I'll keep it short. It's a story that plays out over and over again in this country. Wife had emotional needs needs not being met so she went outside the marriage and had an affair. So here I am.

The good news: She says she loves me and wants to rebuild. I brought up separating but she said we cannot work on the marriage while apart.

The bad news: Other than small talk around the house and raising our two kids in diapers, she wants to be "left alone." She feels no connection with me and feels nothing when we touch or hug. As you can imagine this makes the shock and pain of the affair even worse. She says she doesn't know where to begin to rebuild.

I fell into the trap of showering her with gifts, notes and flowers to make up for all the times I should have done that, and it just pushed her away further.

We're in counseling now and have established clear rules at least for the next few weeks. Dated for 2 years, now married 4 years and the one person I love more than anything in the world and the person I want to run to for comfort wants distance. Hard to give distance when it was one of the things that got us in trouble in the first place.

Advice? Thoughts?

Sorry for your pain...

How did your wife meet the OM? Is she still working or in any other way in contact with him?

Here's what needs to happen to end the affair and start recovery:

Also, your wife had an affair because she has poor boundaries around the opposite sex, not simply because her emotional needs were not being met. Once we get married, we each need to close our love banks to opposite sex, because it's very easy to get into an affair.

Dr. Harley often states that although there are reasons for an affair, there is never an excuse.

She had an affair because she didn't protect herself and her emotions, not because her needs weren't being met.

You not meeting her needs might have made it easier for her, but it's really all on her personal boundaries (lack of, rather).

Continue to be nice to her and doing nice things, it won't really push her away. You might back off the flowers and gifts as it can seem as if you are only doing it to apologize. Make consistent, thoughtful, caring actions and keep doing it.

Has she ended the affair and told him she will and wants no more contact? If she has, she's in withdrawal from the affair addiction and you should suspect her to be distant. It's normal. I know it hurts, I'm in the EXACT same boat right now. If she hasn't ended the affair, she's in the addiction fog, and will still feel that way.

Every betrayed husband (BH) on these forums right now has had their wayward wife (WW) tell them that she feels no connection to us anymore. Mine won't even let me touch or hug her right now. It does hurt, a lot. We need to lead with our reason not our hearts right now. Do what we know is right, not how it feels and there is a very good chance that it will lead us back to the feelings that we want.

He was a neighbor. His wife, upon finding out, kicked him out of the house and he has not returned. Supposedly they are finally divorcing as he has done this to her multiple times with other women. She still lives in the house although we heard rumors she's moving too.

When my wife told me, she said it was over. Four day later I found an email exchange between them that was more than friendly. I demanded she write him an email ending all communication, which she did. As far as I know, no more exchanges have happened.

I get it - we weren't emotionally connected for a while, and she formed a connection with the OM. That can be hard to break. But I have stated very clearly that if more contact happens she needs to do what's morally and ethically right and stop violating the core of our marriage, so she can stop hurting me and let me do what's emotionally best for me.

I should also add that I found out 2 1/2 weeks ago so I am early in the process. And she's not talking to anyone about it which scares me - wants to keep it "between us." Anyone other than our marriage counselor, that is.

I have found comfort in discussing with a couple close friends.

Pay STRICT Attention to the EXPOSE Advice.

That is the 1st and Strongest portion that needs to be done.

LTL

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

Sir, please read this thread about how to expose and then come back after you have read it: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583&page=1

The OM's wife has told most of the neighborhood. My wife understandably does not want to go outside. How's that for exposure?

Not very good. When we speak of expsure, we mean it should be exposed BY YOU to your family and friends. Any children over age 4 should be told.

Someone else telling, is not You Exposing and pleading for their help to break up the affair.

Grow your own gonads.

Do what You can do to destroy the affair.

Get more intel from OM's Wife. She seems to have a set of balls, but do you know exactly what she told to them?

A letter works better than talking to most exposure contacts.

LTL

I had thought about that (contacting OM's wife). Problem is she may be very vindictive since her and my wife were "friends." Not sure what she tells me would be accurate. Plus my wife would just deny everything anyway. Oh and she lives ACROSS THE STREET...very toxic environment.

Did you read the thread I posted?

Yes

So when will you be exposing?

Who is on your list from your WW's side?
Your side?
OM's side?

The point of exposure is not to consider what other people (OMW) will think about the affair. You must inform OMW about what is going on.

The OMW in my case has many issues, I do not let her opinions or actions have any influence on what I have to do in order to try and save my marriage. I take her information with a grain of salt.

You did not create this "Toxic environment". Your wife and OM did. Telling the truth is never wrong.

Update - exposure complete. She is still in contact with OM. Didn't want to uproot 6 mo old and 2 1/2 yr old from our house so I left instead of asking her to leave. Really tired of being lied to. Staying with friends.

We each made appts with lawyers but cancelled after talking and agreeing to continue therapy but stay separated for a while. Remember it has only been 3 weeks since she revealed affair to me. God I hope someone here tells me that most WWs go through this, really don't want this to be it but am prepared for the worst. As it has only been one night apart I suppose I should should give the separation more time.

Pete.
Go back to your home

Pete: So sorry for the pain you are going through. You need to go back home, sit her down, and tell her you do not want to break up a family. <<<<EDIT>>>> and tell her you want the best, most wonderful marriage and you know following Dr. Harley rules will get you both to that point. Pete, she is addicted, so it's going to be rough. We will all help guide you through this. Does your wife have any gripes against you? What are they?

Pete,
Go back home, and don't leave again. That is a big mistake. Do you want the other man in your home? Do you want a judge to side with your wife because you abandoned your family?

How did you expose the affair? Who did you expose to? What did you say in your exposure letters?

GO HOME.

Exactly.

Never do anything to make the affair easier for the WW and OM. Also never weaken your legal standing. Your are at war.

Please read.
Men, Do Not Leave Your Home!!

All, thank you for the quick response. Quite frankly I thought a temporary separation was the only way - we need space. She knows how I feel - I desperately want to save the marriage and have expressed this endlessly in verbal and written words. All I get from her is comments about how expensive a divorce, how it would ruin her credit, how we have a beautiful home and kids, but nothing about really wanting to rebuild the marriage. I was so tired of having her put on a happy face while being lied to daily and having her put salt in my gaping wound. She needs to tell me she wants me back, I can't do all the work here. Pride took over and I physically could not be around her while that was going on behind my back. I need her to feel a little emotional jolt here - that I really may be gone for a while.

Confusing times. Headed home today to watch the kids while she is at therapy. Then who knows.

Who did you expose the affair to?

Welcome to MB

Did you talk to OMW?

We're you interested in saving your marriage? Just so you know, many judges view it as abandonment when a man leaves his family. And of course, you can't save a marriage if you are not there. Not sure what you mean by "getting space?" What does that mean exactly?

Did you expose the affair to the OMW?

Sir,
There is no hope for your marriage unless you FIRST move back home and THEN Expose the affair.

FYI: Adulterous women need "space" to have an affair so its convenient if they can talk their husband into leaving.
Sir, my wife also went to "therapy"...and you know what? It turned out the "therapy" was her meeting her affair partner while I was home with the kids!!

Pete, could you find some "space" in the garage or back yard? Why not just step outside if you feel a need for "space" and avoid moving out. Do you have room for yourself in the yard?

My wife had similar "therapy" appointments.

When I wouldn't move out she got angry with me. It was very difficult for her to see or talk to her boyfriend if I was home whenever she was.

Stay in the house. If you think that she would never accuse you of "abandonment" you are likely giving her too much credit. If you stand in the way of her drug(the other man), she may do many things that you never thought she was capable of.

My wife filed a ridiculous restraining order(RO) against me and tried to convince anyone who would listen that I was crazy and violent. Just to get me out of the house so she could more easily get her "fix".

The RO was a short term problem for me but abandonment will be very damaging to you in the long run.

I am going home tomorrow. She made it clear she wants me to come back. We had individual counseling sessions this week where the therapist presented a worksheet meant to help us set basic rules for living in the same house while we work on the marriage. I think we are in for a lengthy reconciliation process but am willing to try. It's incredibly strange to have to start over with the person I married - like a second bomb being dropped.

Is she still contacting OM?

It's possible that she, like anyone else, could delete all evidence before I see it. Knowing that, as long as she'll telling me there's no contact, how do I know for sure?

You would want to snoop. Does your "therapist" have a plan to save your marriage? I ask this because most therapists are not experienced or qualified to save marriages. If you want a step by step program to save your marriage, I would get the book Surviving an Affair along with the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love. You can also listen to the radio show every day for free.

Here is the checklist for recovery from an affair:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

This OM was a neighbor of yours who lives close, right? You and your wife need to get out of there. There must be no further contact EVER between the OM and your wife. Plus living there in the same neighborhood is going to be an everlasting trigger.

Transparency in marriage is essential, so you and your wife should share your passwords to everything.

Most therapists have no idea how to restore a marriage after infidelity, so most give very unhelpful, even destructive advice. Dr. Harley has forty years of experience helping couples recover a marriage after an affair. Recovery is a very narrow path with no margin for error. Dr. Harley always advises moving away from affair partners who live in the same vicinity.

OM's wife kicked him out and they're divorcing. OM's wife still lives in neighborhood but rumors are she's moving. If she does not, we'll have to consider moving.

Update - I am home and we have put down ground rules on how we can coexist and try to rebuild. Affair is over - I will monitor, but until I uncover something I believe that is it really over. Now on to us (me and my wife).

She admits she goes back on forth - one day she really wants to make it work, some days she does not. All goes back to the disconnect we experienced prior to the affair. I will work on meeting emotional needs, but I'm asking for advice as it's an incredibly strange position to be in to have to win over my own wife.

Without pressuring and maintaining a safe environment, how can I get her to really embrace rebuilding and stop having doubts?

Dr. Harley says that both betrayed husbands AND wayward husbands are in the position of having to win their wives back, if they want the marriage to recover.

Your wife will be in withdrawal and vacillate between wishing she had the romance of the affair and the logic of the marriage. You will need to reassure her that the recovery plan you plan to use will include BOTH logic AND romance.

Your wife will stop having doubts about the marriage once recovery has happened. Withdrawal often takes a few weeks, and Dr. Harley recommends antidepressants if one or both spouses become very depressed during this period of time. It need only be temporary.

Make sure that you have full transparency in your marriage. You and she should always be an open book.

Eliminate all your love busters and meet her ENs. What did she complain about in you before her affair? What did she want you to change? Work on those things.

You are getting really good advise from the vets here!

My 2 cents:

It sounds like its hard for you to directly experience your wife's ambivalence towards you and the marriage. Therefore go to your doctor and have him put you on an antidepressant for a short period of time.

Its very normal for a wayward to vasilate regarding the marriage. Its fog babble.

Its very normal for your wife to point fingers at betrayed husband as far as the reason she was compelled to have an affair. More fog babble. But since this is hard for you anyway that's why you'll need antidepressant to hold on during recovery. Of course the reason she had the affair was due to poor boundaries around opposite sex. Whether she owns it now or never does, this is the truth.

And its true, you are going to need to start over. The marriage you both had is over. There was a beginning, a middle and now an end. The affair ended what you once had. To go forward you will need to transform the relationship w/new habits and extraordinary precautions and more. In your prior marriage you and your wife likely leaned more heavily on certain roles and trusts and so on. Now your going to need to thoughtfully re-examine it all and see what to throw out and what to keep. And you likely will move out of your existing home. You'll figure out there will be too many triggers for both of you.

And don't be surprised if you find your in a false recovery at some point. You've already learned your wife has turned into an alien and has found herself addicted to scumbag.

I'm gone again. She wanted space and if I didn't leave, she was taking the kids and leaving. I don't want my kids uprooted and sleeping in a hotel room. I am working on me for the unforeseen future and doing what's best for my kids while I am away. It's going to take a lot to convince me to come back. I have tried everything at this point. Hopefully she holds our counseling session this Monday.

Peter,

Are you interested in following the program?

A husband who abandons like this is simply capitulating to allow OM to replace him. Do you understand that if she is still having her affair, she will fantasize over him as stepdaddy?

WOW!!! You just handed over you Wife, Children and Home to the POSOM on a Silver Platter.

How do you think you will like paying alimony and child support to your soon to be ex-wife, all while she has the POSOM move in and takes over your role as the day-to-day Daddy for your kids?

You can't fix a marriage if you are not there to try!!!

LTL

Thank you for moving out so the OM can replace you. The OM is very grateful, I am sure.

Now, do your clothes fit him?

Why would you even think about letting her take the kids to a hotel room. Does she have a court order giving her sole custody? The kids stay in the house and if she feels the need to go stay in a hotel room she can go do that.

ALONE.

What is your lawyer saying about her wanting to uproot the kids?

Well your wife is not a stable person right now. She is in the fog and not thinking with her brain. On the 19th you wrote that she had asked you to come back. And now she is asking your to leave again?

It is very bad judgement to put your future and the future of your children in the hands of a person who is as unstable as your wife. There is no law in any country that says that you have to cater to every whim a person in an affair happens to have.

Unless you have done things to majorly annoy her (have you?, read up on plan A and "love busters") and that is why she is asking you to leave you should not change the status quo. Your job is to be a grown-up, stable person, who will be a rock in this stormy sea. Why on earth would you allow her to take your children out in the cold shortly before Christmas? I surely hope that you are not in any way planning on paying for the facilities she needs for her affair (hotel room, cell phone, car, etc).

Of course she wants you out of the house for Christmas, because it will be high quality bonding time with POSOM neighbour in your house under your tree. The children will not be subjected to that. You will have to take a stance here. Don't retreat so fast. How is she going to have any respect for you if you are not the calm and strong man you should be?

Did you even take the time to read this?

I don't think many of you are really understanding what I am saying - IF I DIDN'T LEAVE, SHE WAS GOING TO TAKE THE KIDS OUT OF THE HOUSE AND LEAVE. If I had stood my ground and stayed, I could not have physically prevented her from leaving. There was no option for all of us to stay in the house.

Tell me, exactly, WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? I want my kids to be in their home, not in a hotel. OM is NOT moving in, TRUST ME. She wants me to come back for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day so we can spend it as a "family." Going over today to pick up kids and take them to the park.

SHE NEEDS PROFESSIONAL ONE-ON-ONE HELP, but I cannot FORCE her to see someone. We have our next couples therapy session tomorrow.

We do understand, you don't. YOU JUST FACILITATED THE AFFAIR BY LEAVING! If your wife did leave with the kids, she would be right back because she doesn't want to leave her home. It was just a RUSE to manipulate you into leaving so she can replace you.

You fell for it!! The OM thanks you for stepping aside.


What you are supposed to do is GO HOME. Stop being a WIMP and go home.

You are DELUSIONAL if you believe you are not being replaced by the OM.


What a waste of time. Going to marriage counseling when one spouse is in an affair is a DISASTER because counselors do not understand the FOG. As such, they tend to validate foggy notions. You are wrecking your marriage, Sir.

You are talking to people who have been through this and have SAVED THEIR MARRIAGES. If you don't grow some balls and start listening to the advice, you are not going to make it! You are in Plan PETE, which has been a disaster for you so far. You do not know what you are doing and are reacting EMOTIONALLY.

Can you put aside your emotions and follow a PLAN? If not, then I give this very little hope. You have to LISTEN and follow directions in order to save this.

GO HOME!

How can she physically prevent you from keeping the kids at home?

Don you not have the same parental rights as her? Are there domestic violence or other abuse charges against you?

She is a stay-at home mom, I work from home. During the week I cannot care for my kids during the day while working, so leaving the kids at home while she leaves simply doesn't work. No there are no charges against me.

GO HOME.

You've got to go home. Do you have family that can help you watch the kids? There are lots of options to hire someone to help you with the kids.

Since you work from home it would seem that you have great opportunities to break up the affair and plan A to out-affair the affair. If you want to save your marriage it will take a lot of hard work and drastic changes to your lifestyle. Be creative, there are ways that you can stay in your home. You are in a battle to save your family. You are at war with your fogged out wife and OM. Victory often goes to the the one willing to go to the most drastic lengths. Don't underestimate what WW is capable of in her current state. Don't hold back any effort you can possibly make. You can't kill an affair and win back your wife if you aren't there to do it.

There is not reason to worry about child care. Your wife isn't going to leave. And if she does, she will be right back. It is all a RUSE to get you out of the house so she can carry on her affair.

Just go home. Let her carry on. Just tell her you are sure sorry if she wants to leave.

Why oh why are men so gullible?

GO HOME!!!!

Oh yes she will. She already did once and used hotel points. And has more hotel points to burn. She was gone one night and I couldn't stand the thought of my 6 mo old and 2 1/2 year in a hotel away from all their toys and comforts of the house so I told her to come back. But the only way she came back is if I left, which I did.

Go home! She will come back. You need to stop allowing yourself to be manipulated.

You could have just gone and picked up your kids and brought them home without all this drama.

If I were placing bets on which strategy will be most effective, between your actions and Melody's advice, I would bet my bottom dollar on Melody's advice.

Can't save a marriage if you run like a coward every time your cheating wife cries "space, space!!!" Call her bluff. She doesn't want to go live in a hotel. She just wants to manipulate you.

Be a man, not a pathetic wimp!!!
You stay in that house, demand the kids stay as well.

Pretty harsh. Have you been in this situation?

YES!! Most of us have been there, done that. GO HOME!!

It will get much harder if you don't stop running away.

When are you going home?

Yes i was in this same situation, my ex demanded that i move out. She told me to be a man and move out, and a bunch of other wayward crap.
I told her no way, she wants to have an affair she can leave. I also remained in the marital bed, she slept in the office for 9 months.
Every attorney worth their salt will tell you not to leave unless you are court ordered.

Get a VAR and have it with you from now on. Waywards in an affair fog are dangerous and crazy.

Keep your children in the home. Hire help while you work. Stop being reactionary. Your wife is the one with poor boundaries around opposite sex not you or your children. Marriage therapist will listen to your wife's fog babble like it's real and you need to cater to it. They'll have you run here and there because you didn't do enough to make your wife happy. Ignored her while you worked or whatever. Sure this might be true but makes no sense focusing on your old life style when your wife is in the middle of the cruelest act towards another. If you are suckered so easily she'll cry foul over and over. This is totally nonsensical. We do know what you are dealing with. Your adding unnecessary drama and getting in your own way big time.

I suggest calling Steve Harley in the coaching center for help.

Why are men today such an embarrassment to their fathers and grandfathers? What happened to strong men?

He won't need to hire any help because the leaving thing is a RUSE to get him out. When she sees him holding his ground, she will come home with the kids.

I don't understand this. Who raised these boys to be so timid?

Exactly. She knows she can use the "I'm taking the kids and leaving so you better leave" game because he has done it and keeps doing it. He helps facilitate his WW's affair. She also uses those kids.

Peter,

Absent a court order, you have just as much legal rights to keeping the children at home with you, just like she does.

You are being set up. Each and every time YOU leave the home, it can be proven that YOU are the parent who abandoned the home and family.

You are acting in fear of tempory conflict, yet creating a bigger hurdle to overcome in the months to follow.

Just see how her version of these events gets tearfully spoken to the courts some day. "Boo Hoo, your Honor. Every time he gets mad, he just picks up and walks out on me and his children. He has left me trying to comfort their crying hearts, sobbing about what made their Daddy leave this time. Well, your Honor, I've tried everything but just can't keep it up any longer. I don't want this abusive man to ever have the chance to hurt me and my children again. Please, please help us."

That sounds pretty convincing if you keep following the path of least resistance that you have succumbed to so far.

LTL

yep. Judges do not look kindly on men who abandon their families!!

I'm back home and not leaving again. She originally said "come back Wednesday for Xmas Eve and Xmas Day" with no promises after that. But I'm not waiting.

Really taking everyone's comments to heart but keep in mind every situation is different. She actually opened the door slightly to the thought of me coming home today during our counseling session this morning. As I was already conflicted about coming home or staying away, I jumped on it. We set down some basic rules around the house and if she starts to feel insecure, we'll talk about what needs changing before she up and threatens to leave.

Keep in mind that you don't know what you are doing and we do. We have been through this thousands of times and you have not. We cannot help you if you won't follow the advice. Keep in mind that your best thinking got you to this terrible place.

You don't need and never needed your wife's "permission" to live in your own home. Leaving was a stupid, strategic mistake that could get you into legal trouble. Judges frown on men who abandon their families. And obviously, you can't save a marriage if you are running from the problem.

Do you believe that you need your wife's "permission" to live in your own home? Are you aware that she cannot LEGALLY throw you out of your home? And you can LEGALLY take your kids where you choose. That means if she left with them, you could go pick them up. She can't keep the kids away from you without a court order, and no judge is going to take children away from their father unless he is a proven child abuser.

Your wife is a co-equal PEER. She is not your momma, your boss, or a police official. You are a grown man who does not need permission to stay in his own house.

You need to END that counseling unless it is marriage builders concepts. Counselors typically don't know how to handle an affair, and will only enable the wayward and you will be holding a big bag of BLAME.

You are being manipulated. 99.9% of the affairs we see here are not unique or different. Your situation sounds just like almost any other we see here, (unless you are withholding something sinister). Just wait, posters here will tell you things she is going to say before she says it, and you will be amazed at the accuracy of the predictions.

I suggest you read up on the relevant threads here, like exposure, Plan A, snooping, etc.
Get a VAR, I predict as soon as the holidays are over, you will have caused her fear and her to "feel not safe".

You are on a crazy alternate reality carnival ride, you are going to have to be strong for your kids and your wife.

This has NEVER BEEN about keeping the kids away from each other. When I was gone I could come over whenever I wanted and see the kids/take the kids anywhere I wanted.

Now let's see if your expert advice works. If she leaves, so be it. If she takes the kids, well, I cannot physically take them out of her arms. What would happen then if she resists? Police are called? One of us goes to jail for the night? Is that what we want our 2 1/2 year old to see?

So, she could take the kids and I could then go see them whenever I want. Then we'll see if/when she wants to return home. But I hope it doesn't get to that point.

Keep you updated.

Oh I get it. No other counseling except MB works, huh? I think our counselor has been good for us. Time will tell.

Read hundreds or even thousands of other peoples affair stories and you will actually find out that they ALL are amazingly similar. Just the names and locations are different, but the behaviors and the ACTUAL Phrases that get used sre definitely from a Wayward Script that EVERY WAYWARD USES to some degree or another.

I'm glad you are back home.

Make Love Bank Deposits and DO NOT make any Love Busters.

Stay Home!!!

LTL

Most counselors just dabble in Marriage Counseling.

The emphasis on all of their training is DSMV Diagnostics and Treatment and getting the patient to individuate.

Even if/when they put on the Marriage Counselor Hat for one appointment, their training does not focus on an Integrated Marriage.

They have good intentions, yet statistically are worse for reconciling a marriage even if no counseling were undertaken.

LTL

P.S.
I am sure ML can post the article by Dr. Harley about how he discovered that none of the Marriage Counselors in the field were having any statistical success rate.

When you ABANDON your family for absolutely no good reason, you obviously cannot work on your marriage. I hope you understand that most judges seriously frown on MEN who run off and abandon their families.


No "expert" can force your wife to stay or leave. That is ridiculous. Nor do I claim to be an expert. The only person you can control here is YOURSELF, and as a MAN and a husband, you should not be abandoning your family.


That will be up to her, but you should not abandon your family to accommodate her affair. That is not what a loving, caring husband DOES. That is cowardly, uncaring behavior.

Pete
I acted the same way you did for 4 months, i didnt have a clue and didnt have marriage builders. I WISH that somebody would have slapped me in the head with a 2X4, it would have saved me and my kids immense amount of pain and suffering.

I tend to be very direct with betrayed husbands,(i was one), and i needed but did not get tough love. The concepts on here will work, not guaranteed, but at least you have a chance as this is action based.

Hope is not a strategy!

Marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. They have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. If your "counselor" gives you advice that is counter to Marriage Builders, it will not work. There are not several ways to save a marriage. It is a very narrow path that few people understand.

But you are free to accept or reject our advice. It is all the same to us. Most of us have already saved our marriages.

One more thing.....

When a spouse is involved in an Active Affair, either emotionally or physically, all of your Love Bank Deposits will not seem to be making a dent, but they do slowly build up until finally, one day they Burst to the surface.

There is a great analogy about tossing pepples into a lake.

Stop being so defensive towards people who have Been There -Done That and truly know much more about your circumstances that you do. You have tunnel vision blinders on right now.

LTL

I agree, emotions are high and a lot of this advice is hard to take and I am being objective. I do not know if the affair continues. She says it is over, and I have no evidence to suggest that it continues. OM is a predator and chronic adulterer who probably will not stop trying to contact her. I am being diligent without doing something extreme like hiring a PI, and I don't have any concrete evidence right now.

I should add that the advice we are giving you here is not our uneducated personal opinions, but the views of the website owner, clinical psychologist, Dr Bill Harley. He has specialized in infidelity for 40 years. And yes, he is an expert. He tells men not to leave their homes unless they are planning on going into Plan B. In your case, you should be in Plan A for quite some time.

So when you say that all situations are different, it begs the question of how you would KNOW that all situations require a different solution? You have no experience or professional background in resolving such problems, after all.

Why would hiring a PI be "extreme?" That would be the most effective way of getting the truth, so why would that be "extreme?"

It's true that events in your situation are shockingly similar to others. Someone posted a thread a while back about things that all wayward spouses say. I went through the list about a month ago and checked off almost all of them as things my wife has said, several of them verbatim.

Have you checked out any of the other BH's threads? Axslinger, nmwb, and pm have related numerous examples of how similarly their wives have acted through their affairs. When I first started reading other threads I couldn't believe how much these other WW's were just like mine. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

I have listened to the advice here and I am positive that by doing so I have given my marriage a far better chance than anything I would have done without it. It has also helped me stay above the wayward madness and keep my sanity intact.

Don't get upset at the "tough love". I got the same treatment when I wavered in the beginning. I still get it when I waver now. It's for your own good.

I made this statement not suggesting Pete leave his home.

I made this statement in the event his wife threatens to leave the home with the children to further her affair. Since he works at home he may need help if his wife leaves to pursue the affair. I'm not saying that's optimal, but if she threatens to leave and take the kids he can step up and say he will not allow the children to leave their home. He can be a stay at home Dad for awhile if need be and continue to get work done while a sitter comes over a few hours a day. Simply calling his WW bluff and being prepared and protective of the children.

Pete,

A difference between psychologist counselors and this MB coaching program:

Many psychologist see their job as helping people accommodate to what is. They will access and get a working diagnosis for the individuals in the relationship. They will help you manage life with your working diagnosis just as a medical doctor helps a diabetic. In your case you are thus accommodating to wayward behavior and fog babble. The affair is pretty much off the table or a footnote in the assessment and plan to 'help.'

MB coaching expands your notion of what can be. You can learn to have an interdependent relationship very quickly. It won't take years of therapy and going backwards looking at the past. No one runs scared as you are today. Coaching would tell you there is little that can be done for your marriage while the affair is active and would not waste your money. Coaching would direct you to not enable and direct you towards actions that help end the affair and keep it from coming back.

I personally know this program is powerful medicine to a marriage.

Please listen to these clips.

Beware of Bad Counselors

Get a PI. Having an affair is extreme. Hiring a PI is due diligence on your part. You cannot fight this battle without the truth, and your wife is not going to tell you the truth. Period.

There's no do-overs in this game you've now found yourself in the middle of. People around you will act like you're being hypervigilant but most of them have zero experience with a situation like this and have no idea what they are talking about. Been there, done that.

We are both home and mutually agree to work on the marriage. My struggle now is the mood swings which I am trying not to react to each time. Loving one hour and icy cold the next. It has now been exactly one month since D-Day. She's in our bedroom, I'm in the guest bedroom. She knows I want us back in the same bed but she won't have it for now.

Typical? I'd have to guess yes since it's so early.

Also, she says it's over with OM and I have no proof to suggest otherwise. I do have OM's phone number and was given some advice today to send a simple text stating not to contact my wife again. Good idea? I would leave any threats out of the message for fear of evidence.

Has she written OM a no contact letter?

I don't think that texting OM will do you much good. You have the right idea about not using any threats if you do text him though.

Yes but he kept trying to contact her and eventually she responded, although she claims it was innocent.

What snooping techniques have you implemented to find out the truth?

A VAR attached with Velcro under her car seat?

A VAR in the bedroom where she can talk and text privately?

Computer keylogging software on the home computer?

A SIM Card Reader to pick up deleted texts?

Spyware on her cell phone?

A GPS Tracking device on her car?

Only then will you know if she has truly gone No Contact. You already have admission of ONE contact. It's probably been much moren. If a Wayward says 1 or 2 times, it means plenty more.

Have you exposed to both his and hers/your family and friends requesting help? You already have her admission. Maybe you should get advice on How Much Evidence You Need.

LTL

SNOOP, SNOOP, SNOOP- gather your evidence, then expose

Since you haven't exposed you are crippled with fear, doubt and pain.

She is having mood swings because of- 1. she is in withdrawl(doubtful), 2. She is still in contact and sometimes getting her fix
You moving back in has cramped her affair and she doesn't like it.

The VAR in the car is how I finally confirmed by ex's disgusting affair.

Exposure already completed. What is a VAR?

Voice activated recorder, smaller than a cell phone and about $60

Voice activated recorder.

You have been a caretaker to your wife in terms of being a provider for your family.

These days you need to put on your armor and be a defender/warrior to your marriage. This is your calling right now.

Check out the Operation Investigate forum. The intel you are going to gather with stealth devices will help you know who, what where and how your marriage is being attacked. You cannot get this information from your wife.

Don't worry about the 'why's' coming from your wife. Right now she is keeping her options open while she see's how things go with you. Its this act of leaving her options open and giving you half truths that will NOT allow your marriage to go forward. She's not going to help create an environment that will encourage you. Intentions are not the same as actions.

You were never clear about your exposure, - did you expose to your family, her family, parents, clergy, other circle of friends, etc. You only talked about the neighborhood exposure.

Sure appears to me that she has not cut off contact, it may have gone underground(burner phone, secret email acct., chat app, etc)
You need to SNOOP.

YES - exposed in all the ways you mention above.

I want to move past the OM and exposure for a minute. I'm snooping, have exposed, but no evidence to be found. Have to assume the best until I find something. So for the time being...

...again, a month after D-Day, living in same house (separate bedrooms) and are working to rebuild. Two kids in diapers. How long can I expect this hot/cold treatment to last? If her connection with me was lost steadily over the past year and she had an emotional connection to the OM, I get that it will be hard to reconnect immediately with me (I don't AGREE with it, but I have to ACCEPT it). I am eliminating the LBs and working to meet her ENs which she has identified.

There is no formula to determine duration of the wayward fog or withdrawl, other than it will never disapate as long as she has contact(hence the need to snoop and/or transparency).

She appears to not be serious about working on the rebuild with the threats, separate bedrooms, forcing you to leave, etc - those all smell like ON GOING CONTACT.

She never forced me to leave. She said she would leave with the kids, and I said I'd go in an effort to keep the kids in the house. Mistake in hindsight, and I have returned home not to leave again.

The bedroom thing started a while back - before the affair, she got in the habit of getting up in the night with our infant and soothing her in the guest bedroom, then falling asleep. She was then, like now, a stay at home mom and I was working so she always said "you need a good night's sleep." At the time I appreciated it, but this REALLY hurt the relationship and contributed to the enabling of the affair. Should have put a stop to it.

I do think that for us to just hop back in the same bed after the storm of emotions from the past month is unrealistic. I am steadily working to make this a reality again.

What sort of snooping methods are you using?

You are demonstrating betrayal blindness. This means the betrayal is right directly in front of you---- but you still can't see. In other words you are yet in a betrayal fog. Here's what you need to do:

1. Plan A your wife.
2. Ignore her fog babble.
3. No LB-ers
4. Snoop with devices i.e. VAR in car and bedroom, GPS in car, key logger on computer and so on.
5. come here w/evidence and we'll help you.
6. Listen to MB radio together everyday.
7. Have your wife write and (you send after your approval) a no-contact letter to other man. See MelodyLane's postings for examples.

This is what a modern warrior does to actively defend his borders and boundaries.

Where can I find info on how to Plan A my wife?

Did you read the "Start Here First" thread?

It's stuck at the top of the Surviving an Affair forum list. Great info.

"The Carrot and Stick of Plan A" thread is pretty good.

Did you read the book "Surviving an Affair"?

Also, brainstorm ideas and ask this forum for advice,

She's gone. Took the kids and left while I was out of the house temporarily. Prepared to call my lawyer if I can't see the kids over the weekend.

She's lost. Told her she needs to seek counseling today. I myself am tired of working on the relationship alone.

Why were you out of the house?

I ran an errand.

Just hang tight and don't panic! She is testing you to see if she can run you out of the house again. Hold your ground and wait for her to come home.. Don't make any agreements to leave again. She will get homesick and come home.

Why would you not call your lawyer anyway?

That might be a dumb question, maybe I'm missing something.

This does not sound like you were running an errand.

Did you leave to Give Her Space again?

LTL

No. She said she was going to the mall and took the kids. While gone, I left a note saying I was out and for her to text me when she got home. Before I got home I got a text saying she was in a hotel with the kids.

This is why you hire a lawyer.

I agree, get an attorney. Regardless of what happens next, no disrespectful judgements or angry outbursts or love busters.
You need to be calm and cool in this storm that you are going through. It will take all your strength.
Stay in the house, she will have a lot of explaining to do if it goes to court.
She is testing you and acting like a 5 year old petulant child.

Have you been documenting everything?

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

Monitoring and finding little inconsistencies here in her stories and there but nothing huge yet, and nothing to suggest the affair is ongoing. She gets extremely defensive when she knows I look at her stuff.

Fighting the fog is wearing me out. A few positive signs here and there but mostly just hurtful comments coming from her. We're both in the house with the kids (separate bedrooms) and I've made it clear I'm not leaving. She took off Friday night with the kids and did not return until Sat morning, saying she was coming home to stay and loves me more than anything in the world. I made it clear that leaving under false pretenses, then staying away all night is unacceptable and CAN'T happen again (without threatening legal measures).

Seeing a lawyer would be a big step financially and I'm not ready to do that yet. WW and I talked this morning and tried to hit the reset button (again) and work on the marriage slowly, but she's got an AWFUL long way to go to buy into the marriage again I'm afraid.

I've made it clear I'm all-in but I can't put up with her nonsense forever. Also made it clear she needs to see a counselor one-on-one but I can't physically make her do it. When I'm away from the house for short periods (not overnight, just around town stuff) - she says she misses me but only the IDEA of us - the way we were but our marriage had issues which led to the affair. Then when I'm home, she doesn't want me around.

She should not KNOW that you are snooping. Otherwise, it will be easier for her to hide. The fact that she is hiding something tells me she has something to HIDE. But you need to be more strategic about your snooping.


OMG. Going to a "counselor" will very likely spell the end for you. The goal of a counselor is to help the client achieve personal desires. And what does your WW want?? She wants you gone so she can replace you. The counselor will help her do that. Please stop talking about a "counselor" and focus on saving your marriage.

It doesn't sound like you are a very pleasant person to be around. I see a lot of lecturing and disrespectful judgments in your posts. Are you more or LESS pleasant than the OM? Do you think the OM lectures her?

I come on this board to vent primarily but have been doing my best around the house to create a calm environment. It's been 5 weeks since D-Day, so I'm dealing with a lot of emotions around the affair, her disconnect with me (that I only recently found out), and trying to rebuild. I think I have come a long way but have a ways to go.

Your counselor comment - she has experienced a lot of infidelity in her life through her parents and her first marriage. If she doesn't get that sorted out in her head, our marriage is done and she will likely move on to the next marriage (with partial custody of my kids) and destroy that one too. If she refuses to talk to ME about it, who WILL she talk to about it?

A counselor will not help her get that "sorted out" as you imagine. The counselor will help her achieve her goals, which is to pursue her affair and replace you. She is very foggy so her desires are based on a temporary fog. A counselor has no earthly idea of this dynamic and will only serve to validate the fog.

She does not need to "talk about it." She needs to end her affair and come back to the marriage. That is what we are trying to help you with.

I am not sure where you got the idea that a counselor could help in a situation like this?

I have often seen it said that happy marriage do not experience infidelity. If you and her can follow Dr.Harley's plan and create a romantic, loving marriage by meeting each other's most important emotional needs and utilizing extraordinary precautions, her past issues with infidelity should not be a problem.

Focus on creating a happy future. Don't dwell on the past.

Incorrect. Maybe at the time that the Cheating Spouse makes the decusion to move further forward, at THAT time, the marriage will for certain be rewritten as unhappy and even emotionally abusive, blah, blah, blah.....

But, what causes the potential for infidelity is allowing a person besides your spouse to meet and fulfill some of your emotional needs.

It all comes down to boundaries.

LTL

The MB forums are not here for "venting". We are about helping you in applying Dr. Harley's proven techniques to save your marriage. What would you rather have? A feel-good audience that leaves you with your problems, or an audience of experienced individuals who have *solved* these problems in their own marriages? If you are serious about recovering your marriage, then you are going to have to put your instinctive reactions aside and start working hard to be attractive to your WW.

LTL is right. My marriage was quite happy right up to my wife's affair. She didn't guard her love bank. Her boss at work was able to make enough love bank deposits. That's all it took. Happy marriages can have affairs if either spouse fails to guard their love bank from outside threats.

I apologize. I misspoke (mis-typed?). My wording is indeed incorrect. I know that I have read something to that effect from one of Dr.Harley's books but now that it is pointed out I am sure he did not say "happy". I can't recall the exact phrase but I think it was something more along the lines of a "loving" or "romantic" marriage. I also feel dumb for not mentioning the poor boundaries issue specifically. I guess I consider it covered by EPs.

I am all too familiar with having a wife who has poor boundaries around the opposite sex.

Thank you for pointing out my error.

Been there and can tell you Melody is spot on with what she is telling you. You see your wife's thinking as "broken" and assume a counselor can "fix" her. It sounds good in theory, but not in practice. The counselor will work with her as an individual but in terms of the marriage, the counselor will only help her work towards the goals she lays out(and hopefully not influence her choices with subjective bias). You assume the counselor will talk sense to her, tell her how bad the affair was, and how she needs to repair her marriage. Individual counseling does not work that way and saving your marriage will be the last thing on the counselor's agenda. Heck, most marriage counselors don't work that way. Difficult to comprehend initially, I know. Was hard for me to grasp at first also.

Have you listened to the clips in here?
Beware of Bad Counselors

Three things need to happen here:

1) Your wife needs to send a no contact letter to the other man. You will find samples here: http://bit.ly/1D3CLHA

2) You must next begin the process of recovery and rebuilding your marriage. She must agree to extraordinary precautions. See the checklist on the first page of this thread posted by LongWayFromHome. This will make you feel safe and help you to move forward with confidence.

3) You and your wife need to spend quality time together. Dr. Harley suggests a long vacation with only the two of you. I don't know if that's possible, but if it is it will help her to move past the withdrawal phase more quickly.

3A) In addition to the vacation, it is critical that you spend at least 20 hours of time together giving each other your undivided attention, and meeting each other's emotional needs. When couples do this THEY FALL BACK IN LOVE.

If you can your wife on board with this, you have a great chance of fixing this.

Update. Been in the house together for a while and I have no plans to leave. Still separate bedrooms which I can't do much about. If I march in and lay next to her, she'll just got to the couch.

Eliminating LBs and focusing on EMs. Affair is over so please don't ask me about that - just trust me. Now the agonizing process of rebuilding begins. When she does look at me it's with a cold stare. She feels lonely and completely disconnected. All I can do at this point is follow the advice from this site and hope the ice melts soon.

Has she written a no contact letter to OM?

Has she agreed to extraordinary precautions?

How much UA time are you getting?

Yes

Yes

Very little. She doesn't want to be around me unless we're with the kids.

What is the list of EPs she has agreed to? Can you list them out?

Aside from not enough UA, it sounds like things are heading in the right direction. The UA time is extremely important though.

How long has she had no contact with OM?

WW says only sticking around as divorce is too expensive. Advice? I'm thinking I schedule a legal consultation ASAP as she'll do the same as soon as she finds the money.

Why would she agree to EPs if she was just biding her time waiting to divorce?

I wouldn't put too much weight on what she says. Lots of attorney's will do consultations for free. I'm not sure that filing for divorce is even that expensive if she really wants to do it.

You might consider having a consultation yourself but I would not let WW know about it.

WW now seems committed to ending the marriage. Found evidence that she's been frequenting the mother's house of the OM, where the OM was staying when OM's wife threw him out of the house. Even brought my kids over there for overnight visits while telling me they were elsewhere. But even before I found that evidence she said she would have already gone to a lawyer if it weren't so expensive.

We are in the same house now and although she threatened to leave, she hasn't yet. I told her I'm not leaving under any circumstances. She seems to be looking to me for guidance on how to proceed with divorce procedures without spending a lot of $. Keep in mind we are a single income household (I work full time, she is a stay at home mom). I told her that this is something she wants, not me, and she needs to figure it out on her own, then come back to me with a plan if ending the marriage is what she really wants. I was busting my butt to meet her EMs and end the LBs, but at this point I myself am starting to check out mentally. While I want to think there's hope, I don't see the point if she makes no moves to stay together.

Because she's been so deceitful both before and after she told me about the affair, I have little trust that she'll be fair or of sound mind if the two of us get a family law "joint" lawyer or file on our own without legal representation. Therefore I have an appointment of my own tomorrow with a lawyer that she does not know about. It's probably worth the consultation fee. I will then be prepared for whatever happens next.

So what happened to "affair is over so please don't ask me about that - just trust me"?

Don't even consider something like "amicable divorce". Intolerable that she would bring your kids around OM's family and lie to you about it. I'm sorry for you, I know how that feels.

I don't think you should "consult" with her about her plans for ending your marriage. If she wants to end it, it's her work and not yours. I don't think you should talk to her about divorce or separation. If she's really going to do it, she's going to do it. Don't help her make that decision. I have often been told: "when WW wants to talk divorce, you tell her that you will only talk about building a loving marriage but she must first end her affair".

Pete,

I'm curious to know what you've done so far.

You've said you have done exposure to a T, EPs, no contact letters, snoop, etc.

But what is happening suggests that these things haven't been done or half-measures. You give one word responses, no details, and then say things like "no contact, trust me" - only to come back and ignore that, saying it is still on.

So what is happening here?

I do not think you are being truthful with posters and they can't help you if they don't know what you are actually doing.

Venting will NOT save this marriage nor will it protect your interests if divorce happens.

You were right to call me out on that. I was in total denial.

What's happening here was that I was in denial about the fact that the affair might be continuing, and I understand that gets me nowhere on this site.

Not contact letter - sent but she didn't honor it
EP - agreed to by her but she wont honor it
Exposure - yes, to several friends and family that have been reaching out to her but she does not listen or twists their positive advice into what makes her happy.

She's still in the house with me, no talk since last weekend of her leaving. I told her I would not stand for her taking my kids to OM's mom's house, so maybe she is backing down on that plan. I told her yesterday that I would not assist is an amicable divorce and she said "that's what I needed to hear."

The OM's (soon to be) ex-wife is a loose cannon but may be my last hope. I've got to break up the affair somehow. Although she hates my wife for what she did, she may be willing to see my desire to save the marriage.

I think the motivation for OM's wife is not going to come from a desire to help you but a desire to hurt him or at least hold him accountable. I think she could really help though, especially with furthering exposure and pressure on his side.

Also as others have advised, I wouldn't trust a word your wife says right now. She's already broken the most important promise in her life, everything else is chump change while she's in the fog. People become highly irresponsible and self centered in the fog, they are capable of any treachery.

It appears our situations may be similar and you found out about the same time, how is your situation progressing?

The problem with OM's wife is that she is divorcing OM and I doubt they have much contact right now, but she may may have knowledge of OM's weak points I can attack.

You never know who will say what. OMs wife will know him better than any other person on the planet, including your wife. If she wants him to be uncomfortable, she will have the best recipe.

Veterans can give you better advice on how to approach this, but at minimum you need to make sure she's aware of everything about the affair you are aware of. You may even get important information from her when you compare notes. I'd also make sure she understands you are still trying to recover your marriage, though you are correct that she may not care to get involved. I would try anyways.

NEVER, EVER trust a wayward in the FOG. I hope you learned that important lesson.
Your wife is fogged out and will lie, cheat and steal to get her fix of the other man. It is very common for a wayward to promise no contact, go to counseling, etc as a stall tactic to get you off their back(it just happened to you).
Did you do a full exposure(how deep and far) did you tell the kids in an appropriate age way, have you used cheaterville?

I would leverage the OMW, at this point you have nothing to loose. As stated, she will know best his weaknesses.

Peter,

You need to focus. Right now you are going through hell, but you need to dig deep, and realize, that you are fighting for your family. Your WW is not herself right now. You need to understand that anything she tells you, is probably just to calm you down and shut you up.

The reason your wife is going to the OM�s Moms place, is because in the background, your wife and other man, are trying to figure out how they can be together. When you first posted on here, you mentioned that your wife wants to save the marriage. The problem is, the affair is still active, and when she tries to withdraw, it is too hard, and she jumps right back in.

Until the affair is exposed far and wide, and not just to selected targets, it will still thrive. You need to create havoc in the affair, all the while being the best husband and father you can be. When your wife is upset at what you have done, you calmly tell her that you are fighting for your marriage and family.

You really need to go at the OM, by exposing to all his friends and family, and his work. The OM�s BW can help you do this. She is hurt, and will be willing to help you.

I can tell from what you have posted previously, that you really love your family, and you don�t want to lose them. You need to understand, that your best chance at recovering this marriage, is to follow the advice of the veteran�s on this board. You need to take them very seriously when they tell you things that might not make sense to you at the time. They have seen thousands of cases like yours, and the pretty much know how it will play out. They know the things that will work.

Trying to focus. She won't stop the affair and now has a meeting with a lawyer Monday. There is one more wild card when it comes to exposure - her 92 year old grandmother who she trusts more than anyone (and is not in very good health). I did talk to the grandmother, and she only had very vague info on what happened (actually insinuated that I was having an affair!). So obviously WW gave her wrong info. At the time, I did not feel it was my place to tell grandma what really happened.

Question - is it nothing but an atom bomb if I tell grandma and try to enlist her help? Grandma may actually take her side, who knows. WW would absolutely go bonkers but again, NOTHING TO LOSE AT THIS POINT. Only fear is that WW gets so upset about me gelling grandma that she gets nasty in divorce proceedings.

I kept my XH's affairs secret from my mother for a long time because of her age. I deeply regret having done so, she was a tiger for me once she knew (in the end she guessed). People of that age have great wisdom, use it.


Everyone gets nasty in divorce proceedings. There is no such thing as a 'nice divorce'. Does not exist so no need for you to worry about that.

So, maybe you already explained this earlier, but does the OM work? Does he have any hobbies? Does he have any friends? It may be out of your comfort zone, but you need to make him feel the heat a little more. At this point, it doesn't matter if your wife gets upset about exposure. If you are unsuccessfull at causing conflict in their precious little fantasy affair world, then you will lose everything.

Tell the Grandma, and everyone else in your life. It was joked about in another thread, about hiring some kids or transients to show up by the OM's house carrying signs that say So and So is an adulterer, and is trying to destroy my family. Point is, it is time that he feels some discomfort for his actions.

It sound like the Grandma is an important person to her.

This is why Dr. Harley says to expose to key family members and to do it upfront and all in one sitting. Since you didn't expose to her and now your WW has spun her story.

Told Grandma. She is obviously devastated. She said she would not confront WW until we talked again, but I think the only way to get through to WW is that WW knows I told Grandma and Grandma has all the details.

I also have the phone number of the OM's mother, where my wife has been going, even with the kids at times. I'm guessing no one is off limits to exposure? Keep in mind OM's mother is a huge advocate of her son and will back him over anyone else.

Did you ask Grandma to talk to your WW and ask her to stop her affair? You need people to put pressure on her to stop her affair.

OM's mother and father should've been one of the first people you expose to.

Whom on OM's side have you exposed to?

No one as I don't know them. And they'd back up his behavior anyway. OM's mother has been harboring my wife at her house, so she obviously knows something. My message would be "please make the ethical choice and stop condoning this behavior."

This is what you say.


Have you not read the Exposure thread?
Exposure 101

Some really positive things over the weekend. She cancelled her lawyer meeting today, said she wants to go back to therapy with me, sent another no contact letter, wanted back in the same bed which is how we're now sleeping, making plans for the future, and says she is taking EPs to avoid OM. It seems exposing to those closest to her may have worked.

While I cannot argue with this, the sudden change of heart is surprising. It just feels SO GOOD after feeling SO BAD for 2 months. Working hard on meeting the EMs and hoping for no relapse!

Did you personally speak to the OM's mother and tell her the full truth?

She already knows the whole truth and is 100% backing her son. She wants my kids as her new grandkids. Sickening.

She told you this herself?

Be wary of therapy!
Many a wayward have used that as the last excuse. in other words, "i tried, i even went to therapy, it just isnt going to work" or false recovery to get the betrayed off their back.


For the immediate term be skeptical.

PF,

Seriously consider working with Dr Harley's daughter, Jennifer Chalmers as a coach over seeing a therapist together.

Pete,
I just read your thread while looking for something else on the site. I was married to a serial cheater until almost 7 years ago, so I understand the self-doubt you are experiencing.

My question to you is, "Do you want to stay married?"

If not, do whatever you feel like. If you DO want to stay married, then stop all the other crap you have been doing and make a plan. Get input from the vets here on your plan. Then EXECUTE.YOUR.PLAN.

Your plan can save your marriage, and more importantly allow you to get control of yourself and your situation. It seems to me that you are out of control and flailing about. Stop it.

So, do you want to stay married?

Yes. The emotions are starting to calm down and I am able to focus.

OK, good. This is going to need to be YOUR plan, because YOU are the only one you can actually control. A good first step is getting educated on your situation so you can rely on your training when things get tough, and you can be the lighthouse in the fog.

So Pete's Plan:
1) Read Everything in this thread : http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695379#Post2695379
2) If you can afford it, buy the book "Surviving an Affair" (SAA). Most of the information in the book is on this website, but the organization found in the book makes it handy for reference.
3) Do not engage in any "relationship" talk with your wayward wife (WW) until you have read all of this and put together your plan. Be pleasant, be polite, but do not engage. Right now, she is engaged in a plan to make you look bad to her so she can justify to herself why it is ok to do this to you. Do not give her any ammunition.

4) ...post your progress on educating yourself and we will move on from there.