Hello, all.

I have a situation arising that I could use some 'veteran' direction with.

Signed up our S for little league baseball, and just got his spring season schedule.

2 of his games are located at ballfields at a high school that is located at the end of the street that the POSOM lives on.

1. I Haven't told W about the schedule/game location yet.

2. I Haven't told S about his schedule/game location yet (and he is unaware that this is POSOM's street).


What is my plan of action to proceed here?

Thank you.

To avoid all triggers and places where OM will be.

Did you guys move?

Nope.

3 more years.

Told W about the games; will be explaining to S why he won't be playing those 2 games.

Move

Move.

Also can someone else take son to game and you and wife just not go?

That's not a solution right now. But I know it IS the solution.

1 going to college in fall, other in 3 years.

Then

Why can't you move, helpfordad?

Possibly. Its in May.

Not a bad idea. Temporary, I know.

Yes, it is a solution. It is a standard solution Dr. Harley advises to Survive an Affair.
Harley places the marriage first....children needs second

Really 2 reasons, Mel.

First, we'd take a bath with the sale, and we need equity to help with college.

More importantly, mom just diagnosed with dementia/ alz and we're being depended upon for elder care for mom and dad now...

Fine...its a solution that we're choosing not to utilize right now.

Brainstorming other solutions...

Things have been good...hate these bumps in the road.

Too long. We moved out of state 1 year into recovery and it was the best.thing.we.did.

Then 3 years later we moved out of the country for 2 years. Second best thing we did.

We are in the process of moving back Stateside again. We will never move back to Affairland. Ever, ever, ever. Due to medical reasons I have been back in Affairland for 8 weeks recovering from major surgery and it's triggering me. I had forgotten how bad I trigger when I am here. It's no fun.

We have 4 kids, the oldest is now almost 18 and the youngest is 10 and they have done fantastic through all of these moves. Kids are incredibly resilient and would much rather move than have their parents D or be in constant turmoil due to triggers.

Don't underestimate what moving will do for your M and your recovery. I am not saying moving is easy; I am saying it's necessary for the type of R you desire.

Oh, Gosh...we talk about it all the time.

We're both so ready for it. This recent medical issue makes it tough to move away.

And I know its not the 'accepted' answer, but I think we're staying until youngest completes Hus high school.
That's why I was brainstorming a solution to thus minor ballgame item that did not involve moving, which is THE solution that we just can't pull the trigger on yet.

Well, if you want a solution to *this* situation, it will be just that ~ *this* situation. And you will continue putting out these constant fires because you won't pull the trigger and get the heck out of Dodge. So prepare yourself for what to do *next* time a situation like this arises.

So yes ~ either your son does not play in these games, or he rides to and from the game with someone else and you and your W do not attend. Either way you are going to trigger that day because you will know exactly why you and your W are not at his game. Not the best situation.

MF,

Yes, I know...

Things have been really good for awhile now, and this is really the first 'fire' to put out.

W has stated -- and I agree -- that simply "everything about this place around here" is or can be a possible triggers...and getting out is THE major solution.

It's having an idea how to have a plan for these minor issues that I'm trying to balance...

Your post is right on -- even the 'solution' is a reminder why we need a 'solution' for the event...

I say alll this assuming the POS still lives there; I don't keep tabs on it anymore. The location is still a trigger, however, just like any 'old' place associated with that time will be.

We've been wrapping up college visits this spring...getting out of town, or out of state, just feels like we can breathe. I don't feel like I'm looking over my shoulder.

Just so exhausted always feeling 'on guard' because of this.

Will handle this flare up the best we can, and continue planning for the big move...some day soon, I hope.

There will always be reasons not to move. After these two are resolved, there will be new ones. It really comes down to putting your marriage first. Can you do that?

I guess our actions are saying 'no'.

The only reasons not to move right now are child in high school and care for ailing parents.

There are no other reasons. The first one will be resolved in 3 years. The other...who knows?

Looks like we need to be ready to deal with minor flare-ups until a major move.

Just have to learn to deal with it, but it gets tiresome...why can't the POS's life be turned upside down? why can't HE move, or worse???

Sorry, just venting my frustration...

Make it a great day!

I don't see how you're going to make it 3 years. We've all seen marriages thrown back on the rocks because of accidental contact and you live in trigger city. Can't your younger child do the last few years of school somewhere else? In the UK most people go to a different school or college when they turn 16 as standard. Why not?

As for the dementia thing it's tough, but surely you're no good to them drowning. Couldn't you do a whole family move?

Indie,

I don't want to seem all doom and gloom.

W is graduating from grad school in May, dughter leaves for college in Fall, son in high school.

Things have been going ok for us, not perfect, but moving forward. Haven't had any 'issues' come along, until this baseball thing. Feels like swatting at a gnat, you know?

The bigger picture is definitely a move -- but that has to be POJAd as well. And if HFM doesn't want to move 8 hours away from her elderly parents, now 1 with full onset dementia, but I do...it may be difficuly to negotiate that. Even though it IS HFM's desire to move away from here...even more than me, actually (is that abnormal for the FWS to want that more than the BS?).

Anyway, just need to find A solution -- not always the best solution -- to this issue. I think many have suggested one that could work...knowing that THE solution is getting out of Dodge all together.

Excuses, excuses.

College, transfer to another college. Moving going to mean less money for college then kids go part time and work.

Parents ill, move parents to your new town.

Inconvenience? Yes.

Though the consequence and price of an affair.

They are reasons.

You may disagree with them, but they're my reasons, not excuses.

Thank you for your input.

What does Dr. Harley say? Have you written to him?

Not yet, BH.

I always begin here.

Honestly, I know what he'll say: move.

But we can't right now, so need Plan B for putting out this flare up.

Can you look into each reason why you can't move and see if you can resolve them? What does your wife say?

For the time being about the games. Can your son go and you 2 just not go to those 2 games and have someone record the games?

BH,

As we've been traveling alot looking at colleges recently for D, each time we've come back home HFM has stated how much better she feels when we're away from here, how we both 'breathe' better, and yes, from my pov, is much more firmly committed to moving away.

But we both know that we're 'coping' for the time being. There's been no run-ins with OM, although his vicinity is an issue with where HFM can work now.

Frankly, there are 2 reasons for not moving now, and yes, we've discussed them both...and are in agreement.

1. are youngest child is in high school, a GREAT school, school district, and we are not pulling him out with 3 years remaining.

2. MIL was recently diagnosed with full-onset, late stage dementia/alz. HFM does not want to move away from her ailing M or her dad, who needs assistance in caregiving. Them moving WITH us is not an option. Theyve been married for 53 years, in the same house for 50...they ain't leaving.

Originally, I feel -- theses are MY feelings -- that W didn't want to move at all, or atleast not for awhile. However, she is on board now and what we've come to agree upon is to 'plan' on a move after S graduates high school, but we'll need to revaluate it according to parent's health status then as well.

Thats where we're at. I may have mentioned before that I think we both feel some resentment that WE are the ones who worry about running into POSOM. we stay out of that county, there are no overlapping social circles...I fear POS working at a construction job at a place W works at in the future, but W and I have discussed that and have a plan for that as well.

I know W -- who accepts full responsibility for her actions -- has seemed angry at times towars OM? because while we certainly have to deal with the consequences of the A, it 'feels' like POS got off scot free and isn't living his life on guard, or needing to move, or a loss of salary, or uprooting a family, etc.

I guess right now the situation is we are choosing to stay here (although most days it feels like we really have no choice, as the reasons are complellingto US), and until we move need to have a plan to simply COPE with these issues as they arise.

I don't think I fear a little thing like this, although a trigger is a trigger, means the end of our recovery or marriage...I'm just so exhausted and frankly angry at times at seemingly making 'accomodations' in my life due to the A...I mean, for how long does this have to go on?!?

Sorry for rambling...Thanks.

I hate even discussing this with W, becasue the mere fact of pointing out WHERE the games are is going to trigger her thinking about OM, and his house...and who know? reminiscing about those great times, you know?

Lots of kids move during high school.

There is more then one great high school.

Parent's ill. Not the first parents illness where support from adult children is needed. They way you are moving they can be moved. You tell them is it better to move and be close to you and WW, or stay where they are alone.

Marriages suffer when things are placed before it.

I do not understand you having this problem because you rather do this then move far away from the OM.

No, I'd not rather do this...I'm not a glutton for punishment.

I am an educator; I am aware of the great schools/districts that exist.

We are blessed enough to be in one, and I realize the choice we are making in staying and giving both our children the opportunities we never had.

Thank you.

HFD,

Is there a way to get OM to move was he properly exposed? Can you put a lightning rod on his roof grounded in a container of gasoline?

I think your W was a nurse and OM was a construction worker doing work at the hospital if I remember your story correctly.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,

You are correct...which is a source of consternation as HFM looks to return to hospital nursing as her grad program concludes this summer.

She is limited to only a few hospitals in our immediate area, without branching into the OMs county next door...and of course I have a fear that POS can wind up at ANY union job at ANY hospital with ANY general contractor.

We did discuss that and created a plan should that happen.

I exposed POSOM to his family, his union, and his employers at the time. Being a union worker, his 'employer' can shift location to location, depending upon the work.

We're going on 4 years now since the affair...I didn't expose to neighhbors or Cheaterville wasn't around or a billboard.

I can't retroactively expose 'harsher' now can I? I sometimes feel like MY life is in limbo while he just went on with his life, not worrying about being on guard or accomodating others', you know?

So what is the plan if the OM union puts him there to work at WW's new hospital job?

Why not though? Like I said, most school systems around the world CHOOSE to interrupt schooling and swap to a different system at this age. It's a great age to reinvent yourself and learn how to enter new social situations as an almost adult. Like he will have to do with college, and with jobs throughout his life. You learn how to socialise at a different level.

Like a lot of British people I changed from high school to sixth form college at this age (15-16). You do your last two years before higher education at a sixth form. I went from being very shy and childish in the school environment (because they were people I had known all my life) to being Miss Popularity at the college. I was at that age when I was ready for a change, a reinvention.

I don't see why a change of school is a bad thing at all. What are the concerns?


There are other good schools and school districts I am sure!

Indie,

I'm not saying changing schools IS a bad thing; I just don't see it as a NECESSARY thing. The kids have gone through enough crap because of us, and none of it was their fault.

God's honest truth: maybe it's becasue I'm stubborn or resentful or just sick and tired of it being ME who has to adjust due to the POS...it is ME who has to move? It is ME who has to be on watch where my W works? It is ME who has to have the A further affect my kids by pulling them from a great school? From their childhood friends? ME who has to uproot the family?

I just want to live a good life, and all the while the xxxhole OM just goes on his merry way, no change, no consequence, no inconvienences.

It sucks, really, and I've had enough already, living 'scared' and rearranging my life around a low life scumball.

My point is that it is a GOOD thing. What an amazing opportunity for your son! As well as moving for your benefit, your son gets to go to a whole new school and enjoy the best years of his life somewhere totally new. Why would you not be on board with this new adventure? How can a new school environment, a whole new set of friends be described as "crap"? If this is the message you send your son about change then he isn't going to like life much.




Take responsibility. It is YOUR decision to live somewhere where this is constantly an issue. That is what YOU have done.


I also don't understand what does this have to do with making a choice to live somewhere better that doesn't affect you negatively? If your town became affected by pollution, you would move. You wouldn't rage at the pollution. You're allowing yourself to get bogged down in territorial nonsense.



"Nose, this is face, where are you? Have you cut yourself off?"

You are right. We have to take responsibility that we are maing this choice. We're simply not moving until he graduates high school.

I suppose that means at least 3 more years of "coping" and dealing with nuisances caused by choosing to remain here.

I get your point, I do...I just think maybe it feels like it's giving too much power/control of our life over to the POSOM.

Thanks, Indie.

Gamma,

How I wish there was something I could do to run that skank out of town...

OK, the reasons have not become compelling for you ...yet.



That would not eliminate the triggers!

Indie,

I appreciate your insightful comment; hadn't thought of it that way.

Yes...it isnt too compelling yet, or, the reasons for NOT moving are more important/compelling to us than the existence of the POSOM (he being a reason).

I/We don't fear or see OM as a 'threat' to our marriage...I have no doubt we do our best with EPs. ENs, etc to protect and care care for our marriage. It's funny, but to me, I don't 'fear' OM...(the vets often say its the OP that should fear the BS!)

It's just knowing this thing, this OM, is out there...and that there's the POSSIBILITY of a run-in...or the POSSIBILITY that he gets work at the same location my W works, or whatever.

And that POSSIBILITY gets diminished, if not eliminated, moving 6-8 hours away, instaed of being 40-45 minutes away...

Is it more of the fear of the unknown that Im feeling...hmmmm, I'm not ssure...

If you had moved far away at the start of recovery your parents health would of been better making their move easier.

You would not be triggering now.

You would not be worrying about OM showing up at your WW new job.

You are the guy that keeps going to a bar on Saturday night and get beat up. You complain all week. The come the next Saturday you go back to the same bar and get beat up again. Week after week.

Complaining that it is the bullies fault that you are still getting the manure knocked out of you each week.

You have decided to let the OM to keep impacting your life because you refuse to take action to remove the OM from your life.

You think that life is fair. Kids get trophies for showing up to play a sport. Is it fair that they all get trophies? No they are taught that you do not have to earn things. Just show up.

Well you need to stop showing up to life. Go past that.

So, your theory is that our not moving CAUSED M-I-L's health to deteriorate?

Well, alrighty then....

Also, please don't tell me what I think about life, fairness, or trophies.

Go DJ a different poster today.

Thanks, and be well.

I don't think that is what The Road meant. The meaning is that a few years ago, your in-laws health would have been better, simply because they would have been that much younger. It's not that your staying CAUSED the ill health, but in the years that passed since the affair, their health became worse.

The Road suggests that had the move taken place during your recovery, it might have been easier since their health has declined since then.

I agree. I also think that you have no idea what OTHER reasons to stay are waiting for you in three years time.

It stands to reason that in those three years things will not stand still. More things will happen, you will make more ties, not less. The best time to go is always now!

But I don't think you will until it gets more compelling. Right now you're being worn down by inches and you can handle it today, this week, this month. Much more? I don't think so. I know it won't take three years for you to reach the breaking point. You'll get there a lot sooner than that.

I just hope the 'compulsion' breaking point comes before the marriage breaking point. I don't think you two deserve that.

If I misinterpreted Road's point, then I apologize.

Good points, all.

Spot on, Indie.

It's not compelling 'enough' for either of us yet. I feel like HFM is more secure in staying and adamant about NOT giving up control of her life to the OM...diminish the 'power' he has, that I feel she thinks I give too much power to OM over our current marriage.

For example, whereas I want NO part of going to this ballfield located near POS's house, W doesn't have that consternation, wants to give it no weight, no meaning, and states she won't live in a cage or hide under the covers or live paralyzed because of that scuzball...that we need to make 'new, happy memories' in our new marriage -- even if that means overlapping places, locales that are triggers -- effectively, trying to neutralize it as a trigger.

I think her feeling is not to run and hide from a place because of the A, but remove it as a trigger by watching our son, as a family, simply play ball...create a new, happy memory to erase the old.

Thank you.

This shows your wife's lack of empathy to you regarding triggers and evokes the "Why don't you just get over it?" mentality.

AM

AM,

I would agree to a point....I think.

I feel she is aware of my feelings and is sympathetic, but she also feels -- not in a flippant or angry (at least not toward ME) way -- that I am keeping the OM 'alive', or asigning more meaning to that time, or him, than SHE is or even wants to be this far along...that I am empowering the POS in our new marriage, while she wants it/him to have NONE and thus I am hindering our growth/healing/keeping us rooted in actions 4 years in the past. Not moving forward.

I've heard Dr H refer to 'why should it bother you' questions as 'bogged down' thinking. The fact is, it bothers you. It is easier to change actions than reactions.

He was talking about PoJA, but it applies to triggers too. 'Why should it bother you' is bogged down thinking - the fact is that it does.

It does bother her too and spitting in to the wind and claiming 'It shouldn't' doesn't change that.

How does one effectively change "bogged down" thinking according to Dr. H?

Have you listened to these?
How to Deal With Triggers According to Dr. Harley

Stop getting 'bogged down' by this idea you shouldn't feel this way.

You do. Accept it.

Now that you've stopped straining against the impossible 'I shouldn't feel this way' mantra what are your realistic choice?

a) Putting up with the source of the frustration. Living a frustrating life.
b) Removing it. Living a life free of the frustration.

I feel like I'm trying to create an a1/2, Indie:

-putting up with the source of frustration for an acceptable, finite time.


(BH, I'm listening NOW...)

Sometimes I feel my brain, my mind is so whacked now after her A, that it's skewed my thinking, my perspective of things.

I sometimes wonder if it so affected me that I just hold onto untruths, fears, that really do not exist?

BH,

Listened to those clips, thank you.

Some of my immediate thoughts from them:

*Dr. H discusses dribbling out A information. I feel W did trickle out information to me for a while, but that was through the first year or two of/after the A. Nothing the last 2 years.

I will admit I probably harbor much resentment still for that..finding out about cards, gifts, the hotels long after the initial confession of information

*I think I still question things, however...I haven't closed off the obsessive thinking about it (BOTH of us are obsessive thinkers...)

*we don't discuss it any longer...except when an incident pops up -- and that has been seldom -- but now recently with the ballgame issue

Dr. H did mention 3 important factors:

1. EPs in place -- check
2. Transparency -- check
3. UA time -- no check...with work, grad school, etc. we have been a little inconsistent with this -- we acknowdledge it and do earnestly work toward the 15 hours per week, but I'll admit it has been a struggle.

That's what I took away from listening...

Well, you are supposed to never speak of the affair

We don't, only if one of us is triggered.

We do share with each other how/what we're feeling...O&H and all that...

So what are you going to do to improve your UA time?

Some more clips for you.

Resentment Type A and Type B

You did and no offense taken. I know that you are under stress and we do not have to agree.

HFD,

Hello! I thought you guys were well into recovery, so I was surprised to see your handle among the recent posters on this forum. I get the impression that your concern is far more than simply not attending your son's two baseball games due to possible WW/OM encounter. You could arrange for another parent or the coach to get him to both games, AND both of you tell him the reason, and be done with it. Obviously, you two had the better option of moving, but you resisted. One thing you may want to do is to use your intel to determine if her Om is still
living in your area, or if this is a perceived trigger and threat.

Your WW seems to have a habit of punching your buttons at your expense, and that is not healthy. As I recall from your previous story, she declined to send a NC letter, declined to leave the job where she met him, and avoided the truth about her affair. Now, from what you state, she is willing to throw EP's aside and assume the risk of an OM encounter by attending these games just to prove that she doesn't still love her OM!
That is just unreasonable thinking and disrespectful to you. It is like a recovering alcoholic choosing to rent an apt. above a liquor store. Most of my married life I have been guided by the tenet that you show your love for your spouse by NOT in any way making him/her feel uncomfortable, unsafe, or threatened Think your feelings of resentment toward your WW after this amount of time are due to not feeling safe or comfortable with he.

And, please do not attempt to try to 'snow' the people here with the grad school excuse in regard to lack of adequate UA time. I have been in grad school twice in my life - first time in my late 20's when I went for my MBA while working full-time, and more recently in my late 50's when I went for grad courses in tax accounting. Yea, it was tough on both of us, but I am fortunate that I did listen to my W and spent time with her even if it meant that occasionally I might fall behind in studies. I tried to involve her and discuss with her what I was learning, and what it might mean for us.

Think you need to stay on this forum for awhile AND accept the advice and act on it instead of presenting counter proposals of your own. Better yet, get serious about you and WW counseling with Harley. In that regard, I agree with 'idiegirl' (she does have a very intriguing name!) that your M won't last the three years you hope for.

Tom

Do you feel this way when you are out of the area? I redecorated my home recently and I was amazed at how much better I feel. I had reached a happy point in my Plan B I wasnt consciously triggered.

The A never happened in my home but it is where I discovered it and where I was lied to. Just the place looking different makes me feel...lighter. It really makes me wonder how much better I will feel in a completely new place (which is happening soon) Now I don't have any recovery to do, so I have a lot less triggers than most anyway.



It's a made up name Tom, it's short for independent

Tom,

Thanks for our note.

Yes, you remeember the facts clearly. I wonder if for those reasons I still struggle with trust issues, healing. Sometimes I feel she has on;y worked the plan as she sees it, or wants to, or is/was convenient for her.

I get insecure wondering if it's just a personality thing, a sense of entitlement....or, since she's gone down this road now, still a WW mindset?

Indie,

Although I do feel better when I'm out of the immediate vicinity (we both do), personally....no, even on my best days, I feel that her A, excuse my language, really f'd my brain up. Like the hard-wiring is all screwed...my thinking used to be so focused, firm, and agile.

Now I often feel scatter-brained, question my perspective/reality alot, often doubt or second-guess things...like my brain chemistry has been altered permanantly from this, you know? Like I've got PTSD or something...

Hello again HFD,

After more thinking about your situation HFD I believe that you are being too hard on yourself. I believe you are trying your best. However,I think that you may be assuming some blame for your expectation and hope that your W will fully commit to making you feel comfortable in your M, and that this has not been fully realized. If that is achieved, you guys would not have to obsess about the OM.

So, I presented my observation to you, but I am not going to just state that and run away! I would like to elaborate on independentgirl's observation about doing new and challenging things and making significant changes. I.e., redecorating is fine, but in your situation, I would advise to focus on you. You seem to be a very good guy. So, some suggestions: work out consistently physically (maybe you are doing this), work on upgrading things around your home - a new nice furniture cabinet for the family room, a new bush or tree for the yard this spring, begin to engage in a hobby that interests you (w/o sacrificing UA time), take a self-interest course -real estate, art, another language, etc., do volunteer work - I would suggest your local PADS, etc. Maybe you are doing most of these things, but I suggest for the sake of an attempt to reduce your focus on your expectations regarding your wife's commitment to your marriage as well as the thing in the back of your mind about the OM possibly being in your area.

I know this is not an MB recommendation, but why don't you post a list of self-enhancement goals for you that you would consider instead of dwelling on cthe. I am a poor Cary Grant, but I have a gut feeling that women admire men who are not afraid to challenge themselves for sake of improvement, and take off in an unanticipated and unexpected direction, as long as it doesn't involve infidelity, independent behavior or a sacrifice In UA time. A careful balance.

Tom

It did really f-up your brain, in a major way. That is what PTSD does, some of us end up with it after this mess. I am one of those but can honestly say ~ it does get better, over time. From your timeline it looks like you are about 4 years out? For some of us that is still fairly early on, especially if there was a FR or trickle-truths ~ that will extend your recovery timeline exponentially.

I can't say if the PTSD will ever fully go away ~ we are 8 years out from d-day and 7 years out from recovery after a hellish one-year long FR and I still experience it but nothing like I did in the beginning. It has gotten quite a lot better over time, I will tell you that much.

In hindsight, what I believe helped both me individually and our M:

~moving out of Affairland. I have been back in Affairland for the past 8 weeks due to serious medical issues and it's been no fun and I can't wait to get out. I have triggered much more than I normally do. We are 7 years into recovery and just being back here has made me think of it more than I have in years. Totally tolerable because our M is in a great place but still a bummer.
~doing the MB program
~getting our UA time in. When we skip it or don't get our hours in, we both feel it.

Thanks, BH.

Very helpful...although I do struggle mightily with resentment from that time, maybe moreso from the aftermath.

Appreciate it!

I don't know what Dr. Harley would recommend or if further exposure would help your recovery.

I think Dr. Harley would encourage you to focus on moving out of the area or state