Hi. I have been reading some of the Marriage Builder's material online and found this forum. I am a 44 yr old man with 4 kids. My wife has been cheating on me since at least October. It has been physical for about 2 months. My wife claims to have stopped the relationship with the other man, but I know otherwise. Currently, we are in therapy. She claims to have fallen out of love with me, and that may be true, but we have a family, and I still do love her and don�t want the marriage to end.

I know that I should expose the affair based on the MB advice, and I plan to do that. I understand that I should have done it a long time ago. However, I feel like I should protect myself first (lawyer, etc.). When she finds out I expose her, she will go ballistic. My guess is that she will try to kick me out of the house (not happening) or try to leave herself (with or without the kids). I don�t want to be caught off guard.

Tonight, she says she is planning to go out with a friend. I�m fairly sure that she plans to go out with OM instead. I may have prevented this because OM�s facebook page says that he is going to a concert and told my wife that I knew this. I think she was planning to go with him, but now I think I may have blew her cover. If she goes out, this is when I plan to expose the affair.

Right now, I�m just looking for some advice and support. I will check back this evening.

Weekends are kind of slow, so be patient. You will be hearing from some folks who are great at this.

The first thing you should do is to hold off talking about it for now and gather your evidence. Download emails or texts or whatever kind of proof you can get that will PROVE she is having an affair before exposing.

Meanwhile, make a list of everyone you will expose to. You should expose to your family, including to any children over the age of four. Expose to your friends, asking them for help in ending the affair. Sample exposure letters Here

Expose all at once and without warning.

You already know that your wife is going to be extremely angry at your exposure of her bad behavior. Keep your cool and be pleasant (Plan A.)

Is the OM (Other Man) married? His wife needs to know of the assault on her marriage.

Therapy isn't going to help. It's more likely to hurt and give your wife excuses to continue her adultery while saying she "did all she could to save the marriage." It would be better to get coaching through the Harley's. Most therapy doesn't address the conditions of the adultery, how to end it, how to prevent future affairs or how to teach a couple to be in love with each other. Marriage Builders, on the other hand, is expert in all of this.

Wayward lie like crazy so do not believe anything she says right now. Keep reading.

Welcome to Marriage Builders Joe.
Sorry for your pain & suffering.

Plan A Reader's Digest version <~~~ LINK




Far & wide.

Is OM married?

Do not skip exposing to the kids in age appropriate ways.

I strongly urge you to put a GPS on the vehicle she drives.

Hi averagejoe, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry you are here. A lawyer will tell you not to expose because their goal is entirely different from yours. Your goal is to save your marriage; a lawyers goal is to never rock the boat at any and all cost. There is nothing illegal about exposing an affair so you don't need legal protection. It is not illegal to tell the truth in America.

I would suggest you read the thread that is linked in my signature. Then come back here with a list of exposure targets and we will help you develop the most effective strategy.

Therapy is destructive to marriages where there is an affair. Marriage counselors don't understand the fogged out mentality of a wayward and only serve to validate marriage wrecking tactics. Waywards use "therapy" as a get out of marriage free card, as in "I did everything I could!!"

Marriage therapy during an ongoing affair = trying to repair the flooring while the house is on fire.

Plus, waywards LIE during marriage therapy. Every time they open their mouth.

Why waste the $$$?

It's $$$ far better spent on a good GPS for her vehicle !

Welcome to MB averagejoe. Sorry you have to be here but, at the same time, there is no better place for you to be when you are going through what you are...the support here is amazing!

I cannot give you advice as I am currently going through rather the same thing you are so I am here looking for help myself, I do not yet have enough experience to offer it. However, I would like to tell you to do your best to stay strong and keep your chin up because help is surely on the way.

I hope that the fog your WW is in lifts sooner than later.

Big hugs and all the best to you!

Joe, sorry you've had occasion to find your way here, but it's the best place you could be given your circumstances.

A few questions:
--How long ago did you find out that she was in this affair?
--How did you discover it?
--What was her reaction?
--Does anyone else know?

She's out of love with you because she's got a no-strings-attached relationship on the side while you help pay her bills & provide free childcare. You've gotta change that dynamic. You've gotta rock her & his world.

So this means, indeed, EXPOSURE. Look up poster MelodyLane's "Exposure 101" thread if you haven't already read it. Don't tip your wife or the other man off in any way beforehand. Go big, and go for maximum shock-value! It's what knocks affairees out of their comfort zone & drives home to them that, suddenly, they're no longer in control of developments. Many times, it makes the affair seem to cost more to one or both affairees than it's worth. And that's what kills affairs. And if you want to give your marriage any fighting chance at all, your first step must be to kill the affair.

Sounds like you've got a great opportunity for a Facebook exposure on the OM that'll make his conduct a lot less cost-free in terms of his reputation (that is, if he has friends of any repute, anyway).

Re: the counseling - You do realize that it's totally useless, right? As long as she's going under false pretenses, it'll accomplish nothing. If you have another appointment already-scheduled before your exposure date, then I'd say, go ahead & go to it with her, just to maintain your "cover" -- but realize for yourself that as far as any good it's doing your marriage, you'd get more lasting value out of the money you're paying the counselor if you just took out a Bic lighter and lit the money on fire.

Also, DO NOT leave your home! If your marriage survives, then you'll look silly. BUT if it doesn't (and separating increases the likelihood that it won't, by the way), then if you've left your home (and presumably left your kids), then some lawyers & courts will turn that around on you & make it out as though you abandoned your kids, which can get you screwed in a custody decision. Don't leave your home. Also, tell her that you'll allow her to take your children away with her & subject them up-close to her sleazy adulterous lifestyle, just as soon as hell freezes over. Accommodating her affair will get you more of what you're accommodating. Don't even think of it, man. Stay home. Keep your kids -- if their mom's out doing another dude, they need you to protect their interests now more than ever. Stay strong.

I am so sorry you are going through this. We have been there. You already have some of the best experts on this site posting, so listen.

I highly recommend Melody lane's Exposure thread. Remember not to use it vengefully - you are asking key people to support your marriage. It is like an intervention for an alcoholic. And it isn't even remotely illegal!

Joe, P.S., as I forgot to add to my original post:

Remember, a lawyer is going to give you advice on protecting your custody-rights and finances in case of a possible divorce. He or she will not be giving you advice on how to give yourself the best odds of ending the affair & saving your marriage.

If you let a lawyer talk you out of exposing the affair big-time, then your marriage will be toast.

Oh and copy all the OMs FB contacts into a word doc so you can still expose to them if he gets suspicious and blocks you.

Joe, sorry you are here.

It�s been an eternity since I�ve been on these boards, but I was lurking here a bit today and felt compelled to offer you my 2 cents worth of help. Dec. 2008 I became a single father after 13 years of what I thought was a good, happy, loving marriage. My ExWW, my name for her now is �The Fool�; decided she needed more excitement in life, and boy did she ever find it! Fortunately for you, at a very early stage of your nightmare, you have found undeniably the best forum on the net for attempting to salvage your marriage. Please read up as much as you can, as quickly as you can, follow the MB plan, and the valuable advice of the members. Be the best Father & Husband you can, but absolutely do not show weakness to her! You need to prove to your wife you are the best man, husband, and father there is. No whining, crying or begging. Save that for this forum if you need to.

Now, with that said, cover you A$$, my brother. You said your wife will go ballistic when you expose the affair. Mine came unglued. I discovered the A on a Monday and by Friday I almost had no choice but file for D. I had nails in my tires on Tuesday, and slashed on Thursday. Valuables started to disappear and be broken, and the kids were being told the worst lies you could imagine. The Friday after I filed for D, she reported me for Domestic Battery. I live in a state where a woman only has to cry DV and the man goes to jail. I spent the weekend in jail, and she spent it moving out. In my D petition I asked for the house & kids, and for her to vacate in 7 days. Fortunately for me the charges were dismissed, and it didn�t cost me my job, security clearance, or reputation. It could have been MUCH worse.

I haven�t seen it said to you yet, but you very much need to have a voice activated recorder (VAR). After 3 years, I still record our conversations. Personal Security! Keep this jewel secret, and with you any time your wife in present. Take a video camera or still shots of all valuables NOW. Send the pic�s to a friend or family member. Take a good inventory of all of your assets. Try to do your best to save your M, but be prepared for the worst.

The advice you have received about attorneys & counseling is absolutely on target. Counseling at this point is a waste of time & money, and will spell almost certain doom to your M. I would advise you to consult an attorney to be on the safe side. You can put on hold the filing of the petition, but you also MUST know your rights and necessary procedures. IF the time comes, you MUST request the marital home, Primary Custody, and a No-Contact Order with any Paramour (POSOM). Above all DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOME!!!

Stay strong my brother
Army Strong

Get a lawyer for the legal stuff, Dr H for the marriage stuff and friends to keep you going when you want to give up. (We can help there too)

Welcome to Marriage Builders, Joe. I'm sorry your circumstances have caused you to have to find your way here, but you've come to the right place for help.

I second what you've read so far. And I would like to add: Do NOT tell your WW about this site. We have tools on this site for destroying affairs. It would be a terrible idea for her to see that right now. You may need to do some of these things to kill this affair. Do NOT show her the articles. Do NOT ask her to take the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. Do NOT try to educate your WW. She is wayward. You can't educate a wayward in an affair. She is not going to see the light until the affair has been killed. And you have the knowledge for how that is to be done - exposure. It works. If she gets angry, so much the better. You'll know the exposure is working.

How did she meet this dirtbag? Do they work together?

Thank you everyone for your advice and support. Just to give you a quick update: it looks like I may have spooked my wife with the knowledge of where the OM was planning to go tonight. It does not look like she will be going out after all. She looks very stressed about not going out and that I called her on it. I was nice about it, but she didn�t seem terribly impressed. I even offered to take her out myself, but she refused. Therefore, I don�t think the exposure will take place tonight. Plus, I don�t really have the evidence I need yet.

To answer some of your questions about the affair�..
1. the OM is not married, so there is no wife to tell. He really has nothing to lose. He doesn�t even have a job.
2. So far, nobody of any interest know about the affair (family, close friends) because I have been too embarrassed. However, I�m changing that train of thought. I know that keeping it a secret will not help get my wife back.
3. I have 3 kids that are of age that will understand that there is something wrong. I hate like hell telling them because I know it will crush them.
4. I discovered it as a fact just after Christmas. I was suspicious for a couple of weeks prior because of phone records and she changed passwords to e-mail, etc. I really didn�t have any solid proof it was an affair, but one morning when WW was in the shower, he sent a half naked pic of himself to her phone. I saw it and found out who it was by matching the picture to his facebook account. Still not enough evidence to accuse, so I went snooping. Later, I found a box sent via fedex and a card (not filled out). Using the shipping label on the box, I was able to figure out that the box contained a watch and some fishing lures. Now she bought me a new watch last Christmas and I don�t fish, but his facebook page shows pictures of him fishing. The message in the card was about �how much she was in love and she wasn�t sure what the future holds but she was excited to find out� or some crap like that. Certainly not something she would send a husband of 13 years. I called her out and she confessed about the affair.
5. I also caught her lying that she was going to see her Grandmother in the nursing home. I called the nursing home on a hunch and she was not there. I drove to his apt. and found her car outside. I called her out and first she denied it, but then she admitted it.

I need some support, so I think I will talk to some family members. Just to let you know, I�m not that strong with her. I sometimes let her off the hook too easily. I will have to change that. Thank again for all your replies.

If you need her to relax just keep right along acting unsuspiscious until she does.

I am not sure what you need her to relax for though? Your snooping has turned up a lot, enough to expose I would say.

Why do you need her to go out to expose?

What is it you are trying to achieve by letting her go out with him?

She's not relaxed and I'm not trying to make her relaxed...just trying to keep them apart for now.

I will expose, but I need some support from friends/family first. I'm working on that.

KILL THIS AFFAIR.

OM has a FB, good. Go to his FB page, and copy his friends list into a word document.

Have you checked out MelodyLane's exposure thread?

Make sure you put MOVE the family finances where they cannot be used to finance this adultery.

I dont understand. Exposure is where you ask for support.

How would you get support 'first'?

What is your exposure plan? Who and how?

This is backwards thinking Joe. Expose first and that will bring the support of family and true friends.

CV

Joe what are you doing??????? You are going to let another man sleep with your wife and you know it. The time to expose is now not after their date. Support will come after the affair is exposed.

Joe, here is your evidence:
You caught her at his house. Her admission is your evidence.


Good exposure targets will be his parents, family members and married friends. I would copy and paste his contacts into a WORD doc and plan on exposing to them. This will ruin your wife's future with his family and will be a very effective exposure.


Yes, adultery hurts kids. But lies about adultery hurts them even worse. Please read my thread about exposure which explains why children over the age of 4 should be told the full truth.


Just talking to some family members will not help your situation. Please carefully read my exposure thread so you do this in a strategic and effective way. If you don't do it right, it is unlikely it will any effect. But if you do it right, it can make a huge difference. This is much, much more than just having a talk with family members.

I really appreciate all the feedback. Looks like I will have some reading to do tonight.

Just curious....I haven't read through all the threads on this forum. The few I have read are about marriages that failed after using plan A & B. Are there any marriage survival stories in these threads?

Yes, there are thousands of them. But those of us with recovered marriages don't have active threads because we are helping others. Those of in recovered marriages attribute it to exposure.

You have about a 50% chance of survival if you use Plan A. Your odds are much less if you DON'T because affairs thrive on secrecy so keeping it a secret fuels the affair. Like Dr Harley says, "its real hard to save a marriage when you are enabler."

Please read the thread in my signature.

Yes, there are many. Many of them stayed here long enough to recover their marriage and don't feel the need to post here anymore. Others recovered and post here - I am one of those.

As far as the marriages that failed? No, not every single marriage can be saved on this site. But the tools here will give you the best chance for success.

Do you have specific questions?

Joe many marriage do survive. I had been married 14 years when we split up. At that time I would have given my marriage a zero chance of making it. We have now been married almost 36 years. There is always hope even when you think there is no chance.

Read the link on my sig. I consider us a success.

CV

Today was exposure day. WW is in the bedroom crying. I feel like I have been kicked in the gut.

Of course she's crying -- You just shattered her little affair-fantasy snow-globe, and all the glittery-sparklies are running out all over the floor, never to be put back together again in quite the way they were before, when it was all their little secret.

Good work. Keep exposing. Keep up the pressure on scumbag other-man. Once he figures out that your wife is more trouble to him than she's worth, chances are, he'll drop her like she was a jar of nuclear waste. That's just what you need to provide a chance that her head will clear.

Stay in your home. Keep your kids. Protect your money. Keep the affairees off-balance. YOU call the shots now. You may or may not be able to get her head clear & save your marriage, but either way, you'll know you did right. Stay strong. Keep us posted.

You did the right thing. Be strong. This will be an important time as you work towards ending the affair.

CV

Average Joe,

DO NOT TELL HER ABOUT THIS SITE.

Her reaction was par for the course! Well done!! Remember, their must be consequences to her action otherwise she will do it again.

Remember to ask folk for the support of your marriage when you notify them of the adultery or you may sound like you are trying to hurt her.

Just FYI.....
This is what I plan to IM the OM's facebook list with:

"If you are receiving this private message, then you are either friends or a family member of OM. The reason you are receiving this message is because, to be blunt, OM and my WW are having an affair that began 3 months ago and is currently still in progress. I have been told that the affair has ended, but I have evidence that it has not. Now, I am not writing this message to defame or slander OM, as this is the truth. The main point of this message is that I love my WW and family dearly, and I want to reconcile with my WW and keep our family whole. My WW has stated to me many times that she would like to try to work things out. We have been going to therapy to try to resolve our issues. However, it has become impossible to work on our marriage because of the affair. If you care about OM, then I urge you to help him understand the pain he is causing me and my family. Affairs are painful for all parties involved. They ruin families and peoples� lives. The relationship between the two people involved in the affair rarely, if ever, ends up working out (this has been documented). You will only be helping OM from inevitable pain in the long run. If you are someone who believes in marriage and keeping families together, I urge you to let *edit* know how you feel."
Sincerely,
averagejoe

Thoughts.....

I don't understand. Have you exposed the affair, or not? It sounded like you did, and WW was crying because of that. Now you're asking us to review your exposure letter.

Why is WW crying?

I talked to her mother on the phone about the affair. She's not on facebook. She called before I had a chance to develop the facebook letter.

Joe, I'm getting the sense that you are trickling out this exposure. You need to do this all at once, to all of your targets.

You've now given your WW notice that you are starting to talk about the affair. Waywards will often pre-empt exposure by talking to potential targets first. They spin the truth to make their spouse appear to be an overly-imaginative, insecure person who 'imagines' them in affairs.

You need to get your exposure done. Don't let this trickle out. You should have a phone list as well as a Facebook list. As soon as you've pulled the trigger on the FB exposure, get on the phone and start going down the list. Keep at it until you've accomplished complete exposure.

Be sure to notify his parents too.

Joe, this is entirely too much information and will muddy the waters. Don't get into he said/she said, just SAY they are having an affair and leave it at that. Use something like this - and include your wife's name, your name and phone # - DID YOU READ THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR FACEBOOK EXPOSURE ON MY EXPOSURE THREAD??:

Does your wife KNOW you are exposing this affair? Because if you tell her you are doing this, she can easily pre-empt you. Did you copy and paste the OM's facebook contacts into a WORD doc for safekeeping?

Did you change your facebook picture to one of you and your wife and children?

Do you know that you must space out the facebook PM's 60 seconds apart or you will be shut down for flooding?

I am concerned that you are not doing this in an organized, strategic manner. A disorganized, haphazard exposure can be a disaster.

Joe, you did the right thing in calling her mother. Close family members should receive phone calls. Ask all of your family and friends to speak to her and use their persuasion to influence her to end her affair.

Your children over age 4 should also be told of the affair, giving them the full name of the OM. Kids need moral guidance because this is very confusing to them.

AverageJoe - seems you are struggling with exposure? You really need to do it. My wife's affair was DEAD within 2 weeks of exposure and we were rebuilding our marriage. That was in 2005 - it's well in our past now and we are recovered.

Read the Exposure thread you have been linked to and DO IT!!!

Just a quick update.....

I exposed the affair to her mother, brother, mutual facebook friends, and the OM's mother (I think it was her anyway). I couldn't get the list of all his facebook friends because he had me blocked.

She was PO'ed at me for revealing to her family. Later, she said she was relieved in a way because she hated lying to them.

My WW asked what I wanted her to do to stop my "crazyness". I told her that I wanted her to write a letter and send it to the OM telling him that the affair is over and not to contact her anymore. She said she would agree to that. I told her that I also wanted the passwords to her facebook accounts, smart phone, and e-mail accounts. She is agreeing to do that is well.

My WW says that she wants to find another place to live right now because she can't live in an environment in which I'm angry. It is honestly making her sick. I told her that as long as I know this affair is over and there are no more lies and deceit that I won't continue to be angry, so there will be no reason she will have to move. She doesn't believe it, but I'm working on that part with her.

I'm still skeptical right now that she is going to end the affair, but I'm going to give her a chance to prove it. I think she realizes that this affair is not worth the pain. I'll update later.......

Good job! Joe, she will have to set up her life in a way that the OM can't contact her and vice versa. For example, if she has a facebook account, it should be deleted. HEr email account should be cancelled and her phone # changed. One thing that others have done is to exchange phones for a while.

That is a start, I will read your posts again to see if I see something else.

Sounds to me like she wants to continue her affair in private without your interference. The same thing happened to me. The affair went underground. I hope that's not the case for you, but keep it in your mind that it's not over.

I don't want to change her phone number. The phone is in my name, and I get to see all the numbers she calls and texts.

But how does that prevent the OM from calling in? That is what needs to happen. See, if the OM is allowed to get to her, the affair is more likely to continue. Your ability to see the calls and texts cannot prevent that.

Other preventative measures are:

1. putting a GPS on her car [get zoombak at Radio Shack]

2. spending all leisure time together, ie: no more nights out with the girls

Is she willing to stop going out without you?

I see your point, but she can always give the new number to the OM just as easily if she wanted to continue the affair. also, I think she is scared to death of having me find out that she's still in touch with the OM. If I find out that he is calling her phone, then I will arrange for her to get a new number (on her/my phone). His number has not been in her phone reords since D-Day.

She�s likely going to take this underground, but if you do have a repentant and cooperative WW, then consider yourself lucky. Be very, very, very (did I say very?) skeptical of her right now.

She may get fogged out and give you garbage about how happier you would all be with a D, etc. Don�t let her feed that fantasy. If she mentions D, then let her know that you won�t make it pleasant and that you will use her adultery against her and will seek sole physical and legal custody of the kids. Let her know that you�d rather save things and rebuild the marriage.

WW�es like to feed the fantasy that they can have a Hollywood D where the exes get along splendidly and their all friends with the new partners in their lives.

So don�t let her go down that hole.

How old are your kids?

If you want to make sure the affair ends, then she needs to BLOCK him from getting through NOW. Don't take chances like that, it is not worth it. If she is scared to death of the OM contacting her then she will change the # so he can't get through. Waiting to see if it happens again is not a solution, because the affair can be reignited that way. By the time you see contact it will be too late because she will be triggered and the affair will be resumed.

We have another BH who used to be on this board whose WW's affair re-started this very way. They left some avenues open and the OM contacted her again and the affair resumed. They are now divorced because she left him for the OM.

Every time there is any contact whatsoever, your wife goes back to Day 1 because she will be triggered again. It is like an alcoholic taking a drink. One drink leads to a binge.

So it is extremely important to cut off all avenues of contact in the beginning especially. She is in withdrawal so don't leave any doors open.

You need to be PROactive about this - not REactive. That's like saying you'll let your alcoholic spouse carry a bottle in her purse, and if you find she's been drinking it you'll take it away.

You take it away first. End of temptation.

Joe - your wife is WEAK right now so as others have said you need to make it as hard as possible for OM to contact her! Swapping phones is not about him not having her number or new number it's about him not being able to contact her - this is critical right now.

As soon as he rings her - even if she doesnt answer - she will be triggered.

Triggers make waywards slip up.

So slipping up might mean answering the call. In fact she will.

Remove triggers.

Is keeping a silly number worth risking your M?

The phone is in your name then changing the number will still leave you with the same access to monitor WW cell for NC.

Good points about the phone, I'll see what I can do about getting the number changed. She uses the phone as her work phone as well, so I know she will fight me tooth and nail.

Anyway, a quick update.....
Last night, similar to the night before, my WW went to bed with awful stomach pains, which kept her up most of the night. Today, she went to see the doctor. She found out that she has an ulcer, pre-diabetes, mild depression, and anxiety. My WW has always been a picture of health in the past. She told the doctor about her affair, and he is attributing every health problem to her fidelity problem! She understands now the damage she has caused to our family and now her own health. She told me in tears that she knows it has to stop, and she is going to end it pronto. She told me she will e-mail him a letter and that I can proofread it.

I still plan to watch her like a hawk.....check her e-mails and phone constantly. I know there is more to the story as well...I think she has some enabling friends at work. I just need to be careful of stressing her out too much right now.

Actually - there is no really important obstacle that wont let her change the number, think about that. Necessary contacts can very easily be reinformed about the new number. Your WW is reluctant because as any other wayward, they will talk about erasing the affair past but seldom actually go through it.

This is still all talk no walk. You can only believe in actions when dealing with waywards. They are very good giving you empty promises and since you are desperate for such information you can very easily fall into that trap.

I did.


Good!

I you feel there is more then use Operation Investigate subforum here for better snooping.

You wouldn't believe the health problems my wife has had as a result of her affair. IBS, stomach pains, vomiting (mostly on days OM was at work), etc... Even spotting during the rest of the month.

About the stress thing... A little more stress here on the front end will save her long term stress from lying and hiding stuff. I'd press her on getting the full truth sooner rather than later.


CV

Agree. Your WW needs to understand that stress is a by-product of the affair she CHOSE to pursue. Cleaning up after the A is going to cause some stress. She'll have to be a big girl about this.