Even after 3 years on this site reading and learning about adultery and how common it is, I can't help but be SHOCKED when I read stuff like this:

http://www.thespec.com/Entertainment/article/749959

A couple of particularly nauseating quotes:

Yeah, but it's no problem at all to hook up with a stranger you met online?

And what about this:
Not sure whether to puke or faint (or convulse) here so I'll let the reader make their own choice.

What has this world come to????

That made me physically nauseated.

God's Blessings,

Say

Spit nails? It makes me hurl......nails.

Me too

Larry

I'll be right back...

Trashy, trashy, trashy....

In other words, she is an unpaid STD ho who is giving it away for free over the internet. At least a prostitute is smart enough to get paid for putting out. This dim bulb is not even that smart; she puts out for free.

Tabby1,

Susan, now 27, says she loves her husband and does not plan to leave him. More than that, she�s convinced Ashley Madison has helped her marriage: she�s made many friends who understand her, both male and female, and she�s now had four very satisfying affairs.

Barf, reminds me of my brother in-law who my wife wants me to get along with, and didn't understand why I didn't want to do coffee with him.

BIL spent 100K or more of his working wifes money at bawdy houses, propositioned my wife who is his sister in-law and somehow convinced my SIL that she caught a STD from a bathtub at a hotel.

All the while his wife is in blissful ignorance of all this. While at the Starbucks he spoke blithely about how he understands Tigers attraction to a porn star.

Gamma

I had a funny thought sparked by the reference to Tiger. Can you just imagine "Susan's" reaction if her BH found out about her "4 satistying affairs"? Waaaaahh - want a tissue???

In a perverse way, I hope this article finds a wide audience. Then maybe some executive whose wife is a few years younger, working part-time at a fitness center, and suddenly VERY pleased with herself, is likely to start a little snooping.

At least, I can hope...

Martes

Me too, what a society we live in today........

Based solely on all the vomit, I decided I will not look at the link.

Me too, Pep - Last thing I need to do is ruin my good mood

I will however say:

Ugh....

This made me

That was my choice, too, that I wouldn't look. I just didn't express myself so ill-oquently.

SHOW OFF !

Ok, seriously??? I'm joining everyone else...

I could barely read past the first 3 paragraphs... Why oh why do people think this is ACCEPTABLE?!?!?!??!!??!!

Sorry, but seriously... gag me.

Ok folks,

Riddle me this. How is it showing power and strength to be a liar and a cheat? How is it empowering women to cheat? How is it empowering men to cheat? Why get married if one is going to cheat within a year or two? Why get married if one is uncertain they want to marry the other person?

I would really like folks opinions on this because as sickening as that article was, it clearly showing what many more people than I would have thought think about fidelity, marriage, and their own integrity.

JL

to play devils advocate (against Just Learning I know is stupid)

Perhaps they ment - it shows power and strength because they are bucking societies norms? I.E. = supposidly society says its wrong to cheat...but cheating is become more like...smoking pot...technically its not okay but you know lots of people who do it and you might try it givent he right circumstances...

liberal type womens libbers (of which I am not one) may say it is empowering to a women because its like...taking back control...so many years women were under mans thumb..now we have same jobs as them and we can cheat too!! (i am really stretching here to try and see through this persons cracked POV)...

Why get married? TAX BREAK!...The PARTY...The GIFTS...sounds good at the time? People spend more time preparing for the wedding then they do the resulting life AFTER the wedding...then when its all over and they are leaving the party hall they look at each other and go...now what?


There is so much "entitlement" running amock...things people said to me leading up to my ONS - you are "entitled to be happy" "You deserve to be happy". "You have to be happy to be a good mom for your kids" - if you feel good about yourself then you will be a better wife to your husband....even stupid stuff like...in a plane they tell you to put your mask on first before you put it on your kid...that means you gotta take care of yourself. So - that means a mom can spend money onhair and nails and clothes and flirt with other men and drink and party...to make herself feel good. Its all a bunch of BS...and i dont mean betrayed spouse. Pursuit of thats stuff leaves you more empty than when you began. Only God can fill the hole inyour life...

But that is an open admission that women are stupid and anything but "equal." If a woman is "under man's thumb" then she is just a dumb broad to begin with. And the notion that it is "empowering" to put out for free is borderline mentally retarded. There is nothing empowering about that. We are not talking about bright gals here.

I wish that someone could break into the Ashley Madison site and release all their real names to the public.

So sick of hearing about all this infidelity and entitlement everyday on the news.

Just saw on the news that Tiger Woods is golfing again. They said that Nike wanted to support him and put him in a commercial. I just wrote to Nike telling them I am going out this weekend to buy new sneakers (true) and I won't be buying Nikes because they are condoning infidelity.

Will it do any good? Probably not but they just lost a sale.

Not only is it not empowering, it is disgusting. I was always taught that is a w h o r e.

There is nothing empowering in being a degenerate. Losing the respect of decent people in society by behaving indecently diminishes one's power, not the other way around. People don't respect women who act like that.

In my career, women who are easy and skanky don't get promoted because they are viewed as persons of low character; or untrustworthy.

ITA Mel.

I remember my mom used to always tell me that men liked to "date" women that were "easy" but they didn't like to "marry" them and i so agree with her sentiments....

I don't think it's showing power or strength at all! Just the opposite. Cowardness and jerkishness, if I may make up a word. It interesting that a site like this would "empower" people to cheat. Obviously something is going on in their marriage or that they never forged a strong bond in the first place or something.

This is why I don't understand why some people get married. Especially so quickly in some cases. They totally forget to build the commitment that goes along with marriage. There is that physical attraction and.... nothing. And then they choose to marry...

I also think fidelity in a relationship has sadly gone with the wind. That's not to say it should not be valued (it really really should be!!!), but the fact is it isn't. Look at our media, look at our movies, our tv shows. It's sexy to be bed-jumping. It's sexy to cheat on someone. It's the ability to have scandal and still be popular in spite of it. "If they can do it, or portray it, why can't I?"

Marriage is nothing to some people. Not the full-fledged commitment it is supposed to be. The life-long commitment.

Hell, there are books out there called "The Starter Wife" and the like. Just the title of that made me want to

/rant

Apparently, we're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.

Check this out. To wit:

Sites linked in the article (for those who don't want to click to the article:



http://www.healthymarriageinfo.org/research_stats/index.cfm

http://www.divorcereform.org/mel/raffairstats.html

http://www.womansavers.com/infidelity-statistics.asp

http://www.infidelitystatistics.com/

http://www.infidelity-cheaters.com/

http://www.lovegevity.com/marriage/collectiveguidance/need_to_know.html

http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html

sigh - as my BH often points out...they are worse then who-oars...because they do it for free. a who-oar gets paid for services provided...of course he is saying this in reference to me and thats a WHOLE different thread.

I agree, cheaters are nothing but cowards and jerks. Sheesh, I've had plenty of opportunities where I could have gone "that" direction but, no way, that is not something I would ever do. Heck, just the idea of even giving something like that "a whirl" repulses me. Nope, when I said my wedding vows (ie: "promises" of) I actually meant them (for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health...etc). Why vow a lifetime of love to someone if you're just going to end up hurting them anyway? Sure, no one can predict the future, but all of us CAN control what we do when we get there and, if we choose to cheat...well, that's just being weak and cowardly, IMO.

Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather remain strong. :-)

I tend to agree with this. I have alot more respect for prostitutes because, at least, she is getting paid for her services.

I can't even stand to watch cheaters any more. Although I wish I could have used their services. I have seen people with so called opened marraiges. They never last either. I think what most of us want is a faithful partner, someone to trust, companionship, someone to grow old with, and most of all someone to love and get that love back knowing that your the only one that fills a space in their heart that no one else can take away. There may be more but that's my 2 cents.

I think this article is written because they are playing to reader demographics as opposed to really revealing a fundamental shift in attitudes.

Articles like this get written so that all the readers that have already had affairs can feel better about themselves. I think the people that they quote in these things are engaged in an attempt at "post-purchase rationalization".

Additionally, they quote the rise in participation as due to a change in attitudes, which most likely is not the case. It's a change in awareness. i.e. more people participating in this is not a sign of more people thinking this way, it's a sign that the people who always thought this way are more aware of the service. It's an advertising campaign, so of course they only talk to the people who think it's a great idea.

I agree, it's a stupid article, but I don't think it means the world is changing. Just marketing departments trying to make money by reaching their target audience.

the world is changing..hell...handbasket...

The things my kids are exposed to on TV as "okay" on KIDS channels...compared to what I saw is proof.

Anyone ever read the lyrics to barbie girl...really read them...if you have you wont let your daughter listen to the song...ever.

In one night allow cheating was treated as okay on the simpson, family guy, american dad, the cleveland show...one right after the other...

its at the point we cant watch TV. every channel glorifies it.

Las Vegas - come here and do what you shouldnt cause we dont tell...its okay *its a whole add campaign. Trust me. what happens in vegas eats away at your soul.

The world is getting worse..

Hi SisterReed,

I did not look at the link but Ya know what, this stuff doesn't phase me anymore, and perhaps cause I am like ooooold now..*s*

But, anyway, this sort of stuff has been around now for generations. How about the Springer shows, or some of the movies, or hype about Kennedy affairs, or even here in Chicago the Cardinal way back in the 70s had a mistress.

Ideally, satan's work (notice the lower case 'S'..*s*. The media is a great tool for trying to ruffle the feathers of those who believe in good and those who practive it and have their own morals. I realize how my wife and I used to be concerned about the impact of tv and all other things, peer groups etc. on our kids. And that is a real concern. What we did is try to pay attention to what was impacting them and guide them, same as you are doing.

As far as adults are concerned, yea some of the weak will succomb to some of this crap, but I think those with morals and faith will have the strength from their own faith, and recognize this crap for what it really is.

For me, I have work , relationships, errands and other crap to do tomorrow and I could not care less who advertises this stuff. If we're so upset than we need to individually voice our opinion to whoever is sponsoring this, and just boycott if necessary.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi SisterReed and others here,

I just had a second thought. I did not mean to imply in my previous post that I don't care about this stuff, because I do and I am concerned about it.

However, what I was trying to convey is just my way of handling it.

In my own faith belief, I believe that God, for whatever reason, does allow a certain amount of evil in this world. Sometimes that lever of evil seems like a terrible high amount, if you watch some of the news, and how it's presented.

On he other hand, even tho there is that evil in the world, it is God's job to take care of His flock, and not mine. My job is to care for my family and care for me, and that is tough enough most of the time. That theme of empowerment...which I heard from my wife for many years in the 70s and 80s, well, I don't agree with women being more empowered than men, animals, or the universe. I started my marriage simply expecting that she and I are equals and I have not strayed from that.

Anyway, this is a good string, I wanted to comment, and wish you all well.

Tom

probably because I am an FWW - I am more sensative...its like...

I became allergic to shellfish due to an over dose of iodine during a CT scan with resolution. It over loaded my system from to much exposure and i am hyper sensative to it.

Having allowed this life style to impact who I was and change it for a time..I think it makes my hypersensative. ITs like...i chocked on a piece of candy cane as a kid, ended up needing the hymlick and throwing up...now the thought of a candy cane makes me feel sick to the stomach and my throat tightens up...

I let this poisen impact my BH, my kids and myself once before...a reformed wayward is more zealous than a spouse who has never tasted the posin perhaps?

Interesting comments and I agree with most of them. SisterReed, your attempt to "support" was as you knew it would be... not compelling.

I agree that this generation did not invent sex, TV, or infidelity. What I see that bothers me more is people (yes women's movement among others) using external actions (right or wrong, in this case wrong) to validate something within them. What should be happening is the realization that they really did not need validating, but that requires introspection and core beliefs. Children since the 70's or 80's have not been exposed to religion in any depth and with the advent of instant electronic feedback are not really even introduced to the concept of introspection much less deep moral codes of conduct.

People used to cheat, but they did not turn around and say "yes but it is good for my marriage although I won't tell my spouse because I know it will hurt him/her and might end the marriage."

I watched a show on the US providing aids medications for people in Uganda on 60 minutes this weekend. It has been a very effective probgram and apparently the US is well thought of in Uganda because of it. However, one thing is occuring...The rate of new aids cases is going up because people no longer fear dying of aids.

I suspect the advent of birth control, day after pills, and better medicines have combined to provide people with a false sense that affairs and multiple partners is not going to hurt them morally, or physically. My father used to tell me that the two great motivators in life were "fear and greed". The "fear" part is diminished in our society and the "greed" part has increased. Morally, unless it is strong, the abstract concepts don't have much of an impact it appears and there are no social consequences these days.

I just find the attitude very worrisome.

JL

A women who used to be my friend was one of the people i exposed to at work. She was married women who i thought shared my values...

I had been up to that point surrounding myself with single women who supported the idea that I should make myself happy.

My spouse wasnt meeting my ENs so therefore i should get happy anyone I could.

I thought - married women, mother like me, she could keep me accountable while away from my BH at work.
I told her what happened. We had been friends for years.

Her response was - served your H right for not taking care of you...man i wish i was there...get out and about in vegas and kick up my heels. I just blinked at her - not knowing what to say.

Finally I said - i hurt my husband who I vowed to put before all others...i broke my vow - i hurt my children and terrified them because they thought their parents were divorcing...i was raped by a group of men because i was acting like a hooker in a hotel club in las vegas!!!! and you wish you could have been there!!!

I found out her marriage is in trouble...she is very angry at her husband and men in general. I tried to get her to read HNHR and LB...she wouldnt...says he is the one screwing it all up and should try to win her back. Tried to get her to watch love dare and fireproof...no sucess

Resentment, entitlement and anger - we wrap them around ourselves like shields...but when you drop them to the ground you find that what you have been blocking is love and happiness. I feel like I am surrounded by angry women.

Why are women so angry?

I used to be a happy women content with my marriage.

Until i began to think i wasnt good enough in the work place.
I wasnt busineslike enough
i wasnt "WOMEN" enough
i tried to act like the women round me
took on their behavior
..became angry
resnetful...i didnt even know I should resent somethings until they told me I should.

weak...ready to hope on board the "RIGHTS" - i have a right to be happy...i have a right to come home and do yoga. Cleaning house and cooking is so 1950s...your husband should Hire someone to do this.

The more i surrounded myself with the "modern" woman ...the more i hate my life and me...the more I tried to be someone I am not.

Why are women intodays society to brittle and angry?

Pep < - - - epitome of ill-egance.

SR, I was raised with this same stupid, corrupt philosophy and learned the hard way, like you, that chasing "happiness" is not the ticket to happiness.

Happiness is the result of being GOOD, not bad. <-----that simple but compelling truth eluded me well into my 30's.


They have brainwashed to believe they are poor, stupid hapless victims who have been "oppressed" by the man. I am womyn, hear me roar, blah, blah, blah.....

SR, not all womyn are like this. Our less bright sisters seem to carry that pernicious attitude. I make it a point to avoid those gals and surround myself with the brighter ones who don't buy into that tired, worn out, victim mentality.

Hi Just Learning,

You have offered some very good insight.

The "core values" yes I agree with you. Too many parents today don't seem to bother with instilling that. When our kids were in high school, I got involved in leading a teen group for two years to confirmation. In the second year, we had only 12 in the group to finish. The potential for the group was like 35, so down alot because people just didn't bother or care. I am not saying that organized religion is the only answer, but that kind of stat was discouraging.

On other hand, one of my main wishes is to see a public figure....politicain or athelete...who is caught with pants down ....either financial deception or other..just simply come out without their PR person involved, and simply admit right off the bat to their indiscretion. Wouldn't that be a relief! Unfortunately those fools do not realize that God, I do not belive, will accept a statement from a PR speicalist in defense at the final judgement.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

There is a quote from Robert E. Lee that I have always liked.



As a society, we have lost a lot of honor and we fail to instill it in our children. A few organizations do: religious come to mind, Scouting programs come to mind, and certainly the military. The issue I believe prevails is that people talk about honor, but they don't know what to honor, and certainly not how to act with honor.

None of this means people don't make mistakes or err in judgement, it means they face their mistakes and errors and do their best to make it right. That is the honorable thing to do. It is what one sees here quite often from both BS's and WS's as they start to see the possibility of recovery.

But one cannot honor what one doesn't value.

JL

I'm new to this format so some of the acronyms are foreign to me. I'm a white heterosexual male living in the states on the border to Canada. I don't buy this:

�Martial discord is very closely tied to economic issues,� Biderman says. �If you�re having challenges around your family finances, it�s really hard to all of a sudden turn on the intimacy dial and go upstairs and make passionate love to one another.�

While I'll agree that challenges around your family finances is and always will be an on going issue that doesn't mean that 99% of the population feel this will be solved or resolved with a romp with another person!

Today's "sexual" promiscuity is a DIRECT result of parenting or lack of. People who play sexual pinball, (Hi, you want to screw, BING, hi you want to screw, BING......until you get a yes)are lacking in the structure base of spirituality and responsibility that comes from parenting 101.

We now live in an era of "throw money at the problem" and that will fix it.

As a ex little league and hockey coach I could almost 100% pick out the parents who wouldn't make it based on how there children inter acted with others.

That's my 2 cents. Thanks

Kenmoore i so agree with you. Parenting 101 is definitely lacking in today's society IMHO. You have to be aware of what is out there yourself and even expose your children to it yourself so that you can discuss it with them BEFORE they get into a situation regarding sex or drugs or what a relationship is or anything.

My own children have been exposed to far more than i ever dreamed about when i was growing up simply because it is out there to be exposed to and i am not with them 24/7. However we talk to them about it, we discuss things, we tell them our opinion and then ask theirs, we spend time together, we eat dinner together. Heck we even dicussed this thread last night. There are so few of even my childrens friends whose parents do not do this that most of their friends talk to me as well.

I know people who go to church and participate in church activities who only do it for the "look" of it and do not spend any time with their kids otherwise.

ACK!! 27 posts I haven't read but I can't let this slip by:
I am the poster-child liberal type women's libber and I must say this is COMPLETELY WRONG!!!!! NONONONONONONONOOOOO it is NEVER OK to cheat and cheating has NOTHING to do with EQUALITY or human rights or anythign else!!!

Also to go back to JL's post - I honestly think people have NO idea what marriage is AT ALL!! Why bother getting married if you don't plan on staying faithful??? Heck, these women don't even appear to by trying!!!! It COMPLETELY boggles my mind. It's like buying an expensive car but not bothering to get your license because you take the bus to work. It simply doesn't make sense.

This is SO true!!! Especially in the business world - there is a fine line to walk but does it ever feel great when you do it!!!
They completely miss the point! Of course happiness can be found - but it doesn't come from a career or the mall or an affair or anywhere else. It comes from within - when you know your own principles, you stand by them and remain true to them in the worst circumstances - that's when you find happiness. And strenght. And honour. There's nothing like it. These "hear me roar" types simply don't get it.

Like Kenmoore, I'm calling BS on this:


DH and I have been starving college students since we got married. When I got a good job and we got a little bit of a better situation we were smart and had a kid (dur). We're not about to wind up on the street, but things are tight. He's a bit more of a spender, I'm a bit more of a saver.

All that should be makin' it hard to get it on and I can tell you that isn't the case .

Marital discord comes from not knowing how to solve problems (um, POJA anyone?). It comes from being in a state of Conflict or Withdrawal. Discord comes from looking at your spouse as an enemy - someone who has to lose so you can win. I can tell you DH and I have faced some pretty tough challenges. Facing them as a team is how to avoid discord, rather than as two combatants entering the ring.

Discord is not an excuse for adultery. NOTHING is an excuse for infidelity. Infidelity DESTROYS - it doesn't build (but I'm preachin' to the choir here).

I'm sure my mother in her 25 year affairage feels her adultery was a good choice. She got the family she always wanted (yeah right), at the expense of my childhood. I'm STILL dealing with the effects of what she did to my life.

And you know - she doesn't seem much happier now. Happiness is a CHOICE. I am responsible for my happiness. Outside factors cannot affect that. When I wake up in the morning I make the choice to feel happy. DH and I have conducted an informal study. On days we wake up stressed and in a bad mood - if we CHOSE to have a good day, we have a good day no matter what is thrown at us.

Well said, Vibrissa, I couldn't agree with you more.

Agree 200 % .. I am actually readying a book called "Happiness is a choice" about the dynamics of depression and how people can overcome it by choosing to. good book

I am pretty sure I had some PPD after the baby was born. I wasn't sad so much, I was angry - actually I think RAGE better describes it. I am coming out of it and things have been MUCH better - mostly through taking charge of my own happiness.

However, I don't want to give the impression that JUST chosing to overcome it on your own will help for ALL cases of depression. I do believe there are people/ situations that require outside HELP to overcome depression, be it therapy or medication or whatever. There is nothing wrong with that.

At my lowest I didn't want to take drugs but I looked into counselors for dealing with the PPD - and you know that was part of my choosing to be happy: recognizing I might need help. But in the end it was my responsibility to get that help and do what needed to be done.

Isn't that what we always say here: you can only fix yourself.

Folks,

I am really enjoying this conversation. It resonates with me on many levels. So while you are "riddling" for me could I ask you to "riddle" something else.

"Riddle" this: If you were running the world, how would you begin to fix the sense of "entitlement", the lack of "honor", the failure to understand commitment, and the general lack of honesty in our society?

NOt asking much here? However, I would also like to make this more complex. Like the show on 60 minutes where they discussed the very appreciated help to Uganda with regards to Aids/HIV via medicine, there is a complex and painful down side, more people are getting HIV/Aids because they fear it less. It is not a "death sentence". The issue is "unexpected consequences" that our fix to society might accomplish.

Sort of like as our longevity is increasing the cost of long term care and mecidal costs go up. The rate of Alzheimers increases and such. Not an intended consequence of better health and perhaps less smoking, but nevertheless a consequence.

Fire away.

JL

PS: Oh forgot to mention. I am asking this based on the clear data presented by the quotes in the article first mentioned on this thread that would indicate that what seems logical to us is not to someone else.

we have a three bedroom house.
my two eldest sons shared a room
my youngest had his own
he began to act teritorial and entitled...
"this is my room - get out...these are my toys"

I put him down stairs with his brothers...made them work together...fixed it real quick

My boss - EVP big company makes 700 ayear (without the big bonus)...also had three sons. He was having problems with them. I told him to take away everything that wasnt required by law...i.e. clothing for school, a bed...food...love...everything else is a priveledge and must be earned. His eldest son had the talent to go pro in baseball except for one problem...the coachtold him...he has enver had to work for anything before in his life...he doesnt know how. My boss gave his kids to much.

you dont get an allowance for cleaning your room and taking out the garbage. You live here you contribute to the household through labor. YOu want money = your job is school - i pay for grades...not chores. You want extra money = go mow grandpas yard.

Sense of entitlement can be nipped in childhood and would be gone if you run the town with this in mind "those who dont work...neither let them eat"


this difference between the poor man who steels to fed his family and the one who doesnt? the theif feels entitled. The anatomy of a criminal mind is a good book that describes this. The basic difference between a criminal and a non criminal is their perceived "Rights".

I have the right to feed my family so I will rob this merchant
I have the "right" to have nice things to...
I have the right to be happy so I can rape this women
I have the right to be happy so I cheat on my husband..

I persons perception of the rights they are entitled to is what causes the problem.

not sure if anyof this makes sense..

I am a non linear thinkier...who doesnt do speel check or re read what i type until its out there...