Hi all...most of you won't know who I am...well, some will. I am flattered that my story has been referred to so often. Sorry I haven't checked in often (or at all in 4 years!)

My FWW and I are fantastic!!! It was 8+ years ago that my life was turned upside down...but I took the wise words from the "Wonderful" members here and rode them all the way to the bank! My wife's emotional needs are met everyday, as are mine!!

All who are going through the tough times....please listen to the advice of the sensational folks running this place....it was them who gave me the tools to save my marriage.

The only update I have is that the OM overdosed on drugs a couples years ago and died. Wife found out, and we shared sorrow for him....it was my last proof to her (not that she needed it) that I held no resentment of him.

I hope to pop in a bit more, as I see that infidelity hasn't ended yet!

God bless all!

BTW, it's been so long that my threads in my sig aren't showing up, but I know they are still around. Can the mod's change those for me, or do I have to dig DEEP into the archives?

Hi guy!!! I will let MrW know you are back. Good to see you!!

Thanks! BTW, I keep having to log in everytime I switch to a new thread....any reason for this?

how bizarre! I have never heard of that happening. Go check your preferences in "my stuff" and see if your:

Topic Display Mode:
is in: Flat Mode

Do I want it in Flat mode?

yes!

To fix the links in your signature, click on your name, find the right threads and then do it over again in your signature.

It was already, but I don't seem to be having a problem anymore...go figure!

It was Magic Mel!!

Hey MWIL! You have no idea who I am but I feel like I know who you are. I'm one of those who read your entire thread. What a tough story it was but seemed to have a happy ending! Congrats!

Here is the one I read: MWIL

Can you tell us how things went immediately afterwards? It seems your story ended with killing the A. For me, at least, it seems that the killing the A stage was "easy" compared to the rebuilding stage in recovery. Can you fill us in on your recovery journey?

The exposure is what ultimately kills affairs...think of it as a fuse being lit...it may spark and burn and hiss for awhile, but eventually it explodes.

God it's been so long! I might have to go re-read my threads!

I do know that the key for me after Plan B'ing for awhile was to let my wife come to me...not just for contact with me, but to know that the reason for contact was because she needed me. I then went back to Plan A...gently, still going about my "new" life without her....she saw strength...which, with her sputtering, withering affair, became more attractive. When I picked up the kids, I would ask her how she was doing....after months of not talking to her...this after I knew she was "interested" in me.....then would "hang out" for a bit, bring pizza for the kids before I left....OM found out and went nuts on her! That was the real awakening for her I believe....the affair collapsed....I was there for her to land...and I had become detached enough from her to do so in a manner of strength, not weakness. In the end I was, and am her rock.

The last few years have just been wonderful! 3 more Disney trips with kids, all relationships with my family and her are repaired. Her Mom and Dad both passed away over the last 6 years...I was her rock.

The thing is to always remember that what doesn't kill you will strengthen you, and even moreso when you take the tools with you for the rest of you life. There were a few bumps for the first few months, but that goes with rebuilding trust on both sides.

There isn't a day that goes by that I don't actively listen to my wife with the intent of NOT giving advice....just listen! Big emotional need, that I never recognized before the affair.

Your ears must have been ringing for this timely reappearance.

I believe it was Mr. W whom just referred your thread to someone about 3 days ago seeking out a fulfilling and persistent example of a husband successfully utilizing Plan A in extremely adverse conditions.

Alas, you don't know me either, but your threads are some that i have read from beginning to end when i first arrived.

Your experiences could prove to be very beneficial and instructive to many posters, so with that in mind, as long as it does not take away from your UA time, i hope you stick around.

LTL

Hey,

I already said hello on that other thread but glad to read this as well. Mrs. W and I are just passing...actually, I think around April 25th or so we just passed 9 years. Wow, we are like Pepperband when we first arrived.

I forget, did your wife ever read your thread???

Praying for your health and hope you get some answers soon.

Mr. W

A bit of it, way in the beginning of recovery, but at that time it was quite painful to her.
And thanks for the health well wishes! Undiagnosed neck/head issues are no fun! But I will overcome!
MWIL

Sorry to report, I have a WW again...
I have struggled with a medical issue over the last year that has gone undiagnosed....creating a horrible "nerve/hormone" issue that took away from meeting my wife's emotional needs. I don't have ddetails nor difinitve proof except for her telling me she's lost the "feelings" for me over the last year. But she put a lock on her phone recently and logsout of her FB app on her phone. I confronted her and she lost it. She's been sleeping with the phone under her pillow....I'm pretty sure she's using FB messenger....no details at all of the A. This is so hard.....so deja vu

Sorry to hear about this. Your evidence is much stronger than just her report of lost feelings. Normal people just don't sleep with their phone under their pillow!

You need to start snooping. How about hiring a PI?

Crap...

Both Mrs. W and I are so sorry.

Normally we'd be giving you a ton of advice about snooping and fighting but you are unfortunately already an expert on that. Then again, perhaps your give a crap has just about got up and left.

How old are your kids now?

Might want to get to a doctor today/soon for anti-depressants. This is just so overwhelmingly hurtful.

Mr. W

MWIL:
Do NOT blame yourself for her A. You may have dropped the ball on meeting her EN's, but that does NOT entitle her to another A...

(I know you know this... just a reminder...)

Anyone know how to gain access to her locked FB messenger?

Kids are 15 and 12. I was put on paxil last feb and almost died. I am off everything. I have been misdiagnosed as having an anxiety disorder...anti anxiety meds did nothing. What I'm going through started last Sept. After a nasty upper resp. infection. I started being suspicious last week. Worst time of my life.

Do you think she'll suspect you coming back here for advice?

I don't know about FB messenger. There's a whole "operation investigate" forum for snooping.

Just once I wish snooping would simply reveal that your wife is planning a huge surprise birthday party for you.

When you confronted her do you think she knows you know?? Will she take it further underground, etc.??

Dang. I was hoping you hadn't updated your signature line in a long time. If they were adults I'd be telling you to consider just packing your bags and getting out of there.


If you confirm the affair what are you currently thinking you might do???

1. I think I might really just be done? No way am I going through THAT again?


2. I'm not sure. It might depend on what I find, how deep she is into it and her reaction to being busted.

I was there when you fought a long long time...doing Plan A, then Plan B, then back to Plan A. I'm thinking this time that, for your mental health and well being IF you choose to fight at all, it should be no more than 3 or 4 weeks before Plan B.

Dang. I'm just so shocked. I wonder if last semptember when your anxiety kicked in is when she happened to meet this OM and it triggered your BH spidey senses. Is your wife mentally ill??? Once can be a mistake and completely out of character but TWICE in ten years after all she put you through last time is a pretty good indication that this is who she is. A narcissitic sadistic unrepentant serial cheater.

I pray you're mistaken.

Other than her password? Do you not have spyware on her devices?

I'm in no condition to fight. What I have been through the last year is unbelievable....and nobody believes me...I've seen 15 Drs...had 3 MRI's. All say anxiety. Taken xanax, valium...AD's....no relief...My W has stood by me for most of it...I'm guessing the A started over the last month. She's on FB messanger at 3:00am..sleeps on the couch often. And I've been through this gig before I'm 99% sure...I Have through the worst hell this past year and still am....from my ailment....this is pushing me to very very deep depths. I barely can put up a normal face to the kids....and I have no proof to present to her...as opposed to last time....I can't even Plan A her in my condition...one year ago I had the best life...and after a nasty upper resp. infection I developed an unbelievable inner tremulous.

So sorry. What about emailing Dr. Harley?

No fight left...been fighting for myself too long....I may give her everything I.v lost my life in a span of 11 months.

What about your kids? Protecting you and the kids?

Have you straight up asked to see her phone and what her passcode is? I mean if she knows MB then she knows there should be complete transparency, correct?

MWIL,

I'm so so sorry. I know how bad this hurts.

You said..

I understand the profound grief and devastation. You have every right to give up working on the marriage, if that's what you choose. You haven't been "fighting for yourself too long" You've been fighting for your W, for your marriage,, but not YOU! MWIL, YOU MATTER! Now it's time to summon up the courage & strength to fight for YOU, your kids, your family. You haven't lost your life in a span of 11 months. You've got kids that love you, need you and are depending on you to be their pillar of strength.

Take the time to grieve, to reflect & gather your strength. Get a plan together. You & your kids matter.

This is what I would do. You don't need too bother snooping. You don't need to bother with plan A. Simply tell her you need to see her phone. If she refuses, that's proof enough. Go to plan B.

when I said fighting for me , it was meant to mean my health that has been horrific. It is not pain but something that has messed up my hormones and nerves severely on a daily basis.

Already did that. She said she wasn't going to play that game.

Then are going to go to Plan B?

Here's a thought: Do you have WiFi at your home?
Home computer?

Perhaps if you somehow got the cell phone service shut down for a night she would need to contact her affair partner and use her cell phone to connect to the house WiFi to get online.

Then, if you have a keylogger on your modem you could get her passwords that way.

or if she wouldnt connect with the cell, perhaps she would use a computer to connect (with keylogger software)?

If possible, I would hire a PI.
let the PI get the evidence and then do a nuclear exposure.

I think she has her phone directly connect to wifi when home. What is a good modem key logger and where to get?

I can relate. Went through everything and thought we were in recover for four years, only to have him do the same thing AGAIN.

Sorry you are going through this, and with a medical condition, I can't imagine.

I just want you to know what you are up against.

The typical cheater has an oops, I unknowingly let someone meet my needs and don't know what happened here.

That's not your WW. She knows what got her into trouble the last time and went down this road AGAIN. She knows how painful this was to you and she knows about MB.

Should you choose to recover with this woman, she probably can't have a cell phone w internet access, she can't be trusted on social media....all opportunities for a SSL and A must be taken away. Not sure what type of job she has but that probably needs to be looked at closely too. Because she is THAT vulnerable to an affair.

Sorry again. I really do understand.

That's all the proof you need. This its supposedly a recovered MB marriage. She KNOWS that doesn't fly. If Markos all of the sudden wouldn't let me see his phone, I would KNOW. Don't bother with Plan A or any more snooping. Go to plan B.

Plan B w/o exposure is tough to recover from if I so choose.

Always expose. Plan A, Plan B or straight to divorce - always expose. Prisca wasn't suggesting that you skip exposure.

I've got no solid proof....but it is building. I came home from staying at my Dad's, wife was working as a volunteer for my daughter's marching band. Actually stopped by to say hi. I got home to check the history on the laptop, and saw about a dozen real estate sites, searching for homes....seems another nail in the coffin for our family. I won't confront her with this yet, as she can easily say that she is just "preparing" if things don't go well. I will float.

My wife, you have plenty of proof that she is hiding something and that should be a deal breaker in a marriage that has already gone through an affair. Don't put yourself through this again. There is nothing here to save. I am sorry.

I know....

If her phone is connected to wifi then you can keylogg.
You will need to find a tech forum to ask this question; but I know it can.

Do you think she'll suspect you posting here again???

I hate to recommend snooping stuff if she might discover it.

On the up side, at least she was looking for real estate to move her butt out versus thinking this time she might be better off having YOU move out (likely using the excuse it'll be better for the kids).

As a I recall, last time she had so prescription drug issues. Maybe that was just the OM at that time, but something to keep an eye on. Instead of a personality disorder, maybe it's an addiction problem???

Do you have a suspect in mind??? If she is playing it close to the vest perhaps a private eye or friend can follow or track the suspected OM and get intelligence easier that way.

Even though it seems pretty obvious, denial is a powerful force for waywards and she will/may try to spin any exposure you do to others without proof as crazy "hormonal" "he's been ill" jealous conjecture. Keep your cards close to the vest and don't let on to your suspicions just yet. Maybe even apologize like your hormones and illness are doing this all to you and you are so sorry for speculating. You don't know what's come over you.

Give her some rope with which to hang herself.

Mr. W

btw

Do the kids even know about affair No. 1??

It was a long time ago and they were pretty young at the time. Someday soon you'll be needing to have an honest talk with them about what is going on it their lives (your family's lives). They are much older now and capable of hearing and understanding much more. If you don't recall having read the information, just ask or start a thread and information will be forthcoming.

Generally, you would expose alone to your children. Just you and them. Full honesty and answer all questions. They need to know it's not them and that they can count on you for the truth and to always be there for them. You want to avoid the doing it together and cushioning the truth into something like "mom and dad just don't love each other anymore, divorce happens sometimes but we both absolutely love you and it'll be all OK". She'll want to make it a comparative blame debate versus accepting complete blame. Even doing it alone, you do not vouch for or guarantee "mom's love" for them, because in this instance, it's not guaranteed and you can't speak for her. This mom doesn't care and she does leave (pretty soon it'll be twice). That's why you can't expose to the kids with her there. It'll involve lies and half truths, you'll be tempted to protect her and she'll fight back if you "expose" too much of the truth. If she has grievances she wants to air, she's free to talk to her children anytime she wants but you don't debate her. Let the kids determine over time who to trust, who they can rely upon and who the liar is.

If and when you get to this...please discuss it here first.

MWIL, I think you are in a little bit of a BS fog - you DO have solid proof. She won't let you see her phone. That is all the proof anybody needs in your situation.

THAT is what you need to expose. That, especially along with all of the facts of her prior infidelity, is enough evidence to convince a jury. Your children should know this current development as well as the past, and her family should know, and anyone else that is in her life. THEN, you need to go to Plan B.

Plan B is designed to protect YOU. In your bad health you are exactly the kind of person Plan B is designed for. You can never compensate for her unwillingness to protect your marriage, no matter how long or how hard you Plan A. You are well past the point at which you can be effective at Plan A. Get on out and protect yourself so that there is still a MWIL to reconcile with, if she ever chooses to.

Pretty sure it's a FB emotional affair....she hasn't had many opportunities (that I know of) to meet up with OP. I have been to many "psychs" over the last 8 months...so I have a history that she can take advantage of....even if I "got out"...I'm screwed. I will be living as a cuckold....and probably die as one.

Could I be wrong??? Everyone in my family, even knowing her history, says that she has confided with them throughout the struggles of my issues, which are resolving somewhat. My wife, came to me a few weeks ago saying that she was struggling with things regarding my "condition". I am the one who brought up her susceptibility to an affair...and she says that opened a scab that started all this. Even my sister says, she may need some privacy with friends... but she's leary...but I think I know better. The mood swings in our discussion are insane with her. She says that I should trust her, and that giving me access to her phone is a deal breaker....If in a BS fog.....I'm better off as a cuckhold, I'll treat her like a sister, I guess, and move on.

The exposure part should be with stone cold solid proof...which I don't have. And I know of no way to break into her phone to get the solid evidence. And with my "head case" diagnosis by the Dr.s, spreading around a bunch of non provable exposure could spell something more serious than just an insane response...and really, I'm not sure I want the marriage...so exposure would be out of resentment, and without proof would backfire. My best option is to live with my "sister" and have full access to my kids. Really, over the last 10 months or so, that's been how I've been living anyway with my self consumed searching for my ailment...maybe I am a head case. I have a very tough road ahead.

Put a voice activated recording device under the driver's seat of her car. You'll likely catch her talking to an OM or discussing her situation with a trusted girlfriend.

Even if you think she's wise to that tactic, she likely won't even consider that you'd do it.

Mr. w

Hide another one or two around the house or in the garage. Wherever she's most likely to engage in cell phone discussions or even Skype'ing

NO, you are not wrong. There is no reason for her to be so protective of her phone unless she is hiding something. She should know this by now.

Sir,
I just told you what to do.
She connects to the wifi at the home.
Install a keylogger on the wifi modem

On second thought, hire a PI

someone needs to help me know how to do that and where to get one.

MWIL,

I've used a "packet sniffer" before to monitor wireless networks.

At the time I could see what websites they visited, it was awhile back so I don't remember the details.

https://www.wireshark.org/

God Bless
Gamma

I'm not a total expert on that stuff but I don't think you'll get anything out of a packet sniffer or "modem key logger". Facebook data is SSL encrypted. (https)

I think you would have to go the route of getting into the phone somehow. A low tech way of doing this would be a "smudge attack".

Here is some onfo on that: Smudge Attack

And a research paper on the topic: Smudge Attack Research Paper

You could also setup a recording video camera in a place she is likely to unlock her phone and view the playback to reveal the password.

Well, I did a little snooping into our wireless phone records....noted a california number, knew it was her old high school friend Dan (by searching her contacts I've met him several times). We are in NY so it seems to be an internet affair...It really started ramping up around the 4th of July and through the early part of Dec. Hundreds of tx messages and quite a few 15-30 min. calls. Then when we had our first talking about her "struggling" the tx messages went silent (and onto FB messenger I assume) and any few phone calls stopped.
I am going to see about getting some camera phone recorder...she is sleeping on the couch now but not sure you can get a camera set up close enough for detail.

Some of this seems to have started after their HS reunion back last August.

This also explains why right after we had a blowup on the phone, she immediately jumps on FB while she's at work.

BTW, not to mention, she NEVER leaves the phone out of her hand. And I'm sure she is deleting every incoming FB message. Meanwhile I do this feeling like my whole spine is on fire.

Can someone move this thread back to Infidelity??

I always thought this one would work well, and you can view it live or record over the internet: Drop Cam

As for close up, maybe you could make something like this work. It's cheap too.: Spy Pen

BTW I have no idea if the spy pen place is legit or not. I just did a quick Google search. The drop cam I'm positive is a legit store. I haven't actually used either, but I'd give it a shot if I needed to.

Click notify and ask the mods to do it.

I think you have plenty of evidence for exposure dude.

If you came to me as a stranger and said, "My wife previously had an affair and now..." ^^ all of the above.....

I'd be convinced.

You don't have to prove it to her you know. She knows what she is doing.

But with my "condition" and med. history, it could be an ugly sitch.
Can you plan A during an internet affair?

And, of course I want my marriage...."till death do us part". I've neglected her with self consumption....15hrs./wk.?? Lucky if there was one or two....for many, many months....it was just too difficult for me, and with everyone pounding the anxiety issue on me, (and my own Phsych I was referred to said "you don't have primary anxiety....you have something wrong with you physically....but the Dr.s say otherwise (quite quickly I might add to pull out the script)

I just sent her this email:

Yummy,(my nickname for her)

�I hope your day has been a good one!
The night will be too. It will be a safe place for you, and eventually a happy one for both of us.
"

Her reply: I really really hope so!  My day was OK. Hope yours was too!

This probably why you should just go to Plan B as suggested.




Of course you can. The type of A doesn't matter. But Plan A includes exposure.

Plan B requires removal from the home for one of us....and not sure she would move out either (other than with her sister down the road, but she would keep coming back home.
BTW, do you include the Affairee in the exposure...I forgot (used to be an expert!!)

You can't go blaming yourself for this. I've read your previous threads from beginning to end. You were the Plan A master. You fought for your marriage and did the near impossible. You can be proud of that. Your W didn't follow extraordinary precautions. That's why she had another A.

Here is a formula I like to remind myself of:

ENs met + strong EPs = No Affair
ENs met + weak EPs = Affair
ENs not met + strong EPs = No Affair
ENs not met + weak EPs = Affair

The key variable here is having strong Extraordinary Precautions in place.

It's not about blaming myself, it's about understanding the MB pricipals...yes my WW has some issues that make her a bit more of a risk, but that came from both of us...I neglected her EN's (intentiaonally or not) and her seeing me struggling was diminishing her LB. She, probably was in error for confiding in many of her friends while I've been struggling, and a long time fried of hers was probably a seemingly inoccent outlet.....but we all know that is a dangerous road.

And she has ALWAYS had strong EP's in place for the last 9 years.


I'll get her back...stand back and watch! It may take awhile, and if not....I know the path of self healing, if I can ever get this God aweful condition to go away or get properly diagnosed.

I would start by seeing an attorney and finding out what your options are. Since you have minor children you want to be on firm legal ground since it may be you leaving the house and taking your kids with you.


Why would you? They already know what they are doing. What you DO want to do is expose without warning and to everyone on your target list at once for maximum effect.

Study this thread very carefully: Exposure 101

I would include him anyway in a group email. I'll plan A for now, and hope I get a bit better....it's not as hard the second time around

Obviously she has not. You don't just fall into an affair the second time around. She had to go to this HS reunion, talk to this guy, get his Facebook, add him to hers, and then have enough conversation with him over a period of time to be in love. That doesn't sound like a woman with strong boundaries around the opposite sex to me.

I wouldn't. That would give them both some advance warning. I wouldn't tell my W either. It will be much more effective if they start getting calls, emails, and texts "out of the blue" from concerned friends and family.

Oh, and have your VARs ready. They will likely break radio silence once you expose.

And I know you read this, but I just want to say SusieQ knows what she is talking about. Consider her words carefully.

VAR's?????

Never mind....voice activated recorders..

Yep. You said they stopped all calling once you showed suspicion. Well, once the cat is out of the bag for sure, the first thing that will probably happen is a phone call planning damage control.

She had one contact in her whole list that was a male. And I knew about him, and he was certainly not in anyway threatening to me but now I know different. I met him several times...seemed like a nice enough guy.

Dr. Harley generally encourages betrayed spouses to confront the affair partner.

Here is an idea for you. What I did was to call the other man up and tell him that I knew "a lot" and would know if he was lying to me or not. I told him that I would expose the whole thing to everyone I knew if he didn't give me the answers to some questions I had. He spilled the beans and I recorded the conversation. It turned out to be a great piece of evidence to play back to his wife.

He's not married...he's a loner.

Also, remember, this is an emotional affair, as far as I can tell.

It doesn't matter. He has family and friends to expose to. Have you started gathering your exposure list yet?

He doesn't have a girlfriend either?

Have no idea, he lives in California, and I don't know much about work, family, friends etc...

You know he has a Facebook page...

You can get a lot of info from that.

Your WW did not have her affairs because of unmet needs, MWIL. STOP making excuses for her.

She is a SERIAL cheater and without stringent EPs in place she will do this again. You completely missed the point of my post. When she feels entitled to get her needs met outside of M, all you need to do is put opportunity in her path and she is at risk....regardless of how it affects you What more proof do you need?

It is very disturbing to me that you don't seem to understand that she has HORRIBLE boundaries with men, a problem with IB and with having a SSL.

Your illness should have been an impediment to an affair - because she KNOWS how painful it would be - not an EXCUSE for one.

It disturbs me to see you making excuses for her behavior.

I want to point out too that her affairs did not happen in the workplace - where often times men and women are forced into working long hours together and small talk is difficult to avoid. Thus the slippery slope. One was a man she met at a bar and one at a reunion. Just my opinion but this shows me that she MAKES these affairs happen. The don't just happen by accident.

Oh no, this did not happen accidentally because of unmet needs. Your wife already knew what happens when boundaries are poor. She already knew. The affair would never have happened if she had maintained appropriate boundaries around the opposite sex. Since this is not her first rodeo, she KNEW to keep her guard up MORE when the marriage was in trouble. And she didn't do that.

Your line of thinking is horrifying and will damn you to a future of affairs if you don't correct your thinking. What happens in the future if you are incapacitated and can't meet her needs? Is she entitled AGAIN?

She gets to play the "unmet emotional needs" card ONCE. After that, she has no excuse because she KNOWS what happens when she lets others meet her needs.

This just strikes me as odd. If you knew she was on FB messenger and she only has ONE male contact, wouldn't you have known who the OM was immediately?

Mywifeilove, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I know firsthand how heartbreaking it is to deal with multiple affairs. I'll be praying for you.

Do you know his name?

Believe it or not we had sex and a very nice evening. I gave her a long foot rub and plan A'd her for over 3 hours . Yes I know and have known her flaws and knew I had a wife that bought into most of the MB principals. My family right now is what I need to try and keep together. I am in a holding pattern. As I seem to be feeeling better. I will fight for her again and once recovered will adress the outstanding issues that she has. I've been down this road and am hardened. What happens I am going to be OK. DD'S BIRTHDAY. Next week
This will be hard and I know most here would be sending her out the door. I know that she had boundaries and accepted them. But they obviously were temporary. That will change or it won't but I will take that risk for my family.

..

Well if you know his name you should be able to find out everything about him.

I dont understand.
Do you still plan on getting evidence for exposure?

Any of her Female Named contacts could also have been the POSOM.

My WW had her POSOM's listed as one of her new girlfriends names.

Don't discount thee female names in her contact as, yet it seems you did find the smoking gun with all of her calls and texts.

LTL

The phone # matches his contact info and his FB page shows a california beach. I am going to do my best at get through theses next few weeks.

Here is another idea for you. If his FB profile is not public, then you can setup a fake FB account. Use a girl's name and choose a pretty woman's picture from Google images as your profile picture. Then send friend requests to all of his friends. At least some of them will add you. Once you have a few of his friends, then send him a friend request. Most people will add friends of friends even if they don't know who they are. Especially if it's a single guy who thinks you are a pretty girl. Once you are friends with him, you'll be able to get a lot more Intel from his page.

Do you have the phone bill?
Does it contain proof of an affair (excessive text or phone calls) to this man?
If so, you can trace his number and then get exposure targets

That is despicable. I love it.

Or how about getting another phone...that WW doesn't know about...send a text to OM, "Stop contacting my wife. I will CERTAINLY know if you do".

Then see her response....if she responds at all, whether it be a severe change in attitude, or a question of "Why the F%^$ did you tell my friend xxx to not contact me(seeing as though she said she hasn't been talking to any men about this) then the affair is confirmed because there would be no way to tie me to the message, and I'd deny it, and ask "why would you ask ME that if there has been no contact with men as you've said??." And maybe it would scare the OM off and he'd drop it. (probably not)

Then nuclear exposure. Or do I just divorcer her...or play nice for the kids. Hell, at least I'm getting a fake wife right now!

Do you have the evidence you need? Do you have all of your exposure targets ready? If not, I wouldn't alert them to anything yet.

1. Gather evidence
2. Expose without warning

If you don't think you have enough evidence, then snoop quietly. As soon as you tip them off, it will go way underground and it will be much harder to get proof.

Once you have the evidence, focus on exposure.

i WILL TRY....VERY HARD,

Can you afford a PI?

Plan: I draft my exposure email, have it all set. Text OM from my phone (which he shouldn't know my number), then when wife reacts, It'll be definitive of affair, because why else would he contact her if he doesn't know my number? Then hit send on my email.

Then ask my WW what she wants for dinner!

MyWife,

From someone who has been in MB for awhile (referring to your time here due her last affair) you seem to be losing it now! The spy game? - contacting OM via a pay phone that your ww doesn't know about just to try to rattle him and your ww? Dumb idea for a vet her such as you! It would not phase them abit. Why are you ignoring the advice here about getting the evidence you can (and it seems like you now have), and exposing her affair as her husband? I understand that you may have a physical or mental condition whereby you ignored her, but does not give her license to step out of the marriage.

You seem to be prancing now - not good for you or a wife or a OM to see.

Tom

Only one male contact on her phone.

Not losing it....trust me, I recovered this marriage before...not saying it will happen again...but there is always the chance the OM gets scared and backs off...and this from the good Dr.:

"Dr. Harley generally encourages betrayed spouses to confront the affair partner."

Here is an idea for you. What I did was to call the other man up and tell him that I knew "a lot" and would know if he was lying to me or not. I told him that I would expose the whole thing to everyone I knew if he didn't give me the answers to some questions I had. He spilled the beans and I recorded the conversation. It turned out to be a great piece of evidence to play back to his wife. (from another poster)

And performing my plan is a 100% full proof way to HAVE ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE that there has been an A. No need to do more snooping.

That sounds good but make sure you record the wife confronting you and try to get her to open up about the affair.
Than you have evidence and you can even use it in court if needed.

Also, do a thorough background check on this guy and have all his contact info ready to go.

When you expose, also post him on www.cheaterville.com

Both my WW and him share many friends from high school.

When exposing, individual emails, texts, etc. or one bulk one where everyone can see who has been emailed?

Don't let others see who has been sent the exposure.
Let the cheaters wonder: Did great Aunt Mae get this email?
Did the neighbor across the street?

What about phone calls? Some people can get or don't have emails.

I wouldn't limit myself to just email. It just happens to be a way to contact a lot of people at once. Use whatever method you need to on a case by case basis. And don't forget about Facebook exposure. You can send messages on there to all of his "friends". Make sure you pay the $1 per message and space them out like explained in the exposure 101 thread.

I've rethought my plans.....it won't work. I'm trapped...most of the contacts are THEIR common friends, and I've never really become that close with any of them.

I don't think I want this marriage, but I love her...I can't "snoop" electronically in NY....illegal. I know she has gone to video chatting, based on the daily data usage uptick on her cell every morning on her way into work and during her lunch break...at least since May.

I just have to watch my back. With my "diagnosed" condition, I lose, and fear that I'll be baited in every way.
I'll be keeping a VAC on me at every step forward.

You could use vars I. The house and car. Just don't tell her about them. Even if she found out what could she do?
In georgia adultry is against the law, it's just not enforced.

Good. I didn't like the plan at all. Most oms are given a crappy rewritten historical perspective of the betrayed husband by the hopeful wayward wife begging for oms attention and trying to make on as comfortable as possible with actually being an OM. Your little scheme would have fit nicely into your ww,s plot line wherein you are this controlling paranoid emotional disturb sick etc husband. OM telling your wife u contacted him actually "proves" nothing that can't be explained away to others.

If they are video chatting in the car..... Voice activated digital recorder is all u need.

Remember the precautions.

Buy with cash
Don't put your voice anywhere on it especially while u r hiding it
Download, save away from your computer and erase all past recordings whenever u retrieve it prior to replacing it.

In New York especially u want to be able to deny u hid it and insist u are being set up. Without corroborating evidence indicating it's your recorder it's in admissible.

Lay low. Get proof. Exposing with good evidence to oms wife will probably kill the affair pretty quick. It sounds kind of new and long distance so OM is likely not yet irretrievably hooked yet.

IF u recover, you should require your wife post on mb as a condition to recovery.

I hope you still plan on exposing far and wide when the time comes.

I didn't really like your plan for "proof" either. It would have been pretty weak evidence.

Keep in mind that when I confronted the other man and recorded the conversation, he already knew they were busted once. This was after I caught them a second time a month later after she promised "it was over" the first time. I was naive about how affairs worked at the time, like most people, and hadn't had any help up to that point.

When I spoke to him, there was no debating what was going on. But getting his voice on the record made it pretty iron clad when it came time to expose to his wife. I exposed to her in person and mentioned that I had the recording. Then later, she asked to hear it. I assume the OM was trying to lie about it to her.

Also, it is important for me to reveal that my plan at the time was not to expose. I called him with the threat of exposure if he didn't back off and disappear. This was a mistake on my part. I was afraid to expose at first. It was only five months later, when I discovered my W's secret email account that I exposed to his wife.

In my state, it is was perfectly legal for me to record the conversation with him, because we only require "one party" consent. But that wouldn't have stopped me. Adultery is illegal in my state as well. And I would point out to you that it is illegal in NY as well.

Like I said before, he's single and far away. But what are they planning? I don't think this is recoverable now....I am now preparing for her departure at some point.

You should consult an attorney. If they are planning, you should be prepared too.

Will your "diagnosed condition" put you at a disadvantage for securing 50% of your kids' time, or in a custody battle?

Someone with "mental" condition, even if misdiagnosed, is at a disadvantage. I'm f'd....bigtime!

How did you find out about your W secrete email account?
I have web watchers, but she uses her iPod for most of her web surfing and emails.
Web watchers is very limited when it comes to iPhone and iPod touch.

Not really.

Ok so what is your plan? Did you see what Mr W posted? What about seeing a lawyer?

What is your plan?

Can you get a 2nd opinion to correct the misdiagnosis?

You said your condition has messed up your hormones and your nerves.

That sounds physiological, not mental/psychological.

Is it treatable with medication? Has the condition started to resolve?

An attorney can help you find a plan. Perhaps her prior substance abuse will help balance the situation?

Agree.

Wife and I and kids had a "nice" day at the State Fair. Then one thing led to another, and I inquired about the long list of texts and calls....she blah, blah, blahed about it. She was FURIOUS, and I told her that I still loved her but that it was hurtful to see those with another man. She called me "crazy" and left....(of course I'm with the kids...so she'd be leaving kids with a "crazy" man. (Documented)
I then sent a text to OM telling him to stop all contact with my wife.
I then emailed and called several of the friends that they have in common, with the typical exposure discussion/correspondence.

I will do more tomorrow morning. One of the contacts I called was one of her best friends. She said she'd be supportive of our family, but said to keep an open mind...so that's not going to be persuasive.

And Jaywalking is illegal too.

It basically means that you would be unable to use the electronic eavesdropping evidence collected in court.

You don't need or want it for court. You want it to prove and bust up the , affair.

LTL

My wife is dead to me. This is a deep long distant affair. This is harder than her previous one where I wondered where she was, because I am coming to the realization that I have a defective wife...as Melodylane has indicated....IOW, my wife as I've perceived her is dead. And I grieve so hard.....I am so low. I want to end the pain and just divorce her, but the thought of losing my home and family is even more terrifying. How can one lead such a life?? I am suffering badly. And wish I could go back 1 year earlier.

Do you just Plan A forever? Can you just wait for something to happen between them? Do I hang here until I lose my love for her? I can't afford the home by myself, with CS, and my kids are terrified of the thought of losing their home. With my issue that isn't being diagnosed, and now this....I'm lower than I've ever been.

The fear is far worse than the reality. I know this.
Plan A is not forever, it is as long as you can take it, until your bank is empty.

I would consult an attorney ASAP, and get ready. There is nothing to say you have to lose everything, however divorce with attorneys costs more than you ever imagine.

It comes down to the question, how committed are you? You will have to carry the load in a recovery and PLAN A and be the leader to bring her back (it is the hardest thing you will ever try)

I see she is a serial cheater, you definitely have a monumental task. Not everyone can pull it off.

Did you expose to your kids?

Post the OM on Cheaterville.
Cheaters HATE internet exposure

If I were to hypothetically get her and OM on tape, and then confront her, would that get me in trouble in NY?

I don't see how. The evidence is really for you. So long as you know what you know then you can be confident. You don't have to prove it to her or him. They already know they are having an A.

Did your VAR plantings confirm what you thought was going on?

I'm very sorry for all that you are going through. Your wife has gone through this program after making a mistake that was crushing to you. And in your time of need, she does it to you again. She is not safe, and she does not love you if she could do this to you again. You must protect yourself.

I would contact a lawyer and serve her papers immediately. Discuss with her briefly why, and then back it up with a Plan B letter.

If she were then to decide to end her affair and put the required EP's in place, then great. But if not, get out and put yourself in a safe place. I just don't see Plan A as a good option for you. But that's just how I would deal with this. The choice is yours.

Sir, you are already in trouble because you fear consequences more than you strive to kill this affair.

This is what I would do too.
And don't worry about the house and CS.
File for cull custody. Besides, your kids are old enough to decide where they want to live.
Based on your posts, it sounds like you are too tired and ill to put up another battle to win over your cheating wife again

You are not really following our advice so it's really difficult to help you.

Plan A forever?? Your WW is a serial cheater?? Why in the world would you even consider such a thing.

Almost everyone on this thread has told you that you should start planning a life without your W. This includes seeing a lawyer and preparing for Plan B ASAP.

Your children should be told about your WW's first affair as well as this one. Has that been done yet?

You are sounding worse and worse with each post, MWIL. This is hard to watch.

With your health issues, this is no time to flounder with no plan and hope that your WW will see the light and turn this around. That's not going to happen.

1) expose to your children and any other person that can support you and your kids
2) see a lawyer and prepare for separation

Time to focus on your health and your children and forget about your WW. Fighting for her and your M will only damage you further and in turn hurt your children. They need at least one parent who is as stable, emotionally and physically healthy as possible.

MWIL, Plan A is not intended to be a way of life for conflict avoiders. Plan A time is over. You are headed to divorce now, so you can either drag that out until you have a nervous breakdown or start taking action now. You will feel much better if you start taking action.

I found a post over on the private forum that is much like your situation. This is what Dr Harley told the wife of a serial cheater a few years ago:

I want to emphasize the point that your wife already knows about the ravages of an affair and its effect on you. And she doesn't care. This was no accident.

To all,
I understand...there are times when my "condition" (very nervy, hormonal or something issue) that makes it difficult for me to focus (though tested, it seems like what many with Lyme disease have)and having the kids during these times would be difficult.

My WW, believe it or not, still meets some of my EN...just loves her phone...and the man is in Cali...I can last, but it comes in spurts.

Not a very good MB plan, I know. I will retain a lawyer very soon, and protect assets as best as I can.

Sir,
Your older kids should be able to get by if you were having a bad day.
We aren't talking about toddlers.
I would see an attorney ASAP and seek custody.

By the way, you keep evading the question: DO YOUR CHILDREN KNOW THAT THEIR MOTHER IS HAVING AN AFFAIR?

Please answer this.

But none of this compensates for the fact that she is a serial cheater who is in another affair. A little need meetin' does not a marriage make, nor does it compensate for the emotional and physical harm that occurs to a spouse due to an affair.

I am not sure what you think "can last." Are you saying you are willing to remain in an open marriage where your wife repeatedly cheats? Because it is not just this affair that is the problem, but her philosophy of life. Her philosophy of life is to have affairs.

Are you ok with being the #2 man in this open marriage?


Exactly. Marriage Builders does not support open marriages.

I've told my son 12...my daughter, very close to her mother, when I approached her said "Dad, I know"...she's 15....She knows about the previous affair when she was 6.

The affair has gone deeper, after Friday's blow out, but wife became "nicer"....which is worrisome...we actually had a party with mine and her family members....she is up for a new phone next week and is going on her own plan...and she turned her data off...my research indicates they've been VOIP based on her data usage at pretty specific times...I don't want the fogged woman, I want the one that has been for 14 of our 16 years of marriage....but I know that she will cheat again without extensive help/counsiling. Exposure results haven't been determined..but I think they've failed. So D, seems the option, but I'd like to feel better before I fight that fight...and with my other condition, work has already been a struggle, and this would only add to it.

You might actually feel BETTER by ridding yourself of this woman. It's worth consideration.

mwil, I am concerned that you are getting sidetracked with things that have no bearing on the situation. For example, her being "nice" has nothing to do with the price of tea in china.

Are you saying your children know all about the affair, including the OM's name? Have you exposed to the rest of your family? What about the OM's family on Facebook?

I don't think you will feel better unless and until you file for divorce and get into Plan B. Your health and mental state will continue to erode until you get yourself out of this.

I posted about this earlier. Because I have spoken to Dr Harley about this issue personally in relation to my ex H who was a serial cheater.

He does not recommend counseling. He said that does not help a serial cheater. What he has said is that you must eliminate ALL opportunity for a SSL (secret second life) and all opportunity for an affair - your WW would have to get rid of all social media and probably not use email or internet without you nearby and probably even change jobs to do something working at home with you.

He does not have a lot of hope for serial cheaters to change their ways. Melody posted Dr Harley's advice to another BS to you earlier today recommending Plan B. I am certain he would advise you to do this right away because of your health issues.

No, that's not true. Going to Plan B/D would not add to your struggle.

You will start to gain some emotional distance from your WW and begin to see things more objectively and make better decisions. Your health will likely improve.

Have you considered that stress of what your WW put you through the first time (I have skimmed through your thread) i.e. Plan A for 6+ mos while she was in an active affair and being very cruel to you has contributed to your health issues now? That would not surprise me one bit. Dr Harley has said the stress of prolonged Plan A can lead to immune problems.

In NY, I don't have grounds for divorce. How do you Plan B in the same house? She won't leave....at least until she's ready.

NY still has adultery as a reason for divorce, adultery is also illegal by statute.
It also says cruel and inhuman treatment, and a few reasons.
It would probably be contested, but there are options.

You need to get with an attorney, there are ways to do everything.

You have a habit of not answering questions that are put to you on this thread. You have done this several times.

1. Have you exposed to your families - your parents and siblings, her parents and siblings?

2. What did you tell your children? You said you told your son. What did you tell him? What were your exact words? Did you tell him about her previous affair, which he was too young to know about at the time?

You said that when you "approached" your daughter she said "Dad, I know". WHAT does she know? How does she know about her mother's affair if her mother has been trying to keep it secret (of course)? How did she know about it when you didn't? I hardly think her mother has been confiding in her.

3. I can see that without evidence of sexual intercourse you do not have grounds for an adultery filing (at least, that is what is necessary in the UK where I live). However, you should still speak to a lawyer about her unreasonable behaviour. Texting and calling another man is not acceptable in a marriage, and a judge might well agree.

Whether or not you have grounds today, you need to prepare to move out. You need to find somewhere else to live and plan to take your children with you. Can you stay with your parents for a while? And surely New York will eventually grant you a divorce if you feel that your marriage has irretrievably broken down? People are not forced to stay married against their will forever in civilised countries.

If the house needs to be sold if you move out then hire someone to do some basic cleaning and tidying and then put it on the market. Are you able to do that in New York without her consent?

Start talking to (OM might need to know your wife has emotional problems and he is one of several affair partners), exposing OM and otherwise messing with him and maybe then she will move out voluntarily.

Adulterers love privacy. The less u give her the more she'll want to leave. U could also remove doors from hinges in YOUR house, set up cameras in YOUR house. Install a security system in your house (which likely won't spy on her at all but SHE won't trust u saying that).

NY has adultery as grounds for divorce.

As of 2010, NY is a no fault state. Adultery is fairly difficult and costly to prove and but it's probably worth listing as additional grounds.

NY is a mixed no fault state as of 2010 here :

Despite being generally considered a liberal state, New York has a history of being conservative on issues regarding marriage; it was the last state in the country to allow no-fault divorce and still maintains a (seldom enforced) law against adultery.[1] Until 1966, adultery was the only ground of divorce; cruelty, a ground that had long been available in most other states, was not available in New York.[2]


Divorce grounds
New York is a mixed state that allows for both no-fault and at-fault divorce. In the US, about one-third of states, most of them in the West and Midwest, are only no-fault, having abolished at-fault divorce.

At fault divorce
The state of New York is one of the states which allow the possibility of an at fault divorce. In this case, one party accuses the other of a wrongdoing (the "fault"). The other party may or may not contest. In practice, the parties might use the at fault grounds to obtain a mutually desired and agreed upon divorce: they can agree to an uncontested divorce as long as one of the parties is willing to allege one of the fault based grounds and the other party accepts the "fault" without contesting it (this was common in the past).

An at fault divorce can be obtained due to the following:

Cruel and inhuman treatment (Domestic Relations Law �170.1)
Abandonment for a continuous period of one year or more (DRL �170.2)
Imprisonment for more than three years subsequent to the marriage (DRL �170.3)
Adultery (DRL �170.4)

You are finding a lot of reasons for staying in Plan A. Sounds to me like that is your decision.

In your current state, you are about to get walked all over.

1. Yes...but her sister turned on me...lack of evidence...needs her friends...both her parents have passed.
2. I told my son mom is having an inappropriate relationship with another man named Dan in Calif. I told my daughter this morning (who was very uncomfortable with the talk) that mommy likes another man in Cali.
3.

Yep, I know...I would like to plan A, it takes the edge off for now. And the kids are just starting school.

You are playing games with us. You have not exposed the affair and are not following the advice.

Plan A is not intended to be a way of life for conflict avoiders and that is how you are using it. You are cherry picking the concept and then misusing the ones you like.

You can't save a marriage when you are an enabler, Sir.

Do you know what exposure means? Exposure means to EXPOSE the affair. It does not mean you give people FALSE and confusing definitions of the affair. It is not an "inappropriate" relationship and it is not just "liking' some man in California. Why confuse your kids even more?

Exposure means you sit the kids down and tell them "Mommy is having an affair with a man named XXX in California. I want you know that this has devastated me and may lead to a divorce."

You then send out exposure letters as outlined in the exposure thread linked in my signature.

A serious approach is warranted, mwil.

Translation: I would like to stick my head in the sand and sweep this all under the rug; I am going to call it "plan A" so I can act like I am doing something.

So apparently, this has not been done either.

Is there a shortage of gigabytes that is making you post like this? It seems to me that several people on this thread are spending more time writing about your marriage than you are. I know you are capable of writing proper sentences and answering questions properly, so why are you texting like a teenaged girl? We are putting in a lot of effort to help you and you are being very lethargic about responding. This has been true throughout the whole thread.

I would like full answers to my questions, please - or you can tell me to bog off and mind my own business, but then I don't know why you'd post on a help forum if that's your feeling.

1. Have you exposed to your parents and siblings? What was their response?

You mentioned exposing to her sister. What exactly did you tell her to get the response "lack of evidence�needs her friends�"? I

If you tell someone that your wife is having an online affair with her high-school boyfriend, and that you have evidence of phone calls and texts (which your wife know you have, so there is no need to hide the fact from anybody else), and if that person knows that she had an affair with a drug addict years ago and knows about the struggle you had to bring her back to the marriage�

...(The sister does know this, doesn't she?)

�then how does she come to brush off this information with "needs her friends"? Doesn't she care about her nephew and niece, and indeed her sister's welfare? Is she a wayward herself by any chance?

Are there any other siblings? Have they been told?

2. Do your son and daughter know about your wife's first affair? Do they know that it was a full sexual affair and that your wife left you for this man? If not, why not?

Why did you use euphemisms like "an inappropriate relationship" and "liking another man" when you talked to your kids? Do you think that such incoherent babble will protect your children from divorce? Because it won't.

3. What is the answer to question 3?

"You need to find somewhere else to live and plan to take your children with you. Can you stay with your parents for a while? And surely New York will eventually grant you a divorce if you feel that your marriage has irretrievably broken down? People are not forced to stay married against their will forever in civilised countries.

If the house needs to be sold if you move out then hire someone to do some basic cleaning and tidying and then put it on the market. Are you able to do that in New York without her consent?"

If you've decided to live with the situation and you actually don't want our advice any more then please just tell us. We won't waste our time forcing advice on people who don't want it and have no intention of acting on it. I, for one, hate finding myself in the position of harassing a poster because they don't want to answer my questions but won't simply come out and say so.

It takes the "edge" off?

The only way that I could see that would be possible is because you are in a serious state of denial. Thinking that by meeting enough of your WW's ENs will cause her to end this affair and come back to the marriage. Ignoring ALL of the other problems that will come along with this plan.

You really do intend to live a life of Plan A indefinitely. Marriage at all costs. Very sad.

Sorry...WW is constantly lurking...and I barely have time to read all the details in posts...yes, I sent out about 30 FB messages, 2 emails and 2 phone calls...My entire family knows but my Mother....last time she had a heart attack 2 days later...my exposure letters where phrased "long distance affair". More later...

Are you saying you haven't told your mother?

Yes, she has a heart condition, and she literally had a heart attack....I will NOT risk that stress on her again 9 years later.

I felt great today, but WW and I had a "discussion" about our verizonwireless bill, then it blew up from there...on her part. I remained calm, pointed out that the children were in the house and that I didn't want to yell....then calmed down and said she was sorry that she had tried to console her "friend" at 5:30 in the morning (her calling him) she said it was during a walk with her friend...blah blah....attorney coming sometime this week.

Mywife,

While I sympathize with you in having to go through another of your wife's affairs, especially with a health issue, you don't seem to be helping yourself by not fully discussing your situation and the actions you are taking to address it (i.e., applying MB principles) with the members here who are trying to help you. Sugar Cane and Melody, among others, have posed some clear direct questions to you, but giving them short, difficult to interpret responses sort of leaves them in left field in terms of advising you. If your wife is 'lurking' and that prevents you from discussing with other members here, then I would suggest go to your local library and reserve a computer for am hour or two every few days to sign on here in better privacy. I do not have any doubt that this MB site is an accepted site at a library.

Sugar Cane made a very valid point about the manner you described in 'exposing' your wife's affair to your kids. It's my opinion that using a term like 'inappropriate behavior' to explain your wife's affair means nothing to your kids, and possibly alerts them that they cannot trust you to be honest with them and fight for them as well. Better put, 'your mom is having an affair with X in CA, and she may have allowed herself to fall in love with this X POSOM at the risk of destroying our family as we know it. I want to ensure you I am going to fight for our family as best I can, because I love all of you'. Sound better?

There are a couple of more things I'd like to suggest to you on this Labor Day, but have a couple of things to do now.

Take care,
Tom

I'm very sorry to hear about her heart attack and ongoing health problems. However, do you hope to keep this from her forever? What will you say if she leaves you for the other man, as you said you suspected earlier in this thread, or if (that should be "when") you decide to move out? If you decide to file for divorce, will you keep that from her?

This does nothing to address the questions we have been asking you. Do you plan to do anything about this ongoing affair?

What do you mean by "attorney coming sometime this week"? Do you have an appointment with an attorney? When?

The first thing I think of when I hear "inappropriate behavior" is the president of the United states LYING on national television about his affair in the White House, then admitting to it....but not calling it an affair or adultery...instead saying "I did indeed have an inappropriate relationship"...

well, he was having an affair!
Call it what it is!

Mywoife,

I din;t know if you're even still here, but as I said I do have a couple of things to add.

The first thing is that your kids are old enough - ages 12 and 14 to understand the threat to your family. The second thing is do NOt engage in arguments with her about the phone bill as you did. I am not sure why you brought it up - not sure if you were complaining to her about he amount of that bill or specific phone numbers on it. But. in bringing it up and Not confronting her about a specific phone number (which probably did cause the phone and texting charges to be high) you blew it for no good reason.

Melody Lane stated to you something important. That you may be a conflict avoider. I don't know and I can't judge, but it dose seem that you are afraid of your wife.

Well I wish you well,

Tom

Jedi,
Mu opinion is when a politician addresses the public is one thing as far as the terms used, cut when addressing your family is quite another matter.
Tom

My WW just called and said she wants to go to counseling. Seperate at first, then together...Is this a good sign, or just a cover to say "At least I tried". Meanwhile, we haven't had any major R discussion over 2 days, and have shared some TV time together....but clings to her phone...and since Fri. night, (like her last A) she does not let me see her naked...Things were "floating" before Friday(with some sex, and some "fun") before I hit the nerve with asking about the phone calls, texts.
I think she's just going through the motions.

Not really. It's a complete waste of time while she is in an active affair. I know, I've been there and done that. I'd repeat that you are willing to restore the marriage and enter a program of recovery of your choosing once she ends the affair, agrees to NC, sends a NC letter, and is totally transparent.

She doesn't acknowledge the affair...says she hasn't talked to him in a month. That's the thing that is different from last time...no smoking gun....oh, and that it is an emotional affair from afar, from which I read, is the hardest to break...all fantasy. Could a counselor bring that out of her?

No.

Did you plant any VARS? I thought you suspected she was using Facetime on her way to work?

Why are you having R discussions with her AT ALL? She is in an active affair. You don't try to talk a wayward back to the marriage. All that will do is put them on their guard and take the affair further underground. As you are seeing.

x2.

She's just playing games with you, since she knows you are suspicious of an affair.

"Is she monitoring your posts here?"
I highly doubt it. She's so fogged out right now, it's blinding. This is so different...she is protecting this EA big time....the guy is in Cali....has never been married, and supposedly has heart conditions....my wife is a "motherer" and takes on EVERY person in need....she can't say no.

I would say that we protected the marriage in everyway possible, until I became "ill"....again, not blaming myself, but I have known from our recovery, that my wife was a higher risk...
It is so sad, to think that a long distance emotional affair, can do such damage, and is the hardest one to break up. I think all the exposure now is putting a bit of a squeeze, but hard to know.

One year ago, I was a happy healthy wonderful man, with a awesome wife and family and home....I sense it is about to be all taken away...

MWIL, it had nothing to do with your illness, and everything to do with her pisspoor boundaries around men. She already KNOWS the dangers of an affair and walked right into another one.

You can't blame the state of the marriage anymore. This is no accident. She was looking for action. As long as that is the case, there is nothing here to save.


I would say that was an illusion because your wife is still playing chicken with your life and your marriage. IT was just a matter of time before you got hit again.

I agree that it was an illusion.

I noticed that you posted back in May of this year about how amazing your M and WW was - and if I understand this time line correctly she was already secretly communicating w/OM (aka in an EA) at that time and had been for a number of months.

I think you get sidetracked with all this psycho analysis of your WW. She is behaving like any other wayward....except WORSE. Because she has done this to you twice now. And she will do it again.

Besides, the statement is obviously NOT TRUE since the person she has vowed to care, cherish and love she has betrayed and hurt in the worse way possible. Twice. While you are struggling with your own illness.

I don't see how you can possibly say that, when this affair kicked off (or speeded up) with her going to her high school reunion alone.

During the time you were here before, there were several cases and discussions showing the dangers of high school reunions. I don't know how you didn't know that was a high risk. I don't know how you didn't know that any social event with mixed sexes where the spouse is not present are high risk, and that high school reunions seem to present their own special danger. It obviously has something to do with people reuniting with old acquaintances and friends with whom you shared what you now look back ones the best days of your life, and in some cases, getting back in touch with an old boyfriend or girlfriend.

You might have been protecting the marriage up to that point, but that was an obvious risk that should never have been undertaken by anyone who ever posted on MB.

Your wife is not mothering him and their relationship has nothing to do with his being in need.

I'm beginning to think that you are in a bigger fog than she is!

I notice that you've done what you've done so many times before; you've updated and blogged about the last few days but you've done nothing to answer outstanding questions. You've been asked about what you told you children and your plans to break up this affair, but like many other questions on this thread they remain unanswered and you've moved on to what happened yesterday.


What have you found out about your custody rights in the event of separation?

The exposure is hitting a nerve! Absolute insane reaction when finding out that one of her friends (she calls the town mouth)was sent the exposure message. She just left saying "Don't ever talk to me again, it's over"

I was calm and cool, and said "I love you, for our marriage to survive, we will need to contact OM and tell him to never speak to you again." Her veins just about popped out of her neck, when yelling "Never!!!!".

I will not go down without a fight, but this one maybe even too much for this MB "success

Did you ever write Dr. Harley?

Have you listened to the clips in here?
Serial Cheaters

Sounds like you're going against the advice of many and deciding on Plan A.

I just don't see Plan A working out for you.

I'd bounce.

How to Plan B at home?

You can't Plan B at home, and I suspect you're hoping to find a way to do this simply as another form of conflict avoidance. You don't want to face up to the affair and you hope it will just go away.

Indeed it might simply die within two years. Most affairs do. Be honest with us: would you prefer to wait this out and let the affair take its course, rather than leave your wife?

Could you answer my question about seeing a lawyer last week?

That is an oxymoron.

My rights are minimal in NY. I'll look further into it.

My wife may be monitoring this board so I may lay low for awhile.

Did you see a lawyer as you stated last week?

BTW...OM is long distance and New York is one of, if not the toughest state when it comes to relocating with kids out of state. As long as you are connected to the children in any meaningful way (which I presume you are and have been fro years)...she can NEVER move to wherever OM is. NY courts may not even let her move out of the county.

Your posts dont make any sense.
You really need to separate from her and get your head clear so you can focus.

MyWife,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but based on your posts the last few days I think you're giving people here a short-sell -I,e., your short, convenient answers give me the feeling you did not expose at all. Why would you devote a post about 'her veins just popped out of her neck' instead of telling what discussions took place after exposure and where you guys are at.

Look, people here are very willing to help you, and I realize you may be panicked, but unless you grasp the MB plan here and the advice and give straight answers you're going to continue to flounder.

Tom

I did expose, and she took off to her sister's for the night afterward...ie I struck paydirt on the affair target. Now it's been a week or so, and exposure has done nothing....my WW is now not undressing in front of me, and is "uncomfortable" with me around the house...and is sending me emails regarding how "I'm" making the kids uncomfortable.

Giving up the dream home that we've built is not acceptable to me at this time, ie divorcing her. I just treat her like she's not there. It sucks but the alternative is a family split, with neither of us able to afford a "home" by ourselves, probably big lawyer fees, and our kids sharing time with their parents in apartments....low end price range.

I am completely stuck, for now....now if she gets "desperate" to flee, maybe she'll make a deal so that I'd be able to keep the home....right now she has herself positioned to have her cake and eat mine too.

You are not stuck...you choose to stay for finances and the kids. While that it understandable to a degree, it is still a choice you make and it will cost you in other ways. If you choose to live like this, the only thing I can advise is getting on ADs because you likely need them to tolerate a life like this.

IGNORED.

Several times.

Wouldn't surprise in at all to find out that your WW has already seen a lawyer and planning for D herself. Sounds like she's already setting things up to demonize you.

It kind of ticks me off when posters spout this kind of stuff.

Divorce is a transition and is not easy for ANYBODY who makes that decision. Many posters here (several who have posted to you) have gone through it and we would tell you it was the best decision we made for ourselves and our children despite the financial hardships and other challenges (having to move, court battles, etc).

Having a deathgrip on a WS to avoid moving when it is going to negatively impact your health and be confusing and detrimental to your children so that you don't lose your "dream house" is absurd if you ask me. And yes, I was faced with losing my dream house (built in 2007) as well. It wasn't a factor for me.

She is about as cold and calculating as a WW can get and I have been reading here for a long time. She will not strike a deal with you because she is desperate to flee. This is the kind of WW who will be calling the police and telling them that you assaulted/threatened her in order to get you out of the house. Sounds like she is already working that angle.

I say this as kindly as I can, but wake up and let go of Plan HOPE. Make an appt to see a lawyer, like, yesterday.

Isn't a "low end" apartment and splitting time with the kids better than living with your cereal cheating, uncaring wife?

Call an attorney.

Here's a thought...

Has she been poisoning your food????

A serial cheating wayward wife with an OM who lives across the country that she can't really be with unless she moves out west who talks to an attorney that tells her New York is a very hard state to petition to relocate with kids in a divorce situation. What's she to do but maybe eliminate the living problem or make you crazy enough in the process to get the courts to agree to whatever she wants to do???

I know this is far out speculation but who'd have thought she'd be having another affair. It appears this is who she is and she's capable of anything when it comes to getting what she wants at YOUR expense.


Staying with her to keep a peaceful home is actually a terrible thing to model for your children. Would you want or advise YOUR very own children to do the same one day if they were to find themselves in your position. No you wouldn't. So why model if for them? Why teach them that being abused is OK as long as everyone else is happy and not inconvenienced???

In my opinion, you need to take a strong stand to remove this woman from you life. IF she comes begging back and ready to address her issues and weaknesses MAYBE you could consider reconciliation. But Plan A is not healthy for you anymore. Nor is Plan A something you need to model for the kids. Two strikes and the marriage is over. If she wants to try to save it...then send her to us and we'll talk about it with her.

Godspeed friend.

Mr. W

Sir,
At this very moment there are people fighting and dying far away in Ukraine. Why? Because as a people, they want the right to determine their own destiny. They could have chosen to continue to have their destiny written by a foreign government but they instead chose to stand up and fight for a real life. America chose a similar course of action in 1776.

You have chosen to remain paralyzed through fear of the future and consequences of divorcing her. Like an abused wife that is afraid to leave her husband for fear of the outside world, you remain in this terrible marriage and house.

She is committing an evil sin by committing this adultery; However, you are also committing a sin and evil choice in remaining and choosing this abuse. It is evil to willingly choose death over life, and that is what you are doing.

I'm not sure that exposure hasn't put a real stress on the A. I'm jaded to her mood swings, enjoying my kids, and understand that "mywifeiLove" is an alien creature. I went through this for 3 months before she moved out last time. As a now recognized serial cheater, I have to weigh the consequenses, and ride along a bit. I'm not feeling horrible, and am also not afraid of the alien within. If someone told me that we could recover and this would happen again in 9 years....I'd take it, then leave, knowing my kids would be adults by then.. But that's not to say that in a few weeks I don't pull the trigger on D. Am I afraid?? Hell yeah. But I wasn't afraid enough last time to let her go....I'm just not to that point yet.

And no, I haven't contacted an attorney yet. She "wants out", but I heard that back in '05. Again, I'm very jaded to this all and refuse R talk now. She won't pull the D stuff on me...she has a lot of bark and no bite....

Could you outline your exposures to date? To whom was this exposed and what was said?

About 15 of her friends (and most of them are friends with OM)7 members of my family, 8 neighbors (of which my wife only interacts occasionally)...I tried to get contact info on OM's Dad, but failed to acquire.

The poisoning as mentioned earlier by ML was a thought, but my symptoms started way back in Sept. of '13. And they have gone away many days at a time....kind of a remit/recur theme....I may have some undiagnosed Autoimmune disorder, but just not sure.

WW's emotiontions are all over the place, a bit more than normal....so something maybe going on in affairville....if I could only have all the knowledge her phone has. Would a modem KL work for smartphones on our wireless network?

You need to expose to OM family and friends.
Post him on Cheaterville.

What about her parents? Your parents? What about the OM's family and friends? Your children?

Have you confronted the OM yourself?

What were these people TOLD exactly? What were your children told?


The poisoning I mentioned is what happens to you mentally and physically when a spouse is having an affair. Like I mentioned, it is devastating to your health and many people don't recover.


i am unclear why you posted this because her emotions are not relevant to the issue. She does admit she is having an affair, right?

No admittance to an affair, only an admittance that she should have told me she was "talking" more with her "friend". Her parents have both died since her last A. My Dad knows, and as I mentioned in my previous posts, and now my mother and sister know. I exposed to her sister but she is in denial also, thinks I'm crazy.
OM's Mom I believe is dead, and I have not been able to find contact of OM's Dad. The reason I bring up WW's emotions is that I "sense" that there is a bit of strife between them. (Like last OM's and WW's interactions....when ther is contact, WW is "happy" and when something is a miss, WW is sad and or short angry at me kids etc.

If the A falls apart, and WW never has to acknowledge A, is recovery possible down the road?? I'm thinking not, and I'm getting reading to see an Attorny soon. I know the way stuff has been "set up" that if I serve D papers, my kids will resent me. I am suffering but not as bad as last post month D day in 2005.

Yes, I sent a text to OM on the Friday night Exposure blitz. Saying "Don't contact my wife anymore." Never heard back from him, but WW said that she talked to him (a week later) and he was going to reply that "we've been friends for 30 years". WW flew off the handle when I asked her how he knew it was me.

Sir, your kids may resent you for filing for divorce just as they may resent a cop that gives them a speeding ticket.

Divorce is a natural consequence of adultery and your kids need to understand that.

The answer to that is "Don't contact her anymore, anyway."

It's like the way I have to talk to my kids half the time: I tell them to do something, they cite something completely irrelevant and meaningless, and I tell them to do it anyway.

Then you sit them down and you explain them boundaries in marriage. It will be a good opportunity for you to teach them about extraordinary care in marriage and that if you are married to someone who strays and refuses to care for you, that divorce becomes a very good option.

I am very concerned that your children haven't been properly exposed to and are learning to disrespect you because of your WW's gaslighting and attitude towards you. The last thing you want is for her waywardism to rub off on them.

Again, I would forget this M and focus on your children, developing your relationship outside of the presence of your WW and focus on getting yourself healthy.

Thank you Suzie....this was an email sent to me by WW yesterday...

"Im sure you are not going to appreciate constructive criticism from me right now but I am going to give it to you anyway because its about the kids.

Your behavior to them has changed. Whether you are talking to them about our issues or just about their lives � they are not used to it. Its wonderful that you are looking to be involved and I suppose that since its beyond difficult between you and I right now that would be what you want to nuture. But I want you to know that they are both awkward and uncomfortable. And feeling guilty knowing that things are tense between us that is not something you are going to hear from them. Unless you ask. If you now want to be asking every time you walk into a room how this is going or that is going, maybe you want to have a conversation with them about how you would like your relationship to change because before this � you were the provider and disciplinarian. You didn�t know about a lot and you didn�t ask. Which is what they were used to.

Georgie told me his feelings made him feel like a bad son. He is particularly fragile and I would really like you to think about that when you talk to him. Sarah is older and more capable � but your relationship with her has always been a bit of a struggle � I know you know that � and now you want to be her best friend."

My kids are uncomfortable when I approach them about this right now.

I suspect that it is she who is feeling guilty and wants you to stop talking to the kids. How better to achieve that than to tell you that you are making them unhappy?

And the substance of her complaint seems to be that you are talking to the kids at all - not just that you are talking about the affair. Her complaint is that you walk into a room and ask them how things are going with them, and you want to become their best friend when before you were the disciplinarian. Is this really grounds for a complaint?

You should not become drawn into a discussion with her about this. If it makes her better to tell you that, although she's having an affair it is your telling the kids that makes them feel bad�you can see she has lost her mind.

Having said that: you seem to be making a terrible mess of this. You have told your kids some half-baked nonsense about their mother "liking another man in California" and "having an inappropriate relationship with him" - what the heck is that? Has she become his financial adviser? That term could mean anything, and all it has served to do is to make your kids unsure and doubtful.

Ignore what she says about their feelings. However, you need to talk to them properly about what your wife is doing and how this will affect your family if she doesn't stop.

She is trying to control the message by manipulating you with the kids. She is a wayward, and waywards lie, and you never believe the word of a wayward!!!

Waywards do slip up and make mistakes all the time, so pay attention and take notes.

You clued into an important behavior queue- she is happy when she is talking with OM and grouchy when she doesnt.

So what most of you are saying is that D is really the best option from here...no hope of recovery, without her acknowledgement of the A. And the only way for her to acknowledge it, is to get more proof?? And then confront her? Would Plan A'ing her, when she lets me, aid in a further down the road recovery? Is she recoverable after 2 A's?

The only reason I didn't use the affair word to the kids is because I really don't know what the extent of the relationship is and WW can easily call me "crazy"...and with my health issues and self absorbtion of trying to find out what is/has been wrong with me, my kids were kind of seeing their Dad as "crazy" for the better part of last year. I was put on some "head meds" in Jan. and didn't sleep for 4 straight days, and trembled and paced during that time...and kids saw some of that and were a quite scared for their Dad.

Yes, that is what we are all saying.

Even with acknowledgement of the A, there is not much hope. The A is not your biggest problem. The problem is that your WW is a very callous serial cheater.

Once you separate from her, you will start to gain emotional distance and see her in a clearer light. You are so fixated on her and saving your M that you are missing the bigger picture.

Please listen: See a lawyer and get prepared for your separation. The focus needs to be on your health and Plan A'ing your children. They need you to be as whole and healthy as possible given that their mother is a serial cheater who is gaslighting them.

Waywards are not good parents! Please start putting your children ahead of your WW.

I am not going to stop hammering you about this. We don't care about your WW. We care about you and your children.

I am afraid if you don't start listening to us and get yourself into a Plan B pronto, your health will really deteriorate and your WW will use this as ammo against you.

I really hope you let go of this crazy idea of Plan A'ing your serial cheating WW back to this M. She's a lost cause and you are risking a lot by pursuing this. I don't know how else to make this more clear to you!

I understand, I was just wondering if there is anyone out there that has survived 2 A's, and recovered for good. The last 8 years have been great! And I don't just lose my W....I lose my best friend....

It's a tough trigger to pull, knowing I obviously have some codependency issues.

You posted about how amazing your M was four months ago and your WW was already in this affair for several months. So I don't think you are seeing things clearly.

I told Dr Harley when I talked to him on the show in 2011 that the last few years had been "the best of our M"....but while yes, we were better at meeting each other's ENs and avoiding LB and spending UA time together, my ex had clung to his SSL and his IB.

Your WW has as well, otherwise this affair wouldn't have happened.

That's a dealbreaker. No, things were not great for the past 8 years...

This is not an option for you at this point. Not even close. Your WW is thickly in the fog and gaslighting you and your children.

Forget WW and saving the M and focus on preserving your health and your children.

If your WW comes to you having ended her affair and 100% committed to saving your M and following MB, come back and talk to us about R. There is nothing to discuss regarding R in your case.

I felt that way at first too but I do not feel that way anymore. Your WW has failed to provide care for you...abused you and hurt you in the worst way possible....TWICE. Those are not the actions of a "friend".


Dr Harley has advised other BHs that can't let go of their WW that they will start to feel better once they separate. You just have to trust this and recalibrate your focus and goal.

We can't help you if you REFUSE to follow the advice. I believe this is a hopeless situation, but you are making it 10x worse by not exposing the affair. I can't imagine why you would play such head games with children. They really are not stupid. Giving them ridiculous and false explanations for the source of tension in the home confuses them and teaches them to be dishonest.

Expose the affair, expose the affair, expose the affair, expose the affair.

CONFRONT THE OM.

ML,
I did expose the affair! To as many people as I knew I could reach in that period of time of 1 day..Dr. H also says "multiple" exposures won't/don't work. Saying the word "affair" to my children or inappropriate hurtful relationship, while naming names is in my mind and my kids mind, the same....I don't even know if my son knows the definition of affair.

How do you confront the OM from 3000 miles away, in any other way than what I did? Keep contacting him? What purpose would that serve if I go the D route anyway? Would I be contacting him to try and break up the affair and save my marriage? I'm conflicted by what many posters are advising. I exposed, and it MAY be working...I'm still snooping, should I be to get my WW to finally admit? I'm not ignoring people's advice...I'm settling down a bit to develop a plan...pre-praring for D (getting funds situated, looking for apartments I could afford, etc.)

No he doesn't. Nor did anyone tell you to do "multiple exposures." You haven't even done a comprehensive exposure. You haven't even confronted the OM or exposed on his side, haven't exposed to your kids!!


More nonsense. Using such vague weasel language with children only makes the problem worse, not better.

]
Like I said, since you are REFUSING to follow the advice, there is nothing here for us to do. Even if you are getting divorced, everyone should know about the affair, and the OM should certainly be CONFRONTED, just as Dr Harley advises. You are a smart enough fella to figure out HOW to do that.

I have no doubt that the "exposures" you did do were all framed and qualified with similar weasel words as you have described in this thread.

What EXACTLY did you tell them?

Would YOU, a grown man, understand what I meant if I said my husband was having an "inappropriate hurtful relationship" with someone? If you said this to me, I would not understand what you meant and would have to ask several questions to understand. No adult would let you get away with such vague, incomprehensible language.

So I cannot imagine why you would expect CHILDREN to understand vague innuendo when no adult would understand it!

It just seems to me like you want to check a box rather than truly expose. Your kids KNOW their mom is catting around like an alley cat in heat and your inability to be honest with them conveys endorsement and establishes moral confusion.

MWIL, thats doesn't even make sense if you think your son may not know the definition of an affair. Instead of assuming what they may think, why don't you speak to them plainly and be direct. You are making this way more difficult than it has to be. If there is any truth to your WW's comments that you talking to them is awkward and uncomfortable...honestly, I can see why that may be the case. You are tip toeing around the issue vs being direct and plain.

My children are the same age as yours and understood what adultery and an affair was when I first exposed to them back when they were ages 6 and 8. If your youngest doesn't understand what an affair is at age 12, now is a good time to explain it to him. Kids are not stupid. It is often adults who are uncomfortable having these discussions and they don't give proper and clear explanation.

You should also explain how an affair destroys a marriage, a family, trust etc. It is not hard to understand why and doesn't have to be a lecture. I also recommend you be upfront with your children that the affair is taking a toll on you on top of your health issues...and that their mom refuses to stop the destructive behavior. If they see you being a zombie, anxious or whatever from lack of sleep...of course they are going to wonder what the heck is wrong with you...you nor your WW are giving them the truth. Clear these things up instead of tip toeing around them and avoiding them. You are letting your WW make you look bad.

x 2

I was also married to a serial cheater...and divorced him. Your WW KNOWS she is hurting you AGAIN and does not care. I hope you get ahold of yourself and don't let this woman run you into the ground. Continuing to live like this will be hell for you and your kids. This is not a first offense...she knows better and does not care. There is no reason to Plan A.

Sir,

You are not thinking clearly.
You've mentioned everything from Plan B while living together ....to plan A for the next year or so.
You haven't been factual with your kids and seem to be paralyzed by fear.

I'm dealing with a sociopath....lawyer meeting next week...she is turning the kids on me...."Daddy, it's better when you're not around, mommy is always upset with you here"....WTF!!!

You didn't tell them the truth! This is the result.

How are you upsetting her?

And what makes you call her a sociopath? She is having an affair, and doing what all waywards do.

Exactly. Since you didn't tell them the truth she is now trying to manipulate the kids. This is why we told you to expose to the kids.

I took everyone's advice. Told both kids mommy is having an affair...about 4 days ago. WW started an argument with me remaining calm. She gave me her phone said search what you want. I took it and found her FB APP (she removed if from her homescreen) and I said there's the FB app...she went biz erk grabbed the phone and called for my son...as she grabbed the phone she punched me 3 times and then as my son came downstairs she "flopped to the ground " and told my son "daddy pushed me". DR wasn'the home...I'm staying at my dad'said for a few days till I meet with lawyer. WW is yelling at my presence in the house.

So she's set you up for a domestic abusive charge. We always warn men to record their interactions with WWs as this is a common occurrence.

I hope you have a voice activated recorder with you.

I think this woman is just evil and I would cut it off with her: Full Plan B.

You need to get the OM posted on www.cheaterville.com and wreak public shame on this affair

Sorry MWIL, but you can see how low your WW will go. If you need anything from the house take your dad or a trusted family member or friend to go with you but do not go alone. WW can not keep you out of the house to collect your things. And I would just show up vs calling her to tell her you are coming...no need for that.

If she tries to contact you, just ignore her until you speak to the attorney. Don't delete and texts or emails she sends. She will be looking to get ammo against you so don't engage the crazy.

This was my advice to you a few weeks ago, and it remains the same except the part about taking her back if she agrees to the EP's. Time find safety away from her, and take the kids with you. Go see a lawyer IMMEDIATELY and carry a VAR with you at all times.

Carry a VAR on you all the time. Have you documented all of this?

Stayed with my Dad for a couple days....let things "cool off" then got the "letter" from WW that this was all "my fault" and that a month ago she was not ready to AT ALL to leave the marriage until I "jumped" to conclusions....blah...blah... and "we are done"..now school sends this email:

Hi Mr. and Mrs. xxxxxxx,
I understand "DS" has been going through a tough time at home; however, I wanted to keep you updated on how he is doing in school. At this time, he has a significant amount of missing homework assignments. I am going to give him a sheet from Schooltools that has highlighted items that he needs to complete and hand in as soon as possible. Most of the assignments are in social studies. Two are from science and one from math. I completely understand if he is struggling to stay focused and get things done. Hopefully, between all of us, we can get him back on track at school as to not add to any anxiety he may be feeling at this time. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Thanks, "xxxxxx teacher"


I'm going back home....and staying there....yes, with VAC on at ALL times!! My kids need me!!!!

Sir,

Place the OM on Cheaterville.
You need to attack this affair

Have you documented everything?

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

Contacted Attorney....says stay HOME!!! Now what. VAR on me at all times....documentation already started.
Should I "try" and sit down with her to split things up in front of my attorney?

I would post the OM on Cheaterville and watch as the affair goes into crisis mode

Done, last night....how does that cause crisis???

Did you include pics and details in the post? It causes a crisis because the to affairees go into damge mode and start blaming each other for the evil looks they receive once the affair is made public.

Waywards love to say their marriages ended because the betrayed spouse was controlling, argumentive and evil. But when you expose it shows everyone that the marriage ended because the wayward had an affair.

They lose suppport and once that happens problems that were cause by others are now caused by each other. Dr. Harley has said on numerous occasions that affairs and affairages end because of the lack of POJA. To selfish people will eventually fight. Glad to see you have a VAR and make sure you document! Did you expose to your kids yet?

Yes....name, affair....daughter has retracted from me and is "cheery" in front of WW....DS is 12 and very confused and struggling.

Well, keep your recorder on because they (cheaters) usually go ballistic after exposure and she has already made false allegations against you

How will THEY see it? BTW, I included pics....it's featured on the cheater of the day....go vote read the stories and you'll know!!

Your children are confused because you didn't do a FULL exposure. I suggest you do that now if you haven't already, use kid friendly terms to explain the situation.

I did just as ML said...."mommy is having an affair with xx and it is putting our marriage and family in jepordy. I just hope that I don't end up on "Deadly Affairs"......

MWIL,

You wrote, Done, last night....how does that cause crisis???

Because he is up to 1600+ views, any one of those views could be his coworker, boss, parents, siblings or neighbors, think of each of those views as a landmine for OM to step on.

There is no way for them to get together as a couple now and claim it is some sort of perfect soul mate union, it's an affair and everyone knows it.

God Bless
Gamma

WW and I just had best talk yet...She disclosed a bit about the relationship. ..she says he has a coke habit and two girlfriends he's struggling with...WW is saying that she probably got to involved with his buisness...Surely the is more...but it is the most detail I've gotten...At least I' back home...and the kids love it. I know Plan A'ING the WW is not bringin her back...but it gives me the chance to calm the kids down a bit. I was shocked at her reaction to me returning....I know that it is a game for her...but knowing so keeps my emotions from being suckered in. The whole psychological aspect of this is fascinating. I look at my WW as some science experiment to observe...

What did your kids say?

DD retracted, didn't want to talk about it.
DS asked, "But Mommy says her friend lives 3000 miles away" I told him that talking, texting and loving someone else hurts Daddy, and steals Mommy's love for me.
He cried, but is now seeing a school councilor daily....I went to the school concilor and told her about the affair. She was more interested in "me showing my son and daughter strength in their Dad.....Makes perfect sense.

Well, what else does the atty say? He expects you to live with your serial cheating WW indefinitely or what?

If your Plan is D and your WW refuses to leave then I would think if you file for D, you should be covered custody wise even if you move out.

I don't have any idea of what your plan is except I see mention of Plan A and it calming your kids down which makes absolutely no sense to me.

It seems like you keep trying to paint the situation so that it is best for you to keep Plan A'ing your WW.

Suzie,
You are right. I keep wondering if plan A may make a difference...since I have no idea how deep the emotional connection is with OM....I'm getting strong information that there has been 0 physical contact between them.

For nearly 1 year, I have provided my WW with almost no Love Bank deposits while I was so self absorbed with finding out what was wrong with me....I DO think that contributed greatly to weakening the strength of our marriage, as it surely was a very unattractive quality that I was exhibiting during 95% of the time I was around her, and even at work.

Now that I am getting "better", a better Plan A would seem prudent for what's at stake...she is certainly trapped, but last night I showed strength....no neediness, and only talked R when she initiated at....being understanding of what she had been going through. Still assessing what this is all about.

Honestly I may have to abandon this thread bc this is really hard to watch.

Your WW is gaslighting you in front of your children, being proactive in turning them against you and in an affair with a coke addict?

You should be abandoning Plan Hope to win back a cold and callous SERIAL CHEATER and instead be focusing on filing for sole/primary custody of your children.

Waywards are terrible parents and she is already brainwashing them and you admitted yourself that your son is struggling and very confused.

Seriously??

At what point do you put your children's needs above your desire to keep your WW?

Because my WW has more ammo to get full custody (esp. in NY) than I do.....In NY, she will be treated like a queen....adultry means nothing in NY. She is super involved in the kids activities. It's not plan hope....it's plan "I'm f'd no matter what....not regarding WW....but kids.....I'd rather have full access to them right now....she can't gaslight them, when I'm around and not acting like I'm saving the marriage. Last night, my DS said "I'm so glad you are home." And the WW, MAY be cracking a bit.....a SUPER lot riding on MY decisions....

My attorney said best case is I get a couple days with kids....so WW would gaslight them unabated for 5 days.

I do not believe you. I believe your focus is Plan Aing your WW for life (you have basically asked/admitted to this).

Lol...you sound like my WW.

Then your WW must know that you will not divorce her no matter how she treats you. If that is the case, you may end up staying married but you won't be in a happy marriage as she has little motive to act right...your children will see that too.

That was your exposure to your children? Really?

I don't think this is a joke.

I have never heard another divorcing BH say this before. As far as I know, men these days have a very good argument for 50-50 unless the mother is a SAHM, in that case she has a good argument for primary. You have already told us that she is dating some cokehead loser. YOU are the one with ammo for primary.

Even if you fight ONLY for 50-50 and she gets primary, you can tell your kids that you are fighting for them and the situation will be clear that you do not agree with what she is doing etc.

You have admitted your children are struggling and confused. I can see why. What you are doing makes ZERO sense. Chasing after a serial cheating WW who gaslights you in front of your children.

You have admitted you have health issues and stress will only exacerbate it. If you were putting your children FIRST, then you would abandon Plan A.

It is clear that you want to stay married at all costs.

^^^^^^^

Please listen to this.

The "deadly affaairs" comment was not what I said to the kids. I didn'the close the quote before that comment. I sat down with WW to discuss separation of assets, kids etc.... she is pretty willing to give me quite a bit. I will pass some of this to my lawyer... She is agreeing to use just my lawyer..If I can get that to actually happen, it would be good for me. I want this done...plan A'ING as you have said is not good for the kids either. But I did help my boy a good deal with his homework while WW was busy on her phone. She's deep into protection mode...but I really don'the care anymore .

BTW..I'm actually feeling quite a bit better health wise. WW shed some crock tears during our discussion of our impending financial plight when this goes down.

Actually, In Plan A you shouldnt even be talking divorce with her

Mywife,
You've been down this road before. This time you don't seem to be executing a clear plan. Step back and think about this.

Talked to Lawyer....he says in my situation (after discussing all debt, fees and selling of the house), and in NY, most likely I get kids every other weekend,on paper, pay up the A$$ in child support, and WW will try to push more time onto me with the kids to "fit her needs" while still getting full CS....says he's seen it way too often. I'd be trying to support myself on around $400/wk in an area that has aptmts. for no less then $700/mo.

He said try working it out with her. DOH!

Can you go for primary custody of the kids?

Sure...but odds according to attorney are slim to none in NY. My wife on the surface is a "perfect Mother". No history of any misdoings...she has perfected the art of sociopathic behavior. So charming on the surface...but to the victims...unproveable emotional abuser when she'saw done with you.

What about your documentation of her hitting you?

No bruises, no injury....only her falling to the ground in front of my son.....attorney said it would mean nothing.

Sir,
This was my scenerio too...
and I requested a GAL for the kids and that broke through her perfect image...I ended up with custody

GAL?

Guardian Ad Litem (sp), basically an attorney for your kids that is independent and reports to the court (usually carries a ton of weight with the judge)

Then ask another atty and fight for at least 50-50. A quick google search told me that in NY a mother has no more greater rights than the father.

It doesn't matter the outcome anyway, you cannot continue on indefintiely living in a house Plan A'ing an active serial cheating wayward with your health issues.

It doesn't matter if you tell us you will lose the house and have to pay child support - you need to start moving towards separation and fight the good fight, period.

Most divorce lawyers are awful. It is not uncommon to have to shop around to find the one who will fight for you.

Thanks Suzie for the tough love. I am seeing a new therapist, and essentially my WW of 20 years is a full blown narcissist...and I am a codependent...they are like magnets in the beginning, but when the narcissist looses their "supply", they seek on the next victim, and the history of the marriage, dreams, hopes are become non-existant when there is a new narcisssitic supply (OM).

So I become a robot to her and turn ALL my attention to the kids, for right now....sorting out some financial stuff.

Now, I ask again, last time (2005)when we sat down with one lawyer, WW cut a pretty decent deal with me with a seperation agreement, because she wanted out so bad. Is it a bad idea to try and go that route and see what she has to offer? Or just drop the D bomb? She said she is already willing to split time with kids, and no CS either way, plus take her new car payment completely and we split the equity in the home. I would give myself about a 99% chance that I couldn't do better than that with a D slapped on her (and it would cost a ton less than D)

always consult with an attorney, what about all the other hard assets, who gets the deductions on income tax, what about college, what about cars and insurance
dont sign something so hastily, it could be full of future pitfalls and sources of huge arguements in the future
get it all spelled out down to the detail, who picks up and who drops off, who pays for specials, camps, activities, what about holidays, birthdays, fathers day,

you get the picture, divorce process is set up for future litigation and that only helps the attorneys, so get it all spelled out now

If that is the route you are headed.

I retained an attorney in my D..my ex did not. I handled all the negotiations directly with my ex via email or I would have been paying my attorney to be the messenger ALOT...no thanks. I really only needed the attorney for drafting purposes and court procedures. The negotiations were minimal. I told my stbxWH what I wanted and I was fair. If he wanted to fight about stuff, especially the things that were deal breakers to me then we would go to court. I made this VERY clear to him and made it VERY clear that all his cheating, lying, ahole behavior would be presented along with all the affair evidence I had. There is no way he would not have looked like a dog (because he was) and he knew it. Your WW has a coke head OP. She will not want that nor her first affair brought up in court...and yes I would bring up EVERYTHING even if a lawyer claims it doesn't matter. This is powerful leverage...don't throw it away.

Just because you file doesn't mean you will never have to discuss things with your WW so I am not sure why you things have to be sorted out before filing. If she has told you these things then tell her you accept and will contact your attorney to start D proceeding. She can SAY anything, until it is in an order her promises don't mean anything.

This is YOUR call. There is no MB answer to this. I've said several times from a legal standpoint, taking advantage of a waywards desire to end things quicky, quietly and friend-like, can work out.

Considerations:

1. You might get a better settlement

2. You might save legal fees (I say might but very often, when it gets to the bottom line signing of the deal, the wayward's entitlement kicks in and they abandon the "deal" and demand MORE. In that instance, you've just wasted more legal fees trying to resolve something that was never really resolvable. It's one of the pitfalls of negotiating with a terrorist.

3. With younger kids I try to suggest Betrayed's don't negotiate a settlement until after discovery and all the wayward behavior is fully documented. This is because waywards rewrite history and if you don't document the affair, it never happened and the divorce reason the wayward gives forever after becomes lies like we just weren't compatible, I loved him as a friend, he abused me, etc. Your kids are older but they also seem confused about their mother's abuse of you. A quicky settlement MAY imply to them that you don't care about them (or your wife) and by not fighting for the marriage or her you are seemingly giving up on the family (just as much as mom is) and/or confirming to them what mom said; you don't really care about her happiness, blah, blah, blah. They will more easily conclude the divorce was a 50-50 problem with the marriage versus Dad put up with enough and he'll forever have our sympathy and we appreciate he gave mom a 2nd chance years ago when we were young and we don't expect him to forgive her again.

*children are natural narcissists...they don't care much about how this effects YOU. They are more concerned about themselves and their lives. Some will internalize blame...thinking THEY had something to do with it. Maybe even one of the them knew about the affair before you did and suffers from guilt about whether he or she should have said something earlier and things would be different. All I suggest is you model appropriate behavior in front of them. I might be really confusing if you are all friendly during this quick settlement process in order to take advantage of her willingness to surrender without a fight and save attorney fees. Instead you need to model how one protects themselves from abuse appropriately.

Therefore...IF you try to take advantage of an available deal...negotiate with the terrorist privately without giving the impression to the kids that everything is all friendly and nice when it clearly isn't.

Carefully consider this.
There is an advantage to an affair if you want custody or assets in a divorce because waywards will walk away from everything

Yes, unless it is a long distance emotional affair....then it is not so cut and dry....she has nothing to "run to"....thus it becomes more complicated....she might bite much harder when confronted with D.

OR...
The OM could MOVE to your area!

Yup, I have specifically heard Dr Harley say this to a caller considering D on his radio show.

Not really. Long distance emotional affairs are very common on this forum. All affairs are irrational - based on feelings and fantasy. NOT on rational thoughts. Waywards don't think logically about their affairs.

Of course she is fantasizing about being single. That is enough.

he very well could have already