SR, I was raised with this same stupid, corrupt philosophy and learned the hard way, like you, that chasing "happiness" is not the ticket to happiness.

Happiness is the result of being GOOD, not bad. <-----that simple but compelling truth eluded me well into my 30's.


They have brainwashed to believe they are poor, stupid hapless victims who have been "oppressed" by the man. I am womyn, hear me roar, blah, blah, blah.....

SR, not all womyn are like this. Our less bright sisters seem to carry that pernicious attitude. I make it a point to avoid those gals and surround myself with the brighter ones who don't buy into that tired, worn out, victim mentality.

Hi Just Learning,

You have offered some very good insight.

The "core values" yes I agree with you. Too many parents today don't seem to bother with instilling that. When our kids were in high school, I got involved in leading a teen group for two years to confirmation. In the second year, we had only 12 in the group to finish. The potential for the group was like 35, so down alot because people just didn't bother or care. I am not saying that organized religion is the only answer, but that kind of stat was discouraging.

On other hand, one of my main wishes is to see a public figure....politicain or athelete...who is caught with pants down ....either financial deception or other..just simply come out without their PR person involved, and simply admit right off the bat to their indiscretion. Wouldn't that be a relief! Unfortunately those fools do not realize that God, I do not belive, will accept a statement from a PR speicalist in defense at the final judgement.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

There is a quote from Robert E. Lee that I have always liked.



As a society, we have lost a lot of honor and we fail to instill it in our children. A few organizations do: religious come to mind, Scouting programs come to mind, and certainly the military. The issue I believe prevails is that people talk about honor, but they don't know what to honor, and certainly not how to act with honor.

None of this means people don't make mistakes or err in judgement, it means they face their mistakes and errors and do their best to make it right. That is the honorable thing to do. It is what one sees here quite often from both BS's and WS's as they start to see the possibility of recovery.

But one cannot honor what one doesn't value.

JL

I'm new to this format so some of the acronyms are foreign to me. I'm a white heterosexual male living in the states on the border to Canada. I don't buy this:

�Martial discord is very closely tied to economic issues,� Biderman says. �If you�re having challenges around your family finances, it�s really hard to all of a sudden turn on the intimacy dial and go upstairs and make passionate love to one another.�

While I'll agree that challenges around your family finances is and always will be an on going issue that doesn't mean that 99% of the population feel this will be solved or resolved with a romp with another person!

Today's "sexual" promiscuity is a DIRECT result of parenting or lack of. People who play sexual pinball, (Hi, you want to screw, BING, hi you want to screw, BING......until you get a yes)are lacking in the structure base of spirituality and responsibility that comes from parenting 101.

We now live in an era of "throw money at the problem" and that will fix it.

As a ex little league and hockey coach I could almost 100% pick out the parents who wouldn't make it based on how there children inter acted with others.

That's my 2 cents. Thanks

Kenmoore i so agree with you. Parenting 101 is definitely lacking in today's society IMHO. You have to be aware of what is out there yourself and even expose your children to it yourself so that you can discuss it with them BEFORE they get into a situation regarding sex or drugs or what a relationship is or anything.

My own children have been exposed to far more than i ever dreamed about when i was growing up simply because it is out there to be exposed to and i am not with them 24/7. However we talk to them about it, we discuss things, we tell them our opinion and then ask theirs, we spend time together, we eat dinner together. Heck we even dicussed this thread last night. There are so few of even my childrens friends whose parents do not do this that most of their friends talk to me as well.

I know people who go to church and participate in church activities who only do it for the "look" of it and do not spend any time with their kids otherwise.

ACK!! 27 posts I haven't read but I can't let this slip by:
I am the poster-child liberal type women's libber and I must say this is COMPLETELY WRONG!!!!! NONONONONONONONOOOOO it is NEVER OK to cheat and cheating has NOTHING to do with EQUALITY or human rights or anythign else!!!

Also to go back to JL's post - I honestly think people have NO idea what marriage is AT ALL!! Why bother getting married if you don't plan on staying faithful??? Heck, these women don't even appear to by trying!!!! It COMPLETELY boggles my mind. It's like buying an expensive car but not bothering to get your license because you take the bus to work. It simply doesn't make sense.

This is SO true!!! Especially in the business world - there is a fine line to walk but does it ever feel great when you do it!!!
They completely miss the point! Of course happiness can be found - but it doesn't come from a career or the mall or an affair or anywhere else. It comes from within - when you know your own principles, you stand by them and remain true to them in the worst circumstances - that's when you find happiness. And strenght. And honour. There's nothing like it. These "hear me roar" types simply don't get it.

Like Kenmoore, I'm calling BS on this:


DH and I have been starving college students since we got married. When I got a good job and we got a little bit of a better situation we were smart and had a kid (dur). We're not about to wind up on the street, but things are tight. He's a bit more of a spender, I'm a bit more of a saver.

All that should be makin' it hard to get it on and I can tell you that isn't the case .

Marital discord comes from not knowing how to solve problems (um, POJA anyone?). It comes from being in a state of Conflict or Withdrawal. Discord comes from looking at your spouse as an enemy - someone who has to lose so you can win. I can tell you DH and I have faced some pretty tough challenges. Facing them as a team is how to avoid discord, rather than as two combatants entering the ring.

Discord is not an excuse for adultery. NOTHING is an excuse for infidelity. Infidelity DESTROYS - it doesn't build (but I'm preachin' to the choir here).

I'm sure my mother in her 25 year affairage feels her adultery was a good choice. She got the family she always wanted (yeah right), at the expense of my childhood. I'm STILL dealing with the effects of what she did to my life.

And you know - she doesn't seem much happier now. Happiness is a CHOICE. I am responsible for my happiness. Outside factors cannot affect that. When I wake up in the morning I make the choice to feel happy. DH and I have conducted an informal study. On days we wake up stressed and in a bad mood - if we CHOSE to have a good day, we have a good day no matter what is thrown at us.

Well said, Vibrissa, I couldn't agree with you more.

Agree 200 % .. I am actually readying a book called "Happiness is a choice" about the dynamics of depression and how people can overcome it by choosing to. good book

I am pretty sure I had some PPD after the baby was born. I wasn't sad so much, I was angry - actually I think RAGE better describes it. I am coming out of it and things have been MUCH better - mostly through taking charge of my own happiness.

However, I don't want to give the impression that JUST chosing to overcome it on your own will help for ALL cases of depression. I do believe there are people/ situations that require outside HELP to overcome depression, be it therapy or medication or whatever. There is nothing wrong with that.

At my lowest I didn't want to take drugs but I looked into counselors for dealing with the PPD - and you know that was part of my choosing to be happy: recognizing I might need help. But in the end it was my responsibility to get that help and do what needed to be done.

Isn't that what we always say here: you can only fix yourself.

Folks,

I am really enjoying this conversation. It resonates with me on many levels. So while you are "riddling" for me could I ask you to "riddle" something else.

"Riddle" this: If you were running the world, how would you begin to fix the sense of "entitlement", the lack of "honor", the failure to understand commitment, and the general lack of honesty in our society?

NOt asking much here? However, I would also like to make this more complex. Like the show on 60 minutes where they discussed the very appreciated help to Uganda with regards to Aids/HIV via medicine, there is a complex and painful down side, more people are getting HIV/Aids because they fear it less. It is not a "death sentence". The issue is "unexpected consequences" that our fix to society might accomplish.

Sort of like as our longevity is increasing the cost of long term care and mecidal costs go up. The rate of Alzheimers increases and such. Not an intended consequence of better health and perhaps less smoking, but nevertheless a consequence.

Fire away.

JL

PS: Oh forgot to mention. I am asking this based on the clear data presented by the quotes in the article first mentioned on this thread that would indicate that what seems logical to us is not to someone else.

we have a three bedroom house.
my two eldest sons shared a room
my youngest had his own
he began to act teritorial and entitled...
"this is my room - get out...these are my toys"

I put him down stairs with his brothers...made them work together...fixed it real quick

My boss - EVP big company makes 700 ayear (without the big bonus)...also had three sons. He was having problems with them. I told him to take away everything that wasnt required by law...i.e. clothing for school, a bed...food...love...everything else is a priveledge and must be earned. His eldest son had the talent to go pro in baseball except for one problem...the coachtold him...he has enver had to work for anything before in his life...he doesnt know how. My boss gave his kids to much.

you dont get an allowance for cleaning your room and taking out the garbage. You live here you contribute to the household through labor. YOu want money = your job is school - i pay for grades...not chores. You want extra money = go mow grandpas yard.

Sense of entitlement can be nipped in childhood and would be gone if you run the town with this in mind "those who dont work...neither let them eat"


this difference between the poor man who steels to fed his family and the one who doesnt? the theif feels entitled. The anatomy of a criminal mind is a good book that describes this. The basic difference between a criminal and a non criminal is their perceived "Rights".

I have the right to feed my family so I will rob this merchant
I have the "right" to have nice things to...
I have the right to be happy so I can rape this women
I have the right to be happy so I cheat on my husband..

I persons perception of the rights they are entitled to is what causes the problem.

not sure if anyof this makes sense..

I am a non linear thinkier...who doesnt do speel check or re read what i type until its out there...