My husband and I are recovery after an affair. I'm the wayward spouse.
We are reading through the site here and we started planning our time for undivided attention. Based on the fact that we have a less than healthy marriage we decided to spend more than 15 hours a week. We agreed on 30 hours a week.
My husband smokes weed recreationally. He only smokes at night after the baby is asleep (no other time) and is not allowed around the baby when he is high.
I requested that he not be high during our undivided attention time as he is not all there. He took this as me being retaliatory against him and refused.
I'd like some advice. Is being high during the period of undivided attention appropriate? Am I unreasonable in my request? Is there a compromise?
My husband and I are recovery after an affair. I'm the wayward spouse.
We are reading through the site here and we started planning our time for undivided attention. Based on the fact that we have a less than healthy marriage we decided to spend more than 15 hours a week. We agreed on 30 hours a week.
My husband smokes weed recreationally. He only smokes at night after the baby is asleep (no other time) and is not allowed around the baby when he is high.
I requested that he not be high during our undivided attention time as he is not all there. He took this as me being retaliatory against him and refused.
I'd like some advice. Is being high during the period of undivided attention appropriate? Am I unreasonable in my request? Is there a compromise?
If you want him to stop smoking weed you make the request he should stop.
Please tell us what you've done on the list below.
Also, who is your OM? Was he married? Was your affair exposed and to whom was it exposed to?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
Brightside, the policy of joint agreement means that neither of you do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of the other. Smoking dope does not have your enthusiastic agreement. Is he a dope addict? How often does he smoke dope?
I don't have problems with him smoking weed in general. We discussed the boundaries of it when he started.
My OM was someone online that I met. He wasn't married and my husband found out through emails.
We have done everything on the checklist.
I guess I misunderstood the policy of undivided attention.
Is he a dope addict? How often does he smoke dope?
Probably and every night.
He uses it more to cope with the affair since he started smoking after finding out.
But he is from the netherlands and grew up with a more lax attitude toward drugs.
I guess I misunderstood the policy of undivided attention.
Can you be more specific?
Is he a dope addict? How often does he smoke dope?
Probably and every night.
He uses it more to cope with the affair since he started smoking after finding out.
That is the reason that addicts get stoned/drunk. They use it to escape from life. It sounds like he has a serious addiction. There is a big difference between drugs and alcohol in that weed is mind altering and booze is mood altering. In other words, alcohol can merely be relaxing, whereas smoking dope gets him high enough to check out.
If I were you, I would be greatly concerned that he has an addiction. It sure sounds like he does.
Addictions are devastating to marriage because they always come before marriage. Anything that comes before the marriage will come between you. The fact that he refuses to give it up for your dates indicates that a) he has an addiction and b) he puts it before your marriage.
He went to the doctor this week for depression and is going to see individual therapy on Tuesday. On top of our marriage counseling sessions.
ok just read your post thanks!
The discovery of my affair came out in Nov 2014. Since then we have been following marriage builders and going to therapy. We were improving and rebuilding our relationship. So much was improving in our love and communication for each other.
The problem is my husband as informed me that he has pretended to be me online and contacted the other man. He has done this in the past and at the time we both agreed it was wrong. He agreed to never do it again.
However months later he contacted him again. The problem is he sees my disapproval of this as wanting to cover up the truth of the affair. He believes that by pretending to be me, he will get the real truth to what happened during our affair from the other man.
I don't see how this is good for the progress we have made. The other man has lied to my husband before about the nature of our relationship after it was discovered so I don't see why my husband thinks he will get the truth.
I want to sent a joint email from my husband and I to the other man saying that I have not being in contact with him that it was my husband and we want no further contact at all with him. But my husband doesn't want to send that email. He wants to continue talking to my other man and to pretend to be me. It hurts to know that the other man thinks I am continuing the affair. Even after I told the other man that it was all over.
I have not and will not have any contact or interaction with the other man. I believe that is a huge part in rebuilding our relationship but it feels like my husband is continuing the affair where I left off.
I am really confused, hurt and don't know how to proceed.
How is your BH contacting the OM?
Have you answered ALL your BH's questions about the affair? Why does your BH think he doesn't have all the information about your affair?
Have you closed all contact with OM? Have you put EPs in place?
Brightside,
Have you offered to take a polygraph
Gamma
Brightside,
Have you offered to take a polygraph
Gamma
Make arraignments for the test. Then tell your BH when the appointment is.
Also tell your BH that you will not accept him breaking NC with the OM. Your counselor should support you in this and for him to stop being a drug addict.
My BH is using the skype chat (not the video).
We have spent hours going over every detail that I can remember. I have even written down parts of the affair with every detail I can think of.
The problem is I don't feel it is ever enough. He says he wants transcripts or recordings. That just isn't possible. No recordings exist. I don't remember word for word. I give him the general "I said he said" and we talked this and that.
He thinks that by talking to the OM he can get any records or logs from him.
I have no contact with the OM. My husband is the one maintaining contact.
I don't remember what EP is.
I'll suggest a polygraph and see what he says.
Have you been cagey with your husband in describing the affair? Many waywards make the mistake of glossing it over so the BS gets a very puzzling narrative that doesn't make sense. They think they are sparing the BS some pain, when in actuality, they are raising suspicion. What is your husbands main concern? Does he feel major parts are being withheld or glossed over?
Is your husband still getting high?
Please tell us what you've done on the list below.
Also, who is your OM? Was he married? Was your affair exposed and to whom was it exposed to?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
Could you answer this?
I cant thank you enough for addressing this Brightside. When I first started here, I am more quiet by nature, and when I had questions, rather than finding my voice (as I am now, a bit), I would wait, and read what others post, and when I would find someone who I agreed with, I would either do whatever they had posted, or ask to contact them directly, as it seemed, idk, less...painful to rehash i guess. Anyway, there was a post by someone a while back, and that member mentioned doing exactly that! That members motives were totally different than what I think your husbands seem to be, but the action was the same anyways. I actually talked to that person and asked if that followed the spirit of the program. The answer was that as part of the NC rule, the WS had to hand over the phone, the computer, etc., to the BS for their inspection. This was when the BS started communicating with the OP. While that was NOT for discovery purposes, it was for the purpose of knowing what the OP was doing, and to intentionally inflame the situation and attitude between the WS and the OP. I was shocked. They told me that if left to the WS that they werent confident that the NC would be done. I agreed, at first. Point is, I think there have to be some limits. Not written down ones, as intentions may be different. Your situation is just a bit more unique by the fact that you watch him doing it. You can understand Im sure why he thought it was a good idea at first, of course. However, if it is a few weeks later, and you have been honest (and as open as he has requested), then in the interest in total honesty, he should stop. All that will be accomplished is more undue paranoia (assuming you HAVE been honest), and probably an almost obsessive mania in him. You can not make progress this way. If you have to, to avoid breaking a NC agreement, cancel your email/skype account completely, as that is NOT a violation, and that should do it. Either that, or the idea of the joint message, is the only way you can truly heal. The member I mentioned before was the one who made me see that, as I was in that exact compulsive/manic state myself, and yerned to chat with the OP as my spouse. 3 weeks after I had spoken in private to the other MB member, I was contacted by him again, and he told me that while he did feel it was helpful, at first, his intent was only to hurt and cause pain to the OM, and had been successful, but didnt know when to stop. There was a backlash, and after some soul searching my MB mentor said, he looked in the mirror and knew he had taken it too far. To keep it from coming back on his family any further, he just let the accounts fade away. That wasnt what i wanted to hear, but I believe it to be the right thing.
Sorry all. Now you see why I am more the quiet type. Why I do get going, and care of what I speak, I tend to be like longfellow. Thank you again for bring up some of the odd and unpleasant realities, that occur when healing. Too bad it cant be as easy as a pen stroke, huh?
How did you have off board conversation with another board member?
Do you have another posting name?
I cant thank you enough for addressing this Brightside. When I first started here, I am more quiet by nature, and when I had questions, rather than finding my voice (as I am now, a bit), I would wait, and read what others post, and when I would find someone who I agreed with, I would either do whatever they had posted, or ask to contact them directly, as it seemed, idk, less...painful to rehash i guess. Anyway, there was a post by someone a while back, and that member mentioned doing exactly that! That members motives were totally different than what I think your husbands seem to be, but the action was the same anyways. I actually talked to that person and asked if that followed the spirit of the program. The answer was that as part of the NC rule, the WS had to hand over the phone, the computer, etc., to the BS for their inspection. This was when the BS started communicating with the OP. While that was NOT for discovery purposes, it was for the purpose of knowing what the OP was doing, and to intentionally inflame the situation and attitude between the WS and the OP. I was shocked. They told me that if left to the WS that they werent confident that the NC would be done. I agreed, at first. Point is, I think there have to be some limits. Not written down ones, as intentions may be different. Your situation is just a bit more unique by the fact that you watch him doing it. You can understand Im sure why he thought it was a good idea at first, of course. However, if it is a few weeks later, and you have been honest (and as open as he has requested), then in the interest in total honesty, he should stop. All that will be accomplished is more undue paranoia (assuming you HAVE been honest), and probably an almost obsessive mania in him. You can not make progress this way. If you have to, to avoid breaking a NC agreement, cancel your email/skype account completely, as that is NOT a violation, and that should do it. Either that, or the idea of the joint message, is the only way you can truly heal. The member I mentioned before was the one who made me see that, as I was in that exact compulsive/manic state myself, and yerned to chat with the OP as my spouse. 3 weeks after I had spoken in private to the other MB member, I was contacted by him again, and he told me that while he did feel it was helpful, at first, his intent was only to hurt and cause pain to the OM, and had been successful, but didnt know when to stop. There was a backlash, and after some soul searching my MB mentor said, he looked in the mirror and knew he had taken it too far. To keep it from coming back on his family any further, he just let the accounts fade away. That wasnt what i wanted to hear, but I believe it to be the right thing.
Sorry all. Now you see why I am more the quiet type. Why I do get going, and care of what I speak, I tend to be like longfellow. Thank you again for bring up some of the odd and unpleasant realities, that occur when healing. Too bad it cant be as easy as a pen stroke, huh?
How did you have off board conversation with another board member?
Do you have another posting name?
There was no off board conversation with another board member.
JBD's post is fabricated.
I have read ALMOST every thread here. The READ ONLY ARCHIVES are taking a long time however. There are 2 or 3 threads that I have seen (I admit, I have only been here a month, but am trying to learn before my own situation falls apart), but is it NOT ok for them to have posted their contact info? In fairness, it was only there till I contacted him. He edited the post after that. Wait, I was told, well, it was implied to me that that is ok, and not uncommon. Have I broken the rules? I will not say which threads the info is/was posted. And I would prefer not to get them in trouble. I am sorry. I had no clue that was an issue. I was just, embarrassed. Well, embarrassed, unsure, confused, angry, in over my head, etc.
I have read ALMOST every thread here. The READ ONLY ARCHIVES are taking a long time however. There are 2 or 3 threads that I have seen (I admit, I have only been here a month, but am trying to learn before my own situation falls apart), but is it NOT ok for them to have posted their contact info? In fairness, it was only there till I contacted him. He edited the post after that. Wait, I was told, well, it was implied to me that that is ok, and not uncommon. Have I broken the rules? I will not say which threads the info is/was posted. And I would prefer not to get them in trouble. I am sorry. I had no clue that was an issue. I was just, embarrassed. Well, embarrassed, unsure, confused, angry, in over my head, etc.
Then you've read enough to know that this forum does not tolerate trolls.
The most likely reason you are masking your IP address and using a proxy server is that you are either Brightside or Mr. Brightside.
If you were truly masking to be more private you would not be emailing some old member off the forum.
I have not been contacted by any old members to remove their email address from an old post. They would no longer have the ability to edit it themselves.
Sorry I have no idea who JBD is. I also don't fully understand the way this thread as gone.
But going back on topic. As I have answered before we went through the checklist and did all the steps. My husband has all my accounts. He has changed the passwords to some so I need to ask him to put in the password so I can get in. My computer and phone are keylogged and tracked. Every where I go my phone GPS verifies my location. Even this posting he is fully aware of.
I talked to my husband about taking a polygraph. Ultimately the conclusion was that it wouldn't help. I've told him the truth about the affair and I am not hiding anything. He believes me in that respect. He wants details and the a polygraph won't bring out details.
It was mention that I watched him do it. I didn't. I only found out after the fact. I sent an email when the affair was discovered saying things were over. My husband has since backtracked that in his latest communications with the OM.
My husband told me that I was obsessing about the NC thing. He said that me bringing it up, posting here (he knows everything I do) and wanting NC means that I am protecting the OM, that I still care for the OM and that I don't support my husband.
I told him he was completely wrong that NC was so our relationship could heal and move on. It makes no sense to me that wanting NC with the OM means I don't care about us. To me wanting contact with the OM means I don't care about our relationship. I told him that his reasoning as described above was total manipulation of the truth in order to justify his actions. He does not want NC.
He told me that I don't understand his need to know exactly word for word what was said.
Further I am the one who is not in a position to make demands. It is clear that I am a cheater so everything I say and do is untrustworthy. I get that but when I explain the situation either to you guys or the therapist and they side with me, it is seen by him as using them as tools to further my untrustworthy agenda.
As a result, I said if the OM ever established contact with me. I would expose my husband and re-establish the point of NC with the OM.
(The last point I'm conflicted. I don't want to break NC myself but if the OM is getting a different message from my husband. I want to make it known that it isn't me that is wanting to continue the affair and that I don't want contact. I have no idea how long my husband can keep up the charade but if he keeps it up I do feel obligated to stop the contact myself.)
All that will be accomplished is more undue paranoia (assuming you HAVE been honest), and probably an almost obsessive mania in him.
We have discussed this in therapy. The therapist talked to my husband about breaking the loop of the obsessive behavior and thought. We were making a lot of progress in his depression, his obsessing, etc. This contact and communication with the OM, I feel is a huge step backward.
Your husband needs to stop contacting your affair partner. His behavior is not helpful AT ALL. It keeps you both triggered.
Sounds like he won't listen to you or anyone else on this matter. Hopefully he's reading this. He's the troll, right?
And DO NOT contact your OM to explain this bizarre situation. NEVER have contact again. You certainly don't need to explain yourself to the scum bag who soiled your marriage. Who cares?
(are you looking for an excuse to make contact?)
(are you looking for an excuse to make contact?)
No not at all. I don't want contact and when my husband told me he talked to him, I felt myself have a physical reaction to the news.
I think that is a good point about the triggers. I said that I don't want this guy to be a part of our lives. He reply was you should of thought of that before you had the affair.
I said he will be a part of our history but not a part of our day to day lives. My husband has a fear I won't face the affair and that I won't help fix the problems that lead to it.
I don't know. I don't think so but he is reading cause I do show him the thread.
Since he is contacting your OM as you....he is most likely the troll here.
Mr. Brightside,
You need to stop. You are crossing lines of decency even though you are dealing with being betrayed.
Mr Brightside,
get a grip here. You are giving dutch people a bad name.
Doe effe normaal joh!
Either work it out with your wife and start having a good marriage, or file for divorce.
If you keep bringing the affair up and making your wife miserable this will end up in divorce anyway. Take your antidepressants and contact Dr. Harley. You cannot change the past, you don't have that power. But you have the power to make the future miserable, by keeping the affair on the front burner.
Start making the future better if you want to keep your family together. Paranoia about the past is not your friend. Make the present so good, that you and her forget about this, ehm, what was that again?
And being a pothead, will make you a boring (and stinking btw) husband with no drive to make your marriage exhillarating. You know that. Besides, have you ever considered how much legal trouble this can bring, when you are not residing in the Netherlands? Not worth it man.
Mr Brightside,
get a grip here. You are giving dutch people a bad name.
Doe effe normaal joh!
Either work it out with your wife and start having a good marriage, or file for divorce.
If you keep bringing the affair up and making your wife miserable this will end up in divorce anyway. Take your antidepressants and contact Dr. Harley. You cannot change the past, you don't have that power. But you have the power to make the future miserable, by keeping the affair on the front burner.
Start making the future better if you want to keep your family together. Paranoia about the past is not your friend. Make the present so good, that you and her forget about this, ehm, what was that again?
Where did you get your information? I'm the his husband in question and my wife, brightside, showed me this cause she was concerned.. Are you someone we know?
Mr Brightside,
get a grip here. You are giving dutch people a bad name.
Doe effe normaal joh!
Either work it out with your wife and start having a good marriage, or file for divorce.
If you keep bringing the affair up and making your wife miserable this will end up in divorce anyway. Take your antidepressants and contact Dr. Harley. You cannot change the past, you don't have that power. But you have the power to make the future miserable, by keeping the affair on the front burner.
Start making the future better if you want to keep your family together. Paranoia about the past is not your friend. Make the present so good, that you and her forget about this, ehm, what was that again?
Where did you get your information? I'm the his husband in question and my wife, brightside, showed me this cause she was concerned.. Are you someone we know?
Sir, can you please start your own thread for advice?
By using the methods prescribed by Dr. Harley and detailed in his book Surviving An Affair, you can build an affair proof, romantic marriage.
I'm not asking for advice. I'd like to know how happyheart obtained information that was never revealed...
What information?
We are trying to help your marriage here.
Do you want help to make your marriage better than it ever was and to put this affair in the past?
We totally understand that this thing has hurt you like nothing else. If you want, you can overcome the hurt and not only recover, but be blissfully happy. You have a little child, so I gather it is important for you to keep your family together. This place offers a lot of information to surviving an affair.
But you can only have the marriage you want, if you start to actually follow the program. Nobody can make that choice for you, but yourself.
Alright, maybe I read into it too much. Sorry about that.
I know what I did was wrong and counter productive, but as often is the case, the heart doesn't always agree with the mind. I guess my biggest fear is that the OM was my last chance for concrete evidence (my plan was to con him out of his Skype logs) that she didn't sleep with him. She has told me that she told him on Skype she was sorry she didn't have sex with him when they met. Without those Skype logs, all I have to go by is her word.
When I first started checking her email I was telling myself I was crazy. Until I found something. I know I can't change the past, and I really want to be able to forgive her, but it feels sometimes like I can't say I'm 100% sure what I'm forgiving her for. I want to believe her, but hard evidence would be so much easier to accept than just going by what she tells me happened.
And that's all.
.
I know what I did was wrong and counter productive, but as often is the case, the heart doesn't always agree with the mind. .
You don't have the luxury of thoughtlessness with your spouse's feelings. If you think thats OK then just file for divorce so as to protect your wife from your heart breaking blunders.
Constantly resuming her biggest mistake is done by you ON PURPOSE and is a deal breaker. Get your head in the game.
Mrs Brightside, I doubt Dr H would agree to counsel the two of you while there is an addiction. He always says to treat the addiction before trying to heal the marriage. It's just the same as how the ending of an affair comes before healing.
Healing the marriage includes a short period of truth gathering (perhaps using a poly) and then the affair is never mentioned again.
That isn't what your H wants because it puts focus on him.
Your husband is currently incapable of recovering the marriage. His pot smoking makes him unpredictable, paranoid and reactionary. He also puts it ahead of your dates - and marriage.
Your counsellor is a joke, because you are discussing the A over and over and the addiction isn't being tackled. This is a great way to stay in counselling for the rest of your lives.
You'd get much further if you implemented a separation until your H agreed to quit smoking and keep NC. Any future breaches of NC should see him kicked out again.
That's how serious you must be about NC with OM.
. I want to believe her, but hard evidence would be so much easier to accept than just going by what she tells me happened..
Nonsense, there is no evidence to be had from a liar's lips and you ignore real evidence gathering like a poly so you can chat to a lying OM.
All BSs want evidence but it is highly unusual to see a BH go out of his way to collude with a liar who destroyed his marriage. Most of us would get physically ill if we spoke to the OP.
It has nothing to do with evidence - it is just mischief making and keeping your wife's mistakes alive to detract attention from your own failings.
Mrs Brightside I am deeply concerned about your H using your affair as something kind of bargaining chip to hold onto his addiction. To the point of trolling this thread.
He may improve with rehabilitation, but I'd be doubtful if I were you.
Alright, maybe I read into it too much. Sorry about that.
I know what I did was wrong and counter productive, but as often is the case, the heart doesn't always agree with the mind. I guess my biggest fear is that the OM was my last chance for concrete evidence (my plan was to con him out of his Skype logs) that she didn't sleep with him. She has told me that she told him on Skype she was sorry she didn't have sex with him when they met. Without those Skype logs, all I have to go by is her word.
Another way to get this evidence is have her take a polygraph.
I know I can't change the past, and I really want to be able to forgive her, but it feels sometimes like I can't say I'm 100% sure what I'm forgiving her for. I want to believe her, but hard evidence would be so much easier to accept than just going by what she tells me happened.
I understand your dilemma now. I would not worry about forgiveness, but would focus on getting all the facts once and for all so you can move on. You won't forget [saying "IforgiveIforgiveIforgive" will not help you forget and is counterproductive] but the pain will fade into the past if you create a GREAT MARRIAGE in the present.
check this out:
Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?
Thanks guys.. I'm sorry some of you feel the need for animosity, but I guess we're here to deal with our problems, so the negatives take center stage.
Since the discovery we have made great strides in rekindling or relationship. We have had a lot of good days lately, and I do make a very concerted effort to not let the affair trump our daily lives. Dr Harleys blog has helped a lot with this. Though I wish we could deal with everything in one go, we still have to deal with our day to day lives, work and the baby. Sometimes it feels like we take too much time off of talking about our problems though, and that's when I get stupid stuff in my head like contacting the OM.
I am absolutely aware of my part in the deterioration of our relationship before the affair, and I own up to the mistakes I have made after. I have tried to change everything about myself that made her feel she needed that escape.
I'm still dealing with this every day, and even in therapy a lot of the focus is on what I need to do. It can be very frustrating, especially since I feel like I try so much.
If there are any specific questions about our relationship, about my wife or myself, please feel free to ask and we'll try to answer as best we can, but please stop making assumptions.
Malfurion,
You need to start your own topic thread please.
Both of you need individual threads to get your specific advice.
LTL