I am new to this kind of thing. Let me tell you about my situation. My wife and I have been married for 13 almost 14yrs. We have two children from her previous marriage and one of our own. Their ages are 23, 18 and 12. I love them very much. During our marriage I had went out with friends and sometimes stayed out late 1:00pm. My wife did know where i was at most of the time. During this time we would fight about drinking and that I should be home more. I never cheated on her once. I realize now how much I hurt her. Well back in 2007 I had a DWI. Crushed me and her emotionally. Since then I had slowed my drinking way down. I would go out but only with her. I had tried to change my ways and tried to be a better Husband because I love my wife very much. Things weren't great at home but not terrible or so I thought. January of 2010 I found out my wife was having an affair for the last 6 months. She said she was unhappy and wanted to seperate. I panicked and thought we need to fix this. I wanted to see a marriage counselor and do some individual counseling.

I guess somehow I forced her into counseling and she never did give it a chance. She said she had givin up on us and she had no more to give. She did say she would have no contact with the OM. Now a year later when I thought some things had changed for the better I found out that she had contact with the OM via email. Only once that I could see. Some of the things I read that he sent her just killed me to read. Any how she says she is terribly unhappy and wants a seperation. She is very cold and distant when I try to talk to her. I gave her two chances to just say she wanted to go right to divorce but she said she didn't want that. She wants space to sort out her feelings and see if she wants to make a go of it. I said I would go along with the seperation if her intentions were to work on herself and eventually our marriage. I am doing this because I truly want her to be happy again. She cannot forgive me for the things in the past which imentioned above. I take full responsibility for her feeeling neglected and not loved by me. For the last 3 to 4 yrs I have tried to be a better husband but the wall is up and no love units can be deposited only withdrawn. I have read Her needs/his needs and how to survive an affair. I asked my wife to read them but after about 25 pages she did not like what she was reading. How do I show I am supportive on her behalf without looking to her like I want to throw it all away. I love my wife, children and my family life more than anything. I continue to work on myself. Is there any hope of winning her love back? How do I communicate with her now. It is still one month before she moves out of our house?? Thanks

You can start by doing what you can to break up her A. Read the notes about "Exposure" here.

BTW, "separation to sort out feelings" usually means "separation so I can continue my A without impediment".

Welcome. Sorry you had to find us, but you're in the right place for help. Plenty of us have been where you are.

Questions, please. We can help better if we know a little more:
How does she know OM? You say she was involved in an A with him from June of 2009 to about January of 2010? I know you found an email recently, but I suspect their A never stopped. They just hid it from you better.

Is OM married?

Where is she supposed to be moving in a month? And who's money is she using to finance that move?

You are keeping the 12 yo in his family home with you when she moves out, correct? Don't allow your child to go with her.

On January 7th 2010 I fell asleep with the young one. I woke up at 4:30am and she was not home. I finally got in touch with her at around 8am when she had to be at work. About a week later after our first counceling session she did not come home again. Well she finally did come home and She asked me to leave. I said no there is the door if you fel you must go. She did not leave. When I found out she had contacted the OM it was because I found her Ipod and her mail box was open. From what i read it sounds as tho he found her on yahoo and said how he missed her. She said it hurts when she thinks of him but it was a good memory.
She will be moving to an apt. close to our home. The 12yr old will stay equally with both of us. The 18yr old girl will stay with her also. I really do think she stopped contact with him and she agreed that no dating either in person, via email, text is allowed during the seperation. I have been trying to find out who the OM is exactly. I have an idea but I do not know how they know each other. Any advice?

I hear ya loud and clear. I'm not exactly sure who the OM is. I do believe that she is atleast trying to have no contact. From what I read on her I pod it was the OM that found her on yahoo and made contact. I know she is not glued to her phone as she was during the affair. I don't know what to do?

You are dreaming in technicolor. I suggest you wake up, and quickly.

Thanks Maninmotion! I did let her know that if i know of any contact it is a deal breaker. I can handle alot of things but cheat on me once shame on you, cheat on me twice and it's over!

Were either of you married when you met?

Have either of you been married before?

She was close to divorce from her 1st husband. They were married for maybe a year. I knew them both very well and had been friends with both for a long time. I have never been married before.

Why did they get a divorce?

How does she have an 18 yo and a 23 yo from a first marriage that last a year?

He was always a piece of crap. He never worked much, cheated on her more than a few times. It was her boy friend from highschool. Even the kids do not have much contact with him. He never paid child support and I never asked or expected him to. I married into the whole family and believe I have supported them well emotionally and physically. My wife and I both work and are successful at our jobs. We will be slpitting up our finances soon and she feels she can support herself without money from me. She knows that i will never let our kids go with out and that I want them to be in a decent place when they are with her. She makes it seem as she just wants time. I'm not sure how much she needs but I expect that in 3 months we should beable to discuss where we are at and if it is over six months we are probably heading for divorce.

The oldest was 5 and her youngest was 1 when we started dating. She had her oldest when they were not married. She married him when she was pregnant with the second

Sorry all, my lunch break is over and lots to do. I will check back later tonight. Thank you everyone!!

3 months will be plenty of time.......for your marriage to be OVER.

You say that you have read HNHN and SAA. When was the last time that you read them? Are you ready to implement what you have read?

So OM "found" your WW on yahoo, how did they meet initially?

Are you ready to go through some most difficult times? You don't NEED to do anything, but are you willing to enforce your boundaries. Do you really mean it when you say that you will not let your WW cheat on you twice, because I am sorry to tell you that she already is(as long as you thought that it was over the first time).

We need more information to be able to help you better.

But, she's moving out. What does that tell you?

Yep. Good question. You don't just 'find' someone on yahoo. He found someone he 'knew' on yahoo, maybe.

I suspect if you do some minor snooping you will find out OM's identity in short order. And I suspect he's married.

She said she was ready to leave even before the affair. Probably another lie. Well the sooner she moves out the better. I think there will be some hard questions for her tonight. Don't get me wrong-I can't change her but I can control how I act. Truth hurts but sometimes I guess you need to suck it up. You make a good point maritalbliss. Thanks

The internet is a good thing when it comes to snooping. I think I know his name and where he lives. Just need to confirm that. She won't tell me that.

It has been awhile. I need to get them back out and see where to start. How they met initially was at a bar out at the lake when she was out with her girl friends. I'll see what kind of strength I have!!

Ummmmm.......?

What does that mean??

Maybe I will wait until I see my IC in a couple of days before I do or say anything. I can't let it go on and I also know she will be at home-probably on the computer but I want to make sure I am handling this correctly as my goal is to eventually have my wife back and have her committed to a good marriage.

*****, sorry about the confusion in my last post, I had problems with my computer.

I see that you answered some of the questions that I was asking in my earlier post, while I was posting that one. Sorry about that.

You are going to need to calm down and make a PLAN. You shouldn't go around reacting to the things that are going on, now is the time to ACT.

First thing you are going to need to do is snoop and find out who this OM is. You also will need to find out what is going on with their affair.

Next, you are going to stop talking about separation. If your wife brings it up, you will tell her that you have decided that it isn't a good idea for your marriage and you won't be discussing it with her anymore. Of course, you can't MAKE her stay with you, but you can make sure that she doesn't get any help from you in destroying your marriage.

So breath, calm down and make a PLAN. Re-read SAA ASAP and get a plan in place on exposing this affair. Also, have you read the link on the carrot and stick of Plan A?

Welcome to Marriage Builders. You are in the right place. Many of us have saved our marriages using the concepts developed by Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. You might be able to save your marriage too if you have the ability to follow a plan. We have found that few counselors have the slightest idea how to save a marriage, though, and even less understanding of the dynamics of infidelity. They don't hold a candle to Dr Harley and often cause more harm than good.

The reason your wife wants to "separate" is so she can carry on her affair. She is in love with the OM and is hoping to replace you with him. We can help you turn this around and save your marriage if you kill the affair. Once the affair is killed, you will have a chance to save your marriage.

But first, you must quietly find out who the OM is. If you will find out who he is and his marital status and come back here, we can help you with next steps. Are you up for this?

One more question. Are you an alcoholic?

To answer your question. No I am not an alcoholic. Many on her side of the family are. To make things better I did tell her I would like to have a life with out alochol if that makes her feel better. I t really doesn't matter to me. For the last three years or so we would go out with our friends and have dinner and cocktails together. Somes times she would be the DD orther times I would be the DD. I spoke with her last night and asked her the name of the OM. She would not tell me. I told her I have an idea and will continue to investigat. She said the OM is not married-We'll see!

I talked to my wife last night. She will be moving out this weekend. She knows how I feel about it. We had talked to the two oldest children already. I was making supper at home last night and my wife comes home from work and immediately takes over. Ticked me off so I just left and went to the Gym. Came back a few hours later and found out my wife talked to our 12yr old. She told what she had told her and I think she did a good job. After we both talked with our daughter. During that my wife told her that we still love each other but are having problems and need to seperate to work them out. My Daughter aske d if we were getting D and my wife told her no.

I tried to get the OM'S name from her last night but she won't give it up. I said I will find out who it is. She also says he is not married- I'll find that out also. She will be moving out this weekend. I am going to start reading SAA tonight.

I would not allow your wife to lie to your children about the reasons she is leaving. She is leaving to pursue her affair with an OM and your daughters should be told this TODAY. By you. ALONE. Don't help your wife whitewash her crimes against your family. Giving your kids false explanations for the crisis in your family just teaches them dishonesty. Tell them all about your wife's affair and encourage them to ask her questions.

Find out WHO the OM is asap!

Additionally, I would not allow her to take any furniture, any children, and most especially any family money. Hide your money NOW before she plunders it. How will she be paying for her pad? Does she have a job?

Just want all to know. I did not get the OM's name from her but she did open up her email to me while I was with her and she shoed me her in box. I'm sure she was not expecting to do this as she was quite suprised when I pushed this issue. Some of the emails were nothing. but one was to one of her best friends that I know very well also. I-we opened it and basically My wife told her we are seperating and that she had an affair. That the affair was over and then talked about her guilt and how she needs space to breath. The reply back as something like "WOW" I can't hardly believe that. Stay strong and call me. The rest of the emails were just garbage. She did tell me that there will be NC with OM either via internet, text, phone or in person. I have told our close friends and the two oldest children about the affair!

That is a lie. She is moving out to be with him and he is probably married.


ALL of your children need to know the full truth. She should not be allowed to lie to your children. They have a right to know what she is doing to their family.

I would find out today if this guy is married. Either look up his marital status on intelius or facebook. Can you find him on facebook? I would call his house and disguise your # using *67 and see if a woman is on the answering machine.

If he has a facebook page, copy and paste all of his friends into a WORD doc right now for safekeeping.

you need to separate to work out your problems??? WW is flat out lying to your daughter. You have to set this straight. Your daughter is entitled to the truth as it impacts her life tremendously.

My daughter is 12 and is very upset that WW is leaving. I really do not want to drag her into this. My two oldest are very upset with her and WW is extremely pissed I told them. Wait till she finds out that her sisters and our close friend( the one we hang with) know about it also! Seperating with LC seems to be the best I can do for the moment only because of the kids. I told her that if she goes she will basically be on her own. No help from me.

All right I have searched her facebook and her friends looking for this Brad(OM). No name comes up in any of them. I have searched the White pages and come up with three possibles(looking at ages and location) We do not live in a big town so if she were to go out anywhere I would probably find out. I plan on doing some investigating to see if it is one of the three. If I find which one I will call the home and expose this to who ever I can. I do not know how to search her yahoo account. Do I just demand fron WW her account info!

Your wife is the one dragging your daughter into this. Kids are more intuitive than you think. Better to tell her so she can understand what she's feeling and focus properly, than not to tell her and leave her struggling.

She has been dragged into this already. And she has been LIED TO in order to whitewash your wife's wrongdoing. She is leaving to pursue an affair and has every right to know. It is not right to lie to her about the source of the breakup, kabaa. She should be told the truth.


So what if she is pissed? Everyone should be told about her affair. The more people who know the better. Everyone should be talking to her about her reckless behavior.


No, It is not the best you can do. It will make it harder to recover your marriage. The best you can do is this:

1. find out who the OM is

2. expose the affair to everyone

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting it out in the open will be ruinous. Helping her hide her secret from others is ENABLING.

Can you break into her yahoo account? [using lost password] IF not, can you get on the computer to install a keylogger?

I'll try the lost password. Not sure what a key logger is?

I don't believe the real reason she is leaving is because of the EA. We had problems before the EA and I thought I was addressing them or we were but we just grew further apart and stopped communicating. I know I was not meeting her emotional needs. We talked about it before. She also had said that she was done trying and was giving up. This was about three or four years ago. Thats when I started to try and change and she was the one pulling away. Maybe I'm in denial but I'm not going down with out a fight!!

No, she is leaving for the affair. Yes, there were problems BEFORE the affair, but she didn't leave over it, did she? She is leaving for her affair. I am not guessing, I am telling you this is the reason. She is leaving to pursue her affair.


A keylogger is a stealth program you can install on her computer that will record everything she does and send you a report. A good one is eblaster because it will email reports to another computer. It costs about $100 and is very easy to install. You can download it here: spectorsoft.com

You're absolutely correct. She is not leaving you because of an EA. She's leaving you because of a PA. She can't very well screw her boyfriend in front of you and your daughter, and she can't go to his house to do it because he's either married or living with his parents.

Hence the apartment. Yes, you are in denial. Please pull yourself out of that. You are wasting precious time.

This is a physical affair. She has been sleeping with him. And he is very likely married.

Thanks, I'l think I'll down load it. It is on a computer she will be taking with her.

Jeez, this is one foggy BS that we're dealing with here!

The WW is REFUSING to disclose the name of the OM to him, yet he believes what she has to say about the A? Amazing...

I am developing a battle plan. I still need to re-read the book SAA. In the present time I am going to do everything I can to stop the affair. Work with me here. I usually do not rush into anything with out first knowing the plan and what the outcome should be. Right now I'm not the one taking out of the love bank. Probably isn't much there anyways. But I want her out until she can -shall we say see the light! I am pretty drained, trying to be the best I can be and do what I can without cdreating permanent damage for myself and the kids. I need to do some homework and some sleuthing. Thanks

In the meantime, find out who this OM is. Have you looked at her cell phone bills? You CANNOT let up until you find out who it is. You really have to get pro-active here and make this happen.

What she will be seeing is not the light, but the OM.

Forcing her to move out is a BAD move, if you want to save your M. Not only will it be more difficult to spy on her activities, you are basically driving her into the OM's arms by pushing her away. And she will blame you for doing that!

Reading SAA is great, and I recommend it to any couple. It contains some info that will help you immediately by confirming what we're telling you. It also has a lot of info that you can't put to use right now. You, my friend, are in a triage situation. You are where direct force needs to be applied to the wound. We're telling you how to do that, consistent with SAA.

She isn't going to see the light while she's busy affairing. Please make use of the knowledge that is being given to you.

So I should tell her she is not leaving? She said I could put enough pressure on her to stay as I did last time. She said she resents me more than she did a year ago. I shot a text to her telling her we need to discuss things tonight. I plan on having her sit down with me and log on to her yahoo account and her phone to see who she is talking with. I'm sure she won't because I will catch her lying about the PA. I can probably make her stay (or maybe flee tonight)but what if she says no to the logging in and says she is leaving anyways. I am willing to do what needs to be done. If I understand right I may have to make a huge withdrawl from the love bank in order to make it better?? The knowledge everyone is giving me is great-doing it is another thing!!

Her cell phone is thru work. She has access at work that I cn not tap into. I can and will at home though!

You need to get the keylogger installed NOW. Before you talk to her again and risk her leaving with the computer before you can install the keylogger.

I will be installing that before she gets home!

I,m new to some of the acronyms PA was I thought Present Affair. I know better now!

********, you should understand that waywards all act the same. A wayward husband in Seattle says the exact same things as a wayward wife in Miami. Age, sex, ethnicity, cultural background, religion all do not matter. There is a very specific way to attack your problem and you are getting better advice here than you can get anywhere on the planet. You have a number of our veterans advising you, you are in the best of hands. The best chance of saving your M is gotten by doing exactly what they say.

So at all costs I should convince her to stay??

Not at all costs.
Do not sit and ask her to log in to her accounts. She won't do it and it won't do you any good (besides....your keylogger will tell you all anyway).
Instead, tell her that you love her and want to meet her needs and are sorry you were not meeting them and it left her vulnerable to an affair.
Plan A her. Be an attractive, understanding, amazingly emotionally deep man.
Yup.
Tell her you would like her to stay to work on the marriage. That you love living with her.
She might go after you say these things but she will have an open door to come back.
You plan A until you decide it is time to go to plan B and you write the most romantic love letter and go dark.
Then, she can not lay blame on you when she is with OM. She can not villify and devalue you any more than she has and will start to think little positive things about you.
When you find out stuff on a keylogger...you do not blow your cover. You collect knowledge and ride the waves of horror as you find things out and learn who she really is and who you really are.

I guess I am doing Plan A. I have said those almost exact words to her. I did let her know the door is open to come back. I will use the key logger which will let me see remotely what is going on. I am trying to show her that I am understanding and with all the stress I have been working out hard. Lost about 12 lbs. I'm only about 12lbs away from a goal weight that I have been trying for. I consider myself an easy going person but I also don't want to go down with out a fight. When I feel I've reached the end of Plan A, Plan B will start. Thanks for the words

This is very important. I had a keylogger on XH's laptop for 6-8 weeks. The last four he was out of the house...I confronted him about the affair but didn't let him know that I found out from a keylogger. Those last 4 weeks were brutal but that info gave me the knowledge and clarity I needed to make a decision about the rest of my life.

Knowledge is power.

No, don't do any of that. Stop acting on your own, please. Do what we told you. Say nothing, put the keylogger on her computer and FIND OUT WHO THE OM IS. Stop fighting and discussing and asking. FIND OUT WHO THE OM IS. Then come back here and we will give you next steps.

Well I installled eblaster yesterday. She was on the computer until 12:35am. Checked the report and emails IM's etc. Nothing of any concern. Maybe he was working or something but I will keep watching it. Eblaster is really cool. Download went great and it started working immediately. My kids were on it also and nothing bad there either. Go figure... Did not fight with my wife. I am working Plan A and got a start on reading SAA again. Taking it slow til all of the plan is in place.

Can you get to her cell phone bill? And were you able to glean her password for her yahoo email account?

I see some passwords which I believe are yahoo account. I'm pretty close I think to reading it right to get the password looking at key strokes. Still figuring the eblaster out. Her cell bill goes thru her work.

********, this report should allow you to scroll down to see exactly what she typed (it should also give you the option to 'jump' to it.) It shouldn't be difficult to see her password to yahoo. I'm not sure what you're looking at.

I wonder too. EBlaster would show you that she went to Yahoo, that she clicked on 'open mail' and then what she typed after that which would be her password.

I'll check it out here in a while. Thanks

Also --
You should consider putting a voice activated recorder in her car. Under the drivers seat. She very likely talks to OM on her way to or from work. Or possibly confides in a girlfriend.

There is a whole section here on Spying.

I've thought about that. Also putting my GPS in there so I can see where she goes!

In the reports I received from Eblaster she never went on yahoo mail last night. I'll be watching!

Can I change my user name? I think if my wife looks on here she can figure out who I am.

Changed my name on here. Sorry to confuse anyone. Just safer at this point. Thanks

Night 2 with eblaster. Nothing to speak of. Put GPS in car while I was out of town yesterday. Pulled it out last night and she never went anywhere she shouldn't have. Either she is very good or she may not be seeing or talking to OM. Still waiting for her to log on to yahoo mail so I can get the password.

Is it wrong to have S with WS the day before she is leaving the house. I am in Plan A and possibly have negotiated a NC rule. I want her to have good memories not bad ones. She is the one calling me on my cell now where I would always be the one calling her before, usually just for idle talk. She is not calling alot but more than she has in the last two weeks. She said that she loved me this morning???? If I could figure this crap out I would be rich!

Where is she going?

To an apartment about 1 1/2 miles from the house.

Am I wrong to think that maybe Plan A is having an effect? Maybe at least questioning herself? She seemed to enjoy our IM together. Nervous about going home but I'll just keep doing what I have been doing--All 4 steps. Everones help on this site is extremely helpful. Can't please everyone all the time but I can please some, some of the time!

Well she moved out this weekend. Get this no one really wanted to come and help her so I had to help with the heavy stuff. She asked me to come over to her new apt. in the morning to have coffee before my daughter and I had to leave for practice. Conversation was tense but not bad. Lots of tears by both of us when we said goodbye. Kids arn't saying much but we are keeping the communication open to them. Still nothing of concern as far as my reports on eblaster but I am exploring any opportunity to find out what is really going on.

fishing,

I am sorry that she has left but now is the time to take care of yourself, she has made her bed, let her lie in it......
You need to take care of the kids, I don't know if I would have helped her move from your lives together, but it shows what kind of man you are and it sounds like you are a compassionate guy but don't let her use you anymore........
While you are plan Aing from a distance don't foret to take care of yourself, make sure the kids are alright give them permission to ask questions if they have them. be honest with them........
Time will clear your head and see thing for what they are, give yourself that time.......
jessi

This is the key, Fishing! Can you hire a PI to watch her for a couple of days?

Thanks jessi, I am working on myself every day. The kids are my high priority. As for her using me I'll do my best to say no or atleast to excuse myself from whatever it is. I'll be nice but I plan on keeping myself busy. Everything seems to be about her and her feelings. What she forgets is that I have feelings also! Open and Honest is the best receipe.

If I do I will wait for a short while. She is busy getting her daily stuff set up to live alone. Once that is done is when I woill have a better chance of seeing what is really going on. Any idea on how much a PI costs??

Depends of course. Plan to spend several hundred. Get a referral from your attorney. I opened the phone book and hired someone who turned out to be WORTHLESS. I got ALL my intel on my own.

We'll see how it goes. I ended up with most everything so far. We will have to see how the budget turns out. Thanks SW

Might have had a break thru in finding out who the OM is. I think I know the name, address and where he works. That would have been how they met. I just now have to get proof. Not sure about his marital status but on facebook his picture is with another woman. I think I have actually met them before and they are friends with some of my friends. How the knot tightens... I won't reveal anything yet until I have some solid evidence.

good job keep snooping and don't reveal anything yet

I think I have the right name just the wrong address. I may have to ask a person who knows the OM but they are not good friends with the OM. I will wait to see what I can dig up myself. I saw my WW at the gym when i went there to work out. Waved at her but that was it. WW came to pick up my daughter last night and we just kept conversation light. No relationship talk. The way she acts now is like she is liking this seperation and she is in her own little world buying stuff for the apt. etc. Makes me want to go out and find a realationship just to let her hurt also. I'm not that kind of person so I won't be doing that. Two wrongs do not make it right.

Feeling a little down today. Will power is not as strong as I would hoped it would be today. I want to call my WW and ask her to come back home and work on our marriage, love and family. I know she would say no but I miss her and the kids very much. Day time isn't bad but the quite evenings are very lonely. I pray for God to give me the strength to appear, at least to her, that I am doing fine. I wish this was just a bad dream. I am starting to tell our friends that WW has moved out of our home. I also tell them about the past affair and that i believe it is still going on. I know I played a role in my W being unhappy but I did not make her a have an affair which is or can be the worst thing a spouse can do.

Wait a sec - she didn't take the kids with her when she left, did she?

I have the kids back this weekend. At least the youngest daughter and I will have her all week. As it is I have her every day after school as I am the one who is off work early enough to pick her up. For now it is suppose to be half the time with me and half the time with her.

So I'm assuming your just separated now...not divorced correct?

Correct. She has been out of the house for 5 days now. Had a pleasant conversation with her yesterday for about an hour when she picked up our D. My daughter and I were discussing this weekend and what we should do. We decided to have a good dinner and have a fire in the back yard. Because my W was there during this I asked if she cared to joing us. She quickly said yes and said she would bring something for dinner also. Not sure if I like this idea of having her come over. Sounds like having your cake and eating it! Maybe the weather will be bad and we cancel our plans. I do miss her and would like to spend time together but I do not know if it is to soon. Not sure if this is a date??????????

You are not in Plan B, you're in Plan A, correct? That's when you show her how pleasant it is to be around you. Sure - have her over. And make a really great meal. Make sure the house is tidy, and DD is around. No relationship talk. You want her to leave there with good memories of the evening.

Will do. I'm not going all out like romantic. Everything will be pleasant and fun (weather depending) otherwise I know good movie with popcorn is something she likes. Plan A is what I'm in afterall!

Well not much to report. I picked up my DD from practice and brought her home and cooked her dinner. My WW stopped to pick her up and because dinner was ready I asked her if she wanted join us. She stayed and actually had a second helping. Conversation was light and when they left not much was said. I thanked her for having dinner with us. She asked if I could give DD a ride to school on Friday. I said sure, and asked her about our neighbor girl because we always gave her a ride also. Upon discussion we decided that our DD will come and spend the night at my home tonight which is two days befor she was scheduled to come and stay with me. Makes me wonder what she is up to on Friday night???? I believe my other older DD will still be staying with her. My older DD keeps pretty good tabs on WW.

I think if I have a chance I am going to put the GPS in wifes car again.

Well my wife went to a party last night at one of her girlfriends house. She went with two other girl friends. The other two are my friends also. At least married to two of my friends and these were couples we would hang out with alot. I'm sure she was probably man bashing me telling them how bad the marriage was etc. I realize this could be, in her mind justifying her actions to have the affair which I have no proof but still believe they are in contact. She says she has no contact with OM... Anyways I don't believe she would talk to the girlfriends about the affair but they do know about it. Not sure how much support I have from them. Oh well if they think about it they know that I am a good man and a good husband who loves his W and wants to make the marriage work. Tomorrow she is coming for dinner at our house. I hope it goes well!

Just filled out the emotional needs questionaire. Hard to be totaly clear headed on some of my answers. I hope to ask her to fill hers out tonight. We have dinner tomorrow and may not discuss this as I just want tomorrow to be a good time with her. Time to do some more reading of HNHN and SAA tonight.

Well I know there are alot of ups and downs in Plan A. She just sends so many mixed signals. After this weekend I feel she isn't willing to give us a shot. She is very cold to me and feels like she is a million miles away. I've drawn my own line in the sand. I am going to give it 3 months and after that she needs to have an answer as to wether or not she wants to work on our marriage or not. Doesn't mean we need to be together in the same house but so we have the same goal. She has said some really bad things to me which my whole body wants to tell her to stay out of my life but my heart and mind tell me to stick in there and keep being a good father, person and husband. I have decided to not make any moves to see her and if she wants to talk or see me it will have to be her initiating it. I'm very confused, angry at what she has done to us and very hurt by the things she has said. Thanks all for letting me let off some steam. Not sure I could deal with this without all of you and by reading the other posts as well. Thanks

Having a time line will help you.

Looking at things in three months is better than trying to gage what is happening daily or weekly.

It's too much of a roller coaster in the short term.

I hope you hold up OK.

SS

I also want to remind you to have no expectations in Plan A. Work on yourself, on your self improvement. Act don't react.

Thanks SS and Smileygirl. I keep working on myself and to make myself a better person. I expect my mind will be a little clearer in 3 months. She does not want a timeline. I think I need one so I can put my energy into something positive. Too many years I've been putting my energy into something that i receive nothing back. At least that is how I feel today. Onward and Upward we go!

I've gotten alot stronger this last week. I think. While I'm in plan A I want to be firm with WW about her A. I want to tell her that she needs to come clean with the affair and who it was with. I think I know but do not have proof yet. I want to tell her I cannot move forward until all has been revealed and I can make sure it is over. I want to tell her that I am doing my 50% of work in this marriage and she needs to do her 50% in order to make it work. I want to tell her I am tired of the lying and the "I don't know" or "I'm not ready to discuss this yet" answers. Am I rushing this? Should I hold off? She has been out of the house in her apt. for close to two weeks. I have not spoken to her for a few days as I am tickerd off that she could do this to us, our marriage and our family. I want this marriage to work but I have not IMHO not done plan A long enough to think about going to Plan B. Should I give her more time to think about us and what she is giving up and the pain she is inflicting on the whole family. She has had a huge project at work this week and I know she hasn'rt had much time to herself to do much thinking. Any advice is great. I will read more of the SAA tonight to get my head straight. I want to act not react. Thanks all!

Any ideas or comments on my post above. Such as how to bring up the issues to talk about. Also I want to ask her if she has finnished the EN questionaire. I'm thinking if I ask her for it she will just put it off longer. Should I just wait and give her mine to look over maybe edging her along to do hers? Thanks

Ok I have found an email address. Does any one know how to find out who's email this is. If I find this out I will know who the OM is. Any help would be great! Thanks

Well, you should Google it first.

I guess you will find something useful from here also:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=71&page=1

Well I trird to talk with my WW via phone last night. Told her all my feelings(how much I love her, our marriage and family) my desire to work on our marriage etc. She said she quit loving me a few years ago. She said when I started trying to make it better she was already done with us. Says she needs to be her for awhile and figure out who she is. Our marriage cannot be worked on until she finds herself.I found out via snooping that she is making plans with another man OM#2 for this Sunday. I also found out that she had an experience withOM#1 on the 14th. She says she is not seeing anyone.

I have both OM#1 and OM#2 email addreses. I have OM#2 name but not sure where he lives.

My question is should I email them and tell them to back off or their world will be hell? Should I copy my WW on the emails? Should I wait and gather more info. I paid for a iinternet site to run email address to to try and find names and address. Not much luck so far. Any advice. I am so ticked off because of reading the emails. She does not know I have access to her email account. NEED ADVICE. Thank you everyone!

If she is meeting new men this quickly, she is probably not telling them she is married. I'd contact the other men, tell them firmly how you feel and let them know she is married. I would not copy WW on the emails. She will find out soon enough. Do not wait. Waiting only gives time for her bond with OM's to get stronger.

If you contact the OMs, she'll figure out you are reading her emails. Not sure if you want to do that right now.
Maybe others will give their input.

Yes she will know you are reading her e-mails. Is there some way you could independently confirm she is seeing other OM's? You could mention that when you contact them.

Know that I am new here. If someone with more experience provides different options. Please go with their advice.

I agree with Phrogdriver,
Right now figure out and what your wife is up to, the reason she is saying the marriage is over is because that is the only way she can justify the OM in her life, it's how you rid yourself of the responsibility of the marriage.........
I would just do Plan B, send her a letter stating that you are willing to work on the marriage but only if it's the two of you........
There can't be 3 or 4 people in a marriage.
Once she realizes that this is her life and what that really means you won't be able to sway her with eduction........Tell her you love her but you have to protect the love you have left for her.........Tell her it's to painful to watch or be a part of.........
Then go on a live a good life and better yourself, learn from this and pray she comes to her senses.........
You could expose her behavior to the people closest to her.......and let them help you try to knock some sense into her.............
But if she isn't willing, separate yourself for now.........let her life fall apart, let her find out how meaningless those other relationships will be........and how the grass isn't greener that it's just grass with it's own set of problems........
jessi

I guess Plan B is coming up faster than expected. After Easter dinner with her and the kids I felt things were going well. Really well, she commented on how next week she wanted to come and plant flowers in front of the house again. She said she had a great time and stayed for almost 8 hours with me. I know what I have to do and it is to get the strength to do it. I would never in a million years dreamed that my WW could do this to us. I am not going to say anything to OM #1 or #2 just yet. I need to find another to way to protray how I came accross this info. Wish me strength. She said we could talk again tonight. We will see how that goes. Thanks all!

Just make sure you expose the affairs before you go to plan B. Or better, follow real plan A (with stick of course) before you go to plan B.

I just need to find a way of showing I have proof with out giving up my secrets of finding all this out. Right now she has the best of both worlds. When I see her I am going to tell her and follow up with a letter that in order to save my marriage and love and respect for her I do not want contact with her unless it is to do with our children only. All the family gatherings that she thought we would attend together are not going to happen the way she thinks they will be. Once I have proof of the A's I will notify everyone. Alot of people know already that I know she has had an A and that I believe she still is-with one maybe more person's. I may have to start Plan B a little different that it says but the goal is to run a solid Plan B. I like the idea of Plan A but how do you do that when she is having multiple affairs. This is what I would prefer to do. Wish me strength and pray for me for to take the correct path. Thanks

You'll be in my prayers.
God bless you.

SS

I"ve decided I need to stay in Plan A. I still have alot of love for her and energy to keep trying to meet her EN's. I feel as I do not need to protect myself yet. Meeting her EN's is tough when she is not in the same house and I don't get to see her to much. This is okay right now because I have a hard time talking to her knowing that the A's are still going on along with the lies. I have not done a Good enough Plan A to go to Plan B. I think it would be ineffective at this point. I will not be a doormat for her. I still have feelings and morals that I need to keep to stay strong. I'll just try to keep working at it.

I know I can't succeed when the OM#1 and OM#2 are still in the picture but I can try to be the best I can be. She is moving in to a new Condo in a couple of weeks. I will not help her move in to there but I'll let her know I would help her move home. I know she will ask to use my truck and trailer-which I guess are hers also- but I don't want to let her use them. Can I say no? Well I'm pretty mixed up right now and who knows my feelings may change by tonight. One minute I am strong and optimistic the next not! What a rollercoaster!!

Well its been a few weeks since WW moved out. We have a school function for our DD this weekend (Saturday). I asked my WW if she wants to ride together and also asked her if she maybe wanted to go out on a date-no relationship talk- after the event. Dinner and a movie either at the theater or our (my) home as it is now. She said she is not sure if she is ready for that or not yet. She didn't say no.

Here is the other part. I believe she may have set up a date with OM#2 on that same evening. She doesn't know that I think that. Thats not necessarily the reason I asked her out. Anyways I mentioned then that Sunday we could BBQ and go for a bike ride with our DD. This is something she likes to do. She has not given me an answer yet and maybe she won't. When I got off the phone with her I could tell she was crying. Not my intention. IS this wrong what i did? I told her I would respect her decision. Was this too soon. Could I push her away further by asking? Any advice would be great. Thanks

Fishing - I'm not a vet, but it sounds like you handled this well. I'm assuming that you're working a Plan A at this point, even though she's moved out. If so, I see nothing wrong with what you did. I guess the tone would be most important, if it's non-chalant, it's okay. If you come off as begging, it's not.

My approach now is - "I'm doing X with DS at Y date/time. You are more than welcome to join us if you want." I make it sound like I don't care - and now, for the most part, I really don't! I'm building my life around DS and I. If it's appropriate, she can join us, if not I don't invite her.

Just be careful with the frequency - you might 'institutionalize' this arrangement. For example, I would not have the BBQ at a regular interval where DD expects it to happen. It would also start to feel 'normal' to your WW.

Thanks AndyM. That is how I'm going to play it and that is actually what I'm doing. Building my life around DD but I truly hope she decides to be apart of it. She still needs to do her part. Thanks hope things are as good to be expected for you. I appreciate your advice.

Well she turned me down on our (I guess date). She just told me today that she didn't want to have dinner with me tonight and no BBQ tomorrow. WW gave no reason-doesn't suprise me. I played it as no big deal. It rellay hurt when she said no.

I find it hard to stay positive when things like this happen. It just seems like she wants nothing to do with me.I know I sound sappy here but that is exactly how I am feeling. Time to feed DD and friend dinner. Thanks

Fishing - hang in there! You're in for a ride and you'll have good and bad days. Try to just accept it. The emotions will become less intense over time - that's what's happened to me. They still suck, but at least I know what to expect.

Thanks AndyM. Today is another day.

Get this! I sent my WW a text message letting her know I did something for her. It wasn't much of anything. I ended the text with ILY out of habbit. She replys back with Thank you, Luv U Too! Go figure- she's just playing me I think. Who knows!!

AndyM, you are right about the ride. Yesterday we met up at a sporting event for DD. We got along very well. Had her laughing a bit and overall it was good talking with her. Now today she is cold as ice. What goes through their mind? I was polite, upbeat, and did not pressure at all and no talking of relationship. It's like she flipped a switch. I have been keeping a close eye on WW and I believe she has not had contact with OM#1 PA for maybe two weeks. OM#2 EA- I suspect she has had contact electronically a couple of times last week. She never did go see him last weekend which I know WW had been meaning to do. Not sure what happened there! Thanks and hang in there also AndyM

I think this is typical WW behavior Fishing. Hot and Cold, waffling, one person one day, and another person the next. WW's are like a box of chocolate, you never know what your going to get.

Well my emotions are setteling down some. One thing I have found by my snooping is that I do not believe my WW has had physical contact with either OM#1 or OM#2. I also found out that she is not in an PA with OM#2. EA is where it is at and from what I can tell it is not to personal yet. Yet being the big word.

She is telling her BF's that she is not seeing anyone. That may be true but she is in contact with them. They all think I'm crazy. Some of what I have found out is that she still has some feelings for me. She is now on some meds to keep her calm I believe. She told her BF that I am really giving her an emotional rollercoaster??? What does that mean?? I think I have been nothing but honest/open and pretty easy going. I have stated what I want and how I feel and what it will take for us to be together again. I believe the ball is in her court!

Fishing - this sounds like a great Plan A opportunity for you. If she still have feelings for you, then be the best person you can be - especially in front of her.

Plan A .... buy WW's Mother some spectacular flowers.

Make that all the time Fishing! Be the best you can all the time! People talk - who knows it will probably get back to her too!

Spent alot of time with WW this weekend because of DD sporting event out of town. Things went pretty well. I paid for her lunch on Saturday and took her and DD out for Mothers Day breakfast.

After we both got back into town I went to her apt. I bought her flowers and a card for Mothers Day told her she is a good mother and that I love her. She hugged and kissed me and said she loved me too. When I was leavong I told her ILY again and maybe that was to much. It did feel good to tell her that and to hold her even if it brief. I'll wait and see how things roll out.

This weekend is a college grad party for my DSS. The party is at my house, My WW will be here along with her XH. This should be interesting, I,m sure she thinks that I and her XH will be talking bad about her together. This will not happen. At least from my side.

To all the mothers out there HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!!

Struggling today. After what i think was a pretty good weekend I want to sit down whith her and have a talk about us. I know this is to soon and I would just push her away. I'm not sure I can handle another almost two months of this. I made a personal decision that after three months I would ask her about us and if she wants to make a marriage with me. If she comes up with the I'm not sure I need more time answer I may have to go to Plan B. Not sure if this is what I want to do. Guess I'll decide then. Maybe I will have had a chance to deposit some in her LB.

Not sure how to deposit in the LB when she has her wall up. I think every once in a while some get thru. Not sure if it is enough or often enough?? Thanks

Some IC's may not be very good but atleast mine helps me stay strong and not be a door mat which is what I feel like sometimes. I have (in my mind) done mostly what my WW wanted. She would say differently.

I may have helped her move the first time but I will not help her move to her new Apt. She is on her own. I just can't do it nor should I. I told her my truck only moves things in one direction and that is to my home!

Good for you Fishing! I may need to see a IC myself. You know maybe some day we can look back on this and laugh at ourselves. But not right now.

I hope someday we can laugh about it!

Well I was snooping again and saw that WW had a dinner function with people from work. Apparently she had a guy put the moves on her and at first she was shocked. After some drinks she said she was kissing him but it did not go any further. She said this person is not her type and she really doesn't even like him. She also said she was thinking about taking it further with him. At the end of the email she said she just needs to put this behind her. She said this to OM#2 who she so far has not had #%%# with. But is planning on having a BBQ with him next week!! The stress kills a person.

I'm kinda getting the attitude of WTF! To heck with her

Sounds like he is exactly her type but don't want OM#2 to know she did anything.


Taking it further with this new guy? or OM#2?


I think thats the best attitude to have. If you don't care, it don't hurt.

Ever seen the movie Throw Mamma From The Train? I think we should start a club for BH's to TCOB. Dirty Deeds hehe.

Okay the WW emails me asking if she can use my truck and trailer so she can move into her new Apt. Technically she owns the truck and trailer also. I will not help her move unless it is to move home. Can I really just say no! Maybe she should call one of her OM's.

I am trying to figure out something to do that day that requires me using the truck.

Looking for some advice on what to tell her. I am in Plan A even if it isn't working well. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Just because she emailed doesn't mean that you have to jump back with a quick reply.

Ignore it for a day or two.

Be too busy to respond.

In the meantime come up with your reason. I think the wheel bearing on the trailer needs replacing....I already promised it to JoeShmoe that day....

Lexxxy, I wasn't planning on letting her know too quickly. I'll see WW on Friday and may have to answer it then. Should be able to come up with something.

I feel as though I should just tell her the truth about how I feel about it. She has done enough lying for both of us. Whatever I come up with it will have to be the truth. Thanks

Plan A has a carrot and a stick.

I think the "stick part" would include making and setting boundaries from helping her do anything destructive to you, your kids or your M.

>ahem<

"I will not enable you to further destroy this family. I do not agree with it, I will take part nor facilitate you doing so in any way. Can you use my truck? The answer is "no". Will I help you move? The answer, again, is "no."

Then stop talking about it at this point. Refuse to argue this situation, it is against your better judgemet -past the point of debate, and she will have to rent a truck to move. Poor, poor, WS.

Do not make this a legal (who owns what) at this point. This is a integrity/moral thing. She is not acting with morals twords your family.

I like that BCAT!! My thoughts exactly. Thanks

Can a person have the "heck with it attitude" and still Plan A. I am not wanting to see WW that much the last few days as I'm not very pleased with her... When I do see her I am pleasant and act upbeat but I am not making any attemps to see or contact her. She knows my number if she wants to talk about anything.

Yesterday when she stopped to pick up DD I kept her at the door. She seemed like she wanted to chat but I kept it short and had DD ready to go. This might have been wrong and maybe I missed a chance for deposits in LB but I'm getting tired of this crap. I know it's a marathon and I will find some more energy. Thanks

Well it's been a few days. Not much has changed. WW moved into her new Apt. Saturday. No help from me. She was supprised when I said my truck was not available for her to use. I said it would be if it was moving her stuff home. I did see her place the other day when she wasn't there. I was with my DD so she could pick up some stuff. I noticed that she had our wedding picture and another picture of us next to her bed. I don't know what to think about that. She has been very talkative the last few days. She can turn it on and off like a switch!

I find my self having the F it attidude more often. I still am very nice to her when I see her but I am also getting a little tired of this game. Plan A isn't as easy as one would think. There is a fine line between feeling like a door mat and trying to meet WW needs when she has this wall up. Maybe I am getting through once in a while but I don't know. She won't talk about us at all. Anyways I'm still fustrated and pray that each day is better. Thanks

Oh, I hear you, F.

There are sometimes that I have to walk away from a situation/ leave it alone so i DON'T DJ and LB with AO's.

You are only human, and I think you can cut yourself some slack on that thinking.

Hopefully, your LB is not depleated and you can bounce back in.

The LB is not depleted and that is what makes it tough. WW still finds a way to make a few deposits even if they are small. I'm not sure why I let that happen. I guess the heart sometimes believes what it wants!! Thanks BBC

Well I seen my WW at our DD music event. I saw that she had saved a seat for me next to her but I chose to sit somewhere else. Ran into her right after and I was kinda cold to her. Didn't say much but Hi and Bye to her. She seemed suprised and like she wanted to talk a bit more but I just wasn't up to it. If I felt she had something important to say I would have but what she did say to me seemed like lies anyways. I won't waste my time listening to garbage. Oh well onward and upward!

Slow, down there hoss.

Have you read the carrot and stick of plan a? Today, right now, you need to understand the differences of plan A and plan "FU".

you need boundaries, you need to stand up fro your M, without taking units from your WWs love bank. (while protecting your own love bank balance.)

Plan a when you are learning and gathering info.

Sound hard to do?
kinda is.

Just found out that my WW was suppose to be out of town for work. All a big lie. Sun and Monday with OM#2. I also just got a phone number for OM#2 which has now become a PA not just and EA. OM#1 seems to be out of the picture for now. I am going to call this person today and let OM#2 know what is up with WW and me. I have exposed this OM#2 already when it was an EA. I will not threaten him in a way that would get me in trouble but I am going to be very direct in what I tell him. Any suggestions? I am so hurt and angry I am shaking!! Thanks

Just spoke with WW. Asked her about her (out of town meetings)man how can they tell so many lies. She said she felt like I was drilling her-she asked if I wanted receipts? I said no but now I know where they met. I asked her if we could talk tonight, she said yes. Should I call the OM#2 when I am with her? Call him before? I am also going to call his mother seeing that is all the other info I have. I also have a list of 4 persons for a person he is seeing. How do I call to find out if it is the right one? Help please. I don't want to mess this up!. Thanks

Expose the PA , start with his mother. Then expose to your wifes side as well. She has Receipt I've seen this before from an OM elsewhere. Don't believe a word she says she and the OM will have already spoken and have a planned response.

Called an attorney today to set up an initial consultation about divorce. I just want to be prepared. I had asked WW several times if she wants one and the answer was either no or I don't know. WW ar liars on most everything. Haven't heard back from the attorneys office yet.

Hang in there Fishing. I heard the same things. WW's heads are so screwed up its unbelievable. She probably don't even want to think about it.

I've decided to wait a few days to contact OM. I see an attorney tomorrow morning. WW will not be seing OM for atleast a few days. If I was to do it right now WW will figure out where I am getting my information. I will also record the call and I will write down what I am going to say so I do not get off track. When I have said everything I will simply hang up. I will also have it written down on what I will say to his mother.

This is probably going to happen faster than I can write a good Plan B letter. I will follow plan B as best as I can. The kids are an issue as I know no one in town that would be an IM. I also take every chance I can to be with DD.

I am curious to see how WW will react when she gets a call from OM telling her I called! Bet she doesn't talk to me for at least a week. Ha! She will be very confused as now it is in th open again and she will probalbly wonder how to face the kids and our friends. She has caused me enough hurt so if she feels some herself so be it.

Any thoughts or suggestions??

Well not much has happened. Talked with an attorney and got some advice from him in case things go south on me. Talked a little with WW the other day. She says she would like to go out on a date-she said that would be nice??? I figured I would wait until the end of the week to ask her out. Might try golf and dinner.

Better get back to work.

Okay I have sometime. I am nervous about this date thing. Excited yes!. I can see she still is having email contact with OM#2 but they have made no plans to get together again so far. OM#1 has not been in the picture for sometime now. Last night I sent her a text told her good night and that i loved her. She replied back goodnight I love you too!

I get really confused by some of this. Could this be true?? What should I expect from our date?? I'm nervous about the future of our marriage and how to do this right. Many issues have not been addressed by her yet but need to. I guess I'll have to wing it and keep the date light and upbeet. I'll address the issues remaining with her at a seperate time.

Well here is the latest with WW. I asked her if she would like to go out on a date. She said yes, so this weekend I took her out golfing-just us two-. This went well, we kept the conversation lite and not about our relationship. She was fairly talkative. We seemed to have fun together. Afterwards I asked if she would like to go and have some dinner. She agreed but we did pick up our DD to come with us.

After dinner we went back to our house where she had her car parked. WW kissed DD gooodnight and I walked her out to her car. I said I had a good time and she said she did also. We gave each other a hug and I kissed her cheek and told her thanks for a nice evening and that I loved her. She replied back the same answer.

The next morning WW came over to the house to pick up a key for our storage unit so she could get some stuff. Brief meeting but went well. When she was getting ready to go I stopped her and said that we needed to talk about us someday soon but until then I said " life is okay with out you but it is better with you, I miss you and love you". She replied " I love you too", and then gave me a hug goodbye.

I believe I still want her back in my life-with some bounderies set up and precautions. Am I reading to much into this or does it seem as she had a moment out of the fog. I hate to get my hopes up. Thanks all!

Okay, this weekend WW had her date cancelled by POSOM-Good for him- so she came to our home for a end of the year party for our DD. We got along well, she gave me a hug and told me "today was a good day". Next day I brought DD and friends on the boat. WW came with for awhile. Again pretty good time. Sunday, called WW she was buying flowers to plant for our home and of course some for her place also. She stayed and we planted the flowers and again had a good time.

Not sure what to think? Is this good? Is this just an acting job for her? Sent her an email telling her that I had a good time this weekend and missed alot of the things we did together in the past. Told her I loved her and wanted to spend more time with her. She was accross the table on her computer when she got it and read it. No comment just a smile and said she received it. What could she be thinking? Am I pushing her to much?

I told myself I would give her three months to decide if she was willing to work on our marriage. I have just under a month to go? Any advice on how to handle or start that conversation? Thanks

Need some thoughts. My WW is still in contact via email with OM#2. Just idle chit chat. We spent alot of the weekend together and I asked if she would like to do something together this Friday and maybe golf this week. She said she had an open calendar and that we maybe could. Also for the holiday in July she said she would possibly hang out with me and the kids some of that time on the boat, parade etc..

I did see when she chats with OM#2 she never tells him of the things we (as a couple) do together. She also refers to me as her ex. I am in Plan A with her still. What am I suppose to think about all of this? Should I continue with Plan A even though there is the thought that she is just having her cake and eat it too. I do blieve I have been able to put some small deposits in the $LB, Any thoughts or suggestions. I still do L her and want this to work. Thanks

I need to take a couple days off from Plan A. WW doesn't or won't allow any deposits. It's like if she is having a good time with me she fights it. Kinda like if she enjoys herself than I win! This isn't a competition of who wins we both should be in a win/win thing.

She has done a few things in the last few days to really tick me off. She knows I am upset. Doesn't help that I told her she has a few bills to pay. 1/2 is hers anyways. I think I will just avoid her the rest of this week so I can charge myself back up.

I have a sneaking suspicion that she may be thinking about seeing OM this weekend. No proof, just a gut feeling.

Okay, I have been emailing WW and said we need to talk. I said it has been long enough since we seperated that she should know if she wants to work on the marriage. 2 1/2 months. I'm not forcing the issue of moving back home because there are alot of things each of us need to agree on first. Just want to know where she stands. I am not going to talk divorce but let her know what I want and that it is not all about her. I am a person also with wants and needs. I am going to confront her about her OM, her morals, and her lying. If she is pizzed off so be it. Depending on what happens the Plan B letter is in the works. I know how WW operates and I have a bad feeling she may jump to the D option. I don't know how someone after 14ys M and together 18 yrs. could just jump to that without first trying to make it work is beyond me. She is in a fog though. No agreement on divorce from me.

Fishing,

I am bumping for you, but What Plan are you in? I think you are tuned in to MB, so I am confused as to where you are. A or B?

I'm sure others will be along as I don't advise, but I have to say that your post is very confusing. Others may read the same?

S 88 I am in Plan A. Or doing my best. Some weeks are good and others really wear you down. She has the TDNT attitude. She says if it is meant to be then it will just happen. WW gives alot of mixed signals. I have been good about the plan A but at some point I need to know if she is even considering us. Maybe I am just getting fustrated!

I think you are in Plan Fishing.

hey fishing,

i just got caught up with your posts..you and me are in a simliar timeline...my wife is looking for a place and im plan A'ing her till she moves out...the only difference is that ive filed for legal separation...that was the only way i could get my wife out while shes in the affair (i ended up bugging her phone, till she got a new one)

but my patience ran out a month or so before. that said ive been super nice lateley and my wife is equally as confused and confusing...i dont know what mood ill get from one day to another.

i wish you the best man...i know the pain your feeling and how hard it is...sometimes its like throwing rocks at a battleship, but you gotta keep trying till your outta rocks...

Thanks elph. I wish you the best also. Pepper you are right. I try to do the right stuff and sometimes it gets a litle mixed up.

What do I make of this? Fathers Day WW and the kids make me a very nice meal. I received cards etc. My WW gave me a card saying how special I am and that i am a terrific dad. She signs it ILY. She does not stay and spend the day but when she leaves I tell her I miss her and that IL her. Her reply is ILY too. Sometimes in Plan A I guess I am hoping for something back from her which is probably wrong. I need to read SAA and HNHN again but she has the books. I need to ask her back for them. Anyways I like it that you call it as you see it. Thanks

It's been a week since I last posted. I spent a good weekend with my WW. No over nights just daytime stuff. She came over to our home on Saturday and actually cuddled with DD and took a nap for about an hour. When she woke up we some how ended up embracing each other for a time and just held each other close. After a kiss she started crying pretty hard. Said she wasn't sure if she could do this. She went to the bathroom and continued to cry for about 5 minutes.

Well when she came back in to the room we went out on the deck for another hour or more and had coffee. She had no reason to stay if she didn't want too. Next day we hung out together again for most of the day. When it was time to go she gave me a kiss on the lips. I told her that I L her and she said the same back. Don't know what to make of this. Maybe my heart just wants to believe things that may not be true.

The weekend did give me a boost and will keep going with Plan A. Maybe it is helping some.

don't get ahead of yourself, just enjoy the moments together just like you did when you first met.....no expectations.......

This will take some time to rebuild and feel safe for both of you.
when you say your goodbye's make sure it's nice so she will remember when she isn't with you, make her want to come back and feel that peacefulness and lovingness make her miss that.......
one step at a time, no matter how small

Thanks JT. One day, one hour at a time. Small steps. I fight myself because I want things to move faster and with all the help I receive on here from many wonderful caring people I think I can contol myself and stick to my Plan A and ride the roller coaster.

Well it's been a whilw since I posted. Nothing new to report. It's been three months since WW moved out. That was a timeline I had in my head to put some pressure on her to find out what she wants to do.

I sent her a love letter and titled it Hello or Good bye. I got a reply back after a few days. She says she doesn't know if it is good bye or hello. She doesn't want to do anything yet. I was honest and told her I don't know how much longer I can do this. That was the last we talked about any relationship. Oh well!

It may be a while until I post again unless something happens.

My hello or Good bye letter may just be my Plan B letter.

Couple of weeks have went by with very little contact with WW. I have had to have some contact because of the DD. It,s not Plan B but I am feeling angry towards her for the pain she has caused me and my family. She says she doesn't want to do anything right now and she kinda enjoys living on her own.

When we have been together she has enjoyed it alot I believe. It's after she notices that maybe she did enjoy herself she puts a wall up and it's like she back pedals and fights the feeling. Is this normal for the WW. I need to get my books back from her SAA and HNHN so I can work on the plan. It has gotten off track and I blame myself for that.

She says she loves me and has alwaysed loved me. She says if love is all it takes then marriage would be more simple. I agree with that remark. I finally told her the changes I have made in myself over the last few years. She says she has noticed but when I started trying to make the marriage better she gave up!! What the H is that all about. Now I am more of the person she hoped to be married too and now seems as she doesn't want that. I don't know and I am rambling here so I better find sometime and get my mind back. Thanks for listening!

Fishing - it sounds to me like you're trying to process the mixture of feelings - riding that 'coaster. Of course she enjoys being on her own, it's less responsibility and she can do whatever she wants without scrutiny. Then, she might feel guilty about abandoning you and DD, so she comes back and gets her 'fix' of family life. This sounds like a cycle to me - my WW would love that kind of cycle. That's her fondest dream. She's told me that I'm being unreasonable by denying my DS the benefit of all three of us going and doing things. However, when I ask her about 'us' trying to work on our M - which would also involve 'pretending' to be a family - she's unwilling to do that.

So, bottomline, your WW is a cake eater, just like mine and many others. This is all about her, her feelings, her desires, her fantasies and what she wants. Selfish WW! You and your DD are a distant second, she's showing you by her actions. She is confused, she may come around or she may not - she doesn't know that either.

The longer you stay in limbo, the tougher it will be on you - that's just MHO. Eventually you'll tire of the games, hanging on any glimmer of hope, etc. I've done that and probably still do that in my heart. However, in my head I'm trying to accept the reality that she's probably not coming back. So, I suggest you start preparing for plan B. You don't have to execute it, just prepare for it now. That way, when you get fed up, and you will, you can implement quickly.

Hang in there Fishing!

AndyM, you are so right about the cake eater. She does like to get her fix of the family life. I have been in Plan A and I think I have done a good job of it so far with a few exceptions. As each day goes I do lose hope that she will come around and in my mind I am starting to feel like that will not happen. During Plan A I have done some good things for myself. I know I should not be expecting any results from plan A but hey I hope I do.

I have followed your thread also and I am impressed at the wealth of knowledge and support you have given to those on here. Thanks again!

$ in the love Bank. My oldest DD had her BD on Sat. She asked if I would come to her party at WW place. Because DD asked I went. My WW was very nice all evening. SHe allowed some hugs and hand holding etc. I spent most of the day and evening with her and my DD had a great party with just the family. Sunday my youngest DD had a sporting event out of town and my WW wanted to ride with. Again we were together all day and most of the evening. We had dinner and just talked. When it was time to go she gave me a big hug and kiss and said she had a great time. She asked if I would come over again tonight.

I am going into this very slowly. Not sure what she is doing. She knows how I feel and knows that my patience is running low along with my love bank. I feel as though I was able to deposit a fair amount of units into her bank. I know it's a rollercoaster but it is on an upside for the moment. Wish me luck. Thanks

Hey elph, how's it going? How's the legal seperation? Has it dawned on her yet that you are serious about your marriage?

Well it was my wifes Birthday the other day. I put together a suprise party for her. It was just another couple and us. We had a nice dinner and then I brought her to her Apt. early. The next day Our family got together at our home and I cooked dinner. Turned out excellent. I think she enjoyed herself but it is hard to say.

Just when i think things may be turning out better for us she takes a step back and doesn't seem to want to talk or be together at all. Not sure what to do but to keep going and work on myself and hope she notices.

I think there is anger and guilt in her and I turn out to be the bad one in her mind that caused it all. Thats BS but to avoid love busters I haven't said anything about the way I'm feeling. So the rollercoaster goes but I am running out of patience. I asked her for the HNHN book back as she doesn't read it. I will read it again and again to keep my strength up.

Fishing,

Sounds like you arranged a very nice b-day celebration for your wife. You are being very patient and I hope you can continue to hang in there. You've made some big deposits in her love bank this past week. You're doing what you can. Stay strong.

well, it officially started today.

my wife has been texting me all morning. last night was her first night at her place.
shes texting me that she misses me. and i simply ask if shes still friends with the OM.
her response is that she still misses me.



as the days go by she,ll realize that im serious.
and as that happens shell get angry. probably lash out and do something stupid.

luckily i saw it coming and put in my plan B letter that i knkow shes going to get angry and she needs to remember that her "friendship" with the OM is whats doing this. that i will always care but "so long as hes in her life, i cannot be" we dont exsist in the same universe.

from what i understand he just keeps shooting himself in the foot.
this will probably be easy somedays and hard others. but i think theres a real opportunity for growth on both our parts. and i would hope she would take a few weeks to amonth to get through withdrawl and really look at herself and maybe grow up a little.

wither way, once hes truly out of the picture, im hoping she comes back...

I you refer to plan B (that has started) then there is something missing because there should be no communication between you and your wayward spouse. You should be unreachable to her not available for every time when she tries to ease her guilt by these lame SMS-s (and NOT end the affair).

Have you read this?

Well I think the pot is going to boil either tonight or tomorrow. Tomorrow is our anniversary. She said she doesn't want to get together because "it won't feel like a celebration". I'm sorry but to me this is a big day in our lives. I have always remembered our anniversary and we have always done something special. I just read the card she gave me last year. She talks about getting through our problems together and how we can be stronger than ever because we work together on our problems! She isn't doing crap. Just causing problems.

It may get a little ugly in the next couple of days as I think I am going to put some ultimatums out there. It's scary but at this point I don't think I have much to lose. We are living apart, she doesn't make any real gesters to work on our marriage or us. I am exhausted from all of this. Today -at this moment- I just feel I need some answers so I can move forward with my life and find a happier place in my emotions. Well I just needed to share. Not sure why but when I write it down I do feel better. I wish everyone luck with their marriages. It can be the greatest, best thing in your life and can also be the most painful!

Fishing, are you in Plan B? There should be no contact between the two of you. How is it that the two of you are discussing this?

Thanks, Plan B has never been started. At times I was just a failed attemp at Plan A and just because I was angry. Plan C doesn't work but our kids play a big role in no contact. We both participate in their lives equally. We both have always been there for them when we should be and I see that continuing. It will not be the same as it was-us sitting together etc. but we both will be attending the same functions.

Well I laid everything out for WW. What it will take for us to be together again-what I want and what my needs are. I asked her for her wants and EN's and let her know I need an answer soon as we have had enough time for us to think this thru. I told her I would give her sometime with out me in the picture to think about this. It has been 10 days with very, very little contact. If she comes back with "I don't know" again Plan B letter is written and will be sent.

After six months of seperation I am not ready to call it quits but I am ready to face the possibility it could be over-atleast for now.

How much time should I give her for an answer (with actions)?

Everyone on MB has been great. I'm not sure I would still be trying if it were not for the support from this group.

Fishing.

My opinion is that you haven't fully implemented MB.

What was your Plan A? If you have to "ask" her for her wants and EN's, then you must not know what they are. If you don't know what they are, how did you do a good job of demonstating your ability to meet her needs?

If you are laying out what you want and what your needs are -- then you're really clueless. She doesn't care. She has zero interest in taking care of you.

Giving her more time with you out of the picture is exactly what she wants. More time sitting on the fence.

Plan B is not about giving ultimatums and waiting for her to decide. She is not capable of making good decisions while her head is foggy with affairs.

Sounds like you've been giving her the fantasy. You're still around to take care of family obligations. But she gets to play on the side. Good deal for her. Why exactly would she want to "choose"?

Dear Fishing,

You seen to have done a good job by applying plan A and giving her an impression of the fabulous husband and family she could have is she gives up POSOM. You have made some grand deposits in her love bank, she is going to miss that once you are in Plan B.

As you have said your love for her is slowly being replaced with anger, which is understandable because of her selfish way of living. She wants the good things, but is not willing to do the work. You know in your heart it is time for Plan B.
Have you got the letter ready? Then, it is time to send it to her and to end all contact. Make sure you give of the picture of an independent man, enjoying his life.

You are worth more than this. Don't pick up her crumbs anymore. That is what her contactmaking with you is at the moment. Stay dark, don't answer her e-mail, don't let her provoke you. She is happy with the status quo, so be aware, that she will try to lure you back into playing family and/or being a nice friend to her, while she is playing single woman with no responsibilities at the same time. You deserve better. Do not settle for less. She is a siren and will be playing her song, to lure you out of plan B.

You can do it. Don't wait anymore. It is time.


God bless you

Happyheart

Thanks Happy Heart and Lexxxy, I have done as much work with MB as I can on my own. She has not done any even after I asked her to. She doesn't want to make any committment or decisions. Plan B it is and it starts today.

I feel as though I have done a good job of Plan A and she will miss that. She is a cake eater and that needs to stop.

Wish me luck and the strength to do this.

Well I have been doing a good Plan B. Not perfect as I have had to have some(very little) contact with her. I am meeting with her tonight as We need to talk about the house and other items we own and what to do.

I plan on it being a short meeting and I have sent her an agenda. She emailed back that she needed a little time to think about the agenda. I replied" you have had six months to think about all of this. We need to talk about these things tonight."

I figure nothing on her part has changed. No effort or willingness to work together or committment from her so it is time to get some issues worked out. This may get ugly when it comes to the house and other properties we own. Wish me luck! She knows exactly what it will take to work towards reconciliation.

How is any of this part of Plan B? NO CONTACT. That is the MAIN part of Plan B. If you were to reconcile, would you be okay with your WW have "some(very little)" contact with OM? I would hope not.

The little contact was over bills that she owes for. Not a pleasant subject for her. Mostly via email-straight and to the point.

Well today is the day that I was/am going to talk to WW about our house and properties and things we own. I want to get this split apart as I believed things were going south on us and I want to make sure that I don't get shafted. Or at least I thought they were going south.

I was snooping this morning and seen that WW and OM are calling it quits. It was my WW that told him she does not feel good inside about her "friends with benifits" and that she believes it's best if they do not remain friends anymore either. She says she misses the companionship and closness of a loving relationship. He replied back that he no longer wants the relationship either. Not sure if she is talking about us. I still think I need to push the issue of the property stuff. I know it sounds like preparing for divorce and it is. I am not giving up but need to prepare myself and my finances so I can continue to support my kids through school. It also should give her a wake up call that I am serious. I need to have this contact with her to settle these issues.

Some would say to use an attorney to do this but that costs money! Give me hell if you want for breaking Plan B but in order to secure my future I need to speak with her. All business tonight!

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Act as though you never recieved the snooping info.

Waywards break up all the time, its part of their drama and excitement.

Move forward with your actions as though you were not privvy to the communication between them and don't get your hopes up.

Don't lovebust if you meet or talk with her.

Plan B is for your sanity primarily. Every bit of contact or knowledge about her life is torture to YOU.

Thanks reading, I wouldn't reveal what I know about their break up. It would give away my snooping system. I will not love bust thats why I said "all business tonight". I am trying to keep my emotions in check. I do need to do this to help keep my sanity.

Guess what though.....in plan B.....you don't snoop.

You just release all control of the other and refocus to self.

To actions that protect your heart, your soul, your finances, your children, your future without them.

If they ever end the affair and come back to reconcile, you see where you are at and if you choose to bother to try to rebuild. Then, should you choose to try to rebuild with them, you snoop to verify.

Yeah, I snooped this morning because of the conversation we are going to have tonight. During my plan B I did not snoop as I just tried to live life myself and for my kids. By snooping this morning it was, in my mind, to verify that I was right in my thinking. I try to follow the book to the best that I can. I do make mistakes and try to learn from them. I appreciate your reply and yes you are correct. Thank You

Well I think I may be moving my post soon. Looking at divorce. How someone can change so much--I don't get it. Where did the values and morals go? I believe someday WW will regret her decisions and it is going to be too late.

As I snooped before our conversation about our assets, I found out she now broke up with POSOM #2 but now is planning on meeting POSOM #1 Who I thought was out of the picture. Enough is enough!! She is definitely not the person I used to know. She is addicted and not willing to even admit it when she has been exposed. She has her story and is sticking to it. How messed up in the head is she??
Well, better days ahead.

Just so everyone knows. I have asked WW to read the books by Doctor Harley. She has not. Why? Because what he tells us is the truth and she doesn't want to hear that. I have aske many times if she would be willing to see MB with me. As always she never gives an answer. I want all to know I believe in MB and it will work but in my case I can't make it work without some effort on WW's part.

I'm right there with you Fishing. My WSTBXW also wants to read the books and claims she has posted on this forum. I think she just wants to see what I have said about her. My threads are gone tho. I had her watch Dr. Harley's 30 minute video on Infidelity and says she agrees with him 100%. BUT she is not 'ready' to leave POSOM. By the time she is, I will be long gone. Enough is enough.

Only you know when you've had enough. I believe in MB as well and will use it if there is a future Mrs. LnT.

LNT, I'm glad you brought that up about using MB in future relationships. I'm right there with you. When I am ready to have another relationship you can bet I will use these MB practices.

Well I laid it all out with the Plan B letter on the 14th. I have had her try to communicate with me a couple of times but I have not responded back. We have been at some of the same meeting because of the kids but I have not said anything to her. I can feel her looking at me and she has said Hi and good bye. I just walked away.
Don't know if that was right or not but I am done talking. I told her in the Plan B letter what it will take for us to try again and until she is willing to do these steps there is nothing to talk about.

I do feel much better. Like a weight has been lifted. I tried to do everything correctly for a good plan A. I just exhausted myself. I do pray for her everyday to wake up from this fog but I really don't think it will happen. Wish me the strength to continue and not to love bust if I ever do talk to her again. Sad but getting better.

Hang in there! You will get stronger every day and protect your love for her while she plays stupid. She may or may not be back, but you will be ready for recovery if she does I completely ran myself to the ground in Plan A (waaay too long) Despite having a very willing husband, I am at times sabotaging recovery because I am simply wore out. Take care.

I find it extremely hard to stay dark in plan B. I am doing it as well as humanly possible. I have moments where I get weak and want to contact WW but I go on MB and read and get support from all of you.
I really don't think we will reconcile as I don't see any effort on WW's part. It is a rollercoaster. Just when you think you are strong something triggers the feelings that I am trying to get over. Today is one of those days but I will stay strong.

My dependant children are feeling the tension but I have explained the relationship the best I can to them. They know I love them and that this is not their fault or their job to help repair the relationship.

Your emotions are totally normal. No fun. Nope.

Talk about feeling helpless. I never want to have these feelings again. I know everyone says there are other fish in the sea but that seems unlikely at the moment.
I have not dated anyone while we are seperated because I am still married and because I don't want to ruin any possibilty of getting back together.
I just don't know how someone you know as well as your W can change so much with out seeing it coming. Unconditional love is wrong to have. Love comes with conditions and boundaries and needs to be discussed often.

Don't think about dating right now. You are in a rodeo and still on the bucking bronco.
If the bronco ever tames to the saddle......you have a great ride with it into the future.
If the bronco stays wild.........you release it (divorce) and then wander the world with your eyes looking out for a new filly to be yours. There are lots of fillies out there and out of every 100 of them, one would be a good choice for you (emotional needs meeter).
Don't look for a new one til you are done with this ride. It will distract you from growing as a person through this.

Okay?

reading, You are totally correct. I don't want another relationship right now. I do miss the dynamics of having a female friend to go and do things with. But ya, I need to finnish the rodeo first. Thanks

Just received an email from WW. Said she closed her facebook and yahoo email account because she was tired of me snooping around in it. I denied that I was. That was a good source of information. She also must have contacted POSOM or he contacted her and told her what I had said to him.
I shouldn't have replied back to her but I did. I said is it wrong that I am your H and this POSOM is a threat to our marriage and I told him to %$&!! off? How could this be wrong for a H to do that. It is wrong what you are doing.
I can tell she is totally ticked off. So be it I guess.
Now what to do????

Go for a run & blow off steam.
Get together with your buddies and play cards, or pool.
Keep busy.
Stay healthy.
Don't obsess and assume you need to be doing "something" every minute/hour/day/week.

Thanks Pepper, thats what I did and I am doing. Better days ahead:)

Well that Holiday is past. WW text me to see if I wanted to come for dinner. I said I would if it meant that she wanted to work on our marriage. Never had dinner with them. Last words I have had with her. The only words in weeks actually. Which is the way it is suppose to be. My oldest DSS wasn't even going to go to the dinner because he knew I wasn't going to be there. After my youngest DD bugged him enough he went but did not stay overnight with her. He said it just wasn't the same.

Well I dhould have all the dependants for the next big holiday!! I'm liking that. Thanks all, just an update. I come here for my strength!

Wow...Fishing, I am truly sorry you have been brought to this place. I've read nearly the entire thread from start to finish, and I personally am grateful for the many pearls of wisdom strewn throughout, as I am seeking to save my marriage after I behaved waywardly ...

Thanks to everyone for their input...I appreciate it too!

Fishing, I pray that you find true peace and happiness. I am slowly accepting how much true freedom costs...I felt for a number of years that I had an addiction I couldn't break, but now my spouse has called it quits, I am starting to see there is more power in the truth. So I am also starting to see what it is worth.

Well it has been a while since I posted. Not much happening. Still seperated and WW is seeing someone. WW has blocked me from her FB. We did meet yesterday to refinance the house. Whatever happens I needed to save some cash for now. WW showed up at the bank and signed the papers with me. WW sent me a text yesterday asking me to not tell her I still love her and miss her. I had a weak moment after our signing. She says it makes her uncomfortable and she doesn't want to talk to me when I say that. We have been seperated a year now. Very seldom do I talk to her and I haven't told her that I lover her and miss her for 4 or 5 months.

She say's she wants to keep the lines of communication open???? What ever that means. I am on this site to save my marriage but I have a feeling the big D is in the picture soon. I know that I have done everything I could. WW has lost her way and doesn't want to find her way back. I can't change her only myself!

I'll be back on in a while but for all who are suffering through a terrible situation I pray for you and wish you all the best. Thanks everyone for your wisdom and encouragement.

Have you called the coaching center?

No, I haven't done that. Did call in on the radio once. Read the books a few times. WW has never finnished reading them because she didn't like what it was telling her what she needed to do. WW just kinda lost it. She is trying to live her younger years that she said she missed out on because of having a child at 16. Well the time to do that is not when you are married and have kids at home still. I will give some thought about calling the coaching center. Thank You it's a good idea.

Good, please keep us updated. We have a few BH's, on the borads, in coaching with Steve Harley and are getting great advice.
When was your radio show? I'd love to go back and listen to what Dr. H told you.
What did he tell you?

It sounds like you are not plan A-ing or plan B-ing.

Think of picking one and giving it your all even if it doesn't work or work immediately.

Agree you don't want to be in Plan C.
Listen to what Dr. H says about Plan C
At 5:30 mark Plan A and B
Radio clip on Plan C

Hate to hear your still having to deal with this Fishing. I decided enough was enough last year and filed for D. Although I still hoped she would wake up and come home, she didn't and now its final.

Believe it or not, it was a burden lifted when it was final 3/16/12. She was no longer cheating on me and I no longer felt any obligation or resposibility towards her. It does still hurt, just not as much as it did before.

I know I tried the best I could to save our marriage. I never quit, but I will move on.

I wish the best for you, no matter which direction you go.