Hello all.

I have posted here a couple of times before. We have tried to follow some of the concepts back in the months following our separation in March. That is the only other time my husband has left me. We haven't been applying much of the MB concepts since then, but nonetheless I thought this would be a good place for some advice and support.

So he left yesterday after me trying to talk to him about something that bothered me. I calmly tried to talk to him about his excess video game time lately. He got mad and said he didn't know what to say and so I said I didn't want to be with him, which I didn't mean, only said it because I was so angry. And he said fine, showered and left. I tried to get him to stay but out he went.

I tried calling him a ton of times, and begged him to come back to talk. He would do none of it and would only text me. Nothing of any real value. Basically divorcing me through text message. He goes on saying some really Mean and hurtful things. He says I'm still so controlling, all I do is complain and say everything is his fault, etc. Almost all of the things he lists I haven't done since before he left in March! I've fixed all of my major issues. Meanwhile he hasn't really worked on anything. I honestly am starting to believe that he thinks people aren't right for each other if it's not magically perfect on its own without any work, which no lasting relationship is. That's also one of the things he said, is that we just aren't right for each other.

So since then he has gotten quite a bit of his stuff. He is staying with a family member of his. But also yesterday hours after this happened I see that he changed his Facebook password which has never been changed in our whole 4 year relationship. He clearly is doing something he doesn't want me to see. We have access to all of each others accounts by the way. Always have. Then to top everything off I see just hours ago that he adds a girl he works with on facebook also. We both don't talk to people of the opposite sex, and have always felt the same way about the topic. This is also a girl that has been recently texting him outside of work about "work" things that are not something she needs to be texting him about especially when he's off work. Also they sat together with the rest of his coworkers at a meeting recently. He also sent an inappropriate text to this girl saying he had fun with her on a work shift and that he will see her Friday, referred to her as a "miss" and used a smiley face. When I got mad about it he told me that he had been helping her to get promoted and had been hard on her and didn't want her to be mad at him. What?! Also, he had mentioned she was the one who kept bugging him and he had no interest in being friends or anything. He also mentioned she had a boyfriend but when I just looked at her Facebook it says she is single.

So now with all of this information I really am thinking that he is at the very least talking to her and maybe having an affair im not sure. Before we separated yesterday he only went to work and home. Oh also since the previous separation I have been using teensafe to help monitor his phone so I would know if I can trust him. Well, he reset his phone today because it got too unorganized apparently. So now I can't monitor anything. I think that the real reason is he knew I wouldn't be able to anymore.

I obviously love him more than anything and want him back but I don't know about this girl situation. We have been together for 4 years married for 3 and have a 3 year old together. He is 23 turning 24 on Christmas and I am 22. Just in case any of that matters. So I'm needing some advice on where to go from here and what I should do about all of this. And if it sounds like there is an affair going on.

Thanks. I know this post Is a little disorganized but this just happened and there's a lot to remember.

It definitely sounds like he is having an affair with this women.

Can you afford a PI? They could get the information in a matter of days.

It depends. With everything going on he would notice if I withdrew any money. How much are we talking? And I would probably still want to stay with him regardless...but I just don't know until I know for sure.

But to be completely honest probably not. If he found out he would definitely be done I think.

Hi SS. The problem here is his philosophy of marriage. He would rather leave you than stop doing something that makes you unhappy. Your suffering means nothing to him. That approach to marriage is called the freeloaders approach and will never lead to a lasting marriage. In a healthy marriage, complaints are viewed as an opportunity for improvement. In a bad marriage, they are viewed as an irritation. In your case, your H expects you to just suck it up and then punishes you when you make complaints. That is the ticket to a miserable, incompatible marriage.

Check this out:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accommodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyer believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Rentersbelieve Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

I am going to give you an approach that will work better for you if you follow it. Your approach of chasing him and having no conditions makes you look unattractive and reinforces his bad behavior.

But first you have to understand that you have nothing to lose here. Your marriage is already over and it is just a matter of time before you get divorced. It will NEVER last with the problems you have. Your husband doesn't care about your feelings and has absolutely no boundaries around women. He drives you crazy with his opposite sex friendships and doesn't care. This is an affair waiting to happen. Sure, you might be able to successfully BEG that he come back, but it will only be on the condition that you shut up and never object to his shabby, thoughtless behavior. That is not a marriage, that is a hostage situation that won't ever last. You will be miserable.


Dr Harley would tell you that the basic problem is that your husband doesn't care for you.

So, lets start from that place and try a more strategic approach. One of the reasons your husband doesn't care is because you have lowered the bar so low by tolerating his crap treatment. When you tolerate his shabby behavior, you essentially reward him and train him to treat you like crap. You have also chased him, which makes you look even more unattractive.

That is where I would begin. I would raise the bar and make him pay a price to get back into the marriage. If he won't pay that price, [ie: change his behavior] you are headed to divorce anyway. But if you raise the bar and give him CONDITIONS to come back, you will give him motivation to come back.

Could you put aside your emotions and follow such a plan? I believe it is your best bet at ever having a marriage. You will never have a marriage with someone with a freeloaders approach, so I see this as your only change to turn him around.

Safetysuit,

I am about 7 months out from what you JUST Described. Your husband is definitely having an affair. My husband also pulled same stuff, "If you love me, you'll set me free", "you're controlling', etc. Yeah, he doesn't get how marriage works.

Please take Melody's advice. It will not get any better with begging and he may want to come back...but only without any real conditions and expectations. You'll find that that will not work for you in the long term.

x2

I too, have been the person "making it work" and it only got more painful for me. Please listen to the more experienced posters.

Dr Harley tends to see an abrupt separation as a red flag for an affair. He says he's nearly always right.

Men don't leave over a small spat like that. Unless it's a good opportunity to explore other options. I would hire a PI.

Interesting that he's been gaming a lot. Does he play online with people? We've seen a lot of affairs start that way.

Safe, if this is an affair, you'll find that his leaving is supposed to be your cue to know your place and ask for only half his time.

Women in affairs leave men in full, falling completely for the lover. Being more able to segregate their feelings, men tend to enjoy juggling. They only half leave. However since his mistress has low expectations of his time and has no standards, he wants more of that from you too.

You'd be a fool to, of course. Snoop and destroy.

Whoa. I just realized that my topic had been moved, so sorry for my late reply. This is a lot to take in..but, I know it's easy to look from the outside and think that's the case. And it may be. But there's really no way for you to know for sure, I don't even know for sure. I don't believe that my husband just doesn't care about or love me. I'm not being in denial. I think love and relationships are very complicated and I could never say whether someone really loves someone else. But it is a lot to think about. He has been texting me today worried about our son and thinking that he is "taking away the dad that he loves". I have been trying to point out that it's safe to come back and that things can be worked on. He has worked on things and made good progress before but then stops at other times.

I am unsure of the point of this statement since its not relevant to the issue at hand. And relationships are really not complicated at all. The path to a great relationship is truly very simple and straight forward. I know you don't know this, but take it from an experienced standpoint, its not as fuzzy as you seem to think.

I spent a lot of time [time that I could not really afford] writing those posts and thinking about your situation today. I would appreciate a response.

Sorry. I'm not sure that making him do things to come back would be a good idea. That would just make him not come back. From his point of view I'm the one in the wrong and he hasn't done anything. I'm the horrible person who he just couldn't take anymore.

And my point was that you said he didn't care about me. I was saying I do not agree. I know he loves me or would've left a long time ago.

It is only a good idea if you want to stay married. Your marriage won't last if he doesn't do those things. If he won't come back on the basis that he has to show care and respect, then you don't have a marriage. All you have been doing is rewarding and encouraging horrible behavior on his part, while making yourself look terribly unattractive to him.


His actions reflect a complete lack of care. I think you are probably the least objective person on this thread and can't see what others can plainly see. I understand that is hard for you to accept.

Anyway, I gave you my best shot. It is your marriage to lose and your choice to reject the advice you get here. It is all the same to me. Best of luck to you.

I'm not rejecting it. It's just a lot to think about. He doesn't even want to come back at this point so I just don't understand how listing requirements would make him want to come back..

What about finding out who he is having an affair with?

Making him want to come back is not your job and should not be your goal.

Your goal should be to make him realize that if he wants to keep you he has to start showing care for you.

If he's not going to care for you, then that would be the right outcome. That would be a win for you.


That's okay - he can think whatever crazy thing he wants to think. There is no need to try to straighten him out about it. Just keep him away from you until he doesn't think crazy things like this, and don't let him say such crazy things to you. You don't want to be married to a lunatic.

The goal of the separation is to make you walk on eggshells. To settle for less care. I am sure he loves you but he wants you to do without care. He has literally moved that care away.

If he thinks you are a horrible person for wanting to come before computer games, you have a choice. Settle for being second best and wait for the marriage to die of resentment over the long term - or insist that he cares for you now.

You and I know that it isn't really about you. It's his behaviour that's changed and I'm afraid it does very strongly imply an affair. The process of demonizing the woman at home for no reason, but then reaching out with texts for reassurance that things won't change - we've all seen this. Just check it out. Then you'll know one way or another.

You are not being strategic. You would be surprised how he behaves when you stop chasing him and begging and behaving in such an unattractive manner. Men are turned off by women who chase them. As it is now, he believes you are an "option" and he can treat you however he wants and come back when the spirit moves him. That does not motivate him to change.

The goal is not to make him want to come back but to make him want to CHANGE. It shouldn't be to get him at any cost. If that is your goal, you will end up divorced. As it is now, you are on a slow path to divorce because your marriage won't ever survive with a relationship freeloader.

So what should I do now?

Will you hire a PI?

And this:
How to Plan B Correctly

Like I said we really can't afford that.

Also, looking at the Plan B I am not sure what the abbreviations used on it mean?

Here, Acronyms and Abbreviations

Have you checked his phone records for excessive phone calls/texting?

Yes there is nothing. Like I said I think he's talking to someone through Facebook and that is why he changed his password.

Low cost ways to confirm an affair:

1)Check out the Suspected OWs facebook and other social medi. It was pretty easy for me to figure things out just by looking at her social media. She never said anything directly about the affair, but her tumblr and facebook comfirmed everything indirectly. She is a bonfire narcissist so all of her posts about love and jealousy pretty much told me everything. She was in love and trying not to be jealous (because she was in love with a married man).

2) Accounts. Follow the money. Waywards
are dummies. It's so, so easy to see if someone is cheating by looking at accounts. My husband was taking her out on full blown dates with our joint account, taking out cash, etc.

3) tail him. Just follow him one night from wherever he is staying.

4) mutual friends/family. Reach out to people to confirm the affair. It was easy to do for me.

Sorry about the typos. My phone is on the fritz!

Okay thank you. But that is for people who know for sure an affair is going on. I think at the most this is just him talking to someone. Like I said the only places he ever is is work and home. Work is verified with the employee login I have access to and can see if he is not there. There is no way a physical affair has been going on unless it just started since he left, which I doubt either because we only have one vehicle and have been having to swap it a lot and also the rest of the time I can see him online playing his video games and specific things he's doing.

Safetysuit, I sure wish I had known about MarriageBuilders many years ago when our marriage looked a lot like yours does now. You are getting some excellent guidance from folks who know Dr. Harley's principles for a great marriage very well.

I've been married now for over 34 years, but only the past four years have been really great. We are crazy in love with each other. It is very apparent to each of us that the other is deeply in love. Not only that, it is obvious to people who see us that we are in love with each other, because many, even strangers, have approached us to comment on that.

Why am I telling you this? Because I was in a marriage just like yours. I had a husband who was independent; he played video games, he was flirtatious with women (but not with me,) he was rude and disrespectful to me, he masturbated - basically I became irrelevant as a wife and was pretty much just his housekeeper and administrator. Nothing I tried helped and actually as time went on, and I continued to put up with his uncaring behavior, (due to my own fear of leaving and misplaced Christian principles) he only became more entitled and even less caring.

It wasn't until after my husband had his second affair and, thankfully, I found MB, that I decided it was time to set my own conditions for recovery. If my H didn't want to be married to me, I was going to have to be okay with that. I didn't plead with him to stay; I simply told him that once he divorced he would never see me again. Later, when he told me he wanted to be married to me, I set my conditions of recovery on an MB marriage. It wasn't going to be a repeat of the years before, which was basically a loveless marriage.

These last four years, my H has become a really terrific man. Not only has he improved himself for me, but others around him really respect and admire him. It wouldn't have happened if I had agreed to put up with his uncaring behavior. Your conditions will actually help him grow into a mature man.

There really is nothing complicated about a great marriage; it's bad marriages that are complicated...and terribly depressing for women. I urge you to listen to the guidance you are receiving here. You don't want more years of an uncaring husband, do you?

That's okay. And piglet, there are no transactions on our bank account. We only have one joint and he had direct deposit into it and has not transferred any money. I get notifications daily or transactions and check often. And I am blocked out of his facebook.

[b]

This is a really big red flag, Safety! You need to find the funds to hire a PI and find out what your H is doing behind your back. Waywards can be very sneaky. But they can also be quite brazen, making evidence pretty easy to collect.

Welcome to MB

Do you and your H still do activities as a family? Does he come and go as he pleases into your house? Do you two still have sex?

That's just not possible. And no not since Tuesday we haven't done anything as a family except riding in the car together during exchanges. And he has only came back into the house to get the rest of his work clothes etc. So no. And no we do not.

It would be very odd and highly unlikely that your husband has been separated from you for several months and not interested in sex or some sort of female attention. He is not swapping recipes with that girl. He changed his passwords so you can not see what he is doing.

OW could have a car...there are a lot of ways to carry on a PA. Your H may not be having a PA but it is VERY possible for him to have one.

We haven't been separated for several months we have been separated since Tuesday... and yes possible I guess but I don't think it's likely. Either way I cannot afford a pi.

Gotcha. I thought you had been separated since March.

Do you have access to your husband's cell phone records?

SafetySuit,

You are in denial. Anytime he is trying to restrict access to any of his communications it is because he is hiding something. I thought the exact way you did. I thought it was MY FAULT for snooping and not trusting him...but he had started an emotional affair that then became a physical affair.

Listen: Even if he is "just talking to her"...he SHOULD NOT BE DOING THAT as a married man. That is hurtful to you. That shows he does not care about your feelings. Something is going on, whether or not is physical is sort of beside the point. He has left you, is not being honest with you, is carrying on a secret second life and does not care. The bottom line is that he is treating you as if you don't exist and as if your feelings don't matter. That is not a marriage.

Do not beg him to come back. Make clear your expectations in marriage. I am not sure if some of the more experienced posters would recommend Plan A for a few weeks or not, but if nothing changes within a month, you definitely would need to move into Plan B.

Write Dr. Harley and/or listen to Melody, Black_Raven, Jedi, Indie, etc. They know what they are talking about.

Do you know who it is he's talking to through Facebook?

Dr. Harley recommends BWs to only be in Plan A for 2-3 weeks. After a maximum of 3 weeks to go into Plan B, due to health concerns for the BW.

I know the girl I think he's talking to on Facebook. And he did reset his phone and said that's why he had to change passwords. I'm not denying that he could be doing it, but one of our problems is Me accusing him of things like this all the time.

You have a right to ask for information and reassurance.

My sbxH made me feel bad all the time about asking. It is a way to put you on the defensive. It is okay to ask and get information!! *That* is how trust is built. He doesn't just get it for free.

Is the girl married? Have you checked her Facebook?

Have you seen this?
The Risk of Opposite-sex Friendships in Marriage

Yes I have checked it. It says she is single. Funny because he told me she had a boyfriend about a month ago.

Another red flag.

Does he drop you off and keep the car? Can you put a VAR in the vehicle and a GPS?

Maybe a var if there's a semi cheap one? I'm not sure

Hahahaha I was waiting for it to happen and look, it did. He has been texting this girl all night. Wow, I'm to my limit. If nothing else it clearly cannot be innocent.

Yup waywards are always dumb and sloppy.

Is this the same girl? How did you find out?

Yes and by checking phone records. He's been texting her for the last 3 hours while he was spending time with our son. Not sure if I should say something or what. I just asked him earlier when I saw him if we could do anything on this separation and he said no. Yet talks to her after all of this bs about not even being friends

Same girl because I know her number from when he was texting her about "work" before

Do you still have access to her Facebook?

Go to her contacts and copy her contact list and save it for exposure.

Have you read the exposure thread?

What do you mean her contacts? And I can only see what's public

Save a web archive or printout of all her contacts (her friend list). This is public. If she blocks you, you'll lose access to this. What you really need are the links to these people's profiles so you can message them. Also, grab a photo of her from her images in case you need it later.

Why do I need that? I'm not going to tell everyone she knows or anything like that. But what do I need to do now they have been talking nonstop through text all night not even trying to hide it. Clearly an interest there.

SS--The vets will be here soon, but the first thing you need to do is read about the Exposure 101 thread: (click on the following link). Your husband is having an affair--

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695379#Post2695379

Please read.

BW

You need to expose.

Have you read the Exposure thread?

I have no evidence though. Just that they have been texting but no content. And yes I just read it. Seems a little extreme when I have no evidence

That's why you have been advised to snoop quietly and gather evidence. Dr. Harley says that we should expose widely when the betrayed spouse has evidence that would convince a jury. But you will need to be proactive about looking.

The only way to do that would be to get the content of the texts which I have no way of doing. And I have no money for a pi so I guess I'm stuck

I called out my wife on her affair when I really only had her text records. It was enough that I knew she was having an affair. I bluffed my way to making her believe that I had more.

I actually accumulated more evidence during exposure due to the OM confessing to his family and one of them telling me about it in a FB message. I have since been able to find enough to convince anyone.

I'm not recommending the path I took.I just couldn't stand to not confront her anymore and I am a pro at bluffing.

But, if you slip up and confront before you should, remember to not show all your cards to the enemy at once. Make him think you have undeniable evidence even if you don't. When he asks to see it or what you have, tell him that it doesn't matter because you know about the affair and the proof cannot be unseen.

Are you still seeing him? When he picks up your child?

Is there anyway you can get spyware on his devices?

Have you checked her address and gone over there to see if he's there?

I would have no way of getting her address...anyway he going through with the divorce and they hsve now been dating for over a month. She's already living with him in his new apartment. They both claim nothing started until after he left

Hello all. I have posted in the "surviving an affair" category back at the end of November when my husband left me. I do not think there was anything besides thoughts in my husband's head going on before he actually left.

Anyway, he left on November 19th. I still love him so deeply, I do not want this divorce and right after it happened I tried everything I could think of to get him to stay. He wouldn't and said he wanted to be "alone" and then one week later he was with this girl. She is 6 years younger than him (she just turned 18) and he just turned 24. She is officially moving in with him at the end of January.

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on if a reconciliation will be or is possible considering he has now committed himself to someone else. Pretty ridiculous, how can one commit to someone when they are still committed to another by marriage?!

We also have a 3 year old son.

I have never missed anyone or anything so much in my entire life. I love him more than anything and want so much for our family to stay together, but I realize the chances of that now are slim to none. Ever since about the second week after he left, I have been only speaking with him about the business of the divorce. I have not initiated contact unless it is about that, and hardly even for that. I have let him contact me to discuss these things. I have not since mentioned anything about our relationship of reconciliation. We have not filed for divorce yet, it appears as though I will be the one having to do it, and we have not got our agreement completed yet.

He says he is happy with this new girl, but everything I can see points to it being a rebound relationship. He also said at the beginning that he 150% doesn't want to be with me and never will again. Is this really true or is there a chance he is just saying that? He has acted very angry and hostile towards me this whole time, which I find very strange because he is the one who left. I interpret that as some type of defense mechanism for convincing himself to go through with this and so he does not have to experience any of the pain of this horrible decision.

Is there any hope or is it for sure hopeless and time to move on? Anybody else with a similar experience? What was the outcome?

Did you fully expose the affair? Who did yo expose to on the OW's side?

You should be in Plan B. When will you be going into Plan B? Why haven't you followed MB?

If you know her age and know her name you could find out who she is. You have her number, correct? You need to expose on the OW's side.

You need to be in Plan B. Sitting around and not following the MB plans are going to make you miserable. You have to stop enabling him and his affair. You need to cut off contact with him.

The ALL claim that. It's a cliche. My WW told me the exact same thing, but her text messages prove otherwise.

Nothing happened before hand so there is no affair to expose. And it is on facebook and everyone already knows so it's already exposed

Well we know that's a lie. You're still married and he's having an affair.

Who did you expose to on OW's side? Did you expose to her parents? Her family? You need to ask her parents to put pressure on her to stop her affair with a married man.

When will you be going into Plan B? This continued contact you have with him and his continued cake eating is not healthy for you.

Have you read up on Plan B?

I had to refresh myself on Plan B. Just got done reading it. It will be pretty difficult to have NO contact, considering we are having a collaborative divorce, filing with only 1 lawyer. Our agreement is almost complete though.

How to Plan B Correctly

His parents don't see anything wrong with his affair?

How can a lawyer represent to opposing parties? If you don't want the divorce why are you going along with it?

Have you been to your doctor for some ADs?

I understand that technically it Is an affair at this point. They changed their relationship statuses and they are public, I have not exposed anything. That would create a lot of unnecessary drama difficulties for me, he would probably not agree to settle at all or out of court like we are now, and also knowing him that would only make me appear crazy.

Dr. Harley would call you an "enabler." There is nothing we can do to help someone who is actively enabling an affair.

His mother left him and his brothers when they were all 3 and younger. He only has his dad, uncle, grandmother (who raised them) and his brothers. They are not the classiest bunch of people...so no, they don't. And because of the occasional verbal abuse on my part, I'm unsure if he has spoke to them about that or not. He has probably made me out to be a horrible monster that he needed to escape from because of the misery. They don't pry into each others lives. They have the attitude of "whatever makes you happy". They all have a strange relationship with one another.

And one lawyer isn't representing us, but we are coming to an agreement on our own and I will be filing it with my lawyer.

I'm going along with it because at this point it appears as if it's going to happen. From speaking with my lawyer that would be the only way to protect myself at all legally. He's splitting everything up etc etc and I am getting screwed. And we have our son and need some type of custody and child support order in place, he is no longer supporting us. And there would be no order placed if no divorxe or legal separation is filed, because otherwise we are just still married.

And I have already been on AD, but actually I have been off of them since he left because I thought I might be pregnant. I have not started taking them again but I still have some. I have felt fine without them.

So then you just want the divorce to go through, correct?

Will you be going into a dark Plan b after the divorce? Will you be parallel parenting (the link is in the Plan B thread I posted to you)?

When does he see your 3yo? Does he take your child around the OW?

Can you move away?

Your actions do not reflect a person who "does not want a divorce" because you are "collaborating" in a divorce with him using HIS LAWYER. So either you do want a divorce or you are being foolish by contributing to your own demise.

If you don't want to lift a finger to save your marriage, that is fine with us, but why say you don't want a divorce when your actions are facilitating that very thing?

If you aren't interested in saving your marriage, then what do you want from us?

I just noticed this is in the divorce section, which is exactly where it belongs. When a BS is cooperating with a divorce and helping to cover up the affair, that is exactly where it belongs.

1) No, I do not want a divorce. But filing for it is the only way to at least somewhat protect myself legally, as it even says on the "How to Plan B correctly" link.

2) It is my lawyer. He has not even met this person and is too dumb to go and get his own, and also claims he cannot even afford money to file.

3) As of right now, I have told him he can come see our child any time he likes at our apartment. But he cannot take him anywhere because he would and has said he would take the child around OW. Which would be completely inappropriate and confusing to the child. I have told him once we got our agreement finalized and filed, then he could take the child around the OW.

He has only seen our child a number of times. Apparently if he can't take the child to his new apartment to be around the OW, then he's not interested.

It's not being covered up when it is on a public forum already, notified to all of their family and friends, also they work together and have already signed the appropriate papers stating to the employer that they are in a romantic relationship.

Listen, you cant say you dont want to get divorced while at the same time refusing to fight for your marriage.
You should expose this irregardless of wether you get divorced or not.

I'm not understanding how it is not exposed already.

Yes, and the story to others is being spun by the adulterers: "Safetysuit and I have broken up and are getting divorced. Meet my new girlfriend, Sallyslut!"

So, as far as everyone knows - due to your complicity - you and your H broke up and he has a new relationship.

When the truth is this: "Joe has been having an affair for XXX months and has left me for Sally Slut."

Your silence just enables him and OW to get everyone on board with his affair. If you exposed the affair, you could many people to support your marriage. But all of your actions - including your silence, reflect a lady who is DONE with her marriage.

Because you're not asking people to put pressure on ending the affair. It's just the rumour mill that's being told. No one knows you want to save your marriage because you haven't sent the exposure messages. Your silence is ending your marriage.

And if it is in fact true that it didn't start until after he left? Then what?

YOU ARE NOT IN PLAN B. Apparently you do want a divorce because you are not fighting for your marriage. NOR ARE YOU IN PLAN B. You haven't even done Plan A. Yu have done "Plan Hand my husband over to his OW."

You are joking, right?

Yes, the true facts are being covered up and you are enabling it.

You're going to allow him taking your DS3 around his OW? Have you even stated to your lawyer you want it written in that he can't take him around OW? What state are you in?

I am in Oklahoma. And yes, we would have to go to court over that issue and by the time that happened the period of time will have passed that I would actually win that issue.

And no, of course I don't want to. But legally there is nothing that I can do. And besides, I have no one to go litigate everything anyway.

And does it not matter the things he has said and apparently the way he feels? If there is no hope for this then why go through all of the trouble. He said to me after he left that he's been miserable our whole relationship, he wants nothing to do with me for the rest of our lives, he does not want to be with me nor will he ever again..he will never allow himself to be with me again, he doesn't love me and never did, he was never happy not even for a single moment, etc etc. Which I don't even believe any of that anyway, but if that's how he thinks he feels it doesn't sound like anything will change

There's a reason they all claim that.

Shame!

It's also why affairs don't survive exposure.

Why can't you locate her address? Is she in the secret service or are you hoping for magic solutions?

If you would have stayed around MB and educated by reading and listening to the advice, you would've found that ALL waywards rewrite history and they lie.

Like MelodyLane has said that your enabling of the affair and not killing the affair lead you to right where you're at, heading for divorce.

You can put a GPS on his car. You can google her name and phone number. You can follow him.

You sound defeated. I know that feeling so well. Don't give up! This is not over yet unless you want it to be! Follow the advice of the veterans to the letter.

Also, Dr Harley recommends considering antidepressants for a short time to get you through this. That has helped me immensely.

Then his confession is all the evidence you need. He's divorcing you for his live in mistress

No, it doesn't matter. The reason is because he is fogged out and high on an affair. The affair has clouded his thinking.

I think what has happened here is that your husband has always pisspoor boundaries around other women and has been trolling for action for a long time. This has been a sore spot with you [naturally] and you reacted with anger. He has used your reaction against you to justify cheating on you and leaving you.

It might be in your best interest to get divorced because it seems his philosophy of marriage is warped. He believes it is ok to have friends of the opposite sex.

I agree. His long history of trolling for women hasn't changed.

Protect yourself from his continued abuse and go and stay into Plan B even after your divorce. You deserve so much more.

Have you read this? Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Yes, I would say he is definitely a renter. His word when he married me clearly meant nothing. He lied to me on a daily basis. The night before he left me we were discussing the fact that we were looking for a house, he said he was 150% sure he still wanted to be with me for the rest of our lives. I don't want a divorce ideally and I do love him and would do anything if I knew it would improve the marriage, but maybe I'm putting him on a pedestal because of my feelings and how much I miss him...

Do you commonly see these types of relationships ending quickly or do they sometimes last?

Dr. Harley says most affairs die a natural death within 2 years.

MelodyLane told you in your first thread that he was a freeloader.

I recommend that you re-read your first thread.

This affair is not your biggest problem. Even if this affair ended today, your WH has not demonstrated much care for you and the issue has been compounded with your setting the bar so low and enabling such behavior.

You realize this? Yes?

Sad (for you and also for the people that invested a lot of time posting to you) that you disappeared for a couple of months and much of the advice on this thread was dismissed.

This thread is a good example of what not to do for any BS!

Wow, I am supposed to be getting ready to head out and I just spent the last 10 mins skimming through all of your threads....

Sorry, Safetysuit, but this may be one of the worst cases of denial I have seen on these forums in a while.

Red flags were raised in all of your threads about your H's behavior...and as far as I can tell ALL advice was dismissed. All of it. I really don't see where you implemented MB anywhere.

MB can still help you (a) in divorce and personal recovery and (b) in the small chance that your WH tries to get you to meet his ENs so that you don't get sucked back into this mess ALL over again.

But the first step is to stop being in denial and second step is to stop being terrified of upsetting your WH.

It IS textbook cheating husband.

A rare one (and certainly few OWs) would say they started a romantic, sexual relationship with H was still living at home with his wife and kid.

Fact is.....most likely that they were dating and having sex before he abruptly left you.

Now. Though that hurts....it is not uniquely due to you as a woman. It is the nature of infedelity and betrayel. It sucks.

You CAN divorce him and move on and find another man. You can also take this one back should he ever step up to the plate to make ammends to you.

Work on your flaws meanwhile so you are in a good place for yourself and your child.

Absolutely!

Safety, if you knew that you could fight and WIN...then would you want to stay married or call it quits?

x2000! This IS what the world will believe!

Before I found MB, I didn't really want a divorce, but I had sucked it up buttercup and swallowed my H's gaslighting for so long that it felt like it may be somehow EASIER to move on with my life and let the chips fall where they may.

Once I came here and saw hope, I fought the fight of my life, and I had the threads of others before me to read and keep me going (and thank you God that I kept going).

My H was one of the "hopeless" ones, with years and YEARS of no boundaries. He is not the same man today. I am not the same woman today either.

Recovery STARTED once I grew the guts to expose properly.

If it's embarrassment causing your vacillation, I get it. Hit in the solar plexus and deer in the headlights. But people here on your thread WILL help you the whole way through exposure and also through the fallout afterwards that you seem to be expecting.

Please just explain one thing to us...if you are wanting to stay married, and yet willing to walk away from your marriage without a fight...just WHY or WHAT are you so afraid of if your H gets "angry" at exposure? WHAT do you have to lose?

This is ludicrous. No one leaves a warm bed for a cold one and then miraculously stumbles on a relationship serious enough to live together nanoseconds later. Everyone is onto them, wondering why you are condoning this and probably suspect you either don't care or had an open marriage

People are willing to show disgust, shock and support for your pain - but you have to speak out.

No one is going to speak out if you are too complacent to do so yourself.



People in affairs are very foggy and stupid. They think everyone is buying their lame story. They've worked so hard to get their betrayed spouse to believe nonsense they think the world will too!

Sadly your silence is very convincing to others.

However you are the only non wrong doer. The one who can speak truth simply and let the obvious facts speak for themselves.

Once it is made obvious to them that everyone is sniggering and sneering, exposure triggers that sense of inner shame.

It's your job to do this. Currently you are the affair's hind leg. It's third stool leg. You are the one who decides how the world sees it.

It's common for men to remain in love and feel that love entirely for whoever he is with at the time. Men separate their lives better than women.

This is why OW has pressured him to move out. She is far more aware than you are.

My husband literally said EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of those things, and worse. A little more than a year later we are in recovery and he regrets all of those things he said. I PROMISE you, he is in a fog, and those things aren't true, he just thinks they are.

All waywards say the exact same things. This thread I created pretty much goes over the script.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2549782&page=1

Usually when a BS feels she is very confused the problem can be easily solved by NOT listening to the "feelings" of a proven liar!

"I love you" is a lie from a cheating man and so is "I don't love you". The only thing worth talking about is the truth - and the only people worth taking to are the ones who don't know!

I am particularly concerned for this poster's little daughter. The poor child has years of misery ahead as her mother is lied to and beaten down. Nothing is being done to fight off the would-be stepmother who will be going for the child next, after destroying the mother.

A good friend of mine had a similar experience from the ages of 5-19 because her mother did not know about exposure.

He father was clueless throughout and when he divorced the step-monster he said "I've had to divorce J, even though I know you love her"

Friend (who had no idea she was ever a mistress) said "Are you kidding? I hate her and I don't know why she has always hated me. Maybe now you can tell me why."

It was because mistresses are smart and they know they are the shameful secret. They are only a temporary, albeit obssessive, addiction - they know that the man always craves returning to his family.