I've been reading all over this site for a while now, and I think I have a slightly better understanding of the recommended process for people in my position.

I'm married, one young child, and our marriage has been going downhill for years. I have been in a depression, and she has been on anti-depressants. I work all the time, she spends and plays lots of her favorite sport.

As a result, I am miserable, and she has lots of recreation and friends.

A guy in town started calling my house late, and I immediately realized he is sniffing around my wife. That woke me out of my coma. I have been exercising and trying to turn things around, and I've lost over 20 pounds.

She lies to me constantly about her contacts with this man. The more I have found out and told her I don't like it, the more friendly they've become. Now they are Facebook friends. And now he's divulging personal info to her.

I have opened her emails. I have a stack of 10 or so, a good sampling of more than 60. These 10 are the ones with the arranged dates at the coffee shops, the offer to go to his house to talk, the call to him to come meet them at a bar with her girlfriends, the appointments for sporting matches which she told me they did not play together, and his confession of his unfortunate past (very personal).

It's the map of an EA that's grown since January.

The problem is I snooped to get it. I opened her regular home email once, and left it open on purpose, just to provoke a fight. It was a BAD IDEA, but it worked. Now she double deletes everything, and uses my snooping as a weapon against me.

(The thing is, she did the same thing to me when she read my journal a year or two ago. That snooping was a major turning point for her, when she gave up on me, essentially, because she saw how unhappy I am in my career, which has not gone well, causing her to be ever-fearful of another financial disaster.)

I have confronted her on the extent of her relationship, but only on the things I learned through non-snooping -- the late night phone call I took, her phone call with her best friend that I overheard where she talked about her latest contact with the OG (after telling me she had no contact), how his name was on the Caller ID once and that I saw it and then it was deleted, that kind of thing.

But she has only reacted by retreating into lying about the things I could not immediately prove. She concedes nothing else. And her line is always how trivial and unimportant he is to her, and how they have no personal intimacy, there's no actual affair, that he's only a recreational acquaintance, and don't talk about personal stuff at all.

And I'm overreacting and smothering her with my inquisitiveness.

And how the last 5 years is the problem, not this friendship. Which is, in a sense, very true.

But I have the emails now, and have them printed out. They prove the lies that she has retreated into.

I have been moving mountains for a month to turn this crisis around. In that time, she has only contacted him more, and lied to me more. And gotten more defensive.

I think she's more comfortable having a sneaky relationship with him and keeping me around at the same time. She keeps asking for "space" and "time" to come around to working toward reconciling, but says that I am pushing too hard for these things, want things to change for the better too fast, and expecting too much.

My plan is to leave. I want her to know this is too painful for me to bear. I want her to know that I can't take any more lying.

But doing this means that I essentially admit that I fully snooped into her email. She will use this to return to her argument about how my inquisitiveness and demand for "instant reconciliation" is what's driving her to hide things, and causing her to not be more open to reconciling.

Is it a good idea to bring this situation to a head? I told her last night that I couldn't take another lie, and today there is already another one.

My plan is to give her the emails and tell her the lies are the reason I am leaving.

Please let me know if anyone thinks this is a good plan, or if there is a better one. This is my first experience with the threat of infidelity, and I am beyond overwhelmed.

ok, please calm down. This is a dreadful plan. What will happen is that your wife will move the OM into your home to take your place. The affair will grow to a new level. You will then be in a position of having to pay the mortgage on a house that is inhabited by your wife and her lover. It will be a night mare.

If you want to save your marriage, you need to be there. A separation only dramatically increases the risk of divorce.

I can give you a better plan if you want it.

Do you have evidence of an affair in the emails?

I would TODAY download and install a keylogger on her computer. Go to spectorsoft.com and download eblaster. You only have to access her computer once and it will email you daily reports.

Secondly, I would go put a GPS on her car. You can select some GPS devices over on the Operation Investigate forum.

And lastly, this fear you have about snooping is inappropriate. there is no right to privacy in marriage and you have a right to know each and every thing she does. So stop acting like you are doing something wrong. If she accuses you of snooping, you tell her that is your JOB as a husband. Be LOUD AND PROUD. IF she doens't like being caught, then she shouldn't do things she doesn't want to be caught doing.

Yes, please do.


I am sick of the snooping. I am sick of the cat and mouse, spy-versus-spy crap.

What I have is evidence that there has been no physical affair, but they are also proof that she has been lying to me about some very frequently and carefully discussed points.

Like meetings that she claimed never happened. Soliciting his phone calls. How she insists (up to and including TODAY) how his emails to her are stupid internet links, and nothing personal, when one of the most recent ones was him confessing a very personal unfortunate fact about himself. That revelation was the result of a discussion that she initiated, although she claims she doesn't do that either.

Lies, lies and more lies. All to minimize a relationship that is growing more close and personal virtually every day.

Oh you're in good hands with MelodyLane, she knows what she's doing...you're fortunate to have her help!

Good luck to you!

endofline, your lucky MelodyLane is like having your personal council for no cost and can guide you step by step. IF you want to save your M listen intently and follow ever direction to the letter. Even if it seems counterintuitive.
I am sorry you have to be here and you are dealing with a Emotional Affair. They suck!

Ok, I don't think you have the full story. And you need the full story in order to proceed and save your marriage. You can't do much if you only have half the facts. I would be sick of cat and mouse too, but the way to end that is to be a BETTER SNOOPER and get better intel. I don't think you are getting that with a few emails and are only finding circumstantial evidence that is driving you crazy.

DON'T ACCUSE WITH CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. It is a LOSING GAME, as you can see.

In fact, if she has any snap at all, she is deleting the serious ones and leaving the half [censored] ones for you to find in the hopes that she can indict you with "OMG, YOU ARE SNOOPING ON ME???" See, she knows that works with you becasue you have an inappropriate guilt about snooping on her. She knows she can manipulate you with that bullcrap.

Be a better snooper and get the goods. That way you AVOID this cat and mouse game of ASKING her if she did such and such. With better intel, you don't ASK, you tell her what you know.

So, the first leg of the plan is to quietly install a keylogger on her computer and put a GPS on her car.

After you get the FULL STORY, we can help you bust up the affair. You can do this when you have all the facts. Without the facts, all she has to do is dismiss you as a nut, which just causes you enormous frustration.

And do not even think of leaving your home. Fight your marriage in a strategic, effective way that will reap results, not frustration.

Be calm, cool and STRATEGIC. Quietly gather the evidence. Around your wife be as cool, attractive and pleasant as possible. Don't ask, don't accuse, don't blow up, don't lovebust.

BE STRATEGIC, rather than reactive.

Every time you react with your emotions, she wins. The OM wins. That is their plan. I am suggesting we now follow YOUR PLAN.

Can you do that?

It's continuing right now. Right now.

Last night we had a really guts-on-the-table discussion. There were LoveBusters all around, but it ended with her trying to convince me there was no one else in our marriage, etc. I was absolutely clear that I can't take the lying. I didn't threaten. I just said that I could not take it.

And this morning, we assured each other that there will be no more angry outbursts. And I mean that. This site has set me straight on how counter-productive that is. I get it now.

I left her the article on how "friends" are a threat. I asked her to read it, and she did.

She called me this afternoon, very loving tone, very conciliatory. We're both emotionally exhausted, and we talked for a few minutes about how the outbursts and recriminations are making things worse, even though it feels so urgent to defend yourself with them at the time.

She loved the LoveBank idea in the article, but said that the whole rest of the article did not describe her situation at all. There's nothing personal in her friendship, she said, just sports, just internet links, mostly ones he sends to whole groups of people.

But this morning, only a few hours before this phone call to me, she opened an email from him that he had sent her late last night, in which he confessed a very dark, personal episode in his life.

About an hour and a half before she called me, with her loving and concilatory tone, asking only for peace and gentleness in our house and marriage, she had sent him a reply to that email, saying how his confession was a lot to reveal to her, how she's been trying to call him several times today, but warning him that he should NOT CALL OUR HOUSE in the evenings because that's when her husband is at home (me), and ever since his late night phone call a month ago, he's not very popular with me.

Than we had our mini make-up phone call.

Then she sent me an email inviting me to join her in a sporting event, which is a major deal for me, since she's been so adamant about excluding me from that part of her life, since I'm so oppressive and making her claustrophobic. It was a nice thing to do, to invite me in for that.

A few minutes later, he replied that being unwelcome is how he likes it.

Then I found today's emails.

I just threw up my lunch.

I would also start making the effort to reverse the above, because it has caused enormous damage to your marriage. See a doctor and get on anti-deps and cut back on your work so you are with her every evening. Both of those things have to be changed if you want to turn this around.

Additionally, I would immediately cease all lovebusters. lovebusters Do you know what those are? Do you have the book Surviving an Affair and Lovebusters? Can you get them?

He lives on his phone. If he responded to her email, that means he got the message about her wanting to talk about his dark secret.

Just this morning, she called me to ask what had happened to one of cordless phone handsets. We have several, all on one line. One of them crapped out, months ago. She was looking for it because she wanted to make sure it wasn't tracking the last number dialed, Caller ID, etc.

They're probably talking right now, or already have.

On my house phone, because she knows I have access to her cell records.

On my HOUSE PHONE. About his dark past.

All while she's telling me how inconsequential he is, and their relationship is limited to stupid internet links.

I don't need to snoop any more. This is enough for me. This is the last lie I can take.

I'm not sure what you're saying, here, endoftheline. The fact that she's moved her EA to your house phone is a deal-breaker??

I've got to go back to re-read your thread. I'm not sure how much snooping you've done. Did you put a keylogger on her computer?

How do you know what they're talking about?

It sounds like she's gaslighting you. All that sweetness is designed to distract you and make you think everything is peachy-keen. While she continues carrying on with OM. Not good.

And when/if you make her stop with OM, you'll see her temperament change quickly.

I'll tell you what: if I had to tell someone not to call me at a certain time because my husband would be home, that would be proof positive that the person shouldn't be calling me at ALL.

I have access to her emails. I can see them without her knowing I can see them. I do not have to be on our home computer.

What I am saying is that I have made myself abundantly clear with her that the lies are completely unacceptable, and are driving me into a state of torment that I can't bear.

And her response is that her relationship is nothing. She insists unequivocally that their relationship is trivial, and that I am out in left field. And that her lies are the direct result of my excessive intrusion into her daily life and my express dislike of this man.

I insist that this is how affairs happen, that they begin with trivialities and fun, and they progress to personal matters. We talked for an hour just last night about how I fully expect that he will want to initiate the move to discussing more intimate topics, and how much of a MAJOR PROBLEM that is, and she scoffed at me. Never happen, she said. She has a say, and she would never let him cross that line with her.

Meanwhile, that's what's happening RIGHT NOW. You should see what the OM just confessed to her.

And her reaction was to call him with deep personal concern, and advise him to call her at a time when I am not around, specifically because I do not want him to!

Also, she just called me moments ago to ask me if we can go out together this weekend. She says she's very encouraged by the MB thesis about how building relationships is based on fun, happy time together, and recreation. How much she wants easy, fun time together, not the ruined evenings, again and again.

So, today she has invited me to recreation with her, and invited me to have time alone this weekend, and then lied to me about how her relationship with the OM is too insignificant to even be concerned with, is never personal, with minimal contact, and yet called him about his personal life-issues and arranged to talk when I'm not home.

I'm ... at the end of my rope here.

eol,

You need to take a deep breath and take stock. This is your marriage you are fighting for. From the doublespeak you are getting you cannot rule out the possibility of a PA (physical affair).

Do the keylogger. Do the GPS. Remain calm. Calculate and fight for this marriage if you want it. This is no time to take missteps because of your emotions.

This is it, here and now. Listen to the advice here.

-pdc

No, really. There is no physical affair. I have dozens of emails over 3+ months. I have the whole story.

The story is that they have fun.

She escapes the crap of our problems with her recreation (including him).

Now they are getting PERSONAL, which is very recent. I can chart the course of their conversation from Day 1, going from the stupid internet links (which she insists is the whole story). That progressed months ago to stuff about their sport, to her work, to his vacation and extended family (he's single, no kids), to now discussing the deepest darkest moments of his life history and how to talk without my knowing, which is a development that's about 3-4 hours old.

In the meantime, I have been pledging my love for her, my renewed physique, my gut-wrenching torment, my promise and ACTION into making HUGE changes in my life, all to save us from the brink. I've never been through anything like these last 30 days.

As I do all this, she alternates between being receptive and being defensive.

All while the rate of lying increases, and her contacts deepen with another man.

I hope you're right. But I would not rule out the possibility. She is lying to you and you can't be sure you know everything.

A person who is involved in an affair is capable of things they were formerly not capable of. Don't underestimate.

I hope you are right and that it has not progressed to the boinking.

-pdc

Yep. She's snowing you, big-time. She was calling to check out your state of mind.

If the relationship is 'nothing' she won't miss it then, will she. Make sure you mention that to her.

I think that's part of it, and part of it is her just being conflicted. Some of her needs are being met by me, and some by him. She has a nice, easy situation, and doesn't want to be forced to upset it.

If these relationships are really like an addiction, then there are times I am sure she really wants to have the kind of fun with me she's proposing, and times when she feels drawn to seek out this guy.

But she is always on high alert with me, too. Hyper-sensitive to every mood and gesture, checking to see if I am angry, if some event has exposed her secret a little more.


The fact that it's trivial makes the pain from her lying ten times worse. I could understand lying about something important. Not to justify it, but I could understand it.

But to lie about things that are trivialities to her but are monumentally important to me is just cruelty, plain and simple.

So, she either wants to be cruel to me, or it is not trivial to her.

My guess is that this relationship is anything but trivial.

I believe she also sincerely thinks she's done nothing wrong, because she's not had an affair, and our problems in our marriage are so bad.

I just don't know how I can go about doing the Meeting of Needs thing, with dates and fun and recreation, all while this guy is in the picture, and I know it.

How do I do that? This is killing me. I've broken down maybe 20 times in my life, and lately I break down 10 times a day.

I agree with this. She has already developed very strong feelings for this man, which is evidenced by her refusal to end her affair.


I would DEMAND that she end her affair today or this will lead to divorce. Lay this out to her and tell her that this will lead to divorce, that you cannot live like this. And everyone will know it is because of her affair with OM. I would then contact this loser and run him off. Make his life a holy living hell by going to see him and by calling him up everytime he contacts your wife. He won't stay around for that because he is just hoping for an easy piece. He won't want the trouble.

Lay down the law tonight and DEMAND she end the affair, endofline. If not, then she needs to make arrangements to move out.

eol,

I respectfully suggest you take the actions suggested above. Your being proactive in this will help to calm you.

I would also not tolerate any affair conversations in your home. If you catch her communicating, I would interrupt that conversation and tell her to take it out of your home. It is extremely disrespectful to you and your child.

Is this OM married?

No, never married, no kids.

You have verified this independently? Meaning this isn't information you received thru your WW, right?

He's definitely not married. No kids. He's connected to my WW's sport group.

As fate would have it, my WW ended up staying with her girlfriend until after 11 last night, consoling her because of her own marital troubles. The friend is also on the receiving end of an adulterous spouse.

It's an interesting dynamic, because neither my WW's best friend nor mother would offer my WW any support for her EA behavior, since they are both victims of infidelity.

I have independent confirmation that's where she was. Plus the OM is out of town at the moment.

So, there was no opportunity to to confront her with her emails arranging to be called by him when I'm not home. Damn, that one hurts.

And in the morning, our child was up, and I won't do this when he's at home and awake.

Is the consensus to not do this? To wait and gather more evidence? That feels wrong to me, but my instincts suck.

She also spent the afternoon sending me messages to arrange fun time together, and inviting me to join her friends for drinks. She hasn't doone that in a year.

endofline - I'm a victim of an emotional affair who found this site at a time when I thought it was possible to save my marriage. I didn't - I've started a thread in Divorcing/Divorced.
I won't TJ (thread-jack) by telling my whole story, but I will give you this piece of advice - FIGHT LIKE HELL TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE and do this by taking advice such as that quoted above. Don't mess around with this - make the demand that she end the relationship and end contact with this other guy NOW. That includes texting, calls, Facebook, etc. He is attacking your marriage - he is attacking your family. This is war, my friend. Get a keylogger. Get a VAR. Do whatever it takes but fight as hard as you can and listen to the advice you're getting here.

My marriage is ending, but I know deep down inside that I did everything to save it. You need to do the same.

God Bless and good luck

It's up to you if you want to save your marriage or not, but you have a child together and that, in my books, is worth fighting for. Even if down the road you decide it's not salvagable or worth it, you might want to consider going for custody...and in that event, all of the ammunition you have will be of help to you. So PLEASE think with a clear head, keep cool, and listen to what MelodyLane tells you, she's helped so many here, take the steps she directs you to take. Meanwhile, YOU keep the power by remaining cool and collected, calm, no LB, no DJ, there is time enough for a battle later on, right now state to her that OM is a dealbreaker with consequences, and protect your child from all this mess. Gather information, gather, gather, gather! That can aid you should you need it later on. And you might want to start thinking about exposure once you've collected evidence...but get the goods first.

If she's using the home phone you can easily record all the calls. Go to Radio Shack and get a phone recording adapter. This will convert the phone line into a microphone plug. Get a digital , voice activated recorder. Plug the phone adapter into the recorder and you will have all of their conversations recorded.

eol,

Listen to the advice. Do NOT leave your house. The fact is that you have the upper hand right now, because you KNOW she is lying to you, and she has no clue that you know about the lies.

That puts you in the position to build up a very strong Plan A. Read up on that, and also look for the thread "Carrot and Stick of Plan A".

You deal out very good Plan A stuff when you see glimpses of your true wife. When the wayward wife shows herself, then you deal out the "stick" of Plan A.

Plan A works to show you at your best.

Meanwhile, you look at what she is doing - you continue to spy and gather evidence.

You tell her that you do NOT want the OM in the marriage, that you do NOT talk about divorce, and that you refuse to give up on recovering the marriage from the insult and betrayal this man means to your marriage. Period. Do NOT back down on it.

Keep repeating things to her like, "I want our marriage to work, and for that to happen the OM must no longer be in the picture"

"I want our marriage to work, and you must stop contact with him"

Then CHANGE THE SUBJECT, for example, "I completely refuse to accept your relationship wtih the OM. Do you want some coffee, I made some fresh."

State your position, then change the subject. Do not engage in negotiating anything with her until she stops contact with the other man. Stand your ground.

SB

This is soooo critical. Please listen to this advice. Contact of any kind must stop. The OM must be out of the picture or your efforts will fail. Believe me.

That sounds like fantastic advice. If anything, it's the exact opposite of what I always do, so it has to be better than what I've already gotten.