hi new here, Wife 40 told me ilubnilwy,she's in long distance A with single male overseas. talks to him in her native spanish often. where do i begin? I read some and it's said not to discuss our relationship. So what to do step by step? Please

Gary,

Take a deep breath. I'm sorry you have to be here. Go to main web page and read the articles. It will bring up to speed when those with more experience get here. It's late, be patient, it will be more active in the morning.

Have you confronted her already?

If so, what did she say?

You need to expose the affair.
Tell WW parents and her siblings.
If possible cut off her means of contacting OM.

she has only sister and brother. no parents. They know but are keeping out of it. She knows i know, but i'm afraid to give an ultimatum! She's seen the guy twice this year on trips abroad. They maintain phone contact. She's cake-eating and a weak, scared fool is enabling. How do i proceed in a way that I may save the marriage. Is it possible?? I've heard it is possible, but tricky and delicate. Right now i am drained.

Afraid of what, exactly?

Make a list of your fears.

Hi and welcome. Hope you have read all of the stuff here and have ordered some books.

The first thing for you to realize is that the other man is meeting some of her emotional needs that you are not meeting. So read up on Plan A, and figure out what he is doing that you are not.

You don't need to give her an ultimatum. Just spend about 2 months in Plan A, showing her what a great husband you can be.

Also let her know that you will do what is necessary to save the marriage. Then talk to her brother and sister, and ask them for support in saving your marriage.

Can you give us more info about the state of the marriage? Does your wife work outside of the home? What have been some of her complaints over the years? Have you addressed them?

I am afraid that when i say "stop, it's him or me" , she'll chose him and walk. Afraid to lose her for good. We've been together 12 years, alot of good times, shared experiences, things in common. I've never been abusive nor distant nor apathetic. She said she feels lack of excitement. Loves me, but....

Hard to swallow for me. This is why i'm here...for hope, guidance, direction ,support. Please help .

Are you equally afraid she will choose to stay married and continue to betray you?
Keep you in limbo, for say, 2 more years?

Who said to give her an ultimatum?

i've read and am reading some books, forums, etc... I've really been showing what a good husband i am. She has even told others what a great guy she has. But she's told me over the past few yars that she feels BORED, even though we vacation, go out alot, see friends,etc... She works in our home with me tending the office( small health field.) Kid is older, at college. She just started a part time job at health club outside home. Life is not really a struggle as we earn a decent living. Her main and only complaint has been lack of passion. I've not been a tiger in the bedroom, but she's always said she has a low libido and sex wasn't so important to her. Now she claims it's very important , BUT she doesn't Feel it with me. I tried and tried and tried, but it's been two months since any intimacy. YET...she continues to cuddle at nite in bed. It confuses me??

Yes, i'm afraid of LIMBO. As far as ultimatum, friends and family have suggested that.Tough love book talks about asking spouse to leave or chose. ??

What did/does your son have to say about his mother's adultery?

son MAY be aware but hasn't really asked. HE'S a teen , caught up in teen stuff ,college, girls, ... He is my stepson and we have a pretty good relationship but i don't realy want to burden him.

Well then, what are you willing to do to stop your wife's adultery?

And, what are you unwilling to do to stop your wife's adultery?

I should also say that wife TOLD me that she Thinks that she is possibly SABOTAGING out relationship because she may DEEP down feel unworthy of me?? She flat out refuses therapy to examine this. I'm not sure, but i do suspect her childhood in south america may have something to do with this. She has told me she was ABUSED when she was young by some male family friends. She won't elaborate, but no father was Ever present and mother had lots of male friends. It's complicated, but i love this woman!

None of this other stuff matters (except your love for her) until her adultery/affair is killed.

Please answer the questions about what you are willing/unwilling to do.

Sorry to be wimpy here. I don't know how to answer that. I , OF COURSE, want it to stop !!! I Don't know how to stop it. Some say expose it . Some don't. I'm trying to read up where i can. Going to read Dr. Harley. Also reading "Divorce Remedy "book. My head spins sometimes. Trying to be strong!!! Need Support!!

How??? do i kill an affair period? let alone a long distance affair with someone in south america whom i've little chance of knowing about. I don't speak much spanish so spying is hard. I am willing (BUT SCARED) to do what it takes. Please help me out here. What do the experienced people on this board suggest??

What are you willing to do to stop your wife's adultery?

And, what are you unwilling to do to stop your wife's adultery?

Start here . <~~~ link
Begin at the beginning.


Order a copy of SAA Surviving an Affair (see bookstore link at top of this page). Start with carrot/stick until it arrives.

What would you do if you weren't afraid?
If you were not afraid, would you go to war against the adulterous affair?

yes i would battle. Just need a road map or plan of attack. That's all i'm asking. Don't want to play games here. I'm a good husband, good father, good friend, good man. Just want a chance at love and peace of mind. Depressed and sad right now. Energy is low. Starting on antidepressant meds. Will pray and meditate and read and read. thanks

Gary,

What Pep is trying to do, is get you to quit feeling sorry for yourself, stand up, and go learn a few things. A few days of reading here will help you develop a plan of attack on this affair.

The good news is that nothing is unusual in your situation, it is very common around here and it can be turned around. HOWEVER, it takes a strong commitment from the Bs because ending the affair is tough, recoverying the marriage is tougher. You have to make some decisions and so far it is not clear that you have. YOu say things, but what have you done?

I would also put down all of the rest of the books you are reading and stick with this site and Harley's books for awhile. It is not that they are bad, but Harley is one of the very few that has organized what needs to be done and how to do it. Start with that. You then see later that often the others are saying similar things but not as clearly or as well organized. You need a plan, and that starts with data, plans of action and how to evaluate what is going on.

Eventually, you may have to give her an ultimatum, but you want it to be when you have the best chance of being chosen. Right now, it is unlikely that is the case.

Hang in there, and really listen carefully to Pep. She is prodding you to think, evaluate, and then state what your goals are. So far you have ignored this. You need to pay attention.

God Bless,

JL

I understand, thanks for the heads up. will read and study and pray and pray. God Bless too!! p.s. i'm paying attention, but sometimes hard to see the forest thru the trees!

Actually it is hard to see the advice through the FOG. BS come here with fog of their own and it takes some good vets to clear it out for you.

READ READ READ. You will learn a lot on here. It will make it easier to grasp what the vets are telling you. A's follow a script and the vets have seen this happen over and over again.

There is nothing more frustrating than someone who just expects the answers to plop in their lap without doing any work. This is a long hard journey and you have to pull your own weight. So while you are waiting for more awesome advice, read and understand. Then when you think you have read enough, READ SOME MORE.

Go to other people's threads and find sitch's that are close to yours and see what the vets said to them. Use what is relevant to your sitch. This will keep you busy while you are waiting for people to respond. I have been on here for almost 3 months and I still have things to read.

How does she contact OM? Block all access to OM. He's thousands of miles away. Don't let her go back home without you.

i'm reading....really. thanks to all!!!keep it coming

You must gather intel.


LINK to another thread about "spying"


link to The Art of War


link to misapplication of Plan A


link to "It's the Fear"

Keep reading.
Order the book SAA.

Keep posting.

hi, hard to gather intel as HE is in south america. She only uses her cell.

Who pays the bill?

Part of Plan A is exposing the adultery to people who matter.
What exposure has taken place?
Does WW attend church?
Is she a catholic?

Regarding your DS18.
If your family breaks apart due to WW's adultery - what lessons will DS18 learn from YOU ?
link to Harley's thoughts on this matter

Do i stay in plan A trying to expose this affair. Or do i get strength and tell her to leave!! There are not too many people who matter to her to expose to. The guy is in another continent without any means according to a mutual friend. He has no visa and can't come here. thankyou

Gary -

Glad you are still hanging in here with us. Please do more reading here. I think Pep was referring to the links she posted about intel.

Everything is in your favor. Most men here are dealing with an OM who is living close. So you have the satisfaction of knowing that the physical part of the affair is not ongoing.

You stay in Plan A for now. By the way, have you read about it? I'm not understanding what you mean by getting the strength to tell her to leave, because that is not the MB plan.

You need to be figuring out what needs the OM is meeting and try to meet those needs. In the meantime, don't facilitate their contact. Cut off the phone, cancel the ability to text, cancel the internet, if that is how she is staying in contact.

She may still get a pre-paid phone card, but at least then it won't be in your face.

believer, plan b is ceasing contact. wouldn't that mean asking her to leave?

Back tonite...been reading alot...including Love Must be Tough by Dobson.. Please guide me some more. I thing i'm starting to get it a bit. Very tired and worn down right now. Thanks

i guess weekends are slow...will check in later. thanks all

I think you should draft a planB letter, get an intermediary, and do planB. Thats what I think... But I think you should wait for more experienced posters to give you feedback about all this BEFORE you do it.

Gary, it is the weekend, and it slows down measurably. It's also the Sunday of the NFL championship games, so that's probably got people distracted, too.

From what I've read, you should be focusing on Plan A. You do understand the Carrot & Stick parts of Plan A, don't you?

In brief, the Carrot part has you being the perfect husband you were when your wife married you. It requires you to be 100% "Giver" to her emotional needs and 0% "Taker." This is very rough on your part, so Plan A is by necessity, time limited.

The Stick part is where you snoop, gather evidence and expose the affair to everyone who might have influence over your wife. This includes parents, siblings, relatives, co-workers, priests, etc. Exposure is best done in "nuclear" fashion. In other words, all at once. The reduces or eliminates the chance of your wife spinning the exposure by getting to the exposure targets first, claiming you've lost your mind, are angry, etc.

The purpose of Plan A is twofold. It is designed to put as much pressure as possible on the affair, taking it out of the realm of fantasy and bringing it into the light of truth. Affairs thrive in secrecy, so exposure is a MUST.

The second part is to get you to be the loving husband you were when the two of you got married. When your wife sees this, it puts additional stress on the affair because she now gets confused over who the man is that she wants to be with.

However, most affairs don't die because of Plan A, so then Plan B goes into effect. Plan B is SEPARATION and NO CONTACT. If Plan A is done well, this causes more stress on the affair because now the needs you were meeting in Plan A are not being fulfilled, and the OM must now meet ALL of her needs. That's usually not possible, which also serves to help kill the affair.

Plan B is started by your wife moving out and you handing her a letter that specifies the conditions for her to return to the marriage. First among these is PERMANENT NO CONTACT with the OM.

This is necessarily brief. The link I gave you should get you started. And by the time you've gotten the hang of Plan A, the veterans here will have returned and will be glad to assist you the best they can.

Thanks for this...i'll get to it.

Good morning FRIENDS!

Hi gary44,

I'm sorry you find yourself here. I am relatively new at this but have been learning a lot about MB during the last few months. Pay attention to the advice from the vets around here.

Make it difficult for her to continue the A. Do you have the email or number of OM? Is he married? If yes, expose to the wife/relatives. You can try to hire a PI in his country to get you more information. I am sure you can find somebody over there to do investigation work real cheap. You may want to start by googling for detectives in his country.

If you need help with translation you can use online tools to translate written text. Record conversations using a VAR or flexispy in her cellphone and get somebody to translate them for you. I am a spanish speaker so I may be able to help translating text if you post it in here.

--ElCamino72

thanks camino...i know this OM is single and without means. No visa , so he can't come here. He's probably a golddigger trying to get here thru my wife. There are not many people here to expose to And i can't count on their help. My wife continues to be very nice to me and we do ALOT together. I believe here you call it cake eating. And I feel so foolish for enabling it.

There has been a recurring theme in some people's sitch that I believe may help you. No matter how ineffective you believe exposure may be, I have seen people say that that is something they regret not having done in time. My own exposure for my WH didn't have any effect except that everyone now knows that their "relationship" started as an UGLY DIRTY AFFAIR and not a beautiful love story. That pleases me. Just food for thought.

i've been reading alot. Some people say i should be Plan A. I really believe i meet almost all of my wife's EA s. She told a mutual close friend that i am an "angel". We Do cuddle in bed, but no sex for 2 months now(her choice). I feel she's infatuated with this guy who speaks her native spanish and is from and lives in the same area she's from. I think i am doing a good "carrot" part of plan a. The "stick" part is harder. At what point do i go to plan B??? I can't leave my home, i also work here. Do i ask her to leave?? Is this to wake her up and realize what she'll be without.? I think she needs to respect me. So many questions. AND ,like many here ,SCARED to make the wrong move and mess it up even more!!

No plan B yet. Plan B follows a stellar Plan A and it is only done when your reserves are low and you are about to lose your love for your W. Forget about Plan B for the moment.

Plan A is
Meeting ENs
Eliminating LBs
Expose

You keep making excuses for why you won�t expose. There aren�t many people, or whatever.

Expose to your son, to your wife�s parents and siblings.

She�ll be furious. She may threaten to leave or threaten divorce. She may say she was going to dump OM but now you�ve pushed her into his arms. Don�t listen to any of this nonsense. Her anger means the exposure has threatened the affair. The angrier she gets, the more you can cheer (inside, of course, it would be rude to cheer in her face while she�s pitching a fit).

Definitely do NOT ask her to leave or move out. You can do a more effective Plan A whilst under the same roof. If you move to Plan B that would be the time to ask her to move out. That is weeks away, if not months.

Pep is one of the best on these forums. She�s taken a lot of time to post links and ask direct questions, yet you�ve not replied hardly at all. When you have replied, it was vague.

Please go back through this thread and:
1) Read all the links folks took time to search for and post for you. Comment on them and ask questions if necessary
2) Respond to all the questions folks have asked you, especially Pepperband. Folks here don�t waste time asking idle questions. They have a purpose and you would do well to answer them so they can help you out.

Gary, I feel for you man. I'm pretty much in the same boat. My wife had told everyone I'm a great guy and has told me I deserve better, she doesn't deserve me, etc. I am as new to this as you are but please know you are not alone. Stay strong. The only lessons I have learned is that we have no control on other people, just ourselves. At the end of the day, we have to lay our heads on our pillows and live with what we have done that day.

Sorry, not making excuses. She has no parents, her sister and best friend know about the A. Her son (my stepson) is a teen and i don't feel comfortable placing that burden on him. She has her own cell phone with phone cards to call south america. I've read on plan A/B. BUT , DON'T I NEED TO GET HER TO RESPECT ME? How do i do that being Mr. Nice guy (whom i've been all along). Please Help me to understand.

Turtle...while i'm knew to this, i did read Dr. Harley. I am pretty sure that i've committed No lovebusters. Just the opposite. I've been kind, compassionate ,non demanding, non judgemental. I also feel that i'm doing a good plan A for some time now (many months).She doesn't seem to be responding. She has said we are like brother /sister, good friends. THIS is hard to swallow. How do i get friends Back to Husband/ Wife??

Good morning! A new day! Best wishes to all here!

Has anyone read "Love Has to Be Tough" by James Dobson?

I've done a lot of reading, others posts, and re-read my own thread. I'm in plan A right now. I am having difficulty getting anyone onboard regarding exposure. Any advice?? I feel alone on this!

Two things, Gary:

1) How clear are you on your exposure? If you appear uncertain, wishy-washy or conflicted, your exposure targets are less likely to take your side or even back you up. You have to be definite: "My wife is having an affair and I want it to end and save my marriage."

2) You never can tell who is going to be your ally or how. Those you think should be your strongest allies might do absolutely nothing (perhaps out of a misplaced sense of "not hurting" you) and some you think may be remotely affected might have the biggest guns. You have to have faith that exposure WILL affect the affair. There is a saying, "You can plan the event but you can't plan the outcome." Just EXPOSE and know that you have done your best.

Thanks FRED!!!

You can't do that until the affair has been broken up.

Exposure helps a lot, but you don't seem to want to expose.
Also cutting off any financing or support of the affair helps, if you can do that.
Make it hard for her to conduct the affair - i.e. if she is calling her from the cell while you're around, ask her not to.


What are your thoughts on the links Pepperband posted for you?

hi turtlehead, i Have exposed where i could. It seems SHE has exposed to her closest. Please remember, she's not from here and there are a limited number of people close to her with whom i can communicate. The links are very enlightening. I've read extensively and continue to do so. How long do i be the nice guy?

edit add: I should also add that although the OM is not physically present(he's in another country), it is still the same pain and betrayal to me.

"QUIET NITE" here on the board?

HI all...i'm still reading and lurking. Just been down and tired. A little bolstering needed.

You'll get more responses if you talk more about what you're doing. What's in your brain, your Plan A, how WW is responding, that sort of thing.

When you just say "Hi, I'm here, any advice?" there isn't a lot to go on.

Talk to us.

DITTO

will do thanks

i've been plan A, Not talking about relationship, just doing and acting "as if". Going to plan a get away soon. Am continuing to show the great guy i am.Hoping she'll come to her senses, or get tired of this long distance phone affair. She is of course nice, polite,even cuddles in bed some. We go to gym sometimes together. I Will keep the board advised of what is occuring for direction.

Way to go, Gary! Every opportunity you have to be with your wife and to work Plan A on her is a deposit in your "recovery bank."

You've got the odds going for you! Your wife gets to see how great a guy she married every day. OM is long-distance, and merely a disembodied voice.

Which isn't to say this is not emotionally tough on you. We get that.

So please, make sure you check in here as often as you can. We are the place you can vent steam, express doubt, come for hugs (alas, only virtually) and have an army of well-wishers and cheerleaders behind your computer screen.

Go get 'em, tiger!

Thanks Fred for some positivity!!! good nite, Gary in CT

I REALLY think I'm being a GOOD plan A guy. But.. i'm feeling really down and lonely. My wife and i are together, do things like go out, shop, enjoy our dog, movies. She's even talking about me accompanying her to a seminar next month and making it into a vacation. She even cuddles a bit like i said earlier and is a bit playful. BUT...there is no sex for 2 months now, and not much before that, and she Seems "distant". I'm not sure what i should be doing. I don't want to press her as in the past she reacts negatively to relationship talk and feels "smothered". Any advice from the board??

You're doing great, Gary! It's only been a week since you first posted here, and look how far you've come.

This is the place to vent your frustrations, and that's what you're doing -- keep it up!

Know that withdrawal from -ANY- addiction takes a while. Alcoholics admitted to inpatient programs often have to be medicated for -days- just to get them past the acute withdrawal stage. Dr. H. likens an affair to an addiction, so your wife is still in the early stages of withdrawal.

It's important that you support your marriage --and her withdrawal-- at this stage. Just keep piling on the Plan A and use this place to blow off steam. Done well, and NC in place, she'll start coming around (heck, you've already seen glimpses of improvement; don't stop now!).

You're putting a lot of effort into Recreational Companionship. Is that one of her top needs? Usually it is a man's top need but with women, not so much. Not saying it's not possible, but you need to think about this and put your efforts into meeting HER top needs. The point of Plan A is not to meet the needs you would like met, but to meet the needs SHE would like met, and in the way she prefers.

Sorry to say but you need to forget about sex for a while. This is usually a man's top need but usually falls lower on the scale for women. This is a generalization, of course, but on average it's how things fall out.

I'm concerned that you're doing things for her that you wish she'd do for you.

Women's top ENs are usually things like financial support, affection, conversation, domestic support, family commitment. So think about this and see if you'd be getting "more bang for buck" by putting your efforts into different ENs.

I can't remember... who did you expose the A to, and when? When was D-Day?

Thanks Fred. And Turtle; I Really believe i am meeting her emotional needs. Recreational IS a biggy for her. I'm there in every way. While i don't speak spanish very well, her english is great and we have great convos. She DID ,however,in the past indicate that sex was important. It is to me also! She USED to initiate and i was fine with that, thinking she'd never need to feel pressured and i was always ready, willing and able. BUT..in future conversations she told me that she didn't want to always be the initiator. SO..i started to be the initiator these past few years, BUT..she didn't respond so well to me. She said that she can't turn on like a switch. Then, in november, she told me she just DIDN'T FEEL IT with me. YOU CAN IMAGINE what that does to my confidence. SEX would give me hope, but I am afraid of the rejection and pressure she may feel. I hope i'm making sense here?

I can't remember... who did you expose the A to, and when? When was D-Day?

She, admitted her affair to her brother , sister ,aunt and friends. I told my brother ,sister and my close friends. Like i said before, the guy's in south america, in a small, poor community. Any contact with him (he is single) is probably impossible for me. D-day, (the time i found out about this) was thanksgiving. The exposure on her part i can't really say, i suppose it was gradual with her family and friends. I told my family and friends around late dec.

In my opinion you need to expose to her family and friends. For all you know she's said "gary44 and I are not getting along; he's controlling, abusive, distant, and uninvolved. I don't think he loves me any more. Fortunately I have a good friend who speaks my native language and he is helping me see things from a man's perspective. I'm so glad I have someone to talk to, I would be lost without that..."

Her friends and family need to hear from you that "WW and OM are having a long distance affair. I love my wife more than anything and I will do everything in my power to make this marriage stronger and better than it ever was before. Do you have any advice for me?"

You also need to tell your son.

What are you doing to make her affair difficult?
Who pays for the phone bills?
Does she talk to him via chat, email? Who pays for that? Do you have the ability to block email/chat in your home?

The thing is, the carrot part of Plan A is good, but right now she is cake-eating. You need some stick, too. I think the following was written by Pep:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

She uses her cell to communicate via phone cards. I have spoken to her sister and some friends of hers..they are upset at her behavior but seem to support her decisions. They've advised me to give her an ultimatum or leave. My family , of course, wants me to leave. Her son, 18, is having some emotional an behavioral problems affecting his schooling and I don't want to further his difficulties. How do i make this affair difficult?

So, how do I stop her from cake-eating? I know i'm doing the carrot well, and trying to do some stick. You know how much this hurts and drains. Seriously, how do i stop her from talking to this guy. Please! And during this carrot phase, do i pursue or back off (not cool off) ,so as not to "smother' her. thanks

gary, is this you?

wife just wants to be left alone

Who pays for the phone cards?
Is there any monthly charge for the cell phone? If so, who pays that?

Does she communicate with OM in chat or emails?
If so, who pays for the internet?
Do you have the ability to block IM and email in your home?
I swear... I thought I asked all this already. Talking to you is like pulling teeth. Toss us a bone, man.


Did you say "WW is in an affair with OM, blah, blah, blah"?
"Speaking to her sister and some friends" is not necessarily exposing.
What about her parents? Did you expose to them?

Why is that, do you think?

Be fun, happy, and upbeat. Don't be needy, whiny, or clingy.
Do interesting things. Invite her along and if she declines, oh well her choice. Mention what a great time you had and how much she would have enjoyed it. Give her a quick hug or touch or kiss in passing but don't linger.

her phone, her cards she buys for 2 dollars

gary, could you please answer my question?