad he is and point out the things he does for the kids that make them look up to him. I tell him the things they say to me that lets him know how proud of their daddy they are.

Maybe I sound like a pathetic loser on this posting. I do want the romance back. I believe he loves the romance too. I believe he wants his S life to be fulfilling for his W. I think that makes him feel accomplished.

What I believe he wants is to feel like he has done something with his life and to feel successful. I think he doesnt want to get old because he hasnt done everything he needs to do yet to get that feeling. He has hit a bump in the road that he is afraid he cant get over. The OW gave him a chance to start over. Or so he thought. She doesnt expect anything (or so he thinks). She does not have to criticize him or judge him in any way.

I am not just sitting on the sidelines watching him slip away. Trust me. I may cry when he isnt around but when he is I am the "perfect wife". He knows I miss him and he knows I am hurt. But, he also knows that I have not laid down to die.

I thought about letting him go and telling him he has to find his happiness where he thinks it is. But, I am afraid he wont ever come back. I do believe he woudl realize wehre his heart lies and where his happiness comes from but he is a very proud man. I am afraid he would feel it caused too much damage and not return.

I now believe letting him go is not the answer. I must fight for my H. I have to give him time. No matter how long it takes.

I guess I am just stubborn.

You say:
Where do you see I am nagging him? I dont see it.
And you say:
She does not have to criticize him or judge him in any way.

Something to think about. fwiw, I imagine nearly every man on earth thinks his wife nags. Just like staying single is what boys talk about, getting stuck with a nagging wife is also what boys talk about.

As for all the stuff you just described...all fine and good. IF those were the things that HE told YOU he wanted.

Did he?

Here at MB, we talk a lot about meeting ENs. How, you can meet 25 different ENs, beat your brains out meeting all those ENs. But if they aren't your SPOUSE'S ENs - the ones HE would choose, the things HE wants - you are wasting your time.

That is why I said that you have to figure out what HE wants.

Just being the perfect wife will most likely not be enough for him. He is - obviously - seeking something else. Or he would be home with his perfect wife.

Figure out what it is.

btw, I am not criticizing you. I am explaining how people think, and how his thoughts guide him. And how your thoughts guide you.

fwiw, if you were truly stubborn, you would be truly fighting for him. You would be telling his friends and family that you are fighting for your marriage. You would be telling this OW to keep her slimy paws off your man. You would be stroking his ego by FIGHTING for him in real life, not just sitting at home, looking pretty, acting perfect, waiting for him to notice. He takes you for granted, lost. That can't compete with ego stroking, crazy SF, and the thrill of the hunt. Not with someone so thinks life is passing him by.

Yes, I can see your point and if your H is ready to leave he will, no matter what. And if he will not leave now, he will in a few years if you do not go thru a good R. That is what happened to me. My H wanted to leave way before I told everybody and did leave before I told everybody.
Now that I did tell everybody, it is very possible that my H is doing exactly that: prove us all wrong and put up with the OW even when things between them get rocky (and they will at some point). Right now things between them are bliss. And it will last as they do not live together.
This is my H second A and what you are telling me now about your H and you reminds me of my behaviour after my H first A.
Ultimately if you do not go thru a good R he will cheat again and again.
Sure:It would be great if you could figure out what he wants, but that is impossible so I have to disagree that we can actually know what another wants. MB can help but if he does not want to...you can't make him. He told you what he wants. He wants to be able to make you happy and he knows your behaviour now is only crisis management. How can he trust you will not turn back into the old you once he tells you he loves you?
I don't know what to say. Looking back I should have let my H go after his first A because he did nothing to R.
If your H is not willing to do both IC and MC then it is very possible that you M would be doomed, so you might very well let him go now, let him work thru his issues and get some peace of mind for yourself.
What you are doing now is very stressful and difficult, I know because I went thru it twice. They are removed and in love with someone else. Put yourself in that situation...you are so in love with H and now you have to fall out of love. That is what he has to do about OW. And romantic love is intense and passionate.
I truly think that the A has to die a natural death if the WS is not willing to do IC and MC to recover. I would tell him to move out. He is also damaging to you D.
I do not want to scare you, but I have been thru all of it and it is sheer misery when WS does not want to participate in R and he is not sure about what he needs, wants. Your obsession with him is just that. Obsession. Let him go and he will come back if he decides that family is what matters to him. We can't make people do things. What you fight you strenghten. Fight the A and you will make it stronger. What you let go will create space for new things and people in your life. Let him go and be prepared for a miracle.
blessing

Yes I did say that about she does not have to criticize or judge him in any way. I am speaking about what he is thinking. I on the other hand represent the responsibility that he has for a family.... bills, mortgage, college. etc. She is just for fun! All for himself. He doesnt have to impress her or be something "better". He actually told me that. She wants him even though she knows he has nothing to give her.

I think this is fighting for him. I am not so much in CRISIS MODe. I am trying to get out of the depression I was in and be who I was before. My depression was from other things beside the A that maybe he was worried about too and I expected him to take on and fix for me. When in fact there is no fix. It is just LIFE.

Print this out and READ IT! You are hurting so bad. Please, expose this and end the abuse before you go bonkers..DUDE

I dont know what to say at this point. After reading all this again and again I am so confused regarding this forum. Some of you seem to thing my M is already over and I should just expose this to the world so I can "wake him up" and get everyone on his butt about what he has done. What have I got to lose?

Most of what I have read outside this forum has said treat him with TLC and put away any resentment and my own needs. GIve him all I have and show him what he has already. I have know him for 25 years. I know what he needs and what I have neglected to give him. That is over.

I understand how the excitement may lure some to an A. I think this A for him made him sad. I dont think it is exciting at all for him. Thats why he almost left. He couldnt stand the deceit. He felt that I wouldnt care. I did act like I wouldnt care and had been acting that way for a long time. I know that hurt him. I do care and I think he is realizing that.

I would like to invite my H to attend weekend marraige retreat. I am not going to ask him to go just yet. If things go as well as they have this week for a few weeks I will look for one. We have never done anything like that and I think it will be good for us.

For those that have said welcome to DIVORCE I think you are wrong. If he wanted a Divorce he would already be gone.

Hello Lost,

I am sorry that you find yourself here. It is a sad place to be but it will help you to save your M. Many have been saved. I believe that you are misinterpreting the advice that you have been given. What you need is the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A. You are only employing the carrot. That may lead to a false recovery or additional A down the road. All immoral acts have consequences. You are trying to save your H from his. Many here have made that mistake, myself included.

You are blindly following your gut instincts based on your knowledge of your H for many years. That no longer applies. You are dealing with an alien. The good people here have the benefit of the observation of hundreds of heart breaking A's over their many years here, not to mention their own experience. Yours is NOT different. They are your last best chance at saving your M. Ignore them at your own peril.

God's Blessings,

Say

lost, you aren't reading this all correctly. You are mixing and matching different things, ok?

We DON'T think your marriage is over. Far from it. IF you follow the MB method - to expose the affair so that it is no longer fun and sneaky and exciting and so that his family and friends tell him how disappointed they are in him...suddenly having an affair isn't quite as glamorous as it was just a day before. Suddenly he starts to question whether he CAN be happy with OW, especially since (hopefully) his family and friends have told him that they will NOT welcome her into their family.

Waywards build up this fantasy in their minds that everyone will just be ok with it all. Oh, you're happy now with OW? Ok. We don't ever have to speak to lost any more; that's fine. We'll figure out how to help you get the kids over losing their mom and replacing her.

Sometimes that happens. Often, it doesn't. Often, family, friends, and priest will give him a talking to, so that he wakes up and asks himself what he's doing. Suddenly it just may NOT work out. Maybe he'd better re-evaluate.

THAT is why you expose. Not to punish him after the marriage is over.

Have you read the articles here? It doesn't seem like you have. Please go to the link that says How to Survive Infidelity. Meeting needs right now is pointless when he is fogged over with his OW addiction. All that does is make it all the more ego-stroking, to see two women fighting over him.

You meet his needs AFTER you expose. AFTER they can no longer sneak around since everyone now knows what they're doing. THEN you Plan A like crazy. But it's pointless if you don't shine light on the affair.

Also, if you read about the Harleys who founded this place, you'll see that he/they have counseled thousands of couples dealing with infidelity. Thousands. THAT is from which Harley drew this method. He has studied it in those thousands of cases, what works and what doesn't. In 90% of the successes - where the WS gave up the affair - the BS exposed the affair. That is why it is so important.

Also, this:
you would also know is fallacy if you read the material, because he is getting SOME of his needs met by OW, and SOME of his needs met by you. He LOVES that! What man wouldn't? WHY would he ever want to divorce, when he gets you fawning all over him - yet accepting his affair - and her providing him all kinds of kinky, exciting SF?

If you let him, he will continue this for the rest of your lives. Because it WORKS for him. He may dump this OW, but he will just go out and look for a new one. Because he suffered no consequences. Only, next time, he'll be bolder. "Hey, lost didn't mind; heck, she even upped the ante and made it more fun; she must LIKE it this way."

And, over time, your self-esteem will erode away, year by year, day by day, minute by minute, until you (most likely) just try to kill yourself because you see no other way out. HE will never stop with the other women, HE knows you will never leave because you're 'too scared to let go.' You have no other options but to die.

If you listen to MB, we can help you stop that route.

This makes sense and I am listening. Maybe my self-esteem is already gone. I am sure it is severely damaged. How could it no be. Of ocurse, it is.

I just have a hard time accepting this. It is as if it is not a reality!

Facts are facts and he cannot be having a physical secual affair with her. There has been no time for it. Of course, that doesnt mean he hasnt thought about it. I am sure he has.

I stopped posting on this thread because I couldn't bear to keep watching the train wreck, but I've got to comment: cat is completely correct, lost. Completely. You are supplying part of his needs, OW supplies the rest. And it's a happy threesome. I tried to mention a similar situation, by noting an old acquaintance whose BW did the same thing you're doing. And he ended up moving the OW into their house! Yessiree, bob, his BW was that nice, giving him her all and accomodating his A. Yeah, yeah, he was a great guy, pillar of the community, blah blah blah. My point being that he wasn't a three-headed monster. So it can happen to someone who's considered to be a 'great' guy. I'm not saying your H is going to move OW in. But can you see how the threesome relationship that he is in can become the norm for him? Why not? He's got two women meeting his needs!

You're going to see a lot of sites that advocate falling all over yourself to get your H back. A lot of those sites almost blame the BS by default: by telling you what you have to be in order to "make" your H see the light. It doesn't work that way in most cases. What you're seeing on this site is something a little different: an actual PLAN to end the A and restore your M. At times it will seem like the advice you're getting completely conflicts with what you think you should do. That's because you're too close to your H (who is no longer your H, by the way, but an alien) and can't see it. And because you're thinking in a normal way. But these are NOT normal times, lost.

The advice you're being given on here is from people who have done it the MB way and have RESTORED THEIR MARRIAGES, in many/most cases better than their M ever was before. Isn't that what you want?

Heck, even former waywards are on here, advocating the same thing. Read. Learn. Implement. Restore your marriage.

Please expose this and end it. You are going to be an emotional wreck if you don't. This is your life we are talking about here..DUDE

First, I would bet you big money he HAS found time for it, unless you work by his side all day long. People get it on in closets, cars, truck stop bathrooms, offices...anywhere there's a wall separating them from others. It only takes 5 minutes on the way home. You are kidding yourself, because you want to keep the 'old' image of him. But right now he is NOT the old him; he is a drug addict, high on the chemicals of sneaking around on you.

Second, according to research, men think about SF at least 3 or 4 times an hour. An hour! Every hour! To downplay the significance of wanting SF and figuring out ways to GET SF is to delude yourself.

Where there's a will there's a way. Count on it. I wish I had a penny for every BS who could swear on their mother's grave that their S could never cheat on them because they were always around, their time could be accounted for, etc...and then the BS is presented with solid evidence or a confession, and the wheels are off the wagon.
Come to think of it, I was one of those spouses. My FWH was with me every weekend, every evening, whenever he wasn't at work...then it came out that he would leave work for periods of time, skip meetings that I knew he not only was supposed to attend for his job but was also in charge of, leave early from events I'd already had confirmation he was at...oh, yeah. Where there's a will...

So if he is having s with her I dont want him anymore. He hasnt convinced me he isnt and it seems this points to more than likely he is. In such case, he is having s with us both which is disgusting to me. If I find this out to be true I dont know if I could ever look at him again. Let alone stay married to him.

The job he has would probably prevent him from participating in what you decribed above but I guess when there is a will there is a way. So I wont ignore the fact it could e true.

All this has been enlightening to say the least. I want to give him room to "wake up" but I cant if I think he is sleeping with her. Telling his friends or family wont stop him if he is doing what you described above. I strongly feel that is the wrong thing to do, I am sorry if you guys cant get past that.

I will stop wasting you time and not do this anymore. I hope you think about advising people to expose to everyone before you know all the facts. I guess people have to act as they see fit but people are very vulnerable in this situation and want someone to tell them what to do. Although I apreciate the efforts if thats all you got thanks anyway.

L&F, this is a very understandable position, and I don't fault you for it one bit. So the bottom line now is, do you want to try to save the M or not? If not, then it's best you cut the line as soon as possible. On the other hand, if you think your M can be rebuilt, then listen to the advice given here. It's more valuable than diamonds and gold combined!

This is your boundary, and no one is going to tell you should believe otherwise.

L&F, the people here advise as they do because their efforts are designed to help people recover their M. Doing so requires immediate, resolute action. If your choice is that you don't want to recover, that's your choice. I respect your choice, and so will everyone here.

You are hurting, I get that. The person you love so deerly is hurting you/himself/your family, yet you, out of instinct of "Do no harm" THINK you are protecting him and his reputation. EXPOSURE is the most likely way to end his A. He actually needs you right now and you are failing him. He is about to blow up his life and his family because he is BONKERS in some fantasy love affair. He is totally drunk and needs his loving, caring, beautiful wife to take the keys from him. He will so appreciate this a year or two down the road if you take control of the situation and blow this A up. EXPOSE TO EVERYONE RIGHT NOW!! You will feel so good about it. I promise you! This will save your M and your life! DUDE

Lost, I've been following your thread...

Not one person here would blame you, the BS, for wanting out of your M. Infidelity gives us BS's a "get out of marriage free card" if we choose to use it. This is 100% your choice, there's not a thing any of us could say to sway you one way or the other, nor should we try.

The advice you've been getting regarding exposure is based upon MARRIAGE BUILDER'S principals, that is why we're supporting it; we're all on a MARRIAGE BUILDER'S website!

I get that you are hurting, I get that you want to save your marriage, but when you're on a MB website, you're going to get MB advice. It is what it is.

If you'd like other types of advice, then you might want to visit other websites.


We would love to see you and help you save your marriage, but ultimately the steps you take or don't take are completely up to you.

Maybe this approach isn't what you're comfortable with, and that's okay... but then, why are you *here*?

Lost, advising exposure isn't something we can't "get past"- it's the thing that WORKS. Why would we try to avoid something that works?? Of course people are vulnerable in this situation - ask all of the BSs on here. We can all tell your our stories of vulnerability. You're making it sound like we're a bunch of rubes who've never been there, and who are dispensing snake-oil wisdom without the benefit of knowing whether it works. And that's wrong.

It isn't a matter of wasting our time, here. If you don't intend to follow MB priciples you're pretty much wasting your time.

I do wish you well, and I do hope everything turns out well for you. You seem like such a nice person. Good luck!

BTW, my DH's infidelity was exposed, and you know what? He has learned who his real friends are and we have learned who are true friends to our M.

How many people have you heard of that saved their M's by your method? How many of those people have BETTER M's? How many just went back to status quo?

We found out who our true friends are, as well. One of them who didn't make the cut, I'm sorry to say, is a decades-old friend of my H who knew about the A before D-Day and didn't counsel him to get out of it. Chop chop...friend is now off our 'friend list.'

That goes for me, too. A decades-old friend, it turns out, is still "buddy-buddy" with WW, telling me to my face how much better off I am now, and then "ratting" to WW about things I share with him in confidence.

He was the first one on my tree-trimming party guest list. He's now the first one off it.

We, too, had to get rid of the toxic "friends". Good Riddance!

Life is too short to surround oneself with people like that. It's a sad thing to have to do, but one that was very easy when you could see the damage it was causing.

Our M was worth MUCH MORE than that!

"He was the first one on my tree-trimming party guest list. He's now the first one off it."

Tree-trimming party? NOT

Hey, it was advice given to me here! And I don't EVER turn down advice given here.

Dear Lost:

I want you to know that I empathize with you. My husband, i feel was so lost, confused, so starved for attention, attention I had refused to acknowledge, that he was ripe for an A. So when the younger, much younger woman, started showing him anything but friendship, he jumped at the chance to feel loved, wanted, desired, cherished, important.....

I am not saying he was right, I am not saying that I take on any responsibility for his choice to walk outside our marriage, however, I am saying that under the right circumstances any and all of us are vulnerable.....and he was.

When I learned, from him, what his intentons were. I went in to fighting mode.. I did not fight the way MB says completly. We are all individuals, and so are our marriages. I have known my WS for 28 years. Yes he is an alian now, but he wasn'T always.. I can see the man inside. He is racked with guilt and confused with what he needs and what he wants.

I have been willing to try and meet the obviouse untill I can see he is making choices and decisions based on a WS mind or a RWS mind or an I am leaving you mind.

It is not popular, nor is it easy. I don't feel we have to agree or put in to practice 100 percent MB philosophy. There are alot of things i would have done differently, but we are here now.

you know your husband, even the alian husband has some of the same characteristics, meet the needs you know he has, hang on to yourself as best you can....and when it all becomes to much....Plan B.

I have been doing Plan A for 9 months...I just can not give up. There are moments when it is just him and I...I am looking to turn those moments into hours, into days.......

Ok Fred, be careful. There are total geeks on here. They know a lot about MB, but little about being cool(which is what the ladies like). Let me help you w/ that. Please don't have a "tree trimming party". Please have a football watching party where some guests might throw a few glassy items on your tree. DUDE

lol, dude

But betty - do you think it would help to go 100% MB? Maybe those hours WOULD become days...a lifetime...

Betty I'm not familiar with your story, but 9mos of Plan A has to have been alot to take. I think you may be doing your own self's healing a disservice by remaining in Plan A for so long.

I've been here for two years, while not as long as some of the Vets, it's been long enough to see plenty of marriages fail by using Plan Betty and Plan Lost; granted I've seen some fail using Plan MB, as well, but I haven't seen ONE recovery with Plan Betty or Plan Lost, and I've seen a number with Plan MB.


My BS heart goes out to you two. You are worth more than what you are putting up with.

Do not misinterpret what i am saying. I have been following MB to the best of my ability. That being said, there were some things that i did not do, ie. exposure....by the time i found this web site, it was null and void. I did go with my gut instinct and i don't thing i was 100 wrong. nothing is 100%. right or wrong. my WS has done NC, we are moving forward, we are building on what we have and what we have lost. We have done 2 of the questionnaires, we are waiting for the SAA book.. i just meant to say that i did not follow completely 100% the rule book from MB. Wrong or right, it is what it is. and i think we are moving forward to recovery. not because i feel it, but because he has exhibited the things that have been mentioned here.

this is a wonderful tool, this forum, but nothing is set in stone. i was just trying to convey that even if we don't follow 100%, there is still hope and recovery. By the time i found this website, exposure was not an option. there are more than just 1 road to recovery.

i was just trying to say, that like me, 28 years of knowing someone should account for something. yes, he is an alian, but an alian with a past. if we can connect to that past, we will know how to reach him.. history accounts for something.

i am not discrediting this program. i believe in it and am proacticing every portion i can. so please bear with me.

never, never, never should you agree 100% with anything without question, if you do, one of you is unecessary. and i do believe non of us is unnesessary. just because i did not, or chose not to follow completely does not make my relationship a relationship that will fail and not recover.

Dear Bottlerocket:

read my thread, swimming...but taking on water. then and only then do you have a right to comment on me. I am not following Plan Betty or Plan Lost.

My WS and I are trying to rebuild our marriage and relationship based alot on this program, MB techniques and philosophys. Have we been 100% successful, no. Have I tired from 9 months from DD, yes. But Plan A has been with rewards, so 9 months of Plan A has been productive and appreciated by my WS. If things had not changed, within the first couple months, Plan B would have been instituted. My WS has also, for several months been Plan A'ing me, in his own style and way.

Don't make a rash judgement on a circumstance that you haven't bothere to investigate.

Blindsidebetty,
I also found MB after the fact and like you I didn't know about exposure. We first did MC and we were fortunate to find a good MC that did make a difference. When we found this site my FWH liked it better because it was a plan that we could follow. We're reovered and I credit the MC and following the Harley concepts (although it wasn't MB 100%).

Gg

Plan A is only supposed to be for 4 weeks.

9 months is unrealistic even for MEN...

You are all over the place emotionally and sounds like H is too. I am sure that WH was at the point of some kind of breakdown for him to hook up with what seems to be a real mess of a "women?". The OW is probably a nut-job of some type. Maybe his self esteem was so low that he just didn't care anymore. get checked for STD's and if you think she could resort to violence, get a restraining order.

He needs you to reassure him that it can get better if you both take your marriage to the light and separate the truth from the dramatic crap that you both have fallen into.

It does not matter what you might have done to hurt him in the past, The guilt you are feeling has a place in therapy to help you stop past behavior isssues you both have. Only after you recieve some help will you get a handle on what can be done to save your marriage or yourselves from more pain.

Tell his Dad, He wants his son to excell in life I am sure. Your husband sounds like he is an overachiever, in the past willing to endure more than what he percieves to be fair to achieve what he sees as a positive result. He needs help and this affair is something he fell into that is hurting him more. He knows it but is too proud to get help. His Dad is probably the first person to talk to in this intervention/exposure. I promise you that a marriage can survive this exposure. Didn't you say he pays for a house for OW?, I.E., A place to see her in BTW. If he is sleeping with her because she fufills some kind of physical reckless abandon issue then you guys will continue to suffer.

Get help now and put the marriage vows in charge. Those promises you both made to each other and swore to are what will help you both out of the fog. You in your mislead idea that you can be the only source of love for him that he should need and... his idea that he can do it alone. If you continue to allow both of your emotions to be the rudder that steers your marriage you will bash into the rocks over and over again till you sink or do unnessesary damage that will hurt you both for the rest of your life.

You can do this, you need to for Gods sake, Stand up and have faith that the truth is nothing to be afraid of. This is an opportunity for you both to experiance a love that is bigger than what you have now.

Do you want the message to your kids to be; "Live in sacrifice towards everyone but in the end you just can't win"? Oh come on now. Stop being the suffering saviour. The best lesson,(gift), you can teach,(show), your children is humility. If your car broke down would you assume you could fix everything on it because you know how to drive it, put in gas and change the oil? Don't assume you can get thru this and have a healthy marriage without some help from the professionals.

Both of you will be blessed if you will allow yourselves to. Time for you both to get healthy if not for yourselves, then for your children. You are worth it, all of you.

You came to the right place. These people know what they are talking about and will help you fight for your marriage and they are for you, not against you. Catperson has a very real and practical handle on this.
Put the oxygen mask on yourself first. You feel so bad because affairs are the most painful experiances anyone can feel. Don't trust your emotions and realize that they are trying to run your rational thoghts. You need to trust this place.
In the end you will want to look back on this and see it as a battle you won. maybe even laugh about. The exposure issue will be the something you both will understand was nessesary. Who wants to hide anyways?

"The door of opportunity swings on the hinges of adversity" --unknown.

Dear LF:

Just wondered how you are doing, and what's going on with you. Hope all is as well as it can be. The holidays can be excruciatingly difficult.

thinking of you

Hey betty. Thanks for the thinking of you. I am still hanging in there.

to all...I understand the MB methods are what you promote here. And, I am sure they work for a great deal of couples. This is a great place for someone to get support. I am usually not like this. If there is a problem I am all for doing something.... I meet it head on..Not just waiting. Which it may seem to all of you I am just sitting and waiting.

Thanks for the advice. I have not given up. I may very well end up losing him. Not what I want at all. But, I did tell him he needed to make up his mind but before he did he should talk to someone that can help him sort through the way he feels. I told him I think he doesnt realize this is something lots of people go through and it doesnt have to end his marriage. He should at least listen to what other people have to say about A and what it costs them.
Ot to some that were able to salvage their marriage and realized what happened and can give him sound advice.

He has gotten in touch with someone but hasnt talked to them yet that I know of. But, he has been a different person since we talked. He seems more at ease and more himself. Its amazing. I dont know what he will do in the end but at least it will be his decision.


I wont be here as much as I was but I will keep reading. thanks for going to the trouble to read my posts.

Love is an action verb based on a decision

Well said sorting it out.


He is talking to someone to help him to understand what he is feeling. I hope and pray it will help. He isnt sure what he wants amymore he told me. He is asking for help. Thats a start.

He is a reckless nut job that needs to be slapped back into sanity. Have you nuclear exposed yet? DUDE

I cant help but love you Dude

Im tired and all this sux. I just want to go to sleep and not wake up for a very long time! Just cant do it right now!

Are you taking anti-depressants?

I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas.

Are you taking anti-depressants?

Didnt mean to avoid the question. No. I am not taking anti-depressants. I have thought about getting them but it will have to be after Christmas. We are doing fine right now. Christmas in a couple days and kids will go back to school. Things will get back to normal and we will see how it goes.

We have plans to take a trip in January. Quiet place we can spend time together. I am looking forward to it.

Great Christmas! Dont know yet what will be next. I am doing much better myself. Still want my marriage and my family as much as ever I just feel like I can deal with whatever happens now. I hope so!

I may not have a job anymore if I go on the trip in January, I go back and forth on that. Which is more important. I think I can find another job!!! I just dont know how important it is to him though,

The question, dear lost and found, how important is it to you? I often find in my situation, that if i wait, or would have waited for it to be important to him, i would have lost an opportunity to be with him, or meet his needs or love him. Sometimes, you have to think about you and your needs and meet them as if he were meeting them. Do you want to go, do you want time alone with him, will this make you happy?

More than anything I want to spend time with him>

then by all means, go and spend time with him. i do not say this lightly, we live pay check to pay check. i know what losing my job would do to us;however, i also know what losing him would do to me... Get another job if you have to - keep your husband, make him feel irreplaceable because as far as you are concerned...he is.

Still hanging in there. I wish I could say all is well but I cant go a day without seeing her face in my head. As a matter of fact that is all I see unless I make a conscious effort to get it out of my head.

I asked him to leave. He said he wants to stay with me. No contact with "her". This is our last chance. I feel like I have no more in me. I need something for myself. Just the smallest gesture from him means everything.

Its easy to say you would do anything. I would like to be that strong, I need something from him. I see the effort but I want more, Just little things. I dont ask for much.

I am going to continue to be who he needs but it is hard to trust him although I am really trying. I dont want to give up. As long as he hasnt given up I dont believe I should. There is something I must be able to do that I havent found yet. Something he is looking for that I just cant put my finger on.

Dear Lost:

i am going through the same thing. i finally presented my WH with a list of conditions to stay in this marriage. OW now lives in a different state, however; was having very hard time believing him to have NC. he swears he has, but i finally sat down and tried to understand what i need from him and this relationship.

he told me he picked me, he loves me, he wants our family, our marriage....well then he needs to provide for me and my EN just like i have been for him. no more plan A, plan B...not a dark plan B, he didn't leave but i did present him with this letter.

in my letter it states clearly that if any of the EP that we have put into place are broken, if there is any contact whatever, then he will be asked to leave. i can't take anymore really. i love him, i want our marriage but it is time after 9 long months that he step up and start participating in this relationship. i need him to.

you will see on my thread we went away for the weekend, and it went ok, got home and all hell broke loose, finally 3 days later, i told him what i needed, expected and would have to have to get over this "issue".

the truth is i expected nothing from him during plan a, and i plan a'd for a very long time. now, i expect something from him, and i told him this. non-negotional, he needs to know that expectations are normal in a working relationship and for ours to work he has to step it up.

i needed this for me. you deserve this too. he needs to let you know how he wants to be with you. real recovery comes with a plan, take a look at some of these articles and decide what plan works best for you and your husband.

i too see "her" face everywhere. my husband shouted at me not to long ago that he doesn't even think of her until i bring her up, and i heard what he said and took it in and made a mental note not to bring her up to often, but i did tell him this:" You brought her into this marriage, not me. i worked hard to get her out of your head and heart and now you are going to have to work just as hard to get her out of mine!" this was the truth for me, maybe not everyone. he wasn't to happy to hear it, but he took it in.

We are a work in prgress, i still have many questions and my love in unconditional but not my trust. it never will be again, and it really shouldn't be for either of us.

take heart, have faith, but read up on plan b, put a plan together, you really need to expect things from him, he needs to contribute to the recovery of your marriage.

thinking of you

Iy has been a while since I logged in here. My h moved out in February. He is now asking for a divorce. I dont want a divorce. Is there any hope or is it all over?

His family and friends are all telling him he is making the biggest mistake of his life.

He is financially unable to handle what it will take to keep our kids in college and a roof over both our heads if we live separately. He is staying with a friend right now.

I have asked everyone I know to try and talk to him but he is stubborn. He wont listen to anyone. The woman has been seeing another man and has told my H she is not leaving her new boyfriend and that she loves her new boyfriend. Still, he thinks he will get her back.

I spent the first few weeks talking to him and he called and came to see us when he wanted to. After a few weeks the kids decided they did not want him to come to a family activity. A few days after that happened he filed for divorce. He came into my house while I was out and left papers on the dresser in my room.

My family, his family and my friends all tell me why would i want him back? Because he is my H and I have spent the last 23 years "knowing" I had him to count on and I would alawys be there for him to count on. If he needed me I was there. He has always been there for me. Until now! There is something wrong with him. It is not my H that is doing this. He himself said that he is not the same man.

Lost- Did you ever fully expose?

Yes. Everyone knows. His family and mine. Thats when he filed for divorce. Before that he was calling and coming to see us at least every other day. I felt like he was coming home to get his fix on our "family" and then back to wherever he was staying. He wont tell us where he is staying.

I havent signed anything yet but soon I will probably be forced to at least sign I was served. Even though I haven been legally served if I dont sign the Acknowledgement he will probably send a Sheriff's Deputy to serve me.

I can either come to an agreement on the divorce and move on or file that I disagree that the marriage is over and ask the court not to grant him the divorce. That we can reconcile,

I have thought about calling some of his and my old friends and asking them to talk to him. There are a few old friends that we dont see often but mean a lot to both of us. They know us well and wondered if that would help. Couldnt hurt I suppose.

I just want my husband back. He is not this person doing all this. I dont even recognize my H the way in the things he has been doing. Will he ever realize how much his family loves him, how much I love him, and how much he is giving up? How can I make him realize? Everything is falling apart around me and I am helpless to stop it!

Lost- Every knows, but did YOU tell them? Just curious from reading your thread. I share your frustration as I am in a similar situation with my WW. It is so frustrating that even after exposure, she continues to head down this path. She has also filed.

I think you have to realize that he is not the same person you once knew. Yes, he may be in there somewhere, but right now he isn't your husband.

I can't offer much advice on how to proceed, other than to say to focus on yourself at this point. If you can no longer work the Plan A methods, then it's probably time for a Plan B. I would call those old friends. You never know what might get through to him.

Lost,

I am in the same boat as you. My wife, as I knew her is gone. I don't think the woman I married is coming back.

It is kind of like watching that movie "Pet Cemetary" when the little boy comes back to life, but he was evil.

I want more than anything to have my wife, and family, back. But, just because she looks the same doesn't mean she is the same. Once I realized that, and enough time has passed to understand that she probably will never come back, it has made it A LITTLE easier to let go.

I did actually tell his family. They knew somethng was not right even though we live miles apart and they called me and asked. Then they called him and asked what he was thinking. Emails and calls are all that has gotten to him though. He wont answer calls anymore from what they have told me. His mother wants all the family to get together and have an intervention.

I think that is a good idea. At least he will know where everyone stands and that everyone cares about him. His mom thinks she has lost him and says she just hopes she hasnt lost me and the kids too. Of course she hasnt lost us. Or him, but for now he isnt thinking about anyone but himself.

What about the divorce action. Does anyone have an idea as to how I should handle it. His parents tell me to use everything I have to get all I can and let him have the divorce. If we can reconcile we can remarry.

You say your spouse has filed. Are you going to give in and let your spouse have the divorce?

It is not easy to let go because if you are truly committed to your marriage you and she are one. Its like cutting out an organ that you cant live without.

Of course, it will heal. It will just take time and a lot of effort. I believe when this happens it can be mended. A relationship that was once strong can weather anything. I believe that people go through changes but really are the same basic person. It is just a matter of how long you are willing to wait for your spouse to heal. Sometimes it is too painful and you have to let go.

I have been told he is killing me. My friends and family have been encourageing me to put my energy into myself so that what he does doesnt hurt me all the time. I have gotten better but it is difficult. I am afraid to let go because I am not willing to give up on and accept the idea it is over!

I dont believe there is only one partner for every person and if we miss the boat we are lost. It is just that when you spend your whole life building something to have someone come along and take it away you want to fight for it!!!I think it is natural to feel that way. And I still have some fight in me!

Unfortunately, it takes TWO to make a marriage work, but only ONE to dismantle it. I can drag my feet or try to stall the process, but ultimately, if we continue, we will be divorced. I signed the 'answer' to her petition to divorce before I came to my training here, however I instructed my attorney not to file it until the last possible moment. I had 30 days to respond so on day 30, she will get her response.

I realize that I can't really stop it, but I don't have to help it along either. I will wait till the last minute for any of my requirements and try to make her do all the 'heavy lifting' to make it happen. I am still in Plan A by the way and I deflect any divorce talk if I can. When we were talking of D, I tried to suggest an 'options' talk with my WW.

I explained that we had basically 4 options at this point in our relationship.

1. Divorce- Default in any marriage. WW wants.
2. Status Quo- Living as we currently are. Neither of us want.
3. Indeffinate Separation- Again, neither of us wants.
4. Have a great Marriage- I want, WW does not.

I try to pursuade my WW that having a great marriage IS possible and worth investigating what it would take to get there. It should at least get as much attention as the divorce option. I wasn't asking for a committment from her, just her to be willing to research what it would take.

I think the intervention idea would be great. I'm no expert, but I think it may be best if they did the intervention without you there. Let his family express their feelings towards him and he will reap the consequences of his actions with them. This allows you to sort of be the 'good guy' and not involved. Just my opinion on that.

I don't think this is bad advice at all. You should start focusing on yourself and work towards self-improvement. That doesn't mean that you are giving up. You can do both simultaneously.

Work towards your own independance. Fix the issues that you may have had pre-A and become a better, confident person. Do this FOR YOURSELF. At the same time, go ahead and fight for your marriage. Somebody has got to and it isn't him currently. You are not alone. Stay strong.

I would not encourage you to give up. I know, for me, I had to feel like I did everything, and I mean, everything possible. Otherwise, I would always regret it.

I have done a great Plan A for 15 months. I lived through a false recovery and 2 affairs with 2 different men. There will come a time when you have had enough.

If you are not there, then I suggest you keep plugging along, just don't do it at the risk of your own sanity. Keep working on yourself - I hated hearing people tell me that earlier on, but your spouse will see the changes (whether they decide to come back or not) and you will be better for it.

Make sure you follow the MB principles and the advice of the vets here. Don't second guess it or think you know better. It will save you from making classic mistakes.

Plan A was never meant to go on longer than 6 months for men. You're just torturing yourself if you go longer...

Mine was an odd situation. 1st affair ended. We started recovery for 4 months then OM#2 came along. Torture is right, but I feel at peace giving up now.

You feel at peace because of how she's tramped over the wedding vows; this gives you EVERY RIGHT to give up. Hence the peace. You're letting go.

I hope that his family will go ahead with the intervention before it is too late.

The petition has been filed but that is all. I want to wait to do anything until he forces me to. I think the tougher I make it for him the less likely it will happen. I may be just buying time but that's all I have right now.

I am trying to take the advice regarding finding some independence. You can be someone's partner without being totally dependent on them. I have been emotionally dependent on my H for along time. Somewhere along the way I lost myself to him and the kids.

As for giving up.... I dont think I will ever give up!!

What about the idea of sending a copy of the basic concepts to my H to read along with a letter saying I have found some information that I think could help us and hope he will read it. That when he is ready I would very much like to talk about it.

Even though he has filed for Divorce what could it hurt? I just want him to know there is nothing he can do that will make me change my mind about wanting to save our marriage.

Dear lostandfound:

i am so sorry, my heart broke reading your posts. i was hopeful when you did not post for so long. you are right, he is not the husband you have spent all those years loving, nurturing, growing with. you and you alone will be the only one to decide how long you can do this, hold on, wait.

even if you need to let go to move on, only you can decide how to love him. loving him from afar may be an option you wll need to consider.

All things are possible for those who love the Lord.......all things are possible, but we do not control all things.

love yourself more right now and do what is necessary to hold on to your sanity, your strength and your hope. your children and family and friends sound like they are a great source of support and love and compassion. let them hold you up on the days your legs get weary.

my heart is broken for you.....

Thank you for your words. I did think things were better. We were doing better. But, I could not get him to break it off with her. She would go for a week or two without calling and give him just enough time to start feeling a little relief and then she would call again. Phone records show this is exactly what she did. She knew exactly what she was doing and the kind of power she has over him.

Valentines Day he was so distant and I just couldnt take it. A few days went by and I finally said something like if he didnt want me and couldnt love me like I needed to be loved then he needed to let me go. That evening he didnt come home. I really thought he would come back but he just got further and further away.

I pray that God will help him find his way home. I pray that the OW will realize she cant find happiness by destroying a family. I pray my H realizes what he has at home and begins to work his way back to where he belongs. I truly want him to find peace. I only hope he does before he does more damage to his kids. In the end he will be the one that suffers the most knowing what he has done and what he has needlessly lost.

I emailed the basic principles to him. Who knows. Maybe he will read them. Maybe it will spur something in him and he will begin to think.

Its been a couple of days and I havent heard from him. No surprise huh? I dont know how long it will be before he serves papers and I am forced to respond. I cannot stand the thought of him not being my H. I cant stand the thought of this.

Some days I am positive and have Faith that this will all be overcome and the wonderful family I once had will be whole again. Other days I dont know how much longer I can take it.

He hasnt talked to me about us for about 3 weeks. He came our youngest daughter's Prom and to come over to do some repairs on some things in the house for me. We didnt talk about the D or anything else except the lawnmower the dryer etc.

I cant imagine my life going on without him. I cant imagine birthdays, Christmas, graduations, weddings... all the things we were suppose to do together. How can I possibly do them without him? I can hardly make myself leave the house every day to go to work.

I know I have to work so that I can have food in the house. I know I have to do those Holidays and our grand daughters Tball games and the Recitals and the swim meets...... But it is so hard to be there when he has always been there with me. For 23 years it has been the two of us. We did all these things with 5 kids and now 2 grandkids. How can he leave me? What can this OW possibly have that can take the place of what we have?

There has got to be a way to get through to him. Isnt there something I should be doing?

L&F, here is an affirmation that I printed out and taped above my computer screen. It has helped me tremendously. I hope it can do the same for you.

l&f,
I would highly recommend you get involved in a local church. Involve your Pastor! I was fortunate enough that she was able to get be in contact with other Christians who were going through the exact same scenario. It makes a big difference when you can talk through your frustrations and concerns with a person who has felt or is feeling the exact same thing.
Get totally involved with your kids and grandkids. You sound like a #1 Mom in my book. They will be there for you to talk, for hugs, etc.
Other than this, I don't know if there is much you can do involving the A. The ball is completely in his court.

I have been very busy this week. Kids are coming home for the Summer and work is getting busy. Had a great week until today. The girls are having a really tough time dealing with what he has done. Today they got into a huge argument about their dad. It was awful to see them tearing each other apart like that.

Fred, you are right. I have to do better for my girls. They need to see I can be happy without him. They need that from me. I need to act as if I am already Divorced. I say I have worked on myself and in some respects I have. But, I have not come nearly far enough.

Tomorrow is Mother's Day. We are all planning to go to visit with the "whole" family in our home town. My H is planning to be there as well as members of my family. I am holding my breath to see how it turns out. I imagine the way to act should be cheerful and content. I just hope all is nice for the Grand Mothers and all the kids.

Happy Mother's Day to all.

I think I will print out you post and have it to read everyday. Thanks so much for sharing it with me.

Thanks surviving. I have been spending a little more time with the grandkids. They are growing up so quickly. The oldest is 3 now. She is an angel and does give the sweetest hugs. The baby is 1. He just walks around smiling. They both make you forget about all the bad parts of life.

More and more I think I do need to find someone to talk to. It is hard at first to admit to yourself this is happening. I guess its high time I realize it is out of my control. Thats the hardest part of all. He kept telling me I cant fix this! I just wouldnt listen.

I am looking at a job several hours away. A new place and a new start. Depending on the salary I may just take it and move away from all this. I believe if I were away from this house I may find it easier to move on.

I talked to my H and mentioned the COncepts I emailed him and said I thought something like this could help us figure out what went wrong and make a new start. He has finally said that he jsut doesnt believe that things will change. That he has been unhappy and doesnt believe it will ever be different.

I felt that by stating this he has been thinking about it. He text me and said no one ever contact him except by text. As if it made him angry. I told him I hadnt called him because I didnt think he wanted to hear from me and I didnt want to bother him. He insisted I am not bothering him. So, I called after we text back and forth for an hour. We talked til 2 in the morning. Maybe he is just missing home but he wouldnt have talked to me or listened that long if he was indifferent to me. Would he?

I want to show him that things are already different. He said that I did not appreciate him and was not happy with him as my husband. I always have been but I can see why he would think I took him for granted. This is a short story of what is very complicated and long but I need to know how to show him our relationship can be different. It can be better than ever.

If I dont see him he wont know. If he continues with the divorce it wont be easy to even see him. How do I get to him. Do I invite him to the house to dinner like we did when he first left? Or do I drop by the office with lunch for him? I made an album for him of all the years we were married and put it on a DVD. Should I give him it? I bought him a subscription to a magazine he mentioned he used to read and enjoyed before he left. Should I bring him the magazines and tell him what I had done? These are things I have always done but the last year we were married he was so indifferent to everthing at home I gave in and did much of nothing. He said I was miserable.

I like the post Fred in VA posted. It makes sense. I am not sitting around dwelling on the problem anymore but I still want to find a solution. I can live without him and have a fine life I suppose. I just believe it will be much better with him in it!

Have read a lot of posts on here this weekend. I havent written a Plan B letter yet. Today is the day we are suppose to meet and talk about all of this. If he decides he wants to meet I will try to talk. I hope he will do the talking and I can listenfor a change. Depending on the outcome I plan to hand him the letter.

I have read on here many that ask how to forgive their WH for cheating. Somehow, I have not had that problem. He really hast asked for forgiveness. I just cant seem to forgive myself. It is easier to take the responsibility for it all and know I can change.

So, I suppose the Plan B is what I shouldve done all along. I cant "fix" him and it makes me so sad! I dont know what to say to him in the letter. Except just to tell him that until he is ready to completely cut the OW from his life I cant have anything to do with him. He can contact the kids directly. If he needs to make contact about the D he should call my attorney

I am not ready to say it is over but its not my decision.

He never called It is almost like a game. He says he will call like a teenage boy and then just doesnt bother. it is like he wants me to hurt. Like he is tyring to punish me. The last time we spoke about the D he said if I let my lawyer "lose" I will regret it. I will have some explaining to do to his parents and the kdis and others. As if he had something to reveal to them about me. I just said that I had not done anything to hurt him and did not want to now.

I dont know who he spends his time with anymore or how he spends his time. He works most nights and every day during the week so he doesnt have a lot of free time. I have invited him to several family get togethers on Sunday which he has come to all of them. The kids are at the point they dont want him here anymore. They tell me if I invite him They will not be here.

I only thought if I quit talking to him altogether he may miss me. He doesnt seem to miss me or he certainly doesnt say he does. He used to always tell me he loves me but hasnt done that in quite a while. He is putting me out of his heart and mind.

I cant just give up. Working on myself is a great idea in theory. How do I do that? A little at a time. I need to be positive and strong. Its not easy.

My family and his think I need to ignore him and let him see what he is missing. I am not sure. I am afraid I havent done enough. Maybe that is my problem and I need to figure out what I am worth. This can sure make you feel worth a whole lot less than you want to feel.

Brought him a blueberry buscuit to his office this morning. Gave him a big smile and kissed him on the cheek and told him to have a good day and left. He just smiled and watched me leave.

Spent the evening with my kids. Cooked and then played games at the kitchen table. Spent the weekend at the pool. Good to have the kids at home.

I Still havent heard from him. Except when I text him about a job for my son and his truck. He answers when I ask about the kids.

His mother is scared he will end up alone and die alone. She wont call him. None of his family will. I dont understand it. They are worried about him and say he is making a mistake but no one is willing to try to get through to him. I am perfectly willing to talk to her and glad she talks to me but I dot udnerstand why she wont tell him these things. She did tell him once in an email but only got a response from him after I prompted him to answer her so he could make her feel a little better.

I have stayed busy and changed my daily routine so I dont look for him in everything I do. I am better than before anyway.

I wrote the letter but not sure when to give it to him. Not sure when is the right time.

Atena. How did Plan B go. This was posted in December.

OK, my exposure did nothing to the A as it came too late (I have been in plan B now for over 2 months so I am sticking to MB). On top of that we live in Europe and H's whole family is in the States so he feels no pressure from them, but I know for sure his mom and dad talked to him and they are devastated...however they are not close by to be able to put pressure.All his siblins are on my side. H rented a studio in a very remote area and sees nobody but OW. We work together and he knows that people at work know, nevertheless nobody has confronted him and he seems fine talking to people as if nothing happened. Imagine..he did not even tell his direct superior about the separation...
So, do not wait to be in my situation where exposure came too late and was to no avail.

Everyone knowing didnt change a thing, He spends all his time alone except when he is at work. I dont know what his co-workers think. His boss only comes to town a few times a year.

His family is dissapointed in him but say nothing to him. He doesnt call them and they dont call him.

He looks terrible. Lost weight. Bags under eyes. He needs help and so do I.

So exposure came in march. Maybe it was too late like so many said. Is there is nothing more anyone can tell me as I dont listen very well, do I? I read this thread over and over. I was too sad, weak, unstable, scared.... to tell anyone. I was in a nightmare and all I wanted to do was wake up.

Everyone knowing didnt change a thing, He spends all his time alone except when he is at work. I dont know what his co-workers think. His boss only comes to town a few times a year.

His family is dissapointed in him but say nothing to him. He doesnt call them and they dont call him.

He looks terrible. Lost weight. Bags under eyes. He needs help and so do I.

So exposure came in March. It was after he had left. So, it was too late like so many said. Is there is nothing more anyone can tell me as I dont listen very well, do I? I read this thread over and over. I was too sad, weak, unstable, scared.... to tell anyone. I was in a nightmare and all I wanted to do was wake up.

I printed out what Fred posted and the "The fear is what paralyzes you". I have "Read His Needs Her Needs".
I have read as much as I have had time for. But I cant find the answers. Fix myself first. How? I cant get that man out of my head!

The way to get him out of your head is

to go to

Plan B

No contact with him. No sight, sound, reading messages.
If you are dark and truly stick with it, you will think less and less of him which is the important next step of plan B

No thinking of him.

Plan B is very tough to do at first but if you truly stick to the denial of access to you of the wayward H, you WILL get stronger and eventually wonder if having him back is something you might even do. That is power lady. Power.

You can do it. Sounds like you need to.

Sigh. Wishing you renewed strength.

You are right, you can not fix him. Now, go fix yourself and grow in getting to know who you are as an individual. What matters to you. Ultimately, what you will accept in your life and what you will not accept.

I do the things people do every day. Get up in the morning. Do things around the house. Spend time talking to the kids (they are all home right now). I have been working in some projects around the house like painting, yard work, cleaning closets out.... Not a minute goes by I dont think about my Husband and where he would fit into what I am doing....

Its been 8 months since that day, Three months since he left. THis has been the shortest 8 months of my life. Its like my life has stopped waiting for it to get itself back together again. I cannot believe it. I dont want anymore time to pass.

In two weeks I will be 50. I gave him a party on his 50th birthday. I brought 50 helium balloons home and had them all over the living room to surprsse him when he got home. The kids all were there waiting in the balloons when he and I walked in.
Then we grilled steaks at a friends and had his best friends over to celebrate. That was 4 years ago. I wish I could just skip my 50th.

I cant imagine going without talking to him anymore. He has been my bsst friend for 25 years. I am just sad tonight. You are the only one I have to talk to. Pretty pathetic huh? I dont know what to do without my best friend. Find a new best friend? I guess I have just forgotten how. At least for tonight.

Hello lostandfound,

I hear the deep despair in your recent posts. I have felt those same feelings...the aching in your soul for your best friend, the man you built your life with...a life that has so much history that you've been together longer than you were apart.

I am not familiar with your story; but from the recent posts, it sounds like you were not willing to follow the MB advice given to you. I'm very sorry to hear that. You see, following the advice I was given here was critical to my saving my marriage. Picking myself up off the floor and doing what needed done was the hardest thing I've ever faced.

Have you reached the place emotionally where you are ready to do what is necessary to give your marriage the best chance of recovery?

If so, can you post a recap of your situation? What was marriage like pre-affair? When was D-Day? Who is OW? Is this the first affair? When did you expose and to whom? Have you done a solid Plan A and for how long? What advice were you given that you did not follow?

Plan B

I think he is in Plan B. He doesnt care what any of us are doing. He is in his own world running after the OW as hard as he can. She sure knows how to play the game. Guess she has had a lot of experience. Or she just has no morals, no values and no conscience. She has no real feelings for him so she can play hard to get all she needs to. ITS WORKING!

By this post, it is clear you have no understanding of Dr. Harley's Plans.

Have you read the articles on this site?

Have you read Dr. H's articles on Plan A and Plan B?

What you describe above has nothing to do with Plan B!

My story began in October when my husband sent me a text that he had left my car in the office parking lot. You see, we have been sharing a car for several years now so that our college kids could have cars at college. I left and as I drive home I received a second text from him. It read "I am not coming home. I love you but I cant live with youy anymore. I am movng in the 'OW'. I know you are upset so I will wait to call you in a few days".

To make a long story short after my 3 kids came home from college and my oldest daughter came over and my youngest daughter of 16 we gathered in my home and cried like he had died. It was horrible. After hours of searching my son finally found him and convinced him to come home. We talked and we decided to stay together and work it out.

For the next several months I did what I thought I had to do that was lacking in our marriage. He would seem happy and say he was happy to be there and then the next day act distant and sad. Two different times during those months I came home and he had moved his things again but decided to not leave. It was torture.

We have 5 kids. Three in college, one is married and one is 16. It has been devastating for my kids. They have always worshiped their dad and felt as though he was the most selfless man they knew. They have been hurt and angry at the same time. You can imagine how hard it is but if you knew our family you would know this is something none of us thought could ever happen.

In January, my kids looked up his phone records and brought them to me. He had been calling her non stop all through December. Even on Christmas DaY!!!! It was like it had happened all over again. I really thought things were looking better.

I asked him to leave that night. I told him he could not stay with me if he was not willing to give her up or if he wasnt sure he wanted me. After hours of conversation and then some sleep he told me he wanted to stay with me and he wasnt going to talk to her anymore.

Three weeks went by.

He works at night at a local pub. My oldest son called me at about 12 midnight. The OW was in the bar and he thought I should get up there. I did. My H was mad with me for coming. Said I was trying to cause problems. SAid He couldnt be there with both of us there. We left together.

Three weeks later was Valentines Day. I was so excited to get him some things. Valentines Day gave me a good excuse to fuss over him. I bought him a bagfull of things. Mostly small things. His favorite candy. Couple of ties. Cards. Anyway, he wouldnt open any of it.

After two days of not understanding why I just let it out and said if he didnt want to be there and he couldnt hold me and love me then he needed to let me go. I was drowning. At first he got angry but then he said "If you are worried I am going anywhere, dont worry anymore. I love you and I am here to stay". Exactly what I wanted to hear.

That night he called me from work. Remember we share a car. I was just about to leave t go get him. He just said I am not coming home. And, he hasnt lived here since.

We had a great marriage before this. Things have been tough for that last couple of years financially. We have had some hurdles but have always stuck together. Our kids are wonderful and everyone in town including myself thought we had a marriage made in heaven. The fairy tale marriage it was. We were nick named Barbie and Ken. All my friends have told me over and over "you two have what we all want".

Of ocurse no marriage is perfect. Our biggest problem was communication. We never did learn to talk things out when we had a disagreement. It always got swept under the rug. I didnt talk to him about things that made me insecure about him to avoid conflict. He didnt talk to me about the fact that he wasnt getting his needs met and I had no idea he was running around. I knew he was not himself but I thought it was because he was working all day and then all but 3 nights of the week til 2 in the morning. I know I have some annoying traits as well that probably couldve contributed as well.

Yes, he had another affair 12 years ago. He swears there was not S involved. He wouldnt talk to me about it. He said he didnt do anything wrong. It took at least a year for me to get past it and stop tryng to figure out who it was and why. He was depressed for a long time. I supported him the best way I could and tried to help him. We did get very close after that but I know now we shouldve done more.

I know this is getting long. As far as Plan A. I did not expose except to immediate family for a long time. When his parents were told they immediately told him what a mistake he was making but it was after he had left in February they were told. I guess it was too late. The other part of Plan A... fulfilling his EN I did as best as I could. I did not mention the A and I did the best I could to remain upbeat and happy. I did everything I knew to do. It just wasnt enough.

Yes, I am ready to do anything to save my marriage. If there is something left for me to do that will give me HOPE I will do it. The Hope that we can reconcile will be what gives me the strengh to do it. I want to stop hurting.

He is living with a elderly couple. I am fairly certain they are telling him he needs to go home to his family but he isnt listening. The OW is involved with someone else but I have proof my H is communicating with her as well. He is giving her financial support as well.

I am totally lost. I just dont want to give up. I dont know how to give up. Any help I will listen and I will try anything.

Have you read this?

What are Plan A and Plan B?


Have you read Surviving an Affair? What other MB materials have you read?

You will have to become focused and completely self-controlled from this point on. You cannot let your emotions dictate your actions any longer. You cannot let your fear be the decision maker.

I recently spoke personally with Dr. Harley about Plan A and B. Here is what he emailed me:


I stayed in Plan A too long. I suffered much emotional trauma because of that. Although we have recovered our marriage, I dealt with many triggers and memories that I could have avoided by being in Plan B. The damage caused when a BS avoids Plan B makes recovery much more difficult if the WS ever does comes out of the fog.

You are allowing yourself to drown with the marriage. Your emotional health has suffered significantly. I understand this. I've been there, too. It is time for you to get yourself healthy. You are way overdue for Plan B.

Are you willing to go completely no contact with your husband until he agrees to meet your requirements for marital recovery? Are you willing to not see or talk to him even if he tries to contact you?

This is your best chance at healing yourself and giving your marriage the best chance to recover.

This is because you have not followed the plans. You have been allowing your emotions to rule your actions. That leads to hopelessness and feeling lost.

You have been tossed by the waves of the storm for almost a year.

Step out of the storm.





Plan B is not giving up. It is stepping out of the way of the crashing storm. It is putting on the life preserver. It is saving yourself.

IF WH comes out of the fog one day, if you didn't save yourself, you will be so emotionally crippled that you will be unable to rebuild a marriage that is intimate and fulfilling and one that will be protected from a future affair.

Tonight I will read the "what is Plan A and B" over again. I have read much on this site but I am afraid much of it just doesnt sink in. I know that I am an emotional wreck. My family keeps telling me I need to help myself and let him help himself.

Thanks and I appreciate your response and especially your understanding.

lostandfound,

Being served papers does not pose a problem to Plan B. His actions are irrelevant to your entering Plan B.

Look at it this way. Plan B is a statement about YOU and YOUR LIFE. Say to yourself: He's crazy. I'm not. His wayward craziness is making me crazy, so I must remove myself from it to keep me sane.

See? That's all Plan B is. Removing yourself from the drama/craziness/wacked-out/fence-sitting/waffling/babbling/fog of the wayward so that you can remain sane...or regain your sanity.

Earlier you said everyone keeps saying to focus on fixing yourself, and you asked HOW. I have a bit of a different take on the "fix yourself" philosophy that is sometimes posted around here.

I was not broken and in need of fixing just because my husband decided to have an affair. So I do not assume that other BS's are broken and need fixing either. I think we should instead ask ourselves how to REMAIN UNBROKEN while dealing with a wayward nut. When we Plan A too long or indefinitely, we risk being so damaged by their abuse that we then do need "afixing".

So HOW do we protect ourselves from being damaged by their wayward abuse?

PLAN B!!!!!

Once you are removed from the whims of a wayward, you will begin to regain some balance and will gradually build up your strength again.





{{{{{{lostandfound}}}}}}

lostandfound,

Are you

on anti-depressants? (I do not push these, I just want to know if you are)

eating a healthy diet?

sleeping relatively OK?

exercising?

exploring some new hobbies/activities?

protecting yourself from triggering garbage (music, TV, books, etc.)?

Some posters talk about "self-care". These are some practical ways to care for yourself.

Are you a Christian?

If so, are you attending church regularly?

Are you DAILY listening to praise music, reading Scripture, praying?

Do you attend a Bible study or small group?

lostandfound,

Can you please answer my questions? And let me know if you've read the article.

lostandfound, where'd you go?

(tj)Hope you don't mind, SMB, but I copied two of your posts for RidicSit. Dr Harley's email to you and your comments on moving to Plan B really resonated with me. I thought it applied to her sitch as well. (/tj)

I don't mind at all, SusieQ!